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Trump Attorney Gives New Pushback; U.S. Falls To Sweden On Penalties At Women's World Cup; Simone Biles Wins First Competition After 2-year Break; 66 Million People At Risk Of Severe Storms In Parts Of Midwest And South; President Biden Heads West To Sell His Economic Policy; Niger Coup Leaders Face Deadline Today To Reinstate President. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired August 06, 2023 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:00:31]

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: Happening now in the NEWSROOM.

A heartbreaking loss for U.S. Women's soccer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Off the post. Sweden can win on this kick.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Plus, one-on-one with Donald Trump's lawyer who claims Trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election were aspirational, not criminal.

And lost at sea for two days in a boat only 12 feet long. We'll show you the incredible rescue.

And you're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

Hello, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me this Sunday. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

Former president Donald Trump's lawyer speaking out this morning, doubling down on his argument that Trump was within his First Amendment rights when he asked former vice president Mike Pence to overturn the election results and that it all boils down to the way he asked.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN LAURO, DONALD TRUMP'S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: And all of this played out in the open. It's all free speech. There was a Supreme Court decision Hammerschmidt (ph), which is right on point, that says when you're exercising free speech, you're not engaging in a fraud on the government. And that's what unfortunately most people don't understand in this context. It's very political.

(CROSSTALK)

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: That's just one -- that's just one example of the actions. That's just one example of the actions in this indictment.

LAURO: Absolutely. You're entitled --

BASH: And this is a long list that you compiled from the indictment. I mean, there are -- it's more than a dozen, not speech, actions that the former president allegedly took.

LAURO: Like what? Like what?

BASH: I mean --

LAURO: Like what?

BASH: -- where do I even start?

LAURO: Like what, tell me?

BASH: Asking the Arizona speaker to interfere with ascertaining Arizona's election?

LAURO: Asking.

BASH: The Justice Department --

LAURO: Asking is speech.

BASH: But any --

LAURO: And that's the point, asking is speech. It's not action.

BASH: -- any alleged -- almost all alleged criminal activity has to do with using words and speech. And that's -- listen. This is obviously the defense that you're going to use, and it will be fascinating to see how it works out in a court of law.

I want to move on to another issue. And that is --

(CROSSTALK)

LAURO: No, no. I have to tell you though. You make an interesting point because you're saying that asking is action. No, asking is aspirational. Asking is not action. It's core free speech. The press should be defending free speech in this case.

BASH: Ok, let's talk about something else that you've repeatedly said.

(CROSSTALK)

LAURO: Because free speech is the most protected speech.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Attorney John Lauro's comments come after a federal judge denied their request for a deadline extension on a possible protective order.

And now Trump's legal team says it will fight the order and the former president is also calling for the judge overseeing the case to recuse herself.

Trump has pleaded not guilty to all federal charges against him.

I want to unpack all of this as much as we can with Harry Litman, former U.S. Attorney and former deputy assistant attorney general. And Jennifer Rodgers, CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor. Great to see both of you. All right. Harry, you first. John Lauro says asking is not action. What is your response to that argument?

HARRY LITMAN, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: It's deeply muddled. First of all, there's quite an irony in saying he was just saying pretty please to Pence. He did everything but hold a gun to his head.

But really, this speech conduct distinction doesn't matter. What Trump is charged with is agreeing to do something unlawful. That's what a conspiracy is. You do it, as Dana was pointing out, with words.

If you or I say, hey let's go rob a bank. Five little words there, and we take any action in support of it, we have broken the law.

So it's not when he's badgering Pence exactly. -- that's an act in furtherance of the conspiracy. The conspiracy is agreeing with the co- conspirators to try to delay or impede the 1/6 certification hearing, which is plainly against the law under USC-1512, et cetera.

So this aspiration or even speech conduct idea just is beside the point.

WHITFIELD: So Jennifer, John Lauro should know all of that, right? And just to remind people -- I mean perhaps he's talking to the non-legal audience out there -- but just to remind people, you know, that these alleged actions, this was at a time the sitting president was asking his vice president at the time not to certify the election.

[14:05:03]

WHITFIELD: And so now, John Lauro is saying, you know, that it didn't happen that way, that he was simply asking him, but we know by then the president saying to the vice president, he's being too honest. doesn't that simply underscore that Trump did know the truth? And that what he was asking is not protected speech?

JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, so John Lauro certainly does know better, but he has a job to do, and the current job is to try to just throw out all of these potential defenses and try to get people in the public and ultimately the jury pool to buy into some of these and think there's some legitimacy there.

I mean, of course, the evidence demonstrates that this was not just aspirational. This was criminal. He wasn't just asking, he was conspiring.

And all these things the special counsel very carefully set out in the indictment, very compellingly set out in the indictment.

And once you get within the four walls of a courtroom, everything is different. You have a captive audience there. They will listen to all of the evidence, not just sound bites on TV. And that's when John and his colleagues are going to have a big problem.

WHITFIELD: So Harry, it has to be more than that from Lauro and the rest of the defense team, right? It can't just be about First Amendment rights -- protected speech. What do you suspect is the direction in which they're going?

LITMAN: Well, they have telegraphed several things. It's a little unclear. He is trying it in the press, a very unusual kind of strategy for a defense lawyer. And maybe as Jen says, he's just trying to influence the public pool.

But they have made it clear that they're going to try several other things. They're going to argue he was acting on advice of counsel. They're going to ask for a change of venue and to disqualify the judge. They're going to say he didn't have guilty intents. He really believed that the election was rigged.

Those are the main arguments it looks like they'll trot out. And they know many of them or maybe all of them are losers. They're also thinking about which ones eat up a lot of time, say as in Mar-a-Lago, where the classified documents litigation will at least stretch out time.

I have tried to carefully look at them. We're doing a whole podcast on that for tomorrow. And there's, you know, one or two that might have some purchase, but legally, they're all bankrupt, but he's got this strange strategy where he really wants if he can to get it into past the election, win the election, and make it all go away.

WHITFIELD: And then Jennifer, you know, I want to ask, you know, about the request for the judge to recuse herself now. Trump, you know, says his legal team has powerful grounds for this request. Is this simply because they did not get the judgment they wanted on that motion that she said no to extending the deadline and thereby now the Trump team not happy with her? What would be the merit in which they claim she should recuse herself?

RODGERS: Well, they don't have any legitimate grounds at this point. I mean, we just started. She hasn't even had an appearance yet with them in front of her.

But I suspect, you know, obviously they're trying to get rid of her, they don't think that she's good for them. And I think that they might point to this motion, but denying the request to delay a briefing is obviously no basis to kick a judge off a case.

They might go more for suggestions that she's a Democrat, that she's appointed by a Democrat, supported Democrats in the past with donations and such. And that that shows that she's biased against him.

It won't work, but I think they'll kind of throw everything at it to try to get her kicked off the case because they think that she won't be fair to the former president.

WHITFIELD: And Harry, you know, Trump also argued on his Truth Social platform that he wouldn't get a fair trial in D.C., that he'll be seeking a venue change to perhaps West Virginia. I mean, on what grounds would that happen? And what would it take in order for a request like that change of venue to be granted?

LITMAN: No legal grounds. Like the motion to recuse, this is a dead loser. The idea is it's an area that voted largely against him. That's not the question. The question is can you -- that happens a lot, right -- can you put together 12 jurors who will swear and discharge an oath to look at the evidence objectively according to the facts and the law. There's no kind of venue exception for they don't like me here.

WHITFIELD: And I guess Lauro's team claiming or believing that West Virginia might be a more supportive environment because after all, we're talking about the D.C., you know, court there, just in the shadow of the alleged scenes of the crimes, Jennifer.

[14:09:51]

WHITFIELD: I also want to play, of course, now a portion of Lauro's comments this morning regarding this potential protective order.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LAURO: One thing that we are going to do is fight this very, very unusual outside of the bounds criminal prosecution of First Amendment rights vigorously in court. My focus is on addressing the issues.

One of the issues that the Biden administration will have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt is that Donald Trump had corrupt intent, had criminal intent when he protested the results of the 2020 election. That's core freedom of speech.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: So Jennifer, there is going to be a lot of supportive tape, right? Much of which the world has seen that falls right into his inquiry. How will that perhaps either the defense believe it will best serve them or prosecution hopes it will serve to support their case?

RODGERS: Yes. I mean listen, both sides have their crack at this, right. The prosecution goes first and they will be putting on lots of witnesses, showing lots of recordings, you know, putting in all of their evidence.

And the defense gets their side. And sometimes you see even the same pieces of evidence used, and you just argue them differently to the jurors.

So we'll just have to see how it all goes. I mean I don't think the focus will be squarely on recordings of what happened on January 6th. The special counsel chose not to charge a seditious conspiracy or incitement of an insurrection, probably to avoid some of the First Amendment concerns that would have cropped up with those charges. So I don't think the focus will be that.

It will be more on the scheming that happened between the election and January 6th in terms of how to stop the election from being certified.

So you know, both sides will use evidence in different ways and they'll sum it all up in the arguments and then see what the 12 people on jury decide.

WHITFIELD: All right. It sounds like there's going to be a whole lot of material that everyone is going to either re-live or see for the first time, tantamount to television clips, audio recordings, texts, and tweets -- the whole gamut.

All right. Harry Litman, Jennifer Rodgers, thanks to both of you. Appreciate it.

LITMAN: Thank you. Thanks, Jen.

WHITFIELD: All right. Coming up, a stunning and dramatic loss marking the earliest exit ever for the U.S. Women's National Team at the World Cup. What happened on the pitch?

But it was good news and an epic comeback for Simone Biles in her first competition since 2021. What she is saying about her dominating return.

Plus, a 25-year-old found alive after he was missing for days at sea. Details about the Coast Guard's rescue efforts straight ahead.

[14:12:41

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Team U.S.A. is out of the Women's World Cup.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Trying to take the lead. Or retake the lead on penalties. It's 4-4. O'Hara, off the post. If she scores, Sweden wins. The U.S. is out. If not, another round of penalties.

Did it go in?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: For Sweden, it did go in. After a dramatic penalty shootout against Sweden, the U.S. Lost by one point with a final score of 5-4.

Today's loss marks the earliest exit ever for the U.S. at a World Cup -- the Women's World Cup.

Boston Globe sports writer Frank Dell'Apa is here with me now. Frank, great to see you. So try to put into words for us, I mean, this defeat, this disappointment for the U.S.A. women's team.

FRANK DELL'APA, SPORTS WRITER, BOSTON GLOBE: Yes, tremendous disappointment. But you know, you could see it coming. And so I think not everybody is surprised.

I think actually the oddsmakers had the U.S. as a favorite in this game. Not everybody else saw that. But they played well enough to win, just didn't score the goals.

WHITFIELD: What do you mean? What do you mean, you could see it coming? What did you see along the way?

DELL'APA: Ok, just some of the numbers didn't look good. This team only scored one goal in the last 300 minutes of play. This is a team that, you know, historically averaged like I think almost three goals a game in the World Cup, certainly more than two in every World Cup.

This time, they just struggled. The first game was pretty easy against Vietnam. Call that kind of like a glorified training session. After that, they only scored one more goal. So there was something missing and, you know, it was all in the offense. The defense was great. They didn't give up any goals today and you know. So just you have to score goals at some point.

WHITFIELD: Ouch. Ok, so let's talk, you know, zero in on Megan Rapinoe. I mean this is where her career ends. She said heading into this that she was about to retire. At the same time, when evaluating her play, she missed what could have been a game-changing penalty shot during the match.

And thereby, this was her reaction to those heartbreaking moments.

MEGAN RAPINOE, U.S. WOMEN'S NATIONAL TEAM: I know it's the end and that's sad, but you know, to know that this is really the only time I have been in one of these this early, you know, says so much about how much success I have been able to have. And just how much I have loved playing for this team and playing for this country. And yes, it's been an honor.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: And we're certainly not saying that that missed penalty shot, you know, it's all on her or anything like that. I mean this is a team effort.

[14:19:46]

WHITFIELD: But you know, in totality, you really could see kind of what the loss was like for her, what it felt like. This is tough, but she has been at the apex for a very long time. So how do you kind of extrapolate what she was going through when she was talking?

DELL'APA: Yes. I really got to say it's just too bad but that's going to be the lasting memory of the last touch, the last time you saw Megan Rapinoe on the field for the U.S. And the reality is, before that, in extra time, she had a great chance, which a younger probably Megan Rapinoe would have put away. She didn't even get the shot off.

A great props from Andy Sullivan. She didn't control it, didn't one time the ball, didn't do anything you had to do to put the shot on goal.

And then it comes down to penalties which, you know, is another specialty of Megan Rapinoe. Set pieces, penalties, corner kicks, free kicks, and she didn't come through on any of that today. Too bad that's going to be her lasting memory for her last game for the U.S.

WHITFIELD: So look into your crystal ball, if you could for us. What do you see, you know, for some of the other superstars like Alex Morgan, Kelley O'Hara, Julie Ertz?

DELL'APA: You know, a lot of -- everybody is moving on, not Julie Ertz, but you know Alex will move on, Megan Rapinoe, I think -- they have to move on. It's a transition time, and this team is ready to move on.

I think the young players showed what they could do, but they're not really -- they weren't quite ready yet. You had a team in transition where Megan Rapinoe was maybe a step slower than she needed to be; Alex Morgan, the same.

And the young players didn't have quite the experience and the confidence to come through. So they were growing as the tournament went on. That's how it it's supposed to work, but you have to stay in contention.

By the fifth, sixth game they might have been ready to go. Certainly by 2027, certainly by the Olympics next year, the next Olympics they'll be ready to go. But right now, I just don't think this team was quite ready.

They (AUDIO GAP) couldn't quite get the midfield set. A lot more questions than in the past teams where they came in, they were ready to go.

WHITFIELD: All right. Well, perhaps a lot can happen in a shorter bit of time until you know, the world is watching again on this kind of scale for them.

All right. Frank Dell'Apa, thank you so much. Really enjoyed talking to you.

DELL'APA: Thanks.

WHITFIELD: And Simone Biles, she's back. And she did not disappoint. Seven-time Olympic medalist, Biles won her first gymnastics competition last night after stepping away from the sport two years ago.

CNN's Isabel Rosales has more on the GOAT's return.

ISABEL ROSALES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Fred, she is called the GOAT, the greatest of all time, for a reason here. She showed that yesterday with an incredible return to the world of elite gymnastics.

She hasn't competed in two years, yet we saw from her in this competition her taking first place all around. That is the vault, the floor routine, and the balance beam. And then taking third place over at the uneven bars, which is to be expected, even from the GOAT. She calls that her weakest apparatus.

Now, I want you to take a look at this. This is her floor routine where she does a double layout with a half turn. That is named after her. This is the Biles.

And then, on vault, performing the most incredible Yurchenko double pike. This is something that no female athlete has done before. This is widely considered the hardest women's vault in the world. And if she does this on an international stage, we are possibly looking at a fifth skill named after her again.

Now, two years ago, we saw Biles shocking the world by withdrawing from the Tokyo games after suffering from the twisties, a really debilitating mental block where gymnasts can't tell what's up from down as they're turning in midair. So very problematic there.

Ultimately, she disappeared from the world of competitive gymnastics, but now she's come back, and she's doing things in her own terms.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SIMONE BILES, U.S. GYMNAST: I always kind of knew as soon as everything that happened in Tokyo. So this time I'm doing it for me. I worked a lot on myself. And I believe in myself a little bit more. It's just coming back out here and starting those first steps again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROSALES: And Fred, you saw for yourself, this is not just about Simone Biles. This is a deeper culture than that, expanding out to the fans. Yesterday, the Now Arena was sold out, 7,200 seats filled. It is clear that fans are ready to see more from Simone Biles, Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right. And we will from the powerhouse.

All right. Thank you so much, Isabel Rosales.

WHITFIELD: All right, coming up, dangerously hot weather is posing a threat to millions. We'll tell you which states are getting hit the hardest and if there's any relief in sight.

And the U.S. Coast Guard rescues a man missing at sea for days in a partially submerged boat. The incredible survival and rescue story, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:24:37]

WHITFIELD: All right. Welcome back.

80 million people are under heat advisories or excessive heat warnings across the south and southwest. The dangerous record-breaking numbers will bring temperatures as high as 110 degrees in some parts of New Mexico and Arizona.

CNN meteorologist Allison Chinchar is tracking some of the severe storms taking place as well. So we've got extremities on both ends, right?

ALLISON CHINCHAR, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes, we do.

Extreme weather of both kinds.

So let's start with the storms because we're really starting to see a lot of them fire up right now. You've got strong thunderstorms across Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, even the Carolinas, and a newly-issued severe thunderstorm watch for portions of Alabama and Tennessee. And that's valid until about 8:00 p.m. Central Time tonight.

And that's because we anticipate even additional showers and thunderstorms to develop. The best chance for those severe storms exists in several different areas from St. Louis over to Cincinnati, stretching down into Atlanta and Montgomery.

CHINCHAR: And then by tomorrow, that severe threat not only increases but it shifts farther to the east. So, now, you're talking areas like Philadelphia, Washington, D.C., and still stretching back down towards Atlanta as well. So, a multi-day event.

[14:30:08]

So, we still have more showers and thunderstorms expected tonight, tomorrow morning as you're headed out on your commute. Places like New York, D.C., and even Boston as well, looking at some showers and thunderstorms. And then a secondary round, hitting many of those same locations all over again tomorrow afternoon and into the evening.

For the areas not getting rain, the big concern is really going to be heat. And it's pretty much encompassing all of the entire southern tier of the U.S. You've got alerts stretching from California all the way to Florida. In fact, all of Florida and all of Louisiana are under some type of a heat alert today.

Along the Gulf Coast, remember, it's not just a temperature itself but also the humidity as well mixed in. Corpus Christi topping out at 96 today. It will feel like 116. New Orleans, not much better, 97 with the feels like temperature of 113.

WHITFIELD: Wow, that is extreme. All right. Thank you so much, Allison Chinchar.

All right. And this, incredible rescue at sea. A man missing since Thursday off the coast of Florida is pulled safety by the U.S. Coast Guard. Seen here drifting in a little 12 foot boat which was starting to take on water. He was spotted by helicopter is about 12 miles offshore.

CNN's Camila Bernal is joining us with more on this.

Boy, he's lucky but how did it unfold? CAMILA BERNAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He is lucky. It's a fascinating

story here, Fred, because this is a 25-year-old who is on a 12-foot johnboat. I mean, it is just incredible.

And I actually just spoke to the owner of the shop where he works. And the owner of the shop is saying, first of all, he's okay and extremely thankful to be alive, thankful to have been rescued. The shop's owner said he talked to him and even asked him, you know, what kept you going. He said that -- Charles Gregory said he was thinking about my parents that kept him going.

So, the shop owner says, you know, he was supposed to show up to work and he didn't. He started calling him, texting him, he was telling me it's unusual for him not to text back or answer or show up to work. He says I know now that phone was at the bottom of the ocean.

He went out and what happened here is he didn't come back. And so, the Coast Guard began searching after his parents essentially reported him missing to the Coast Guard. There were boats. There were airplanes. There were helicopters looking for him.

And then, finally, on Saturday morning, that's when they were able to spot ham. You're seeing the video there. There was a crew on a boat that actually came and got him safely on board. They took him to EMS. They assessed him. They said there isn't any medical concerns.

But he is sunburn, if you look at the photo of him after he was rescued, he's pretty red. He was giving the hang loose sign there. Those are all the pictures that we've seen of him. That's the sign that he's been putting out. It's incredible to know that he was there hanging on to this boat, hanging on to his life really for hours, and hours, as he was waiting to be rescued.

So, it really is an incredible story. We've reached out to the family, waiting to hear from the dad. It's really the dad who's been taking care of them. The shop owner saying he's been standing next to him and just thanking people for their prayers and, of course, the coast guard for the work that they did to find him, Fred.

WHITFIELD: Well, that's an incredible rescue. Do we know how we got in that predicament? I mean, do we know, you know, he went out just, you know, pleasure boating, it's something he usually does, did something happen, was he swept away? What was the prelude to the actual rescue?

BERNAL: Yeah, I do believe he goes out on this boat. We are waiting to hear from the family to confirm some of these details. But I do think it's something that he likes to do. There may have been a wave but we're waiting to confirm all of that from the family to see exactly what happened to him.

WHITFIELD: Well, thank goodness, a happy ending. Can't wait to hear more from him.

Camila Bernal, thank you so much.

And we'll be right back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:38:23]

WHITFIELD: President Biden is set to travel this week to the key battleground state of Arizona and two other western states in an effort to sell his economic policy to voters. His trip will happen fresh off the Labor Department's report showing 187,000 jobs were added in the month of July. An increase the president has touted as Bidenomics, well, at work.

But it also comes as the latest CNN poll shows about two thirds of Americans disapproved of how Mr. Biden handles the economy.

CNN White House reporter Kevin Liptak is in Wilmington, Delaware, where the president's been spending the weekend.

So, Kevin, what exactly is the president looking to accomplish this week?

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, the president is really working to sell his agenda on this trip out west. And, in particular, the investments that he's made in climate change, green jobs, that sort of thing. He's part of this broader effort to sell the administration's accomplishments, including the Inflation Reduction Act which you'll remember included $370 billion to combat climate change.

Now, when he is in Arizona, sources tell us that he's considering designating a new national monument that would protect millions of acres around the Grand Canyon. This is something that native tribes have been lobbying for four years. And it would prevent a new mining in the area. So the president really trying to bolster his climate agenda ahead of the 2024 election.

Of course, this is an issue that is critical for key members of the president's political coalition. Liberal Democrats, young voters, they haven't always been satisfied with the presidents record in this area when it comes to drilling, when it comes to mining. And so, the president really working to boost enthusiasm among those groups as he heads into the election.

Now, this is part of a broader effort, administration-wide effort to sell the president's economic agenda in the month of August, and they do believe they have a good story to tell, inflation is slowing, consumer sentiment is ticking up, hiring remains strong. But as you mentioned, there is this disconnect in the poll last week. Seventy- five percent of Americans said that economic conditions were poor. So, it will be the president's objective to sort of close the gap, his singular challenged in this election year, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right. Kevin Liptak, thank you so much.

Republican White House hopefuls have a new target, not President Biden himself but his number two. Some even going as far as to say that a vote for Biden who would be 82 at the start of his second term would really be a vote for Kamala Harris who is 22 years his junior.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If we math this one, and Biden gets in again, heck, you may end up with Kamala as president.

NIKKI HALEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If you vote for Joe Biden, you really are counting on a President Harris, because the idea that he would make it until 86 years old is not -- is not something that I think is likely.

CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He thinks his act looks bad now. Wait until he's 83, and 84, and 85, and 86. And, by the way, in case, he doesn't, you get Kamala Harris.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

WHITFIELD: CNN political reporter, Daniel Strauss, is following the story from Washington for us.

Daniel, great to see you.

So, will this GOP strategy work? I mean, after all, GOP presidential candidate leader Trump is 77 years old.

DANIEL STRAUSS, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: Yeah, and that remains to be seen. But look, there's a big difference in how a big swath of the Republican Party views Trump and Biden. And they genuinely view Trump as more vital, a spry, young 77 to Biden's much more mature 80-something right now.

It's rare that attacking a vice presidential candidate brings down a ticket unless it's some very, very gross or egregious sort of attack line. Here, though, it might -- it might make a difference simply because both the vice president's approval numbers and the president's approval numbers are underwater.

And the attacks, the criticism, the warnings that Vice President Harris could be president one day in -- if Biden doesn't finish his term is really meant as a warning against Biden, or a vote for Biden again. So, it is an indirect attack or criticism around Biden even though on the surface, it is about Kamala Harris.

WHITFIELD: All right. Daniel Strauss, we'll leave it there for now, thank you.

All right. Charles Ogletree, civil rights attorney and Harvard law school professor, has died. And through his lifetime, he mentored a number of high-profile luminaries including President Barack Obama and First Lady Michelle Obama. Ogletree retired from Harvard in 2020 after he was diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease, which the school says was his cause of death. He's known for representing clients including Anita Hill, Tupac Shakur, and the victims of the 1921 Tulsa race riots. He also became one of the foremost legal advocates for reparations. And in a statement, the Obama's called Ogletree unfailingly helpful and driven by a genuine concern for others. He was 70 years old.

Still ahead, coup leaders in Niger are facing a deadline today to return the deposed president to power. What their decision could mean for 1,000 U.S. troops stationed there. And the fight against terror groups in the region.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:48:35]

WHITFIELD: Today is the deadline Niger coup leaders were given to reinstate the president they removed from power. A bloc of West African countries set the deadline at a meeting last week. The same group also drew up a plan for potential military intervention if the coup leaders did not step aside.

In Niger's capital today, thousands demonstrated in support of the coup's leader as the deadline arrived. The U.S. has not formally decided if the situation constitutes a coup. About 1,000 U.S. troops are currently stationed in this country. For the moment, they're being restricted to the base as the situation of all this.

With us now is Declan Walsh. He is the chief Africa correspondent for "The New York Times".

Declan, great to see you.

So, if the coup leader refuses to restore democracy and the president -- which is likely the case, right? What could happen next?

DECLAN WALSH, CHIEF AFRICA CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Well, it's really hard to know as you say there's been huge buildup over the last couple of days with both sides taking very strong positions. We have the coup leaders saying that they intend to press ahead, this regional group, ECOWAS, saying for its part that it was threatening potential military intervention if the coup was not reversed by today.

Now, that deadline has passed. And as yet there's been no sign of military intervention. In fact, the coup leaders held a giant rally at a sports stadium in the capital Niamey with them, many thousands of people chanting slogans against a regional group, and against the former colonial power, France.

[14:50:13]

So, that's a sign of how both sides have dug their heels. And it's really unclear who's going to effectively blink first and back down here with the standoff.

WHITFIELD: So, this ECOWAS, this is the bloc of West African nations. Why would they not be popular, why would they not have leverage here?

WALSH: Well, I think for the leaders of ECOWAS, they've seen this very alarming round of military took over in that region, often involving many of their own members for the last three years. If this coup succeeds, it'll be the six successful coups in West Africa since 2020.

So, the leaders of ECOWAS, led by the president of Nigeria, Bola Tinubu, really want to try and draw a lead line under these coups. The difficulty is that in Niger, on the streets, there seems to be some suggesting that there's some support for this coup. And, you know, the coup has tapped into latent anti-French, anti -- you know, France was formally the colonial power in Niger, it's tapped into that sentiment. So, yeah, they've really -- it's a difficult situation for them.

WHITFIELD: So, the U.S. now, I mean, it's not officially calling it a coup. And apparently doing that, calling it a coup would a trigger sanctions, removal of U.S. troops. So, what is the fine line you believe that the U.S. might be walking right now in trying to stay abreast but trying to differ from involvement?

WALSH: It's a really tricky situation for the U.S. The U.S. has already suspended some military and economic cooperation with Niger. Under the law, if the coup were determined to have taken place it would suspend all that assistance.

But it's worth noting that the law even if that were to happen the law would not require the U.S. military to pull out per se. There is also a waiver provision and that was introduced last week that Congress could invoke if it wanted to on national security grounds. So, at the moment, it seems like that the U.S. is taking effectively a political approach to this. It's holding out to this idea that if enough pressure is put on the military junta, that the coup could be reversed.

And it's hoping that will happen. We are now nine, ten days into the coup. Usually it's difficult to reverse these things once you get this far end. It's unclear for how much longer that position will be attainable.

WHITFIELD: Jacqueline, have a listen to what Niger's ambassador to the U.S. said about the situation?

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KIARI LIMAN-TINGUIRI, NIGER'S AMBASSADOR TO U.S.: If Niger collapses, the entire Sahel will collapse, will be stabilized. With this stabilization, there will be any way to protect Coastal African countries, countries on the West Coast. And you will have Wagner, and the jihadist controlling Africa from the coast to the Mediterranean.

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WHITFIELD: How real is that fair?

WALSH: Well, that is certainly the argument that President Bazoum and his -- and his officials are making. There is saying that this coup presents an opportunity for two forces, both of whom who are effectively hostile to the west. One is the Islamist groups that have been rampaging across the region. And the second one is Wagner, which has forces already stationed in Mali, the country next door to Niger. But, frankly, even the fact that the junta actually has tried to dismiss the ambassador to the U.S., that gentlemen and several others, the fact the President Bazoum has continued to give interviews, to -- to tweet, to make phone calls. He recently wrote an op-ed in "The Washington Post". All those things point to what an unusual coup this is, and how there's a sense that it's still playing out even though the time, the clock is ticking, all those efforts to try and push back.

WHITFIELD: All right. Declan Walsh, chief African correspondent for "The New York Times", coming to us from Nairobi -- thank you so much.

WALSH: My pleasure.

WHITFIELD: Still ahead, a preview of Donald Trump's legal strategy. What his lawyer told CNN this morning about their plans for the 2020 election subversion case.

But first, here is this week's staying well.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANIE CHANG, LICENSED MARRIAGE AND FAMILY THERAPIST: Stress is a part of life. Burnout, not necessarily so.

I was in journalism. I actually loved it. But the bottom line is I wasn't managing my stress. I was ignoring it.

So, even in my early twenties I wanted to burn out and left the field.

[14:55:03]

You can love what you do. But go into burnout because you're not managing your stress effectively.

Stress is where you're very overwhelmed, you're still believe it or not hopeful that you can change that, burnout you're more hopeless. You've lost interest in the things that you used to enjoy. You don't feel like you are valued at work. You're doing too much. Or not feeling challenged.

No one's immune to burn out. The best way is to manage our stress each day. What are your coping mechanisms, what are the things that get you excited in life? I watch Korean dramas to help me express my emotions. I also enjoy taking walks. Being active really helps me. Pets can also be a source of comfort that you need.

Number one thing of course and it's not just because I'm a therapist is to seek professional help. There's no one right can't direct except doing what's best for you, and prioritizing that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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