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Putin's Power In Question After Armed Revolt; The Bloody Rise Of Russia's Revolt Leader; Canada Opens Probe Into Titanic Sub's Implosion; Fate Of Wagner Group Uncertain After Uprising. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired June 25, 2023 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[22:00:52]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: A good Sunday evening to you. I'm Jim Sciutto, And this is CNN Special, live coverage of the extraordinary events this weekend out of Russia. Moscow's Red Square blocked off again today After the brief but stunning insurrection. It's gripped the world could perhaps weaken Vladimir Putin's grip on his country. We should know, it's far too soon to know. So much, we don't know about what led Wagner Mercenary Group Leader Yevgeny Prigozhin to launch a march on Moscow and what convinced him to abruptly call it off.

And then it said, go into exile. U.S. Secretary of State Tony Blinken today called the whole series of events, extraordinary, believes it indicates that cracks are emerging in Putin's rule. The very latest now from CNN, Sam Kiley, live from London. And Sam we're watching Russia closely Ukraine also events in Belarus, any developments to indicate to us what's actually happening right now?

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, I think the most stunning developments so far is an absence of any kind of news about the whereabouts of the of Yevgeny Prigozhin, the leader of the Wagner Mercenary Group, as you rightly point out there he was, in command oval no not present in necessarily a column of military, his military that got within 200 kilometers 125 miles of Moscow.

And then suddenly there was this intervention from Lukashenko from Belarus. And we saw pictures of -- of the Mercenary Leader leaving Rostov-on-Don, and ostensibly for exile and safety critically in neighboring Belarus, whilst his troops were, again as part of this deal, sent back or return themselves to their camps inside occupied Ukraine. But we haven't seen any evidence that he's turned up in Belarus.

My own speculation is he might choose to go somewhere a bit safer, a bit further away from the reach of Vladimir Putin's intelligence services to some of the places in Africa, Central African Republic, or Libya, where his mercenary group has a footprint. But the future of the mercenary group itself, of course, remains in question now, as in does -- as indeed does the coherence of the Russian military effort inside Ukraine, because what he said at the beginning of that coup attempt, as he said, it wasn't in a weird way, even though he was marching on Russia -- on the Russian capital, he said he was not committing a coup, but actually trying to rid the country of the military leadership. But he did say that Vladimir Putin's reasons for invading Ukraine, specifically, because of the threat posed by NATO, were invalid and that something is going to really struggle to recover from Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yeah, that is a genie you can't put back into the bottle. Question about Vladimir Putin. He was public in the midst of this making a national address in which he accused Prigozhin of treason has been largely invisible sense. Do we have any idea where he is?

KILEY: Well, that's the other guy in this drama who's absent from the stage none other than Vladimir Putin. you rightly point out there, he was not only present, but he went on air on television, accusing Prigozhin and his men of treason and treachery, and saying that they would face the full force of the law.

Now, there has been this deal and we think ostensibly negotiated by the Belarus and President that gets them off that hook. But we haven't heard from Vladimir Putin since he made those allegations because that leaves him in terms of public perception in Russia, I think, potentially very weakened. Jim.

SCIUTTO: Sam Kiley, we know you're going to keep trying to answer these questions. So many these questions still unanswered.

Joining us now CNN Military Analysts, Major General James "Spider" Marks. Good to have you on sir.

MAJ. GEN. JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Thank you, Jim.

SCIUTTO: So, it was over quickly, but during that short time period, he was able, Prigozhin, to take Rostov-on-Don we is the key center for logistics command and control, supply to the -- to the -- to the war in Ukraine and travel all the way up to here, close to Moscow. How does he do that? And what does that mean about not just Putin's control over the country but the Russian military's control over the country that they barely seem to challenge him?

[22:05:15]

MARKS: Well, also bear -- bear in mind, Wagner had a very strong footprint right in here and elsewhere in the region, obviously. The borders right here. They were able to come across. Look, the Wagner Group had free movement in and out from Russia into Ukraine. They use this area, Rostov-on-Don as their logistics space as well. That's where the hub really was located. So for the movement of the Wagner Group to come across, I don't think that's particularly significant. What was significant is this significant movement up to this area, as you indicated, and then you call the thing off entirely. So there's much more at play here.

SCIUTTO: This bigger picture in the weeks preceding this, you had drone strikes on Moscow, and you had a number of attacks across the border by either Ukrainian special forces units or Russian units that disloyal to Putin's regime, what does that show you about the control of the country because it raises questions about control at the border, air defense systems a whole host of defense's?

MARKS: Well, what you're looking at is who controls the border? Does the military control the border? Or is there some of the Border Force do law enforcement does the FSB, does the GRU. How do those organizations communicate among each other to ensure there is some type of control?

Now, the Ukrainians have with great success, been able to attack at logistics sites across the border since the war has begun, and that has increased. And then as you indicated, we've seen some incursions that have come across. We're still not sure exactly where they were.

SCIUTTO: OK. One thing we know, and this hasn't changed is that in Ukraine is ongoing counter offensive against Russian forces in the East, in the South. Russia has multiple lines of defense. And those are dug in positions, and they're protected by minefields and a whole tank traps. You name it. Those didn't disappear overnight. But you do have questions about who's actually running the plays and the extent of his -- his power, is this an opportunity for Ukrainian forces? What -- what would they see weaknesses today that they wouldn't have seen two days ago?

MARKS: They might. Absolutely. But what the Ukrainians need to do is they need to stay focused. They need to fight the plan on the ground.

SCIUTTO: Interesting. Jim Clapper just said exactly that, stick to the plan.

MARKS: Absolutely. Don't -- don't do what Putin did, which was underestimate your enemy and overestimate your own capabilities and maybe an opportunity. So the Ukrainians need to stay extremely focused. This is like the hedgerows in Normandy after the landings.

SCIUTTO: You know, hedgerow by hedgerow.

MARKS: 50 yards by 50 yards, incredibly difficult to get through that. And the only way to get through it as a pop your head up and become a target. So this is not dissimilar from that. And so the Ukrainians got to be very aggressive with their intelligence collection and their maneuver.

SCIUTTO: They're claiming some success, although not massive success in the last 24 or 48 hours. OK, Belarus here, by the way, this is a story. So I'm, you know, playing it with a grain of thought that -- grain of salt. The idea is that Prigozhin is now up here, and some of his forces now up here in Belarus, what's the significance of that?

MARKS: I don't -- I -- my view is that Lukashenko got involved because Putin told him. Make this a safe haven temporarily. We still don't know where Prigozhin is located.

SCIUTTO: I mean, is that a safe haven, is Belarus and Belarus is basically run by Russia.

MARKS: It's a vassal state.

SCIUTTO: Yeah.

MARKS: Well, it's a vassal state of Russia. It's at least a temporary waystation, right? He could leave -- Prigozhin could depart and rejoin his Wagner forces elsewhere. They're in Yemen. They're in Syria, they are in Ukraine, so.

SCIUTTO: Africa.

MARKS: They are in Ukraine. I don't know how that's going to work. When you've got the military force, which is the Russian military force, which is clearly demonstrated its incompetence.

SCIUTTO: Yeah.

MARKS: How will the Wagner force insinuate itself, integrate itself into the Russian force? I find that a very, very difficult task.

SCIUTTO: With a genuine, genuine question, you might say in the ranks about who's actually running things. Major General Spider Marks, thanks so much, as always.

President Biden is now back at the White House after spending a working weekend his team says at Camp David. He remained largely silent publicly on the rebellion in Russia. But the White hat says he spoke with Ukraine's President Zelenskyy privately earlier as well as Canada's Prime Minister as part of his close coordination with allies following the events in Russia.

For more CNN's Jeff Zeleny, he is live at the White House. Do they have a plan going forward for -- for what to do about this? And how to -- and to answer the questions, the unanswered questions about what's going on in Russia?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, first and foremost, the plan clearly over the weekend was this above all to avoid any implication of Russian interference of Western interference in the extraordinary events in Russia. That was a theme we are told of -- of conversations that President Biden had with all of his Western allies from the United Kingdom to France, to Germany, to Canada.

[22:10:11]

And indeed in that conversation with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, where President Biden offered unwavering support of Ukraine and its people, but it was the trying to avoid any sense of Western interference with what's going on in Russia, which really was the focus of this administration over the weekend.

And now, Jim, there's no doubt that Vladimir Putin has been in power for 23 years dealt with four American presidents, from Bush to Obama, to Trump, to Biden, this certainly presents the biggest foreign policy challenges as his power is questioned and indeed threatened. But as this week begins, at least as of now, there is nothing on the schedule tomorrow for the President to address this. He certainly will be asked questions about this, but officials say that the President simply wants to sort of stay out of this and keep this inside Russia.

But there is no doubt that this is a geopolitical challenge, a foreign policy challenge for this administration and all Western allies and there simply is not a roadmap. There is not a plan. There is so much information they do not yet have. This, of course, begins yet another challenge on his plate. When the President awakes tomorrow here at the White House, Jim. Certainly, again, there is no roadmap for what's ahead for the U.S.

SCIUTTO: No question. Jeff Zeleny at the White House, thanks so much.

ZELENY: Sure.

SCIUTTO: Well, just as remarkable as the 36-hour insurrection we witnessed this weekend is how desperately the Kremlin is trying to project an image that all is normal. The wreckage of Russian helicopters and Russian military jets tell a different story. Even as the wreckage smolders, this is reality that was inconceivable in Putin's Russia for much of the last two -- two decades. Here to help us make sense of this all, Russia Policy Expert Dmitri Alperovitch, as well as Washington Post Foreign Affairs Columnist, Ishaan Tharoor. Thanks so much to both of you here.

Listen, we have to start with a dose of humility here because even -- even the most informed intelligence analysts right now don't have the full picture of what's going on in Russia. But Dmitri you've been watching this closely, you have a number of years' experience watching events in Russia. First question is, is Putin's leadership, is his power damaged here going forward?

DMITRI ALPEROVITCH, RUSSIA & CYBER EXPERT: I think there's no question, Jim, that Putin is dramatically weakened here. However, I don't think that he's in danger of losing his presence anytime soon. But what he's in danger of is losing relevancy. The reality is that everyone right now in Russia, all the elites, whether you are a governor somewhere, whether you are in the security forces, where you are general, you're looking at this, you're looking at Prigozhin, challenging Putin, and so far, at least getting away with it.

And you can -- you should be asking yourself the question, what can I get away with, to enrich myself, to gain myself more power, you are willing to ask the Kremlin for permission anytime I tried to do something. So you may have a devolution into chaos here over -- over time in Russia.

SCIUTTO: Well, I mean, in the midst of this with Putin accused him of treason, right? The highest crime is called a -- called these terrorist acts and then -- then a deal was struck, and it seemed like there are no penalties.

ALPEROVITCH: Now, all is forgiven.

SCIUTTO: Well, we'll see going forward. But -- but that's quite a shift in the span of just a number of hours. Ishaan, you had Will Hurd who is winning for the GOP nomination, say that the Biden administration missed an opportunity here to act in some way not entirely clear how to take advantage of this more, perhaps push Ukraine to push harder and their counter offensive, et cetera. But the White House seems to have made the opposite decision that don't first of all, they don't have control. It seems the power to control events, there is their perception, but they also don't want to be seen as owning this, right? And therefore putting American fingerprints on, is that a debate taking place inside the administration at all?

ISHAAN THAROOR, FOREIGN AFFAIRS COLUMNIST, THE WASHINGTON POST: I'm not so sure. I think what this episode shows us and we should see it as the latest indication of the disaster of the -- of the Ukraine war for this Russian -- Russian regime. We saw, you know, there was so far away from that the delusion of the denazification special military operation. We've now seen, you know, the Russians get stuck fighting Ukrainians and Russians now fighting essentially the West as well, to a certain extent, and now the Russians are fighting the Russians. And this weekend is kind of really hammered home. What a disaster this has been for Putin.

SCIUTTO: Yeah. And listen, I mean, it's another reminder that you have multiple factions in Russia with their own armies, in effect that Wagner is not the only running militia there, Gazprom has its own -- its own militia. One of the most notable comments from Prigozhin, Dimitri, was not just his direct challenge to Putin's power, but -- but he -- he blew up Putin's justification for war in Ukraine. He said, what you -- what they've been saying isn't true. This wasn't a battle to fight, you know, to denazify Ukraine that -- that was all a lie, that's out there now in a way. How much does that damage public support or just -- just the justification for the war from Putin's perspective?

[22:15:12]

ALPEROVITCH: Look, I'm not sure it matters that much, because for the past nine months, Prigozhin has been the guy fighting this war, he's been calling for more aggressive actions this war. He said, this is now in an existential war for Russia. I think this was a part of his plan to try to undermine Defense Minister Shoigu and Chief of General Staff Gerasimov by saying that they were the ones that launched this war under false pretenses. They are the ones that snooker Putin. Of course, everyone knows that, it was Putin's war, he was responsible for it. And perhaps he was thinking that he could throw this out there for Putin to grab on to as a way to blame the failures of this war on Shoigu and Gerasimov to get them replaced. It failed.

Prigozhin underestimated Putin, he thought that he would stay out of this or side with him. And of course, Putin came out strongly, very angrily against him.

SCIUTTO: Is there any sense that Ukraine has an opportunity here now?

THAROOR: I think we have to be careful about that. We've seen how difficult this counter offensive has been in the last few weeks. We know that they're bogged down a number of fronts. We know that as much as they're trying to push through with the Western equipment they've had, that it's a long road to go. And this doesn't necessarily give them a tactical advantage. Yes, we've received that there are cracks within the Kremlin's capacity for control and projection of authority. But we don't know what actual inroads you can make.

SCIUTTO: Putin does not like challengers, Putin kills challengers or he tries to, or poison them. He's done it in London, he has done it in his own country, and those that goes for individuals like Navalny and other foreign and former Soviet agents, et cetera, Russian agents. And if you go back even in Russian history, right, you challenge the leader, the purge follows. As you're looking at Russia now, are other heads going to roll?

ALPEROVITCH: Well, you think so. But on the other hand, Putin has never faced a challenge with his own army. And clearly he wanted to question. He went on TV ordering his military to question and they didn't. You had a 5000-troop column drive into Moscow that were within two hours of Moscow, and they couldn't stop them --

SCIUTTO: There was evidence that some units were standing by, levying a boat some Russian regular army.

ALPEROVITCH: That's right. They were just watching. Let it happen. The fact that he took over southern military district headquarters, which is basically the Russian equivalent of Central Command.

SCIUTTO: Yeah.

ALPEROVITCH: You know, at the time when we were fighting Iraq and Gaza.

SCIUTTO: Owning Tampa and taking Tampa over, right?

ALPEROVITCH: That's right, with not one-shot fire.

SCIUTTO: Yeah.

ALPEROVITCH: With the military -- the military, police and other military units. They're just standing by not fleeing, not surrendering, not taking Wagner site, just standing by as Wagner rolls in, and takes over the headquarters of the unit that that is fighting the war in Ukraine. That's the nerve center for the coordination of the fight in Ukraine. That is what's remarkable. Putin, I believe, is losing control right now of his military of Rosgvardia,, which is the National Guard and maybe even part of his own security forces.

SCIUTTO: Yeah, those are hard images to forget. The other powerful image from my perspective was seen public support for Wagner, in Rostov-on-Don, you know, those -- those crowds out there. They were taking selfies. They were given coffee. They were giving snacks to the troops. They were cheering them. We've got some of the pictures up on the screen now.

Folks have been asking since the start of this war, where does the Russian public stand in public polling in Russia just not particularly reliable, but the assumption was, they're getting set fed so much disinformation, they're still on board, plus fear plus some genuine admiration for Putin what he's done for Russia. Were those images powerful to you, does that -- does that indicate that the that support is less strong than we might have imagined? THAROOR: I mean, indicates that there are -- there are different camps in the country, and that there are divisions and intense feelings on various sides that threaten perhaps Putin's legitimacy and capacity for authority. I think it's very clear that Prigozhin has spent months projecting himself as this figure of the everyman soldier, as this person who can wage a competent, more unlike Russia's corrupt military leadership. And it behooves him to have that kind of support.

Now, we'll see how this shakes out. There's a lot of palace intrigue to come. We don't know what's going to happen to Shoigu, we don't know what's going to happen to Gerasimov. And we don't know what's going to happen to Prigozhin.

SCIUTTO: I mean, you're right. He's image conscious, those images of him there with his -- his helmet on and the flak jacket in the field. Those are deliberate -- deliberate attempts to show that he's one -- one of them. Dimitri, Ishaan, standby, there's much more to discuss.

Coming up next, he led the insurrection but how did the leader of Wagner Group gain power in the first place? His past work, and it's bloody of Yevgeny Prigozhin.

Plus, as we learn new developments in the implosion of the Titan sub tonight, what could be the legal liability for the company? This is CNN Special live coverage.

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[22:23:30]

SCIUTTO: Yevgeny Prigozhin was once one of Putin's closest allies, earning the nickname Putin's chef for his close work with the Russian president which went far beyond food, we should note. But this weekend he became the leader of an open insurrection. Who is the head of the Wagner Mercenary Group, exactly? CNN's Brian Todd takes a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The man recently videotaped screaming at Vladimir Putin's top military officials for betraying his mercenaries on the battlefield is someone used to the tactic of strong arming, threatening, ruthlessly, taking what he wants.

Wagner Group Leader Yevgeny Prigozhin may have won over Vladimir Putin for displaying those traits, rather than the fact that they both hail from the same hometown, St. Petersburg.

STEVE HALL, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: I think that Prigozhin does have some personality traits that Putin not only likes, but also, I think, sees in himself.

TODD: Prigozhin's rise is a classic Russian tale of brute force ambition. He served time in prison in the final stages of the Soviet Union for petty crimes. When he got out, he started a hot dog stand, parlayed that into a series of successful restaurants that Putin sometimes brought other world leaders to. Prigozhin scored lucrative government catering contracts, earning him the nickname Putin's Chef.

HALL: Being the guy who runs, you know, the Kremlin food service might to you and me sound like not a particularly important thing, but to people who are afraid of, you know, being poisoned, that's a, you know, position of trust for Prigozhin.

TODD: Prigozhin used Putin's trust and resources to make another bold and extraordinary move around 2014. Founding Wagner as a paramilitary group, then operating mostly in the shadows.

LT. COL. ALEXANDER VINDMAN, (RET.) FORMER EUROPEAN AFFAIRS DIRECTOR, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL: Was funding it to run coups and mercenary activities out of the Central African Republic. He was involved in Syria when Russia doesn't want to use its own troops, when Russia wants to outsource to contractors, it relies on Wagner, the most prominent of these kind of institutions.

CNN has tracked Wagner mercenaries operating in the Central African Republic, Sudan, Libya, Mozambique, Mali and Syria, as well as Ukraine.

PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Prigozhin has, by some accounts, 25,000 armed men, many of whom are very battle hardened.

TODD: Battle hardened and brutal. Human rights groups say Wagner, which has recruited murderers and drug dealers from Russian prisons to fight, has committed a series of human rights abuses, including allegedly torturing and murdering a Syrian prisoner with a sledgehammer and executing a Wagner fighter who had defected the same way.

HALL: The videos of Prigozhin and his people using sledgehammers, you know, to maim and kill people. So he understands the value, the propaganda value of coming across as a brutal, almost uncivilized kind of person, because that's another kind of power that I think the Russian population certainly at least fears and in some cases respects.

[05:25:02]

TODD (on camera): One analyst says that no matter how this high stakes drama turns out in the end, that at the very least, Yevgeny Prigozhin has damaged Vladimir Putin by openly telling the Russian people that the Ukraine war was started under fraudulent circumstances. Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: Back here with me, Dmitri Alperovitch, Ishaan Tharoor. Big Question is, what exactly was Prigozhin goal here? What was he aiming to topple Putin himself? Or did he have a low lower targets in mind?

ALPEROVITCH: I actually don't believe that this was an attempt to take over power from Putin. I think that this goes back to June 10, when Shoigu issued this order to dismantle all private military companies in Russia, including most prominently Wagner, and to make everyone signed contracts with the Russian MoD effectively subsuming them on July 1, Prigozhin, said he wasn't going to follow through with this. And he expected Putin to take his side.

Putin once again, that not and said that everyone has to sign contracts with MoD. So I think this was actually an attempt to force Shoigu, to renege on that order to let Prigozhin keep walking in his business, which is very lucrative business, by the way. And I think he did not expect Putin to come out so strongly against him. He did not expect to get this far before Shoigu would capitulate and let him keep back Wagner.

SCIUTTO: So on that goal, if that was his goal short of toppling the Russian president has Prigozhin to the best of our knowledge at this point succeeded. And that goal kept Wagner is as an independent, self- governing group.

THAROOR: We -- it's impossible to answer that right now. We'll see, you know, if Shoigu is removed in the next day, that will be a sign that he has successfully shaking the trees to a certain extent. I think it's useful to think of -- of this arrangement they have and think of Putin as a kind of pre modern King, who's parceled out spheres of influence to favored warlords. And in this instance, this one warlord, one warlord par excellence in Prigozhin, has launched a kind of mutiny that has disturbed his allies and on his rivals for Putin's throne, but may have still preserved his own position

SCIUTTO: And they are warlords, their own private armies and their own private armies for money, right? I mean, these are enormous businesses. Listen, lasted perhaps a day, but with enormous military consequences, it was able to take over a major logistical command hub for Ukrainian operations in Rostov-on-Don, drive two-thirds of the way to Moscow and shoot down and it appears Russian aircraft. I mean, in other words, kill Russian forces. Those by themselves are significant events.

ALPEROVITCH: At least six helicopters, one plane, as many as 13 pilots dead as a result of this action, and this is what's remarkable. He's getting away with it, at least so far. And right now the Russian government seems to want to pretend like nothing has happened. In fact, you've seen a complete reversal, where for about 24 hours has been a complete blackout of Wagner. Essentially, they've been removed from the internet and he mentioned of them, their offices have been raided, their recruitment posters have been taken down.

SCIUTTO: Modern airbrushing, right?

ALPEROVITCH: Exactly. But now it's being reversed. Where once this deal was struck, now, everyone's pretending like nothing happened. In fact, Wagner merchandise which was being sold online for many months now was taken down, now it's back up and being sold yet again.

So I'm not so sure that Wagner is going to get dismantled here or that Prigozhin is even going to lose control of Wagner. I think part of the deal here was that he gets to keep it.

[22:30:04] SCIUTTO: We reported yesterday that U.S. intelligence was aware of that Prigozhin was making preparations for this for some time in advance. I believe the Washington Post report -- reported the same that shows a reasonable amount of information gathering inside Russia and awareness, which we saw, including in advance of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Do U.S. officials know what's going on there? Do they have a decent sense? Can they figure out what's going on there?

THAROOR: It's suddenly for the Prigozhin himself has put himself on the radar for quite some time, basically, since last fall, when the Ukrainians we took Kherson and had a lightning campaign through Kharkiv. He has been complaining very publicly about his -- his colleagues in the Defense Ministry.

SCIUTTO: In ways that you would think in Russia would -- would get you killed, right? I mean, for folks who have suffered worse fates for saying less than he said.

THAROOR: He's not had accidents on balconies just yet.

SCIUTTO: Yeah.

THAROOR: But and to a certain extent, people thought that he was getting away with it because Putin had to let him get away with it that you couldn't snuff out this this nationalist voice in the same way you can snuff out say liberal voices. But the fact that he launched this -- this insurrection -- this mutiny this coup, whatever we want to call it, and perhaps we should think about what -- what we call it, suggests that they were -- they were seems to exploit and two-thirds deport.

SCIUTTO: OK, best educated guesses what -- what happens next? Where does this go from here?

ALPEROVITCH: I think Prigozhin is most likely to get away with it. I am not so sure that he's going to disappear into exile in Belarus or that he's going to get killed. Because, look, Putin clearly wanted him dead. And he couldn't deliver on that. That is a major sign of weakness. And I think the -- the way that Prigozhin survived, he wasn't let out in handcuffs, he left with his force, with his weapons, with his equipment intact while crowds were cheering him and some of them were even hugging his soldiers and Wagner. That was remarkable.

He, overnight, propelled himself to the top of the Russian political system. He was not that well known prior to this weekend, because he was never covered on television. Now, his name recognition is off the charts. Now, everyone has seen that he has confronted the Tsar, he has confronted Putin and at least for now gotten away with it. That means that he is very likely to remain a major political figure in Russia if he survives this, and of course, that's a big if.

SCIUTTO: No question. Goodness, so much to watch. Dimitri, Ishaan, thanks so much to both of you.

Coming up next. Another story we've been following closely. The Coast Guard now leads the maritime investigation into the loss of the Titan submersible. What exactly it is looking for now.

And this just into CNN, a powerful tornado has torn through the Midwest tonight, this caught on camera. We'll have those pictures coming up.

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[22:36:31]

SCIUTTO: Severe Weather Alert now take a look at this incredible new video of a tornado seen in Johnson County, Indiana just south of Indianapolis just moments ago. Bargersville Indiana's Fire Chief said there are no reports yet of serious injuries. He added there's roughly a three-mile path of damage though. At least 75 homes damaged. The Fire Chief also said the storm took down an apartment complex under construction. Severe storms have been ongoing across multiple states leaving more than 700,000 in the dark this evening. We'll continue to follow.

We are just learning as well about a deadly incident at a Texas airport. A worker at the San Antonio International Airport was killed Friday night when the worker was quote -- and I hate to say this, ingested into a plane's jet engine. The National Transportation Safety Board says a Delta flight arriving from Los Angeles was taxiing to its gate on one engine when the ground crew member was sucked in effect -- in effect into that engine. The planes operator Delta Airlines says that they are heartbroken over the incident. The NTSB said it is continuing to gather information about what exactly happened there.

Well, now an immense in large scale recovery effort -- rescue effort has now turned into a tireless recovery operation. The U.S. Coast Guard says its biggest priority is to salvage pieces of the Titan sub that imploded last week, crucial evidence to figure out exactly what went wrong, and whether there could be accountability. For those five people who died there who's responsible.

CNN's Gloria Pazmino has the latest on this international investigation. I wonder how the Coast Guard and others are framing this now, Canadians at least raising the possibility of a criminal investigation.

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, and as far as we know, Jim, what the authorities here have told us is that this is going to be a multi country and multi-agency effort. The U.S. Coast Guard announced today that they have created a marine investigation board. And that is the highest level of investigation that the U.S. Coast Guard conducts when it comes to marine incidents.

Now, this is a process and right now they are in the first phase which is to collect the evidence. Now, we know that pieces of the vessel have been found in recent days. But 400 miles from here, there is a remote operating vehicle called the Odysseus 6000 that's been diving to the bottom of the ocean to find more pieces of evidence, hopefully more pieces of the Titan in order to help officials understand what happened here. Once they do that, they'll move on to the next step, including

gathering more witness testimony and more evidence. Eventually, they'll have to release a report. And the idea here is to make recommendations, understand what happened and make sure it doesn't happen again. Listen to officials talking about what's going to happen next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAPT. JASON NEUBAUER, U.S. COAST GUARD: During the course of the MBI the board will first and primarily work to determine the cause of this marine casualty and the five associated deaths. The MBI, however, is also responsible for accountability aspects of the incident and it can make recommendations to the proper authorities to pursue civil or criminal sanctions as necessary.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[22:40:07]

PAZMINO: Now, the U.S., the U.K. and France are helping in this effort, Jim, and you see they're a reflection for all these different countries which reflect the nationalities of the people that were on board to at least try and bring some closure to the families of those who were killed. Jim?

SCIUTTO: Gloria Pazmino there in Newfoundland, thanks so much.

Coming up, how the Coast Guard investigation could impact OceanGate's liability. We're going to speak to a maritime attorney, next.

Plus, here Titanic Director James Cameron's harsh comments and criticism about the company.

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SCIUTTO: This week, Titanic Director James Cameron, a deep-sea explorer himself offered some harsh criticism of OceanGate for not following basic safety regulations. Here's some of that interview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES CAMERON, TITANIC DIRECTOR: I think a multi-seat vehicle where I intended to be the pilot we'd go through all of the rigorous test protocols and review protocols that you have with let's say, ABS which is the American Bureau of Shipping, or DNV or German Lloyds, who are the major, you know, bureaus that class a sub, they call it classing. But it's basically certification. And I think it was unconscionable that -- that this group did not go through that rigorous process.

[22:45:07]

There's a great almost surreal irony here, which is Titanic sank because the Captain took it full steam into an ice field at night on a moonless night with very poor visibility. After he had been repeatedly warned by telegram by marconigram, by radio during the day, that that's what was ahead of him. And so I think we're also seeing a parallel here with make sure if you're going to go into a vehicle, whether it's an aircraft are a surface craft or a submersible, that it's been through certifying agencies. You know, that it's been signed off. Every --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: It seems like a basic point, doesn't it? While the U.S. Coast Guard is leading efforts to determine how the Titan sub imploded. Canada has its own investigation underway to determine the possibility at least of criminal liability for those five people killed on board and effort complicated by the fact that OceanGate's founder and CEO Stockton Rush, who once made comments about breaking safety rules in pursuit of innovation was one of the victims. He died on the SERP.

Joining me now is Klaus Luhta is a maritime attorney. And a U.S. Coast Guard licensed deep-sea captain. Good to have you on. Thanks so much for joining us.

KLAUS LUHTA, MARITIME ATTORNEY: Thanks for having me.

SCIUTTO: So he did not have any certification for this. He spoke about it publicly. He said, sometimes certifications slows things down. Sure does. Does that contribute to the possibility of criminal negligence here?

LUHTA: I think it'll weigh into whatever litigation comes about from this. There -- there was a statement at one point where he says something along the lines of safety, at some point becomes a pure loss. And so you really have to wonder about the leader of a corporation who's going on an experimental trip like this in an untested vessel, making statements like that and sort of circumventing regulations that are there to really help the vessel in the safety of the crew.

SCIUTTO: Now, according to someone else who wrote on the Titan the waiver, that customer sign -- sign, you know, includes a long list of all the many ways your customer could it could die in the submarine. I think folks watching at home, I mean, we've all signed waivers before for even simple things, right? Does that relieve the company of liability?

LUHTA: It's -- at some point, they're going to make that argument. But I don't really think that that it's going to hold any weight. You know, there's this legal axiom Caveat emptor translates to buyer beware. So you have to really consider the fact that the people going on this submersible had plenty of time to consider the risks, weigh them, look at the organization. So there is some onus on them in terms of making that decision. But then ultimately, there is going to be litigation with regard to the company and what's left of the -- of the corporation now at this point.

What do they have some -- some other submersibles there and -- and maybe some assets that can be -- be taken. But, you know, it's -- it's a really interesting case in a number of ways. Because the submersible wasn't classed as we saw in the video leading up to this. And it didn't have a flag of registry. So it wasn't registered to any country. Although the corporation is in the United States, the vessel that the submersible traveled on is out of Canada. And then you had citizens on board the submersible from the U.K., from Pakistan, from France and from the U.S. So this is really an international issue.

SCIUTTO: Does it matter that this took place in international waters, the actual event?

LUHTA: It matters in terms of it's going to be really difficult to figure out where to litigate this matter? You know, there's the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, which really dictates how things are handled on the high seas when it comes to vessels and even submersibles. And so with all of these international considerations, this may be something that rises to the level of litigation at the U.N. level.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this, you're a maritime attorney, you told me you've dealt with cases on the surface before shipping et cetera, have you ever dealt with a case like this where there was a safety event where the person involved didn't go through any sort of classing certification measures and even spoke publicly as -- as Stockton Rush did about the sort of inconvenience of safety protocols like that?

LUHTA: I've never heard of anything like this. This is completely unique. And at some point, you have to have to wonder about the thought process leading up to this. Typically, when we litigate matters regarding commercial vessels, they're classed they're under a flag of registry. They have safety management systems, everything is by the book and managed well and -- and that's for ships that travel on the surface. You would think the same would apply to ships under the surface.

SCIUTTO: Where the danger arguably greater, particularly when you're two and a half miles down. Klaus Luhta, thanks so much.

Well, we do return now to our coverage of the uprising that has rocked Russia. What's going to happen now to the mercenary group behind it and its leader? Will the Wagner fighters continue their battles in Ukraine. We'll try to answer some of those questions coming up.

[22:50:16]

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SCIUTTO: After its stunning march on Moscow, the fate of the Wagner Group, the private Russian army that has fought some of the deadliest battles in Ukraine and beyond, is now uncertain, as is the fate of its leader. CNN's Frederik Pleitgen has more from Berlin.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Jim. Well, it's a fascinating question. And certainly, it seems as though there aren't that many answers yet. So one of the things that we have heard from the Kremlin is that the fighters of the Wagner private military company are going to be able to apply to join the Russian military. That's something that's been in the cards for a while. There was a decree by the Russian defense minister a couple of weeks ago, where he said that all private military companies need to have contracts with the Russian Ministry of Defense.

Now, of course, we've always known that Wagner was a little bit different. It was by far the largest private military company and certainly the one that was the most well known to most Russians and of course, also the one that was fighting so heavily in Bakhmut. So now it seems as though for the Wagner fighters their future could be in the Russian military even though you have Yevgeny Prigozhin had always said that Wagner would not sign a contract with the Russian military.

[22:55:14]

But the questions, of course, are much bigger than that. Yevgeny Prigozhin also had a lot of other business dealings as well. There was, for instance, his media empire, of course, the U.S. said that Prigozhin and his media empire meddled heavily in the 2016 presidential election. He was indicted by the U.S. because of that. And then there's all of those dealings in places like Syria, the oil fields that Wagner runs there, but then also African countries where he's exploiting gold, diamonds and other things as well and training local forces. What's going to happen to that? Is he going to be able to retain some sort of control over that when he's in exile in Belarus, all of that unclear at this point in time. It's going to be interesting to see how the Russian leadership is going to deal with that. Jim.

SCIUTTO: Whatever the outcome, a moment in history for Russia. Thank you for joining us for our special coverage. I'm Jim Sciutto. I'll be back tomorrow afternoon for "CNN NEWS CENTRAL." CNN's coverage continues with Michael Holmes after a break.

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MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN HOST: Hello everyone and welcome, coming to you live from Studio Tours at the CNN Center in Atlanta. I'm Michael Holmes. I appreciate your company.

Coming up here on CNN NEWSROOM, uncertainty in Russia.