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Putin Accuses Wagner Mercenary Leaders Of "Armed Uprising"; Wagner Chief Claims To Have Seized Control Of Key Military Facilities In Two Russian Cities; White House Closely Watching Power Struggle In Russia. Aired 12-1p ET

Aired June 24, 2023 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[12:00:26]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN "BREAKING NEWS".

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield in Atlanta for our special "BREAKING NEWS" coverage of the crisis in Russia.

Also joining us is CNN Christiane Amanpour in London. Christiane, I'll join you in a moment.

We begin today with a stunning development in the Russian war on Ukraine. And perhaps, the biggest threat to President Vladimir Putin's iron fisted control over Russia in decades.

Putin is accusing the head of the mercenary Wagner Group of an armed rebellion. The group's leader, Yevgeny Prigozhin has been a longtime ally of the Kremlin, which relied on his soldiers for its war on Ukraine.

But yesterday, he accused Russia of attacking his mercenaries and Prigozhin, now says his private army has seized control of Russian military facilities in two critical cities.

The first is in the city of Rostov-on-Don. That's about 700 miles south of Moscow.

And the second city is Voronezh, at about the halfway point on the road to Moscow.

And he is threatening to push on to the Capitol if Russia's top general and defense minister don't meet with him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

YEVGENY PRIGOZHIN, CHIEF, WAGNER GROUP (through translator): Again, we came here. We want to receive the Chief of General Staff and Shoigu. And so, they aren't here. And so, they aren't here, we will be located here, blockading the city of Rostov, and we'll go to Moscow.

(END VIDEO CLIP) WHITFIELD: President Putin calls the actions by Prigozhin, a betrayal and a stab in the back to the Russian people.

In an ominous sign, a Russian armored vehicles began appearing on Moscow streets last night.

Putin is warning those who follow Prigozhin, that they will pay the price.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VLADIMIR PUTIN, PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA (through translator): All those who deliberately chose the path of treachery, who prepared an armed mutiny, who chose the path of blackmail and terrorist methods will face inevitable punishment, and will answer both to the law and to our people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Earlier, U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken, called G7 allies to discuss the situation, and are watching the situation very closely, while President Biden has been briefed on all of it as well.

But Sources tell CNN, the White House was caught off guard by the speed with which this crisis has unfolded. Christiane.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Fredricka, thank you. And of course, we've got full coverage of this breaking news story today. We have CNN's chief international security correspondent Nick Paton Walsh, national security reporter Natasha Bertrand, chief national security correspondent and anchor Jim Sciutto, and CNN military analyst and former NATO supreme allied commander, General Wesley Clark.

So, Nick, let me -- let me begin with you because you've done a lot of reporting on Wagner, and you've been in that sort of area.

We know about, you know, Wagner, we know that it's managed to be pretty much the only sort of results-based group in this misconceived invasion against Ukraine.

What do you think is at the heart of this current challenge by Prigozhin to Putin, even though he's not actually calling on Putin's ouster?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: It's interesting, actually, that's a question I don't have a ready answer to, Christiane.

I think it's probably fair to say that there is a degree of frustration or fatalism amongst the ranks of Wagner. Seeing themselves thrown into battles where they lose many mans, many of them convicts, indeed, thrown towards the front line often complain about lack of ammunition, and have now over the past day say they found themselves on the receiving end of an angry Russian top brass, who both mismanaged the war, but are now taking vengeance on Prigozhin for speaking out in the way that he did about the causes and the rationale behind the war on Friday.

There may be some personal ambition of Yevgeny Prigozhin in this. Remember, this is a man very close to Putin for many years, uses, frankly, as his bag man in many parts of the world, where Russia could deny connection to the activities of the Wagner Group.

So, I think we're looking at a turning point in the war here, certainly. And the ultimate question, Christiane is what level of support can Putin hope to get from the Russian military itself?

Now, remember, there are frail inside of Russia. They've had a ragtag Russian citizen militia, attack Russia's border areas from Ukraine over the past months, and often that militia has found minimal Russian defenses, able to protect that territory.

And so, now, we have one of the better trained, more battle seasoned parts of the Russian military, pushing their way north from Rostov-on- Don, a Russian southern military hub.

[12:05:06]

Inconceivable, frankly, you must think that CENTCOM would lose control of someone like Tampa, Florida, where they're based out. So, that's what we're looking at here.

And then reports continually of their push through Voronezh up north, and now, indeed Lipetsk, the next region they're moving on to apparently exits and entries to that particular town being blocked as well.

So, fear up that highway, the M-4 towards Moscow. On the outskirts of Moscow, military positions, it seems, to being put in place. And the mayor of Moscow, calling a counter terrorist regime in place that gives police extra powers and saying that Monday will be a non-work day.

They are clearly not thinking this is going to be over anytime soon. And I'm sure those in Putin's elite are wondering how on earth, he took himself from a nation that in January last year, essentially had a military revered around the world, and are now seeing themselves crumble not only on the frontlines in Ukraine, but internally as well.

This may argue, possibly began as a grudge against the Russian top brass. It's very clearly now either Prigozhin or Putin who will prevail.

AMANPOUR: Natasha, we know that Prigozhin is not calling for an end to the war. In fact, he wants a much more, you know, substantial mobilization, an all-out war.

What do we hear from the White House in the state -- in the state -- well, how is the administration analyzing this challenge right now?

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, I think this kind of power struggle between Wagner and the Russian military is something that they have been watching very closely over the last several months, including as recently as this year, when they saw that Prigozhin was obviously very directly challenging the Russian defense minister and calling him out and saying that not only is the Russian Ministry of Defense, essentially leaving Russian troops and Wagner troops to die in Ukraine without sufficient ammunition, without sufficient equipment, but also that they are not functioning as a proper kind of military inside Ukraine, doing this military operation in a way that Prigozhin anyway, thought it should be carried out.

He thought that they were so inept and incompetent that Wagner really had to fill that void. And as we saw, that is exactly what they were doing inside Ukraine.

So, Western officials now are very closely monitoring how this impacts Ukraine, of course, because as Wagner troops have moved into Russia, they are distracted in Russia, how will that impact?

Of course, Ukraine -- the resistance that the Ukrainians are facing inside Ukraine, and will they be able to make some kind of breakthrough there?

But look, we are hearing that officials across the administration were fairly caught off guard by this development, because while, of course, Prigozhin and the Russian ministry of defense were feuding for months, and very much in the open as well.

It was unclear to U.S. officials, when this would actually -- this tipping point would actually happen, and how far Prigozhin would actually be willing to go in terms of challenging the Russian military.

Obviously, yesterday, we saw that he said that the Russian military ordered an airstrike on his troops inside Ukraine. And that appeared to be, in his mind, anyway, the final straw here.

And that is when he decided to send his troops into Rostov and challenge the Russian military and Russian ministry of defense there directly.

So, now officials are waiting to see how far Wagner can actually get because they are watching within the next 24 to 48 hours if they are going to face supply shortages, and how that's going to impact -- how this all unfold.

But ultimately, they are concerned about the potential impact of this on Russia's stability. Because, of course, Russia is a nuclear state.

So, that is something that they're very concerned about right now. They don't want to see this deteriorate to the point where those assets and that those weapons could actually be put in danger and risk of destabilizing, not just Russia but the entire region. Christiane.

AMANPOUR: Natasha, thanks.

Jim Sciutto on the intelligence picture. We don't really know huge amount, except for what's coming from the Wagner Group, in their very sophisticated communications mechanisms. Apparently, we have some pictures of some military reinforcements around Russia. But does anybody know what Russia is doing? What Putin is doing, if anything, to actually build up defenses around Moscow itself?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, as often happens with Western intelligence these days, they are both watching closed source, but also open-source images to figure out exactly how far Prigozhin's forces will get, and what the degree of defenses that Russian military forces are able to put up in his way and the way of his forces.

I'm told that Western intelligence is focusing on one particular question, and that is how regular Russian army units respond to this.

And intelligence sources have cited to me instances where they've seen regular army units. If not, join Prigozhin forces, at least, stand by -- stand aside, and let them move forward.

[12:10:04]

And that's telling. Because if that becomes a pattern as opposed to an exception, then that speaks to weakness in terms of the ability of Russia to respond to this and to defend the capitol as those forces move north.

I'm also told that Wagner forces as they've been moving north towards Moscow have deliberately avoided urban centers, in part, to avoid coming into conflict with garrisons there.

In fact, doing end arounds, and then, able to proceed north. So, that's notable, and that is something that Western intelligence is watching very closely, while acknowledging the limitations of what they know at this stage.

I will say this is just bigger picture what has been highlighted to me that in recent weeks, we've seen weaknesses in the Russian military's response to a whole host of challenges.

We've seen drone attacks inside the country that including the possibility right up to the Kremlin, with the U.S. view that Ukraine may very well have been behind that drone attack to hit the Kremlin. That have questioned Russia's air defenses, not able to detect to defend against these things.

You've seen cross border attacks on the ground on the Russian side of the border that have question the solidity of Russia's border to prevent outside forces from coming in.

And now you have this internal military confrontation with Wagner forces, of course, not regular army, but they are Russian forces, now openly challenging Putin's leadership, and the Russian military.

That those are pretty remarkable weaknesses on top of, Christiane, you know, the weaknesses already shown of Russian military capabilities in Ukraine. And that presents a far different picture from just a year and a half ago, what the perception was of Russian military might and Putin's control of his own country.

AMANPOUR: And yet, of course, Jim, you know, everybody has hoped that something will snap and cause some kind of internal dissent against Putin.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

AMANPOUR: And to try to end the war like this.

I'm going to come back to you on that for a minute. But first, I want to ask General Clark, because of course, this happens, right as this counter offensive, is making fits and starts.

It's not as fabulous as everybody thought it would be. And I want to know what you think the Ukrainians should do, or could do now, to take advantage of what may be, you know, a very serious challenge to the Russian military and to the Russian president.

GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, the Ukrainians are certainly watching this very closely. They're getting the intelligence feed from their sources. They've got sources, obviously, inside Russia, they're -- they have some idea of what's going on. They're also talking to us in Western sources. They've got to move forward. But they've got to do it at their own deliberate pace, Christiane.

I mean, this is -- whatever happens on the highway to Moscow is not going to remove the minefields in front of the Malidipol (PH).

And so, they've got to move through that area. With all due diligence, they've got to be careful, they've got to win the counter fire fight against the Russian artillery. They've got to blunt the Russian ground attacks on them, find ways through the minefields, but they are making progress. It is slow, it is painstaking, there will be losses.

And obviously, what we'd hope is a wholesale collapse of the Russian military there as a result. And then, the minefields wouldn't be protected and the artillery wouldn't be manned, and there wouldn't be any counter attacks.

You still have to go through the minefield. So, it's still going to be tough.

AMANPOUR: General Clark, you know, there is one thing in terms of a collapse in the minefields. And there's another in terms of Russia has -- and everybody saying this, had all these months as they wait for this counter offensive to dig in. Their defense is a very, very strong. We've seen the Ukrainians come across that over the last couple of weeks.

So, from a command-and-control perspective, and you've been in this position before, what happens when the troops that are arrayed in the field in Ukraine hear that their leader is being challenged?

What does that do to the solidity of the defenses and the willingness to fight? CLARK: Well, it should soften, their willingness to fight. There should be some breakdowns. But Christiane, this is the key point. I mean, Prigozhin has to get control all the means of communication. It's not clear that he has that.

Normally, that would be done by television. What we're hearing from Prigozhin on Instagram, now, maybe the Russian troops are getting it, but, you know, the Russians have confiscated the mobile phones of the Russian troops when they go forward because they were using these phones that Ukrainians were direction binding and calling in artillery on them.

So, a lot of the Russian troops probably don't know any of this is happening.

So, that's why the next 24 and 48 hours are critical. If Prigozhin can get control of communications and really spread the word here, he may well demoralize the Russian forces fighting in the field.

Otherwise, these men won't know what's happening, and they'll just move forward until their commanders lose heart.

[12:15:03]

AMANPOUR: Of course, that's assuming that's Prigozhin's aim. As I say, he keeps saying that actually, the elite, and he blames the Russian defense minister, the head of the military command for not being bold enough.

It seems like he wants to try to get the Russians to wage this war much, much more toughly.

Let me just ask you, Jim Sciutto, before we go to a break. I mean, the bottom line is that Prigozhin doesn't actually have that many people compared to what Putin has.

SCIUTTO: That's right.

AMANPOUR: You know, again, I guess, if Putin wanted to, he could stop it. Or are we at a sort of a Taliban point in August of 2021, when they saw the writing on the wall, the Afghan forces saw that they weren't going to get supported, neither by the NATO allies, nor by their own president, and they kind of melted away and the Taliban took over without much of a fight.

SCIUTTO: Yes. It's a great comparison, sort of a cascade effect. I mean, the best estimates Wagner forces, perhaps 25,000, certainly nothing to compare to the larger Russian military, at appears his hope is that some, as you say, some of those Russian forces peel away or at least don't stand in his way. And then he builds something, he builds momentum to get -- to get larger, to snowball, in effect, and that is a -- that's an uncertain outcome almost impossible to predict at this point.

But at least, we haven't seen enormous resistance to his movement. Certainly, as his force has moved into Rostov-on-Don, virtually, no resistance, it seems, perhaps, without firing a shot.

And since then, making steady progress up the highway there, of course, that could change as they get closer to Moscow.

The only other point I would make, Christiane, is that it's interesting, when U.S. intelligence has looked at Russia for the past several years, and assessed where the greatest threat to Putin's leadership is, they've often told me that it's far less likely to come from progressive dissidents, or even the Russian public than it is to come from his right wing.

That, that, that, that was the greater threat to his leadership. And Wagner certainly falls into that category. And I think is as folks are digesting this, and we all are, and just in the span of a quite tumultuous 24 hours, that the potential outcomes here include ones that perhaps might even be worse than Putin, if one could imagine -- if one could imagine, you know, Prigozhin is certainly no, no grand reformer.

AMANPOUR: Oh, I mean, not in the least.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

AMANPOUR: I mean, they are described as, as, as a -- as a clique of thugs, and they are fighting it out as we see right now. Look, Nick, Natasha, Jim, thank you so much. And General Clark, we'll be back with you all.

And coming up, the White House says that it's closely watching the power struggle in Russia. We're following all the developments. Our special coverage continues after a quick break.

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[12:21:55]

AMANPOUR: And we're continuing to follow "BREAKING NEWS" out of Russia, a rapidly escalating situation on the ground there right now.

New video just in to CNN, shows a destroyed checkpoint in the Voronezh region. It comes as the mercenary Wagner Group launches what's been described by some Russian military officials as a coup. Although, the leader of Wagner claims that it's not.

But it also claims to have taken control of key military facilities in two Russian cities. Wagner has been instrumental in Russia's fight in Ukraine.

Now, the Russian President Vladimir Putin, calls these acts an armed mutiny. And he's warned that those responsible will be punished, and he's calling them traitors.

Security now is extremely tight in the capital city, which is preparing what the Kremlin is calling anti-terrorist measures. And the city's mayor has declared Monday a non-workday. So, for more, I want to bring in Nina Khrushcheva. She's a professor of International Affairs at The New School, as well as being the great granddaughter of the former Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev. And she is in Moscow now, which is crucial.

Nina, welcome back to our program. I just want to know, because we want to know what you are seeing, what you can hear, what you can see in terms of the atmosphere there. Anything to report to us.

NINA KHRUSHCHEVA, PROFESSOR OF INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS, THE NEW SCHOOL, NEW YORK: Well, in the morning, it was very sort of laid back. And, in fact, after the night news, the Prigozhin manifest -- Prigozhin declarations, I went to see, and I actually went to the Kremlin to see what's going on. Because the I -- the way I thought it would be, a lot of military vehicles, a lot of police, different kinds of police around Moscow, around the center.

It was, but it wasn't that much. It actually seemed very laid back. In fact, when Alexei Navalny demonstrations that you, Christiane, and I talk about in the past, the human rights activist and lawyer in his demonstrations to support him, that were much more militant and protective of the Kremlin.

This time, it seemed rather laid back, people were getting married, people were going into exhibits, and so on.

I think it's changing now. I haven't been outside in the last two hours. But there are less cars in the street, and people are much worried because in the morning wasn't still clear how far towards Moscow, Prigozhin troops are going to make it.

And now, they're in the Lipetsk region, which is rather close to Moscow. The preparation is happening, and people in the morning didn't think that the coup was possible, that Putin will take care of it, as he has done for 23 years. But now, people are much more bracing for the coup.

AMANPOUR: So, Nina, tell us about the struggle. Obviously, Putin is the enabler of Prigozhin. And he's relied on him for whatever minimal successes they've had on the battlefield with a total mercenary force, including convicts that Putin personally has pardoned from jail to go to the front.

[12:24:58]

We've seen that Prigozhin has been a -- you know, verbally assaulting the hierarchy -- the military hierarchy from the day this war began. What is Prigozhin's aimed now, do you think?

KHRUSHCHEVA: Well, it is kind of a big question. Because he has been going on, particularly, in the last month, he has been saying that the military operation didn't work out the way it was supposed to.

And you know, the Ukrainians had five tanks at the beginning. And that, now, they have 500. And they didn't have training, and now have the greatest straining. It's the best army after the Wagner Group army in the world, and so on.

And so, the question for everybody, when he really started pushing it about a month ago, why was Putin silent? And, of course, it is that the remarkable feature of the today Kremlin is that it keeps saying that it's strong, but it's obviously incredibly weak.

It's just going, basically at the speed of the turtle towards whatever the goal of denitrification and demilitarization is.

And it seems to me that people who were originally behind with Putin, the, you know, sort of the great nationalist project of Russia, seem to be tired of waiting for that to happen.

And it is possible, they are the ones that are pushing now this -- a greater nationalism struggle that Prigozhin can represent. I think in your earlier guest, that's was a conversation, because it's basically now, the fight between state nationalism and Wagner, criminal, rapist, whatever they are, former prisoners, nationalist that they offering to Russia.

So, these are two very bad choices. And it is possible that Prigozhin thinks that he would be leader of this extra nationalism.

AMANPOUR: I want to dig down into that a moment. But first, we've just learned that Russia, apparently the Kremlin is offering amnesty for Prigozhin's mercenaries to lay down their arms.

Do you think that's going to work? And does that offer show a real fear from the Kremlin?

KHRUSHCHEVA: Well, I think they're trying all sorts, because they are the ones -- I mean, Putin could have done more militarization. He could have brought more people to the front, and he chose not to.

Remember that partial militarization -- mobilization that happened in last September. And then, because it was such a shock to the system that they tried to do it via volunteer fighters, people who are going to be contractors.

So, now they are trying to not to really bring Russia into the point of the bloodshed, because I think, Prigozhin is ready. Prigozhin and his -- and the forces of whoever is behind them, who fought behind him, if anybody is behind him, they are ready to actually have a revolution in order to nationalize Russia more.

So, it seems to be the Kremlin -- I mean, and I think in your earlier conversation, it was that if we can ever imagine that Putin would be modernizing force on this, it does seem that the state is now, because basically, the choices between stayed bad Putin nationalist, and then even worse -- even worse, worse version of it.

So, the coup as we are seeing now is coming from the right, is coming from those -- from those nationalist forces, which by the way, Putin or his people kept saying, well, you don't want me the West. Look what's going to happen after that, and it seems to be playing out ultimately now. AMANPOUR: Yes. I mean, that's all well and good, but they enabled it. They allowed him to do that. So, you know, as they say, as people like, (INAUDIBLE) has said, the exile over here Putin created a monster and it's coming back to bite them right now, if indeed it does.

Finally, I want to know what the Russian media is telling you all. What are you seeing on the air, on the airwaves?

KHRUSHCHEVA: Well, and that's actually just sort of a little bit about the revolutions. I mean, that's how it happens. You create the forces, and then, the forces eat you up. We know it from the French Revolution, we know it from the 1917 Bolshevik Revolution.

So, in fact, Putin is such a study of history, how could he not know that. The Russian media is kind of honest enough. I mean, they've been saying, for example, I know that the Wagner troops are marching through Lipetsk, not only because I'm reading it through the opposition, Telegram channels, but also because it is being reported in the Russian media.

AMANPOUR: Right.

KHRUSHCHEVA: So, some parts of Prigozhin declarations were not broadcast about the problems with operation. But his problems which I go with the ministry of defense, certainly, was broadcast.

So, it is more open, the struggle than anything that we saw before about the war on Ukraine.

AMANPOUR: Nina Khrushcheva for the moment, thank you very much, from Moscow, with that really vital perspective.

And we'll have much more of our continuing coverage on this rapidly escalating situation in Russia. Stay with us.

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[12:30:00]

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WHITFIELD: All right, back to this breaking news. We're told the White House is closely watching this developing power struggle in Russia today. Let's bring in CNN's Priscilla Alvarez live at the White House. So, what are you hearing is the plan?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, they're continuing to actively monitor this situation. But we are learning just moments ago that President Biden has also spoken with U.S. allies. According to a White House readout, he has spoken to the leaders of France, Germany, and the United Kingdom. And in this readout, the White House said, quote, the leaders discussed the situation in Russia. They also affirm their unwavering. Support for Ukraine.

Now, this is a trio that President Biden has been closely aligned with over the course of the war in Ukraine and has been in regular touch with them. Of course, all of this coming against the backdrop of regular briefings that President Biden is receiving on the situation in Russia. We've also learned that President Biden was briefed by his national security adviser as well as the secretary of state Antony Blinken and Secretary of Defense Austin. So all of these discussions happening as this situation evolves on the ground in Russia.

[12:35:20]

Now, we know that as early as January, American officials had been monitoring this power struggle with the mercenary Wagner group and the Russian government. And officials believe at the time that the tensions would mount and that is what we are seeing play out on the ground now. Now they are continuing to watch us and importantly, having continued conversations with allies and partners. Earlier this morning, Secretary of State Anthony Blinken also had a call with G7 allies and E.U. counterparts. So all of these conversations happening behind the scenes as they try to wrap their arms around this. The White House saying that president Biden and Vice President Harris will be briefed throughout the day. Fred?

WHITFIELD: All right, Priscilla Alvarez at the White House, thanks so much.

So as the drama unfolded in Russia, Friday, the Ukrainian defense ministry tweeted simply, we are watching. So what does this crisis in Moscow mean for the war in Ukraine? CNN is on the ground right after this quick break.

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[12:40:25]

AMANPOUR: We're continuing to monitor unfolding developments out of Russia, where the private military group, Wagner, has launched an apparent insurrection against President Vladimir Putin and the Russian government. Watching these developments closely, CNN international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson in London, and also Julia Ioffe, who's founding partner and Washington correspondent for Puck. She is Russian born, has a deep knowledge of Russia as well.

So let's just try to get this straight. It's an insurrection, says Putin, but Prigozhin has not named Putin, and he's been very careful to say that this is not a coup. So what do you think, Nick, Prigozhin's aim is? I keep asking people this question, and I'm just trying to figure out whether there is anything in the atmosphere that could tell us what he wants to achieve beyond his own advancement.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: And a lot of assessment is that he has wanted his own advancement. And that's what we've seen since he really came out in the public sphere in the fall of last year. In the context of what he's doing at the moment, he seems to have established himself in a place that it's going to be tough for the Russian military to shake him out of, because it's the headquarters or part of the headquarters of where the war in Ukraine is being fought out of. And it's also a very -- there's a lot of civilians in that environment. So it can be a difficult goal for Putin if he wants to go after Prigozhin, which he seems to, and take him down physically. So that's going to be hard. Prigozhin sent a small force, it seems, to go to Moscow. It's -- I think it's hard to imagine that this group of people that are driving to Moscow could really get through and do anything meaningful there, or find anyone meaningful to do something meaningful, too, meaning that this appears to be somewhat of a piece of theater for Prigozhin.

And he's been very good at this sort of theater. We've seen it in Ukraine around Bakhmut, you know, the multiple videos that he puts out, complaining that his troops, other troops, aren't getting the support from the Russian Defense Ministry that they need. He's been a master of the message. Has he really come out too soon when the greater system in Russia is not ready for a challenge to Putin because without naming Putin, yes, he's challenging that?

But Putin has not answered the question, and that is that Prigozhin has put out there, and that is that the war has been fought badly, shouldn't have been fought, was fought on a bad premise. So at the moment, it seems that Prigozhin has himself in a relatively safe place. But this could turn in on a dime. Even though the military, the Russian military, is a very blunt instrument, this could prove to be his alimo.

AMANPOUR: Julia, from everything you know, from being in Russia, you know, when you do go, from everything you, you know, you write about your personal experience. Do you think the -- how do you think the ordinary Russians, everyday Russians, will be interpreting this? Because, to be frank, you know, they haven't shown a great unwillingness to support this war in fact, the opposite. And I wonder whether you think this could be a turning point, even though Prigozhin himself is as unsavory a character as all the others at the top of this pyramid.

JULIA IOFFE, FOUNDER PARTNER AND WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, PUCK: Well, it's very hard to know. It's been hard to know from the very beginning of this war what the public sentiment inside Russia really is, in part because Putin has completely disemboweled any independent media. And it's hard in a situation of such fear and fear of repression, to ask anybody what they really think. And so it seems so far, or it seemed earlier in the war that there was a quarter of the Russian population that was kind of gung ho, die hard in favor of the war, a smaller percentage that was against it.

And everyone else in that squishy middle, they just wanted to be left alone and not to have the war intrude in their lives. Now we're seeing that the war has fully come home, and we're seeing panicked crowds trying to leave Rostov, swarming the train platforms. We're seeing that pretty much all airplane tickets out of Moscow are sold out. People don't want to be part of this.

But at the same time, we're also seeing video coming out of Russia of people giving food and water to the Wagner fighters as they enter these cities. They're not actually opposed to them, which makes me think that the Russians, you know, they're -- as long as there's no war at home, they're fine. But now that it's here, they'll either support the new guys or try to get out as soon as possible but again, it's so early in the game.

[12:45:14]

AMANPOUR: Yes, it's very early. And let's just be very clear. The war is between Russians. It's not a war that's coming to the Russians from outside. So Nic, you know, you've -- you -- we've been listening to the reactions mostly off-cam from top U.S. and other NATO and G7 leaders. They've been very careful not to say anything substantive about this, presumably not to give Putin any excuse to say, oh, this is, you know, this is the Western hand coming to do their nefarious business. How are you interpreting or what sources are telling you about how they're analyzing this situation now?

ROBERTSON: I think there's a high state of readiness for a possibility of a potential leadership change or a potential sudden shift of gears and shift of direction in Russia. I think they have to be ready for that. And we've heard from Josep Borrell, the European Foreign Affairs Chief activating the European Union response crisis unit, which is a situation room for European leaders or security chiefs to at least have ongoing conversations.

And I think that's mirrored in these conversations we're having between G7 and E.U. leaders widely. So I think, in a way, it's theirs to lose. But let's be crystal clear about this as they have been. Ukraine's allies will be supplying them with very good intelligence, the best they can of what Russian forces are doing on the ground. Because any chain and lack of resolve along the front line is going to be an opportunity for the Ukrainians and their allies are going to want them to be able to exploit that ASAP.

AMANPOUR: And obviously, the Western allies do realize that this is a very serious development and probably shows that the internal dynamic around the Kremlin is a lot more fragile than they expected. Nic and Julia, thank you very much indeed. We're back in a moment. Stay with us as we continue this coverage.

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[12:51:43]

WHITFIELD: We're following breaking news out of Russia, where private military group, Wagner, has launched an apparent insurrection against President Vladimir Putin and the Russian government. But Wagner head, Yevgeny Prigozhin, now has -- known rather as Putin's chief, has a long history with Russia's president, rising to prominence by winning lucrative contracts with the Kremlin. So who is he? CNN senior international correspondent Fred Pleitgen, is joining me right now from Berlin. So Fred, tell us more about him.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL: Yes, Fredricka, first of all, you're absolutely right. He is someone who's extremely important to Vladimir Putin, and he certainly has had a meteoric rise thanks to Vladimir Putin, but also because he's very important for Vladimir Putin. Here's what we know about Yevgeny Prigozhin.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PLEITGEN (voice-over): He's long been a well-known mercenary leader around the world. Now Yevgeny Prigozhin is a wanted man in Russia as well. His often merciless group of fighters is now pitted against the Russian military leadership. And Prigozhin is suddenly Moscow's public enemy number one. Vladimir Putin calling for Prigozhin's group to lay down their arms.

VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): All those who deliberately chose the path of treachery, who prepared an armed mutiny, who chose the path of blackmail and terrorist methods, will face inevitable punishment and will answer both to the law and to our people.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): He may now be something of a nemesis to Vladimir Putin, but it was his decades long relationship with the Russian president that allowed Prigozhin to establish his own militia, the Wagner group.

Wagner served as a private army, doing controversial jobs that often not even Russia's military could do. Prigozhin, a former prisoner himself and self-styled hard man from St. Petersburg, used Wagner to operate around the world. CNN has tracked Wagner mercenaries to the Central African Republic, Sudan, Libya, Mozambique, Ukraine and to Syria. Along the way, Prigozhin enriched himself. Rights groups have accused Wagner of horrific violence, like this of Wagner fighters allegedly smashing the feet and hands of a Syrian prisoner with a sledgehammer in 2017.

The man reportedly died after his ordeal. The images are incredibly disturbing like so many others attributed to his group. For many years, Prigozhin denied the existence of Wagner, its work best done in secret. A master of mythmaking, it was Prigozhin and Wagner who set up the notorious Russian troll farm used to spread disinformation around the 2016 U.S. presidential election.

But when his fighters took to the battlefield in eastern Ukraine and began winning battles, Prigozhin seemed to want the spotlight.

YEVGENY PRIGOZHIN, WAGNER FOUNDER (through translator): The Bakhmut operation began on October 8th, 2022, in order to give the battered Russian army an opportunity to recover. Our guys stormed this city for 224 days. There were only Wagner private forces here.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): His tactics included flinging poorly armed and poorly trained troops into the so called meat grinder of war in Ukraine's east. Suffering a shocking number of casualties in an attempt to overwhelm defenses, Prigozhin rub his victories in the face of Russia's flailing Defense Department, venting his fury at the half hazardous and ill planning of Russia illegal invasion, and chastising the Russian top brass mocking Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu.

[12:55:20] PRIGOZHIN (through translator): You think you are the masters of this life? You think you can dispose of their lives? You think because you have warehouses full of ammunition that you have that right?

PLEITGEN (voice-over): Now the Kremlin's secret weapon may be its biggest threat.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PLEITGEN: And that biggest threat seems to be defying Vladimir Putin right now. And also, as we know, the convoy of the Wagner forces apparently heading for Moscow, as they say, going after the defense minister and the chief of staff as well. Fredricka?

WHITFIELD: All right, Fred Pleitgen, in Berlin, thank you so much for that.

All right, straight ahead, we'll have so much more of our special coverage. Russia's President Putin is vowing to punish anyone backing the head of the Wagner group after they launch this apparent insurrection. Stay with us.

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