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Thai Parliament Meeting To Choose New Prime Minister; Estonian Prime Minister On Ukraine's NATO Prospects; NATO Leaders Present United Front On Ukraine At Summit; Russian General In Ukraine Says He Was Fired After Accusing Defense Ministry Of Not Providing Sufficient Support; Russian Investigative Committee Releases Video Appearing To Show Former Sub Commander Jogging Before His Killing; Russia's Top Diplomat Lavrov To Meet With China's Wang Yi; Wife Of Huw Edwards Confirms He Is Suspended Anchor. Aired 2-3a ET

Aired July 13, 2023 - 02:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[02:00:35]

ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I'm Rosemary Church.

Just ahead on CNN NEWSROOM, ending on a high note. Smiles and handshakes after a tense 48 hours between NATO and the Ukrainian president in Vilnius. Who got what and where they go from here?

Thailand's democracy faces a critical moment today as parliament votes for a new prime minister.

Plus, coral reefs threatened around the globe as ocean temperatures rise like never before.

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ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN Center. This is CNN NEWSROOM WITH ROSEMARIE CHURCH.

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CHURCH: And thanks for joining us. A crucial NATO summit has wrapped up in Lithuania, with leaders offering Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy security guarantees and assurances. That appeared to have calmed frustration and concerns over Ukraine's future in the alliance.

But still the Ukrainian leader does not have a timeline for NATO membership.

He did though leave the meeting with a promise of unwavering support from allies and moves meant to boost the country's military capability as the war grinds on.

Zelenskyy called the summit a meaningful success for Ukraine and said the two days of talks removed any doubts about whether Ukraine will be in NATO. Following the summit, U.S. President Joe Biden headed to Finland, the final stop of his overseas trip, where he will meet with leaders in the hours ahead.

CNN's Nic Robertson is following developments and joins us now live from London. Good morning to you, Nic.

So, after a tense start, the NATO summit ended in a show of unity and support for Ukraine. What were the big takeaways from this high stake's military alliance meeting?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, I think you can break them down into three things really, and that kind of how the day worked out yesterday. Those bilateral meetings that President Zelenskyy had earlier in the day gave him commitments from nations like Germany, like France, like the U.K. From France, in particular. The cruise missiles from Germany, more attack fighting vehicles and Patriot missile systems, vehicles for those.

So, there were those immediate military commitments, which he needs to fight the war right now, which was one of the things that President Biden actually said to him as well, you know, when they sat down -- the pair sat down together in front of cameras, one of the things that President Biden says, you know, we just need to get through the next few months. So, there was that part of the day where that was done.

Then, there was a whole NATO part with the NATO communique that really did fall short of what Zelenskyy wanted.

But then, there was the G7 part later in the day. And that was the big headline banner, which gave Zelenskyy the cover if you like to say to his people, when he was in the train on the way home, that it actually got something.

This is how he explained that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE (through translator): For the first time, during our independence, we have established a foundation of security on our path to NATO. These are specific security guarantees confirmed by the top seven democracies in the world. We have never had such security framework before at the level of the G7.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: But, that framework, OK, he's still got to work for it. These are all bilateral relations with those G7 nations and some others that may come on board that still need to be hammered out how much money? For how long, What sort of weapon systems? Again, for how long? How much training? Who will provide it and where?

All these vitally important pieces of the security guarantees that are going to come, they still need to be negotiated and put in place. And I think this kind of underlines Zelenskyy's worries going into this, and why he went into it as a sort of a warrior diplomat came out. Slightly meeker, perhaps, more grateful version of the self that he sounded when he went into it.

But there's a sense for Zelenskyy that if you don't guarantee NATO, then, somebody may take that path away from you later or may make the path longer.

Or these security guarantees, and the ultimate member of NATOship (PH) can be used as levers to get you to sign up to a lesser than satisfactory peace with Russia.

[02:05:03]

Let's say he can't push -- or Ukrainian forces can't push Russia all the way out of Ukraine's territory. Then, there may be pressure because political will in NATO countries may fall away for continue support for war in Ukraine. And a couple of years into the future, and you might have to sign up for something lesser.

So, all those secure -- long term security guarantees and the path to NATO, as strong as he can make those, that gives him more time to fight to get what he wants, and is afraid of something less.

CHURCH: All right. Nic Robertson, joining us live from London. Many thanks.

Ukrainians air forces says it down 20 Iranian made drones and two cruise missiles overnight. It is the third night in a row Russia has launched attacks on the Ukrainian capital Kyiv.

Officials say at least one person was killed and two injured as falling debris damage several parts of the city and sparked a fire in an apartment building.

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CHURCH (voice over): Meanwhile, in the east, Ukraine's military is touting progress near Bakhmut. Ukrainian officials say they are advancing on the southern flank of the occupied city.

Ukraine's defense ministry also reports rebuffing Russian assaults all along the eastern front lines in the Donetsk region.

In the south, Ukrainian forces have stepped up missile and long-range artillery attacks on Russian command hubs and ammunition depots.

The Air Force says it has carried out more than 15 group airstrikes against Russian forces in recent days.

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CHURCH: And CNN's Clare Sebastian, joins us now live from London. Good morning to you, Clare. So, what more you learning about the situation on the ground in the war-torn nation? And what's the latest on that senior Russian general who was fired up accusing the defense minister of treachery?

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Rosemary. In terms of the situation on the ground, we're hearing that, that overnight assault included not only drones, but according to the Air Force, two Kalibr cruise missiles fired from the Black Sea, and in an Iskander-M missile, they say, was fired from Crimea.

Now, the Kalibr missiles, they say, was shut down. We don't know yet what happened to that Iskander ballistic missile.

But this was, as you say, a third night of attacks Russia bookending, essentially, the NATO summit with these overnight assaults.

And in terms of the counter offensive, things continued to be inch by inch this morning, the Ukrainian military claiming a few small areas of success along the eastern and southern France.

And as you say very keenly focused now on hitting targets far beyond those frontlines behind enemy lines to try and weaken Russia's reserves its stores of ammunition to make things easier, frankly, for the troops on the front line.

But alongside that, an extraordinary development, the resignation, publicly, it seems, in an audio message posted on the Telegram channel of a Russian member of Parliament Ivan Popov, who was the commander of the 58th Army in the -- on the southern front, really commanding troops who were involved in this critical fight in Zaporizhzhia, has said that he has been relieved of his post, fired essentially, by the ministry of defense for telling the truth about what he says the lack of counter battery combat, the absence of artillery reconnaissance stations, mass deaths.

He then goes on to say, the servicemen of the armed forces of Ukraine could not break through our army from the front. A senior commander, he says, hit us from the rear, "treacherously and vilely decapitating, uses that word, "the army at the most difficult and tense moment."

So, essentially, not only accusing the Russian military leadership of incompetence of not providing enough support and equipment, but of essentially self-sabotaging themselves by firing him. So, like, obviously, this is coming from this audio message posted on his Telegram channel. It has not been confirmed by the Russian ministry of defense at this stage.

But it speaks to this sense of disarray in the Russian Armed Forces underscored, of course, by the Wagner rebellion just a few weeks ago that then reports of purging, cleansing, within the Russian military ranks.

It also speaks, Rosemary, of a very uncomfortable time for the Russian military top brass.

CHURCH: All right, Clare Sebastian, bringing us that live report from London. Many thanks.

Russia's Investigative Committee has released video purporting to show the moments just before a former submarine commander was shot and killed early this week in southern Russia.

His death is one of several mysteries surrounding senior figures linked to Russian forces. CNN's Nick Paton Walsh reports.

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NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice over): For Russian generals, a home once so distant from the front is no longer safe.

Here, former Russian submarine commander Stanislav Rzhitsky runs his usual route at the usual time, but with a new unnoticed companion on a bicycle.

[02:10:08]

Moments later, he was gunned down.

Ukrainian defense intelligence said they had nothing to do with it, but they knew a lot about it. Saying, he had been shot seven times with a Makarov pistol and heavy rain meant no witnesses.

Rzhitsky commanded a Russian submarine accused of many attacks on civilians, Ukraine also said, although his family reportedly denied that.

Ukraine added later, perhaps sarcastically that he had been killed by his own men who refused to kill Ukrainian civilians.

Russia was quick to respond with their own propaganda, claiming to have captured the gunman within hours. Video we can't verify. But it was a crude bit to show they are in control of the fate of their top brass after now weeks of chaos.

Russian media said the killing hinged on a clumsy detail that Rzhitsky had made his daily run public on the running app Strava, which has a long history of accidentally exposing the location of people who don't want to be found, revealing U.S. military bases in Syria and Yemen five years ago.

There are the dead and also the missing.

News Wednesday, too, about this key Putin lieutenant Sergey Surovikin, vanished since he appeared early in the armed Wagner rebellion to plead for it to stop.

A top Russian lawmaker claimed he was, quote, resting, whatever that means.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (text): Are you communicating with Surovikin?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (text): With who? UNIDENTIFIED MALE (text): With Surovikin. There are various rumors about where he is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (text): No, he is resting for now. Not available.

WALSH: Yet, more mystery adding to the bigger one, where is Russia's most prominent military figure, Wagner rebellion leader Yevgeny Prigozhin?

Not seen since the weekend revolt despite Kremlin claims he met with Putin days later and pledged a sudden reversal and continued allegiance.

Dead jogging or still missing, a turbulent time in the top brass.

Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: With the NATO summit over, the foreign ministers from the Association of Southeast Asian Nations, a gathering in Jakarta. In the hours ahead, China's top foreign policy chief is expected to meet on the sidelines separately, with both the Russian foreign minister and the U.S. secretary of state.

CNN's Anna Coren is covering this live for us from Hong Kong. Good to see you, Anna.

So, what's expected to come out of those critical discussions on the sidelines of the ASEAN meeting?

ANNA COREN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Rosemary, we just got word that U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken has landed in Jakarta to attend the ASEAN summit, where, as you say, he'll meet with Chinese diplomat Wang Yi.

Early this evening on the sidelines of these official talks, the Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov, also at ASEAN. He addressed the summit today. He will also be holding talks with Wang.

As we know, China is a close ally of Russia and has been supporting the Kremlin economically and diplomatically throughout the Ukraine war.

Now, Wang was not actually supposed to attend this summit. So, the Chinese foreign minister Qin Gang was scheduled to represent China. However, he has taken ill.

So, Wang, as the foreign policy chief for the CCP, who ranks above Qin, he will be there in his place.

Now, just last month, Rosemary, Blinken met with Wang in Beijing, in what was the first visit to China by U.S. Secretary of State in five years.

The aim, obviously, to reset relations and restart communication between the U.S. and China which has been at an all-time low.

And then, last week, we saw U.S. secretary of state Janet -- sorry, U.S. Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen. She went to Beijing. U.S. climate envoy John Kerry will be flying to China this weekend for talks.

Now, while this flurry of diplomatic activity has certainly raised hopes, you know, and potentially clearing the way for talks between Joe Biden and Xi Jinping, this week's revelations that Chinese hackers have breached e-mail accounts of two dozen organizations, including some U.S. government agencies, specifically, the state department, is certainly cause for alarm.

Microsoft and the White House have confirmed the hack was a spying campaign aimed at sensitive information, as we know, and investigation is underway.

But certainly, you know, Wang and Blinken will have a lot to talk later this evening. Rosemary.

CHURCH: All right. Anna Coren, joining us live from Hong Kong. Many thanks.

All right. Turning to the U.K. now and the wife of BBC anchor, Huw Edwards, has confirmed that Edwards is the BBC presenter who was suspended earlier this week, following allegations of payments for sexually explicit images.

The statement made on behalf of Edwards was released just moments after the London Metropolitan Police said on Wednesday that there was no information to indicate that a criminal offense has been committed.

[02:15:11]

CHURCH: These developments are the latest in a week of British media frenzy, as CNN's Scott McLean reports.

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HUW EDWARDS, PRESENTER, BBC: This is the BBC home service. Here is the news.

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The British Broadcasting Corporation has been covering the news for more than a century. But lately, it is the news.

On Friday, The Sun newspaper printed anonymous allegations accusing an unnamed, but well-known male BBC presenter of paying a young person for explicit images.

The BBC reported that they had suspended the presenter and the U.K., known for its sensational tabloid culture was thrown into a frenzy of speculation over his identity.

Several well-known BBC faces were quick to distance themselves online, and even on air. JEREMY VINE, HOST, BBC: It's his decision, but he needs to come forward now.

MCLEAN: Alongside, questions of who came questions about what? With the young person at the center of the controversy themselves, even disputing the allegations made by their mother to The Sun.

The BBC referred the complaint which it originally received back in May to the London Metropolitan Police.

TIM DAVIE, DIRECTOR-GENERAL, BBC: It is a very difficult and complex situation. And we're trying to calmly and judiciously navigate our way through quite difficult circumstances. Whereas, I said, you've got to balance duty of care issues, previous privacy issues.

MCLEAN: On Wednesday, the Met declared there was no information to indicate that a criminal offense has been committed. The second police force to draw the same conclusion.

Shortly after, the wife of Hugh Edwards, one of Britain's most famous and one of the BBC's highest paid journalists, made a statement on his behalf, confirming the accusations were made about him, and asking for privacy.

Writing, "I am doing this primarily out of concern for his mental wellbeing and to protect our children. Huw is suffering from serious mental health issues.

The events of the last few days have greatly worsened matters, he has suffered another serious episode, and is now receiving in-patient hospital care where he'll stay for the foreseeable future.

Once well enough to do so, he intends to respond to the stories that have been published."

Edwards has been open about mental health struggles in the past. Saying, at one point, things got so bad he couldn't get out of bed.

In the meantime, the BBC now says it will continue its internal investigation. Other less serious allegations have been made against Edwards. Police say they are aware but haven't received specific information and that there is no police action on them at this time.

Questions about the BBCs handling of the complaints will surely not fade from the front pages anytime soon. Now, neither will questions about the veracity of the original reporting in The Sun newspaper.

Scott McLean, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: An unprecedented ocean heatwave is threatening sea life from the U.K. to South Florida.

Coming up, I will speak with a specialist in coral reefs about the dangers the sudden spike in water temperature poses for some of nature's most beautiful and delicate creatures.

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[02:20:35]

CHURCH: A sudden rise in ocean temperatures of Florida is alarming and baffling scientists and putting coral reefs in danger.

Temperatures on the ocean surface around South Florida are rising into the 32 degrees Celsius range or 90-degree Fahrenheit and as high as 97 in some spots. Scientists say it could rapidly lead to bleaching and death of Florida's famed coral reefs.

The water around Florida usually heats up in the summer, but not until later in the season. And scientists say, these temperatures are unprecedented.

Bleaching is already happening in the Florida Keys, where there are 6,000 individual reefs.

And the warming is not just hitting Florida. Parts of the North Atlantic off the U.K. and Ireland are warming as well. Raising worries about marine life.

Liv Williamson is an assistant scientist at the University of Miami's Rosenstiel School of Marine, Atmospheric, and Earth Science. And she joins me now from Miami.

Appreciate you being with us.

LIV WILLIAMSON, ASSISTANT SCIENTIST AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MIAMI: Great to speak with you, Rosemary.

CHURCH: So, concerns are growing over the consequences of overheating oceans. Marine temperatures off the Florida Keys have never been this hot so early in the year. And it's threatening vital coral ecosystems there. And we're also seeing this happen in other parts of the world.

What damage is done to coral reefs and other sea life when ocean temperatures get too high?

WILLIAMSON: Unfortunately, there are just so many different impacts that anomalously high temperatures can have for marine ecosystems.

So, I'll start with coral reefs, they're really evolved to stay within a very narrow band of temperatures. They live in the tropics where things don't usually change that much. But when those temperatures get anomalously high get really, really hot, corals actually often will have a process called coral bleaching.

This involves them losing their symbiotic algae, these really, really important micro-organisms that live in their tissues that help them survive, they help them grow.

But when the temperatures get too hot, they actually lose these algae, which basically cause them to starve and eventually die. This is a process called coral bleaching, it leaves the corals looking stark white. And over the past few decades, coral bleaching events because of these marine heat waves have been increasing in intensity and severity.

In fact, just in 2016, Australia's Great Barrier Reef, the biggest coral reef in the whole world, lost an estimated half of all of its corals because of a massive bleaching event.

So, we're really worried about seeing something like. This repeated here in Florida and in the Caribbean, because of these just crazy extreme high temperatures that we're seeing that are just completely off the charts.

And then, so many other types of marine ecosystems are also going to be affected, you know. Warmer water actually holds less oxygen than colder water. And so, with less oxygen in the water, marine life may not be able to kind of access the oxygen that they need. And they actually may have physiological consequences, it may even lead to fish kills and things like that mortality, which would be just really, really sad to see.

And warmer waters are also less productive. Warm water tends to kind of stay put and cause less ocean mixing. And what we want to see is cooler water with more ocean mixing, that causes lots of nice nutrients to float around, that causes plankton to bloom. And that allows the whole ocean food chain to kind of function. Because lots of things eat that plankton, and then things eat those fish, and so on.

So, all of these heat waves are really, really problematic for many different pieces of sort of the larger ocean system.

CHURCH: And even temperatures in parts of the North Atlantic Ocean are soaring with an exceptional marine heatwave off the coast of the U.K. and Ireland.

What impact will this likely have on marine life in that part of the world?

WILLIAMSON: Well, we're really worried about seeing some of the effects that I was just talking about, you know, having less oxygen in the water, and potentially less productive waters, so, that those sort of the fish and the larger marine life that normally live in those ecosystems, they might not be able to survive and thrive in those regions quite as much as they usually would.

And then, sometimes, toxic algae actually prefer warmer water as well. Things like cyanobacteria and other types of species that cause harmful algal blooms, they tend to prefer this warmer water.

So, another risk is that we could maybe see algal blooms that would deplete the water of oxygen, they would produce toxins that could really harm and even kill local marine life.

[02:25:02]

So just really a big sort of a lack of balance in these ocean systems.

CHURCH: So, what can be done to turn this around and save the coral reefs? What are some things that have been tried, and some things that scientists are thinking might work?

WILLIAMSON: Yes, if we're going to see coral reefs persist into the future and surviving in the face of these marine heat waves. We really need to test and implement intervention strategies to actually increase their heat tolerance, increase their ability to survive these heat waves.

So, I had mentioned that one of the problems with heat and corals is the fact that they have these symbiotic algae that live in their tissues. And they lose those algae in a bleaching event when that heat gets really high.

And so, something that we're doing is actually trying to provide those corals with more heat tolerant types of algae. They're naturally occurring, but they have a higher threshold for bleaching. And that actually allows the corals to survive longer at these high temperatures and remain relatively healthy without bleaching.

And then another strategy is kind of like, how we're able to have breeding programs that select for specific traits that we want. And things like livestock, even in dogs. Were actually able to do manage breeding in corals.

That is, we're able to identify different parent colonies that are genetically more heat tolerant than others, and then breed those together to create new generations of coral that are also more heat tolerant, and that can survive heat waves like the ones that we're seeing. And we're planting those new generations onto the reefs.

CHURCH: All right. Let's hope all of that works. Liv Williamson, thank you so much for joining us. Appreciate it and all the work you're doing on this.

WILLIAMSON: Thanks very much. Thank you.

CHURCH: An opposition candidate has a chance to end the military back rule in Thailand. But new legal challenges and the old guard may stand in his way.

A live report as parliament is now in session.

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CHURCH: Thailand's parliament is meeting to elect a new prime minister and possibly end nine years of a military back rule in the country.

But the main opposition leader is facing last minute legal challenges that threatened to derail his candidacy.

[02:30:03]

And is in for an uphill battle to win over enough lawmakers to support him.

For more Kristie Lu Stout joins me now from Hong Kong. So, Kristie, the Thai Parliament meeting to choose the next Prime Minister of Thailand, who will likely be then?

KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, all eyes are on the leader of the move forward party, but the outcome is still very much uncertain in Thailand Parliamentary debate is underway. The vote will take place in about a few hours from now and the candidate must receive at least 376 votes to win. The process is ongoing, is transparent, in fact, it's being broadcast live via Parliament T.V.

Out earlier in the week, we heard from the Thai Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha, he took power nine years ago in a coup, and he said that he is not seeking reelection and will retire from politics. It was just a few months ago in May, his military back party was defeated by the opposition in a general election. So, all eyes again on the leader of the progressive Move Forward Party, Pita Limjaroenrat, he is a 42- year-old Harvard grad. He is a former executive of the Southeast Asian Super App Grab.

And to become premier he needs around 60 more votes from rival parties or conservative Senators and that is going to be a challenge given his party's progressive policies on Monarchy and military reform. And the party tells CNN that they are confident that Pita will secure enough votes, but Pita also faces a potential legal setback, he could be disqualified as a lawmaker over shareholding issue and the Thai court will review that case next week.

Now, if Pita fails, another party in the coalition called Pure Thai will nominate its own candidate. Now, after a Prime Minister is elected, a government can be formed luckily by early August but if no candidate wins a majority of the first vote, more candidates can be nominated, and lawmakers will just keep on holding votes until that majority is reached. Rosemary.

CHURCH: A quite a process. Kristie Lu Stout, joining us live from Hong Kong, many thanks. And we'll be right back for more (INAUDIBLE).

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CHURCH: Former British Prime Minister Boris Johnson is urging the U.S. not to grow weary of Ukraine's grinding battle against Russia. He tells CNN Kyiv's victory over Moscow is imperative. And says America's continued support must include a steady flow of weapons. He warned that one of Kyiv's biggest challenges in the conflict aside from the Russian army is what he called Ukraine fatigue from the rest of the world.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BORIS JOHNSON, FORMER BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: I think it's a very, very important that we established that Ukraine is on the path now to NATO membership. There can be no possible excuse or reason to keep faffy around and underlaying. The last remaining objection you remember was that it was going to be provocative to Vladimir Putin. Well, we've seen of what happens when you don't have Ukraine in NATO, or you provoked the worst war in Europe for 80 years. You need -- you need Ukrainian for certainty, for stability, and for the security not just of Ukraine, but of Russia as well. So, everybody knows where the boundaries are. And everybody knows who's protecting who.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[02:35:20]

CHURCH: Estonia's Prime Minister believes Ukraine will become a NATO member sooner or later. She spoke with CNN, during the Summit in Lithuania on Wednesday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAJA KALLAS, ESTONIAN PRIME MINISTER: We can draft Ukraine into NATO. We have to back the words with concrete deeds. And that is actually behind those debates that we had yesterday and also today. Meaning that all the allies, the big ones, the small ones are taking this very, very seriously. And today, everybody emphasize that Ukraine's place is in NATO. The question is not if, but when it will happen. And we have agreed practical steps and pathway to get there. So, if those conditions are met, the opportunity window opens. When the war ends, then we can admit Ukraine into NATO.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: Joining us now with his perspective is Andriy Zagorodnyuk, a Former Ukrainian Defense Minister and Former Adviser to the Ukrainian Government. He is a Distinguished Fellow at the Atlantic Council and serves as the Chairman of the Security Think Tank Center for defense strategies. Thank you so much for being with us.

ANDRIY ZAGORODNYUK, FORMER DEFENSE MINISTER OF UKRAINE: Thank you.

CHURCH: So, after a difficult and tense start, the NATO Summit ended with a strong sense of unity. But President Zelenskyy still didn't get the timeline for NATO membership that he asked for. Though, he did get historic security commitments for Ukraine for now and, of course, the future. Should that be enough at this juncture until the war is over?

ZAGORODNYUK: Of course, Ukraine wants membership in NATO. And that's understood because only membership in NATO can secure the architecture in Eastern Europe. Because without the massive presence of NATO, including Ukraine, there will always be some instability, and there will always be some risks. So, that's why as it ends can many countries, particularly Eastern European countries are pushing for Ukrainian membership.

However, until that happens, we need to have some framework, which will decrease chances and probably deny Putin an ability to launch new campaigns. And that's why this second day decisions about the starting of this security framework is obviously, is a positive development for sure. Just say that it completely replaces NATO membership now, we cannot say that, but it's certainly a very, very good deal. CHURCH: Right. And you accept that the NATO couldn't take Ukraine on board at this juncture, because that would be basically launching itself into war.

ZAGORODNYUK: Very few Nations and very few experts expected immediate membership like during this summit, I don't think it was possible. And even not because of the joining into the new wars as a side of the conflict. Because actually, Article Five doesn't say that. But it's more about the understanding that in this case, countries that large countries supporting Ukraine will have to commit to a massive investments which they even can calculate.

So, yes, that was unrealistic to expect. I don't think politically, anyone expected. However, what we could have expected is that a more specific, more concrete plan. How to -- how to reach membership. And that wasn't done the plan, which was outlined in communicate is very vague but -- so that's the results for today.

CHURCH: Right. And the United Kingdom and others complained about Ukraine not showing enough gratitude for the help already offered by the U.S. and its allies. Thus, President Zelenskyy need to be more mindful of this, despite his clear concern, of course, for his war- torn nation. But is there a wary here that people could get a little bit of fatigue for Ukraine as Boris Johnson has suggested, if there's not more gratitude shown?

ZAGORODNYUK: Well, to be honest, I think we show him a lot of gratitude every day to our partners. And particularly, those who work with military and ministers of defense, they know that. What happened was a statement from U.K. Secretary of Defense. But if you remember, there was immediate statement from the P.M. from Prime Minister who said that Ukraine actually shows a lot of gratitude on a sort of absolutely regular basis.

Particularly, he remembered the speech of the speech of Zelenskyy in the -- in the U.K. Parliament, where he was extremely positive about cooperation and very grateful for support. There are discussions and there are like a lot of -- a lot of pressure which Ukraine sometimes applies to sample partners in order to decide on supplies.

[02:40:07]

And we have to say that F-16's decision, like Tactical Aviation decision was made after a substantial pressure. Decision to provide tax was made after substantial pressure. So, actually collaboration between partners and Ukraine is sometimes has this sort of some kind of a persistent advocacy, it's so to speak.

CHURCH: Right.

ZAGORODNYUK: And yes, that's perhaps what was commented.

CHURCH: President Biden says Ukraine's President Zelenskyy resilience and resolve has been a role for the whole world to see. And Mr. Zelenskyy, thanked the U.S. President for standing shoulder to shoulder with Ukraine since the start of the war. So, the Summit ended well, but has enraged Russia, not surprisingly, which warned of negative consequences to the west for offering security guarantees to Ukraine. What might that mean do you think? Do you think the Green Deal is in jeopardy here? Is that what they're suggesting here or something?

ZAGORODNYUK: Green Deal, Russia needs Green Deal. So, if Russia didn't need Green Deal, it would never have happened. So, basically, everything which Russia is doing right now is at their maximum. I don't think they have much of the escalation potential. But also, of course, they were frustrated. They saw the massive support to Ukraine. They have seen the reiteration of the fact that Ukraine's future is a NATO. They saw the enlargement of NATO with Sweden and Finland.

So, for sure, whatever the thing was they were doing is failing right now I mean, Russia is doing is failing right now. So, for sure they're frustrated. But also, Russia is expected to outwait West support -- Western support. They thought that they have more resources, they have some patience, they don't have democracy. So, essentially, Putin could stay whatever he wants, in how long he wants in Russia. And basically, they thought that long-term they would win. But that statement about the long-term guarantees and long-term support obviously destroys their strategy as well. And that's why perhaps they were upset. But that's their problem, to be honest.

CHURCH: OK. Andriy Zagorodnyuk, thank you so much for joining us, appreciate it. Well, we could be just minutes away from the first double strike of screenwriters and actors in Hollywood in more than 60 years. SAG-AFTRA, the union representing 160,000 actors, performers and other artists has until the top of the hour, to reach a new collective bargaining deal with the major studios and streaming services before they've walked off the job.

With the writer's strike now more than two months on the SAG-AFTRA's demands are largely similar, better pay residuals, benefits and addressing concerns over artificial intelligence. But this new strike, if it happens, would bring many Hollywood A-listers into the mix who have already committed to the cause. We'll keep a close eye on that. I'm Rosemary Church, "WORLD SPORT" is next. I'll be back in 15 minutes with more CNN NEWSROOM. Do stick around.

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