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CNN International: Uncertainty Remains Over Russia After Insurrection; Whereabout of Revolt Leader Unknown After Deal; Chinese and Russian Officials Meet in Beijing; Australian's High Court Rules Russia Must Temporarily Vacate the Site in Canberra. Aired 4-4:30a ET

Aired June 26, 2023 - 04:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:00:00]

MAX FOSTER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and a warm welcome to our viewers joining us in the United States and all around the world. I'm Max Foster in London, Bianca is off this week, but just ahead on CNN NEWSROOM.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are growing questions about Vladimir Putin's leadership going forward and whether his iron whip on Russia is weakening.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's too soon to tell exactly where this is going to go. And I suspect that this is a moving picture and we haven't seen the last act yet.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was a deal or somehow behind the scenes Putin exerted some form of leverage over Prigozhin.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think that called that Putin is going to be, you know, ousted, is really gone now because there's no other insurrection coming anytime soon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Live from London this is CNN NEWSROOM with Max Foster and Bianca Nobilo.

FOSTER: It is Monday, June the 26th, 9:00 a.m. here in London, 11:00 a.m. in Moscow, where a lived armed rebellion by the head of the Russian mercenary group, is exposing what some are calling cracks in the Vladimir Putin 23-year rule. We haven't heard or heard anything like this for some time and we haven't heard from the Russian leader since he spoke out against those he said were on a path of treason.

And the whereabouts of the Wagner Group head Yevgeny Prigozhin are unknown, after he agrees to a deal to end the mutiny and leave Russia for Belarus. But we're now seeing video of Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu. It was released by the Russian defense ministry which said Shoigu was visiting Russian troops at a frontline command post. It's not known what was to have taken place though and CNN can't independently verify the location of the video. Moscow is quiet right now. With the mayor saying all security

restrictions have been lifted. But experts are warning the rare uprising by Wagner Group mercenaries could have consequences down the line with so much still uncertain. CNN's Matthew Chance reports now from Moscow.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CROWD CHANTS: Wagner! Wagner! Wagner!

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For the Kremlin, these are some of the most disturbing scenes from a weekend of shocking images. On the streets of a major Russian city, Rostov-on-Don in the south, residents cheered Wagner fighters as they withdrew. Many Russians see them as heroes not as the traitors the Kremlin paints them.

And Wagner's leader Yevgeny Prigozhin has become a celebrity too. Watch his supporters hail down his car just to shake hands. The Kremlin says he's now moving to Belarus next door, but it's unclear that this is the last you'll see of him.

What is definite though, is a sense of relief, at least here in the Russian capital.

CHANCE: It's calm now, but in the mayhem of the weekend, Moscow was on high alert. Military checkpoints on the outskirts of the city. Residents racing for Wagner fighters to enter after a confrontation that never came.

CHANCE (voice-over): It was really uneasy yesterday, says Andre, but look now, people are walking in the streets and it's all good. Let's hope it will stay peaceful, he adds.

But even here, the sympathy for Prigozhin's unprecedented challenge, his tirades against the conduct of the war in Ukraine appears to have struck a popular chord.

I think it was an expression of an opinion, says Oleg, another resident of Moscow, an opinion of a powerful person who wants some justice and clarity. The belief Prigozhin should be listened to is widely shared here.

But that's not what the Kremlin wants to hear. Vladimir Putin hasn't appeared in public since making his angry pledge on Saturday. Filmed behind the scenes by state television to punish those responsible for what he called an armed mutiny. The biggest challenge to his authority in 23 years of power.

[04:05:00]

But now that challenge has been made, there are growing concerns about what a defensive President Putin stunned by the events of this weekend will do next to stay in power.

CHANCE: Well, another question tonight is, where is Russian leader Yevgeny Prigozhin? As we know, the Kremlin says he's agreed to move to Belarus. But officials there tell me they've no details on when he would arrive or what his status would eventually be. Prigozhin's office isn't saying much either, telling CNN that he's currently out of contact and will respond to questions only later.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: CNN is following all these developments. The latest we're getting is the defense minister visiting troops. We don't know when this was filmed. But isn't it the important thing is, that the Kremlin is putting these pictures out, effectively putting their support behind Shoigu, which is who Prigozhin wanted to get rid of.

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, I think it's part of an effort to restore calm, to show him out there visiting the front lines. Apparently, we haven't been able to sort of locate this video or, as you say, to verify when it was shot. But it's to show that he's, you know, in control. He's visiting western group of troops apparently in this video. Counterprogramming, I think partly to the criticism that has been leveled against him for being out of touch with troops in Belarus. Coming from Yevgeny Prigozhin. And I think it's interesting that he has done this given that we've seen Prigozhin himself so often on the front lines. This sort of tough guy demeanor and now we see Shoigu. And he hasn't done this very often. I think just a handful of times since the start of the conflict we've actually seen him visit the zone of their special military operations. So it's significant now. Also, while we see the Ukrainian counteroffensive progress, this may be an effort to restore some kind of morale among Russian troops after the events of the weekend which may well have shaken it -- Max.

FOSTER: The assumption for many was that Shoigu would go as part of this deal for Prigozhin to pull back and go off to Belarus. We haven't actually heard what's in the deal from Prigozhin, have we? So, we're hearing it all from Belarus and Russia.

SEBASTIAN: Yes, and nothing from Prigozhin yet. The latest that we heard from him on Sunday from his press service was that he sends his regards. And that he would be back in touch when he had better communication. We don't know, as we say, whether he's actually accepted that exile in Belarus.

What is interesting though I think is the attitude in Russia towards the Wagner Group itself. No one has actually fully disavowed that group. Both Putin and Mishustin over the weekend called the Wagner fighters who helped in the liberation of Bakhmut, as they call it, and called them heroes.

There was the head of the defense committee in the Duma in an interview on Sunday said, why would we disband Wagner, they're the most combat-ready part of the Russian forces. This, he said, would be the ultimate gift to NATO and the Ukrainians if we do that. So, they are apparently working on a law to define the status of Wagner. But it doesn't seem at the moment like there is an upside in Russia to defend it. FOSTER: And Wagner, you know, thinks he operates outside the law, doesn't he? So, will they just sign up to the Russian military or will they stay loyal to Prigozhin?

SEBASTIAN: Well this -- you know, the question because the language around the sort of the signing of contracts with the M.O.D., because the language around the sort of signing of contracts with the Wagner fighters would do that, seem to suggest that it was voluntary. The spokesperson saying that, you know, those who wanted to, could do it. This concern those who weren't part of the march. So it's a little unclear. It doesn't seem like they're going to be forced. And meanwhile, Prigozhin in Belarus, which is the place, of course, where they launched part of the initial invasion, it doesn't seem like that is a sort of distant exile from the so-called special military operation.

FOSTER: Just a word on Navalny, the opposition leader, he's got another hearing today possibly?

SEBASTIAN: Yes, Navalny already serving 11 1/2 years for various crimes, including, you know, contempt of court, breaking probation, is now facing extremism charges. These were first leveled in 2021. He is set to appear in another hearing today but this is closed press, journalist are not being allowed in. The initial hearing in this case, the sort of the feed was suddenly interrupted. The court said because of fears of a provocation. We don't know exactly what that relates to. So we're waiting for more news about what was in this hearing. It was set to take place or start in the last hour but again, because it's closed press we don't know exactly.

FOSTER: OK, Clare, thank you.

Some U.S. officials are still amazed the conflict in Russia ended so quickly as they had expected more violence. Even so, U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken says the unrest revealed the first visible cracks in Russia's facade. Here's what he told CNN on Sunday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: It's too soon to tell exactly where this is going to go. And I suspect that this is a moving picture and we haven't seen the last act yet. But we can say this, first of all, what we've seen is extraordinary. And I think you see cracks emerge that weren't there before. This is just an added chapter to a very, very bad book that Putin has written for Russia.

But what's so striking about it is its internal. The fact that you have from within, someone directly questioning Putin's authority. Directly questioning the premise upon which will he launched this aggression against Ukraine.

[04:10:00]

That in and of itself is something very powerful. It adds cracks. Where those go, when they get there, too soon to say. But it clearly raises new questions that Putin has to deal with. (END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: The U.S. president has spoken privately with Ukrainian leader Volodymyr Zelenskyy about the developments in Russia. But so far, Joe Biden hasn't made public comments about the situation. CNN's Jeff Zeleny has more on the U.S. president's response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFF ZELENY, CHIEF U.S. NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: After spending the weekend talking to Western allies, President Biden returning to the White House on Sunday, not taking questions or commenting on the extraordinary turn of events in Russia over the weekend. He did speak with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy saying that the U.S. has unwavering support towards Ukraine and its people.

The president also spending much of the time over the weekend at Camp David talking to Western allies from Canada, from the U.K., from France, from Germany, making the case here that all countries really are watching and waiting to see the situation unfold in Russia.

Now there is no doubt Russian President Vladimir Putin has had a reign for 23 years, through four American presidents. But the Biden administration this week, President Biden faces a new challenge for President Biden. They are not trying to be publicly seen being involved in this in any way at all. Do not want to be blamed or accused of trying to tip the scales. But there is no doubt a weaker Vladimir Putin raises concerns and worries here in the U.S. and indeed in other Western capitals about the potential danger for that.

So President Biden not scheduled to speak about this as the week begins, but he will have an event on Monday morning here at the White House. This is certainly now a new foreign policy challenge. And certainly a question here on the president's agenda, as he begins a new week.

Jeff Zeleny, CNN, the White House.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: Joining me now, Edward Lucas, a senior adviser with the Center for European Policy Analysis. Thank you so much for joining us. We will get more responses, won't we, from Western leaders, and indeed leaders around the world today now they've had the chance to absorb what happened over the weekend. How do you think the narrative will develop in the West on this one?

EDWARD LUCAS, SENIOR ADVISOR, CENTER FOR EUROPEAN POLICY ANALYSIS: I think everybody is still grappling to find answers to the many questions that remain open on this. What really happened? What did Prigozhin actually think he would do when he got to Moscow? Why did the Russian security services, the successors to the Soviet KGB fail to spot this? What will happen to Prigozhin now? Where he? What on earth was President Alexander Lukashenko of Belarus -- which is supposed to be a Russian puppet state -- doing? Apparently playing center stage in the resolution of this. And most of all, how badly weakened is Putin? This is a huge dent in

his already tattered reputation for competence and effectiveness. I doubt if anyone can say that he really played this well. So what happens to him now?

FOSTER: So president Putin is weakened, right, because he faced a challenge, and he settled it without, you know, and lifted all the, you know, charges that could have been faced for Prigozhin and his fighters as well. So, he's weakened. But how does he then deal with that? How does he get that strongman status back?

LUCAS: Well, he can't unsay what he said, from six hours into this potential coup or uprising or mutiny, or whatever you call it. He's denouncing these people as traitors and saying they're an existential threat to the Russian state. And then a few hours later, the guy's being pardoned and his supporters, they're not going to be prosecuted. And he's off to making a new life in another country. That shows that when Putin's called it, he doesn't fight like a rat which is one of his big things, that he saw a rat in St. Petersburg in the old Soviet days and it was in a corner when it was really in a desperate situation, he just bit and fought, you know, fought its way out. And that's always been his thing, don't put me in the corner because I'll fight -- I'll fight really hard.

And this actually shows that he negotiates. And that's not great for that strongman image. So I think what's really going to happen now is all the people around Putin are going to think the boss isn't going to be here forever, based on what's just happened. What plans do I need to keep my staff in my power and maybe get some staff and power from other people? So I think one should really see this is an episode in the "Sopranos" or some other sort of mafia movie rather than being subject to the sort of normal political analysis that we might usually deploy in this sort of case.

FOSTER: People are saying the end for Putin. It's far to early to say that now, isn't it?

[04:15:00]

LUCAS: No, I don't agree. Actually I wrote a piece back in January, saying that the Russian civil war has already started, and of these things have messy starts and messy ends. And I think Putin -- we are in the final act of Putin now. It may be days, weeks or months. I don't think it's going to be longer than that. And I'd be very surprised if he runs again and gets another full-term as president. Because his authority rests on the perception of effectiveness and competence. And that's been really trashed both by the war in Ukraine and all the bad decisions surrounding that and by his handling of the crisis. So I think this balloon has been punctured and it's looking increasingly crumbled and people are going to be making their plans accordingly.

FOSTER: OK, Edward Lucas, really appreciate your perspective today, thank you.

Nearly 100 million people, mostly along the East Coast, are under threat of severe storms this week. One of those storms caused what appears to be a tornado in Indiana. Look at that. Officials say at least 75 homes have been damaged and an apparent apartment building under construction was destroyed as well. There are, however, no reports of serious injuries, incredibly.

Now still ahead, Texas is suffering under a record-breaking heat dome with no end in sight. We'll have details on that.

Plus, a week after the Titan submersible implosion, investigators continue to search for answers. We'll have details on a new high-level inquiry launched by the U.S. Coast Guard.

Plus, a neo-Nazi protest in the U.S. state of Georgia is a sight no one wants to see. How officials are responding to this ugly display of hate.

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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: After a weekend of turmoil, Russia is shoring up support from one of its close allies. Russian deputy foreign minister met with his Chinese counterpart on a trip to Beijing on Sunday. Russian officials say the two spoke about the political upheaval after Yevgeny Prigozhin's insurrection. With China affirming the need to strengthen Russia's unity and prosperity. Anna Coren joins me now from Hong Kong. And that sounds like a big show of support from China for Russia.

ANNA COREN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, for sure, Max. Publicly, solidarity, privately, I'm sure there's a great deal of concern. But a day after that abrupt end to the insurrection threatening Vladimir Putin's grip on power, Russia's greatest ally China broke its silence issuing support for the Kremlin. It's closely watched this, you know, gravest challenge to Putin's rule in 23 years unfold.

The Chinese foreign ministry then issued a strong statement late last night which read: This is Russia's internal affair. As Russia's friendly neighbor and comprehensive strategic partner coordination for the new era, China supports Russia in maintaining national stability and achieving development and prosperity.

And we just heard from MOFA in China reiterating that exact same statement. Now it follows that unexpected visit by Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Andrei Rudenko to Beijing who met with the China's Foreign Minister Qin Gang, among other Chinese officials, yesterday. Where they exchanged views on Sino-Russian relations and international and regional issues of common concern. And that was what was fed to the media and we saw that, you know, photo of the pair smiling, walking side-by-side.

Russia claims, Max, that this was part of a scheduled consultation. The Chinese, however, did not announce the meeting beforehand. Now Xi Jinping and Vladimir Putin have developed a very close personal rapport in recent years over their shared ambition to challenge the U.S.-led global order. And in February of last year, the two leaders declared a friendship with no limits, shortly before Putin launched his war on Ukraine.

China has refused, as you know, to condemn the invasion of Ukraine. And it's providing much needed diplomatic and economic support for Russia. It also portrayed itself at times as a peace broker. But some analysts believe that China is closely monitoring the fallout of this purported mutiny.

A political scientist at the Australian National University says the Wagner insurrection contradicts the narrative of Putin as a strong leader who enjoys full support of his people and is here for the long haul as China's global partner of choice. If Putin's rule is unstable, then supporting him is bad business -- Max.

FOSTER: Anna in Hong Kong, thank you.

A diplomatic standoff in Australia has ended -- for now at least, Russia has just lost its appeal to build a new embassy in Australia's capital, a stones throw away from the country's Parliament building. The Russian diplomat who had been squatting on the disputed embassy sight in Canberra was seen leaving here on this video.

Angus Watson joins me now from Sydney. I mean, this has got a long history of this story, hasn't it? But it's extraordinary seeing that squatter, that's what he was, leaving the building?

ANGUS WATSON, CNN PRODUCER: Absolutely, Max, it does go back to 2008 when Russia took the lease on that site. But now with the current relationship as is between Australia and Russia, the government here very concerned about what it would mean to have a Russian diplomatic compound just a stone's throw away from Australia's Parliament house. The Australian government concerned that Russia may use that new embassy -- should it be built, should it have been built -- to eavesdrop on Australian lawmakers as they go about their work.

So on the 15th of June, the Australian government rushed through legislation to give it the power to evict Russia from the site. Now Russia reacted badly. They labeled Australia Russia phobic. They took this matter to the high court. They called in the Australian ambassador in Moscow to explain himself.

[04:25:00]

But most bizarrely one diplomatic staff member seemed to refuse to leave. He holed himself up at this construction site in Canberra, in the winter cold for days, waiting out to see what the high court resolution would be on Monday. He was seen appearing from a small building on the site to smoke cigarettes and pick up take-away food orders. So he left, Max, as you say Monday, bringing the bizarre saga to an end.

But it does go to really underscore the relationship between Russia and Australia. As it stands, the relationship between Russia and many Western countries, furious about Russia's illegal and morally invasion of Ukraine. And of course, Australia is one of Ukraine's top supporters outside NATO. Today, Australia just announced new support for Ukraine. New training

for Ukrainian troops, new ammunition for Ukraine's army and more armored vehicles to be sent from Australia to Ukraine to help the war effort. Prime Minister Anthony Albanese will be traveling to Lithuania next month where he expects to announce more support for Ukraine -- Max.

FOSTER: Angus Watson live in Sydney, thank you.

In Greece, Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis has won a second four- year term defeating his main rival by a huge margin. Celebrations erupted as the results were announced with almost all of the votes counted, his ruling New Democracy Party got more than 40 percent of the vote. Whilst leftist Syriza polled at just about 17 percent. Syriza actually performed worse on Sunday than they did in the first- round last month.

Coming up on CNN NEWSROOM, the U.S. Coast Guard launches its highest investigation into the catastrophic implosion of the Titan submersible. But what will investigators be looking for? Details just ahead.

Plus, Ukraine's military takes advantage of Russia's chaotic weekend, claiming advances around Bakhmut. We'll have more from the frontlines next.

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