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CNN International: Zelenskyy Slams NATO In Fiery Tweet; White House: Biden & NATO Allies Will Discuss Path For Ukraine To Join Alliance In Future; Ukraine Appears To Provide Details About Death Of Russian Submarine Commander Inside Russia; Protesters Take To This Streets For "Day Of Disruption"; Biden To Meet With Zelenskyy On Wednesday; Rare Glimpse Into Russian Leader's Private Luxury; NATO Leaders Gather In Lithuania For Summit; Biden Approves Emergency Declaration For Vermont; Meta's Threads App Surpasses 100 Million Users; Source: Meta Downsized Election Team Ahead Of 2024 Race; Quarterfinal Matches Get Underway Today. Aired 8-9a ET

Aired July 11, 2023 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:05]

BIANCA NOBILO, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: There are concerns over the company's decision to make cuts to the team tackling election misinformation.

A crucial high stakes summit that could help shape the future of NATO is underway in Lithuania and already it's off to a productive and seemingly unified start. After resisting for months, Turkey has agreed to back Sweden's bid to join the Alliance, but it's Ukraine's path to membership that will likely dominate the two-day agenda.

Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said he's confident NATO will send a positive and strong message to Kyiv. But in a robust and fiery tweet a short time ago, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy slammed Western allies for not setting a timeline for his country to join.

CNN's Melissa Bell joins us all now live from Vilnius in Lithuania. Melissa, has Zelenskyy strongly worded statement, which includes the fact that he doesn't think there's a readiness to invite Ukraine to NATO, nor make it a member of the alliance? Has that shifted the mood or the will at all there?

MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The will is definitely still here. It was moments after President Zelenskyy had tweeted that fairly blistering attack on the fact that the wording of the statement was being agreed even before he arrived.

He's now on his way here to Vilnius. But it was just moments after that that President Biden stood by the Secretary General of NATO proclaiming that he was confident that NATO allies were going to be able to agree on that wording that has been so difficult to find. And I think one shouldn't has underestimate the divisions that have existed thus far.

Not only on the question, of course, as you mentioned, of Sweden's succession now result after some very last minute haggling that took us to the very eve of the summit, but also the divisions over the question of when and how Ukraine should join.

The fact that these NATO allies that posed for that family photo just ahead of a meeting that's now ongoing of what is now the NATO council with the leaders of the 31 NATO countries, plus Sweden since it hasn't formally joined for the time being, that is not a simple matter getting to a point where that wording, which goes pretty far in the direction of what the Baltic states, Jens Stoltenberg, those who were on the side of getting a strong signal to Ukraine could have hoped for.

And despite the objections and reticence of Washington and Berlin on this question, it was already a lot. Essentially, what we expect the wording to be at this stage is to announce not just things like the preparedness of Ukrainian forces, the interoperability to use the jargon, not just the fact of this first council that will take place tonight as we understand it with President Zelenskyy present the NATO Ukraine Council, the first of its kind, but more importantly, the setting aside of what's referred to as a map.

A map that allows normally countries that want to exceed to NATO membership to go through all the phases of the reforms they're going to have to put together, and this can take years. The setting aside of that crucial phase, the membership accession plan for Ukraine, the third part of that deal is a huge step in Kyiv's direction.

And yet, Bianca, you're quite right to point out that the words that came from President Zelenskyy as strident as they were warning, that any hesitation, any lack of clarity over Ukrainian accession was simply more motivation for Russia was fairly strident language.

He says he's on his way here to discuss it openly, and yet the optics will still be of President Zelenskyy here in Vilnius for the first time with his -- the 32 eventually members of NATO alongside him. And that will be at the next big family photo that'll be organized for tomorrow, Bianca.

NOBILO: And Melissa, in addition to the optics, the wording and the rhetoric and the public display of unity, where are the disagreements between NATO allies in terms of what is strategically best to protect Ukraine and also to avoid escalation with Russia in terms of the speed of the commitment to Ukraine and when it joins?

BELL: I think the divisions are still fairly profound and longstanding. And beyond the optics of this particular summit will continue to divide what President Zelenskyy, essentially, in a very strongly worded tweet is saying is, look, we shouldn't be having to fulfill conditions at this stage. You should just be making it clear to Moscow that we are joining.

What the more refs and members of the Alliance are wary of is not just the fear of escalation when it comes to Russian involvement in Ukraine but also the technical fact of the hostilities being ongoing.

[08:05:09]

The fact that any too strong signal would mean that essentially NATO might find itself at war with Russia, clearly, not an option. But also beyond that by sending too clear a signal to Ukraine, the temptation might be for Ukraine not to carry out the very important reforms that NATO believes are necessary for any candidate country that hopes to join the alliance.

Remember, Ukraine here is not alone. So much of this summit in the last few months and years of NATO's efforts have been focused on Ukraine, but there are other candidate countries as well. And so these questions will continue to dominate and divide, no doubt, NATO members.

But the fact that they have gotten here managed to get behind them the issue of Swedish succession and look ahead in a fairly serene way to the fact of some sort of statement at the end of this that will signal as strongly as they could. Their attention of allowing Ukraine in as quickly as they can is perhaps the best that could have been hoped for and already some substantial sign of success. Bianca?

NOBILO: Melissa Bell for us in Vilnius, Lithuania. Thank you very much.

Ukraine isn't claiming outright responsibility for the death of a Russian submarine commander, but Kyiv appears to be providing details about how he was apparently killed. According to Russian media, the commander was shot dead in the southern city of Krasnodar by an unknown person.

Early Tuesday, Ukrainian intelligence said it happened at 6:00 a.m. while the commander was jogging in a deserted park.

CNN's Clare Sebastian joins me now to discuss this. Clare, there have been many deaths of prominent Russian figures from the military industrial and energy complex that we've seen often potentially attributed to the Russian state itself. This one seems different. What do we understand?

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So both sides, essentially, the Ukrainian defense intelligence and Russian media, the Russian Investigative Committee, they agree that this happened, right? That this man died early on Monday, mourning in the Russian city of Krasnodar. We've got two very different tellings of the story there, right?

The Ukrainian Defense Intelligence statement says he was a commander of a submarine in the Black Sea Fleet. They named the submarine as Krasnodar, incidentally, the same as the town in which he died. They say that, you know, these submarines are fitted with cruise missiles. We know that strikes from submarines in the Black Sea have been some of the deadliest in the war.

So this could be, according to that report, someone who was involved in the war itself. They then go into great detail about how he died. They say it was at 6:00 a.m. They named the type of pistol that was used. They say he was shot seven times. They say that it was raining, and so the park was deserted so there were no witnesses. By contrast, the Russian telling of the story and the state media not only does not describe him as a commander of a submarine, and it says that he was a essentially a bureaucrat. He was the deputy head of the mobilization department in the -- for the city of Krasnodar.

So at some point, perhaps, he transitioned out of military service into some kind of bureaucratic role. We don't know. In terms of accusations, we're hearing from Russian military bloggers blaming Ukrainian special services with this. We did get another interesting statement later in the day from Ukraine Strategic Communication for the Armed Forces saying somewhat cryptically that he -- this man had, had sort of realized that strikes on civilians were not effective. And so he was killed by his own men for that.

So this is really murky at this stage, but I think what it does show the open killing of a Russian commander on Russian soil is that, you know, it underscores the uptick in violence, the sort of spillover effects of this conflict into Russia, and it could have repercussions.

NOBILO: Clare Sebastian, thank you so much.

Protesters call it a day of disruption and resistance. For the 27th week in a row, Israelis are demonstrating against the government's moves to overhaul the nation's judicial system. At last count, at least 42 people were arrested. Protesters were also dragged out of the parliament Monday after lawmakers voted to advance a key provision of the judicial overhaul package that critics say will undermine democracy.

Protesters say that their goal is to disrupt daily life in Israel, including at the airport where we've seen many protests. CNN's Hadas Gold is at Ben Gurion Airport and she joins us now live. Hadas, what is happening around you?

HADAS GOLD, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, Bianca, you'll probably hear a lot noise. We're here at the arrivals level up in down airport where protestors have already blocked one of the pickup planes that are used. There is a massive police presence here, and we're still about an hour away from when the protestors were actually scheduled to be here.

So we only expect this protest to grow bigger and bigger, and it's part of this whole day of disruption that protest organizers have planned a day to really disrupt the daily life of Israelis from the north to the south. They've taken to the streets, they've been blocking highways, they've been in front of the Supreme Court.

They're here in front of Ben Gurion Airport. Now, this protest was sparked by legislation that was passed its first reading last night.

[08:10:01]

This is now part of a new approach by the Israeli government to pass its judicial overhaul in a piecemeal fashion. Because if you remember back in March after massive general strikes, after the defense minister came out against the overhaul, the legislation was paused as the tax and negotiations to the opposition for whatever this judicial reform would look like.

Those negotiations have failed, and last night, the legislation, at least, a very small part of it was brought forward once again. Now this aspect of legislation has to deal with whether the Supreme Court is allowed to rule that government actions are unreasonable or not.

Right now, they have viability to say, the government, what you did, that's unreasonable. We're striking it out. This law attempts to take that power away from them, but really it doesn't matter so much what this -- what the potential legislation actually does.

It's about the overall reform that this government is trying to push forward with these protestors here, because they don't believe Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu or this coalition government, when they say they're going to soften the legislation just a bit.

For these protesters, what they want to see is this overhaul completely off the table or for negotiated compromise, real negotiated compromise to be brought. So they're having this day of disruption right now. Their ultimate goal is, hopefully, obviously, to stop the legislation, but also hopefully to get some ministers once again, like the defense minister, like others to come out once again against this legislation and to stop it in its tracks.

These protests are saying they don't plan on stopping any time soon. Some of them are even calling for people to pitch tents in Central Tel Aviv to keep a sort of constant protest going on. But as you can hear here, this protest is only growing. It's getting louder and louder, and we'll see if they manage to affect airport operations. Bianca?

NOBILO: Hadas Gold for us go right in the middle of the Israeli protest against the judicial overhaul in -- at Ben Gurion Airport for us. Thank you, Hadas.

Still to come, the Ukrainian capital remains under fire as the country accepts new Western weapons and continues its push to join NATO. All the latest on the war ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NOBILO: France and Germany have announced substantial new military support for Ukraine As the crucial NATO summit gets underway in Lithuania. Ukraine is in desperate need of more ammunition and artillery as its fighters train up on new Western weapons that they've been given.

CNN's Ben Wedeman reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[08:15:08]

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is practice.

(GUNFIRE) Preparing for a battle just a short drive away on Ukraine's eastern front. For an army long trained in the use of Soviet-era weapons, it's a time for transition to the latest arms to arrive from the West -- an American made grenade launcher, an American made 50 caliber machine gun.

(on-camera): This exercise is designed to bring together troops, fresh from the front around Bakhmut, with new recruits to show them how it's done.

(voice-over): Veteran soldier Denys explains the fire points of a machine gun to recruits fresh, but not all young.

DENYS, GUNNER, 57TH BRIGADE: We need many weapons, armors and vehicles.

WEDEMAN (voice-over): This commander call sign Martsin puts it this way.

The Russians have an immense amount of old Soviet weapons, he says. They just throw a massive metal at us, we can't overcome them this way. We need quality and precision.

Nearby, other recruits are rehearing an assault, jumping out of an old Soviet-era armored personnel carrier, it venting under the watchful eye of their sergeant.

Mykola served in the Soviet army, and then drove a tractor for decades before joining the Ukrainian army a year ago.

He says NATO should provide something newer than his old Soviet workhorse.

(on-camera): It's as old as the two of us?

MYKOLA, BMP DRIVER, 57TH BRIGADE: I can't believe it.

WEDEMAN (voice-over): Mykola has simple advice for the new troops -- move fast and stay low. And for NATO, just move fast.

Ben Wedeman, CNN, Eastern Ukraine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NOBILO: U.S. President Joe Biden will meet with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy on Wednesday during this NATO summit in Lithuania that we've been talking about. The meeting comes after Mr. Biden said that Ukraine isn't ready for full NATO membership just yet, which comes as no surprise. But U.S. officials say the allies will send a united positive signal on the path forward.

Mr. Zelenskyy issuing a sharply worded statement on the matter saying that uncertainty is weakness and that it was absurd for NATO not to set a more concrete timeline. Meanwhile, the war rages with Russia. Air raid sirens went off in Kyiv Tuesday morning as the city says it, repelled Russian drone strikes. Ukraine's military also reported shelling in the Kherson region.

CNN International Diplomatic Editor Nic Robertson is with me in London to discuss this. Nic, the counteroffensive is moving perhaps slower than some commentators or even allies might have hoped. What will be the importance of the result of this NATO summit in terms of morale and hope for the future?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: The commitments of more military aid that we've heard coming from the number of nations, Norway being, you know, one of the latest, over $900 million committed there. These commitments going forward have been or rather over the past year have been somewhat ad hoc.

And I think if the -- if NATO gets the messaging on track where it wants it to be, those commitments then become -- look like they're much more longer term. And Ukraine can expect these to be not routine, but to follow on that there's something here, a path for Ukraine, not to the membership that it's been -- that it's speaking about and that President Zelenskyy is angsting very publicly about.

But in terms of keeping the military fight going, I think the reality for Ukraine becomes they can have a better sense of how they're going to fight the fight because they're getting all the equipment they want. And that's messaging for Russia too. And I think this allows Ukraine to look forward to the next year of battle because the battlefield isn't going as fast now.

Now they'll be able to plan perhaps and say, OK, we'll get so far this year and we'll have to do more next year, and I think that's perhaps going to be the narrative that emerges over the next few months.

NOBILO: There has been some criticism that the strategy in terms of focusing on how to end this conflict and the end game of Russia's invasion of Ukraine leaves something to be desired. What role could these commitments that NATO makes to Ukraine around NATO membership and security guarantees play in a path towards one day finding an end to this war?

ROBERTSON: Yes, I think that -- and President Zelenskyy, I think, recognizes and understands this. And I think when President Zelenskyy says, you know, a weakness -- this shows weakness if there isn't a certain path. I think this gets to the point that Zelenskyy has sort of pretty much been on track all along, you know, saying we need the tanks, we need the fighter aircraft from the very beginning.

[08:20:07]

Ukraine has been very good at saying what it really needs to fight the fight today. And the armaments have been slow in coming. And it's sort of proven on the battlefield today that they are somewhat slow in this counteroffensive and they have been struggling to hold Russia back in places.

So I think, you know, what Zelenskyy also recognizes at the moment is that if they can't fully vanquish Russia, then they kind of have to come to a piece that's not on the terms that they want. Everyone said Ukraine is going to be in the room.

One of his points about the discussion about NATO, about what NATO is going to say about Ukraine's membership, was that we're not in the room. So, what does this tell us? It really tells us that, ultimately, the level and type of security guarantees that Ukraine may be offered and its speed and path of membership to being inside the NATO fold is perhaps going to be something that allies and partners that are supporting it now can use as leverage to say, look, you're going to have to settle for less than what you want.

This is not the language that's being used today, but it's also a reality of what may happen in the future. It's the hard reality of the situation that Ukraine may not take all land back, but they will get these guarantees. And I sort of sense that's the direction of travel, because they're not getting all those guarantees today.

NOBILO: Nic Robertson, thank you so much.

A secret train meticulously disguised to conceal who is inside -- Russian President Vladimir Putin. CNN got a rare glimpse inside and we'll show you next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NOBILO: Welcome back. From the outside, it looks like any other train in Russia. But behind that unassuming exterior is a vehicle specifically designed to transport one man in luxury, Vladimir Putin.

Matthew Chance has this report from Moscow.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A rare glimpse inside Putin's secret train, with leaked documents shown to CNN --

GLEB KARAKULOV, FORMER ENGINEER, RUSSIAN FEDERAL PRIVATE LUXURY (through translation): It's a special train for the president.

CHANCE (voice over): -- revealing how the Kremlin leader travels amid increasingly tight security and luxury.

ABBAS GALLYAMOV, FORMER SPEECHWRITER FOR VLADIMIR PUTIN: He is surrounded by enemies, and psychologically, he wants to feel protected.

[08:25:07]

CHANCE (voice over): From outside, train number one as it is dubbed in Russia seems ordinary. Its heavily armored carriages, purposely disguised with regular Russian Railways paintwork and grime.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Speaking Foreign Language)

CHANCE (voice over): State media was once allowed inside recording President Putin meeting transport officials in a sumptuous boardroom. The trains other 20 or so carriages, some updated as recently as last year, have remained a closely guarded secret until now.

Zircon Service is a Russian company that builds what it calls elite wagons for its clients, specializing in luxury designs for private and state corporations, and of course, the Kremlin.

Among a trove of documents, including blueprints, letters and images, obtained exclusively by the Russian investigative Dossier Center and shared with CNN. This one from Zircon Service, dated August 2018 notifying the Kremlin of a test run for what it calls the sports health wagon that's been ordered.

Accompanying photos show what the Dossier Center says is Putin's private gym onboard the train. As recently as last year, the Kremlin was looking to upgrade the gym with American equipment to replace the Italian machines originally installed.

A former member of Putin's personal protection service, who says he fitted the train's secure communications equipment before defecting from Russia told the Dossier Center, the Kremlin leader started traveling by train more regularly in the build up to the invasion of Ukraine last year.

KARAKULOV (through translation): Planes can always be detected. While there are so many trains and there's no real way to track them. So, this way was just for secrecy so nobody knew his movements.

CHANCE (voice over): But discretion for the Russian president doesn't mean discomfort. Leaked plans for the train also show a luxurious spa onboard, including a Turkish steam bath. And according to the Dossier Center, a fully equipped cosmetology suite with a massage table and high-end beauty equipment including a radio frequency machine used to enhance the tightness of human skin.

(on-camera): Now the Kremlin disputes the Dossier Center's findings telling CNN that President Putin neither owns nor uses a railway car like the one described. But in the aftermath of a recent armed rebellion here in Russia, in which Putin's authority was threatened, the focus on his isolated existence is higher than ever.

(voice over): And the idea of Putin being pampered as he travels incognito by armored train underlines how strangely cloistered the Kremlin leader has become, even paranoid and besieged according to his former speechwriter.

(on-camera): Why is it do you think that Vladimir Putin and the Kremlin has spent such large sums of money planning and constructing this armored presidential train?

GALLYAMOV: He is losing the war, he is losing in politics, he losing in popularity. He is getting more and more enemies, committing more and more crimes. He cannot build political walls, so he wants to build the walls of concrete and armor, the physical defense.

CHANCE (voice over): There are signs that's an image the Kremlin knows it should show. In recent weeks, we have seen Putin more publicly engaged than he has been for years.

But in his increasingly hostile world, the security and luxury of train number one, maybe sanctuary indeed.

Matthew Chance, CNN, Moscow.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NOBILO: Coming up, it could be one of NATO's most consequential summits, and it's underway in Lithuania right now. What's at stake and why Russia is watching so closely just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:32:33]

NOBILO: Welcome back. We want to return now to our top story, the NATO summit that just got underway in Lithuania. NATO leaders are in a celebratory mood after Turkey agreed to allow Sweden to join the alliance major blow to Russia's efforts to keep NATO from expanding.

Much of the attention now turns to Ukraine and President Zelenskyy's push to get a firm timetable for admitting Ukraine to NATO. The White House's National Security Council Spokesman John Kirby just talked to CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KIRBY, U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL SPOKESMAN: We believe that NATO is in Ukraine's future. I mean, that's something that the alliance agreed way back in 2008. Now there's some reforms, good governance, rule of law, political reforms that Ukraine still needs to work on. And we understand that it's pretty hard to work on some of those reforms when you're at war.

And of course, they are at war right now. So NATO membership in the immediate future isn't likely because that would put NATO at war with Russia. Now, what the allies will do over the next couple of days is talk about a pathway to get Ukraine there eventually and what that pathway needs to look like.

And part of that path, Phil, will be making sure that the allies stay united on two things. One, supporting Ukraine in the fight they're in so that they can succeed in this war against Russia. And two, that we look at their long term self defense needs.

What kind of security commitments are they going to need from the United States and from allies and partners as they work towards that path towards NATO membership? Eventually they'll get there, but there's a lot of things that still need to be done before, you know, we reach that point.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBILO: Let's bring in CNN White House Correspondent Arlette Saenz who's in Lithuania. Good to see you, Arlette. So this summit already has been productive. Obstacles have been removed as far as Sweden is concerned. There's all eyes really on Biden and Zelenskyy and their meeting, which we now understand is happening. What more do we know about the agenda?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Bianca, President Biden is hoping to emerge this summit with a strengthened and unified NATO. What officials say would be a disappointment to Russian President Vladimir Putin. But there already is clearly a flashpoint that is emerging over the discussions about an eventual pathway for Ukraine to join NATO.

Now, President Biden heading into the summit, and officials here on the ground have stressed that now is not the time for Ukraine to join NATO. As you heard John Kirby there, he outlined that this war with Russia still is ongoing. And if they were to include Ukraine in the alliance, that would then dive other native countries directly into conflict with Russia. That is something that these NATO allies are not ready to see at this moment.

[08:35:09]

The White House has also been stressing that there are still reforms that Ukraine needs to make before any type of acceptance into the alliance. And a little bit earlier this morning, as President Biden met with NATO Secretary General Stoltenberg, he said that he agreed ease with the proposed language so far when it discusses Ukraine's path to a membership.

But we also have seen a very fiery response from Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. He is set to travel here to the NATO summit today. And in a tweet earlier today, he was said that he was taking issue with some of the things he's learning about the proposed language that will be coming out of this summit.

He specifically said it's unprecedented and absurd when time frame is not set neither for the invitation nor for Ukraine's membership. Zelenskyy has really been pushing for security guarantees and he also wants to see a clearer pathway, a clearer timeline laid out when it comes to Ukraine's possible invitation and membership within the NATO alliance.

So this is something that certainly will come up in that meeting that we expect to happen tomorrow between President Biden and Ukrainian Zelenskyy. The White House hoping that this will show some type of unity and especially send a message to Russia as they continue to wage their campaign against Ukraine on the battlefield.

But as you noted, the President and the NATO is also celebrating a major win, a major victory this morning as Turkey finally relented on its objections to Sweden joining the NATO alliance. This will still have to go through Turkish parliament, have that formal vote.

But if Sweden were to formally be accepted into the alliance, it is significantly expanding NATO territory as the NATO alliance is trying to build up their own deterrence efforts, but also send a message to Russia about their efforts here in Europe. NOBILO: CNN's Arlette Saenz, thank you so much.

My next guest says that NATO membership for Ukraine is critical. Timothy Garton Ash is a historian and a professor of European Studies at the University of Oxford and he joins us now live from Oxford. Thank you so much for joining the program, sir.

TIMOTHY GARTON ASH: Good to be with you.

NOBILO: I was reading your latest piece in The Guardian this morning. So you returned from Ukraine not that long ago. I'm curious to get your thoughts on what you feel that Ukrainians in terms of citizens and also those on the front line need to hear from this NATO summit to sustain them in terms of morale and hope.

GARTON ASH: So I was in Kyiv last week. I got back on the 500th day of the war on Saturday. I was last there five months ago. And I'm very struck by how exhausted people are, how the war is rarely taking its toll. 78 percent of Ukrainians now say they have someone in their close family or friends who's been killed or wounded in the war.

Something like one in five children outside the country. I mean, the country is really getting battered. And what everyone said to me, not just in high levels in the government, but also in society, is we need a clear signal about security because without a promise of security, we're not going to be able to rebuild our country.

So that's the clear message. And what they mean by that is not joining NATO immediately. No one's talking about that. They talk about a political invitation to NATO which would be implemented when the conditions are right i.e. after the war, that's number one.

And number two security commitments. Something like what the United States does for Israel. We're going to keep supplying you the arms equipment for training so that you can defend yourselves.

NOBILO: How did you interpret President Zelenskyy's statement presuming that you've seen it, which was strongly worded just an hour or so ago and that frustration? It reminds me of the friends that I have that are in Ukraine. Often they're sharing on their social media cartoons or images of Ukraine being the last defender or the bastion protecting Europe from Russian aggression too.

They feel like it's not just -- they should be grateful for NATO support, but that Europe should also be grateful for Ukrainians putting themselves on the line to counter Russian aggression.

GARTON ASH: That is exactly right. And again, it was very striking on this trip, that sense of frustration and even some anger directed towards the west, which I hadn't heard five months ago, including from people in, by the way, very senior people in the government.

And the irony is, six months ago, a year ago, it was all about the Europeans. For example, Germany's slowness to deliver tanks to Ukraine. Now it's almost all focused on the United States, on President Biden and what he said to you on CNN, to Fareed Zakaria on Sunday was, of course, super cautious.

[08:40:18]

Ukraine's not ready for membership and even the Israeli security commitments he said, if there's a ceasefire, if there's a peace agreement. And so I think what you're hearing from President Zelenskyy is that frustration particularly at the stance taken by the Biden administration. So it really is all eyes on the Biden administration.

Will Zelenskyy -- and by the way, other European leaders such as President Macron of France, be able to persuade him to be bolder in the security message, the security commitment he gives to Ukraine.

NOBILO: Do you think that the Americans have not then fully absorbed that the speed or the -- how slow some of the support has been for Ukraine because it's taken time to build a consensus and ultimately for allies to decide, yes, they are willing to send tanks yes, they are willing to send more lethal aid to Ukraine?

Have they not absorbed and internalized that to understand that making decisions slowly has such an impact of what's happening on the battlefield? Ukraine will shortly have a manpower issue, among many other reasons why they need to make those decisions more rapidly and not be constantly conscious (ph).

GARTON ASH: And the counteroffensive is going very slowly, particularly in the south because the Russian defenses are formidable and the Russians have superiority in the air. Look, the U.S. support has been indispensable and massive, let's be clear about that.

And the U.S. military has done an amazing job in supporting the Ukrainians. But the Biden administration has been examining every single weapon system, kind of weapon for weeks if not months for fear of escalation. Jake Sullivan once again a few days ago talked about the danger of a Third World War.

And so there is an extreme caution from the Biden administration which I think is counterproductive and certainly the Ukrainians see it that way. Plus the fact that it's quite clear that the Biden administration is thinking that they want to get Ukraine to the point of negotiating.

And it's almost as if NATO membership and Israel style security commitments are going to be a reward for Ukraine beginning a negotiation in which it might have to give up some of its territory so -- which I think is a very problematic position for the United States to take. So I hope very much of President Biden over the next 24 hours will get a bit bolder and clearer in his strategy.

NOBILO: Interesting. Our International Diplomatic Editor Nic Robertson earlier in the program suggested the same interpretation of using it as leverage almost. Timothy Garton Ash, thank you so much for joining us.

GARTON ASH: If I may say so, I think that's very plausible because I've also talked to other senior officials who have been talking in that direction. NOBILO: Yes, very interesting indeed and I'm sure a theme that we're going to be exploring more and more in the coming days and weeks now. Thank you so much for taking the time to join us.

GARTON ASH: Good to be with you.

NOBILO: Heavy flooding hits the U.S. State of Vermont, threatening to surpass the damage from a historic hurricane over a decade ago. We'll take you there just ahead.

And despite launching a successful app, sources say Meta has slash jobs within its election team. So what does that mean for the upcoming political season? A live report ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:46:25]

NOBILO: Welcome back, U.S. President Joe Biden has approved an emergency declaration for the state of Vermont as it struggles with heavy flooding of its own. Northeast storms have dumped a month's worth of rain on the state in short order, drawing comparisons to a devastating storm back in 2011 Hurricane Irene.

CNN's Miguel Marquez joins us now from the state's capital city, Montpelier. Miguel, what is the situation there now? I can see the water rushing behind you and splashing. You know, how many concerns are there about public safety and health at this point?

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Lots. The good news is the rain has stopped and the sun is almost peeking out. The bad news is the water has not stopped rising. This is the Winooski River that goes right through the state capital, right a block from the state house here in Montpelier.

I want to show you -- I want to let you listen to this water as it hits this bridge. It started overtopping this bridge about three hours ago. Listen to this.

And the amount of debris that is coming down now, we are just west of a junction where the north branch of this river comes off of a reservoir. That reservoir is 4.5 feet from overtopping. To give you a sense of things, yesterday they had more rain in this area of Vermont than they've ever had in the history books of keeping records for rain.

That reservoir rose 42 feet. That's what, 13 meters or so in a 12-hour period. There's another trestle bridge just below us, and you can see that the water hitting that bridge as well. There are concerns that if that debris keeps gathering on this bridge, it started to overtop it already. If the debris keeps gathering on this bridge, it could damage it structurally.

They've affected over 100 water rescues. We have not so far heard of any fatalities across Vermont, but the state, you know, they've had tons of rainfall over the last several weeks, and now the sponge is just full. There is no place for the water to go except over the surface.

Look at that. More debris hitting this. It looks like big pieces of construction material now hitting this bridge. And every time it does, you can feel it shudder and shake. Sometimes you can feel the trestle or you can hear the trestles themselves start to creak.

It is disturbing to be out here. We're not going too far out, though. Back to you.

NOBILO: Well, stay safe, you and your team. Such a big fan of your reporting and, you know, it's great to have you there and really showing us the speed of that water behind you. I mean, you can say it in scripts, but it's just immediately apparent.

Thank you so much.

MARQUEZ: Incredible.

NOBILO: Now, despite the launch of a very successful new app, there's some concerning news about Meta, the parent company of Facebook and Instagram. Sources tell CNN that Meta has made a number of cuts to its election team responsible for addressing misinformation and coordinated troll and harassment campaigns.

Meta wouldn't confirm that when they were contacted by CNN. There are worries that it could affect content just ahead of the 2024 election season. This coming as more than 100 million users' signup for Meta's Threads days after its launch.

Business writer Clare Duffy joins us now live from New York. Clare, great to speak to you. So we have this juxtaposition the success of Threads and this new venture for Meta, but hearing that they are potentially streamlining a key team that would be fighting misinformation and these harassment campaigns at a critical political juncture.

CLARE DUFFY, CNN BUSINESS WRITER: Yes, Bianca, it is a really critical time. It comes ahead of elections not only in the U.S. but Taiwan, India, and a number of other countries next year. And CNN has learned that the -- Meta laid off 20,000 workers since November. It's about 25 percent of the company's staff at the time of the -- start of the cuts.

[08:50:06]

And we've learned that those cuts included layoffs to the teams that handle, as you said, disinformation, coordinated troll campaigns, and specifically disinformation campaigns aimed at sewing confusion and mistrust around elections. And of course, this comes as the company has now launched a new platform that it needs to try to keep safe for users.

Now, Meta and a number of other tech companies have tried to ramp up automated detection of these kinds of bad actor campaigns, but a lot of this misinformation content really requires human review to identify if there are rules violations. Now, Meta says it has invested $16 billion in efforts since 2016 to keep its platform safe, but the company wouldn't answer questions about specifically what kinds of resources are being deployed to keep threads safe.

NOBILO: Clare Duffy, thank you so much for joining us.

Still to come and then there were eight. The quarter finals have just gotten underway at Wimbledon. We'll check in on the latest action when we return.

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NOBILO: We're getting down to the nitty gritty at Wimbledon. The first quarterfinal matches on both the men's and the women's side are untapped. Women's world number one, Iga Swiatek's quarterfinal match began just moments ago. And after that match, on the men's side, number two seed Novak Djokovic will be in action and he's trying to win his 8th Wimbledon singles title.

CNN's World Sport Coy Wire is watching all of the action. Coy, tell us what spectators have to look forward to today.

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Hi, good to see you. The quarter final action, you got to love it. Can seven seed Andrey Rublev and Novak Djokovic's dominance at Wimbledon? They faced off earlier this year at the Australian Open in the quarterfinals as well. Djokovic won that in straight sets before going on to win it all.

But Djokovic has not lost at Wimbledon in six years. He's looking to win a fifth straight Wimbledon title 8th overall. That would tie him with the legend Roger Federer for most all time at the All England club.

In the other men's matchup, you have Italian eight seed Jannik Sinner. He's in the Wimbledon quarterfinals for a second straight year, and he's going to face off against 25 year old first timer at Wimbledon, Roman Safiullin of Russia.

Now on the women's side, the number one ranked player in the world, 22-year-old from Poland, Iga Swiatek, she is facing Elina Svitolina right now of Ukraine. Swiatek is a four-time grand slam champ, but she had never made it past the fourth round at Wimbledon.

She's seemingly struggled with grass in the past, but now she is mowing through the grass and her opponents as she carries a record wins this year. Not record. She's leading with 42 wins this season on tour.

Now, the 28-year-old Ukrainian Elina Svitolina, she's playing for something much bigger than herself. After her last win here, last round at Wimbledon, she got emotional, saying that she has a lot of people back home in Ukraine cheering for her as they continue their ongoing invasion by Russia.

[08:55:10] She's also playing for her daughter, becoming a mom to baby sky just nine months ago. And then in the other women's matchup underway, world number four, Jess Pegula. She's taking on Czech Republic's Marketa Vondrousova. Pegula has overcome injuries.

She has been emotionally stressed by her mother's cardiac arrest, which has rocked the family, but she's continuously chipped away at adversity and continually climbed that mountaintop at majors. She's been now in the quarter finals of all four majors and right now, she's looking to make her first ever semifinal.

And Vondrousova, though, she's ranked 42nd in the world. She is an Olympic silver medalist and she's a French Open finalist. And when she is healthy and on, she's scary good. So, Bianca, get your popcorn ready or your berries and cream and strawberries and cream, if that's what you prefer. It's going to be some good action today. Some of it's going on right now.

NOBILO: Coy Wire, thank you so much and great advice to me there.

And thank you for joining us here on CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Bianca Nobilo in London.

First Move with Julia Chatterley is up for you next.

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