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First On CNN: Former GA Lt. Governor Set To Testify In Fulton County Early Next Week; Special Counsel Named To Investigate Hunter Biden; Maui Resident, Daniel Sullivan, Describes Terrifying Night Surrounded By Three Raging Wildfires; Sources: Gun Safety Will Be Central To Biden Campaign; FEC Could Limit AI In Political Ads Ahead of 2024; Judge Revokes Bail For FTX Co-Founder Sam Bankman-Fried; Prices At The Pump Rise In Some Areas, Drop In Others. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired August 12, 2023 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:01]

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: Thanks so much for joining me today. I'm Fredericka Whitfield. The CNN NEWSROOM continues next with Jessica Dean.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You are in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jessica Dean in Washington. Jim Acosta has the day off. And we begin with developing news and the most significant indication yet that a fourth indictment against former President Donald Trump could be coming as soon as next week in Georgia. Former Georgia Lieutenant Governor and CNN Contributor Geoff Duncan revealing to CNN today, he will testify before grand jury in just a few days.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEOFF DUNCAN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I did just receive notification to appear on Tuesday morning at the Fulton County grand jury and I certainly will be there to do my part in recounting facts. I have no expectations as to the questions and I'll certainly answer whatever questions put in front of me and certainly don't want to go any deeper than that to, you know, jeopardize or compromise the investigation.

But look, for me this is a story that is important for Republicans to hear. Americans to hear. Let's hear the whole truth and nothing but the truth about Donald Trump's actions in the surrounding cast of characters around him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis is expected to seek multiple charges against Trump and his allies in the years long investigation into the efforts to overturn the 2020 election in Georgia. We have CNN reporter Marshall Cohen to break this all down and defense attorney and former federal prosecutor Shan Wu for some legal analysis. Great to have both of you.

Marshall, let's start first you set the scene for us. Walk us through the significance of what we've learned today. MARSHALL COHEN, CNN REPORTER: After all the talk, all the prep, all the witnesses all the litigation. It's finally happening. It's finally here. Based off the notifications that were sent today to those grand jury witnesses, it appears that the Monday-Tuesday Grand Jury down in Atlanta and Fulton County that meets regularly is going to get the Trump case. Those witnesses were told to come in Tuesday.

The grand jurors will be there Monday presumably for meeting with the prosecutors and Fani Willis and her team or they will spell out what they think is a strong case of election subversion by Donald Trump and many of his allies for what they did in 2020 down in Georgia.

DEAN: And we know as we just talked about that Geoff Duncan, the former lieutenant governor, CNN contributor is going to be talking to that grand jury. We also have learned there's a second person that's set to testify. What can you tell us about that?

COHEN: That's right. A second person who will go in on Tuesday, they announce it on their social media. His name is George Chidi. He's an independent journalist based in Atlanta. He's interesting because he actually witnessed the fake electors meeting in the state house. He sort of stumbled upon them midway through the plot back in December of 2020. Presumably he'll be testifying about that element of the multi- pronged attempt to interfere with the election.

DEAN: Fascinating. He just stumbled upon it being there. And then --

COHEN: He was doing his job. Journalist.

DEAN: Right. Just doing his job. Shan, let's talk about what this is going to look like for Chidi, for Duncan, what can -- what can they expect on Monday and Tuesday?

SHAN WU, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, first, it is still theoretically possible that they -- maybe they won't go in the grand jury. They've been subpoenaed. This is the regular grand jury, what I call the indicting grand jury. And they may have had access to all of the previous testimony in the form of written transcripts or listening to it. They could be read in, that's when -- the terms we use.

But the prosecutor may also be preparing for the fact that the grand jury may ask the -- live witnesses and they may want to have live witnesses to make a more powerful presentation. What they will inspect, cannot go in with counsel, your lawyer isn't

allowed in there. It's usually a group of people, there's no judge in there. And depending on the way it's set up, it could look a little bit like a classroom. Sometimes there's just a room with a table.

And you as the witness are sitting there. They'll let you take breaks to ask your lawyers questions and such. But essentially, the prosecutor is there, kind of like an emcee in that circumstance. Prosecutor will be asking questions and then also kind of field any questions that the grand jurors themselves may have. So there's actually an air of informality compared to being in a trial situation and testifying. But at the same time, it can be fairly tense because it is a formal court proceeding. DEAN: Yes. And so interesting to remember that these grand jurors are afforded the opportunity to ask their own questions in this situation. Sources are telling CNN that the district attorney is expected to seek more than a dozen indictments and has been eyeing these conspiracy and racketeering charges against Trump and some of his allies. How much of a challenge, Shan, do you think that is for the Trump team to defend against if that -- if that is indeed what happens?

[16:05:03]

And also, racketeering charges that's a tough -- that's tough to prosecute and it's probably tough to defend against.

WU: Yes. I think the challenge on both sides for that kind of charge is the conspiracy element of it. So really challenging for the prosecution, make sure that you can show there really is a conspiracy. People are communicating through taking overt actions. On the defense side, very challenging, because when you have other people that were involved with you talking about it, that makes it much hard for you to do the denial aspect of it.

If as expected, we're going see multiple indictments. I mean, this looks like the kind of case Jack Smith would have done if he didn't have a ticking clock shortening his charges.

DEAN: That is interesting. So that's -- that kind of leads us into a good question for Marshall, which is, we do have -- just to remind everyone, this would be the fourth indictment. The fourth case. If we could go to the most recent one this third case that is here in D.C. with Jack Smith on 2020 and overturning the election. How does this differ from that federal indictment that we've already seen?

COHEN: It's hard to keep track.

DEAN: It is.

COHEN: Former President Donald Trump was indicted several weeks ago, federally here in the District of Columbia by the Justice Department in connection with the national plot to subvert the election, in the words of the prosecutor to disenfranchise voters and change the electoral count illegally. That's federal. A lot of the Georgia activities were in that indictment. You can read that -- read it for yourself.

You can see what Donald Trump said to Brad Raffensperger, the Secretary of State trying to twist his arm to flip those votes. It's all in the federal indictment. Those are federal charges. This is a state investigation. Of course, the question on everyone's mind is, if Trump wins next year, he would be the chief executive of the United States and theoretically would have the power to shut down the federal probe, maybe even pardon himself. Can't do that in Georgia.

DEAN: So that's -- Shan, walk us through that because that is the big difference here that it is a state probe versus a federal probe. And if he is elected because let us remember, he is running to be President of the United States and is currently leading the GOP field by a very wide margin and a lot of polls. But the Georgia indictment and if there was -- that if they were able to prosecute this successfully, that would stick even if he was president.

WU: Yes. It's the dual sovereign concept. I mean, Georgia as a state is a different sovereign than the United States of America. And so that's why sometimes you might even hear people talking about that wasn't a double jeopardy if someone's tried once by state, once by the feds. It's not because there are different governments really that way. And while it's true that, you know, Trump could try this untested route of pardoning himself. You'd have no shot at all trying to do that with a state prosecution.

DEAN: And what do we know, Shan, about this judge in this federal case? Because we have seen this judge that's overseeing that case, issue of protective order that's barring Trump from publicly disclosing some of the sensitive information. And she's even gone as far as to say that if Trump makes any inflammatory statements that she could speed up the trial, which is what we know that Trump and his defense team does not want. What do you make of how she's approaching this?

WU: Well, Judge Chutkan, a very experienced trial attorney. I was a prosecutor when she was in the Public Defender Service. And that's really one of the most storied public defender services in the country. I was rejected when I applied just full disclosure. But she's very, very skilled. And she really knows her way around the courtroom as a prosecutor -- excuse me, as a defense counsel. And I think you see that in the way that she's dealing with this very complex high- profile case.

It's clear that she's not going to put up with delays which aren't justified. But as a former defense counsel, she's going to make sure she protects the Trump team's rights as well, which is why she narrowed down what the prosecution wanted more of a blanket protective order. And she said, no, show me what's really sensitive and those things won't be disclosed. Now, I do have a little bit of skepticism with her making that statement, if you're going to make inflammatory remarks, then we're going to speed up the trial.

She can certainly discipline him, sanction him, even put him in jail for those kinds of remarks. From an appellate standpoint, if you rushed the defense as kind of a punishment for making these bad remarks, it could create a problem if they get a conviction on appeal. So, I'm not sure if that one has much teeth.

DEAN: That's a very good point to make. And Marshall, I know you've also been keeping your eye on the president's son, Hunter Biden, and all of the legal cases surrounding him. We saw that special counsel appointed this week. What do you make of the Justice Department's decision?

COHEN: Let's just remember the crazy moment we're living in. There are three special counsels right now in the Justice Department investigating the president for possibly mishandling classified documents. The president's son for his tax problems and the former president, Donald Trump. [16:10:07]

The Hunter Biden situation, look, just three weeks ago, it appeared that this thing was basically done. A plea deal, a controversial plea deal, but a deal that was heading towards approval with the judge. It derailed in court three weeks ago. They tried to negotiate an agreement in the last few weeks. But we learned from court filings yesterday that those talks had collapsed. And what we learned from the Attorney General Merrick Garland was that it was now time to take that prosecutor and turn him to a special counsel, potentially, to take this case to trial.

And if he does, if they can't figure out a deal, then that will be very bad for the President and his son because we were talking about misdemeanors. And if this is going to trial, it is probably going to be felonies.

DEAN: And Shan, do you feel like the Attorney General Merrick Garland was really forced his hand here like he had -- he had to do this and what do you expect in the coming weeks and months in that particular case?

WU: I am puzzled as to why the Attorney General did this. Obviously, if he was asked by Weiss, I get the fact he would feel like he couldn't refuse, it would look bad. But to me, he -- Merrick Garland could have on day one appointed a special counsel and say, look, it's the president's son, I want to push it off arm's length. He didn't. He kept on the Trump prosecutor, which was very good. Let Weiss do his thing.

I'm not sure why it changes his mind now. Weiss could have tried the case outside the jurisdiction. In fact, he and Garland both said --

COHEN: Many times.

WU: Many times knows his authority for the asking. So, I'm not sure why that would make the deal unquestioned for Biden. It's not a good look for a son. It's not a good look because if the plea bargain breaks down, they're always going to charge you with more serious crimes before. So that definitely puts them in jeopardy. On the other hand, his defense counsel, if I was defense counsel, I wouldn't be running too scared because I'd say look, you've had five years to investigate this case.

This is the best you've come up with. So fine, you really want to try my client on tax charges when you already paid back the taxes, be my guess.

DEAN: Yes. There's so much to watch and track. Thanks to both of you, Shan Wu and Marshall Cohen. Great to have you both here with us. Thanks so much.

And while the grand jury is getting ready to meet in Georgia, Donald Trump is in Iowa with other Republican candidates. We're going to take you there live. That's next. Plus, the rising death toll from the Maui wildfires. We're going to talk live with a photographer on the island who's documenting that tragedy in real time. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:16:38]

DEAN: Former President Donald Trump drawing huge crowds of supporters at the Iowa State Fair. Of course, this coming after former Georgia Lieutenant Governor Geoff Duncan revealed to CNN today he's been called to testify before Fulton County grand jury about Trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election in that state.

Joining me now is CNN political director David Chalian who has been there at the Iowa State Fair taking it all in, seeing all of the candidates. And David, let's just start by zeroing in on this incredible split screen, which is the former president in Iowa campaigning for -- to be the nominee yet again, ahead of what could possibly be his fourth criminal indictment.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: It is quite the split screen, Jessica. There's no doubt about that. And it kind of captures the picture of the 2024 campaign that Donald Trump, the frontrunner both nationally and here in Iowa, the kickoff state to the process has all of these legal woes looming over his head and most pressingly now, this next potential fourth indictment in Georgia this week.

And yet here he is making his way through the fairgrounds getting a groundswell of support, huge crowds as the president -- the former president tends to get at events like this. And he is using the indictments as political fuel for his campaign. He is making his legal troubles, Jessica, a political cause. And it is helping his grassroots donations, and it is fortifying his base of support as he portrays it as sort of a political prosecution against him.

DEAN: Right. It's like a playbook now. Every time he gets indicted, we see him running that playbook. David, when I've been there in Iowa, I have not heard the voters particularly focused on indictment or this or that. When it comes to Trump's legal trouble, they talk about him. They talk about whether they have fatigue for -- around him or if they've -- maybe they're really still solidly in his camp.

What is your sense from voters as you're talking to them at the fair and now that we're just, you know, a few months out from the caucuses?

CHALIAN: Jessica, I'm so glad you raised that because I have not found a voter who brings up the indictments to me. He asked -- when we asked about it, they'll answer some questions about it. But I -- but I think it is worth noting. This is while it is dominating Trump's day to day life, obviously because he has a legal strategy to put in place and it is massive news and headlines. It's not what is top of mind for a lot of potential caucus goers here.

And that's also why I don't think we see a lot of his Republican competitors, all that eager to contrast with Trump on the issue of the indictments. They make the argument perhaps that they don't think he's going to be the best position to win for the party in 2024. Our colleague Kyung Lah asked some voters specifically about the indictment news. Give a listen to what they have to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Like I said, I know in my area, it's Trump country.

KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Are the indictments changing how you feel?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, because I do think a lot of that is for a fact.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A lot of those are trumped up. I don't find the charges against him being trumped up at all. That's my opinion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[16:20:01]

CHALIAN: So, you hear there in that voter's opinion, it doesn't sway her. She's clearly supportive of the former president. You hear some others say that, perhaps it could be a distraction. And it might be better to have a candidate that doesn't have to balance the campaign trail with going into the courtroom, Jessica. But by looks of the crowds today, by where he is in the polls right now, right now, at this race with five months ago, Donald Trump's the leading contender for the nomination and here in Iowa.

DEAN: Right. And it has been so consistent over the last several months leading up to now. It will be interesting to see if it stays that way. And in the months leading up to the actual caucuses. Before you go, David, I do want to ask you about his Republican rivals, because all of them are there. They're all trying to break through with voters in Iowa. What are any takeaways that you're seeing either from his chief rival Ron DeSantis or others as they really try to make a difference in their standing with voters there?

CHALIAN: Yes. And there was such a contrast on display today. Donald Trump was in and out of Iowa. I think maybe he was on the ground in Iowa for about two hours. He was here at the fair for less time than that. Ron DeSantis had been on the fairgrounds for more than four hours today. Shaking hands, he's with his kids and his wife. He's making a clear just by image, generational argument.

You saw him in the bumper cars that sort of was evoking the images of the young Obama family back in 2007 at times. And that is an argument DeSantis is clearly making that it is time for change. He also took Trump on pretty directly about not signing that RNC loyalty pledge to get on the debate stage. We don't know if Trump will be there. But DeSantis is making the argument. You know, you've got to think about the hole here of trying to defeat Joe Biden.

And not just yourself that there may be people you don't want to support on the debate stage. And he was needling Donald Trump for not signing that loyalty pledge saying he's putting himself ahead of the party and therefore the country. But you are seeing Nikki Haley, Vivek Ramaswamy, Mike Pence. The whole slew of candidates are out here. They're doing the glad handing and they are trying to sort of wage a traditional campaign and we know this campaign is anything but traditional.

DEAN: Yes. You hit the nail on the head there. That's exactly right. It's traditional campaigning in a very non-traditional moment. David Chalian for us at the Iowa State Fair this weekend. Thanks so much.

Well, the death toll in Maui now stands at 80 from the devastating wildfires there. An update there next. We're also going to speak with a man who's documenting the tragedy. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:26:45]

DEAN: Right now, utter devastation in Hawaii as it battles its deadliest natural disaster ever. As of this hour, the death toll from this week's wildfires has reached at least 80. And the economic toll on Maui County alone has eclipsed an estimated $5-1/2 billion. As teams searched the area of Lahaina now with the help of cadaver dogs, we're seeing more video of harrowing escapes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We got to walk somewhere over there by the beach.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to (BLEEP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh (BLEEP) M.G., wrong turn, wrong turn.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: M.G., M.G., M.G.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh (BLEEP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just keep going.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh (BLEEP) no, no, no, no, no, no, not like this. Not like this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Keep going.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not like this. No. Get out of the car.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (BLEEP) see?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: God (BLEEP)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: Just horrific. More than a dozen federal agencies including FEMA and the National Guard have now been mobilized to help with those recovery efforts. CNN Mike Valerio is on the ground in Maui.

MIKE VALERIO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jessica, this is the main roadway that leads into Lahaina. It's about a 20-minute drive that way but if we spin around, this is what people who work and live in Lahaina are having to deal with. A queue, a line to get in that spans right now about a mile and a half behind us. So, what you need to know is that people have been waiting to get in for more than 14 hours in some cases.

As we Zoom in, you can see a mix of utility workers, families, parents, college kids, people who are just waiting to see if their home survived the inferno. Tuesday night into early Wednesday morning. We spoke with two drivers before dawn. One of them ended up making it in the other did not because of a traffic jam after this roadway. The Honoapiilani highway was reopened just after dawn today. Listen to what both of those drivers told us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PATRICK THURSTON, MAUI RESIDENT: I got out here by 11:00, made it all the way to the other side. I was done by 3:00 picking up all the supplies I got. And then got to here and I've been here since 3:00 in the afternoon.

VALERIO: You've been here since 3:00.

THURSTON: Yes. We -- nobody -- none of us has moved. My coworker. She's up there two trucks. My other -- I got three other coworkers down there. They're back there. They've been here the whole time.

TODD DOMECK, MAUI RESIDENT: It's either laughter or tears, you know. So when I talk to all the people in our business that have been affected, about 14 people that have lost their houses. And so, we're just trying to do the most good we can, but it's really frustrating when you can't.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VALERIO: So in terms of the wider picture, there are new figures that are out from FEMA estimating that it's going to cost $5.52 billion to rebuild Lahaina. 227 structures either damaged or destroyed. 4500 people. That is the estimate for the number of people who need to be sheltered in both the near and the long term. But this, what we are seeing here is the first chapter to both rebuilding, seeing what survived and seeing what is left of a place that was so integral to the heart and soul of Maui. Jessica?

[16:30:01]

DEAN: Mike Valerio for us. Just so much need there.

Thank you so much.

My next guest is a resident of Maui, Daniel Sullivan.

Daniel, thanks so much for making time for us this afternoon. You posted on your Instagram that it was one of the most terrifying

nights of your life. You were surrounded by three raging fires at once. Will you just tell us about that moment?

DANIEL SULLIVAN, MAUI RESIDENT: Yes, we were really -- it was a difficult spot. We had -- the winds that started in the afternoon had knocked down many trees, so many of the roads were blocked.

And then the fires were - well, we had a big fire below the House. We had one coming from one direction, and then we had a big forest fire above us.

And no one was sure, you know, how fast that was traveling. They said, you know, if it's two miles away, you've got to evacuate. And we could see flames.

And I just sat up on my roof that night and end up photographing -- I'm a professional photographer here. And just with my family down below, we had the van packed.

The problem is we couldn't get out. The roads were blocked. There was really nowhere to because we were completely surrounded by fires.

DEAN: Just the videos and photos are absolutely overwhelming. I understand your home is OK, which is great news. And I'm so happy for you and your family.

But I think what you're talking about is like having your car packed and knowing you may have to go, but you couldn't. There's no roads. The fires are just enclosing all around. That must have been really, really scary.

SULLIVAN: Yes, it was terrifying. The whole island was in that situation, you know? People had even gotten away to evacuate at the shelters were then being evacuated because the shelters were burning.

It was just -- nobody had seen anything like it. The winds were just so strong and that fire was just whipping around the island.

And we were just all affected by it. This whole island's been affected, you know, so terribly by this fire.

DEAN: There's no question about it.

And you mentioned you're a professional photographer. We know that you've been documenting this to the extent that you can. Walk us through what you've be able to see as you've been documenting this.

SULLIVAN: So yesterday I was up with the firefighters. There's still fires up there. These guys have been working around the clock since Tuesday, you know, fighting these fires. A lot of them haven't slept.

I went out with the firefighters. We were hiking around some of the hot -- helicopters dropping, you know, hundreds of gallons of water, just trying to stay on top of it. You know, the winds are the real enemy up there. And luckily, we had a

couple of calm days, which was good. That kind of helped them to get on top of the fires.

These are big forest fires. This isn't something we are used to.

When these trees are so hot, is what happens is the roots burn underneath. So under the ground those roots are burning and it can jump up anywhere and you have these fires that would start.

And you would think there's no fire there, but when you take the temperature of the soil, it's 180, 200 degrees, the soil, because those roots are burning.

DEAN: That's incredible.

And just quickly, before we let you go, there are so many people that are watching you right now and have been watching this over the last couple of days, and they feel kind of helpless. This feels so awful because you're so far away in Maui.

How can they help you? What do you all need right now from people?

SULLIVAN: I mean, it's such a hard question because we feel the same way. You know, we were so lucky not to lose our home. You know, my wife's been volunteering down at the shelter.

It's just -- it's so hard because you know, there's a lot of donations and this island really has so much love, you know, everybody's coming together to support.

But, you know, you're talking about thousands of people. And this island, we're only, you know, 160,000 people. We're really small. So it's a tough question.

You know, there's going to need to be shelter. There's going to be -- all these things. The entire town was wiped out. There's nothing over there.

If you look at, like, the supply list, people are asking for barbecues, you know, just to cook food because they have no electricity, no running water.

I grew up in New Orleans, so I was there after Katrina, and I've seen, you know, what it looks like. And it's like Katrina. You know, it's wiped out. There's nothing left.

I think there's so much that's needed and we're just beginning to learn about, you know, the losses we've had here. It's a really hard situation.

DEAN: It is. It is devastating. And it sounds like just basic needs at this point. It's a struggle to meet those.

Daniel, thank you so much for talking with us. Our best to you and your family and to all of your neighbors there in Maui. Thanks again. [16:35:04]

SULLIVAN: Thank you.

DEAN: And for more information about how you can help the wildfire victims in Hawaii, you can go to CNN.com/impact. You can also text the word "Hawaii" to 707070 to donate.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DEAN: There are major new developments in what could soon be Donald Trump's fourth indictment.

Just a short time ago, CNN spoke with former Georgia lieutenant governor and CNN contributor, Geoff Duncan. He said he will testify in the next 48 hours before a grand jury in Atlanta.

Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis has subpoenaed Duncan to testify about efforts by former President Trump and his allies to overturn the 2020 presidential election in Georgia.

Duncan, as I mentioned, is now a CNN political commentator.

[16:40:00]

We also know an independent journalist tweeted today he was also called by the Fulton County district attorney and also asked to testify before that Same grand jury on Tuesday.

Meantime, multiple White House aides are telling CNN the Biden administration is preparing to roll out a massive expansion of background checks for gun purchases.

According to those sources, the Biden campaign is working toward making gun safety a central issue in his re-election campaign.

And several people advising the campaign telling CNN that gun safety along with abortion are Biden's opportunity to characterize Republicans as extreme.

CNN's senior reporter, Edward-Isaac Dovere, broke this story.

Isaac, great to see you.

EDWARD-ISAAC DOVERE, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Yes.

DEAN: Tell us what your sources are saying about this. This is interesting.

DOVERE: This is an executive action that Biden started the process on in March but looks like it's about to be approved through the internal process. The administration is going to be talking more about it. The president's going to be talking more about it. It's going to happen at the same time the Biden campaign and the

political arena will be talking about gun control much more and gun safety much more.

To them, this as you say, is an opportunity to say that Republicans are out of whack with the mainstream.

When you look at the mass shootings, the homicides, all these things that have really changed this issue and that Biden really wants to try to tap into and say that the Republicans need to catch up to where people overall have come to on this issue.

DEAN: And what are you hearing from Democratic leadership outside of the White House?

DOVERE: There's a feeling of exhaustion from a lot of Americans and certainly political leaders about this.

I spoke with the mayor of Baltimore who said to me that he is so tired of gun violence on the streets of Baltimore and other cities that he feels like mayors need to stand up and say there's blood on the hands literally of the people who are stopping more legislation on gun control.

Senator Chris Murphy, who's very associated with a senator from Connecticut, say that they feel like this is a way for Democrats politically not just to about the importance of winning the presidency.

But to make a play for House races around the country and Senate races and make this really into a litmus test issue for a lot of voters.

DEAN: It is interesting they are choosing those two issues.

Because when you look at the data, Republicans in their positioning is out of step with where the majority of Americans are, not all Americans, but the majority of Americans.

And we saw that play out in the midterms with abortion.

DOVERE: Yes.

DEAN: So now to kind of couple that issue, which our CNN data shows is still as potent with voters, with this gun control issue, it is an interesting -- it is an interesting choice.

DOVERE: Remember, in 2020, Biden talked about the battle for the soul of America. I wrote a book about it called "Battle for the Soul."

DEAN: I remember that. Yes.

(LAUGHTER)

DOVERE: They are going to be talking about it a lot more in sort of a renewed way. And the president, you'll hear him talk about it. And think about the contrast -- and some of the Biden advisers that

I've talked to have talked about this contrast between talking about the battle for the soul of America, talking guns as part of that.

And on the opposite side of it, you have the leading Republican candidate, former President Trump, who will, it seems like be on trial for his role in what was a violent insurrection at the capitol.

DEAN: It is shaping up to be just absolutely an unprecedented election cycle.

Isaac, thanks so much.

DOVERE: Thanks.

DEAN: We appreciate it. Good to see you.

And for the first time, there may be a complicating factor in upcoming elections. Artificial intelligence, it could play a major role in the 2024 election. That prospect has caught the eye of federal regulators who, this week, took the first steps toward regulating the use of A.I. in political ads.

CNN's Jon Sarlin is joining us with details on this.

Jon, walk us through what's happening here. Because we've seen some of this A.I. in ads so far. It is so eerily realistic looking. What's happening with this?

JON SARLIN, CNN BUSINESS PRODUCER: Right, that is the key. The technology now allows you to create misrepresentations with video, with audio that seemed to be from one person but is artificially generated.

Is that allowed in a campaign? That is the key question. Well, the FEC now is taking a potential small step to regulating that.

The bipartisan commission has opened a 60-day public comment on whether existing federal regulations apply to A.I. in elections.

As you mentioned, we've seen, as this technology has rapidly improved, it starts to work its way into campaigns.

The Ron DeSantis campaign tweeted out a video that had A.I. images of Donald Trump hugging Anthony Fauci. Those were fake.

Previously, we've seen the RNC create an A.I.-generated ad about Joe Biden.

The question, though, is that legal? I've talked to election experts on this, and they say, look, lying in election ads is legal. That is the issue. What is not allowed is fraud, fraudulent misrepresentation.

[16:44:59]

And a nonpartisan group, Public Citizen, and a group of Democratic lawmakers led by Adam Schiff are arguing that A.I.-generated ads are fraudulent misrepresentations.

Now, the FEC is a bipartisan commission. It's split half between Democrats and Republicans. And it seems like there are disagreements on whether fraud applies to A.I. in ads.

DEAN: We're seeing it more and more where the technology gets ahead of where the regulation is, where the laws are.

Before you go, I do want to ask you about this. Cryptocurrency executive Sam Bankman-Fried's bail was revoked this week. He was sent back to jail, being accused of witness tampering. What can you tell us about that?

SARLIN: That's right. Sam Bankman-Fried, the founder of FTX, now disgraced, he was facing his trial in October, is now in federal custody in Brooklyn.

That's after prosecutors and then a judge said that Sam Bankman- Fried's repeated reach out to journalists crossed the line into witness tampering.

Now, Sam Bankman-Fried had made over a thousand calls to journalists in recent months according to prosecutors.

And at the heart of that was Caroline Ellison, his former lover and the former co-CEO of Alameda Research, the hedge fund that he, Sam Bankman-Fried, founded and funded and was key to the prosecutor's indictment of him.

Now Caroline Ellison, in December, pleaded guilty to charges against her with the understanding that she would cooperate with the government's case against Sam Bankman-Fried.

Well, Sam Bankman-Fried was telling journalists about Caroline Ellison, including giving personal documents of hers.

A profile in "The New York Times" came out about Caroline Ellison. The government said this is not protected speech, which is what Sam Bankman-Fried's lawyers argued, First Amendment rights to protect his reputation.

Prosecutors said that was witness tampering, and had sent messages to other witnesses who were reticent to testify against Sam Bankman-Fried in October.

DEAN: So many layers there.

All right, Jon Sarlin, for us. Thanks so much for that reporting. We appreciate it.

Well, gas prices are rising in some parts of the country but falling in others. We'll break that all down for you, next.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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DEAN: If you plan on doing any driving this summer, be aware gas prices are up in a lot of areas.

Take a look at this map from AAA. You'll see the dark red. It indicates states where the gas prices are the highest. The dark blue, that's where they're the lowest for regular unleaded.

The cheapest gas has been found in the south, with Mississippi clocking in at $3.32. AAA finding the highest prices in the western states. In California, $5.13. And you'll pay a full $1.81 more than you would in Mississippi.

We'll talk now with Patrick De Haan. He's the head of petroleum analysis at GasBuddy.

Great to see you, Patrick. Thanks so much for joining us this afternoon.

I want to bring that map back up for a second. We know that GasBuddy is reporting a rise in prices in some states this month compared to August of last year. But then we've got this drop in other states.

What do you make of that? Is there a reason for this?

PATRICK DE HAAN, HEAD OF PETROLEUM ANALYSIS, GASBUDDY: Well, as you look at it, some of these states are now starting to get back beyond where they were a year ago.

And unfortunately, with gas prices likely to see more upward pressure as the price of oil continues to push things up, we're going to see more states get into that territory.

Ironically, out west, as you just mentioned, California some of the nation's highest prices.

California is not one of the states that's above a year ago. And a lot of it has to do with refinery issues that may have happened last year that are absent this year or quite the opposite.

This year, there are some refinery issues in areas of the south because of the tremendous temperatures that we've seen that has slowed down and curtailed refinery's ability to produce gasoline.

And some of those areas are now seeing prices high they are year due to some of those snags compared to where they were last year.

But unfortunately, I do think that for all the inflation data that we're seeing, unfortunately, we're going to likely start closing the gap. The national average today now only $0.13 below where it was a year ago.

DEAN: Got you.

It is interesting, though, because we're looking at California, for example, I was actually there last weekend and the gas prices caught my eye, and saying, oh my gosh, it's so high.

But you're saying it's still actually lower than it was this time last year there?

DE HAAN: Yes, that's right. California's about $0.30 a gallon lower. But if you look at it compared to what we were, say, a week ago, there's about 25 states that are seeing higher prices this week compared to last year, and about 25 below that.

The only good news really is that only about nine states so far have seen their average gas prices go up beyond what they were a year ago.

Again, a lot of this happening baud because of Saudi-led production cuts that they just extended into September.

So motorists may not see much of a break here at a time of the year that we usually see gas prices easing going into the closing end of driving season and you have hurricane season as well.

DEAN: Right. And that's certainly something to keep in mind.

OK, so look at your crystal ball for us, and if you look out at the next several weeks or a month even, what should people expect then?

DE HAAN: I think, for the next few weeks, it's going to be a bit volatile. Because we've seen the price of oil move higher for six straight weeks. So bottom line, don't expect any price relief just yet.

But I do think once we get into mid and late September, we should see some price relief. And that has to do with demand for gasoline that is going to start declining as schools reopen.

In addition, the key mark is when we switch back to cheaper winter gasoline. That happens September 16th.

So between now and then, hold your breath. Hopefully, we'll not see any major hurricanes. More relief should arrive in the fall.

[16:55:03]

DEAN: All right. Patrick De Haan, thank you for breaking that all down for us. We appreciate it.

DE HAAN: Thanks for having me.

DEAN: And new developments today in what could become Donald Trump's fourth indictment as the Republican frontrunner arrived in Iowa along with other presidential candidates. We have an update next, on CNN NEWSROOM.

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DEAN: You are in the CNN NEWSROOM. Hi, everyone. I'm Jessica Dean in Washington. Jim Acosta has the day off.

[16:59:55]

And we are following a major development in what could become the fourth indictment of former President Donald Trump. The strongest indication yet coming from former lieutenant governor of Georgia and CNN contributor, Geoff Duncan.