Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Trump Expected To Surrender In Georgia Next Thursday Or Friday; Hilary Could Dump Year Of Rain Across Parts Of Southwest; New York City Officials Seek Access To Shuttered Correctional Center To House Asylum Seekers; Woman Says Somebody Used Her Photos To Create Fake Viral Liberal Twitter Account; How A Republican From Florida Became The Face Of A Viral Left-Wing Twitter Account; Christie Draws Contrast From Trump On Putin Ties; Search Dogs Are In Maui To Help Recovery Efforts. Aired 12-1p ET

Aired August 19, 2023 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:59:58]

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Law enforcement analysts say this taskforce will go after the robbers using a multi-layered approach, using cyber investigators to monitor communications, facial recognition, informants, physical surveillance.

And they say, they'll also track the people who buy and sell the stolen merchandise. Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello again, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me on Fredricka Whitfield.

And we begin this hour with new details on the negotiations for the surrender of former President Donald Trump in Georgia. With less than a week to turn himself in at the Fulton County Jail in Atlanta, sources tell CNN that Trump is now expected to surrender on Thursday or Friday.

He and 18 co-defendants are charged with plotting to subvert the 2020 election results in Georgia.

Local officials have said they will treat the former president like any other defendant. Sources tell CNN that Trump's team has been in contact with the district attorney's office about the conditions and logistics for his surrender.

CNN's Ryan Young has our report.

RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We continue to try and get a sense of what's next as we continue to watch developments involving the former president turning himself in. That's after Trump and 18 others were indicted by a Fulton County grand jury on Monday.

From a security standpoint, we know there has been a heightened watch and level of security outside the courthouse and the jail. In fact, you can no longer just drive up to the jail where the former president is expected to turn himself in. Two deputies now sit at the end of the driveway, limiting access. We've also learned the secret service as visited the Fulton County Jail, to work with sheriff department officials to get an evaluation of the current security situation, and determine what needs to be done to protect the former president.

Jail insiders believe the process for Donald Trump will clearly be shorter than what a normal person would go through in the process. And as of right now, I've checking the jail web site, none of the names of the people indicted have been included. And the names of people who've been booked.

Obviously, next week will be very busy. There is a belief from some law enforcement officials that the end of the week is when we can see the former President Donald Trump show up at the jail to be booked in.

WHITFIELD: All right. Ryan Young, thank you so much.

All right. Joining me right now to talk more about Trump's surrender and indictment is Brian Kelly. He is a former federal prosecutor who tried fugitive mobster James Whitey Bulger.

All right, let's talk first about this news that Trump is expected to surrender Thursday or Friday in Fulton County. The Fulton County sheriff says he will be treated like any other defendant. He is the former president, used to Secret Service detail.

How do you think his booking will set a tone for the trial?

BRIAN KELLY, FORMER ASSISTANT UNITED STATES ATTORNEY: Well, thanks for having me, first of all.

I don't think his booking will have any effect on the trial that the jury who decides this is not going to be shown or expose anything from the booking process.

WHITFIELD: So, throughout, if we can kind of reflect on what you've been accustomed to while prosecuting the case against, you know, mobster Whitey Bulger.

You said that he was trying to game the system, on your words, you know, manipulate the system, so, that he was never brought to trial for his role in the 19 murders.

And he was trying to slow down -- his attorneys were trying to slow down the trial. That was one way. Do you see that there might be any similarities in this Trump case or the approach that his attorneys might have while facing these charges?

KELLY: Well, I think in every case, it's to the defendants' advantage to slow things down, because typically, the evidence does not get better for the prosecution as time goes by. Sometimes, witnesses' memories lapse, or sometimes, witnesses, you know, no longer interested in participating and have to be forced to participate. And if the more time the defense has, the more time they can find the weaknesses in the state or federal government's case. So, I think in any -- in any criminal case, the defense is probably going to be playing for a little bit more time than the government wants.

WHITFIELD: And at the time, Bulger's attorney, J.W. Kearney, Jr., said the volume of evidence from prosecutors -- the prosecutors' office was so enormous, and that they needed more time to go through it.

Well, that sounds very familiar. I mean, so, is this a common defense that gets, you know, any serious consideration from the presiding judge?

KELLY: Well, I think most fair-minded judges will listen to that, especially here. You know, unlike the Bulger trial, which was just one defendant, there is now 19 defendants in this case, which is frankly, an extraordinary number.

And I don't see how the D.A. is going to get all 19 in the courtroom. It seems physically impossible. They will have to split the case up. They will have to, what they call, sever different groups into different trials.

I think, you know, just logistically, 19 people in one courtroom, with one jury, with all these different defense lawyers is impossible.

[12:05:06]

So, the state's going to have to, at some point, soon figure out how they want to proceed, who goes first, and I'm sure, everyone is going to be fighting to go last. Because if you don't go first, you can see the state's case, you can see how the witnesses perform, you can get to know the weaknesses of the other side.

WHITFIELD: So, given that it would be a challenge to try to have all of those defendants in the courtroom at once, is it your feeling that the D.A.s office is hoping that some of those co-defendants are going to want to plead?

And so, there would never be a case where all of them would be in the Court at once? Or that they would have to, you know, sever or split up as you just mentioned?

KELLY: Yes, I think that's always the prosecutors hope, right? That the case gets simplified when numerous defendants plead guilty or reach a plea agreement with the state or federal government. That simplifies it. You will notice that in the federal charges out of D.C., there's only four charges.

Here, there is multiple charges, including a massive RICO conspiracy charge, which is pretty complicated. So, I don't think they want 19 people with -- they probably all have at least two lawyers. So, they don't need all those lawyers --

(CROSSTALK)

WHITFIELD: Get more crowded. KELLY: -- throwing rocks at their case. That's a major headache.

WHITFIELD: So, let's talk about what's at the core here, you know, of this case, of the indictment. Trump is facing 13 charges on this Georgia indictment, perhaps the biggest threat he faces is the racketeering or RICO charges. And this is a law that was originally intended to fight organized crime and mobsters, just so you, you know, experience you prosecuted several, you know, RICO cases.

Tell us why it is being used in this case and why Trump's legal team should be concerned?

KELLY: OK. Well, so, the federal RICO statute was passed in 1970. And the Georgia one (PH) was 1981. This is about 33 states across the country that have their own state RICO charges that are modeled after the federal version.

In Georgia, that -- the RICO statute is a little bit broader. It involves it permits more crimes to be considered as part of the racketeering activity. And so, it's concerning for any defendant, because it permits the state or the prosecution to introduce a lot of evidence that otherwise they would not be able to present. Because the RICO statute is so broad, it requires the state to prove that there was a racketeering enterprise, and all these people were trying to, for the same goal, overturn the state election.

And they're going to have to prove that there's a pattern of racketeering, you can't be unrelated crimes, you can't be a tax evasion, and like --

(CROSSTALK)

WHITFIELD: The goal has to be the same.

KELLY: Aliens, including smuggling or something. It has to be a pattern that's for common goal. And since they've charged a conspiracy, it makes it easier for the state to prove it. Because all you have to show is that these people were agreed to this crime, and they knew that somebody would commit two or more -- they themselves do not have to commit to predicate crimes, but somebody in the conspiracy did. They have to know -- knowingly agree that this was the purpose.

So, the conspiracy charge is very broad. Frankly, it's a little complicated the way they have draft it. You know, they have included what's called, overt acts, in addition to racketeering acts. The racketeering acts or the alleged crimes. Overt acts can be anything. They went -- they went and had, you know, gave a speech. They went had a meeting.

So, it's -- it has the risk of backfiring against the state, because if they've made it so complicated, in so many different overt acts, have been -- I think, 160 had been thrown into the indictment, which, to me, seems unnecessary. They should have simplified it and made it more straightforward if they didn't want to risk confusing, you know, the 12 jurors who are going to be sitting there, listening to all this evidence, trying to decide, well, who knew what, when, who agreed to what, what's this overt act mean? Is that a racketeering act? Is it not? It can get very confusing.

WHITFIELD: Ultimately, do you see this case staying in Georgia? Or do you see it going the way of a federal court, which is what the former chief of staff Mark Meadows and his attorneys want?

KELLY: You know, honestly, I haven't studied that issue very much. But I think, they're going to be hard pressed to get it out of the state court system. I'm not really sure what would give them the right to transfer it to federal court.

These are state crimes that have been charged by a state grand jury, by a state prosecutor regarding a state, you know, the state federal election. So, that's probably the hook that will try to say look, it's about a federal election. These should be decided in federal court, but you know -- you know, we'll have to see what the Court say to that.

WHITFIELD: All right. Brian Kelly, great to see you again. Thank you so much.

KELLY: All right. Nice to see you as well.

WHITFIELD: All right. Now, to an urgent storm warning. The Southwest, bracing for what's being called catastrophic and life-threatening flooding as Hurricane Hilary barrels toward the region.

[12:10:07]

Right now, Hilary is churning in the Pacific as a Category 3 storm, with wind speeds of 125 miles an hour. It's expected to weaken as it moves north. But forecasters warn it could dump a year's worth of rain across parts of California, Nevada, and Arizona in a very short amount of time.

CNN meteorologist Allison Chinchar, joining us again right now. So, Allison, now, the storm is so severe, it triggered a first ever tropical storm warning for California.

ALLISON CHINCHAR, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes, that's right. And again, it's really all in anticipation of this storm, continuing on that north northwest track at 16 miles per hour and pushing all of that moisture into this desert southwest.

We're already starting to see some of those northern bands really begin to fill back in with convection. So, you're starting to see more and more thunderstorms develop. And yes, even some of them spreading into the U.S. already.

You've got some thunderstorms across portions of Southern California, Western Arizona. And even now, a few beginning to spread into extreme Southern Nevada.

So, again, more of this is going to fill in as we go through the afternoon, and especially the evening and overnight hours tonight, because that storm is going to continue to push north, as it does, it's pushing into colder water. So, we are anticipating further weakening as it moves north, likely pushing into California as a tropical storm. But don't let the fact that the winds are weakening, make you think that, oh, OK, but then we probably won't get as much rain.

The rain forecast remains the same as this storm continues to push up. The bulk of the heavy rain really sets in overnight tonight, continues all the way into the day Sunday. And then, most of it finally wraps up by the latter half of the day Monday. So, you're talking a full 48- hour time period, where we're looking at moderate to heavy rainfall. That's why you've got a high risk for excessive rainfall and this pink shaded area here.

That includes Death Valley, stretching down into Palm Desert, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, and San Diego, all part of that moderate risk. Because again, remember, folks, for some of these areas, you're talking a year's worth of rain in less than a day.

Widespread rainfall totals, two to four inches. And I know especially folks that live east of the Rockies may think two to four inches doesn't sound that bad. But for a lot of these areas, it is. It like, I said, it's more than they get an entire year. In some cases, it's more than multiple years-worth of rain in just a 24-hour time period.

And outside of that two to four, there will be some spots in here that could pick up six, eight, even as much as 10 inches of rain in just a 48-hour time period, with the bulk of that falling tonight, going into the day on Monday.

And another thing to consider too, there is a second system that is just behind Hilary.

(CROSSTALK)

WHITFIELD: No.

CHINCHAR: That is expected to push out behind the similar track. And then, Fred, we also have four other systems, we're keeping an eye on in the Atlantic.

So, it's getting to that time of year, we'll have more updates for you on Hilary and the rest of the tropics in the next hour.

WHITFIELD: Yes, too much all at once. That's for sure. Allison Chinchar, thanks so much.

CHINCHAR: Thanks.

WHITFIELD: All right. Southern California faces an exceptionally rare threat with residents preparing now by filling sandbags ahead of that storm. Officials are also warning of the risk of debris flows in burn areas of the San Bernardino mountains.

And major sports teams, well, they too are making some changes. The MLB has moved at Sunday games, hosted by the L.A. Dodgers, L.A. Angels and San Diego Padres to be split doubleheaders today. And Major League Soccer rescheduled tomorrow's matches to later dates. CNN's Natasha Chen is live for us in Los Angeles. Natasha, what more can you tell us about how people are preparing?

NATASHA CHEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Fred, this is a really unusual event for Southern Californians. They're asking a lot of questions of how actually should they prepare?

Now some of their preparation that they're used to for winter storms, for earthquakes, for wildfires, how to evacuate, some of that does translate to this situation. But there is a lot that's unknown for them, as was mentioned, this is the first ever tropical storm warning.

You talked about these events that have been changed. We've also seen some that have been canceled that were scheduled for tomorrow. We see Death Valley, Joshua Tree, and Mojave National Preserve, those national parks are all closed trying to discourage people from going out, especially into those heavier rain zones.

If you don't need to go out, officials are saying, then please stay home. Get those sandbags from your local fire stations. People need to be prepared especially if their area is prone to flooding if they've had mudslide and landslides. problems in the past.

And officials are also concerned about Catalina Island right off the coast, that's likely to get hit. They've got additional personnel and an extra rescue boat, positions there.

The sheriff in L.A. County says this is really about striking the right balance of preparedness.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROB LUNA, SHERIFF, LOS ANGELES COUNTY: I don't want people to panic, we got to find that sweet spot between overreacting. But we need to be prepared. We need to make sure. And as has been stated over and over, look at that forecast, the trajectory of the storm can go one way or another.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[12:15:13]

CHEN: And as Allison was saying, this storm seems to be heading this way to L.A. a little bit sooner. And so, people are definitely learning to track that radar here. It's not something they typically do in the middle of summer in Los Angeles, Fred.

WHITFIELD: Yes. And I wonder, Natasha, for the folks of Catalina Island, it was mentioned there. I mean, is there a contingency plan or is there a point in which evacuations would indeed occur?

CHEN: That's all being monitored at the moment. We actually reached out to Catalina Express, the private company that usually ferries people from the L.A. and Long Beach areas to Catalina Island.

They told us that they're monitoring the situation and also prepared to help evacuate if that becomes the case. Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right. Keep us posted. Natasha Chen, thank you.

All right, in this quick programming note, "THE WHOLE STORY", breaks down the details of the criminal indictment of Donald Trump in Georgia. "THE WHOLE STORY" with Anderson Cooper airs tomorrow at 8:00 p.m. right here on CNN.

All right. Coming up, search and rescue teams are scouring what's left Lahaina, after wildfires scorched the Hawaiian island. More than 1,000 people are still believed to be missing and the death toll is taking up.

Also, up next, a member of an L.A. County task force joining me from Maui, where he and his search dogs are assisting in the efforts.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:20:48]

WHITFIELD: New York City officials who are desperate to find more room to house asylum seekers, now, want access to the shuttered metropolitan correctional facility. A prison notorious for both its squalid conditions as well as its high-profile inmates. It's the same place sex offender Jeffrey Epstein hanged himself in 2019.

And this comes as the city continues to scramble for resources after receiving more than 100,000 migrants since last year.

CNN's Polo Sandoval is with us now. Polo, this is an extreme measure to house these asylum seekers.

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Fred. That is the facility commonly known as the MCC. Now, that is a potential site. That is on all caps, because we are so very far from getting to a point where the city may potentially actually use that space. I'll tell you why in just a second.

But first, is wouldn't be the first time as the city since earlier this summer has been using another facility that had been previously used to house inmates, now being used to house migrants.

Now, in terms of the MCC, we are still very far from that potential use here for a couple of reasons. I'll tell you why. For starters, the federal government still has to authorize the use. A spokesperson for the Federal Bureau of Prisons wouldn't actually go into detail with me in terms of whether or not those conversations are happening with the city. But did tell me that they still have not finalized any long-term plan for the MCC. And then, the city actually has to choose to use it if it becomes available.

I asked a city official whether or not that's even a possibility. And that's an official telling me at this point, it is not. But it is in a realm of 3,000 other locations that they've actually looked at to try to house asylum seekers. The big priority for city officials here in New York right now, Fred, is still calling on the White House to help expedite work authorizations for the over 100,000 asylum seekers, who arrived here in New York since last spring, is something that's easier said than done.

Here is Eric Adams, his most recent radio appearance on a local station just yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIC ADAMS (D), MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: Those 101,000, they're not allowed to work. Many of them could be here anywhere from a year and a half to two years without having the right to work. That is just unacceptable, and I think is anti-American.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANDOVAL: Again, that is a feat that's easier said than done in terms of what we can or cannot see from Washington.

Meanwhile, there is -- there is still this back and forth and continues between New York City and New York State just this week, filing of a letter on behalf of Governor Kathy Hochul, calling out the city according to her administration, saying that the city can be doing more to act in a more collaborative and more proactive and timely manner.

But for his part, Eric Adams defending the way they've handled this crisis that continues to grow worse by the day, Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right. Polo Sandoval in New York. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:27:51]

WHITFIELD: A fake Twitter account generated a firestorm of controversy beyond its 1,000s of online followers. Incendiary tweets, most of them ultra-liberal and hyper political, through millions of views, and painted Republicans with a very broad brush.

The face of the verified account belongs to a woman who, in reality, is a Trump voter, living in rural Florida, and knew nothing about the account.

CNN's Isabel Rosales tracked the real face on the fake Erica Marsh.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Erica Marsh.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Erica Marsh.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Erica.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Erica Marsh.

ISABEL ROSALES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Erica Marsh, quickly rose as a viral left-wing voice on social media. Her incendiary tweets, often ultra-liberal and politically charged, drew millions of views and the ire of Republicans.

Tweets like, "Do you agree that Drag Story Hour should be mandated for elementary school students?" And, "Why does it seem like most Republicans are pedophiles?"

The account had nearly 130,000 followers. Marsha's top tweet viewed more than 27 million times.

Twitter, which now goes by X, took down the account a few weeks ago. It was a fake, but the photos were not.

Now, CNN exclusively shares the real face that's on the notorious account.

ROSALES: Are you Erica Marsh?

COURTNEY BALLESTEROS, PHOTOS STOLEN FOR FAKE TWITTER ACCOUNT: No.

ROSALES: But that's your face.

BALLESTEROS: Seems to be.

ROSALES: Why are you talking to us?

BALLESTEROS: I want to tell the world that that's not me. My name is not Erica Marsh. I'm Courtney.

ROSALES (voice-over): Courtney Ballesteros, lives in a rural part of the Tampa Bay area in Florida. She showed CNN her original photos, nearly a decade old. She says they were stolen from her Facebook page.

BALLESTEROS: In my grandmother's front yard.

ROSALES (voice-over): By whoever, or whatever, is behind this account named Erica Marsh.

The photos on the account are from when Courtney was still a teenager. She is since gotten married and had children.

ROSALES: All right, Courtney, let me have you read Erica Marsh's probably most popular tweet. It got over 27 million views. And then, tell me what you think about it.

BALLESTEROS: Today's Supreme Court decision is a direct attack on black people. No black person will be able to succeed in a merit-based system.

[12:30:04]

ROSALES: And what do you think?

BALLESTEROS: I am speechless.

ROSALES (voice over): Speechless, because while this viral fake account shares Courtney's face, they do not share the same politics.

(on camera): Are you liberal?

BALLESTEROS: No, ma'am. No.

ROSALES: Are you a Republican?

BALLESTEROS: Yes, ma'am.

ROSALES: Can I ask you which way you voted in the last presidential election?

BALLESTEROS: Of course. I voted for Trump.

ROSALES: So, you sense the irony here, right?

BALLESTEROS: Yes.

ROSALES: Some people thought that this was an AI generated image.

BALLESTEROS: Correct. Yes. When I saw that, that was also made me laugh, I was like, they don't even think I'm real.

ROSALES (voice-over): It was her friends who first alerted her.

BALLESTEROS: Hey. Like, there's this Twitter account. Is it yours? They're posting crazy things.

ROSALES (voice-over): Over months, Marsh only grew more popular.

BALLESTEROS: I think there was even a elected representative that interacted with the account.

ROSALES (on camera): Yes, Matt Gaetz.

BALLESTEROS: Like with my face. So that is shocking.

ROSALES (voice-over): But Courtney only grew more concerned about its message. Twitter has a policy against impersonation. Once the Erica Marsh account was removed, Courtney felt relieved but not safe.

BALLESTEROS: I don't want to be out in public and someone noticed my picture that was on the account approach me, approach my family. Who knows what someone would do that didn't agree with what Erica Marsh was saying.

DARREN LINVILL, DISINFORMATION EXPERT, CLEMSON UNIVERSITY: Whoever's running this account knows what people like and knows how to get attention.

ROSALES (voice-over): Darren Linvill, a professor at Clemson University, studies disinformation and trolling.

(on camera): What is Erica Marsh? Is it a parody? Is it a troll? Is it a disinformation campaign? What is she?

LINVILL: Erica Marsh is a fake online influencer. She isn't a troll in the way that a lot of viewers may think of a troll.

ROSALES (voice-over): Linvill believes this was the work of a professional.

LINVILL: This is not an amateur. No. It'd be very hard for an amateur to get to well over 100,000 followers in such a short amount of time.

ROSALES (voice-over): And Courtney's pictures plucked on purpose.

LINVILL: She looks all American. She looks friendly. But ultimately, it's about influence. It's meant to engage with a very specific audience and to get people a little bit angry.

ROSALES (voice-over): Whether the goal of the account was to generate money or sow division, Linvill says the real owner of Erica Marsh is likely still operating on the platform.

(on camera): Is there any way to tell who's responsible for Erica Marsh or where they come from?

LINVILL: That's the million dollar question, isn't it?

BALLESTEROS: It's just fake, you know, it's fake. The whole thing was fake.

ROSALES (voice-over): Isabel Rosales, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: All right, as former President Donald Trump and his 19 associates now prepare to surrender in Georgia for charges connected to 2020 election interference, the rest of the GOP, well, they're debating on who should lead the party and why. Some are making their cases in Atlanta as part of the gathering, an event hosted by conservative radio show host Erick Erickson. And this morning, Chris Christie spoke and drew this distinction between other candidates.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have folks in this race who have called Vladimir Putin brilliant, a great leader. And just yesterday, Donald Trump called him the -- that he was the apple of Putin's eye. I have to tell you the truth. I don't want to be the apple of Vladimir Putin's eye. I don't.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: I'm joined now by Bill Nigut. He is the co-host of the AJC podcast "Politically Georgia," which is also a program on WABE. Bill, great to see you.

BILL NIGUT, CO-HOST, "POLITICALLY GEORGIA", WABE 90.1: Hi Fred. WHITFIELD: So these candidates this weekend are trying to make their cases to voters. Absent is the party frontrunner of the presidential race, Donald Trump, although he is going to be, you know, in this territory of Atlanta very soon for different reasons. How are these candidates trying to distinguish themselves, break away from Trump?

NIGUT: Well, we should start by saying the reason Trump is not there is that Erick Erickson chose not to invite him. And it wasn't with any malicious intention in mind. Yes. At the gathering, he simply said he thought it would be like Kabuki Theater. Trump would say, maybe I'll come, maybe I won't, and in the long run wouldn't show up. So he decided to cut to the chase.

Now, what Erick Erickson has also done is he's told this parade of presidential candidates he does not want to talk about Donald Trump. He wants to focus on the issues. Chris Christie, in the soundbite you just played, was one of the exceptions who went after Trump directly on the stage with Erickson. But they've been focusing for the most part on the issues of this, and that's different.

All we're hearing from many of us in the journalism profession and others is, what do you think about Trump? What do you think about Trump?

WHITFIELD: And so how are the candidates or how have they been adhering to that, you know, Chris Christie has done his own thing, but is the audience have they been receptive to candidates who are focusing on things other than Donald Trump?

[12:35:09]

NIGUT: Yes. They have been. He's got about 1,500 people there. This is a very popular event that Erick Erickson has done on a number of occasions now. One of the things that was interesting is, you know, Ron DeSantis appeared yesterday. DeSantis has really been falling in the poll. Suddenly, there are a lot of people who wonder if he has the makings of a real strong presidential candidate.

Yesterday, people saw a side of him that they weren't used to. A more casual, relaxed DeSantis that he hopes will be the beginning of his efforts to get out there and be more people friendly as he campaigns in Iowa and New Hampshire and the like.

WHITFIELD: So speaking of DeSantis, he actually had like a, you know, one-on-one, a meeting, a 30-minute discussion with Georgia Governor Kemp. Kemp has not endorsed anyone yet.

NIGUT: Yes.

WHITFIELD: Is this an indicator in any way of his leanings?

NIGUT: No. I don't think so. I mean, Kemp and DeSantis have a lot in common in terms of the policies they have supported in Florida and in Georgia. But I think Brian Kemp is in a position right now where he is so popular in the national party. He's become a strong national Republican figure. There's no advantage to him jumping and endorsing anyone at this stage in the race

WHITFIELD: And this now ahead of, you know, the former president, Donald Trump, being arraigned, you know, reportedly, sources telling CNN that he is going to show up at the Fulton County Jail either Thursday or Friday. We've heard from legal analysts who say and even the sheriff who says he is going to be treated or should be treated just like any other defendant. Donald Trump has been able to say, you know, yes, one more arraignment. This is only going to help with, you know, his donations, with his support. Is there still that feeling?

NIGUT: I think the sheriff has made it clear that he wants to have Trump fingerprinted and that a mugshot will be taken. Of course, all of that will take place in private. It's not as if we're going to have cameras in there while he's being booked. It'll be interesting somebody with an iPhone who works inside might want to do that. But this will all take place in private, so we're not likely to see that process play out for Donald Trump.

If it does happen, you've got to imagine, as boastful as Trump can be, as sure of himself as he can be, it's a very humbling process to go through. And you've got to wonder what they'd do to him.

WHITFIELD: Humiliating. I would say humiliating would be the word.

NIGUT: Yes.

WHITFIELD: And that is going to be something else. All right, well, we will see how the week plays out, how the rest of the weekend plays out. Bill Nigut, great to see you.

NIGUT: It's going to be an extraordinary week with all those 19 defendants, or at least most of them coming in and being booked.

WHITFIELD: That's right. It will be. All right, we'll be watching.

NIGUT: Thanks, Fred.

WHITFIELD: Good to see you.

All right, we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:42:10]

WHITFIELD: The death toll in Hawaii increased once again overnight after the apocalyptic wildfires that swept through Maui. Officials there confirm the Lahaina wildfire claimed at least 114 lives. Only 10 have been identified. More than 1,000 residents are still believed to be missing, with thousands more displaced.

Before rebuilding can begin, crews must finish their search through the scorched debris to locate and identify victims' remains. And that brings me to my next guest. Among those on a search for the missing is Ed Ruiz with the Search Dog Foundation. And he is a canine handler on California Task Force 2 and joins me now with his search partner, Harper. All right, Ed, great to see you. You're there on Maui. Tell us what you've seen.

ED RUIZ, CANINE HANDLER, CALIFORNIA TASK FORCE 2: It's difficult to explain what we see. I think what you guys seen on the news already, it's 10 times worse over here. It's just sad to see what these people had to experience around here.

WHITFIELD: Oh, indeed. And how is it similar? Or perhaps what are the ways in which it differs from the kind of search and rescue operations that you and Harper have been accustomed to? What adjustments have you had to make?

RUIZ: Well, Harper is a disaster dog. Usually we are training on collapsed buildings where there's rubble piles and everything like that. Over here, everything's down to ash, so she doesn't have to climb over stuff as much over here. And all these dogs over here are uncomfortable with this environment because they all practice on collapsed buildings. There's no way to train on something like this until an event, a devastating event like this occurs. So all the dogs are getting comfortable as the days go by.

WHITFIELD: So how does Harper tell you when she comes across remains?

RUIZ: She actually has an active alert, which means that once she senses remains, she'll start barking, and she won't leave that area until I reward her. And it's like a hide and seek game for these dogs. Like for Harper, like, it's a game for her. So all she wants to do is to play with that ball that I have for her, and she knows she won't get it until she finds what she's looking for, and in this case, human remain.

[12:45:01]

WHITFIELD: And then talk to me about the fatigue, because I understand in some cases, for some dogs, they can only do this at 15 minutes at a time because it is very fatiguing. Everyone has a different process. But how are you -- because this is such a colossal, you know, massive space of destruction, how -- what measures do you take so that Harper does not get fatigued or what are the signs that she is fatigued?

RUIZ: Well, as the days have been going by, we've been here, I think about five days already. I could tell that she's slowly getting fatigued. The first day, she was out there running around searching as quick as she could. But this heat and humidity, we don't get this in Southern California. So we can't train in that environment and get her accustomed to it. So it has taken a toll on her.

I try to now, in this stage, try to keep her searching for anywhere between 10 to 15 minutes, and then I'll put her back in the car with the AC, give her cold water and just let her rest for another 30 minutes because it's a large area to search here, and we've been going, the team that I'm assigned to right now, they are -- they all know how these dogs work, so they do care about these dogs.

So they know that we can't push them too much, and they're good about giving us breaks. And they allow us to take as long as we can. So the dogs are capable of going because at this point, this whole recovery effort to go just as fast as these dogs can work.

WHITFIELD: Yes. And they remain those toxins in the area so that, you know, just heightens the concerns for everybody, for you and for Harper. Ed Ruiz and harper, I'm so glad you're able to be with us. Thank you so much. Continue to do the great work that you're doing. I know so many are so appreciative of all that you are doing.

RUIZ: Thank you. Appreciate that support.

WHITFIELD: And be safe. And be safe. Thank you.

All right, coming up, how difficult will it be for Trump's legal team to get a fair jury in Georgia? We'll discuss with a jury consultant, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:51:54]

WHITFIELD: All right, sources tell CNN, former President Donald Trump is expected to turn himself into the Fulton County Jail by next Thursday or Friday. He and 18 co-defendants are charged with plotting to subvert the 2020 election results in Georgia. Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis has set August 25th, next Friday, as the deadline for them to surrender. With me now is Richard Gabriel. He is a jury consultant. So good to see you, Richard. So, in your view, what are some of the challenges of seating a jury in such a highly publicized case like this?

RICHARD GABRIEL, JURY CONSULTANT: Well, there's three main problems that I see. Typically, one is that obviously there's the politics involved. You cannot divorce a case like this from the politics because it has to do the RICO action that's being filed against, him has to do with him actually trying to overturn Georgia's elections. So obviously, the political aspirations or the political affiliations of jurors are going to be closely scrutinized. That's one issue that can be incredibly polarizing, as we've seen across the country.

Second issue has to do with the pretrial publicity. Obviously, there's been so much publicity about President Trump and all of his presidency, as well as various issues, as well as his efforts to overturn the election, that people's exposure to that pretrial publicity and his other cases also will be coming into focus. And last is really what I would call system credibility. There's been a lot of discussion lately.

There's been kind of a significant downturn in the public's confidence institutions in general, but also in the justice system. So the court is even going to have to discuss with jurors their ability to be fair and impartial and follow the law and the evidence in the case. So those are three main challenges that I see.

WHITFIELD: So given those main challenges you see, do you still believe a fair jury can be seated?

GABRIEL: I do. I do think that. It's interesting, there's something quite extraordinary that happens when a group of diverse citizens gets together and are charged with a significant role of deciding the fate of an individual defendant or a series of defendants in this particular case, sometimes the politics and all the noise kind of floats aside. That being said, it's going to take a lot of time. There could be thousands of jurors that could be questioned to even see whether they can possibly put aside feelings that they have.

But I think the effort can be done. I've seen it in a lot of the high profile cases I've participated in. Jurors can do it. They can be fair, they can be impartial. And there's something about the group dynamic that happens when jurors are put together and are charged with an important job.

WHITFIELD: High profile cases that you've been involved in, from O.J. Simpson to even Casey Anthony case. So then what questions could effective jurors expect to, you know, be asked here in this kind of case?

[12:55:07]

GABRIEL: Well, jury selection really is jury deselection. Each side is trying to identify jurors who are significantly predisposed against them. They're trying to find out. So the questions you're going to be asked is obviously, what are your opinions of President Trump? What are your opinions of the election in general because some -- there's a significant polling that suggests that still about 70 percent of Republicans feel that the election was fraudulent and that Joe Biden is an illegitimate president.

So obviously, the prosecutors are going to be looking for those types of jurors. The defense jurors are going to be looking for people who think that, boy, they feel they just have a terrible opinion of President Trump, either from just his four years in the White House or from a lot of other of the publicity that they've heard about him. And so just the fundamental question what do you think of President Trump? What do you think of the 2020 election? Those are going to be the significant questions. What have you heard? What are your opinions?

WHITFIELD: And then, Richard, real quick, do you think security is going to be an issue, meaning those prospective jurors are going to be worried about their own personal security given what has reportedly happened involving grand jurors and their names and addresses and the harassment that many of them have endured since being seated and rendering, helping to render this indictment.

GABRIEL: I think security is going to be a big issue. Just how many people can even sit for the length of time this trial is going to take is going to be a significant issue also. But everybody is got to think about not just their security, but also how their verdict will ultimately impact their friends, their family, and the community, because ultimately, those jurors have to come back to the group that will judge them as well as they're judging the case.

WHITFIELD: All right. Fascinating. Richard Gabriel, good to see you. Thank you so much. GABRIEL: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)