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Fulton County D.A. To Present Trump Case To Grand Jury Early Next Week; Special Counsel Named To Investigate Hunter Biden; Maui Wildfires Leave Trial Of Death And Destruction; Russia: Missiles Shot Down Near Black Sea Bridge; Ukraine Considers Mandatory Evacuation of More Children; White House Asks For An Additional $24 Billion In Assistance For Ukraine; Damar Hamlin Returns To The NFL Playing Field. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired August 12, 2023 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:59:50]

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: You are in the CNN NEWSROOM. Hi everyone. I'm Jessica Dean in Washington. Jim Acosta has the day off.

And we are following a major development in what could become the fourth indictment of former president Donald Trump. The strongest indication yet coming from former lieutenant governor of Georgia and CNN contributor Geoff Duncan.

He revealed to CNN today a new subpoena from the Fulton County district attorney asking him to testify about efforts by Trump and his allies to overturn the 2020 presidential election in Georgia.

Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEOFF DUNCAN (R), FORMER LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR, GEORGIA: I did just receive notification to appear on Tuesday morning at the Fulton County grand jury, and I certainly will be there to do my part in recounting the facts.

I have no expectation as to the questions, and I'll certainly answer whatever questions put in front of me and certainly don't want to go any deeper than that to, you know, jeopardize or compromise the investigation.

But look, for me this is a story that is important for Republicans to hear, Americans to hear. Let's hear the whole truth and nothing but the truth about Donald Trump's actions and the surrounding cast of characters around him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: CNN's Marshall Cohen is joining me now in the studio with more details on this. And Marshall, we've all had our eye. I know you've definitely had your eye very trained on Georgia, Fulton County, what's going on down there. Does this mean things are about to start happening?

MARSHALL COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Finally. After three years of investigations, 70 witnesses to the grand jury, a grand jury report, lawsuits, security getting beefed up, so much speculation.

It's happening. According to, as you just played, lieutenant governor -- former lieutenant governor Geoff Duncan. Really making clear that this is sort of the opening shot of the very final stage of this investigation. These witnesses are being told that it's time to come in and get ready to testify.

So as we've previously reported, the prosecutors down there led by district attorney Fani Willis, an elected Democrat, they are expected to give a probably two-day presentation. This grand jury meets Mondays and Tuesdays.

So if witnesses are coming in Tuesday, that means the activity really could begin as soon as Monday.

DEAN: As Monday. It just feels so close that it could be tomorrow. But on Monday.

And we also know that in addition to Geoff Duncan that a second person has also been asked to testify. Tell us about that.

COHEN: That's right. This is George Chidi, he is an independent journalist based in Atlanta. He had subpoenaed to the special -- he had testified to the special grand jury last year.

We had previously reported that he got a subpoena for this charging grand jury that has charging powers. And he also confirmed that he was asked to come in on Wednesday.

So again, two-day presentation -- Monday, Tuesday. Pardon me, I did just say Wednesday, but I meant Tuesday. And the prosecutors are looking at possibly more than a dozen indictments. Trump allies across the state of Georgia and beyond, people like Rudy Giuliani received a target letter in this investigation, thinking about things like conspiracy, racketeering, RICO.

This is stuff that Fani Willis has a lot of experience with and she has signaled -- she has signaled that she is ready to go.

DEAN: Wow. So much more to come on this -- the big development on this Saturday.

Marshall Cohen thanks so much for breaking it all down for us. We appreciate it.

And for legal analysis, Palm Beach Florida state attorney Dave Aronberg is joining us now. Dave, lovely to see you. Thanks for making time.

Just first, what do you make of this announcement from Geoff Duncan?

DAVE ARONBERG, STATE ATTORNEY, PALM BEACH COUNTY, FLORIDA: It's a big deal, Jessica, because Geoff Duncan would be the cleanup hitter for Fani Willis. He's the former Republican lieutenant governor and senate president who has long been a critic of Trump's attempts to overturn the election.

He's long been a critic of Rudy Giuliani's lies to legislative committees. And so he is going to be a truth teller before that grand jury and perhaps the final witness before an indictment, and not just any indictment. And not just any indictment. It looks like an indictment for racketeering which carries with it a five-year mandatory minimum sentence in Georgia.

DEAN: Wow. And so walk us through -- Marshall was just laying out this grand jury meets on Mondays and Tuesdays. Walk us through what's next in this process. We know these witnesses will go in, that they will talk to the grand jury. Walk us through how that will play out.

ARONBERG: Well, it's often said, Jessica, that you can indict a ham sandwich before a grand jury. And that's because in a grand jury it's just the prosecution and the witnesses. There is no defense counsel there and the prosecution presents the case, and the grand jurors are asked to vote. And all you need is majority of the grand jurors to vote based on probable cause that a crime occurred and then you've got an indictment. So it's a relatively low standard to reach.

Now, getting a conviction is much tougher. You've got to prove cases beyond a reasonable doubt. This has been going on, though, since January. Remember, Fani Willis said that indictments would be imminent back then. But now here we are in August. And I think the reason for the delay is that a lot of the witnesses have flipped.

People who would have otherwise been charged in the fake elector scheme have flipped and are assisting Fani Willis's investigation.

[17:04:59]

ARONBERG: You can see why the former president is really nervous right now.

DEAN: And we know that the Fulton County D.A., Fani Willis, who you just mentioned is considering as many as 12 indictments. She's reportedly considering conspiracy and racketeering charges. That would allow her to bring a case against multiple defendants.

Do you think using so-called RICO charges is the right strategy in this case?

ARONBERG: RICO is not just for the Mafia anymore. It's been used broadly for many years now. In fact, Fani Willis' is experienced in bringing RICO cases. Just last week she brought one against a street gang in Georgia. She's previously brought one against teachers for a cheating scandal.

So you can bring a RICO case. You have to show that it's a criminal enterprise, engaged in a pattern of racketeering activity. What is a pattern? You need two or more qualified offenses. Not every offense qualifies under RICO. But if you try to influence witnesses, that's a qualifying offense. If

you have computer trespass, which apparently happened here with Sidney Powell, that's a qualifying offense.

Now, the key is to tie that to Donald Trump. You have to show that Donald Trump personally was involved in this scheme, and if they can show that, it's game on.

DEAN: Ok, so to that point, I want to play a clip because a lot of this case centers on a phone call that Trump made to Georgia election officials. So let's listen to that, and then we'll come back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So look, all I want to do is this. I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have because we won the state.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: Ok. And we know at a campaign event earlier this week, he called that a perfect phone call. But Dave, you've just laid out what they're trying to do in proving this, and it seems like that is some pretty solid evidence with that phone call.

ARONBERG: It is, Jessica. You know, you're not going to see Donald Trump take the stand in this case, if and when he is indicted. I do not think he will go under oath and take the stand in what could be a perjury trap.

So the next best thing for jurors is to hear Donald Trump's own voice on a recording, and that's what separates this case from all the others. And that's why I think this is the second strongest case against Donald Trump of the four criminal cases. I think the strongest is the documents case at Mar-a-Lago. They got him dead rights on that one.

But here you've got Donald Trump on tape and that's the difference, and that's why I think they've got a really strong case, not just for RICO but other potential charges like trying to improperly influence an election official.

So there's going to be a number of charges not just against the former president but against his cohorts as well.

DEAN: That will also be different here, right? That there could be the other allies that could be kind of sucked into this as well?

ARONBERG: I think the ally that has the most to worry about here is Rudy Giuliani. Rudy Giuliani lied to legislative committees. Now when Rudy Giuliani went before the public, he can say whatever he wants. He has a First Amendment right to do so, but when you lie before a legislative body in Georgia, it a crime. So I expect that he will be indicted as well.

And then there's the others like Sidney Powell who were part of this scheme. Because if you're going to charge RICO, it's an enterprise. A one-man RICO really doesn't exist. You need others. And that's why you can expect others will be charged alongside Donald Trump. Those who have not yet flipped already.

DEAN: Ok. So we know that this grand jury will meet Monday and Tuesday and then how -- is it possible to know then what -- kind of what a time line looks like after that? Or is it really up to the D.A.

ARONBERG: I expect that an announcement will come as early as Tuesday because Geoff Duncan is testifying Tuesday. If those are the only days the grand jury will be meeting next week, then all signs point to an indictment.

Tuesday evening it will be announced. What will happen is they'll come out and then it will be unsealed and Trump and his team and others will be notified and the public will know.

Probably by Donald Trump himself. He has a habit of letting people know when these things happen to him so you can expect that it's going to get really interesting next week, that's going to be the fourth of four cases against Donald Trump. And as I said, I think the second most powerful one against him.

DEAN: It really is an unprecedented time seeing as he is the front runner for the GOP nomination as it stands, just a few months before Americans start voting in that primary race. It is quite a moment in American history.

Dave Aronberg, thank you so much for your analysis, for helping us understand that better. We appreciate it.

ARONBERG: Thank you.

[17:09:52]

DEAN: Still to come, much more analysis on the ramp up to a possibly fourth indictment of Donald Trump, this one in Georgia. Former adviser to four presidents David Gergen will be here to talk about it with us.

Plus, we're going to take you live to Hawaii as officials continue to search for those missing as firefighters still continue to battle the wildfires.

And later, the incredible comeback of Damar Hamlin continues, as he plays in the Buffalo Bills' first preseason game just seven months after suffering a cardiac arrest on the field.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DEAN: Unprecedented and historic, it seems like we say those words a lot when it comes to these investigations and indictments of former president Donald Trump.

But think about this, Trump is facing what could be his fourth indictment. In just a few days, the Fulton County district attorney is expected to present to the grand jury her case that Trump tried to overturn the presidential election results in the state of Georgia. And a trial schedule appears very likely to collide with the 2024 election calendar.

[17:15:00]

DEAN: And we really are in uncharted territory here. The former president remaining defiant and continuing to claim he's a victim of a weaponized justice system.

Joining me now is former adviser to Presidents Nixon, Ford, Reagan, and Clinton -- David Gergen, It's great to see you.

And I'm so happy we have you on because I want to get your perspective on the big picture impact of this moment. And I know we can get lost in the day-to-day churn of all of this, but what do you take away if you kind of zoom out and look at this moment?

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: We're in one of the strangest moments in American political history. We haven't seen anything like this in at least 100 years.

There is some precedent, Jessica. There was a fellow named Curly (ph) in Boston and he was -- his first time out, people loved him. He was the mayor of the poor. And he went to jail, and the election was held while Curley was in jail, and guess what, Curly won by 20 points.

So it's not impossible, and we may see it more than once. Eugene Debs (ph) was another person that was a candidate, and he was an activist in the 1920s. He went to jail (INAUDIBLE) but he was still very, very popular.

So we have to say there are occasionally moments, but this one is, I think, particularly charged because it is so dangerous. It's so dangerous to our democracy, and so dangerous to our place in the world.

If we're seen as slipping as we are, all the nations are going to try to take advantage of us in all sorts of ways we can't even imagine at this point.

So there's a lot more on the line than we've seen in most scandals in the past. We've also, you know, we're coming into a period, Jessica where one headline said today Hunter has become the hunted. And that is going to be Hunter Biden is now in the thick of all of this and inevitably television cameras are going to swerve that way as well as towards the courtrooms for Donald Trump.

DEAN: No question about it. It's just kind of this swirl, this storm that we're all kind of heading into at this moment. And if we go back to the former president, for a second, I was just talking with our political director, David Chalian who you know as well who's in Iowa at the state fair.

GERGEN: He's the best.

(CROSSTALK)

DEAN: He's the best, and he was talking about the big crowds that Trump is getting today as he's there at the Iowa state fair. We know that he remains far and away the front runner for the Republican nomination, meaning that this 2024 election could feature a twice- impeached former president who's facing four criminal indictments, and also a current president who himself, let us not forget, is under a special counsel investigation over his handling of classified documents.

And then you mentioned his son, Hunter Biden. It is truly remarkable how all of this is spinning around.

But when we go to Trump and we talk about -- we talk to voters in Iowa, they don't mention any of this. They'll talk about how they feel about him. Do you think this is getting through to voters? How are they metabolizing all of this?

GERGEN: Well, I think it's very, very unlikely that the landscape we're in today is going to be the landscape in October, November of the election year.

Something's going to happen. Somebody's going to get hurt in some fashion, somebody, you know, know, Trump might go to jail for a lot of charges and a lot of years. There are all sorts of things that could change things some. So it makes it very, very unpredictable.

But at the moment, I do believe -- continue to believe that we're more threatened by us than we are by our enemies right now. We're all more threatened by the way we're allowing our democracy to erode and people aren't standing up enough. There's a lot of cowardice in politics right now.

DEAN: And really just such a pushback from the American people. They're just losing their faith in institutions it seems like in a lot of ways --

GERGEN: Yes. Yes.

DEAN: -- which so foundational, right, to democracy. I do want to ask you, if you were advising any one of the Republican candidates running against Trump at this point, how would you approach this issue?

Because I've been following them. They really are trying to kind of delicately go around it. Mike Pence has been very direct about that third indictment. But otherwise, you know, they're not really going right at Donald Trump.

GERGEN: Yes, that's very, very true. They're not going after Donald Trump at this point because they're scared. That's what I mean by the cowardice because they're scared.

[17:19:47] GERGEN: The polls, you know, CNN posted a really interesting piece asking and comparing DeSantis on the on the right to Tim Scott of South Carolina, and they're running against each other in the Republican primary.

And the question CNN was phrasing was what do Republican voters -- MAGA voters want? Do they want a brawler, someone who's going to get in a fight and go for the knockout or do they want a unifier?

Scott is clearly the unifier, Trump is the brawler. So far despite the polls that say people want a unifier more than they've gotten, so far though, the brawler is just carrying forth.

Just this last week, you know, where Scott was calling for compassion in various issues, on the same issues DeSantis was saying about the immigration of illegal immigrants that if they try to do it when he gets into the presidency, they will be stone cold dead. He said they're going to be stone cold dead and he has vowed to take people out by violence.

You know, I know some of that's just rhetorical play, but if you say that often enough, what you do is you encourage a lot of crazies that pick up their guns and look for another victim.

DEAN: And before I let you go, I do want to ask you your thoughts if you were advising president Biden and his campaign. They do have their own set of issues that they're going to have to face including what's going on with the special counsel and Hunter Biden. And then of course his -- the president's classified documents case. What would you tell them?

GERGEN: I think at the moment, he's handled it very, very well, but the time is going to come when he has to be a lot more forthcoming.

You know, he's trying to protect his son. He's standing up for his son. I think those are admirable efforts on his part.

You know, but he can't simply walk away from this. He's got to face up to it. He's got to tell the truth about it, ask that's going to be very hard for him to do.

I think it's one of the wild cards in this race that if something happened to Hunter or if he's jailed in any fashion, you know, there's the outside possibility that Joe Biden is not going to be able to handle it, his surviving son, a very important relationship as we know.

DEAN: Yes. They are very, very close, and yes understandably sensitive around that and very interesting to hear you say that could be the real wild card there.

All right. David Gergen thanks so much for joining us. It's always great to see you.

GERGEN: Thanks so much, Jessica. Take care. DEAN: Still ahead tonight, death and destruction in Hawaii with

firefighters still battling the wildfires there, and so many people still missing.

We're going to take you to Maui. That's next.

[17:22:31]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DEAN: Let's go now to Hawaii where the massive wildfires there have become the deadliest natural disaster in the state's history. At least 80 people have died, thousands are displaced, many others still missing. More than a dozen federal agencies have been mobilized to assist with the recovery efforts including FEMA and the National Guard.

The cost to rebuild is expected to top $5.5 billion, and we're beginning to hear from residents on what's next for them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was everything I could do to just gather my kids and gather whatever I could in two minutes to get out of the house. And I mean, we ran out of the house with no shoes, finally saw the pictures of what used to be our house and our town and just trying to figure out what to do from here because there's nothing to go back to.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: CNN's Mike Valerio is on the ground in Maui.

MIKE VALERIO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well Jessic, this is the main roadway that leads into Lahaina. It's about a 20-minute drive that way. But if we spin around, this is what people who work and live in Lahaina are having to deal with, a queue, a line to get in that spans right now about a mile and a half behind us.

So what you need to know is that people have been waiting to get in for more than 14 hours in some cases. As we zoom in, you can see a mix of utility workers, families, parents, college kids, people who are just waiting to see if their home survived the inferno, Tuesday night into early Wednesday morning.

We spoke with two drivers before dawn, one of them ended up making it in. The other did not because of a traffic jam, after this roadway, Honoapiilani (ph) highway was reopened just after dawn today. Listen to what both of those drivers told us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PATRICK TURSTON, MAUI RESIDENT: I got out of here by 11:00. Made it all the way to the other side. I was done by 3:00 picking up all the supplies I got, and then got to here. I've been here since 3:00 in the afternoon. VALERIO: You've been here since 3:00?

THURSTON: Yes. Nobody -- none of us has moved. My co-worker, she's up there two trucks. I've got three other co-workers down there. They're back there. They've been here the whole time.

TODD DOMECK MAUI RESIDENCE: It's either laughter or tears, you know. When I talk to all the people in our business that have been affected, about 14 people that lost their houses and so we're just trying to do the most good we can. But it's really frustrating when you can't.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VALERIO: So in terms of the wider picture, there are new figures that are out from FEMA estimating that it's going to cost $5.52 billion to rebuild Lahaina, 2,207 structures either damaged or destroyed.

4,500 people, that is the estimate for the number of people who need to be sheltered in both the near and the long-term. But this, what we are seeing here, is the first chapter to both rebuilding, seeing what survived, and seeing what is left of a place that was so integral to the heart and soul of Maui, Jessica.

[17:29:48]

DEAN: Mike Valerio, thanks so much.

And joining us now is Sherry Menor McNamara. She is the president and CEO of the Hawaii Chamber of Commerce. Sherry, thanks so much for being with us.

And first, we all just want to say how sorry we are. Words feel very empty and insufficient.

We have seen the devastation, and I know you and your friends and relatives are hurting, and it's a really hard time.

I know that the relief funds have been unlocked since President Biden declared a major disaster there. I'm curious if you think that's going to be enough or what comes next?

SHERRY MENOR-MCNAMARA, PRESIDENT & CEO, HAWAII CHAMBER OF COMMERCE: Thank you so much for having me here.

We just wanted to thank everyone around the world for their thoughts and prayers and for their support.

Hawaii is a special place, and I'm sure we all have a story of memories about Hawaii. So all that outpouring of support means so much to us. I just want to thank you for that.

We're right now in the stage of emergency relief. What we learned from the pandemic is the next phase will be the economic recovery and rebuilding stages.

And so that's why for the team of commerce, we are here to help in that phase. Start setting up the groundwork so that when we do enter that phase. Businesses and their employees will have the resources necessary to recover and rebuild.

DEAN: Yes, and I have to be honest with you, we're looking at video while you're talking right now, and it is just absolutely wiped out there.

You start to think, OK, if you're a small business or a business, and you're going to rebuild after this, it seems so overwhelming.

How are you counseling people to -- like where do they begin?

MENOR-MCNAMARA: Yes, it is overwhelming. That location, Lahaina, is a visitor hub. And many at the local businesses there and their employees rely on this business.

And many of them have just started recovering and getting out of that deep, deep hole that the pandemic caused. And so for this to happen and for a business just to be obliterated is just -- is just incredible, indescribable.

And that's why it's even more critical that while we have funds from the federal government, that the private sector also stepped up and helped with these efforts.

Because we can't even start keeping track or counting how much of economic loss is, but we will eventually, and so we want to be prepared for that.

DEAN: Sure. And we know that it's been estimated just now at this point that rebuilding is going to cost in the neighborhood of $5.5 billion, which is a very significant sum of money.

You mentioned the private sector stepping up in addition to what's coming from the government. What does that look like for you? How do you see that partnership moving through the next weeks and months and probably even years to come?

MENOR-MCNAMARA: That's one of the reasons why we launched the business relief fund is to ensure that we can build that fund.

So when businesses are able to assess the damage that was done that we will have the resources available to provide to them so that they can get the ground running again and start to rebuild their business.

Again, we are at the emergency relief stage, so businesses had not been able to enter the area to assess the damage and what the needs are. But that will come. And we know it will be significant.

And the $5.5 billion, that's just capital loss. We're looking at economic loss and the lives and livelihoods of so many that were impacted by this disaster.

So that is why it's critical that we build up this fund so that we are ready to deploy those funds when that time comes.

DEAN: Right, it is so soon. The fires are still being put out in some parts of the island.

I also want to ask you about what one of the congresswomen there in Hawaii said. She said that they, quote, "underestimated the lethality and quickness of the fire."

Do you agree there could have been a stronger response or warning system that was in place?

I know that a lot of the cell phones weren't working. That's how a lot of people were supposed to be warned, and they couldn't even get the messages.

MENOR-MCNAMARA: We could always do better. Right now, they are assessing and investigating what happened and why the sirens did not go off. Until we know what happened, we can't respond to that or we can respond and learn from those what happened.

And so you know, could we have done better? I believe so. But let's start looking forward as to how we can restore the livelihoods of so many that were impacted, and really, in order to build and recover our communities, we need to recover commerce as well.

DEAN: Yes, so much need there.

Sherry Menor-McNamara, thanks for walking us through all of that. We certainly wish you all the best.

MENOR-MCNAMARA: Thank you so much. Thank you.

[17:34:59]

DEAN: And for more information about how you can help the Hawaii wildfire victims, you can go to CNN.com/impact. You can also text the word "Hawaii" to 707070 to donate.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DEAN: We are continuing to follow the strongest indications yet that former President Donald Trump could be indicted for a fourth time, this time in Georgia, as early as next week.

Former Georgia lieutenant governor, Geoff Duncan, who's also a CNN contributor, says he's been instructed to testify Tuesday before a grand jury.

It's part of Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis's investigation into the former president.

We know she's moving forward with a grand jury presentation where she's expected to seek charges against more than a dozen people, stemming from the efforts to overturn the 2020 election.

We're continuing to follow this. We'll, of course, bring you the very latest on this fast-moving story as we get it. [17:40:02]

Meantime, Russian authorities report another Ukrainian missile was shot down over the Black Sea's Kerch Strait.

Earlier today, they say two other missiles were taken down in the same area near the bridge connecting annexed Crimea to the Russian mainland.

The Black Sea has become a flash point in this war with attacks from both sides disrupting shipping. Earlier this month, Ukrainian sea drones attacked and damaged a Russian warship. A Russian oil tanker was also hit.

Retired major general, James "Spider" Marks, is joining us now.

It's great to see you. Thanks so much for making time.

We know that --

MAJ. GEN. JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Good to be here. DEAN: We know that that bridge is not only strategic, it also holds a symbolic value to Russia's Vladimir Putin. Why is that?

MARKS: Well, I think really two things. Number one, a very practical reason it's held in such high regard is that it provides the only linkage prior to the war, the only linkage from the Russian mainland to Crimea. That's significant.

I would say the second thing is they look at this as a piece of Russian technology and engineering that is quite comfortable.

I think there's another piece to it as well is that, militarily, if Russia's going to be successful in terms of their desire to hold Crimea, they have to be able to have multiple accesses into Crimea.

If they lose the Kerch Bridge, they've not got a single route in, and that's the land bridge. That becomes very vulnerable based on the military operations the Ukrainians are conducting right now.

I think that's why they hold this as a key piece of terrain that needs to be maintained.

DEAN: Right. Right.

There's also some new reporting by Britain's Conflict Armament Research Group that Russia has started producing its own version of Iran's Shahed drones.

What do you think that says about Russia's ability to sustain its current attack patterns?

MARKS: Russia is into this fight, and it has been given so far zero -- Putin has been given zero incentive to find an off ramp. In other words, he's going to continue to do what he has been doing for the past year and a half. Ukraine has been doing magnificently at the tactical level. And

they've done some tremendous fighting against the Russians. But they've not been able to isolate, penetrate, force the Russians off Ukrainian soil. We're seeing the beginning of that right now we hope.

So the creation of drones and the use of drones certainly is not new. This is just an acknowledgment that this type of technology, this type of enabler is one that they will continue to use.

And it's a wise decision on their part, certainly on the part of Ukrainians. This is the face of warfare. This is unmanned, autonomous in many cases. So there's low risk. There could be high rewards.

DEAN: This seems like very much where we are in this kind of warfare, in this particular war as well.

And this week, Ukrainian officials called the northern front in the eastern region the epicenter of the hostilities. We know that Kharkiv's military officials are considering a mandatory evacuation of children from more settlements.

What type of offensive is Russia undertaking on that region?

MARKS: You know, Jessica, this is the key question. When you look at the map, you see where Kharkiv is, I really is at the northern flank of the Donbass region where Russia has been putting all of its efforts. And that's where Ukraine has been resisting magnificently.

If Kharkiv is lost, then what happens to the Ukrainian forces is they run the risk of being encircled, potentially flanked, and then further isolated.

That's the last thing you want to be in combat. You don't want to be isolated. You have to have access in. You've got to have a logistic supply coming in as well. You've got to be able to get out if necessary.

If Kharkiv were to fall, then there would be a pretty straight shot south from Kharkiv that would isolate and put at risk those Ukrainian soldiers. That's why that is key to this fight right now.

DEAN: You're really underscoring just how important it is for the Ukrainians to continue to fight and to receive a lot of the aid also that they've gotten from the U.S. and others.

We know this week President Biden asked for an additional $24 billion- plus really for Ukraine, but we have seen some softening -- signs of softening financial support from Americans on this issue.

We had some polling last week from CNN that showed a majority of Americans oppose more U.S. aid for Ukraine.

A CNN poll last week found 55 percent of Americans believe Congress should not authorize additional funding, compared to 45 percent who said Congress should authorize such funding. And just to remind people, a poll that was conducted in the early days

of the Russian invasion back in February of 2022 found 62 percent believe the U.S. should have been doing more.

[17:45:02]

So, General, what do you think --

(CROSSTALK)

DEAN: -- is happening here? Is it just time? Is it kind of out of sight, out of mind? What is the case to be made to the American people that more money to Ukraine is in America's best interests and obviously Ukraine's best interests?

MARKS: Yes, that's -- that's the strategic -- I would say even that's the policy issue.

The key thing here is that what America has done to support the Ukrainians with the support of NATO is quite considerable. And everybody's kind of wearing it down in terms of, what is the desired outcome? What is the strategic outcome.

And as we've seen, President Zelenskyy has established a very high bar. He has said Russians off Ukrainian soil. Yet, what is happening in terms of support does not provide that full desired objective. It's not going to get there from here. And we're seeing that play out right now.

That doesn't mean they're not fighting hard. And Ukrainians are an incredible people. And they're led by a Churchillian-type leader.

The challenge is, is there an actual anticipated outcome where the Russians are going to be forced out of Ukraine entirely?

I think what you're seeing is probably -- I can't speak to the narrative of the polls.

But I think what we're seeing is America's tiring of this. And they're saying, look, we don't know that this is really going to happen. I don't know that Ukraine is going to be able to push Russia on Ukrainian soil. We don't know that that's going to happen.

So what is the end goal? Can President Zelenskyy sign up for a negotiated settlement that would acknowledge, look, Russia has successfully taken over a part of Ukraine, it's criminal, it's illegal, it's brutal. It's horrible, I got it.

But we're not going to be able to force them off unless we decide to put American boots and NATO on the ground to confront Russia directly. That's been a decision that's been crystal clear, we're not going to do that.

That's where we are right now.

DEAN: It is really an interesting moment. All right, Major General James "Spider" Marks, we'll leave it there. Thank you so much for your analysis. We appreciate it.

MARKS: Thank you, Jessica.

DEAN: Up next, just months after suffering cardiac arrest in the middle of an NFL game, Damar Hamlin is back playing in the Buffalo Bills first pre-season game. We'll have details next, live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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[17:51:52]

DEAN: Seven months after he collapsed and nearly died on the football field, Buffalo Bills Safety Damar Hamlin is back in action.

"CNN sports" anchor, Patrick Snell, joining us with more on Hamlin's incredible recovery.

And, Patrick, we use the word "incredible" a lot, but it is exactly that.

PATRICK SNELL, CNN "WORLD SPORT" ANCHOR: Yes, in this case, it's absolutely spot-on, Jessica. No question.

I use the word "remarkable" as well because, to me, it is just that, absolutely amazing to see what has happened here, Hamlin coming back from suffering that cardiac arrest on the field.

That was back seven months ago in Cincinnati and now back on an NFL field this weekend. The 25-year-old making his pre-season debut for Buffalo, being greeted, you can see here, by his teammates before the game with the Indianapolis Colts.

Hamlin played on special teams and defense, as well. He made three tackles, including this stop on a fourth down in the first quarter. This in the Bills' 23-19 victory on Saturday.

Afterwards, the 25-year-old calling it a great experience and another milestone in getting back to myself, as he put it.

His coach, Sean McDermott, calling it a remarkable display of courage, strength, and faith.

It is all so very, very inspiring.

Hamlin, just to reset here, cleared to resume football activities back in April. He's been a full participant in the Bills off-season program.

Hamlin entered the season as a backup now in Buffalo, a really strong secondary. But he should get opportunities to expand his role as the season progresses.

Buffalo has two more pre-season games before the regular season begins on September the 11th, Jessica. That against the New York Jets. Certainly wish him all the very best moving forward. Incredible.

DEAN: We rarely get really happy endings like that so it is nice to see.

Before I let you go, I want to ask you about this incredible day of action at the women's World Cup, especially for Australia.

SNELL: Oh, what a story line. The co-hosts of this tournament. Yes, they've got the job done. We now know the four countries that will contest the semifinals in Australia and New Zealand.

The U.S., remember, sadly for the U.S., getting knocked out in a penalty shootout against Sweden.

This one between Australia and France Saturday just amazing drama. It was 0-0 after 120 minutes. That's when the drama begins.

Aussie keeper, McKenzie Arnold, made a total four saves, she made twice. Gets the retake of her original penalty. Arnold moved off the lane. You can't do that.

It matters not. Because what happens. It was saved again.

And the original penalty is done again. She goes again. It matters not. Because what happens? It was saved again.

The two countries then locked, still level after 18 kicks. This is the pivotal crucial moment as the French teen, Vicky Boettcher, striking the post. Tough moment for such a young player, the 19-year-old really hard on her.

But then comes the moment, all eyes now on spot kick number 20. Courtney Vine somehow keeping her calm. Cool, as you like. Rolls it in there playing in her first World Cup, nerves of steel and seals her place in history, her country's place in history, heartbreak for the French.

[17:54:59]

That winning kick sending the capacity crowd there of the fans down under. Joy unconfined to them and Australia win. An amazing shootout, 7-6.

And, Jessica, I must give a shoutout to my country, England, who also through to the semifinals, as well. The Lionesses beating Colombia on Saturday.

Back to you.

DEAN: It is exciting.

All right, Patrick Snell, thanks so much for the update. We appreciate it.

Let's turn now to this week's "CNN Hero."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OSEI BOATENG, CNN HERO: We've been to communities where they haven't seen a doctor before, literally, they haven't been to the hospital before.

We've designed it like a clinic.

Depending on the person's condition, if they need additional labs, we have some points of care lab we do in the van. We have medications and so it's like a one-stop shop for people.

Up to date, we've served over 4,000 people. Imagine if we had two or three vans.

Our vision is to really expand.

Words cannot describe the feeling you get providing care for someone who otherwise wouldn't be alive if your mobile health van wasn't there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: To see Osei's full story go to CNNheroes.com.

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