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Some 2024 Rivals Defend Trump As Indictment Looms; Unarmed Black Man Attacked By Ohio Police K9; Israeli Lawmakers To Vote On Judicial Reforms Tomorrow; Interview With State Representative Anna Eskamani (D-FL) About Florida's New Black History Standards; DOJ Warns Texas Governor Remove Buoy Barriers Or Face Legal Action; "Barbenheimer" Phenomenon Dominates Box Office; History of Black Television And Black Dramas. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired July 23, 2023 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:21]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington. Good evening.

There is one big question hanging over the nation's capital this evening. Could this be the week Donald Trump is indicted for trying to overturn the 2020 presidential election? Even the former president himself believes the indictment is coming. Question is when. It would be Trump's third criminal indictment and a potential game changer for the battle for the Republican presidential nomination.

But some of Trump's GOP challengers are shrugging off Trump's role in the January 6th insurrection. Among those questioning the case, former Vice President Mike Pence. Here is being whisked off to safety that day. You'll remember some of those images as rioters chanted hang Mike Pence after believing Trump's false claim that Pence could overthrow the election results.

Here's what Pence said earlier today on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE PENCE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The president's words were reckless that day. I had no right to overturn the election. But, while his words were reckless, based on what I know, I'm not yet convinced that they were criminal.

President Trump was wrong on that day and he's still wrong in asserting that I had the right to overturn the election, but what his intentions were, and as you know, criminal charges have everything to do with intent, what the president state of mind was. And I don't honestly know what his intention was that day, whether as he spoke to the crowd, as he tweeted during the riot itself, but for my part, from what I saw, as I've said, his actions were reckless.

I believe that history will hold him accountable. I believe that the Republican primary voters know that we need new leadership in this party.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Let's get some perspective now on all of this. Joining us to discuss is CNN senior political commentator and former Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger. He also served on the House Select Committee that investigated what took place on January 6th. What led up to January 6th as well.

Congressman, great to have you on. Thanks so much. Let's just get right to this. You were in the Capitol on January 6th. What's your reaction to what you just heard from the former vice president?

ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It's continued disappointment. I mean, so look, in listening to that sound bite, it sounds like Mike Pence is trying to say, Donald Trump was wrong in what he did, factually, like Donald Trump, didn't factually have the ability to overturn but not, and this is the first time I've kind of heard him say it like his, not that he was morally wrong in what he did.

That's what it sounded like to me, and it's a continuation of Mike Pence, or frankly many of these candidates running for president, to try to walk this line with Donald Trump, kind of being lukewarm. You don't want to tick off the base, so I can kind of be like, yes, you know, wink and nod, I'm kind of cool with you, bro, but I've got a little bit of a disagreement with Trump. And look, in Trump world, you're either hot or you're cold.

And if you want to get some of these Republican voters, you've got to be fully hot. So this kind of middle ground thing isn't working. And quite honestly, I just -- not only is it weak, not only is it disappointing to me, it's just, I don't see even the strategy in saying, you know, let's just continue to defend Trump even though we're running against him.

ACOSTA: Well, yes, I mean, let's get into that because Mike Pence is not the only Republican presidential candidate who is ducking this issue, ducking criticizing Trump for what happened that day. Let's take a listen to what Senator Tim Scott had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TIM SCOTT (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I hold the folks who broke into the Capitol with ill will in their hearts destroying property, responsible for their actions. I don't hold the former president, who didn't show up at the Capitol and threaten my life, as responsible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Congressman, what do you make of that argument?

KINZINGER: So, look, that's disappointing to me, too. I'm friends with Tim. I know he knows better than that. I get the strategy -- again, we don't want to infuriate the base on this. But the base needs leadership. They need leaders to tell them the truth. And this idea that the only people that can be held accountable are those that were actually in the Capitol, quite honestly, it's very unfair because a lot of these men and women in the Capitol that have been charged have said in public court proceedings that in fact they understood it to be Donald Trump's wishes that they did what they did.

And so in essence you're holding, as you should, you're holding the people accountable and you're exempting the leader simply because the leader himself didn't cross the red line physically. You know, all we have to do is look at what happened leading up to January 6th, and all, you know, frankly the illegality even before January 6th. You look at the tweets and the words on January 6th, and even after, celebrating people as martyrs that have been in jail.

[18:05:06]

The day of saying, you know, Mike Pence disappointed us or Mike Pence betrayed us, at the height of the violence, not when this was over in retrospect, at the height of the violence. At the height of this mob.

Look, if Donald Trump can't be held accountable for this, I'd say that to my friend Tim or anybody frankly, if he can't be held accountable, no leader of any group should be held accountable for anything unless they physically did some kind of a violent act. And of course thankfully our justice system doesn't fully work that way.

ACOSTA: And what do you think these candidates are doing? Are they just sort of banking on the possibility that Trump may go by the wayside? And if that's the case, then they haven't alienated the base and they could scoop them up? Is that kind of what's going on here? I mean, they're sort of running out of time for that strategy to work, aren't they?

KINZINGER: This is 2016 all over again. I mean, literally, 2016, I was a Jeb Bush guy. Became a Marco Rubio guy. And almost even became a Ted Cruz guy, God forbid, because, you know, it was like anything to stop Trump. But up until frankly the election, there was like something in our hearts that said there's no way Donald Trump can actually win this. Like sanity, somebody is going to come in on a white horse.

And I think it's a combination of things, Jim. Every time Donald Trump appears to be down and somebody speaks up, they get crushed because he always comes back. You know, Speaker McCarthy resurrected Donald Trump late January, when he went down to Mar-a-Lago, and so I think these candidates are scared. You're running for like the position of the strongest leader in the world, and you're scared to take on this guy.

But it's also this idea that maybe other people will do the hard work, maybe other people like the justice system will do the hard work, and then they can still run for the scraps, to say look, I never went against Donald Trump. I mean, that's Ron DeSantis's plan. It's actually not a terrible plan if you're Ron DeSantis, which is like continue to be Trump light so that if he does go to jail, you're the guy.

But listen, I think we're at a point where Republican voters will vote for Trump even if he's in jail so you've got to take him on. Chris Christie is doing that. Will Hurd is doing that. Asa Hutchinson is doing that. I typically love what Chris Christie is saying because he's taking him directly on.

ACOSTA: And we learned that the Special Counsel Jack Smith has informed Trump he's a target in the Justice Department's January 6th investigation. Would a potential third indictment do you think loosen his grip? It sounds like what you were saying just a few moments ago, they're going to vote for him even if he's in jail. But I suppose we don't know what we don't know as Donald Rumsfeld I think once said. But I mean, might a third indictment, the collective weight of that, might it change people's minds a little bit?

KINZINGER: You know, I'll say this, it's possible. Every kind of further indictment is possible because I heard a historian or sociologist once -- I wish I could say who it was because I don't remember. But basically saying like in essence, insane movements or crazy movements are like radical movements. When they fall apart, they fall apart immediately and nobody really saw it coming. So that's possible.

I do think so. I think he'll continue, again, for having been the strongest man in the world, most powerful man in the world for four years, he's been the victim of literally everything. Like why would you even vote for Donald Trump again because he obviously can't defend himself against anything. He's a huge victim, right? Well, now he just uses victimization.

But I think what's going to happen is a further indictment, it's not necessarily going to stop him from winning the nomination because he only needs 51 percent of Republicans, probably less because of the others in the race. But it will guarantee that -- I don't want to say guarantee because it makes people kind of rest. I think it further hinders his ability to win the presidency.

But, again, Jim, I believe Republicans and Democrats, Republicans that believe in democracy, you have to have an uneasy alliance through the selections to make sure he never takes power again.

ACOSTA: And the clock is on Trump's side once again, is it not? I mean, turning to the special counsel's classified documents case against Trump, the judge in that case said that the trial could begin as early as May 2024 but of course that could get pushed off. If the polling holds, Trump could potentially have the Republican nomination locked up by then. And we haven't even seen an indictment if it's going to come in the January 6th investigation. One would imagine that that trial might not take place until even after the classified documents case. And so he could run out the clock again.

KINZINGER: He really could. And I think that's his goal. I mean, his goal is to throw as much spaghetti on the wall, throw as much mud as he can, to weaken this out because in his mind, look, it'll be constitutional crisis. Let's say he wins, and by the way, it's not totally unthinkable that he could win again. Let's say he wins he will pardon himself. OK, well, people will say, well, I don't even know if that's constitutional. Nobody knows if it's constitutional.

But it has to go all the way up to the Supreme Court and frankly on pardoning, the president has a lot of power. That's his plan here. And I can't stress enough that it is the base that may be mad when you speak out against Donald Trump as I've obviously understood, but they are looking to leaders to tell them the truth.

[18:10:10]

And unfortunately most people running for president with the exception of people like Chris Christie are lying. They know they're lying but they're frankly too scared to take this guy on and that's where leaders have to come in.

ACOSTA: And do you -- so you think it'll be good for the country if Trump goes to jail? You think he should be punished, he should go to jail for what he's done and that that would be good for the country?

KINZINGER: Yes, look, we cannot be a country that exempts certain people, whether you are president or whether you are running for president, from justice. That's banana republic stuff. We can't be a country that excuses attempts to overthrow the will of the people, because in essence what that's saying, Jim, is it says, coups are illegal unless you succeed. If you fail at a coup then we'll charge you.

If you succeed, well, good, but we're not going to charge you if you're running again for president, or we're not going to charge you if it's too hard. I mean, we can't think about just this moment. We have to think about 10, 20, 30 years into the future. Anytime -- you've covered Washington so long. You know anytime some kind of a standard is breached or something is done for the first time, it never ever goes back to the old way, the way of defending the institution.

So I think charging Donald Trump would be very good. It's the right thing to do, and for me, it's not just like, I want political retribution. I mean, honestly, who cares, like I don't care about me on that. The country needs justice. And future presidents and future candidates need to know that you have to operate within the guidelines of the Constitution because that's what you're swearing an oath to do.

ACOSTA: All right. Former Congressman Adam Kinzinger, thanks for making me sound old as well, but no, but thanks for taking the time this evening being with us. We appreciate it. Thanks for your time.

KINZINGER: You bet. Thank you.

ACOSTA: All right. A startling attack on an unarmed black man. An officer's canine is unleashed after a highway chase even though the man appeared to be surrendering. You're going to want to take a look at this video and we're going to show it to you in just a few moments. That story is next. Plus outrage in Israel as the country's lawmakers prepared to vote on controversial changes later in the program.

We'll be noting a big win at the box office for "Barbenheimer." You're going to be I think a little surprised, a little startled maybe, how much these two movies raked in. It's a lot of money and why the number has movie fans excited. The movies are back. We'll talk about that.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:16:40]

ACOSTA: The NAACP chapter in Columbus, Ohio, is slamming a recent roadside police encounter as, quote, "barbaric." And before we show you the footage in question, we want to warn you, some viewers may find this disturbing.

An Ohio state trooper's bodycam recorded a police dog attacking an unarmed black man who appeared to be surrendering after a police pursuit on the highway. Despite one officer telling another not to do so, the video shows the dog unleashed on the man who was then heard pleading with officers to get the dog off of him.

CNN's Polo Sandoval is following this disturbing case for us.

Polo, what can you tell us?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, Jim, just to make sure viewers can draw a distinction between the agencies that were involved out there, it was the Ohio State Highway Patrol that initiated this traffic stop turned chase but then it's the actions of the Circleville Police Department that are being called into question. It was their canine unit that responded and that canine released after apparently the suspect here was in the process of surrendering himself.

And that is what's drawing the criticism, and of course many questions, and again, we have to echo that warning. This video you're about to see is difficult to see and will certainly remind you of when that video is about to take that disturbing turn.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SANDOVAL (voice-over): The footage provided by Ohio State Highway Patrol is disturbing but now under scrutiny after a man was mauled by a police officer's canine.

July 4th, Jackson County Ohio, a case report shows a highway patrol officer in a marked vehicle tried stopping the driver of this big rig for a missing mud flap. The man behind the wheel later identified by authorities as 23-year-old Jadarrius Rose drives on and a chase begins. About 20 minutes into the pursuit, the big rig is seen rolling to a stop.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the truck.

SANDOVAL: But that lasts only a few seconds. The driver continues to flee and officers stay on him for another eight minutes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He took off again. All right. We're heading northbound.

SANDOVAL: It wasn't until police used tire deflation devices.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're stopped. SANDOVAL: That the chase came to a slow but dramatic and disturbing

stop. That's a Circleville Ohio Police Department Canine Unit rolling up to the scene. After repeated orders from state troopers, the driver eventually steps out of the rig, his hands in the air as requested. A patrolman is heard asking the canine to not be released, though it's unclear if he could be heard by all officers on scene. That's when the canine is deployed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do not release the dog with his hands up. Do not release the dog with his hands up. Do not release the dog. With his hands up. Don't --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get the dog off of him!

SANDOVAL: After the canine takedown, an officer approaches then quickly walks away. Her hands covering her face as Rose screams in pain. The frustration audible in the voice of another state officer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was I not loud enough?

SANDOVAL: After the dog is removed, officers moved in to arrest Rose and administer first aid.

JADARRIUS ROSE, SUSPECT: You just let the dog bite me?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All you got to do is come to me.

ROSE: I was coming. All the guns pointed at me. How do you expect me to respect you? You got a gun pointed at me. There's like 20 of y'all.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All you had to do was stop, brother.

ROSE: I did stop.

SANDOVAL: A spokesperson for the Ohio State Highway Patrol tells CNN his troopers were attempting to gain compliance by providing verbal commands to the suspect. The Circleville Police Department deployed their canine which resulted in the suspect being bitten.

[18:20:04]

CNN has reached out to the Circleville Police Department for comment. Police say Rose was taken to a local hospital where he was treated and released before being taken to jail. His attorney declined to comment.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANDOVAL: The Columbus chapter of the NAACP is reacting tonight, saying that it is appalled. The president of that chapter releasing the statement, Jim. I'll read a portion of that. In it the president Nana Watson writing, "The Columbus, Ohio, NAACP is outraged at the recent video depicting the Circleville Police unleashing a dog on an unarmed black man, Mr. Jadarrius Rose, who had his hands up in the air and was on his knees. The officer's peers shouted for him not to unleash the dog, but apparently their shouts fell on deaf ears," end of quote. Again, we should remind viewers it's still unclear whether or not

those commands coming from that Ohio state trooper could actually be heard by that police officer with the Circleville PD but you can imagine, when you hear from the NAACP they say that these kinds of images they retraumatized many African-Americans at the site of a dog being unleashed on an unarmed black man. So that's their concern tonight as they call for a detailed investigation into this July 4th incident -- Jim.

ACOSTA: Yes. It's outrageous, and you can tell when one of the other officers on the scene puts her hands over her face. I mean, obviously, it looks as though some of the officers on the scene were disturbed by what took place.

SANDOVAL: It's absolutely telling.

ACOSTA: Yes, it is. All right, Polo Sandoval, let us know if you get any more on this. Thanks so much.

In the meantime, it's after 1:00 a.m. in Israel and just hours away from parliament voting on a highly controversial reform of that country's judicial system. The country has seen seven months of intense protests, we've been telling you about them on this program, over the move to limit the Supreme Court's authority in Israel over the government.

This is the scene at a park in Jerusalem where authorities unleashed a water cannon to control the crowds.

CNN's Hadas Gold has the latest.

HADAS GOLD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Jim. I'm in Jerusalem, just outside of the Israeli Supreme Court where tens of thousands of protesters have now been coming for several days because the legislation that's part of this judicial overhaul package is set to be voted on tomorrow in the Israeli parliament.

This specific legislation would take the Supreme Court's ability to declare government actions unreasonable completely away. And that's why these protesters have been coming out here now. They've been coming out for months of course to the streets of Israel, but the protests have really ramped up in recent days because of this legislation. And you can feel the pressure rising.

I want to show you this big Israeli police truck right here. This is actually a water cannon truck. This is crowd control and it is ready to go, potentially, if they need to, if the police feel like they want to clear out these protesters from in front of the Israeli Supreme Court. It hasn't been used yet, but we've seen it being used in other protesters in parts of the country.

Also happening tonight, though, is a protest in favor of this judicial overhaul. These protesters, they call it a reform. They say that the Israeli Supreme Court and the judiciary is in desperate need of reform, that it's become too powerful and too elitist, and this will help balance things out. But for the protesters here, they fear that this is the beginning of the end of the independence of Israeli judiciary, that would put too much power in the hands of the Israeli government.

Protesters here have set up a tent city in the largest park here that's right by the Israeli parliament, saying that they will camp out for as long as necessary. Adding to the pressure is thousands of Israeli military reservists who have said that they will not serve if this legislation passes. That of course brings into question the preparedness of the Israeli military against the many fronts that it faces.

And then, Jim, all of this is happening as the Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu actually was hospitalized on Saturday evening in a sort of emergency fashion to be fitted with a pacemaker after a heart condition was discovered.

So a lot going on with the Israeli prime minister despite being in the hospital, still indicating that he plans to push forward with this vote on Monday saying that it will pass, despite all the pressures from the protesters, from military, from President Joe Biden, and from the Israeli president Michael Herzog who upon landing from his trip to the United States actually tonight went straight to Benjamin Netanyahu's hospital in order to try to negotiate with him to come to some sort of compromise on this legislation. But so far all signs are indicating that that vote will take place on Monday -- Jim.

ACOSTA: All right, Hadas Gold. Thanks so much. We'll be watching that.

In the meantime, black history education, the latest front in Florida's culture war fight. A Florida state lawmaker is here to react to that state's controversial new standards just approved including on how slaves may have received a, quote, "personal benefit" from being taught certain skills. We'll talk about that in a few moments.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:29:27]

ACOSTA: As Florida approves new standards for teaching black history in public school, Republican Governor Ron DeSantis is back in familiar territory, trading barbs with Democratic opponents over his controversial education policy. Over the last few days he sparred with Vice President Kamala Harris as he campaigns to replace her administration next year.

And joining us now to talk about this is Florida Democratic State Representative Anna Eskamani.

Representative, great to see you. Thanks so much for being with us. We appreciate it. You were at this state board of education meeting this week when these new rules were approved. Let me ask you about this.

[18:30:02] Governor DeSantis was on camera in just the last couple of days defending this new education policy as it pertains to slavery and I wanted to get your response. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Get your clarification on one thing with -- in the policy. It says instruction includes how slaves developed skills which in some instances could be applied for their personal benefit. Could you just explain that?

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R), FLORIDA: Well, you should talk to them about it. I mean, I didn't do it. You know, I wasn't involved in it, but I think -- I think what they're doing is I think that they're probably going to show some of the folks that eventually parlayed, you know, being a blacksmith into doing things later in life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Representative Eskamani, do you know what he means by parlaying skills developed during slavery into another craft? What does that mean?

ANNA ESKAMANI (D), FLORIDA HOUSE REPRESENTATIVE: Well, Jim, I think Governor Ron DeSantis would really benefit from learning African- American history himself. I mean, he gives off the impression that he thinks people retired from slavery instead of addressing this egregious part of American history, a part of our history that we don't want to repeat.

And it's also really offensive that he acts like he has nothing to do with it. The Board of Education is appointed by the governor. These are his allies. He's appointed Moms for Liberty extremists on our Board of Education so not only is he responsible for this but he clearly does not understand the facts of African-American history.

ACOSTA: And you took issue with one instructional change at this week's board meeting and it reads, "Instruction includes how slaves developed skills which in some instances could be applied for their personal benefit," and that appears to be what he was just saying a few moments ago in that video that we just played about some blacksmith or -- you could become a blacksmith after being a slave, which doesn't make any sense.

How did the board respond when you raised objections to this?

ESKAMANI: So, despite pleas from myself and others including leaders in the African-American community to not approve these standards, to go back and revisit these assumptions and correct them, the Board of Education approved them unanimously. Really with no debate or opposition. So it just speaks to how, in the state of Florida, we are degrading our education institutions, and really the impact will be felt by our students who are going to be misinformed, misguided, and at a severe disadvantage in working at diverse environments and just competing on a global scale. ACOSTA: And Florida's education commissioner argued that these changes

to the curriculum will make it, quote, "more robust," saying they were created by a group of educators and academics. What was your response to that?

ESKAMANI: Well, in fact, there's been a great deal of analysis of his statement, and some of the attempts to justify the department's position in listing certain members in African-American history that department says benefited and not only have many of their examples been debunked as not actually even being enslaved themselves, but many of these individuals have no roots in Florida either.

So much of the commissioner's attempts to do damage control are failing. And I'm grateful for the national outrage because this isn't just happening in Florida. You know, and unfortunately Florida has been inspiring other extremists, other states to do the same thing. So we have to stop the buck here or it's all going to get worse.

ACOSTA: And I want to get your comment on one other thing that the governor is doing. Apparently he's wading into another culture war issue. He's threatening legal action against the company that makes Bud Light for its marketing campaign with the transgender activist. Do you expect that he's going to go through with this? What was your response to that when you saw that?

ESKAMANI: We have some serious problems here in Florida, Jim, that our governor has been absent on, whether it's the rising cost of property insurance, the skyrocketing rental rates, Floridians cannot afford Florida. And instead of dealing with these issues, our governor continues to flail on the national stage and now is attempting to potentially sue a beer company. It's a sad state of affairs and this other example of why we don't want Governor DeSantis running our state and we definitely don't want him running the country.

ACOSTA: All right. Florida State Representative Anna Eskamani, thanks so much for your time. I appreciate it as always.

All right, and in the meantime, the Department of Justice is putting Texas Governor Greg Abbott on notice for his plan to deter migration at the southern border, either remove the floating barriers placed along the Rio Grande by tomorrow or face a lawsuit from the U.S. government. The Republican governor's response to President Biden, quote, "We will see you in court."

CNN White House reporter Priscilla Alvarez is following this for us.

Priscilla, we were talking with Congressman Joaquin Castro about this yesterday. He was outraged about this and describing these floating barriers as drowning devices, force drowning devices.

[18:35:05]

They're very fired up, a lot of Democrats are, down in Texas about this. What do you think is going to happen next? Does this sound like this could be a battle that Texas could win here or might the Justice Department be able to force the state to reverse course? PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Jim, this is

certainly an escalation between President Joe Biden and Texas Governor Greg Abbott, both of whom have been going back and forth on the situation along the Texas-Mexico border, and now the Texas governor taking the step of putting those barriers this month which do pose a potential drowning risk to migrants who are crossing.

So the Justice Department sent a letter to the Texas governor on Thursday saying that he didn't have authorization to put those barriers in the water in the first place, citing a clause of the law. And humanitarian concerns was among one of the things that the Justice Department mentioned, going to say that the state of Texas' actions violate federal law, raise humanitarian concerns, presents serious risks to public safety and the environment, and may interfere with the federal government's ability to carry out its official duties.

And officials I've been talking to for months now said there were internal discussions between the Department of Homeland Security and the Justice Department about the actions that they were seeing the Texas governor take that posed concern within the administration. So the feud has now escalated with the Justice Department sending this letter and giving Texas until Monday afternoon to reply and say whether or not they're going to take down these barriers.

The governor saying that it is their sovereign authority to defend our borders so he is standing firm on his position. The Justice Department saying he'll take him to court if he decides to keep those barriers up -- Jim.

ACOSTA: All right. Priscilla Alvarez, thank you very much. A very important topic. We'll be watching it. Thanks again.

It's the biggest question -- it's one of the biggest questions this weekend, "Barbie" or "Oppenheimer"? Both films are bringing in blockbuster figures from the box office. We'll discuss what might be behind the success. That's next.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:41:10]

ACOSTA: "Barbie the Movie" winning big and making history at the box office this weekend.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RYAN GOSLING, ACTOR, "BARBIE": Hey, Barbie. Can I come to your house tonight?

MARGOT ROBBIE, ACTOR, "BARBIE": Sure. I don't have anything big planned. Just a giant blowout party with all the Barbies and planned choreography and a bespoke on. You should stop by.

GOSLING: So cool. (END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: The film took in a stunning $155 million this weekend, giving "Barbie" the largest opening weekend of 2023. We should note "Barbie" is disputed by Warner Bros. which is owned by CNN's parent company Warner Bros. Discovery.

CNN's senior media reporter Oliver Darcy joins us now.

No matter which company, we would be talking about this, Oliver. This is a massive blowout success. Did we think that it was going to be this big, though?

OLIVER DARCY, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: This is a huge success, Jim. Warner Bros. had been projecting "Barbie" to earn about $70 million range in the opening weekend at the domestic box office and now it's earned or on track to earn $155 million at the domestic box office. So that's way more than had initially been projected by the studio.

And "Oppenheimer," which was projected to earn around $40 million to 50 million, it's projected now to earn about $80 million this weekend at the box office.

ACOSTA: Wow.

DARCY: So both of these movies blowing past expectations and of course driven by this "Barbenheimer" viral sensation that's really washed over the country where people are seeing both movies back to back. Of course, it became a meme since both movies are so different and they were forced to share the box office at the same weekend, and now people are really embracing that, seeing "Barbie," and then seeing "Oppenheimer," and it's led to a huge weekend at the box office.

ACOSTA: Yes. Neither movie bombed. We can tell you that much.

And Oliver, this is a huge deal for the industry because during COVID of course and after COVID, I mean, there were concerns about whether or not this industry, having movies in movie theaters was going to continue to exist. And what is it about these movies that brought people back, do you think?

DARCY: Yes, Jim, that's exactly right. It seems like a moment, I think that's actually what's driving people to the box office this weekend. It's a cultural moment, and you haven't really seen many of those since the COVID pandemic really upended the movie theater industry. And so you can bet that Hollywood studios are looking at this, they're celebrating this. Theater owners are celebrating this.

The question is, with all the turmoil now in Hollywood with the strikes on the actors and the writers, whether this will be one of the last big box offices at the weekend until that is all resolved.

ACOSTA: No, it's a very important point. We talk about that later on the show. I want to move on to Twitter because, OK, what is going on with Twitter? I know we seem to ask this from time to time. But Elon Musk announced big changes. He's killing -- is he killing the bird, the Twitter bird?

DARCY: It seems that he is killing the bird or throwing it out of its nest. He is saying that he is going to replace the Twitter bird logo or the name Twitter, with X, which he is hyping as this company that will literally do apparently everything whether it's banking, online communication, artificial intelligence. That's what he's saying.

Now of course, this is a company that he has said in the past was on the verge of bankruptcy. They've been unable to keep the basic site functions for just regular Twitter online in the past several weeks. So we'll see what becomes of this but Elon Musk is basically saying he's going to throw out the Twitter identity, bring in this X identity and it's supposed to -- again, according to him, do pretty much everything.

ACOSTA: And it's just going to be called X? So if you tweet, are you X-ing? Are you -- what are you doing?

[18:45:07]

DARCY: It's very confusing.

ACOSTA: Maybe they'll still be called tweeting. I don't --

Let me ask you this, Oliver. A judge rejected a bid to withdraw a guilty plea from the so-called QAnon shaman Jacob Chansley. In doing so the judge said something about Tucker Carlson. What can you tell us about that?

DARCY: Yes, Jim. This judge absolutely ripped Tucker Carlson in a really scathing ruling in the past few days. The judge said that Tucker Carlson had basically asked his audience to disbelieve what their eyes and ears, what they had seen with their own eyes and ears. And the judge said in the ruling that he was alarmed that so many viewers actually did heed Carlson's demand to not believe what they saw with their own eyes and ears.

But that the court could not do that and the court had to take and consider the actual evidence before it, and for this reason, the judge rejected the defendant's motion to throw out some of the rulings against him. But a really scathing ruling from this judge that took on Tucker Carlson's lies about January 6th head on.

ACOSTA: Yes. A lot of the January 6th participants now say they feel like they were duped by people like Donald Trump and Tucker Carlson. That's exactly what took place. They were lied to. Important that that judge spoke out on that.

All right. Oliver Darcy, great to see you. Thanks so much. Appreciate it.

All right, and a big weekend for movies as Oliver is just saying, coming as writers and actors are on strike. Does heading to the theaters help or hurt their efforts? An important question. We want to talk about it. "Entertainment Tonight's" Kevin Frazier joins us now live with his take on that and more. That's next. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM. There it is.

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[18:51:14]

ACOSTA: The new CNN Original Series "SEE IT LOUD: THE HISTORY OF BLACK TELEVISION" celebrates the creators who brought black TV to life. This week a look at the way the community has forced a path in dramatic television. Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEBBIE ALLEN, ACTRESS: We don't see black people in that 9:00 dramatic slot. We might see one in "L.A. Law" or here and there fly away, but they're not the center of the core of what the show is about.

GARTH ANCIER, FORMER PRESIDENT, WB AND FOX NETWORK: I don't recall black dramas being pitched very often.

ALLEN: Certainly you could say it was an outcome of the Clarence Thomas and Anita Hill hearings that show that black people could hold the audience with a drama without taking their clothes off.

ANCIER: Television networks were under the impression that their advertising rates would be lower for the black family shows. There was just a sense that my colleagues did not want basically an all-black cast.

BLAIR UNDERWOOD, ACTOR: As long as we can make you laugh, then it's comfortable. Whenever you're playing dramatic roles and you're taking on a different persona, it's uncomfortable.

ANCIER: I don't think that would be true today. But that was true 20 years ago.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: And the co-host of "Entertainment Tonight" Kevin Frazier joins us now.

Kevin, real big pleasure to have you on. Thanks so much for being with us. Before we get to tonight's show, let's talk about the strikes in Hollywood. You talk to a lot of actors. They're not promoting their films right now. We've seen them leave screenings and that sort of thing. It's been amazing to watch. I mean, but one of the questions that just regular folks like you and me have, I supposed, should we go to these movies? Should we be staying away from them if we want to support the actors and writers who are on strike? What do we do?

KEVIN FRAZIER, CO-HOST, "ENTERTAINMENT TONIGHT": Well, here's the most important thing to understand, that it's not about Margot Robbie or the people out in front. It's about the people behind. And that's who you're supporting, those working actors who are struggling to get by each and every day. Sure, you can go and see and entertain yourself. But remember what this strike is about. You know, outside of my office, there is a holding area for extras and

background actors all the time. I see them sitting outside, eating their lunches. And these are the people who are just fighting to get by. They live in Atlanta, they live in Louisiana, they live in Los Angeles, they are in Vancouver. But these working actors, not the people out front making all the billions, is what this strike is all about. We're fighting for their rights. And also, just the scary proposition of what AI can do and how it could change the entertainment business.

ACOSTA: Yes, I mean there is such an explosive potential there. I mean, you're absolutely right. That is going to be an issue, a sticking point in these negotiations.

Let's talk about "SEE IT LOUD." It shows that it has been harder for black actors and creators to break into dramatic television compared to comedy. I think some of the clips we were just playing a few moments ago really illustrate that. Why is that? Why has this been the case?

FRAZIER: Well, Jim, let me first take you back to 2021 and the McKenzie Report, which was talking about diversity in Hollywood. And while it was a field goal for African-Americans, it wasn't a touchdown. And the biggest problem we see is that Hollywood makes about $148 billion a year. They're willing to walk away. They're missing another $10 billion if they would just create content that would be preferable to African-Americans.

Think about that. $10 billion that's being walked away. Also, when you are watching television, and for many years, and for many of us, it was how we realized our racial identity, how many white people first saw or got to know black people was through television, not through interactions in their daily life.

[18:55:05]

And so it's very important that you get to see a diversity of life, a true slice of the American pie, and the diversity of the black culture. But the problem is that we can laugh for you, but you doggone sure don't want us to be serious.

ACOSTA: You're absolutely right about that. But things really changed in the '70s. The series "SEE IT LOUD" takes up on a journey from the "Roots" to many series of 1977. You know, that was a television earthquake back in day. The Shondaland today. What do you think were some of the most impactful dramas on television that changed the equation?

FRAZIER: Well, first, I want to talk about "Roots" for a second because it's "Roots" the saga of an American family. And for the first time, the African-American experience in this country was explained to people in painful detail. And also, you got a chance to see that people were living in Africa as family units. It wasn't a bunch of savages out in the bush who you saved them by kidnapping and enslaving them. But that was the first real shock for folks. But I want to also take you all the way back to Bill Cosby in "I Spy"

before his legal troubles. You know, we have to remember that Bill Cosby was groundbreaking with what he did on "I Spy," and won three Emmy Awards. Let's talk about Diane Carol and her amazing performance for "Julia." A black woman that you're seeing for the first time as not a housekeeper, but a nurse, who made the ultimate sacrifice. Her husband lost his life in Vietnam and now she was raising her son as a single mother.

We also forget a show like "Get Christy Love." You know? That was an ABC show in the '70s that while short-lived, it had an African- American in the lead. But as that ramped up, then you get to "Toots." What you said, was a tsunami, it was an earthquake. And, you know, there were others between that. But now we get to Shondaland. We get to Will Packer. We get to all these different people who are telling our stories, but there still aren't enough.

ACOSTA: Not enough, but those shows certainly made a difference. And that's going to be the subject of tonight's "SEE IT LOUD."

Kevin Frazier, great to talk to you. Thanks so much. Appreciate it.

FRAZIER: Jim, always great to talk to you.

ACOSTA: All right. Let's have you back again soon. Thanks so much.

Don't miss the new episode of the CNN Original Series, "SEE IT LOUD: THE HISTORY OF BLACK TELEVISION." A very important episode tonight at 9:00 Eastern and Pacific only on CNN.

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