Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Long Heat Wave Set To Intensify This Weekend Across The U.S.; Vermont Braces For Another Round Of Heavy Rain; New York Architect Charged In Decade-Old Serial Killings; House Passes Divisive Pentagon Spending Bill; William Cohen, Former Defense Secretary, Discusses House Passing Divisive Defense Spending Bill & Biden Offering Assurance U.S. Is Committed To NATO; Feds Send Subpoenas To 7 Key Battleground States; Secretary Of State Adrian Fontes (D-Arizona) Discusses Subpoena In Trump Election Interference Probe & Former DHS Official Raising Red Flag About Voting Security; Biologists Bring Diversity To Shark Science. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired July 15, 2023 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:29]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM. And I'm Jim Acosta here in Washington, and we begin today with extreme heat that is oppressive, stifling and even life-threatening.

More than 85 million Americans are under heat alerts today and for days to come as the stubborn heat dome persists in the southwest. Cities like Phoenix are roasting in the intense heat. High temperatures there have hit at least 110 degrees some 16 days in a row now and are expected to continue that streak until at least Wednesday.

In Death Valley, California, living up to its name, it could top 130 degrees tomorrow. On its Web site the National Park Service warns Death Valley visitors to carry plenty of water and not to hike after 10:00 a.m.

We have team coverage covering all of this right now. CNN's Rafael Romo is in Las Vegas. CNN's Mike Valerio is in Valencia, California, north of Los Angeles.

Mike, let's start with you. It's still just in the double digits from what I can understand where you are right now, but temperatures in Southern California are actually expected to get much worse in the next couple of days. What can you tell us?

MIKE VALERIO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Jim. Well, where we are standing right here in the Santa Clarita Valley, it's 99 degrees. So we are very close, approaching the high predicted for today of 106 degrees.

But, Jim, I'll tell you. A profusion of families coming in the gates here, so happy even though it is incredibly hot. To my right, we got a lazy river, tons of tubing going on. And you could see, you know, as we tilt up, just a couple, two of the two dozen lifeguards here at Six Flags has to open on a day like today with an emergency heat plan because God forbid if somebody succumbs to the heat elements, they need to have a plan in place with more than two dozen lifeguards.

About a dozen first responders, EMTs spread between two first-aid stations from the theme park over to my lefthand shoulder and the water park that you see in the background here. So we spoke to Six Flags and Hurricane Harbor where we're standing right now about their plan. What they have to do to prepare. Here's what they told us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEX FRENCH, SIX FLAGS MAGIC MOUNTAIN AND HURRICANE HARBOR: We do have a sheriff's station on site for different emergencies and things like that that take place. But our staff is overly prepared to make sure everyone is staying cool. We have our medical trained staff like I said on site. We do have an ambulance. We do have very great relationships with local fire department, EMTs, that can come in, and we can call them at any given notice and they do come on site to help if there's anything that is more drastic.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VALERIO: So certainly glad to report no injuries at this hour here in the Santa Clarita Valley, at Hurricane Harbor.

Jim, though, we are also watching the possibility for fire danger. It's starting to become this time of year in Riverside County, about 90 miles southeast of here. We had not one but three wildfires spark yesterday. And the good news as we look at the pictures of the glowing embers from overnight continuing into the early morning hours today.

There were evacuation orders. Some of which have been rolled back. Very few population centers have been threatened by this first major round of wildfires that threatened Southern Californians. So certainly that is good news. In the meantime, we're going to try to keep cool here again as we are headed to 106 degrees in the Santa Clarita Valley -- Jim.

ACOSTA: All right. Just brutal heat out there. Stay safe. Mike Valerio, thank you.

Now to Las Vegas and our Rafael Romo.

Rafael, the city's official all-time record of 117 degrees could be approached or tied very soon. How are people coping?

RAFAEL ROMO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, by trying to stay indoors as much as they can, Jim. And just a moment ago, Mike Valerio was talking about a profusion of families trying to escape the heat. Take a look at what's happening here at the Fashion Show Las Vegas, the largest mall in the state of Nevada. Lots of families coming here trying to stay cool, stay in a safe environment, because it's very, very hot.

Earlier we were outside. Lots of people outside. Many tourists on the streets. All of those people, a big chunk of them have moved inside and now are here in places like this.

Now you were mentioning about the temperature and that's the question in the minds of many people here in Las Vegas. Will the city tie the all-time record of 117 degrees? They did it once before in 2021. It's an open question if it's going to happen between Sunday and Monday.

[16:05:01]

I had an opportunity to talk earlier with a tourist from Canada visiting Las Vegas with her daughter. And she told us that she found the right mix of indoor-outdoor recreation to stay safe in this oppressive heat. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SUSAN NEWSTAETER, CANADIAN TOURIST: Went through all the shops, in and out. Just walk outside for a bit. Get too hot, go in, cool down and repeat.

ROMO: It sounds like a great plan.

NEWSTAETER: Thank you. It was a spur of the moment trip and just let's go. And she was monitoring the temperature on her phone. She's like, Mom, it's going to be hot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMO: And now authorities are telling people to try to stay safe in this oppressive heat, Jim. There were 152 deaths recorded between April and October last year. So far this year local officials say the death toll is seven.

Jim, back to you.

ACOSTA: All right. Rafael Romo, it's very important that people heed these heat warnings and play it as safe as possible. Thanks very much, Rafael. We appreciate it.

From fiery temperatures to nonstop rain. New downpours and flooding concerns are affecting an area already devastated by both. Dozens of homes in Vermont were evacuated overnight and several water rescues took place when the Otter Creek River overflowed its banks. The state is bracing for more rain and flooding expected tomorrow morning. This after several waves of storms over the past several days. You can see some of the footage right there just unbelievable stuff.

Jennifer Morrison, Vermont's public safety commissioner, joins me now.

Jennifer, thank you very much for being with us. How bad is the situation right now and how serious is this threat of another round of heavy rain?

JENNIFER MORRISON, COMMISSIONER, VERMONT DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY: Yes, thanks, Jim. If you were sitting where I'm sitting today in Vermont and you'd look outside and see a sunny sky and blue sky, you might be tricked into thinking that everything is OK. But we're actually in day six of a protracted weather emergency. Many of our communities have been absolutely devastated by the flooding. Last night when some parts of the state were sunny and looked calm, on

the Eastern Seaboard in the middle very area around the Otter Creek, as you mentioned. We had landslides, we had swift water rescues, rescuing people out of cars that had washed off the roadway. We had a major water main issue disruption in the city of Rutland that caused approximately 75 people to have to be evacuated.

So these little cells have continued to hammer us even as the major flooding event of Monday and Tuesday is a little bit fading into the background. That being said, we've already started our recovery efforts. There's a lot of activity on the ground today. But we're very aware that between 6:00 a.m. tomorrow and 6:00 a.m. Monday, that there are some very alarming weather predictions that could see another one to two inches in all areas.

Of course, we have no capacity. Everything is fully saturated. And in localized areas inside storm cells we could see up to three to four inches of rain. So we're preparing for the next 24 hours, for the next 36 hours. And we'll get right back into recovery as soon as we're in the clear.

ACOSTA: Yes. And you've got to warn people not to take these things lightly when they happen. When is the last time something like this happened up in Vermont? I just don't think of Vermont as having these kinds of weather emergencies like this but maybe I'm wrong about that, Commissioner. Does this happen very often? Or is this very unusual?

MORRISON: This is very unusual. We had, of course, the historic flooding in Tropical Storm Irene which was a 12-hour duration. But we have not had flooding like this in almost 100 years. I can tell you that many of the engineering changes and planning changes we made in the wake of Irene have paid dividends, and we have not seen the massive destruction of bridges and other infrastructure that was improved upon as we rebuilt after Irene.

So this is a very unusual event. Ice and snow are usually our biggest threats. But this one has been devastating and all across the state, we have neighbors who are really hurting and have lost everything.

ACOSTA: And President Biden issued a federal disaster declaration for the area yesterday after all the heavy rain and flooding. Are you getting the help that you need from the federal government?

MORRISON: We do have numerous FEMA assets on the ground. We're also being supported by the American Red Cross and the National Guard, the Vermont National Guard. So right now, we are in a very good space. But we know that as recovery efforts ramp up, it is going to grow. Our needs are going to grow once we get an accurate assessment of all of the damage and all of the needs within the many communities that have been so hard hit. So maybe we'll check back in next week and I can let you know if we're getting what we need.

[16:10:01]

But, you know, I want to say, Jim, that I'm really confident in our ability to bounce back. We have the greatest governor in the country and a strong leadership team. And we're going to be OK. We just need to get through the next few days and turn our attention to recovery.

ACOSTA: All right. Well, fingers crossed. Really hope this next round is not as bad, not as destructive as what you've seen over the last week.

Vermont Public Safety Commissioner Jennifer Morrison, thank you very much for your time. We appreciate it. Best of luck to you.

MORRISON: Thank you very much, sir.

ACOSTA: Thank you.

All right, coming up, new details on the major arrest in a series of cold case murders that frustrated New York investigators for over a decade. Why concerns about leaks led authorities to move in on their suspect.

Plus, the GOP senator blocking Pentagon promotions over abortion policy says he will not back down. This as the defense spending bill clears the House, a chockful of Republican amendments pertaining to culture war issues. The impact all this is having on the military. We'll talk about that.

And sources say federal prosecutors have interviewed more secretaries of state as part of a special counsel investigation into the 2020 election. Where the investigation stands now.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:15:19]

ACOSTA: Now the latest on a major arrest in a series of cold case murders that puzzled New York investigators for over a decade. 59- year-old, the Manhattan architect Rex Heuermann is now in custody charged in connection with three of the so-called Gilgo Four Murders. He is a prime suspect and a fourth. The Gilgo Beach murder cases date back to 2010 when authorities discovered at least 10 sets of human remains along the Long Island shorelines.

CNN's Polo Sandoval joins me now from New York.

Polo, some pretty remarkable detective work led to this arrest. How were they able to close in on it?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it all boils down to pizza crust that had been discarded in a garbage can here in midtown. That's according to investigators that moved in in January. As the surveillance team was following their suspect here, noticed that he had discarded a pizza crust in the garbage. They moved in. And that's what provided investigators with some key DNA that they were able to compare with some DNA that was taken at the scene of one of the bodies that was located between 2007 and 2010.

So this is a case that goes back way beyond this year. But investigators are saying that even though there wasn't sort of any public updates that that was on purpose. This investigation was pressing forward according to the Suffolk County Police Department, deputy commissioner, Anthony Carter who I had an opportunity to speak to earlier this afternoon told me that they never slowed down.

In fact they kept information from the public on purpose. They knew that Heuermann was, at least according to them, was monitoring for headlines and they feared that at any hint of a development, that they could potentially lose him. So that's why, not only because of that, but because of public safety that's when investigators moved in.

But early today I also had the opportunity to speak to Suffolk County district attorney Ray Tierney. And I asked him exactly what they believe their suspect may have been doing over the last decade or so.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAY TIERNEY, SUFFOLK COUNTY, NEW YORK DISTRICT ATTORNEY: The murders were between 2007 and 2010. The bodies were discovered in December 2010. And again, you know, once we started once in March of 2022, when we focused on him, you know, there was no evidence of any -- other than patronizing prostitutes, any criminal activity. But certainly the pattern of life that we saw was concerning.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANDOVAL: And so that's key according to the district attorney, though they did not believe that he was already about to potentially carry out another murder. According to the allegations, they still were afraid in terms of public safety here. So that's why they moved in. Finally we should mention from the Rex Heuermann's defense, he pleaded not guilty and maintains his innocence through his attorney -- Jim.

ACOSTA: OK. Polo Sandoval, thank you.

And with more on all of this, let's talk about this with Craig Caine. He is a retired U.S. Marshal. He was on the Long Island Regional Fugitive Task Force.

Craig, good to see you. Thanks very much for joining us. You live in this community, what I understand, where these murders took place. How relieved is the community out there? The suspect has been caught. It's kind of incredible that this has been going on for more than a decade now.

CRAIG CAINE, RETIRED U.S. MARSHAL: Hi, Jim. Good to be here. Yes. I live about a mile and a quarter from that area. And, you know, it's kind of spooky when somebody from your own neighborhood, so to speak, is connected to a hideous crime like this that has been going on for years, and even more so that it's a serial killer. So yes, it's a little unnerving to have somebody like that in your backyard all these years and not even know about it.

ACOSTA: And this task force allegedly found hundreds of searches relating to the Gilgo Beach murders on Heuermann's computer, as well as torture porn, so-called torture porn. Authorities say he also compulsively searched for pictures of the victims and their relatives in order to locate them. What does that tell you about this case?

CAINE: Well, actually, the investigators, the task force that Ray Tierney put together, they did an outstanding job. I know Ray from when he was a former federal prosecutor around Long Island in the Eastern District. And if anybody was going to get this guy, it would have been him. You know, very tenacious. The main thing, there was a lot of evidence that was gathered in the early stages.

[16:20:05]

It's just a matter of putting all this evidence together. Especially when you're doing phone work, as we call it. It's very tedious, it's very time consuming. You have to connect all the dots and subpoenas, phone companies, different electronic platforms are involved. So for Ray to put a fresh set of eyes on this case, and that's what a good investigative team would do when there's a cold case.

You need a fresh set of eyes to look at all the evidence after that was previously gathered. See what might have been missed and then string it all together with new evidence. Whether it be direct evidence or circumstantial evidence so you could tie a suspect to what you have gathered during the investigation, and Ray did that.

ACOSTA: And this has been going on for so long. This investigation of this cold case have lasted such a long time. Did you ever think it would get solved?

CAINE: You know, honestly, most of them do get solved. I mean, it could be 20 years down the road, 30 years. You know, with the advent and the evolving technology that comes out almost daily with DNA testing and the electronic platforms that we have available to us. You know, it's basically a crap shoot, you know.

ACOSTA: Yes. No question about it. Let me ask you about this manhunt for the escaped murder suspect Michael Burham who's been on the run in Pennsylvania for over a week. I mean, they've obviously been chasing it for some time now. He's been recently spotted on a doorbell camera and appears to be injured. Is it just a matter of time now you think until he's picked up? What do you think?

CAINE: Well, you know, Jim, it works both ways. OK. You know, he has to sleep with one eye open, OK? You know, he probably knows it's a matter of time. But there's four different tasks to this whole thing. One is he's very good at what he does and he found himself a nice little spot somewhere in the woods that's very secluded. Possibly somebody is delivering him provisions or leaving it in a certain spot for him to retrieve it.

The other thing is somebody is harboring him. He's in a house. He's in somebody's maybe a vacant house. The third thing is, he might not even be in the area anymore. Somebody could have gotten him out of there. That he could be in Ohio for all we know by now. And the last thing is, you know, which doesn't seem likely with this but it has in past investigations that I did, the guy whacked himself. You know, he killed himself in the woods somewhere.

ACOSTA: All right.

CAINE: So, you know, it's been a lot of work. You know? A lot of work.

ACOSTA: Absolutely. And that search continues.

Craig Craine, thanks very much for those insights. Really appreciate it.

CAINE: Thanks, Jim. Have a good day.

ACOSTA: All right. You too.

In the meantime, a sweeping defense policy bill passes the House with several hot button social issues attached to it. A former Defense secretary talks about the fallout of mixing politics -- this kind of politics with military policy. That's next.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:27:35]

ACOSTA: The House of Representatives narrowly passed a critical defense bill Friday mostly along party lines, that restricts Pentagon policies on abortion, transgender care and diversity. 219-210 vote came after a heated debate with all but four Democrats opposing passage. Their parties' leadership calls the amendments radical and extreme. The massive national defense bill now heads to the Democratic controlled Senate.

The defense bill is the latest in the culture wars causing deep divisions across the U.S. Far-right Republicans argue that their add- ons to this bill will help rid the military of what they describe as, quote, "wokeness." The Democrats say Republicans are simply forcing an extremist ideology on American society.

And joining us now to talk about this is former Republican Senator Bill Cohen who also served as the Defense secretary under President Bill Clinton.

Secretary Cohen, thanks so much. Let me get your reactions to some of these amendments that were included in this bill. I'm sure you've gone over them. I guess your thoughts on what might happen to this big defense authorization bill if it gets put into the cultural war meat grinder here in Washington.

WILLIAM COHEN, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY: Well, I think you described it right, Jim. It will become a meat grinder. I think most people anticipate the Senate will either reject the amendments or modify them, water them down to the point where the bill can go back to the House and those on the radical right can say that, well, we don't like it but we'll support it because we are, after all, trying to make sure that we fund our military.

So it's dragging the military into the cultural wars. I have to question on motivation to those who are raising issues. But, you know, I think the way to handle this is to bring the Joint Chiefs to Congress, to the Senate Armed Services, House Armed Services. They can tell us what's going on. Are we ready or not? Are these programs of diversity and inclusion something that we treasure in those country above equality and opportunity, are they undermining our readiness?

And if so say it on the record for us. Otherwise we're just whipping back and forth between what the Republicans are saying and what the Democrats are opposing. It's not the way to treat our men and women who are serving our country and putting their lives on the line.

ACOSTA: And what do you have to say to some of these far-right Republicans who claim that the U.S. Military has a, quote, "wokeness problem"?

[16:30:00]

COHEN: Well, I'd ask them -- I haven't asked them. I'm asking you what is wokeness? What does it mean? I said earlier today that it was Harry Truman -- President Truman, was he Woke when he said we can no longer tolerate and accept the segregation of our military?

That black men and women have an absolute equal right to serve in our military and serve together and not segregated? We don't want black people to drink at different water fountains, stay in different hotel rooms, et cetera. So he decided we had to integrate.

Was that a Woke decision or a reality decision based upon our principles. Equal justice under the law, equal opportunity under the law. No discrimination based on race, ethnicity, et cetera.

So it depends. Gays in the military? Did that break our military? Or was it something that was coming in terms of our society saying they can work and serve in the military, the military can handle this.

And so when you go to the issues -- women in combat. Women in combat on the ground, in the air, flying high-performance aircraft. Was that Wokeness to say they should be able to fly these aircraft? Because they have the brain power and the capability to handle this kind of thing?

So Wokeness, they're talking about gender issues. It's a legitimate issue to consider. But again, call the military. Is the military able to handle this? Or are we creating a problem for the military, undermining the readiness that we have today.

I think we need to have that testimony where people say, I just personally am opposed to any progressive steps taken on behalf of individuals. I think that would be something that should be required.

ACOSTA: And this bill follows moves made by Republican Senator Tommy Tuberville who has been blocking the military promotions and nominations over his objections to the Defense Department's reproductive health policies.

I did want to get your reaction to that. And what is your take on what he's been doing, and how much longer can this go on?

COHEN: I think he's undermining our readiness. I think he's undermining the military.

In the military, it's a well-organized procedure that we have. We bring new people in. We educate, train, and equip them. Then you have a process over years where you go on and you go on and then you go up.

The older members are retiring. They're moving on. We need to have replacements. If you don't have those replacements in play, you're undermining our ability to wage effective combat should that ever happen.

I think it is a very anti-military position taken by a very pro- military state. The new Senator represents a very strong, pro-military state. This is not pro-military. This is undermining our military.

So I think the Senate has an obligation to call out on this something that is a courtesy to put a hold on a single individual.

But here we have a hold on at least 200, 300 nominations coming up. We don't have a Marine commandant. We don't have commanders for our Fifth Fleet, Seventh Fleet, and so forth.

This is harming our ability to have people in charge who have authority and have respect commanding our forces.

In my judgment, it is anti-military, anti-readiness, anti-family. Because the spouses now can't move on. They can't put their children in schools. They have to stay in place. They can't quit their jobs when their spouses are transferred to another destination.

All of this is undermining, I think, the morale of our military and it's totally unnecessary.

You can make the point that you're pro-life or pro-anti-choice, but don't put the military under the anvil here and weigh them down with questions about where they're going, if they're going, or are they just getting out?

ACOSTA: Yes.

COHEN: Can we afford to have that kind of dampening of morale. I don't think so.

ACOSTA: And you were the defense secretary under President Clinton. Any advice to the current defense secretary on how to handle something like this or do you have to sit back and let the political process sort itself out?

When you were defense secretary, did you have to deal with this kind of issue where the Senate just sort of took everything to a halt over a particular issue.

COHEN: I never had to confront an issue like this. I don't know if the reports are correct. But what I read was that Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin, who is

coming back from a very successful trip to the NATO summit meeting, and President Biden's success, coming back, and I read that his phone calls can't be taken because the Senator is too busy.

I don't know if that's true but I've never had a situation where a Senator would say, I can't talk to the secretary of defense and I'll only talk maybe if the president calls me.

[16:35:04]

I mean, I don't know. That's pretty strong for a freshman Senator.

ACOSTA: And you just mentioned the NATO summit. President Biden has returned to the U.S. from Europe where he welcomed Sweden into NATO, declared, had a speech at Helsinki that Putin has already lost the war.

How significant was this trip? And where do you see things moving forward with respect to how the U.S. is trying to help the Ukrainians in that war against Russian aggression?

COHEN: I don't think Putin has lost the war. He's losing it. What I worry equally about is that we lose it over here.

That you have people in the United States Congress who support Putin, who support Russia, which is staggering to me to think that this is the party of Ronald Reagan who said, "Tear down this wall," and here are people saying let's go with Putin.

Zelenskyy, President Zelenskyy, is fighting for freedom and the lives of his people. He is fighting for us as well.

To the extent that Putin is able to change the rules of law, by breaking them, and then say, well, we'll pull the plug out from Ukraine next year, I would worry if I were President Zelenskyy.

That's why he wants a commitment now on NATO membership because he's worried that you have people in the House and maybe some of the Senate who say they want to cut off funding because of some act of charity on our part. This is not charity.

(CROSSTALK)

ACOSTA: You would push for Ukraine to be -- you would push for Ukraine to be part of NATO --

(CROSSTALK)

ACOSTA: -- as soon as possible?

COHEN: As soon as possible. There are steps they have to climb, but I would say the sooner the better.

Because they are -- they're going to contribute to the security. President Biden has actually enlarged NATO through his leadership as opposed to the previous president who tried to basically disband it.

ACOSTA: All right, Secretary Cohen, great to talk to you as always. Thank you so much.

COHEN: Thanks. Thank you, Jim.

ACOSTA: Much appreciated.

All right, new developments in the investigation into Donald Trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election. Secretaries of state in two key states interviewed by the special counsel. We'll discuss with the secretary of state in Arizona whose office also got a subpoena in this investigation.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:41:24]

ACOSTA: Federal prosecutors are focusing on seven battleground states in their investigation of President Trump and his allies' efforts to overturn the 2020 election.

CNN this week confirmed the secretaries of state for both Pennsylvania and New Mexico were interviewed. They joined Michigan and Georgia already on the list of states where interviews were conducted.

Subpoenas were also sent to local and state officials in Nevada, Wisconsin and Arizona.

And the Arizona secretary of state, Adrian Fontes, joins me now.

Mr. Secretary, thank you so much for being with us.

Your office has already complied with the subpoena.

ADRIAN FONTES, (D), ARIZONA SECRETARY OF STATE: Thank you.

ACOSTA: What are federal investigators looking for? What can you tell us about -- I guess it is about these alternate electors that some of these state Republican Parties were trying to cook up.

FONTES: Well, specifically, in Arizona, there were two pieces of litigation. One by the Trump campaign and one by the former Arizona Republican Party chair.

Those cases really encompassed a whole host of communication between a bunch of folks. It is the discovery in those cases that the Department of Justice was looking for in December and in May. All of that has been turned over.

But it is so voluminous that even our general counsel here in the office is still redacting some of it to comply with a public records request.

Sorry, we lost our lights here.

ACOSTA: There we go. It's back.

And, Mr. Secretary, you also said that the May subpoena was one of two received by your office. Feel free to correct me if I've got any of this wrong. You got the first one in late December.

What was that looking for? Do you have any sense as to how this investigation might be taking place when it comes to what was taking place at the state level?

FONTES: Well, so again, these are two different pieces of litigation. And the subpoenas covered essentially the same subject matter.

One of the subpoenas was to the office proper. That was back in December. And in May, the subpoena for essentially the same subject matter was sent to a law firm, an outside counsel firm that was representing this office for the totality of the discovery in that case.

Those documents may not have been held officially here in the office. So both the official side and the outside counsel side have since complied completely with these subpoenas.

And we're as interested as you are in what they're looking for. Because there's a whole host of information, conversations, a lot of discovery that was in all those documents. It's quite a bit of information.

ACOSTA: And let me ask you this. Have you gotten any follow-ups from the special counsel's office? Have they reached out in any capacity in recent weeks about this?

FONTES: We haven't received any follow-ups. But if you look at the pattern of information being collected across the United States of America, and what sorts of information is being sought out, the variety of states that you've mention a minute ago, you can really see a solid pattern being built.

And that is, who was saying what to whom? When was that being said? Those could apply to all kinds of different individual bits of the investigation, like the fake electors, like the insurrection, like the attempt to overturn the vote prior to the insurrection.

Or it could be part of one much bigger. Some folks are saying possibly a RICO investigation. As a performer prosecutor, I won't speculate on any of that stuff. But all of those things are possible.

But if you look to what they are looking for, and what those subpoenas ask for, it's a -- it could be quite a thing.

[16:45:03]

ACOSTA: Well, and let me ask you, if you can help us take a step back and look at this from a 30,000-foot perspective. For the folks who are watching at home and wondering, OK, how is it that these states apply or have any kind of -- I guess how they matter to the special counsel's overall investigation.

What took place in Arizona that concerned you? And what part of that might be of interest to the special counsel as this investigation moves forward?

FONTES: So in the two cases that I mentioned, what you have is a whole host of what is called discovery. When you have a trial, there's a whole boat load of evidence that gets admitted into the trial.

But that's not always all of what is discoverable. So you've got, like, one through 100 documents. Here, there's a heck of a lot more. But for example, one through 100 documents. You may only get, like, 17 or 20 of them that are admissible in court and used in the trial.

It's all of the rest of that other stuff, all of the other interviews, all of the other depositions and all of the parts of the depositions, all the documents, the correspondence that might be pertinent to some other piece of the puzzle.

You know, just think about -- when I was a prosecutor, we did a lot of white-collar stuff. You would have to connect A and B over here and to C and D over there. And sometimes you needed the entire scope of information to be able to tie things together.

It sounds to me like the Department of Justice is being very, very thorough and they are looking at all possible angles in whatever investigation these subpoenas were pertinent to.

Whatever part of perhaps some much greater conspiracy, some of the other individual cases, perhaps. We don't know for sure and they don't have any reason to tell us.

But there is a whole host of information they have now. And it could very easily tie in with what is happening in some of the other states.

If they, for example -- if folks were asking consistently for the same thing from state to state to state, that might help prove a point in an investigation or a prosecution.

So we can only really speculate as to the why. I'm not big on speculation. And I want to be as circumspect as I want, as I can be. I don't want to be a fly in the ointment to the overall investigation.

(CROSSTALK)

FONTES: But it's important that folks realize, this is a big, big investigation. There is a lot going on. And every little piece of the puzzle may very well be pertinent.

ACOSTA: Let me ask you this. A former official in charge of election security at the Department of Homeland Security is raising this red flag again about efforts to try to overturn future elections.

Here's what Chris Krebs -- you know who he is. He was on with CNN's Jim Sciutto earlier this week. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS KREBS, FORMER SENIOR OFFICIAL, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY: Jim, I have to say the hair on the back of my neck stood up there for a minute thinking about 2020 and what we have in store for us in 2024.

Look, any software has potential vulnerabilities within it. It is just a matter of time, frankly, before a bad guy finds it, or a good guy finds it and patches it, or the bad guy finds it and exploits it.

The key here, particularly for elections in the United States, is the concept of software independence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Yes, he's talking about software that might be used in upcoming elections and how this might be vulnerable. Krebs, as you know, was fired by Trump for going against the former president his narrative about the 2020 election and so on.

What are your concerns heading into 2024?

FONTES: Well, these are the things we've been thinking about and working on for a long time.

When I was the Maricopa County recorder, I was the first election official to appoint an election security -- elections information security officer specifically. We've got that now for the state of Arizona. And a lot of other jurisdictions have done so since.

We are somewhat vulnerable, just like any other electronic system. And we have to pay close attention.

Are his concerns real? Yes. Are they our concerns as well? Absolutely, they are. Absolutely, they are.

And that's why we're working very closely with the Arizona Counterterrorism Information Center, with our partners at the Department of Homeland Security, the FBI, of course the Arizona Department of Public Safety, the National Guard.

We've got a lot of folks helping us out to make sure that the good guys catch the vulnerabilities before the bad guys do.

Is it a game of cat and mouse? Yes, but it's not a game. This is serious.

And so we're doing everything we can, including continuously hoping that we can figure out a way to get some sustained federal funding for administration of elections across the United States of America because of these vulnerabilities.

Because there are federal candidates on our ballots. We need to secure those systems. As well, you know, a lot of our counties do not have the kinds of funding that they need to make sure their specific systems, which are tied into the greater systems, are secure.

[16:50:00]

So it is a big task that we have ahead of us. We have some amazingly talented people in a lot of different places helping.

But it is something that is, frankly, woefully underfunded. And it's the inconsistent funding.

Even though we get the Help America Vote Act money, even though we do occasionally get grants, there has to be sustained funding because elections are critical infrastructure, as designated by the Department of Homeland Security.

And I don't know any other piece of American critical infrastructure, as mandated by the Constitution and supported in statute, that does not have sustained federal funding.

We need that to make sure that our American elections are safe because these threats are real.

ACOSTA: All right. And I should note Chris Krebs did say that the 2020 election was the most secure election in American history, despite what's been said in the weeks, months and years that followed that election.

Secretary Adrian Fontes, thanks so much for your time. Really appreciate it.

FONTES: Thank you very much, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right. Thank you.

And we're following breaking news out of suburban Atlanta where at least four people are dead. There is a manhunt underway right now for the shooter.

Stay with CNN for the very latest. We will have more at the top of the hour and throughout this program as investigators try to get to the bottom of what happened in Henry County, Georgia, just outside of Atlanta. Four dead in a shooting incident in that area.

We will have the latest coming up. Stay with us. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:55:51]

ACOSTA: Now to a look at how a group of female scientists are kicking down barriers in shark research.

Check it out in this week's "IMPACT YOUR WORLD." (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASMIN GRAHAM, CO-FOUNDER, MINORITIES IN SHARK SCIENCES: I'm a shark scientist. I very quickly became aware that there's not a lot of people like me in the field.

We had this sort of movement on Twitter of black scientists with the hashtag, BlackInNature. When we started talking, we said, well, we should start a club.

Minorities in Shark Sciences' mission is to change the culture so that people from historically excluded groups participate in marine science.

We have programs like our Gill Guardians, which is curriculum that lives online to help educate people about sharks and move them from fear to fascination.

We have camps for our kids, Science at the Sea, where we bring kids out to the ocean. And then we have Science on the Move for those kids that can't get to the ocean and we can bring the ocean to them.

We also have professional development so people can get very specific skills that they need to be successful in this field and help connect people with other people that are doing research.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And this has opened a lot of doors that I didn't think were feasible being 45 years old and pursuing my degree later in life.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This reminds me that anything I want to do is possible.

GRAHAM: What I hope is that one day Minorities in Shark Sciences doesn't need to exist because barriers are eliminated.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA: To learn more about organizations helping with shark conservation, go to CNN.com/impact or text "fins" to 707070 to donate.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)