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Trump Denies Directing Employees To Delete Security Footage At Mar-a-Lago; Russia Reports New Drone Attack On Moscow; Man Films Stabbing, Posts Video On Facebook; Biden Launces Income-Driven Student Debt Repayment Plan; Cardi B Hurls Mic At Fan Who Threw Drink At Her; Kamala Harris Takes Center Stage In Biden Reelection Campaign; Newcomer Vivek Ramaswamy Winning Over Some Trump Fans. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired July 30, 2023 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

PAULA REID, CNN ANCHOR: Biden administration called a wrongful detainment.

And look at this, beachgoers in New Hampshire capturing the moment a small plane crash landed into the ocean yesterday. The plane nose- diving and then somersaulting before landing upside down in the water. The pilot, the plane's only occupant, was seen swimming to shore. Remarkably he was uninjured.

And police in Burbank, California, were responding to reports of a bear sighting yesterday when they made a surprising discovery. A bear taking a dip in a resident's pool. In this heat, you can't blame it for just trying to cool off. But officials say increasingly bold bears are becoming a problem in Burbank. They're urging residents to keep a safe distance and secure their food. Bears, however cute, they may appear, should never be fed or approached.

Top of the hour. Live from Washington, I'm Paula Reid in for Jim Acosta. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

And former President Trump is pushing back on the new criminal charges he's facing. The former president took to social media today to deny that security footage from Mar-a-Lago was deleted. But that's not what he is accused of. Prosecutors allege that he and others were part of an attempt to delete the footage. Prosecutors say a Mar-a-Lago property manager Carlos De Oliveira urged another employee to scrub the footage, saying, quote, "The boss," Trump, "wanted the server deleted."

De Oliveira is accused of lying to investigators about moving classified documents at the resort along with another Trump aide, Walt Nauta, who's also been charged in this case. The indictment says the desire to have the footage deleted was part of an effort to conceal crucial information from the FBI. De Oliveira is due in federal court tomorrow morning.

Now Trump also says the footage was voluntarily handed over. That's also not true. It was subpoenaed. And last hour I spoke to former Trump attorney Tim Parlatore and he questions how much prosecutors really value that surveillance footage.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIM PARLATORE, FORMER TRUMP ATTORNEY: What is it actually going to show of, you know, Carlos and Walt actually moving these boxes? It's something that I'm surprised that they haven't played clips of it yet. I'm surprised they haven't put screen shots of it into the indictment. You know, they have pictures of boxes on stage and boxes in bathrooms, but the single most damaging thing in this indictment, the most, you know, criminal thing that it appears, they didn't put the screen shots of that in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: And I pushed back on that. Those photos are pretty damning, as I pointed out to Tim. Now Trump also says he expects two more indictments, one federal and one state, in Georgia. Both tied to efforts to overturn the 2020 election. And one of his GOP presidential rivals pounced on that today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It is most likely that by the time we get on the debate stage on August 23rd, the frontrunner will be out on bail in four different jurisdictions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: Joining us now is Renato Mariotti, a former federal prosecutor and co-host of the podcast, "It's Complicated."

Renato, it is certainly complicated when it comes to former President Trump and his legal issues. What did you make of what Tim was trying to say there? I mean, I pushed back, the idea that this is, you know, this is not significant. Of course it is, right?

RENATO MARIOTTI, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Absolutely. I also would sort of push back on what -- you know, he's saying this is the only criminal thing in this indictment. I mean, there's a lot of criminality alleged in this indictment. A pretty serious indictment I would say even before the superseding indictment, before the new allegations were added. There is a lot here. And I don't think how anyone looking at this in any sort of fair way can conclude otherwise.

REID: Yes, the Mar-a-Lago property manager Carlos De Oliveira, he's expected in federal court. He was of course added in Thursday's superseding indictments. Is it interesting to you that not only are they adding new charges, but also adding new co-defendants?

MARIOTTI: Yes. I think what it tells me is that Jack Smith is more focused on building the strongest possible case against Trump than he is on racing to the finish line or trying to get this done before the election. I think that, as a practical matter, adding another defendant is going to cause delay.

But I think there's a dynamic at play here that's important. First of all, he is basically making a statement that, you know, more and more, you know, low-level people who are involved in the scheme may get indicted. That's one thing.

[18:05:03]

I think potentially setting up some of, you know, either those co- defendants to potentially have second thoughts, just as another employee had second thoughts and ultimately, you know, changed his testimony in order to produce this additional charge. But I also think Jack Smith has really strengthened his evidentiary hand for the trial. Under the rules of evidence, now he's going to be able to bring in a lot more testimony regarding this obstructive scheme of regarding acts that weren't even necessarily within that particular venue in Florida.

And he's also now charged the document that Trump was allegedly waving around in that recording where he was, you know, talking about the fact that it was highly secretive and that he had not declassified it while he was president.

REID: I think you just referred to one of the other employees who we've identified as Yuscil Taveras, an IT worker, someone who was sort of involved in these conversations about possibly deleting footage. But he received a target letter informing him that essentially he could be charged. But then he got a new attorney, someone who is not funded by the Trump aligned PAC, and appeared to have provided some good information to prosecutors.

So it's not official cooperation deal but this is significant, right? Because this is what they tried to do with Walt Nauta, pressured him, said, look, you could be charged. He didn't break. He still has a Trump aligned lawyer. They tried to do this as well with Carlos De Oliveira. He also has a Trump aligned lawyer and did not provide the information they hoped and was charged. Yuscil Taveras went a different way. Do you think this could be the start of a trend?

MARIOTTI: I think so. It reminds me a little bit of what Cassidy Hutchinson did during the January 6th hearings, right? In other words Tavares had certain testimony he gave. Maybe it was incomplete. Once in this case he got a target letter, that's the difference between the two situations. But he got a target letter, changed his mind, and decided that he had more to offer. And obviously he is not a criminal defendant. Those other two gentlemen are.

I think the whole purpose here from Jack Smith's perspective or one of the purposes is specifically to get either of the two men that are charged with Trump to change their mind in the way Tavares did, to get them to potentially flip against Trump. I think that's certainly part of the calculus here. And by the way, there is a big difference between having one, you know, low-level person charged with Trump and two.

Because now each of those two men, you know, Walt Nauta and De Oliveira, they essentially have to be thinking about, is the other guy going to potentially change and flip first? You know, is that other guy going to stand with Trump as well? So, you know, I think it adds a certain dynamic that's helpful for Jack Smith. REID: It does. And it's interesting. I've been told by sources that

the former president has gotten a lot better about keeping people in the fold after what he learned from his experience with Michael Cohen, who famously flipped. So this is really a test of that. But I want to play something for you that Tim Parlatore also told me last hour about a possible indictment in the January 6th case.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PARLATORE: To bring an indictment before you finished your investigation, for whatever reason they may choose to do it, it feeds directly into the Trump campaign narrative about this all being about election interference. And so I think it would be incredibly stupid for them to go forward with indicting before they finish their investigation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: So there he is talking about the interviews they have scheduled with his client, Bernie Kerik, the former New York police commissioner, and other people. He's saying you can't go ahead and indict Trump before you talk to all these people. Do you agree?

MARIOTTI: Well, it's certainly not the case in most investigations. In other words, it's very possible federal prosecutors to, you know, return an indictment seek and ultimately obtain an indictment before an investigation is complete. That happens all the time. Whether it's wise for them to do so in this particular circumstance depends on, you know, whether or not what, for example, they're learning from Mr. Kerik is going to influence the charges that they bring.

But it is often the case in all sorts of federal investigations that you bring charges. You ultimately continue to investigate, sometimes with the belief that limited set of charges you brought early on might get some people to flip, or might help you obtain some evidence that will help you expand those indictments later in what's called a superseding indictment like we saw in the Mar-a-Lago case.

REID: Yes. It's a big question now, because we know there's at least three witnesses over the next four weeks, two of them are former Trump lawyers and you have Bernie Kerik, and we just don't know if they're going to do that indictment before or after they complete those interviews. I have all refundable tickets for all of my August travel.

Renato Mariotti, thank you so much.

MARIOTTI: Thank you.

REID: Now to new developments in Russia's war on Ukraine.

[18:10:00]

Ukrainian authorities say at least one person was killed and five were wounded, including a 13-year-old boy, after Russian strikes on civilian targets in the Donetsk region. In Russia's southwestern region, new images reportedly showing what Russian officials say is what's left of a drone that crashed in a rural part of that country. Officials say a home and a car were damaged. No one was killed, though, or hurt. All this comes as Russia reports another drone attack on Moscow.

CNN's Nick Paton Walsh is in Ukraine with details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: Russian officials say there were three drones in total, fired one, intercepted two, taken out by electronic jamming, but still damage inflicted on Moscow City, a very opulent part of the Russian capital. Part of the glass towers of Russia's elite. Some of that glass shattered. As possibly is the preconception they had over the past months that the war was something different, not necessarily affecting the sophisticated lives in the capital.

We've seen those slowly bids by Ukraine who did not take direct responsibility for this. More opaque statements about how Russia's tranquil backwaters were no longer so calm. Ukraine trying to impact Russian psychology by hitting areas like this. Even the Kremlin, too, subject of a drone strike.

Russia saying nobody injured in this but again it is simply a taste of what Ukrainians have been experiencing over the past nearly 18 months now. Nightly strikes often on parts of civilian in Ukraine. In Sumy, in northern Ukraine, 20 injured, two killed from Russian barrages at the same time as Moscow was being hit, and even here in Zaporizhzhia city, two dead in the last 24 hours and two injured from yet more attacks by Russia.

Russia targeting civilian areas it seems repeatedly day after day. Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy saying how these strikes on Moscow were a sign that the war was running to Russian territory but also to touting gains by Ukraine in the east near Bakhmut and also a slower, steadier, less publicly touted progress in the south near where I am here.

This counteroffensive by Ukraine moving forward, it seems, slowly. They targeted part of Russia's railway supply line up from Crimea into Zaporizhzhia in the last 24 hours as well. That's potentially key for Russia's ability to defend the frontlines it's urgently holding on to at the moment despite these Ukrainian advances.

But, still, Moscow being hit in such a way repeatedly now it seems will have an impact on those in Russia. We're told by the Kremlin that this could be a matter of days, this war, and now we're in its second year.

Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, Zaporizhzhia, Ukraine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

REID: Nick Paton Walsh, thank you.

And for more on this, I want to bring in CNN military analyst and retired lieutenant general Mark Hertling.

General, as you just heard Nick mentioned, this is the second reported drone attack on Russia's capital in just the last week. President Zelenskyy says the war is, quote, "returning to Russia's territory." Is this an effective strategy for Ukraine?

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I believe it is, Paula. And I'd read a little bit more into President Zelenskyy's comment. When he says a return to Russian territory, he is also talking about the territory they have occupied in Ukraine since 2014 and also since February '22. So he's got a nuanced approach, saying, hey, we're going after. We're taking the fight to the Russians in our occupied land as well as continuing to push them on their back feet inside of Russian territory. Not just Moscow, but Rostov and several other oblast within the Russian area.

REID: And today Ukrainian officials announced plans to attend peace talks in Saudi Arabia. Russia will not be part of those discussions, and Putin insists there will be no cease-fire while the Ukrainian counteroffensive is under way. So what is the goal here?

HERTLING: It's fascinating, isn't it? This was a little bit of a surprise announcement. I think it's twofold, Paula. First of all, you know, it's complex, as Renato just told you. I should be on his podcast because this is another complexity.

You're talking about Saudi Arabia hosting a peace conference. Now Saudi Arabia is known to be partners at times with the Russian federation. So even that is a little bit suspect. But I would suspect that they are going to look at long-term strategies for what will happen post-war in Ukraine. And I think President Zelenskyy will attend and talk about his political objectives for this war, which are continuing to regain sovereign territory within Ukraine, number one.

Number two, protect Ukrainian citizens. Even after the war ends, you're certainly going have that 1500-mile border with Russia. And then the third thing Mr. Zelenskyy is interested in is taking President Putin to the world court, to the Hague, for all of the war crimes he's committed.

[18:15:04]

So I don't think we're going see Zelenskyy giving up a whole lot at this peace conference, but it's going to be a longer term plan for what happens after Ukraine regains their sovereign territory.

REID: So on the campaign trail, former President Trump said last night that Congress should withhold aid to Ukraine until the Biden administration provides lawmakers information related to the Biden probes. Now Florida Governor Ron DeSantis was asked about that, too. He didn't answer. How worried are you about Ukraine becoming a pawn in this political fight?

HERTLING: Well, when it comes to former President Trump, Ukraine has already been a pawn in terms of many of the things former President Trump did while he was in office. This is another quid pro quo. If Congress doesn't withhold things for Ukraine, I should primary all of the people who are standing up for him. It just doesn't make sense.

We're talking about a global order here, not -- former President Trump's personal vendetta. So, yes, it's very concerning, and it's also very concerning for anyone that doesn't stand up against that kind of action when we're talking about a partner in Ukraine that's fighting for its sovereignty and freedom.

REID: General Mark Hertling, thank you.

HERTLING: Pleasure, Paula. Thank you.

REID: And coming up, a woman's dying moments allegedly posted to social media. Police now say a man is facing charges. What we're learning about this horrific case.

Plus, first on CNN, details of a new Biden administration program aimed at helping borrowers pay off their student debt. What you need know if you're one of the millions impacted.

And later, Cardi B's drop the mic moment. How the rapper reacted after someone at her performance in Vegas threw a drink at her on stage. We have the video ahead in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:21:08]

REID: A horrific story out of California, where police say a man stabbed a woman to death and posted her final moments on Facebook.

CNN's Camila Bernal is following this.

Camila, what more have you earned?

CAMILA BERNAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Paula. It really is a chilling story. We now know that 39-year-old Mark Mechikoff was arrested and is facing a felony murder charge. This is after police say he stabbed a woman and put her final moments on the internet on Facebook. Authorities say that on Wednesday they received a call from the Nye County Sheriff's Office actually in Nevada calling the San Mateo Police saying we received a call, a woman who is claiming to have watched this stabbing on social media, and that woman was able to provide the name, and she was able to provide a phone number.

So thanks to her information that was then relayed to the San Mateo Police Department, they were able to go to an apartment complex, but police saying this was a very large apartment complex and they didn't have an apartment number. So they had to go door to door trying to find the suspect or the victim in this case. Eventually it took them about three hours to find the victim. She had been stabbed to death and they were not able to find him.

It took them another two hours to find him in a nearby city in San Jose, and that's when they were able to arrest him. Authorities are saying they do have a connection. They know each other. But they don't know exactly the motive why this person did this horrific crime and then put it on social media. He was arraigned on Friday and has a public defender. We have not been able to contact that public defender. And we also reached out to Meta to try to figure out why this was on Facebook and how long it was on Facebook before authorities or even Facebook was able to take it down. But again, just horrific to see that he posted all of this on social media -- Paula.

REID: Camila Bernal, thank you for that report.

And first on CNN, details on a new Biden administration student loan plan and what borrowers need to do to get help paying off their student loan debt. Will this one stand up to possible legal challenges? We'll go live to the White House to discuss, next.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:27:49]

REID: The Biden administration is launching a beta Web site for its new income-driven student loan repayment plan today, officials tell CNN. It would allow borrowers to begin submitting applications for the program. Federal student loan payments are set to resume in October.

CNN's Arlette Saenz joins us with these new details.

Arlette, this plan is a response, of course, to the Supreme Court striking down Biden's student debt forgiveness. So this is a new way to repay. Explain.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Paula, the Biden administration is trying to offer a new step, a new relief to certain federal student loan borrowers by launching this beta Web site. This is just a test period for this Web site. But student borrowers can go in and submit their applications now.

Now who exactly would qualify for this plan? Well, it would apply to current and future federal student loan borrowers. Private loans are not a part of this repayment plan, and the plan would be based on people's incomes and also their family size.

The Department of Education is estimating that around a million people could potentially have their payments go down to zero each month based on this plan. Now it will be based on discretionary income. So that's the income that you have after you pay your taxes and other living expenses.

And just to give you an idea of who would qualify for that zero-dollar monthly payment, it would apply to those individuals making $32,805 or less, or families of four making $67,500 or less. So that gives you an idea. Then there would be other income components to it as well where people might see lower payments.

Now ultimately, when this plan is in effect for in the coming year, fully in effect, there could be student loan borrowers who see their payments completely cut in half, and also there won't be interest that's accruing during this time either. So right now what the administration has been trying to do is get this beta Web site up and running. The official launch will come a little bit later in August. But they're trying to take some steps to offer some relief to these federal student loan borrowers.

REID: Wow. So it sounds like everyone is my understanding will qualify to possibly reduce their payments, and some people if you meet those income thresholds could get their payments down to zero.

[18:30:06]

But, Arlette, before people get their hopes up, I mean, do they expect legal challenges here? And because this is something they're implementing not through Congress, what happens if Biden is not reelected?

SAENZ: Well, they're hoping that this plan would stay in place. There have been other income-driven student loan repayment plans in the past. Congress has actually given the Department of Education the authority to build those types of plans. And officials that I have spoken to said that they haven't had any successful legal challenges to these types of plans in decades.

There's been some version of this plan essentially put in place back in 1994. So the officials I spoke with feel that they're pretty confident that they have the legal standing to enact these types of programs, and they're hoping it will be around for the long haul.

REID: A lot of people out there need that help. Arlette Saenz, thank you.

And earlier this afternoon, the president and first lady were spotted taking in the sand and sun in Rehoboth Beach, Delaware. Joe and Jill Biden sat in beach chairs reading just feet from the water. The first family is expected to spend the week at the beach for their summer vacation.

And caught on camera, rapper Cardi B performing on stage when a drink came flying right at her. We will have the video of how she reacted, next in the CNN NEWSROOM.

And later tonight, the new CNN Original Series "SEE IT LOUD: THE HISTORY OF BLACK TELEVISION" explores how unscripted TV highlights black culture and talent. Here is a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Black unscripted television launches superstars.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We see some of ourselves.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And it has changed the actual world.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Admissions went up by 50 percent.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oprah was the pioneer. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Networks like BET and Bravo led the way.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ru Paul brings us into the drag experience.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To be able to talk about black joy was really important.

ANNOUNCER: SEE IT LOUD: THE HISTORY OF BLACK TELEVISION. New episode tonight at 9:00 on CNN.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:36:22]

REID: X, formerly known as Twitter, has reinstated Ye, formerly known as Kanye West's account on the site. This comes eight months after the rapper and designer was suspended for posting an antisemitic message. A few days ago, owner Elon Musk rebranded the platform to X. Now the company tells "The Wall Street Journal" that Ye will not be able to monetize his account. His account has not posted since being reinstated.

Meantime, new video tonight of Cardi B responding to a concertgoer in Las Vegas who threw a drink at her in the middle of her performance.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARDI B, RAPPER: (EXPLETIVE DELETED). (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: CNN's Chloe Melas joins us now with more.

Chloe, this is part of a disturbing new trend where so-called fans appear to be throwing things at performers. Obviously Cardi B wasn't having any of it. Now what are you learning about this?

CHLOE MELAS, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: So you see in the video quite clearly that a concertgoer throws some type of drink at Cardi B, and that's when she throws her microphone down. Now this has sparked quite a bit of a debate. Some people saying that Cardi B was too aggressive because it was a drink versus a hard microphone.

But I think that what you're seeing, Paula, is that artists are fed up. We saw Harry Styles recently get hit in the eye while performing. Drake, you know, got hurt recently but he kept carrying on. He got hit in the arm. And then you saw Bebe Rexha, who had to actually go to the hospital and get stitches when someone threw a phone and hit her in the face.

So, you know, we talked about this last night, you and I, when I interviewed Tim McGraw. And he's like this is very concerning and disappointing. And hopefully, this is going to stop or else we might see live music the way we watch it change forever. REID: You know, that's right. I mean, last night when we talked about

Tim McGraw, you have the great piece on his new tour, and he weighed in on this as well. What exactly did he say? Because of course he plays these massive arenas. You're not that close to him but he had an interesting take.

MELAS: Yes, I mean, Tim McGraw was just, you know, obviously adamant about the fact that this cannot continue. And, you know, you cannot throw hard items at individuals because it's going to get people hurt. We're not going to be able to continue the show. And I've talked to experts in the industry who said that you might even see netting get put up around the stages or perhaps your phone be confiscated when you go in.

REID: That's right. You may not be able to get your snacks or bring in your stuff.

Chloe Melas, thank you.

MELAS: Thank you.

REID: And coming up, a new role for Vice President Kamala Harris. How the Biden reelection campaign sees a part for her to play in taking on the GOP with quickly organized events.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:43:56]

REID: Vice President Kamala Harris comes out swinging for the Biden reelection campaign. Earlier this month, she went to Florida to challenge governor and presidential candidate Ron DeSantis over the state's new curriculum standards on black history. And she continues to speak out against Republican overreach.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: These extremist so-called leaders should model what we know to be the correct and right approach if we really are invested in the well-being of our children. Instead, they dare to push propaganda to our children.

This is the United States of America. We're not supposed to do that.

All is not lost. This is a moment where, again, I will say, I do believe there is a full-on attack against hard-won freedoms. But we have power.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: CNN's senior reporter Isaac Dovere joins me with more.

[18:45:02] All right, it seems at times the Biden White House hasn't quite known exactly how to use the vice president. Now on the campaign trail, it feels like they're coming up with a strategy here, according to your new reporting?

ISAAC DOVERE, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and it's not just the Biden White House. The vice president herself and her aides have really struggled with this at times, trying to figure out what to do with her, what's her role, how she fits in, how far to put her out there. But as we're gearing up into reelection campaign time here, the Biden campaign has been very eager to isolate moments in the Republican primary campaign, things that are coming out of the presidential candidates that they think tell a story of extremism.

And they feel like Kamala Harris is the person to go in there, and elevate those moments, get people talking about them, like she did in Jacksonville. We've got a week of coverage and of conversation among a lot of the Republican candidates, other Republicans beating up Ron DeSantis that in part was spurred by what Harris did. And that's where they want her to be. And if you look at what she did, she was in Iowa talking about reproductive rights on Friday after the state passed a ban on abortion after six weeks.

She was in Boston yesterday. And there is a tweet that went out from her office earlier today that said there is going to be more. Look, this is what she did just in the last week. There is going to be more of this. They are finding that -- in campaign terms, they talk about this as rapid response. And she's essentially now becoming the rapid response operation for the Biden campaign.

REID: How do her comments fit into the overall strategy with dealing and engaging with Republican opponents?

DOVERE: Look, the idea here for the Biden campaign is to keep Joe Biden out of the fray until probably the beginning of next year. They don't want him directly engaging. But they do want people to be paying attention, as I said, to these moments that they want to think of as extreme and as representing all the Republicans as extreme, trying to make them toxic to voters going into 2024.

And Harris is the one who can do that in a way that gets a lot of attention. She is the vice president after all, but that does it without bringing the president himself into it.

REID: Isaac, thank you so much.

DOVERE: Thank you.

REID: And one Republican presidential candidate says he is this election cycle's political outsider. He is winning over some Trump supporters, but how is he different from the former president? A closer look at Vivek Ramaswamy, next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VIVEK RAMASWAMY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yes, I do believe I will move us forward, and yes, I think one of the right ways to do that is to pardon the former president of the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: And now this week's CNN Hero. After the pandemic, math and reading scores in the U.S. fell into levels not seen in decades. Yet black children had long lagged behind in literacy. Only 17 percent of black fourth graders are able to read proficiently.

But this week's CNN Hero is working to change that. Meet Alvin Irby.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALVIN IRBY, 2023 CNN HERO: What's up, man? How you doing?

We install a child-friendly reading space in the barbershop. We literally ask little black boys what do you like to read? And then those are the books that we distribute to our national network of barbers.

Use the opportunity when they're sitting in the chair to just even talk to them about books. Many black boys are raised by single mothers. So there is this opportunity to support barbers in becoming.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How is the book going so far?

IRBY: Black male reading role models.

I'm just excited that we get to create a safe space for boys to do something that is really life-changing. That's what I really believe reading is. It unlocks potential.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: To learn more about Alvin's program go to CNNheroes.com. And don't forget to nominate someone you think should be a hero. Nominations close July 31st.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:53:19]

REID: Even with all of Donald Trump's legal problems, worsening this past week, one of his GOP primary opponents not only continues to defend the former president, but Vivek Ramaswamy is repeating his pledge to pardon Trump if elected.

Ramaswamy appeared on CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION" this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAMASWAMY: I would pardon him. I intend to be our next president. And yes, I do believe I will move us forward. And yes, I think one of the right ways to do that is to pardon the former president of the United States from what is clearly a politicized prosecution.

(END VIDEO CLIP) REID: He may be a newcomer to the GOP field of national politics, but as CNN's Elle Reeve discovered, Ramaswamy is winning over some Trump fans.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ELLE REEVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Vivek Ramaswamy is a 37- year-old extremely wealthy pharmaceutical entrepreneur, running for president as a Republican. He captured conservatives' attention after writing a book on wokeness and tweeting a lot. In polls, he's competitive with seasoned politicians.

RAMASWAMY: Thank you.

REEVE: We asked people what they liked about him at a Turning Point Action Conference where he was speaking. The event was attended by some 6,000 conservatives, most of whom cheered wildly for the headliner, Donald Trump.

(On-camera): Tell me what you think about Vivek Ramaswamy.

KAREN COLBY, CONFERENCE ATTENDEE: I'm excited by Vivek because I see a newness in him. I like his goals. I like his values. I like what he says.

MICHAEL FRANCHEK, CONFERENCE ATTENDEE: I first really came to know Vivek from the speech he gave at the NRA convention. Trump had spoken at that same conference, and he was, yes, how to put, it was very Trumpy. Vivek came in and had a real direct appeal. It was not about him. It was about the audience.

RAMASWAMY: I came here to tell you why I became a gun owner.

REEVE (voice-over): He's getting praised among supporters of Donald Trump who he's promised a pardon if elected. And he says he'll further Trump's America First agenda.

[18:55:07]

(On-camera): So they've got a wall here where people can put post-It notes about what they think about each candidate. Some say nice things, some say bad things. We can't even tell this is Trump's head anymore. Daddy, handsome. Save us. You're our last hope.

So here we have Mike Pence, generally negative tone. We've got a traitor, you lost, loser. So Vivek, we've got a whole variety. We've got Vivek have my children. Vivek is brilliant, future president. I like you but you'll never win, possibly VP.

Tell me what you read on the post-It.

FRANCHEK: On the Vivek Post-It?

REEVE: Mm-hmm.

FRANCHEK: I wrote great guy, great VP. REEVE: Why VP?

FRANCHEK: I'm not sure that he's seasoned enough yet.

SAM MATTHEWS, CONFERENCE ATTENDEE: I think Trump is going to win, but I'm voting for Vivek Ramaswamy.

REEVE: And what is your path to the nomination aside from Trump, for whatever reason, dropping out of the race?

RAMASWAMY: The path is very similar to the trajectory that he took as an outsider the last time coming in. I'm pulling ahead of where he was in June of 2015. The debates haven't even started. I think the debate stage is going to be critical.

JASON BREWSTER, CONFERENCE ATTENDEE: I think that both him and Trump have a fighting chance.

REEVE: Do you think he'd do well on a debate?

BREWSTER: I think he'd sweep the floor with Ron DeSantis. That's for sure.

REEVE (voice-over): DeSantis has fallen out of favor with some in this crowd, but that didn't kill their appetite for a campaign against wokeness.

RAMASWAMY: Woke capitalism is bad for capitalism, but it's also bad for American democracy.

REEVE: A big part of Ramaswamy's message has been against woke corporations that he says are promoting messages of diversity that hurt their own profits.

(On-camera): So what do you think about Ramaswamy's campaign against woke capitalism?

DOLAN BAIR, CONFERENCE ATTENDEE: I think a lot of these big companies like Disney, they do push more liberal agendas. I mean, I'm not thinking like Apple or like Google. Even though they are private companies, they are so large that you can't just avoid them. They also give all these -- they give Pride Month, you know.

REEVE: So what do you think of the argument that gay people were historically marginalized, oppressed, can't even have their own bars, they got raided all the time, and so Pride Month now exists to not to give them a leg up, but to say, yes, you are equal members of society?

BAIR: I think that's a fair point that, you know, they were treated unfairly throughout history. But at what point does Pride Month go away? When does Pride Month become two months? When does it become pride year?

REEVE (voice-over): Ramaswamy is known for giving a lot of interviews.

RAMASWAMY: Let's talk about woke capitalism. This new sort of we'll call it the woke left. They blow that what I call woke smoke.

REEVE (on-camera): When you talk about anti-wokeism, like my objection to it is not that --

RAMASWAMY: I'm going to stop you right there.

REEVE: Yes.

RAMASWAMY: Because you -- I feel like you keep putting words in my mouth.

REEVE: OK. When you talk about wokeism --

RAMASWAMY: I never talked about anti-wokeism.

REEVE: Sorry, sorry, sorry.

RAMASWAMY: I talk about national identity.

REEVE: When you talk about wokeism as a negative thing, my objection to --

RAMASWAMY: As a symptom of a deeper cancer.

REEVE: OK. Well, a symptom of cancer is not a positive thing.

RAMASWAMY: No, but it's your decision about how I would talk about it. It's a symptom.

REEVE: My objection is not that there's not annoying people on Twitter, like, of course, there are.

RAMASWAMY: Yes, let's put that to one side.

REEVE: But there are problems of racism in this country. And I have concerns that what you're telling the audience is like, actually, no, there isn't. There's no more problems. There's nothing that needs to be addressed. There are no more disparities. You don't have to worry about that anymore. And you can even be angry that someone asked you to worry about that.

RAMASWAMY: I think the right way to deal with what I view as the last final burning embers of racism is to let that quietly burnout rather than trying to put that fire out by accidentally thrown kerosene on it.

REEVE (voice-over): But those embers don't always go out quietly, which was evident even at this conference.

(On-camera): We have a little bit of the dark side here. We have a Star of David crossed out that says, soon. Now that's a 4chan joke, saying there'll be another holocaust. We also have 1488. That is also a Nazi joke. So we've got two Nazi jokes here. Everything else, though, pretty positive.

(Voice-over): When CNN pointed out these notes, a Turning Point spokesman took them down.

(On-camera): You're not responsible for the people who put that up, but it was just a very stark reminder that that kind of bigotry still exists. And it isn't a lot of places that you wouldn't expect.

RAMASWAMY: I can't speak to that particular instance. I'll tell you my experience in this country. Have I experienced racism? Yes, I have. But I reject the myth that hardship is the same thing as victimhood.

That is why we led Affirmative Action in every sphere of American life.

BOB RIVERNIDER, CONFERENCE ATTENDEE: Running against Donald Trump is a death of shot for any political campaign. However, Vivek is someone who was getting name recognition by running.

BAIR: I don't know that he should be the next president, but I think he does have a place in politics.

REEVE: Like what would that place be them?

BAIR: I think particularly like an adviser to Trump. I think he's got some good America First ideas.

REEVE (voice-over): Elle Reeve, CNN, West Palm Beach.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

REID: Top of the hour, live from Washington, I'm Paula Reid in for Jim Acosta. You are in the CNN NEWSROOM.