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First On CNN: Former GA Lt. Governor Set To Testify In Fulton County Early Next Week; Trump Visits Iowa Ahead Of Possible Fourth Indictment; Fifth Person Charged In Montgomery Boat Dock Brawl; Crews Still Working to Fully Contain Three Major Fires; White House Seeks Funding For Migrant Temporary Housing Program; DHS Report: Teens Breached Some Of Tech's Biggest Firms. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired August 12, 2023 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:02]

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GEOFF DUNCAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I have no expectations as to the questions and I'll certainly answer whatever questions put in front of me and certainly don't want to go any deeper than that to, you know, jeopardize or compromise the investigation. But look, for me, this is a story that is important for Republicans to hear, Americans to hear.

Let's hear the whole truth and nothing but the truth about Donald Trump's actions in the surrounding cast of characters around him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis is expected to seek multiple indictments in the years long investigation into the efforts to overturn the 2020 election in Georgia. CNN political correspondent Sara Murray is here to break it all down for us. Sara, you have been following this case meticulously. And now here we are kind of on the precipice of this week where things are finally going to happen.

What is the significance of what we just heard from the former Lieutenant Governor there?

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, this is essentially the culmination of a two-and-a-half-year criminal investigation that Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis has been overseeing. So, the fact that witnesses have finally been put on notice with a day to appear before this grand jury that can actually issue indictments is an indication that she's going to go before this grand jury, she's going to present her case, potentially, against Donald Trump and, you know, a dozen or so others.

And she's going to ask his grand jury to hand up indictments. And we've been told this presentation could take as long as two days. So, it's possible that she actually begins with this on Monday. And then we see some of these witnesses, including former Lieutenant Governor Geoff Duncan and George Chidi, and independent journalists who we learned was also notified to appear on Tuesday, showing up on Tuesday.

DEAN: OK. And now you've interviewed George Chidi and talk to him. That's going to be the second witness as you just said. What should people know about him?

MURRAY: Well, George Chidi is an interesting one because he's a Democrat, but he's also an independent journalist. And he sort of accidentally stumbled on this meeting of the fake electors at the capitol in Georgia. And, you know, he sort of felt like something fishy was going on, followed people around, got kicked out of the room, where they were meeting, was told this was an education meeting.

And then, you know, come to find out, of course, it's the meeting where they were voting for Donald Trump as, you know, these sort of fake electors, even though Joe Biden won the state. And he's already testified before the special grand jury that collected evidence. So, prosecutors know what he's going to say when they put him before this regular grand jury that they're going to ask for an indictment.

But he sheds light on sort of the secrecy around this meeting and what folks were up to, even though they eventually came out of the meeting and sort of admitted what they were doing.

DEAN: It is kind of remarkable. And you've been down in Georgia, you've been in that area, we know that there are security measures in place that the D.A. has gotten threats against her. What -- kind of paint the picture for us of what you think Monday and Tuesday are going to look like both outside the room where this is happening. And we won't know what happens inside, but potentially what could be going on inside as well.

MURRAY: That's right. I mean, the presentation she makes before the grand jury is done in secret, it's under seal. So what I anticipate is that she's going to go before this grand jury that has normally been hearing robberies and murders and sort of run of the mill cases in Fulton County and that her team is going to say, today, you're going to hear a different kind of case. And then they're going to start to hear either evidence that was collected by the special grand jury that her investigators are presenting or some of these live witnesses.

We've talked about sort of craft this narrative about what happened around the 2020 president presidential election and efforts by Trump and his associates to overturn the results. And outside I think we're going to see a locked down perimeter. I mean, the street in front of the courthouse has already been closed for a couple of days. We've seen barricades, we've seen a big police presence, because she has received a number of threats.

And they are very concerned not just about the district attorney safety, but also the safety of these grand jurors and of these witnesses that could be --

DEAN: Yes. That makes sense. And before we let you go, I also want to ask you that the district attorney in this case, is reportedly seeking more than a dozen indictments against Trump but also against some of his allies. Walk us through who some of these allies might be. Rudy Giuliani, probably, chief among them.

MURRAY: Yes. I mean, we learned that she is likely to seek charges against a dozen or more individuals. Rudy Giuliani has been notified. He's a target in this investigation. He gave, you know, a conspiracy laden presentation before state lawmakers there. He also played a role in sort of overseeing the fake elector slates across seven battleground states. But I think that there are other people that she's also going to be looking at.

Obviously, Donald Trump, who is at the heart of this, I think she's going to be looking at a couple of the people who served as fake electors who did not take immunity deals. So, David Shafer, the Republican Party Chairman, there is probably pretty high on that list. She's going to look at people who were involved in harassment campaigns against election officials, and then people who were involved in this breach in Coffee County, Georgia where a voting system was compromised there.

So, there are quite a few different, you know, facets of this investigation which is probably why it's taken so long.

DEAN: Yes. There are a lot of layers to this. All right. Sara Murray, thanks so much. Your reporting is great. We appreciate you coming in.

MURRAY: Thank you.

DEAN: And for more on this, I want to turn now to a legal expert to talk about some legal analysis. That's former federal prosecutor Renato Mariotti. It's great to see you. He's also the host of the It's Complicated podcast.

[19:05:03]

Renato, thanks for coming in on a Saturday evening. First up, what do you make of this information that we're getting that the lieutenant governor -- the former lieutenant governor, and then also this second witness will be giving testimony before the grand jury in the next couple of days?

RENATO MARIOTTI, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, I think we are on mile 25 of the marathon so to speak. I agree that this certainly means that an indictment is coming. You know, a few months ago, Fani Willis said an indictment was imminent. She got a little bit of criticism when that took longer than expected, you know, these cases can be complicated, but it really looks like we are on the eve of an indictment now.

And I think, you know, the fact that they are upping security, she says, A, you know, her prosecutors working from home, for example. That all suggests that we're going to be seeing that fourth indictment of Donald Trump very soon. And, of course, some other potential defendants as well.

DEAN: Right. And we know that Duncan, Geoff Duncan, along with 75 other witnesses have already testified before a special purpose grand jury, as someone who's familiar with all of this. Explain to us the process of getting all of that information from the special purpose grand jury to this new one. How does that all work?

MARIOTTI: Great question. I mean, they don't have to put all of the information, every witness into the new grand jury. They just have to have enough information for the new grand jury to have the evidence that needs to indict. Sometimes what you do is essentially read over the testimony from the prior grand jury into the new one. Have someone literally read the transcript of what transpired in the other grand jury.

The fact that they're calling live witnesses suggests to me that they may have some additional questions that came up during the course of their investigation. After all, the district attorney has been trying to negotiate as you pointed out a moment ago, some immunity deals, for example. Some of the fake electors. So, what they're going to be doing now, putting evidence in front of the grand jury, there's no other side there, there's no defense asking, you know, difficult questions or cross examining those witnesses.

And so, as a result, the prosecution is going to put on his case. There are no rules of evidence that govern that. I would expect the grand jury to return an indictment. And that's why I feel pretty confident at this point that we're going to see an indictment, you know, in the coming days or weeks.

DEAN: And if that ends up happening and those indictments come down against Trump, and also some of his allies, how much of a challenge do you think is going to be for Trump's team to defend? Because, again, just to remind everybody, this would be the fourth indictment that the former president had been part of and what makes this different? And how much of a challenge will it be for Trump's legal team?

MARIOTTI: Some big questions. What was the starting point, one thing that people really underestimate or they miss is how hard it is to defend a multi-front war in criminal defense. I've done it myself personally, it is very, very challenging to represent a client who's facing criminal indictment on multiple fronts. Because while the prosecutor in this case, Fani Willis, and her team can focus like a laser on the -- what they need to do to get a conviction, Trump's team has to balance a bunch of different competing concerns.

In other words, if he makes a decision in this case, that can impact the other cases. The indictment she brings could have an impact, for example, on witnesses who might testify elsewhere. So, definitely a challenge for his team. They've got a very compressed schedule to try to, you know, prepare for trial on multiple fronts. Also, this is an indictment that, you know, Trump cannot easily do away with, if he gets elected president.

There's a pardon process in Georgia. That would not involve certainly the President of the United States. Wouldn't even involve directly the governor of Georgia. So, you know, there'll be a part and board that he essentially go to. He couldn't -- and the attorney general of the United States who might be appointed by a future President Trump couldn't get rid of that investigation directly. So that's one challenge. And this is also unlike that Manhattan case which is also not a federal case. This involves the core conduct in his presidency. This is truly charging him with this conduct wall president. And historic indictment. The first state indictment, charging a President of the United States with trying to subvert an election, trying to subvert the constitutional process and the peaceful transfer of power.

So, it's a historic indictment. It's going to be a big challenge. And it's just yet another thing for Trump's defense team to try to deal with.

DEAN: Yes, it is. It is absolutely historic. And you make a great point to remind everyone it is this is a state case that does make it different, especially when it comes to any potential pardon that he could, you know, try to give to himself. Before you go, I do want to ask you lastly about the fact that there potentially could be other people including Trump that are indicted in this as the D.A. goes after charges of conspiracy and racketeering.

[19:10:10]

That's a bit of a different case. And we've talked a little bit in earlier hours about how everyone that is indicted is responsible and connected to the actions of the others. Help people understand how that is different than some of these other indictments that we've seen.

MARIOTTI: It's a great question. Let's draw a contrast with the January 6 indictment we just saw from Jack Smith. In that case, there's one defendant, Donald Trump. There's all these other people who are unindicted coconspirators. People like oh, I don't know, Rudy Giuliani, Jeffrey Clark, John Eastman, these sort of crooked lawyers, but they were not charged. There's one defendant in the courtroom that is Donald Trump.

Here, it, you know, based on the reporting, it sounds like there may be a dozen people charged. What does that mean? Well, first of all, there's potential flippers, there's potential people who are going to flip and cooperate against Trump. In addition, these people may ultimately be witnesses in another case. So, for example, if Rudy Giuliani is facing an indictment in Georgia, hypothetically, that may impact his desire to waive his Fifth Amendment right and testify at a trial in D.C. or elsewhere.

DEAN: Yes.

MARIOTTI: So, you know, that's why I say there's an interplay between these cases that ultimately may work to Trump's detriment.

DEAN: It makes -- yes. It makes a lot of sense. All right. Renato Mariotti, thanks so much for your expertise. We appreciate it.

MARIOTTI: Thank you.

DEAN: Still to come. Trump's legal woes are casting a shadow on the 2024 presidential race. There is the political side of this, as the other GOP hopefuls are trying to carve out a lane for themselves. We're going to take you live to the Iowa State Fair, that's next.

Plus, Hawaii's lieutenant governor will join me to give an update on the devastating wildfires that have now killed at least 80 people.

And later, is there a breakthrough in the negotiations between the Writers Guild and the studios to end the strike? We'll bring you some details ahead. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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[19:16:14]

DEAN: Former President Donald Trump today appearing at the Iowa State Fair with other Republican presidential candidates as well. And it comes as we learn a possible fourth criminal indictment against the former president could now come as soon as this week.

CNN's Jeff Zeleny is live there in Iowa for us. And Jeff, Trump's legal troubles really do not seem to have impacted his supporters there.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF U.S. NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jessica certainly show the split screen that the former president will be navigating over the next several months as he runs for president and contends with all of these legal challenges. Really, at the very time that the news was breaking about the developments in Georgia, the former president was landing here.

He was defined as ever about this defending that phone call in Georgia. And he certainly -- he spent a little under a couple hours here in a very well planned and a choreographed appearance. He didn't meet with many members of the public who were not already supporters. These were pretty tightly controlled events. But as he was leaving town, he was asked specifically about the Georgia case and if he would ever accept a plea deal, not surprisingly, he was to find about that as well.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there any chance you take a plea deal in Georgia?

DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We did nothing wrong. We don't ever take a --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, yes, yes.

TRUMP: We don't take plea deals. It's a wise guy question. It's a wise guy. We don't take plea deals because we did nothing wrong. It's called election interference. You know what that is? These indictments are brought out by Biden, who can't even put two sentences together.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: From the three indictments, he already has facing him and the one potential additional indictment in Georgia. When you talk to his supporters, his true believers without question are still with him. They believe that he's being ganged up on in the words of one voter. He said he'll take nothing for granted and will continue to be campaigning here aggressively over the next five months.

But Jessica, the question is, will his standing in the polls drop it all? Will his standing in people's minds drop it all as these indictments unfold? We'll have to watch that play out.

DEAN: Right. That is -- that is like the big question, right? And it's been so consistent over the last several months, the last several indictments. We'll see if this one is any different. All right. Jeff Zeleny in Iowa. Someone who loves Iowa as much as me maybe more. It's always great to see you. Thanks, Jeff.

And still ahead. We're going to take you live to Maui as official search for the missing and residents try to get a hold of just basic necessities. Your live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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[19:22:59]

DEAN: A fifth person involved in the brawl along the Montgomery Alabama riverfront last weekend is now under arrest. Police say Reggie Ray turned himself in and is now being held in the city jail. In a widely circulated video of the fight, Ray is seen swinging a chair. Court record show he was charged with one count of disorderly conduct. His attorney says Ray was "Involuntarily roped into the disorderly conduct initiated by a violent white mob." He now joins four other defendants who face assault charges.

The nationwide Writer's Strike has now passed the 100-day mark and now there does appear to be some movement. After talks resumed Friday, the Writers Guild said it received a counterproposal from film and television producers and the union says it will respond next week. Meanwhile, the strike will push back fall television premieres and late night television shows have not aired new episodes since May when that strike began.

He is known as Mr. W by his students and now Atlanta Braves fans are doing their homework about pitcher Allen Winans. He tossed seven shutout innings in the Braves. 21 to three win against his former team, the New York Mets. And the Brave state Winans supplements his minor league salary in the offseason, working as a substitute teacher in his native Bakersfield, California. This was his first one and just a second appearance in the big leagues.

A moment of normalcy in the Ukrainian city of Odesa. The area's beaches have reopened for the first time since the Russian invasion. Odesa once thrived with busy holiday resorts but has been the site of relentless shelling almost since the war began. Authorities say the beach will still be close to swimmers during air raid alerts.

Let's go now to Hawaii. Massive wildfires on the island of Maui are now the deadliest natural disaster in the state's history. At least 80 people have died, thousands are displaced and many others remain missing. Federal agencies are helping with recovery efforts. CNN's chief climate correspondent Bill Weir is there in Maui.

[19:25:06]

Bill, I know you've been talking with people on the ground. Tell us what you're hearing and what you're seeing.

BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: Well, we're hearing basically all of the emotions you can imagine. You know, sort of the five stages of grief the community is going through in real time coming to grips with this, something that was unimaginable. We're looking back, the state did a climate assessment last year and the threat of wildfire was listed as low. That was the only word addressed to this risk and here we are now.

A couple of days after we're going through the phases now of rebuilding the sense of community, Ohana, as they call it in the islands here. These are just improvised boat lifts of folks who've brought down propane and clothing and water to send to the folks who've been sort of trapped in the worst hit firestorm areas over there. We're expecting a press conference at 4:00 from FEMA. We've heard various levels of frustration from people related to the response.

Either inability to get back down the highway. There was an incident yesterday that caused a lot of angst. People lined up for miles for hours, they open the highway and closed it because some are parking their cars and walking into the Lahaina just as cadaver dog teams which are finding remains. So they shut the highway down again, which frustrated everybody in line. There was a traffic fatality at the same time. So it's just one thing after another for Maui officials.

And now you're seeing sort of these crowdsource organic first responders come together just out of a sense of obligation and community and a sense of service. You've heard the big visitors, the big name, bold name, bold-faced name visitors to Hawaii, like Jeff Bezos pledging $100 million. You're hearing sort of conflicting messages from some saying, don't come to Maui. This is not the time.

There's a phrase here I believe pono, which is being in harmony with yourself, your surroundings, your people and it's -- whether it's pono or not to welcome tourists during such a tragic time is a really conflicting thing on an island depends so much on the tourist economy. You got people who saved all year to come here and are trying to mourn and do the best they can.

I just met some tourists from California and Arizona who says they took a load of stuff down to the shelter because she felt just a sense of doing something. Now that says, Jessica, is how do you manage the response so they're not overwhelmed with things that they can't deliver? What's the right way to do it? Local officials have a lot to think about. A lot of message right now.

DEAN: Yes. There is just so much to do. And they're still putting out fires there. Bill Weir for us on the ground in Maui. Thanks so much.

And joining me now is the Lieutenant Governor of Hawaii, Sylvia Luke. Lieutenant Governor, thanks so much for making time. I know you all are very busy. And let me just first start by saying that our hearts here on the mainland go out to you and all of the Hawaiians. I know that it has been absolutely devastating for so many people there who have lost so much. And so, I want to start by asking you if you have any update on fatalities and also how many people remain missing?

LT. GOV. SYLVIA LUKE (D) HAWAII: You know, we really appreciate that, Jessica, you know, we have received so much support, not just locally, but nationally and internationally as well. This has been really devastating for our community. And from the -- we started with a death toll of 60, now it has significantly climb. We still have not completely done or as -- done the assessment. The county is -- the county of Maui is still doing its assessment.

And our fear is the death toll will continue to climb. A lot of needs out there. And the community is really coming together -- coming together to aid the people of Maui.

DEAN: And it sounds like based on what you're saying. I know Bill Weir, our correspondent was saying that they expect a press conference later today but that -- those numbers will sadly the number of fatalities and those missing may continue to go up as you all are able to get in there and really assess the situation. I know that there has been criticism of the state's response to this natural disaster and this preparedness level.

There's one Hawaii Congresswoman that said that they underestimated the lethality and quickness of the fire. Do you agree that government officials underestimated the risk?

LUKE: You know, I think it's our responsibility to do an assessment and to figure out if there are certain things that could be avoided. How do we protect our citizens? How do we protect individuals who are on our islands?

[19:29:57]

LT. GOV. SYLVIA LUKE (D-HI): That's why I think the Governor has called for investigation by our attorney general's office to have a deep investigation of the Maui County initial response and also the entire response initially.

I think it is terrific that we are doing an internal investigation to take a look at what needs to be done and how we can manage it in the future, as well, but in the meantime, it is really about continuing to take care of the health and safety of our citizens.

We have a lot of work to do, we're still in the stage of locating individuals who are missing. We're in the middle of getting necessary food and water and supplies to many of the people who have lost their homes, have lost their businesses.

This is a really difficult time and all the assessments and investigation will happen, but really the priority is to make sure that people are fed and people are have a place to stay.

DEAN: Yes, I hear you. I know, it's an acute moment and that things are still very much ongoing.

But do you think that the risk was assessed properly? I mean, we're looking at video right now of just incredible devastation.

LUKE: You know, that is still -- we have to do a hard look. We have to look within and take a look at what was the county's response? What was the state's response? What was our federal partners' response?

I think we'll be taking a look at all of it, and, again, you know, really, the time is also to do those significant things, but at the same time, you know, we have to continue to locate individuals who are missing, individuals who are without power and individuals who are still not connected, because Internet and broadband and electricity is still down in so many areas. And we need to make sure that we have boots on the ground to reach those individuals to make sure that they have the necessary means to survive through this difficult time.

DEAN: I'm also curious what discussions the state is having with the power company, Hawaii Electric about that decision not to cut power, like companies usually do during wildfire emergencies.

Can you tell us what kind of conversations are going on around that?

LUKE: Yes, that's also part of the discussion as well. We did have a conversation about the electrification of lines, what steps they have taken to ensure that situation was safe, even when they're turning on power. I understand one of the lines has now been electrified. Before they turn it on, they need to make sure that it's safe to be going to all the homes and businesses, so those conversation continue as well.

And as I said, that's why the governor has initiated -- excuse me, go ahead.

DEAN: You can finish. Go on.

LUKE: Oh, no, go ahead. That's why, again, the governor has initiated the attorney general's response to take a look at the overall strategy and overall response by all concerned.

DEAN: And we've also seen reporting from our correspondents there, and then also people that we've been talking to over the last several hours, that main highway to Lahaina was reopened and it closed again, people are getting kind of hung up there trying to go back in and out.

And again, obviously there's still a rescue operation and assessment going on there, but can you tell us more about when access may be restored for residents who are trying to get in and see if anything is left or, you know, get to potentially to their homes if they're still standing?

LUKE: Right. Those decisions are made by the county of Maui. So we defer a lot of the access questions to them. I know individuals are very frustrated, and people want to get back to their homes. You know, there have been structures that have not been destroyed and individuals want to go back. And so we're deferring to the counties to determine what access could be open.

What we are concerned about is the necessary access to give utility workers and essential workers to continue to do their work.

DEAN: And before we let you go, in terms of the assistance that you're getting from the federal government, from FEMA, from the federal government, obviously the President has declared a disaster there, are you getting what you need so far? I know it's still very early.

[19:35:00]

LUKE: You know, we have such great federal partners. Our congressional delegation has been very engaged and FEMA, we are in communication with FEMA. I have also personally talked to FEMA personnel. We are tremendously grateful for the support of the federal government. We definitely have many of the military personnel here stationed in Hawaii, and they came to assist to put out wildfires. They are now assisting to help us in the cleanup and the recovery, so we are very grateful for everyone who has stepped up to help our state.

DEAN: Lieutenant Governor Sylvia Luke, thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate it.

LUKE: No, thank you. Thank you, everyone.

DEAN: And for more information about how you can help Hawaii wildfire victims, you can go to cnn.com/impact. You can also text the word Hawaii to 707070 to donate.

We'll be right back.

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[19:40:18]

DEAN: We are continuing to follow developing news, the strongest indication yet that former President Donald Trump could be indicted for a fourth time this time in Georgia as early as next week.

Former Georgia lieutenant governor, Geoff Duncan, who is also a CNN contributor says he has been instructed to testify Tuesday before a grand jury. This is part of Fulton County district attorney, Fani Willis' investigation into the former president.

She is moving forward with a grand jury presentation where she is expected to seek charges against more than a dozen people stemming from efforts to overturn the 2020 election.

We will continue to follow this. we will bring you the very latest on this fast moving story.

Back here in DC, the White House is asking Congress to fund temporary housing for migrant families. The program would be part of a broader funding request, that's according to a Homeland Security official.

CNN's Priscilla Alvarez, joining us now. And Priscilla, this could likely set up a battle with congressional Republicans.

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: That's exactly right, Jessica, and it was already part of a supplemental that was expected to create those tensions. This is a bigger funding request for Ukraine, for disasters, and also for border management.

Now of that $40 billion, $2.2 billion would be for border management operations according to a breakdown from the White House.

Now, the Department of Homeland Security wants to use some of those funds, if approved, to set up new facilities that would be for migrant families. This is a very vulnerable population, one that this administration like others have grappled with.

And what these new facilities would do is provide a place to put migrant families as they go through expedited asylum and deportation proceedings and allow them to go in and out, but then also remain there overnight.

So this is a new concept. We have not seen this before. Officials say that it is not family detention that has come under fierce criticism before, it is a policy that the Biden administration ended in the first days of him entering office, and then one that when they considered reviving, they faced fierce criticism from their allies and Democratic lawmakers.

Now, in a statement, the Department of Homeland Security spokesperson tells me the following: "This supplemental package will allow DHS to fund temporary housing facilities and services to manage families through the immigration process quickly and facilitate the removal for those who do not have a legal basis to stay."

Now, Jessica, I have been talking to officials who say that they are monitoring an uptake of migrant families crossing the US-Mexico border. A few months ago, remember, we were talking about a potential crisis. That did not come to fruition in the way that the administration thought it might after the end of a pandemic-era COVID restriction ended, but they have started to see an uptick in these numbers, and again, it being a vulnerable population, they are seeing what tools in the toolbox they have to at least try to mitigate that early and trying to manage the weeks to come -- Jessica.

DEAN: Yes. Priscilla Alvarez at the White House for us, thanks so much for that reporting.

And still ahead tonight, a group of teenagers who were able to hack into some of the world's biggest tech companies. The Department of Homeland Security says this should be a wake-up call. That's ahead. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:47:51] DEAN: A wake-up call after a group of teenage hackers were able to break into some of the world's biggest companies. The Department of Homeland Security led a review into how the group managed to breach Microsoft, Samsung, and others, and what the review found is that in general, it's far too easy for the cyber criminals in this case, teenagers to gain access.

Glenn Gerstell, is a senior advisor at the Center for Strategic and International Studies as well as a former general counsel with the NSA.

Glenn, great to have you with us.

First off, how did these teenagers pull this off? And how concerned should we be that they were able to do it pretty easily?

GLENN GERSTELL, SENIOR ADVISOR, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC AND INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: Very concerned is the short answer. This was a combination of just old-fashioned fraud and scams, coupled with rather sophisticated technical abilities, but it shows that despite all the complexities and safeguards we have in our computer networks, they remain vulnerable. They are globally vulnerable.

This was a group of teenagers in England and Brazil, who as you said were able to attack everything from Samsung in Korea to the Brazilian Ministry of Health and they did it in essence, through stealing phone identities. The very same technique that enables you to take your current phone and upgrade it to a new phone with a new SIM card, so to speak, is exactly the vulnerability that they exploited.

So that when you log into a lot of website, and you get a text message that says we want to confirm it's really you and so-called multi- factor authentication, they were able to get that message diverted to their phones instead of the real users' phones.

So it was a combination of sophistication, as well as old-fashioned scamming.

DEAN: Yes. That's remarkable because I always think I'm being so smart with multi-factor authentication, and it sounds like they can get around that, too. And you're making this point that these are teenagers, obviously very smart and good at this, but how are they different than then hackers who you know, obviously, are far more sinister in what they're trying to do.

GERSTELL: So this just proves that you don't have to be the Russian spy agency or the Chinese spy agency to break into networks. Obviously they're going -- those kinds of sophisticated nation state entities, they're not going to be wasting their time on small potatoes, so to speak, they're going to be going after classified networks and the strategic objectives for them.

[19:50:19]

But this shows the complexity of our internet is so significant because it wasn't designed for authentication in the first place, but it is possible even for someone of relatively lesser sophistication, these teenagers, obviously not sophisticated spy agencies, were able to break into networks because of the vulnerabilities, the layers of vulnerabilities, and the fact that we're fundamentally still relying on passwords, which as this report makes clear, is an outmoded and ultimately very dangerous thing to rely on.

DEAN: Right isn't very safe or secure. The DHS led a review board, found that it's going to take a decade to eradicate vulnerability in software used by thousands of corporations and government agencies. A decade seems like a very long time for a very pressing issue with a lot of vulnerable data.

What can they do right now? Or is there anything that can be done right now to fix some of these problems in the immediate?

GERSTELL: So I think we have to take a longer view of this. There's no doubt that in 2020 and 2021, we were experiencing waves of attacks, the SolarWinds attacks, the Colonial Pipelines attacks, ransomware attacks every day in the newspapers about everything from school districts to companies and so there's no doubt that the problem got out of hand.

And I think over the last couple of years, the Biden administration and the cybersecurity community working together have made some big strides in this area, and I think the frequency of some of these attacks is reduced, hopefully, we're getting a little better.

But the reality is, it's complex and it is in fact going to take a long time. The good news is, as a technical matter, we know how to do this. This is not a mystery disease. We know how to solve this. It is going to take time and money and unfortunately, in the meantime, we're going to have to endure some attacks.

DEAN: That's right. All right, Glenn Gerstell, fascinating. Thanks so much for providing analysis on that.

GERSTELL: Thank you.

DEAN: We appreciate it.

And we'll be right back

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:56:49]

DEAN: A bear at a zoo in Knoxville is making a splash tonight after video of him playing in a bubble bath captivated the Internet.

CNN's Jeanne Moos reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): You know the old nursery rhyme --

(Rub-a-dub-dub Three men in a tub.)

MOOS (voice over): Yes, well how about one black bear, a 450-pound black bear delighting visitors Zoo Knoxville in Tennessee.

How did this 10-year-old named Finn become the bubble bath bear?

PHIL COLCLOUGH, DIRECTOR OF ANIMAL CARE, ZOO KNOXVILLE: It was kind of a happy accident. The keeper staff were cleaning the pond with Dawn --

MOOS (voice over): Dawn dishwashing liquid, the wildlife experts know --

VOICE OVER: It's tough on grease, yet gentle.

MOOS (voice over): Dawn has been used for decades to clean creatures caught in oil spills.

So when keepers finished cleaning the bear pond and the diluted Dawn created a sudsy bath, Finn the bear chose to frolic in it. Viewers were smitten. One British bear conservation group tweeted that he loves the stinging suds up his nose and in his eyes, not turning a bear into a public freak show.

But Zoo Knoxville says its vets clear all products, that there's no problem.

COLCLOUGH: No more than your kids in a bathtub full of bubble bath.

MOOS (voice over): It's the Dawn of the Bear Bath Club with members like Miss Tundra the Grizzly at the Denver Zoo and minus the suds, this black bear splashing around at the Oregon Zoo, you can almost imagine Finn the bear saying --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Calgon, take me away.

VOICE OVER: Indulge yourself in Calgon luxury.

MOOS (voice over): Finn transformed himself from a black bear to a polar bear.

Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DEAN: Who doesn't like a bath?

A quick programming note for you, what it's really like in the post- pandemic restaurant world. The Food Network's Bobby Flay joining "The Whole Story" with Anderson Cooper to see how the industry is adapting. It is tomorrow at 8:00 PM Eastern only on CNN.

And before we leave this evening, an update on the situation in Hawaii, we know that firefighters in Maui are still working to fully contain three major fires. And as of this hour, the death toll has reached at least 80. Teams are searching the area of Lahaina now with the help of cadaver dogs and we are seeing more video of truly harrowing escapes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're going to walk somewhere over there by the beach. [Bleep]. Oh, [bleep]. MJ wrong turn. Wrong turn. Oh [bleep]. Oh [bleep]. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Not like this. Not like this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Keep going. Keep going.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not like this. No. Good car. [Bleep].

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: So terrifying. Officials planning a news conference in just a few hours and you can stay with CNN for the latest.

And be sure to join us for updates on "CNN This Morning" Weekend, it starts at 6:00 AM.

And thank you for joining me this evening. I'm Jessica Dean in Washington, DC. I am going to see you again tomorrow night starting at 5:00 Eastern.

"The '90s" is up next.

[20:00:21]