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Trump Attorney: Asking Is Aspirational, Not Action; US Falls To Sweden On Penalties At Women's World Cup; Russian-Backed Official: Ukraine Used UK-Supplied Long-Range Missile In Attack. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired August 06, 2023 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:25]

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm Fredericka Whitfield.

All right, we begin this hour with Donald Trump's attorney doubling down on his argument that Trump's request to then Vice President Mike Pence to overturn the election is within his rights of free speech, saying it all comes down to the way he asked.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN LAURO, DONALD TRUMP ATTORNEY: But when it comes to political speech, you cannot only advocate for position, but you can take action. You can petition. You can ask even your vice president to pause the vote for a period of time in order to allow the states to recertify.

DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR AND POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: But you can't break the law, which is what this indictment alleges.

LAURO: What was said --

BASH: It alleges that he caused actions like approving fake --

LAURO: What was it that was caused --

BASH: Okay.

LAURO: What was it that was fraudulent?

BASH: I will tell you what the indictment says.

LAURO: No, no. Go ahead.

BASH: That he attempted to cause actions like approving fake electors, opening sham fraud investigations and obstructing the certification of the election. Whether he can prove that that's going to happen in the trials.

LAURO: Okay, let's --

BASH: I am just saying what's in the indictment. LAURO: Yes, but let's -- right, and let me take the first thing, the

question about electors, okay? Alternate electors are used in every four-year cycles, okay. The Senate parliamentarian acknowledged to Vice President Pence that they always receive protest alternate electors. None of those electors were counted.

Vice President Pence was completely aware of the nature of the protest of the nature of the right to speech.

BASH: They weren't counted because Mike Pence rejected the scheme, that's why they weren't counted.

LAURO: Absolutely, and that's how -- that's how the -- of course, and that's how the political process works, but there was no defrauding.

BASH: No, it doesn't.

LAURO: There was no trickery, there was no deceit because everybody knew what was happening out in the open.

BASH: Because if Mike Pence had said yes, then that's exactly what would have happened.

LAURO: No, because thankfully, with freedom of the press --

BASH: I don't want to -- I don't want to go down --

LAURO: You have to let me finish though because you know, and no, but you asked me a question.

BASH: Go ahead.

LAURO: And I hope you are going to let me finish because the government alleges deceit or trickery and all of this played out in the open. It is all free speech.

There was a Supreme Court decision Hammerschmidt, which is right on point that says when you're exercising free speech, you're not engaging in a fraud on the government.

BASH: Okay.

LAURO: And that's what, unfortunately, most people don't understand in this context.

BASH: That's just one example of the actions.

LAURO: Now, it is very political.

BASH: That's just one example of the actions in this indictment.

LAURO: Right. But, but -- absolutely. But you're entitled --

BASH: And this is a long list that we've compiled from the indictment. I mean, there are -- it is more than a dozen, not speech, actions that the former President allegedly took. LAURO: Like what? Like what?

BASH: I mean, where do I even start?

LAURO: Like what? Tell me, what actions?

BASH: Asking the Arizona speaker to interfere with ascertaining Arizona's electors.

LAURO: Asking -- asking.

BASH: The Justice Department --

LAURO: Asking is speech.

BASH: But any --

LAURO: Asking is speech. It is not action.

BASH: But any alleged -- almost all alleged criminal activity has to do with using words in a speech.

LAURO: No.

BASH: Listen -- you -- this obviously the defense that you're going to use --

LAURO: No.

BASH: And it will be fascinating to see how it works out in a court of law. I want to move on to another -- to another issue.

LAURO: No, no, but you're -- I have got to tell you, though, but you make an interesting point, because you're saying that asking is action, no asking is aspirational. Asking is not action. It is core free speech. The press should be defending free speech in this case.

BASH: Okay, let's talk about something else that you have repeatedly said.

LAURO: Because free speech is the most protected speech.

BASH: And that is that the former president ...

LAURO: Anything.

BASH: ... Ultimately asked his vice president only for a pause in the electoral count.

LAURO: Right.

BASH: But it follows weeks --

LAURO: That was one of the things, intimately the final -- the final ask, right --

BASH: Okay.

LAURO: The final ask in the Ellipse was that, which was he -- President Trump was following the advice of his lawyer.

BASH: Okay. The word ultimately, I've heard you use many times. The word ultimately is doing a lot of work...

LAURO: Yes.

BASH: ... in that sentence. I know you're intentionally using the word ultimately, because that point -- at that point --

LAURO: I am using ultimately because it's the truth.

BASH: I know, you're right. It is the truth because at that point, he was asking for a pause.

LAURO: Right.

BASH: But it is only because -- it is only because --

LAURO: And I am entitled to advocate on behalf of a client.

BASH: It is only because for many, many, many other asks before that, what the former president was asking Mike Pence to do was to completely stop -- stop it and reject it. And that is the point that Mike Pence was making.

LAURO: Well, let me --

BASH: That it got to the point where he said pause --

LAURO: Can --

BASH: Because Mike Pence says I am not going to reject it.

LAURO: Can I respond?

BASH: Sure.

LAURO: Okay, okay. So what we have and many people don't understand this is a memo from John Eastman, an esteemed constitutional scholar laying out a number of scenarios. Those scenarios were presented to Vice President Pence.

[15:05:10]

He considered them and as a constitutional matter, he rejected them. One of the last and the ultimate requests that President Trump made was to pause the voting for 10 days to allow the states to recertify or certify or audit, and Mr. Pence rejected that as well.

After that, there was a peaceful transition of power. So that's how the Constitution work.

Now, one thing that needs to be clear is -- BASH: What happened on January 6th was not peaceful.

I want to ask you something about John Eastman, because you've talked a lot about how he is a respected constitutional attorney.

LAURO: The transfer of power was certainly peaceful.

BASH: Did you see what happened on January 6th. Did that look peaceful to you?

LAURO: Did you -- I'm not saying that that was in any way appropriate, but the ultimate power of the presidency was transferred to Mr. Biden, we all know that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right, let's talk further now. I want to discuss this with CNN contributor and former Nixon White House counsel, John Dean.

John, great to see you. I mean, I'd love to get your reaction to now, is this a window into Trump's defense?

JOHN DEAN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, it's hard to believe they're going to really push this defense in a courtroom.

First of all, the judge could well put some limits on it. There's a lot of case law. These kinds of arguments have been in court many times, where they've tried to say that the crime really was speech and the speech was protected by the First Amendment. It is not.

They have so carefully drafted this indictment to avoid the First Amendment problems, that I think it is bulletproof. So I don't think this approach is going to work. It works publicly. He can get out and debate with news people as to what the president was or was not doing, and it is not a courtroom. It's a very different situation.

Also, he is taking the story out of context, where in court, it will be presented in a flow of facts and witnesses, and it's going to look very different when Mike Pence says, he, in essence, was being told what to do and refused to do it.

WHITFIELD: Lauro, you know, in that interview, you heard him he says, asking is aspirational, not action. Is that what the law says? Especially if it pertains to -- I mean, there are attempted obstruction charges in this indictment here. Why is attempted robbery, attempted obstruction? Why are those crimes?

DEAN: People like Trump, and like my former boss, Mr. Nixon, often posed their commands as questions. At one point in the Watergate cover up, Nixon said to me, don't you think it'd be a good idea to pay Hunt, the money he is demanding? That was aspirational? Not at all. I didn't do anything in that particular instance. But you find that sort of thing with mob bosses often.

Trump suggestions as Michael Cohen has explained, were often code language for what he wanted done, and people who are around him understood that, everybody understood what Trump wanted. He wasn't fishing for would the vice president do this, and the vice

president didn't read it that way. So he might try to cast this as aspirational, as a public relations argument. It's not going to work in court.

WHITFIELD: In fact, as it pertains to Mike Pence, the former vice president, just this morning, he left open the possibility that he would testify if necessary. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE PENCE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I have no plans to testify, but look, we'll always -- we'll always comply with the law.

But look, I want to tell you, I don't know what the path of this indictment will be. The president is entitled to a presumption of innocence. He's entitled to make his defense in court, there actually are profound issues around this pertaining to the First Amendment, freedom of speech and the rest.

I'm confident he and his lawyers will litigate all of those things.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: So how might Pence's testimony undermine Trump's claims that he was asking not demanding?

DEAN: Well, in many ways, and Mike Pence will not volunteer to come in. He will get a subpoena that will request the show up at the courthouse on a given day and time. So he has no intention to testify. He knows very well he is going to be requested to testify based on the indictment and he is going to be an important witness, and his testimony will help to sink and convict if any jury is fair-minded, and looks at the facts.

[17:10:13]

WHITFIELD: We also learned from this week's indictment that Trump accused Pence of being too honest. When the vice president said he lacked the authority to change the election results, so that was an admission, is it not, from Trump that he actually did know what was right, that the people around him were telling him, you lost, even though now he, through his defense is saying it's what he believed. He believed that he won.

DEAN: Well, of course, Trump has denied that he made that statement. What he wasn't aware of at the time he blurted that reaction out was that Mr. Pence was making notes. So he has a contemporaneous note of what the president said. That's pretty persuasive and very admissible if they indeed contest his testimony.

WHITFIELD: John Dean, great to see you. Thank you so much.

DEAN: Thank you. WHITFIELD: Right now to a heartbreaking defeat for Team USA at the

Women's World Cup. They lost a day after a dramatic penalty shootout against Sweden, and it marks the earliest exit ever for the US at a World Cup.

CNN Sports anchor and correspondent, Don Riddell joining me right now. So yes, this is heartbreaking for the team. Why are you chuckling? Did you see this coming, too?

DON RIDDELL, CNN WORLD SPORT HOST: No. Okay, so, I'm an England football fan.

WHITFIELD: Right.

RIDDELL: I know what it's like to sit through penalty shootouts and lose them. It's absolutely miserable. You know, penalties are one of the most exhilarating thing in all of sports. Unless your team is involved in them, and then they can be an absolute nightmare, and that is the situation that the American team found themselves in today.

Shall I show you how it all went down?

WHITFIELD: Please, do.

RIDDELL: I mean, you know, heading home after a dramatic loss to Sweden, and in the end, the difference was about as thick as this piece of paper.

After 90 minutes and extra time, it was goalless. That's when the drama really began. The first five penalties were all scored Sweden's Nathalie Bjorn was the first to miss. That meant the American legend, Megan Rapinoe had the chance to give her team a commanding lead, but she blazed her kick over the bar. Normally so composed and reliable, she can only laugh at the agony, but now everyone is nervous for jangling Rebecka Blomqvist stepped up only to be denied by a brilliant saved from the US goalie, Alyssa Naeher, and that meant Sophia Smith had a chance to win it for the Americans, but she missed as well.

The pressure now almost intolerable. The US team was hoping to win a third straight World Cup, but Kelley O'Hara shot against the post, it was their third miss out of four kicks, and it was Lina Hurtig who won it for the Swedes, but they had to wait to celebrate. It seemed as though Naeher had saved her kick, but goal line technology reviewed that it had crossed the line, but only just. It really couldn't have been any closer.

WHITFIELD: Wow.

RIDDELL: The ball was over. The game was over, and for the US legend, Megan Rapinoe, her remarkable career is now over, too.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MEGAN RAPINOE, US WOMEN'S NATIONAL TEAM: I still just feel really grateful and joyful, and you know, I know it's the end. And that sad, but you know -- to know that this is really the only time I've been in one of these, this early, you know says so much about how much success I've been able to have and just how much I've loved playing for this team and playing for this country. And yes, it's been an honor.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Wow, it's been incredible. I mean, valiant and we all celebrate them, even as I asked you earlier because you were smiling. I talked with a sports writer earlier who said he saw a lot of -- you know, he kind of saw it coming in that he saw a lot of kind of errors or missed opportunities. Do you feel the same way?

RIDDELL: Yes. I mean, this is a team that I was going to say had to easy, they haven't had it easy. They've had to work for their success, but they've been hugely successful, making at least the semifinals in every World Cup tournament they've played.

But coming into this one, things just kind of felt a bit different even before the tournament kicked off. Once the games got underway, there were alarm bells ringing. The fact that they couldn't score in back-to-back games for the first time ever in the World Cup. Clearly, they had issues and there are some things that we can acknowledge.

I think this team has been under a lot of pressure off the field in the last four years with all the battles they've been undergoing in terms of kind of equal pay, and conditions in which they have been hugely successful.

They've helped really set the standard for the women's game globally, but that means all of these other teams have now caught up and we're seeing that in this tournament so many huge upsets, not just the USA earlier today.

But something else we should maybe acknowledge, 14 rookies in this team, that could have been seen as a good thing, perhaps they haven't gelled and this team really seemed to be believing their own hype.

[15:15:00]

If you looked at some of the commercials they were involved in getting out to this tournament, they were all so confident, so supremely confident and once they arrived, that just kind of evaporated a bit, didn't they?

WHITFIELD: And be confident by association with, you know, many great things.

RIDDELL: History.

WHITFIELD: Yes, including Rapinoe, and now, with many like Rapinoe and other vets leaving. It is going to be a restart, and so a lot of these young players are going to have to raise their game, right?

RIDDELL: Yes. For sure.

WHITFIELD: That's all there is to it. All right, well, we still celebrate them. They still did an awesome

job.

Thank you so much, Don Riddell. Appreciate it.

All right, still to come. In Ukraine, multiple explosions hit critical road bridges linking Russian-occupied Kherson to Crimea, while heavy fighting continued on the eastern front. We'll have a live report from Ukraine, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:19:54]

WHITFIELD: A Russian backed official says long range weapons supplied by the UK were used in strikes that hit bridges between Crimea and Russian occupied parts of Ukraine.

[15:20:05]

Ukraine acknowledged the strikes earlier today, but did not say if they were British-supplied missiles or not. Russia says it intercepted nine of the 12 missiles fired. Meantime Ukrainian commanders say there are currently hundreds of engagements on its long eastern front, but there haven't been significant advances by the Russians as Ukraine's counteroffensive continues.

CNN's chief international security correspondent Nick Paton Walsh is in Ukraine.

Nick, what are we learning about today's strikes from both sides?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it is important to point out the significance of these two crossings from the Crimean Peninsula, remember that was annexed by Russia in 2014, formally part of Ukraine and up towards the Zaporizhzhia region recently occupied by Russia in this latest war.

The two areas hit purportedly say Russian officials by the storm shadow, UK supplied missiles, a bridge on the Arabat Spit, that's near Henichesk, and another bridge near Chonhar. Now, they're important because they potentially provide access for supplies to come from the military stronghold of Crimea, up to forces fighting in the western side of Zaporizhzhia, where the most intense prong of Ukraine counteroffensive currently is.

Now the Russian officials suggest that part of these will be functioning again quite soon, and they are still able to use another route up from Crimea off towards the west, but it is this pinpoint nature of Ukraine targeting that's a problem for Moscow. Often these strikes, too, presage an uptick in Ukrainian activity.

They want to destroy supply routes, just before they do something, to be sure that has the maximum chaotic impact upon the Russians, but another sign too of Ukraine's increased reach after days in which we've seen a supply of fuel oil tankers, amphibious assault ship, even a bridge from Crimea itself to the Russian mainland, all targeted in the last fortnight by Ukrainian drones.

WHITFIELD: And Nick, we now know the Ukrainian military is training battalions capable of dealing with the density of Russian minefields, in what way?

WALSH: Yes, and this has been one of the key issues for the Ukrainians since the start of this war. And really, the counteroffensive has been slowed significantly by the Russians having adequate time to lay down very dense minefields against vehicles, against people; often mines that are mined by other mines. So when the minesweepers come in and move the mine, another one detonates, detonating them both.

And we've spoken to de-mining squads, who sometimes say it takes them tens of meters every hour. They can at times, on their hands and knees, poking forwards with sticks to try and see if the ground in front of them is indeed clear.

That is a key reason why the first part of this counteroffensive has indeed been so comparatively slow, despite some of the optimistic assessments how fast it might initially go, and it is something Ukrainians have to work fast to try and get around. They don't have enough mine-clearing vehicles, certainly, and it is something that they're finding increasingly slow in terms of their progress.

WHITFIELD: Wow. Incredible task.

All right, Nick Paton Walsh in Ukraine, thank you.

All right, still to come, US Senator Mitch McConnell heckled in his home state of Kentucky. We'll discuss next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): Take place --

(PEOPLE chanting "You lost the Senate.")

(PEOPLE chanting "Retire, retire.")

(PEOPLE chanting "Ditch Mitch.")

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:28:07]

WHITFIELD: This morning, Donald Trump's attorney said his team will request a change of venue for the 2020 election obstruction case and suggested West Virginia as a possible location, but he refused to answer whether he thought Trump should refrain from attacking the DOJ.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Do you want your client to stop speaking publicly like this? Using terms like that. LAURO: This case was brought by -- this case was brought by the Biden

administration in the middle of a political campaign, and with the realization that people are out there campaigning for office.

I'm not involved in the campaign. I'm involved in representing Mr. Trump in a criminal proceeding, but --

BASH: Totally understands, you're not his campaign manager.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Joining me right now, CNN senior political analyst, David Gergen.

David, great to see you. You have advised four presidents over the course of your career. The campaign and the legal team for Trump would seemingly need a united message for Trump, what should it be?

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: The united message should be, listen, we're putting all our cards on the table, we think we've done nothing wrong. We think a lot of this has to do with the First Amendment, but he ought to do it in a very respectful way, which recognizes some of the merits of the alternative arguments, and also to accept some responsibility.

I think as long as he sort of just continues to be as combative and as mean-spirited as he is right now, I think you're going to have a hard time going beyond his base and build his political support for the general elections.

WHITFIELD: Former Vice President Mike Pence, he is campaigning in New Hampshire and he said, he had this to say, you know about defending certifying the 2020 election, and he had to do so with jeers and insults from a crowd of Trump supporters.

This morning, he dodged the question on whether he would support Trump if he were the GOP nominee. Take a listen.

[15:30:10]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: You can say right here that you will rule out voting for Donald Trump again for president.

PENCE: Dana, I will tell you, I don't think we'll have to make that decision.

BASH: What if you do?

PENCE: I am confident, I will be able to support the Republican nominee, especially if it's me. But I will tell you, I will tell you, I'm confident as they've done so many times before, Republican primary voters are going to choose new leadership for a new time in the life of our nation. We simply have got to move our country forward.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Why do you think Pence won't say flat out if he supports the president? The former president?

GERGEN: You talking to me?

WHITFIELD: Yes. Yes.

GERGEN: Yes, I am sorry.

WHITFIELD: You know, I mean, it seems like you know Pence dances around just answering the question directly. Would he support the former president?

GERGEN: I understand, he is in a very awkward, precarious position. You know, he does want to support the president, but more importantly, he has come to the decision he wants to support truth, and he wants to support the future of the Republican Party and that doesn't always coincide with what Donald Trump is saying or doing.

And, you know, I think given that, Mike Pence is showing some courage in carving out a separate lane for himself, and doing things that some other people in the party won't do.

Having said all of that, I don't think it has advanced him to the point that it is going to transform this race so that Mike Pence is suddenly right up on, you know, Donald Trump's tailpipe. I think it's much more likely that Pence will be seen as more of what he originally was represented to be long before he became vice president.

He was seen as a man of some integrity and honor, conservative to be sure, but a conservatism that I think, was respectful and listened to other sides. And, you know, I think he became more of a Trumpite while he was vice president.

It is very hard when you're vice president not to become -- to embrace the folly or the type -- the document of the doctrine of your president, but there is a lot to be , for keeping some distance, especially at this point.

I think that Mike Pence is actually serving the public well, by thinking about putting the public first, but it does require a little dancing, doesn't it?

WHITFIELD: Well, do you think it helps or hurts the field of GOP presidential hopefuls to address Trump's issues on the trail?

GERGEN: I think that, you know, for a certain number of them, yes, it will help a lot. I think Chris Christie has already shown that. He is -- and I don't think Chris Christie has any illusions that going after Trump will cost him votes in the base, and it will make it more difficult for him to get the nomination.

But I think he will emerge from this process as a more respected figure. As someone, again, who spoke to the truth as he knew it, and I do think that there is going to be some others in the weeks and months ahead, just inevitably, especially given the fact that we've got an historic moment, when the first sitting president has for his actions when he was a sitting president, a man is indicted repeatedly and probably will be again, we've never seen that before.

And some people should take it upon themselves, the leaders of this party, unless they want this party to self-destruct, they need to they need to start supporting alternative views of what's important for the country, and not just give us what the base is arguing for. I think that's where -- there is no leadership in sort of simply acquiescing what some people on the base believe, the conservative base.

Honor comes from standing up for your principle and sticking to it to having a true north, to having a real sense of who, what you believe, in what the principles are, and what is going to guide you and your politics.

And if you're only just dancing to the jig of you know, your president or your leader, you're not going to change your politics. You're not going to clean this up.

WHITFIELD: Yes. Hence the word "leader." You're underscoring that.

GERGEN: Yes, exactly.

WHITFIELD: So another notable moment on the trail this weekend. I mean, watch what happened when Senator Mitch McConnell spoke at one of Kentucky's classic political events.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCCONNELL: Take place --

(PEOPLE chanting "You lost the Senate.")

(PEOPLE chanting "Retire, retire.")

(PEOPLE chanting "Ditch Mitch.")

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[15:35:01]

WHITFIELD: I mean, that's extraordinary. I don't think we've seen that before or heard that before, and McConnell's political future you know has been in question since late last month when this happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCCONNELL: This week, there has been good bipartisan cooperation in a string of --

SEN. JOHN BARRASSO (R-WY): Are you okay, Mitch?

Anything else you want to say or should we just go back to your office? Do you want to say anything else to the press?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: So that was a hard moment to watch. It still is. But, you know, that moment of protest this weekend. I mean, is that in step with the age question that we've been hearing about even other members of Congress, or do you think that protest that we saw last night or yesterday is about something else and Mitch McConnell?

GERGEN: I think that they -- I think that the protest we saw last night, has a lot more to do not -- this particular protest does not go to the question of age as it does so much of Mitch McConnell being castigated by some people on the right for not being a conservative enough or not being activist enough and not taking charge of the banner of that.

You know, it's just hard sometimes to explain why people reach a conclusion they do, but you would think, given the fact that the conservative movement has been trying to get the courts changed, the direction of the courts changed, since Barry Goldwater's time, way back in the mid-60s, it's been a constant thing to change the court.

Who has done more to do that than anybody, who has done more who to accomplish that, and alive today, who can say that other than Mitch McConnell. Mitch McConnell delivered on the court. People on the left are horrified by what they see. It has contributed to the polarization, it has poisoned our politics.

But nonetheless, the court has spoken in a way that would never have spoken twenty, thirty years ago. This is a much, much more conservative court. Mitch McConnell is one of the chief authors of that change.

WHITFIELD: All right, David Gergen, always great to hear from you and talk to you. Thank you so much for being with us this Sunday.

GERGEN: Thank you, Fredricka. A delight to be here.

WHITFIELD: Thank you.

All right, coming up, nearly 100,000 asylum seekers have funneled through New York intake centers since a migrant surge began last spring. How is the city responding? We'll have details next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:42:00]

WHITFIELD: The number of asylum seekers funneling into New York City has reached almost 100,000 since the start of the migrant crisis last spring. That's according to statistics from the mayor's office, which says 2,300 migrants entered the system last week alone.

CNN's Polo Sandoval has the latest from New York -- Polo.

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, Fred, in the last year or so, we've seen New York City officials establish roughly 200 locations in and around the city that are being used to shelter some of these asylum seekers.

Remember, as you mentioned, they're close to 100,000 that have already at least turned to the city for any kind of resources, including housing or food, really just shelter, and those nearly 200 locations include the historic Roosevelt Hotel here in New York City that for the last several months has not only served as temporary shelter for some asylum seekers, but also that primary intake location where many of the newly arrived are able to get some of those resources.

In fact, it was just last week that we saw dozens and dozens of asylum seekers even have to sleep on the sidewalk just outside. Now we should mention that a few days later, New York City officials were able to find at least temporary housing for those, so we have not seen that play out again.

However, we also heard from New York City Mayor Eric Adams say in the last couple of days, that those scenes, they could potentially repeat themselves because of the influx of asylum seekers that we continue to receive.

It's also worth noting that this weekend marks one year since the first bus paid for by the Texas Governor Greg Abbott administration arrived here in New York City. But just some important context here, Fred, that accounts as of last -- as of about a week or so ago, are only about 10,600 asylum seekers. That is a fraction of the nearly 90,000 -- nearly 100,000 that arrived here.

And so this is why as we are well a year into this migrant crisis, the mayor says that all options are still on the table, Fred, including housing asylum seekers in soft-sided facilities in New York City's iconic Central Park.

We have not gotten to the point yet, according to New York City officials, but that is still very much an options that they're trying to keep on the table -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right, Polo Sandoval, thanks so much for that update from Manhattan.

All right, the 17-year-old suspect in the killing of O'Shea Sibley has been charged with murder as a hate crime and criminal possession of a weapon.

Sibley was a 28-year-old professional dancer who was stabbed to death at a Brooklyn gas station after dancing to a Beyonce song last weekend. Mourners took to the streets yesterday to protest the killing and chanted Sibley's name.

CNN's Amara Walker has more on this tragedy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMARA WALKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): A 17-year-old is facing a murder and hate crime charge for the stabbing death of professional dancer, O'Shea Sibley. Sibley was killed last weekend at a Brooklyn, New York gas station.

According to police, a group of men shouting anti-gay slurs approached Sibley who had been dancing to a Beyonce song before the stabbing.

[15:45:00]

SHNEAQUA COCO PURVIS, CEO, BOTH SIDES OF THE VIOLENCE, INC: Anyone, any human that enjoys something and they lose their life over it, we should put an emphasis on it. We should shine a light on it. We should make it huge because this is something that he actually died for.

WALKER (voice over): At a news conference Saturday, NYPD announced charges against a suspect.

ASSISTANT CHIEF JOSEPH KENNY, NYPD DETECTIVE BUREAU: He has been charged with Murder 2 and that has been charged as a hate crime and criminal possession of a weapon. He has been remanded.

WALKER (voice over): Joseph Kenny, Assistant Chief at the NYPD's Detective Bureau said the teenager is the only person who will be charged in relation to the incident at this point. Kenny said he surrendered on Friday.

A spokesperson with the New York City Police Department said he did not know whether the suspect would be charged as an adult. New York City Mayor Eric Adams also spoke at the news conference.

MAYOR ERIC ADAMS (D), NEW YORK CITY: This is a city where you are free to express yourself and that expression should never end with any form of violence.

(PEOPLE chanting "O'Shea.")

WALKER (voice over): Saturday night, hundreds of people chanted Sibley's his name as they marched in solidarity. The Alvin Ailey Dance family shared this recent video of Sibley dancing in a technique class. Mourning his loss, Ailey Dance leaders said Sibley was a cherished and devoted participant of their group.

In a statement, Alvin Ailey's artistic director, Robert Battle said: "We live in a world where the fact that someone wants to dance for joy can inspire hate. We dance for joy to inspire the humanity in each other."

WALKER (on camera): Sibley was killed while voguing to Beyonce's music. After hearing of his death, the singer paid tribute to him. Beyonce changed the front page of her official website to read "Rest in power, O'Shea Sibley."

Now before moving to New York, Sibley studied dance at the Philadelphia Dance Company. Sibley will be laid to rest in his home of Philadelphia on Tuesday.

Amara Walker, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE) WHITFIELD: And we'll be right back.

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WHITFIELD: The new CNN Original Series, "See it Loud: The History of Black Television" celebrates the creators who have elevated Black talent and stories on screens, and this week we explore the emerging opportunities for Black voices in science fiction, horror, and fantasy. Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're getting to a place through Black horror and science fiction to tell our stories.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You'll never have another Catwoman like that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My favorite science fiction show, it would be "Westworld."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Misha Green is a phenomenal storyteller. "Star Trek" was a landmark moment.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is very serious.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I see different representations. It is a beautiful thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Joining us right now Lisa Respers France. She's a senior writer for CNN Digital Entertainment. And Lisa, it is so good to see you.

So when we look back, I mean, this really takes us back. When you look at early days of sci-fi TV, 50s, 60s. There really were very few Black characters. Black people, you know, didn't necessarily have a place or we're not part of the production behind many of them until "Star Trek" launched with a multiracial cast, Nichelle Nichols playing Uhura, and let us not forget Eartha Kitt, okay, I mean, as Catwoman.

LISA RESPERS FRANCE, SENIOR WRITER FOR CNN DIGITAL ENTERTAINMENT: Yes.

WHITFIELD: It may not have been sci-fi but that was a kind of fantasy television.

FRANCE: Right.

WHITFIELD: So few and far between.

FRANCE: Yes.

WHITFIELD: Now, you know, thankfully, we see a lot more talent in the creators behind these kinds of genre of stuff on screen. What's happened along the way?

FRANCES: Well, we have to definitely give Eartha Kitt and Nichelle Nichols their roses. You know, Eartha doesn't get enough credit, I think because people loved her as Catwoman --

WHITFIELD: And in for among them.

FRANCES: Right.

WHITFIELD: And love Lieutenant Uhura. I mean, she not only helped change television, but she helped change the world because Nichelle Nichols, I will quote Whoopi Goldberg's often told story that when she was a little girl, she yelled, when she saw Nichelle Nichols on "Star Trek." She yelled to her family to come running and look, because there was a Black woman on TV that was not a maid.

So for us to see this woman in space and having a job that was very important.

WHITFIELD: And in a powerful position.

FRANCE: And a powerful position was incredible TV back in the 60s and Nichelle Nichols also helped to change NASA because she worked with them to help recruit more African-Americans and women at a time when they were saying, oh, we can't find enough talented Black people to work at NASA, and she was like, absolutely not. That's not the case.

WHITFIELD: Yes. She was a force on the screen and in NASA and in real life.

FRANCE: In all. Yes.

WHITFIELD: Science fiction, fantasy television, you know, or just that make believe, fantasy, fiction. How do the kinds of characters in the stories that we see in supernatural television kind of show impact in our understanding of the real world?

FRANCE: Yes, well, TV is a very powerful medium and it is interesting to me, because it's almost as if some of the TV shows from a couple of years ago have foreseen or that they did foresee that there were going to be a group of people that will try to erase our history.

So we had amazing shows like "Watchmen" with Regina King, which a lot of people learned about the Tulsa race massacre of 1921 through that TV show. Were it not for that, they would not have known. I mean, the Google searches for that went through the roof.

And then you also had something like "Lovecraft Country," which was referred to as cosmic horror, which also was very much about our history during the Civil Rights era and weaved in our culture and weaved in our history along with horror and it was so beloved. Both of those shows were just critically acclaimed and people were devastated when they were canceled.

[15:55:05]

WHITFIELD: Right, and then of course there were careers made or blossomed further as a result of productions like that.

FRANCE: Absolutely.

WHITFIELD: So, you know, which Black creators and talent are kind of breaking ground in the sci-fi arena today?

FRANCE: I love the fact that we are paying homage now to people like Octavia Butler, the writer who is considered by many to be the mother of Black science fiction, Hulu had Kindred which is based on her novel and people are now discovering her work because of TV.

Then you have something like, "They Cloned Tyrone" which is a Netflix film which got a lot of attention because it stars Jamie Foxx, but it was co-written and directed by Juel Taylor who is an African-American man and so, lots of people have been saying, you know, oh, like this type of genre is perfect for people of color because it enables us to be able to you know, viewed like the future in technology.

I mean, look at films. Like "Black Panther" made so much money, and that really was about setting a vision of African-Americans and technology and we saw that also with a recent Disney series -- and it is escaping my mind, I mean, there was an animated series that was great that also was about Afro futurism.

WHITFIELD: Right. I mean, there have been building blocks. I mean, and now, it is seemingly commonplace, right, if not, expected to see more productions in every genre involving Black talent and creators.

FRANCE: Absolutely.

WHITFIELD: Lisa Respers France, thank you so much. Great to see you.

FRANCE: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: And of course, be sure to tune in an all-new episode of the CNN Original Series, "See it Loud: The History of Black Television" airs tonight at 9:00 PM Eastern and Pacific right here on CNN.

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