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New United States Military Package To Include Cluster Bombs; Ukraine Claims More Advances Around Bakhmut; United States Secretary Holds Key Meetings In Beijing; Special Counsel Focuses On Chaotic Dec 2020 White House Meeting; Long Island Increases Patrols After Simmers Bitten; Chicago Police Officers Accused Of Improper Sexual Relations With Migrants; Leslie Van Houten A Step Closer To Parole. Aired 12-1p ET

Aired July 08, 2023 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:59:59]

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: And finally, a great moment at last night's Red Sox game against the A's. CNN political reporter Andrew Kaczynski, throwing out the first pitch on behalf of Team Beans.

He and his wife, Rachel, have helped raise more than $3 million for research to cure childhood cancer. Their daughter Francesca, nicknamed Beans, passed in 2020 from brain cancer at just 9 months old.

If you'd like to learn more, you can go to teambeansfund.com. Fred, talk about taking tragedy and turning it into something incredible, they are the perfect example of that.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: They are indeed. And I love that. You just -- you just gave us three big wins. I love it.

Thanks so much Coy Wire. Appreciate it.

All right. Hello again, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

And we begin this hour with the Biden administration defending its controversial decision to include cluster bombs in its latest military aid package to Ukraine, and it follows months of debate over whether to supply the munitions as Ukraine's weapons stockpile runs low.

Russia is already using them. And earlier today, Ukraine's defense minister thanked the U.S. for supplying the munitions.

The bombs are canisters that carry anywhere from dozens to hundreds of mini bombs.

This is video of a cluster bomb dropped on Ukraine last year. And sometimes these bomblets don't explode on impact like in this attack, and that can pose a threat to civilians.

More than 100 countries have outlawed the weapon. But neither the U.S. nor Russia support any such ban. CNN's Priscilla Alvarez is in Rehoboth Beach, Delaware, where the president is spending the weekend. Priscilla, not all Democrats, however, are on board and in support of the president's decisions. Why?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: That's right, Fred. This is a significant development and one that hasn't sat well with all members of the president's own party.

In fact, in a Washington Post op-ed, Senator Merkley and former Senator Leahy called this a serious mistake with devastating impact. They went on to say, "The last thing we need is to risk a rupture with key allies over a weapon that the United States should be leading the global effort to prohibit."

The reason and the concern is because of what you outline there, these munitions can scatter bomblets in large areas and pose a long term risk.

And look, this isn't a decision that was taken lightly by the Biden administration. It was one that was talked about at length and one that eventually the national security team had reached unanimous decision on.

But President Biden himself acknowledged it was a difficult decision to make.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Two things, Fareed. And it was a very difficult decision on my part. And by the way, I discussed this with our allies. I discuss this with our friends up on the Hill. And we're in a situation where Ukraine continues to be brutally attacked across the board by munitions -- by these cluster munitions that are -- had dud rates that are very, very low -- I mean very high, that are endangered to civilians. Number one.

Number two, the Ukrainians are running out of ammunition. The ammunition they used to call them 155-millimeter weapons. This is a -- this is a war relating to munitions. And the running out of those -- that ammunition and we're low on it.

And so, what I finally did, I took the recommendation of the defense department to not permanently but to allow for in this transition period where we have more 155 weapons -- the shells for Ukrainians to provide them with a something as a very low dud rate. It's about one -- I think it's 150, which is the least likely to be blind.

And it's not used in civilian areas. They're trying to get through those trenches, and those -- then stop those tanks from rolling. And so -- but it was not an easy decision. And it's not -- we're not signatories to that agreement, but I -- it took me a while to be convinced to do it.

But the main thing is they either have the weapons to stop the Russians now from they're -- keep them from stopping the Ukrainian offensive through these areas, or they don't. And I think they needed them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALVAREZ: Now, this decision comes at a critical time at a time where Ukrainians have struggled to make major gains in their counter offensive.

And President Biden also going to the NATO summit next week, where the war in Ukraine is expected to be a key topic of discussion. Fred?

WHITFIELD: All right. Priscilla Alvarez at Rehoboth Beach. Thanks so much with the president.

All right. The announcement by the White House comes as Ukraine continues its counter offensive against Russia. CNN's Ben Wedeman is in eastern Ukraine.

So, Ben, do we expect the supply of cluster bombs to provide a significant boost? And do we know the answer to when they arrive?

[12:05:04]

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's not clear when, Fredricka, with these weapons are going to arrive. But they -- unlike some of the weapon systems that the West and the United States have provided to Ukraine, they don't require much in terms of new equipment.

In fact, you can fly fire them off of a HIMARS, a High Mobility Artillery Rocket System, something that Ukraine has had since last summer.

As far as the situation in the battlefield goes, it continues to be difficult. But the Ukrainian say they are actually making progress in the area around Bakhmut, which seems to be, at the moment, the focus of the counter offensive.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WEDEMAN (voice over): As soon as one artillery round blast toward Bakhmut, the crew rushes to prepare for another. Ukrainian officials report gains around the town that since last year has been the epicenter of the war.

Gun Commander Artern has been in the area for months.

The task of taking down coordinates and barking orders now routine. He says he's now half deaf from the blast. Yet, he has sense to change.

It feels like they're often running away, he says, referring to the Russians. And then, the order to fire.

There is barely a lead up in the distant third shelling. The Russian says this gunner call signed Aires, are falling back.

We know because they hit us much less. One or two months ago, there was a lot of incoming. It was scary to be here. Now it's different.

On another flank, the big guns are out. This is a Bohdana, a Ukrainian made 155-millimeter self-propelled howitzer. Ukraine claims the Russians have poured as many as 50,000 troops into the defense of the town, dug in deep.

The Russians have fortified their positions and stand strong, Commander Dmytro tells me, but I think that's temporary.

Russian soldiers captured in the battle here told us the shelling on their positions was relentless.

WEDEMAN: That was a high explosive anti-personnel munition, fired at the direction of Russian troops outside of Bakhmut.

WEDEMAN (voice over): As soon as they fire, they prepare to fire again.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WEDEMAN (on camera): And when they get these cluster munitions, they probably will make a difference when it comes to the kind of fighting that's going on around Bakhmut.

We did hear Oleksiy Reznikov, the defense minister of Ukraine, saying that they thank the United States for deciding to provide Ukraine with those weapons, and said that they would stick with basically three principles.

One is that they would only be used for the liberation of internationally recognized territory of Ukraine that's currently under occupation. They wouldn't be used in urban areas and they will keep a precise record of where they were used so that when the war is eventually over, they'll know where they should focus their demining efforts. Fredricka?

WHITFIELD: We'll see if all those differences appeal to the many opponents. All right. Thank you so much. Ben Wedeman in Ukraine.

All right, in Donetsk, President Biden's exclusive interview with Fareed Zakaria, about the biggest challenges facing America and the world.

The interview begins tomorrow morning at 10:00 on "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS" right here on CNN.

And now, to a push by the Biden administration to mend the relationship between the U.S. and China, Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen is holding another high-level meeting in China on day three of her visit there.

CNN's Anna Coren has more.

ANNA COREN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The U.S. Treasury Secretary met with Vice Premier He Lifeng, at the Diaoyutai State Guesthouse today, in her last official meeting on what has been described by U.S. officials as a very productive trip.

In Janet Yellen's opening remarks, she said the complicated global economic outlook means there is a pressing need for the two largest economies to closely communicate and work together.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JANET YELLEN, UNITED STATES TREASURY SECRETARY: It's my belief that a wide swath of our economies can interact in ways that are uncontroversial to both governments.

The fact that despite recent tensions, we set a record for bilateral trade in 2022 suggests there is ample room for our firms to engage in trade and investment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[12:10:00]

COREN: Almost 700 billion in annual trade, these economies are deeply entwined. She said the relationship should have healthy competition but benefit both economies, not winner take all.

Vice Premier He Lifeng, said he had a message to convey from the Chinese leader Xi Jinping. He said the U.S. and China should have a stable relationship.

The vice premier also mentioned the Chinese spy balloon incident and said it was, "a pity it had occurred" and cause difficulty to bilateral relations. As you recall, that spy balloon was shot down over the U.S. back in March and sent U.S.-China relations to an all- time low.

Earlier in the day, Janet Yellen took part in a roundtable with climate finance leaders, where she said the threat of climate change was a top global challenge, and both countries, as the largest emitters of greenhouse gases must work together.

But Yellen's most important meeting was yesterday with Chinese Premier Li Qiang, where he described Yellen as a builder, working to improve economic ties between the U.S. and China.

Beijing sees Yellen as a voice of reason within the Biden administration. She is argued against tariffs and warned that decoupling would be disastrous.

Yellen's meetings wrap up this evening. Tomorrow morning, she will hold a press conference before flying back to Washington.

Anna Coren, CNN, Hongkong.

WHITFIELD: And this, "JUST IN" to CNN. A Cessna jet traveling from Las Vegas to Southern California crashes, killing all six passengers on board. We'll have details coming up. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:15:43]

WHITFIELD: All right. And this news. "JUST IN" to CNN. Six passengers are dead after their plane crashed this morning in Riverside County, California.

First responders arrived at the French Valley Airport and found the Cessna business jet completely engulfed in flames. All passengers were pronounced dead at the scene. The flight was on route from Las Vegas to Murietta, California.

And a CNN exclusive report. Sources telling CNN, the special counsel probe into Donald Trump is focusing on a chaotic Oval Office meeting in the final days of his presidency.

We now know that outside advisors were at the heated meeting, pushing a series of extreme measures for Trump to stay in office, including martial law.

Sources now say prosecutors have zeroed in on that fiery conversation as they investigate efforts to overturn the 2020 election.

CNN's Zachary Cohen, joining us now with more on all of this. Zach, you were part of the team that broke the story. Help us understand why investigators are so intrigued about this meeting.

ZACHARY COHEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yes, Fred, we're learning that prosecutors have asked several witnesses just in the last several weeks about this December 18th, 2020 Oval Office meeting that included a group of outside Trump advisors.

And prosecutors have asked his witnesses specifically about these three individuals, who are pushing ideas like having the military seized voting machines, or appointing a special counsel to investigate baseless claims of voter fraud.

Now, these three individuals include Trump's former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn, the former Overstock CEO Patrick Byrne, and Trump's former attorney Sidney Powell.

Now, we're learning too that Trump's former personal attorney Rudy Giuliani was also asked about this Oval Office meeting when he spoke with prosecutors over the course of two days in the last few weeks.

Giuliani was also present for this meeting, and he himself was pitching various ideas about how to investigate and produce evidence of voter fraud that, frankly, they were never able to produce.

And this meeting is important because White House lawyers repeatedly push back on not only these ideas about how to seize voting machines or to appointed special counsel, but telling Trump directly that there was not any evidence of widespread voter fraud, and he should respect the results of the 2020 election. You know, we obviously know that Trump did not do that. And upon leaving this meeting, he even tweeted for encouraging his supporters to show up on January 6th, and "be wild".

So, prosecutors appear to be trying to connect the dots of what was happening during this timeframe, between the time that the electors in various states certified Joe Biden's win on December 14th and January 6th, when rioters stormed the Capitol in a bid to stop the certification by Congress and Vice President Mike Pence.

WHITFIELD: So, might the direction of this probe is questioning the -- any indicator about whether this investigation is wrapping up?

COHEN: Yes, Fred. It's always hard to predict timing on things like this. But there are indications that, you know the investigation could be reaching at least is a potential charging decision on parts of this probe. Now, we've seen them circle back with various witnesses, sort of big-name witnesses, like Rudy Giuliani, who you sort of save until the end of an investigation like this.

But time will only tell if and when an indictment comes, and if that will be or include the former president.

WHITFIELD: All right. Zach Cohen. Thanks so much.

Let's talk more about all of this now with Michael Zeldin. He is a former federal prosecutor and the host of the podcast "That Said with Michael Zeldin". Michael, great to see you.

All right. So, what do you make of the special counsels continued interest in that 2020 fiery Oval Office meeting?

MICHAEL ZELDIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I think it's most important for an understanding of the state of mind of the individuals. I think the more actionable in an indictment sense, is the fake electoral scheme itself.

But I think this is a predicate to that, in the understanding of what these people were willing to do to overturn the election is important for the context of the special counsel investigation.

WHITFIELD: And so, to get people who are so intimately involved in that meeting, I mean, is there kind of a, you know, precursor or offering of some sort of immunity to get them to divulge?

Because if they were active participants have an exchange of ideas that, you know, might have been, you know, just really off the charts.

[12:20:03]

Why would they cooperate now to share this information without also being held accountable in any way?

ZELDIN: Well. So, Giuliani is a perfect example of the question you're asking, Fred. He came in for two days to speak to the U.S. -- the special prosecutor under what's called a proffer agreement, meaning that the words out of his mouth can be used against him.

I think they basically said, look, you know, you have a lot of information here. And if you cooperate with us, and give us that which, you know, and that which we think we need to understand what was going on here, then, maybe we can work out a deal.

As to the others in that Oval Office meeting, the most important thing to remember, of course, is the sharing of crazy ideas is not a crime.

People share crazy ideas all the time. This took place in the Oval Office, that's a little bit unusual, but they have to have some action behind those ideas.

And so far, that Oval Office meeting, didn't trigger any particular action, like seizing the voting machines or calling out the military. But it did trigger, Trump sending that tweet as Zach said, to come to D.C., because it'll be wild.

That's why I say, it's really about the state of mind of all these people.

WHITFIELD: OK. That's I was going to say. Hello, there was January 6th that happened. And, you know, the discussions prior to that, I mean, that -- that's still intriguing to the special counsel or anyone else.

So, speaking of Rudy Giuliani, then, you know, renowned New York prosecutor, America's mayor, and now, possibly disbarred, what is happening?

ZELDIN: Well, he is taken a slide down a hole that's, you know, terrible for him. I feel terrible for him. I was never big Giuliani fan when he was a United States attorney in the Southern District of New York.

But you hate to see people fall like this. And the arguments that the prosecutors in the D.C. bar case said was that his lawsuits were so frivolous, so dangerous to democracy. So, without any merit, that the very severe sanction of disbarment was merited.

And so, as I said, I think overall, it's a sad day for Rudy Giuliani, and perhaps, America, but he chose the, you know, course that he wanted to follow, and he is suffering the consequences of his own decisions.

WHITFIELD: Overall, you know, the probes involving the former president are, you know, multifaceted. The Special Counsel, you know, is also focused on a plan by Trump and his allies to submit slates of fake electors in states where Trump, you know, lost the election.

Do you think it's starting to look like a, you know, sprawling indictment, that could be in the works?

ZELDIN: Well, you know, prosecutors -- I think good prosecutors seek to hit singles and doubles. They don't need to hit grand slam, home runs. Excuse me. And I think that they would be well advised to have a narrowly tailored indictment if there's an indictment that's merited. And that would be about this full selector's scheme, the effort to get people to file false affidavits, and to certify, essentially that they were, in fact, true electors.

And if you remember the timeline, these false electors' schemes really blossomed on December 14th. And it was December 18th that we had that Oval Office meeting we're just talking about.

So, all of these things seem to be coming together. And Smith has got to figure out whether anyone is indictable and for what? I personally would like to see if there was an indictable case, a narrowly focused case on the false elector scheme, because I think it's most understandable and most easily prosecuted.

WHITFIELD: All right. Michael Zeldin. Great to see you. Thanks so much.

ZELDIN: Thanks, Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right. Coming up, officials are increasing shark patrols on New York beaches after five people were bitten within a 24- hour period. How drones are playing a role?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:28:21]

WHITFIELD: All right. This weekend, temperatures are expected to reach a boiling point, again, it seems, while it has cooled off in the Northeast, the tad, the southwest and Florida will heat up again.

And this coming after four straight days of record setting heat around the world, in fact.

CNN meteorologist Britley Ritz, joining us now. It is hard for anyone to stay cool anywhere.

BRITLEY RITZ, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Absolutely. Fred, this is ridiculous in sense.

WHITFIELD: Yes.

RITZ: I mean, we are still dealing with the devastating and unfortunately deadly heat across the Southwest. Excessive heat warning still in effect throughout the Grand Canyon, Phoenix, further south -- much of the southern half of Arizona for that matter.

Heat advisories for the southern parts of New Mexico, back down into parts of Texas. El Paso, the exception. You are under an excessive heat warning where temperatures are likely to reach nearly 115 degrees.

We're waiting for that summertime monsoon to set up it's just not happening. And over the next three days, you can expect temperatures to stay well above normal.

Places like Phoenix, El Paso, again, over 110 trying to reach 115 degrees. Let's put things into perspective here. You see the line? That's average. This is where we should be this time of year around. 107 degrees. We are well above that: 114-115 degrees.

By the time we pushed into next week, and just as Fred said, the past four days, we've actually hit an average record for the globe that is.

So, everything gets added up and we wind up with 62.62 degrees Fahrenheit on Monday, 62.92 on Tuesday; Wednesday 62.92. So, we tied on Wednesday for Monday. And a new record hit on Thursday at 63.01 degrees Fahrenheit.

[12:30:04]

Yesterday, we didn't quite make it to record, but I guess that's a good thing, right? We hit 62.96 degrees Fahrenheit. And this is just going to be an ongoing trend here in the upcoming days. So what's going on? Well, we've got a lot of land in the northern hemisphere. And land heats up quicker than water.

Plus we're also dealing with what's called an El Nino. So our sea surface temperatures warming, our trade winds are weakening, and all that warmer water gets pushed back toward our west coast. So then we wind up with a warming trend not only in the waters, but also on our surfaces. So the past nine years, we've actually had our record breaking warmth for the entire globe.

Fred, this is going to be an ongoing situation, I have a feeling. So make sure we're staying cool out there and frequent breaks if you have to be outdoors for an extended period of time.

WHITFIELD: Yes, I like your first most descriptive word. It's ridiculous. It's hot and getting hotter. All right, thank you so much, Britley Ritz. Appreciate it.

All right, well, people on New York beaches might call this pretty ridiculous, too. And they're on high alert as a result after a series of possible shark attacks. And now officials in Long Island are ramping up patrols after five people were bitten in a 24 hours period this week. Experts say sharks rarely pose a danger to humans. But while police are telling swimmers to enjoy the water, they're also telling them to be extra vigilant. CNN's Polo Sandoval is there.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have more surveillance, more lifeguards out there than we've ever had in the past.

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Five suspected shark attacks within 24 hours, leading officials to ramp up shark patrols along New York's coast.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's their territory and we're invading their territory. SANDOVAL (voice-over): The incidents happened at five different locations on Long Island beaches. On July 3rd, officials say a 15- year-old girl was bitten while swimming at Robert Moses State Park. And a 15-year-old boy says he was bit at Kismet Beach.

PETER BANCULLI, SHARK ATTACK VICTIM: My first reaction to when the shark grabbed my foot was to immediately get out of the water and get help.

SANDOVAL (voice-over): And on July 4th, three more incidents, this time all involving adults at three separate locations. All five swimmers had nonlife-threatening injuries.

CNN obtained this drone footage from Robert Moses State Park Beach on July 4th of what was initially described as sand sharks, deciding to delay the beaches opening but state park officials now say the animals were likely another species of fish according to "The New York Times."

GEORGE GORMAN, REGIONAL DIRECTOR, NEW YORK STATE PARKS: What we're hearing from the shark experts is that these bites are undoubtedly a mistake. They think -- the sharks think they're feeding on bait fish or bunker fish and that's why these are bites.

SANDOVAL (voice-over): That's why park officials say having an eye in the sky is a critical asset.

LT. ALEX GOODMAN, NEW YORK STATE PARKS: The drones much more inexpensive to fly. They can be deployed very rapidly. We are entering the natural habitat of these animals and there's always the potential for risk, but with all the assets and manpower that we have employed here, the idea is to keep people as safe as possible.

SANDOVAL (voice-over): And it's not just the northeast that's on heightened alert. This was a scene Monday in Pensacola Beach, Florida, where a shark was spotted swimming near the shore. And while it may seem like we're seeing more shark encounters, experts say that isn't necessarily the case.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot more documentation occurs because everybody's got a cellphone, so we see more of these things. So they come into our living rooms really quickly.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANDOVAL: And on Friday, New York Governor Kathy Hochul announcing an initiative to provide some of New York's coastal communities with not only the drone technology they need, but also the training needed to use those drones to keep a watchful eye on the coastline. This just a day after a 10 foot shark was located just off the coast of this beach. It was allowed to swim out to the ocean, incident free.

Polo Sandoval, CNN, Long Island, New York.

WHITFIELD: All right, try to swim carefully.

[12:34:00] All right, still to come, the Chicago Police Department is investigating multiple officers following allegations they engaged in improper sexual relations with newly arrived migrants. We'll have the details.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right, welcome back. Multiple Chicago police officers are under investigation for alleged improper sexual relations with newly arrived migrants. It's unclear how many officers are involved or if any of them have faced disciplinary action. Hundreds of migrants have been living in city buildings, including Chicago's police stations, for the past several months. They were bused to the city after crossing the Texas border. CNN's Camila Bernal has more on these shocking allegations. Camila?

CAMILA BERNAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Fred. They are shocking allegations, but it is really important to point out that we need to wait for the results of this investigation or wait for more details from officials, because as far as we know, there is very little details here. They say that this happened in the 10th district at the police station. We again, don't know how many officers are involved, but we're told that these allegations state improper sexual relations between the officers and the migrants there.

The mayor's office is now saying that they're working to relocate all of the migrants that have been at the 10th district. They said that relocation is expected to be completed by today. And they say this is part of their strategy to move these asylum seekers to essentially the proper place, to a shelter. I spoke to a lot of advocates and also to the police union, and everybody essentially agrees that the migrants should not be at police stations.

There's a lot of criticism over them being housed at the police stations. I spoke to Evelyn Figueroa, and she's been helping these migrants, and here's what she told me about these allegations.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[12:40:02]

DR. EVELYN FIGUEROA, DIRECTOR, PILSEN FOOD PANTRY: It's such a harsh setup for the police and for the migrants, and I think that this potential sexual assault really exposes the horrible communication that's occurred between the new arrivals and the police.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERNAL: And I spoke to the president of the police union as well, who told me, look, a lot of these officers go above and beyond to help these migrants, but he has serious concerns about these allegations. Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN J. CATANZARA JR., PRESIDENT, FRATERNAL ORDER OF POLICE CHICAGO LODGE NO. 7: We don't even know the validity of this complaint, the origin of this complaint, who made it, is it any truth to it whatsoever? Anybody can -- it's ridiculous.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERNAL: Now the mayor's office saying that they're very focused on these allegations, that they're providing mental health resources to anybody that needs it. And again, they're focused on trying to get everyone out of that 10th District police station. But they're also saying that essentially they will continue to work to put these migrants in the right place, essentially a shelter. That's what a lot of people that I spoke to have told me. They need to be moved out of these police stations and into a shelter. So there is, of course, a lot of criticism over this. Fred?

WHITFIELD: All right, Camila Bernal, keep us posted. Thanks so much.

BERNAL: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right, still to come, a former Charles Manson follower and convicted murderer is closer to walking out of prison after California Governor Gavin Newsom announced he will not challenge a court ruling that opened the possibility of parole for Leslie Van Houten. We'll discuss that straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:46:05]

WHITFIELD: A former member of the Manson family is now one step closer to parole. California Governor Gavin Newsom's office says he will not appeal a court's ruling that could allow Leslie Van Houten out on parole. She has been imprisoned for more than 50 years for her role in the brutal murders of supermarket executive Leno LaBianca and his wife, Rosemary.

If the decision stands, Van Houten could be the first defendant in the 1969 Charles Manson murders to be set free. Joining us now is author Jeff Guinn. He has written extensively about Charles Manson and the Manson family, including his book, Manson: The Life and Times of Charles Manson. Jeff, great to see you. So what's your reaction to Governor Newsom allowing Van Houten to potentially get out on parole?

JEFF GUINN, AUTHOR, "MANSON: THE LIFE AND TIMES OF CHARLES MANSON": I have to admit, I'm surprised. I did not think that any California governor would risk public backlash by letting any member of the Manson family out of prison. Certainly, he wasn't cooperating on letting her out at least three times previously. But now Leslie Van Houten apparently will be free.

WHITFIELD: And so what do you think might be different this time?

GUINN: Van Houten has been in prison now for just over 53 years. During that time, she completed an undergraduate college degree, a graduate degree, and she has taught classes to inmates at the prison where she's confined. She hasn't shown any disinclination to take blame for what happened back in 1969. And she was even briefly released, as I believe you might know, in 1976, there was a retrial for her. So when she was much younger, she was out and free for several months, and nothing untoward happened. It's certainly not likely to happen now.

WHITFIELD: So for those who may not be familiar with her role and that of, you know, many of the Manson family, what did Leslie Van Houten actually do? What is known to have been her behavior, her role here?

GUINN: People tend to blend the two terrible nights of murder in August 1969. Leslie Van Houten was not involved, was not present during the first night, the infamous Tate murders, when five human beings were butchered, basically. But she was part of the group that was involved with the murder of Leno and Rosemary LaBianca the next night.

While she herself did not commit the murders, those two people were killed by Tex Watson and Patricia Krenwinkel, Van Houten afterward because Charles Manson had ordered that everyone had to and this is direct quote do something stabbed Rosemary LaBianca's lifeless body anywhere from a half dozen to a dozen times.

One of her attorneys over the years said she did something terrible desecrating a corpse, but she did not commit murder under California law because she was part of the group that did. She was equally guilty of that crime.

WHITFIELD: So the family of the LaBianca's have spoken out fiercely against Van Houten's release. And in a telephone interview to the Associated Press, the LaBianca couple's daughter said, and I'm quoting now, my family and I are heartbroken because we're once again reminded of all the years that we have not had my father and my stepmother with us. My children and my grandchildren never got an opportunity to get to know either of them, which has been a huge void for my family. So how does the family kind of grapple with this decision and the position of the governor not even challenging the vote on her release?

[12:50:17]

GUINN: I don't think you can blame the LaBianca family, the descendants of Leno and Rosemary, they feel that way. I think they're justified in feeling that way. The question has never been whether Leslie Van Houten committed an atrocious crime. She did. The prison system, the people who are involved there, who have expertise, have determined that she no longer would represent a threat to society and after almost 54 years, has paid a tremendous penalty for what she did and sincerely regrets it.

That this would not mean anything to the descendants of the people that died. I think that's natural. I don't blame them a bit. I think I would probably feel that way myself were I in their place.

WHITFIELD: So quickly if released, in your opinion, is she a threat to anyone?

GUINN: Leslie Van Houten will absolutely not be a threat, as near as I can tell from considerable time spent with her, she will try as much as possible to be a contributing member of society. She's wanted the chance for a long time, and now she can prove she meant it.

WHITFIELD: All right, Jeff Guinn. Good to talk to you. Thanks so much.

GUINN: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right. Still ahead, the leaders of Brazil and Colombia are meeting today as crime in the Amazon Jungle soars, the solutions that could come out of that meeting next.

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WHITFIELD: The Amazon rainforest is more than a source of diverse wildlife and dense jungle. It's a residence to a variety of people and home to international criminal networks. Just minutes from now, the presidents of Brazil and Colombia will meet to talk about battling crime and deforestation in the area. I want to bring in now CNN journalist Stefano Pozzebon for more on all this. Stefano, what is this meeting all about? How critical is it?

STEFANO POZZEBON, CNN JOURNALIST: I think it's very critical, Fredricka, for the potential that such a meeting could have in spearheading the response to the challenges that managing the Amazon brings to both nations, Brazil and Colombia. Rarely if you have seen two presidents with such a personal connection as Gustavo Petro and Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, they are meeting at this. Our Lula da arrived here in Colombia about half an hour ago and the challenges that they need to overcome are huge. Just take a listen to what we are hearing from the ground from the heart of the Amazon.

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POZZEBON (voice-over): The Amazon is the largest rainforest in the world, that spanning over nine different nations, it is also a vast trafficking region for international criminal networks. Illegal miners and drug traffickers know no border.

BRAM EBUS, INVESTIGATOR, AMAZON UNDERWORLD: A few days ago, we took a plane and flew over a cross border river that springs in Colombia and finishes in Brazil. This river is plagued by illegal mining barges which are destroying the waterways and using a toxic quicksilver called mercury in the extraction process of gold. On this river, there have been several military crackdowns to destroy the mining barges, but they always have returned because there's no structural control in the Amazon.

POZZEBON (voice-over): According to the United Nations, Narco- Deforestation, which means laundering drug traffic and profits into land speculation and cattle ranching is posing a growing danger to the Amazon, potentially increasing the effect of climate change.

On Saturday, control over the region will be center stage as Colombian President Gustavo Petro welcomes his Brazilian counterpart, Luis Inacio Lula da Silva for a bilateral meeting here on the shores of the Amazon River. The two leaders are pushing for renewed international attention to this corner of the world. Deforestation in the Amazon is still at record levels despite commitments by companies and governments to cut it down.

And scientists believe the ecosystem will be further threatened this year by the emergence of a climate pattern called El Nino. New research this week shows that Latin America saw its highest rate of warming over the last three decades. For a leader like Gustavo Petro, the bilateral is also an occasion to raise his profile on the international stage.

I think this agenda could be interesting for Colombia because it allows Colombia to present itself as a stakeholder and an agent against greenhouse gases in Latin America, or at least for the preservation of the Amazon.

The meeting will serve to prepare an international conference over the future of the Amazon to be held in Brazil next month. But activists believe concrete steps must be taken urgently.

EBUS: Before new plans for the Amazon are made. We must recognize that there is a grave security crisis which needs more understanding and a better comprehensive answer by the respect of governments.

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POZZEBON: So, Fredricka, even though the real meeting will be next month on the 8th of August in Belando Param (ph), Brazil, having Brazil and Colombia on board around the same proposal could be pivotal in overcoming this security crisis at the heart of the forest. Fredricka?

[13:00:19]

WHITFIELD: All right, pivotal indeed. Stefano Pozzebon, thank you so much.