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Trump's Third Criminal Indictment Could Come Any Time; New Polling on 2024 GOP Nomination Race; Unarmed Black Man Attacked By Ohio Police Dog; Actors Wrap First Week On Picket Lines; More Russian Airstrikes Hit Port City Of Odesa. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired July 23, 2023 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:01:46]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington. Good evening.

We are inching closer to what could be an historic week when Donald Trump is potentially indicted for trying to overturn the 2020 presidential election. Even the former president himself believes the indictment is coming. The question is when. It would be Trump's third criminal indictment and a potential game changer in the battle for the GOP presidential nomination. But some of Trump's Republican challengers are shrugging off Trump's role in the Capitol attack. Among those questioning the case, Mike Pence.

Here is the former vice president and his family being whisked away. You probably remember these images from January 6th as rioters were chanting "Hang Mike Pence." They apparently believed Trump's lies that Pence could overturn the election results.

Here is what Pence said to CNN earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE PENCE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: While his words were reckless, based on what I know, I'm not yet convinced that they were criminal.

President Trump was wrong on that day and he's still wrong in asserting that I had the right to overturn the election, but what his intentions were, and as you know, criminal charges have everything to do with intent, what the president state of mind was. And I don't honestly know what his intention was that day, whether as he spoke to that crowd, as he tweeted during the riot itself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: A third criminal indictment for Trump would add to what is already a packed political and legal schedule. As you can see here, he'll be juggling both priorities in January, March right up until May at the very least.

Joining us now with more CNN legal analysts and former White House ethics czar Norm Eisen. He was also co-counsel for the Judiciary Committee during the first Trump impeachment. Norm, Ambassador Eisen, great to see you. Let me ask you what Mike

Pence was just saying there a few moments ago about intent. Is that accurate that that's like the whole ball game? Because there is a lot more from what I understand that could be going into all this, what the prosecutors might be looking at?

NORM EISEN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Jim, he was a good vice president on January 6th. But he's not a very good criminal law expert.

ACOSTA: OK.

EISEN: He's focusing on the wrong thing. It's not Donald Trump's words on the Ellipse that day that create the criminal liability, according to the target letter that Jack Smith has sent. Donald Trump oversaw starting in November of 2020 an alleged nationwide scheme to procure fraudulent false election certificates. That has nothing to do with those words on January 6th. And then he squeezed Mike Pence to betray his duty on that day.

Again, that's irrespective of what Donald Trump did on the Ellipse. And then finally, it's not the words of his speech so much. It's that 187 minutes of inaction. Former president Trump had a legal duty to act, and that's what gives rise to the charges for violating rights and privilege, civil rights charges. So I can't accept the former vice president's legal analysis.

ACOSTA: And so if we do see this indictment this week, it is possible we will see charges other than incitement. And do you think that's appropriate?

EISEN: I do. I think for those -- the schemes all over the country as well as pressing his own DOJ, pressing governors and elected officials around the country, and those phony false, fraudulent counterfeit certificates.

[19:05:14]

ACOSTA: You keep coming back to that.

EISEN: Well, you can't -- Jim, these were pieces of paper that said the undersigned were the electors for the winner, Donald Trump. And they signed -- these false electors signed that. That's a counterfeit. 18 USC 371. That was led from the Oval Office, conspiracy to defraud because those are fraudulent certificates. And then the pressure on Mike Pence, 18 USC 1512. It's called witness tampering is the title. But Section C, obstructing an official proceeding.

You can't tell Mike Pence not to recognize the rightful winner, recognize me, Trump said. That's a serious criminal allegation from the target letter. And then the third one, this civil rights conspiracy on the day of January 6th itself. Pressuring Pence and Congress not to recognize the rightful winner. Well, that is offense against the votes of 81 million Americans who voted for President Biden.

ACOSTA: And he was tweeting at the crowd that day, egging on the crowd. And there is video of people in the crowd saying, oh, we just got a tweet from Trump.

EISEN: Yes, this is probably the weakest portion of the former vice president's analysis because at 2:24 p.m., former President Trump tweeted when the insurrection was already going on.

ACOSTA: Right.

EISEN: The violence was going on, inflaming and then of course we saw the vice president fleeing. So I think there is a powerful criminal case here. I wrote a bipartisan model prosecution memo just before the target.

ACOSTA: I remember that.

EISEN: Letter came out. And experts of both parties say there seems to be a strong criminal case here against Trump.

ACOSTA: And Trump shared this ominous video on Truth Social. Let's listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If you do something bad to us, we are going to do things to you that have never been done before.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Now the audio of that comes from a few years back. And so we need to note this. But he did repost this on Truth Social. It came from some other group apparently. But he reposted on Truth Social. It sounds as though he's issuing a not so veiled threat.

Could the judge, if is there a judge that's ultimately appointed in the January 6th case, if there is an indictment, we should say if, could the judge issue a gag order and say you can't continue to do this kind of incitement rhetoric?

EISEN: Could happen. The First Amendment provides a lot of protection. There is some ambiguity about these statements. We haven't seen a gag order in response to some of his outrageous statements, including pointing at prosecutors. In a normal case, you would get in trouble for that. So we'll see. You've got to go to a very great extent under the First Amendment, particularly for a political candidate, a presidential candidate. I think the courts are going to set a very high threshold.

ACOSTA: And the special counsel's office reaching out to the office of Georgia Governor Brian Kemp. How is that important do you think? It goes back to the states?

EISEN: Yes. It's --

ACOSTA: And this effort to get the false electors?

EISEN: It's that three-act drama. You know, Jim, it's actually not a very complicated case. Act one, throw everything you can at the wall. That's what Donald Trump did. That includes reaching out to the Arizona Governor Ducey, the Georgia Governor Kemp, the infamous Georgia secretary of State call on January 2nd, Brad Raffensperger. Act two, when all that fails, you're left with those phony certificates. Squeeze Mike Pence the 4th or the morning of the 6th. When that fails, the violence. So this is an important part of Act one.

ACOSTA: And Trump declined to come and talk to the D.C. grand jury. His newest defense attorney said there was no need for him to do that. Let's play a little bit of that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN LAURO, ATTORNEY FOR FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP: President Trump did absolutely nothing wrong. He's done nothing criminal, and he's made his case that he was entitled to take these positions as president of the United States. When he saw all these election discrepancies and irregularities going on, he did what any president was required to do because he took an oath to do exactly that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: What do you think of that?

EISEN: That's my friend John Lauro. We practiced law together as criminal defense lawyers, and Jim, he's doing what is in the proud tradition since John Adams defended the Red Coats, defending his client. But it's not going to work. He's very skilled, very brilliant defense lawyer, and he is going to be out there, but it's not going to work because I believe the evidence is so overwhelming here.

When this case gets to a jury, Donald Trump is going to be in a lot of trouble. But he does have a good defense lawyer on his side now in John.

[19:10:02]

ACOSTA: All right. Norm Eisen, thanks very much. Appreciate it. We know we'll be back talking to you about this in the days ahead.

Coming up, how Republican presidential candidates are reacting to Trump possibly facing an indictment over January 6th. Plus new polling today on the GOP nomination race. What it means for the candidates looking to clear a hurdle to get on that debate stage.

And later, a split screen moment for Hollywood actors and writers on strike while a pair of summer blockbusters broke records this weekend. Actor Sean Gunn will join us live to share his take on where the negotiations go from here.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: Donald Trump is once again on the verge of indictment, yet he is still playing the politics of incitement. This week the former president promoted an ominous video on his Truth Social account issuing a thinly veiled threat after announcing he is a target in Special Counsel Jack Smith's election interference investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: If you do something bad to us, we are going to do things to you that have never been done before.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[19:15:08]

ACOSTA: Joining us now to discuss, former adviser to Vice President Mike Pence, Olivia Troye, and CNN political commentator and Democratic strategist Maria Cardona.

Ladies, both in the studio with me. This is a great treat. Thanks so much.

Maria, we should note those words were used by Trump when he was discussing Iran back in 2020. But he did repost it just in the last several days. The video came from some other account that made it a MAGA account. But what are your thoughts when you hear that?

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, clearly, it was intentional. And it was intentional in the moment because he is so pissed off about what's going on. He is so pissed off at Jack Smith for doing this to him. He is taking it personally, as we knew he tends to do. And it's not the first time even recently that he has threatened violence. Several days ago he talked about how if this happens, it could be very dangerous, right? That's another threat.

It's not just a threat, Jim, but it is not a very veiled invitation to his followers, the same way that he did prior to January 6th to say, hey, they're going after me. You guys have to defend me. You guys have to do something about this. And on January 6th we saw what happened. It cost lives and it cost him his what's going to be his third indictment. But to him, it doesn't matter because he doesn't care about the country.

He doesn't care about his followers. He doesn't care about his supporters. Everything in search of him winning. And I think that is what is putting this country at stake. It's certainly putting the GOP at stake. And what's worse, the candidates who are running against him have no idea how to go against that.

ACOSTA: And to that point, Olivia, I mean, your old boss, you worked for Vice President Mike Pence. He says he's not so sure that Trump's actions on January 6th were criminal. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PENCE: The president's words were reckless that day. I had no right to overturn the election. But while his words were reckless, based on what I know, I'm not yet convinced that they were criminal. Criminal charges have everything to do with intent, you know, what the president's state of mind was. And I don't honestly know what his intention was that day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Olivia, as you know, they were saying "Hang Mike Pence" that day. I guess that's not enough for the former vice president.

OLIVIA TROYE, FORMER ADVISER TO VICE PRESIDENT PENCE: Yes, I guess not. And, you know, I think like does he have amnesia about the lead- up to January 6th and what happened there? The amount of pressuring that Trump did, the fact that they have interviewed all these people at the state level that faced this intimidation by him, the fact that all these inner circle people were pressured, and the fact that he himself was in meetings where he was bullied.

And that meeting in December where they had discussions about what the plan was. So, you know, I think what's disturbing about this is Mike Pence wants to be president. I know that for a fact. This is a dream of his. But if that's how you're going to behave now by enabling, continuing to enable someone like that, and you're seeking the higher office, what does that say about the type of leader that you're going to be when you can't even call him out directly for this attempt to like impact our democracy and overturn our election?

What does that say about you and the type of leader that you're going to be then?

ACOSTA: Yes. And Maria, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis says he's not in sold on the idea that January 6th was a planned attack on the Capitol, that it wasn't an insurrection. He's been saying this in recent days. Let's listen to what he had to say to the actor Russell Brand.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It was not an insurrection. These are people that were there to attend a rally, and then they were there to protest. Now it devolved and it devolved into a riot. But the idea that this was a plan to somehow overthrow the government of the United States is not true.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: And we should fact check here. Obviously, there were members of the Oath Keepers who were tried and convicted on charges of seditious conspiracy. So sedition was at hand that day. What's going on here?

CARDONA: You know, Jim, I think there's --

ACOSTA: This is a whitewashing of history. This is an attempted whitewashing.

CARDONA: Not only that, I have one word for all of these candidates, DeSantis, your old boss, and everybody else who does not have the cojones to go after Trump. And that word underscored and in bold, cowardice, because they understand. They know. They're not stupid. They know what Trump did. They know its criminality. They know it's immoral. They know it's wrong. But even more so, they are afraid of his power over the MAGA base.

What they don't understand is what real leadership is. And you've talked about this. What real leaders do, Jim, is they stand up in the moment where they are needed the most, and they say no, this is wrong. This is not what our country deserves. This is not what you Trump supporters deserve. He is using you. He is lying to you. There are very few candidates in the GOP primary that are doing that right now, Chris Christie, Governor Hutchinson, but they're nowhere in the polls.

[19:20:09]

So what does this say about that base? What does this say about the broader Republican Party who says they don't want Trump, but lo and behold, that's not what the polls are showing.

ACOSTA: And Olivia, we're getting an idea which Republican candidates will make the first debate next month. We're going the share this on screen. A new polling from FOX indicates seven candidates, Trump, DeSantis, Pence, Ramaswamy, Nikki Haley, Tim Scott and Chris Christie have met the polling qualifications to get on the stage.

Do you think we could see the field consolidate a little bit? Do you think we'll see -- maybe we'll see a Reaganesque moment on that debate stage? One of these other Republicans going after Trump, although I suppose if he's not there, they can't go after him. He's been indicating he might not even show up.

TROYE: Yes, I think --

ACOSTA: Speaking of courage and all that. Yes.

CARDONA: Right.

TROYE: Right. Exactly.

CARDONA: Exactly.

TROYE: Yes, and look, as someone who has supported the GOP, as a life- long Republican, I would love nothing more than to see a traditional actual conservative care about the country and stand up there on the debate stage and present policy positions, actually, instead of mudslinging and culture wars and all of this that we have, right?

But I -- you know, do I see them kind of doing that? No. I see one person standing up, and that's Chris Christie right now that's qualified for the debate stage who will take on Trump, who will call it for what it is, and I'm waiting for others. I wish that Governor Asa Hutchinson would qualify. I actually think he is a traditional conservative who was actually like would stand up for the platform of the old GOP. But, you know, that remains to be seen.

I'll just say this, though. You've got -- you know, if you look at the diagram, Donald Trump, Mike Pence, you know, you have DeSantis, and then you've got Vivek, who's out there pushing disinformation videos as well, calling about like what the police state that we're in right now. I mean, all of these people are pushing the same type of disinformation that is dangerous to our country.

And so that to me, I think that doesn't speak to the integrity of the type of leader that you're going to be for the Republican Party. You're just part of more of what Trumpism is and what MAGA is. And that's this reason that we're in this situation to begin with.

ACOSTA: And polling also shows Tim Scott gaining on Ron DeSantis in Iowa, Maria. The Florida governor is second with 16 percent. But Tim Scott at 11 percent.

CARDONA: Yes.

ACOSTA: There has been some talk about could Tim Scott potentially emerge here as kind of a never Trump or anti-Trump type of candidate. What do you think?

CARDONA: It's possible. But I don't think that Tim Scott has actually gone against Trump in a strong a manner as I think he should in order to really differentiate himself from Trump. The whole DeSantis thing I think is very interesting because so many Republicans had their hopes pinned on somebody like DeSantis who would come and dethrone Trump. But what DeSantis has shown is that the more people know about him, the less they like him.

And from a policy standpoint, he is so outside of the mainstream of what this country wants, I don't think he has a chance.

ACOSTA: Yes, Olivia, what happened to Ron DeSantis?

TROYE: Yes, well, look, I --

ACOSTA: They're claiming they've got time to reboot this campaign.

TROYE: You know, to her point, I have been criticized by Republicans and colleagues who have been upset with me that I have not gotten behind DeSantis. They thought that he was the best chance against Trump. But I'm like well, you know what, it's because I've been in the room with Ron DeSantis. I have seen what Ron DeSantis is. I've seen the way he treats people. I saw the way he treated Mike Pence.

I saw, you know, the personality of a doormat, too. So I mean, you know, he's not the leader I'm looking for, especially with these extreme policies that he is pushing where most of America does not want that. You know, even moderate Republicans. People are leaving the GOP because of Republicans like DeSantis, because of Republicans like Abbott from my home state of Texas, with the barbed wire thing which is horrific.

That is not what the traditional GOP was. That is a new brand of GOP and I think that's what's toxic and it's hurting the brand of the Republican Party repeatedly.

ACOSTA: All right. Maria, Olivia, great conversation. Thanks so much, ladies.

CARDONA: Thanks, Jim. ACOSTA: Really appreciate it. We'll be right back. Have fun at the

"Barbie" movie. I've heard one of you is going to get --

CARDONA: Thank you, can't wait.

ACOSTA: Yes. And we'll be right t back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:28:39]

ACOSTA: Tonight, a disturbing new statistic to tell you about in our nation's gun violence epidemic. The U.S. has now seen more than 400 mass shootings so far this year. That's according to the Gun Violence Archive. CNN and the Archive define a mass shooting as a shooting that injured or killed four or more people, not including the shooter.

For context, the U.S. had 647 mass shootings in all of 2022. And the sad thing for us on the weekends is reporting on gun violence. In Chicago this weekend the police department says that shootings in that city have left at least six people dead and more than 20 others injured. Among the dead in one shooting a 16-year-old boy.

In other news, the NAACP chapter in Columbus, Ohio, now calling a roadside police encounter gone wrong, quote, "barbaric." And before we show you the video, we want to warn our viewers that some of you might find this disturbing, but it's important to watch. The bodycam on an Ohio state trooper recorded a police dog attacking 23-year-old Jadarrius Rose, who appeared to have his hands up to surrender after a police pursuit on the highway.

Despite that officer telling another officer not to, the video shows the dog unleashed on an unarmed Rose who is heard pleading with officers to get the dog off of him.

Our Polo Sandoval is following this case for us.

Polo, walk us through what happened.

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So it all started when Ohio State Highway Patrol actually initiated that traffic stop earlier this month. However, a short time later, that's when Circleville PD from Ohio was involved and their actions are the ones that are being scrutinized here and called into question after their K9 was deployed as the suspect was seemingly attempting to turn himself in following some of the commands from State troopers.

[19:30:23]

Now another warning that the video is certainly difficult to watch and we will warn you again as the video prepares to take that disturbing turn.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SANDOVAL (voice over): The footage provided by Ohio State Highway Patrol is disturbing, but now under scrutiny after a man was mauled by a police officer's K9.

July 4th, Jackson County Ohio, a case report shows a Highway Patrol officer in a marked vehicle tried stopping the driver of this big rig for a missing mudflap. The man behind the wheel later identified by authorities as 23-year-old, Jadarrius Rose drives on and a chase begins.

About 20 minutes into the pursuit, the big rig is seen rolling to a stop.

OFFICER: Get out of the truck.

SANDOVAL (voice over): But that lasts only a few seconds. The driver continues to flee and officers stay on him for another eight minutes.

OFFICER: He drives off again. We are heading north bound.

SANDOVAL (voice over): It wasn't until police used tire deflation devices --

OFFICER: We're stopped.

SANDOVAL (voice over): That the chase came to a slow, but dramatic and disturbing stop. That's a Circleville Ohio Police Department K9 unit rolling up to the scene.

After repeated orders from State Troopers, the driver eventually steps out of the rig, his hands in the air as requested. A patrolman is heard asking the K9 to not be released, though it's unclear if he could be heard by all officers on scene. That's when the K9 is deployed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do not release the dog with his hands up. Do not release the dog with his hands up. Do not release the dog with his hands up. Don't --

Get the dog off of him.

SANDOVAL (voice over): After the K9 take down, an officer approaches then quickly walks away, her hands covering her face as Rose screams in pain.

The frustration audible in the voice of another State officer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was I not loud enough?

SANDOVAL (voice over): After the dog is removed, officers move in to arrest Rose and administer first aid.

JADARRIUS ROSE, ALLEGED SUSPECT: You just let a dog bite me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All you had to do was come to me.

ROSE: I was coming out, the gun was pointing at me. How do you expect me to respect you? You've got a gun pointing, it is like, 20 of you all. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All you had to do was stoop, fellow.

ROSE: I did stop.

SANDOVAL (voice over): A spokesperson for the Ohio State Highway Patrol tells CNN: "As troopers were attempting to gain compliance by providing verbal commands to the suspect, the Circleville Police Department deployed their K9, which resulted in the suspect being bitten."

CNN has reached out to the Circleville Police Department for comment. Police say Rose was taken to a local hospital where he was treated and released before being taken to jail.

His attorney declined to comment.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANDOVAL (on camera): Per the case report, Rose actually spoke to troopers while he was being treated at the hospital and said that he had no idea why they were trying to pull him over and he insisted that he did nothing wrong. According to that report saying that he was simply trying to haul a delivery to City Grove, Ohio before going home.

Meanwhile, the NAACP chapter in Columbus, Ohio certainly sounding off. I want you to hear directly from the president of that chapter as he spoke to our affiliate, WSYX about why this video is so appalling.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NANA WATSON, PRESIDENT, NAACP COLUMBUS CHAPTER: 2023, we have officers who are unleashing dogs on an individual who clearly had his hands in the air. That did not matter to the Circleville Police Department.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANDOVAL: And we should remind viewers that it's still unclear whether or not those commands coming from the State trooper could actually be heard by the Circleville Police officer. So that'll certainly be key here, Jim.

Meanwhile, the NAACP is calling for an investigation into the actions of that local police department earlier this month.

ACOSTA: All right, a very disturbing case. Polo Sandoval, thank you very much.

Still ahead, one week down for Hollywood actors on strike, but will the huge success of "Barbie" and "Oppenheimer" at the box office this weekend have any impact? We have a great guest coming up, actor, Sean Gunn. There he is right there.

He joins us live next. We'll talk about this with him in just a few moments.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:38:33]

ACOSTA: Actors have wrapped their first week on the picket lines after going on strike against film and television productions last week with 160,000 members. The SAG-AFTRA strike is the country's largest since 1997.

The union says payments or non-payments from streaming is making it tough for actors to earn a living and actor, Sean Gunn joins us now. You may recognize him from his role as Kraglin in the "Guardians of the Galaxy" films, those are great movies, but he's also the director of -- the brother of director, James Gunn, I should say and Sean, you also appear in the long running series "Gilmore Girls."

You said that you get almost none of the streaming revenue from that show. And so, I mean, that is something that, you know, I think folks need to hear about.

SEAN GUNN, ACTOR: Sure.

ACOSTA: Netflix won't even tell actors how much money they're earning from these streaming shows. What does it say to you about the money that these companies are making? They must be making it hand over fist if they don't want to tell us how much they're making.

GUNN; That's what I think. I mean, you know, when a company is being secret with their profits and how they're making them, I think you should be very skeptical, you know.

So by the old model, what would happen is, we would get residuals based on a show would be licensed and every time it was aired, we get a little piece of that. So if the show is a huge success in a second life, then the actors and the writers and the creators share in that success.

But now Netflix says we're just going to pay this very small sum for licensing to Warner Bros. and then we get to do whatever we want with it. And if you have a show like "Gilmore Girls," which by any metric has been a huge success on their platform, we know that tons of people have watched it, we don't share in any of that success with Netflix.

ACOSTA: And I mean, that's incredible. Let's get into what is going on with these talks. It sounds like they've just sort of ground to a halt, and the Disney CEO, Bob Iger, he is a big player, obviously, in all of this, a lot of people take cues from him. He says the actors are asking for too much and this is what he said on CNBC. We're going to watch it and talk about it on the inside.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOB IGER, CEO, DISNEY: There's a level of expectation that they have that is just not realistic and they are adding to a set of challenges that this business is already facing that is quite frankly, very disruptive.

DAVID FABER, CNBC: So they are not being realistic.

IGER: No, they're not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: So what do you think? What's your response to that?

GUNN; Well, I think, you know, too use Bob's own words, it's really a shame, and I made some comments on the picket line that a lot of people thanked me for that kind of blew up, where I think it's important to remember that there's an ethical component to all of this.

You know, CEOs in 1980 used to make something like 30 times what their lowest workers would make. Bob Iger now makes 400 times what his lowest worker makes, and I would love to ask him the question, why is that okay? Is that a good thing for -- is it a good thing for the country? Is it a good thing for your company that you're squeezing every last dollar out of the people who work for you?

And I think that for him to say it's unrealistic, is utter nonsense. He takes home a salary of forty or fifty million dollars a year. The writers crunch numbers that show that their ask would only cost Disney $75 million a year. You know, Bob alone could make up for a third of that if he cut his own salary in half.

Now, nobody is saying Bob Iger shouldn't receive a fine salary for the work that he does. But for him to say that they just don't have the profits, it is just wrong. It's just another tactic to squeeze every last penny from labor and bring it up to the CEOs as much as possible.

ACOSTA: Yes. There is a lot of money in the industry. There is certainly plenty to go around. And to that point, a lot of money is being made this weekend alone, thanks to the films "Barbie" and "Oppenheimer."

What kind of impact do you think that this will have on the negotiations? I mean, could the actors go to these talks and say, look, the industry is making a comeback. You guys were worried about people going to the movies. Folks are going to the movies again.

Wouldn't that help your side in all this potentially?

GUNN: Well, you know, if it wouldn't fall upon -- you know, if they would actually listen to us, then it might. But I think that probably both sides know that two movies isn't necessarily going to move the needle in one direction or another.

But I do think it is important to note that one thing that the success of those movies show is that these incredibly talented writers, you know, Christopher Nolan and Greta Gerwig and Noah Baumbach, and of course, all of the actors and performers and other people involved, they need us, they absolutely need us.

They can't act like we're not a vital part of the process. And I think that sometimes, they seem to think that we're expendable.

ACOSTA: And I've heard this question asked, what do you say to folks who are wondering, what do I do? Do I go see these movies? I want to go see these movies. But I also want to support the actors. We care about the actors. We care about the writers. It's a tough call, what do you say?

GUNN: It is a tough call. You know, for me, the important thing is for just all of your viewers, and for people out there who don't live in Los Angeles, or aren't as familiar with the industry to know that these are real working class people that we are talking about. They are people who are struggling to make rent, to make -- to pay their bills, to pay their mortgages. Just like in any other industry, we have a whole -- you know, we have thousands and thousands of members in both SAG-AFTRA and the WGA that are working people, trying their best to make a living and those are the people that Bob Iger is saying are being unreasonable.

And so what the average person can do is really just support labor, support and protect labor. I think we need to all do that for one another in this country, and we'll see what the union says. I know that there's been some back and forth on whether there could be some sort of a boycott or how that would look.

For now, we are trying to, you know, support independent cinema and TV shows and trying to see if we can get a little juice for the lower tier of things to maybe compete more with some of the big companies, but we'll see.

[19:45:10]

ACOSTA: All right, well, Sean Gunn, thanks very much for your time. We'll be watching. Best of luck to you. I really appreciate it.

GUNN: I appreciate it. Thanks, Jim.

ACOSTA: Thanks a lot.

We'll be right back.

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ACOSTA: Russia's military is keeping up its onslaught against the Ukrainian port city of Odesa. Airstrikes overnight destroyed homes and critical port infrastructure. Ukraine says the strikes also damaged dozens of historic landmarks including this, a direct hit on an iconic Orthodox Cathedral.

Russia has been shelling Odesa and other cities for nearly a week and CNN's senior national security correspondent, Alex Marquardt has the latest including an interview with Ukrainian Defense minister.

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Jim, it is fury. It is sadness. It is calls for more air defense support. Remember, this is the fifth wave of attacks on Odesa in just the past

week after Russia pulled out of the Grain Deal. Odesa has been relatively spared from strikes like this for the past year, but now that the Grain Deal is no longer in effect, that is no longer the case.

The worst damage today was in the historic downtown, which is a UNESCO World Heritage site. The Church of the Transfiguration, it's a cathedral suffered major damage that was among the 25 different architectural monuments, a local military official says, that sustained major damage.

At least one person was killed, a security guard and President Zelenskyy on Sunday says that Ukraine needs what he called a full- fledged sky shield, saying that that is the only way to defeat Russian terror.

Now we have heard recent calls for more air defenses from Western allies, not just from Zelenskyy, but from other Ukrainian officials, including the Ukrainian Defense minister, Oleksii Reznikov, who I sat down with this weekend for an exclusive TV interview.

It was a wide ranging conversation, but we started by talking to him about the recent NATO Summit. Ukrainian frustration about not having a concrete timeline to join NATO, and he told us he has a very specific date in mind for when Ukraine could become a NATO member. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OLEKSII REZNIKOV, UKRAINIAN DEFENSE MINISTER: It's absolutely understandable that it will be a political decision, after then, we will win this war. During this war, we have no options to have unanimous voting, because Article number five, and some countries will be reluctant.

But after the victory, after when we will win this war, it will be in the interest of NATO, because we became a real eastern shield of NATO or eastern shield of Europe. The Ukrainians proved that we have a real combat experience how to deter Russians, to defeat them, to beat them and win using NATO standard weaponry.

So how many arguments they need more?

MARQUARDT: Why do you think the United States is not saying the day after this war is over, Ukraine will be a member of NATO?

REZNIKOV: I think it is not necessary. So we will continue providing our reforms during this wartime also, but we will continue our reforms. So it means that, it will be, after one day or two weeks, but my perception, next year will be Summit in Washington, DC, 75 years history of these Allies. Who knows? Maybe it will be very important day for Ukraine.

MARQUARDT: You might expect to join NATO in a year's time?

REZNIKOV: It is just my forecast.

MARQUARDT: Do you think the war will be won by next summer?

REZNIKOV: Yes. And we will win this war.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUARDT: And to help them win the war, Jim, Reznikov told us that they need those F-16 fighter jets. He told us that training for Ukrainian pilots will begin next month. It is expected to take place in Denmark and the Netherlands, possibly the United Kingdom and Poland as well, and it won't just be pilots, it will be technicians and engineers as well.

That training expected to last at least six months, so he thinks that F-16s will be in Ukraine by early next year that could be flying above the battlefield by next spring -- Jim.

ACOSTA: All right, Alex Marquardt, thank you very much for that. You'll be able to see much more of Alex's exclusive TV interview with Ukraine's Defense minister throughout the day tomorrow right here on CNN.

New tonight, CNN affiliate News 12 Long Island reports that investigators are using a police dog and ground penetrating radar to search the home of the man suspected in the Gilgo Beach serial killer.

Next on CNN, you'll see how new technology and a discarded pizza box led police to Rex Heuermann on a new episode of "The Whole Story" with Anderson Cooper and here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: He is growing to be the suspect because you now have a car. You have a face. You have the geographic connection, but that is circumstantial. They need that thin hair of evidence that is going to go from circumstantial to certainty.

And the thin hair of evidence turns out to be a thin hair.

[19:55:09]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two of those hairs apparently according to the document that we've read can be connected to his wife and one of them can be connected straight to him.

MILLER: Now we're in a different place.

RODNEY HARRISON, SUFFOLK COUNTY POLICE COMMISSIONER: Today is a good day.

REPORTER: What did it feel like to tell the public, we got the guy. This is who he is.

HARRISON: I feel good. It's a reason why I became a police officer. Ladies and gentlemen, Rex Heuermann is a demon that walks among us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Don't miss "The Whole Story" with Anderson Cooper, next on CNN.

Thanks for joining me this evening. Reporting from Washington, I'm Jim Acosta. Have a good night.

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