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Hurricane Hilary Barreling Towards the U.S.; Southern California Under Tropical Storm Warning; Evacuation Warning in Parts of San Bernardino County; Top Republican Candidates Take the Stage in Milwaukee; Interview with Former Governor and Republican Presidential Candidate Asa Hutchinson (R-AR); Trump Not Expected to Attend GOP Debate; Trump Faces Deadline to Surrender in Georgia; Interview with Retired Federal Judge J. Michael Luttigl; Interview with Harvard Law School Professor Laurence Tribe; Search Continue in Maui as Death Toll Rises; Legal Experts: Trump Is Disqualified From Presidency; Hawaii Death Toll Reaches 114 & 1,000-Plus Still Missing; New Cooperation Between U.S., Japan And South Korea; GOP To Hold 1st Presidential Debate On Wednesday; Rising GOP Challenger: Let Putin Keep Some Of Ukraine. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired August 19, 2023 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:00:00]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF DOMESTIC CORRESPONDENT: You are live in the "CNN Newsroom." I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.

We begin this hour with an historic hurricane barreling toward the U.S. Hilary is now a Category 3 hurricane with top winds of more than 100 miles per hour. This is new video of the storm pummeling Mexico as it inches closer to the U.S. The powerful system could bring a year's worth of rain in one day to parts of the southwest along with potentially catastrophic and life-threatening flooding.

Right now, parts of Southern California are under a tropical storm warning for the first time in history. Officials and residents there are preparing with sandbags and the California National Guard is standing by ready to help. A state emergency official tells CNN it's an all-hands-on deck situation. We've got a CNN team at this hour tracking Hilary. Meteorologist Derek Van Dam is closely following the storm's path and Natasha Chen has an inside look at storm preps in Los Angeles.

Derek, let's start with you at the CNN Weather Center. I can't believe we're talking about a hurricane preparations or tropical storm preparations in Los Angeles, but we're talking about a very unusual hurricane here. What can you tell us about Hilary, when can we expect to see it hit the U.S.?

DEREK VAN DAM, CNN METEOROLOGIST AND AMS CERTIFIED METEOROLOGIST: Look, Jim, I think what people need to recognize is that this storm is picking up forward speed very quickly. If you kind of tune in intermittently over the past 24 hours you may have thought, hey, this is more of a Sunday night into Monday time frame. Well, the fact is that the storm has sped up, and this is going to be a Sunday storm for Southern California and much of the southwestern U.S. as well. So, very important for people to understand that we are already seeing the impacts across the interior of Southern California. 115-mile-per-hour winds with the storm.

Here's the radar coming out of Southern California. And generally dry into the coastal areas. But look what's happening across the mountain ranges and into central portions of Southern California. This is San Bernardino County. There are mandatory evacuations for some of these locations. San Bernardino mountains are working as this almost like a wall.

So, you take, let's say, a soaked kind of a setup here and this is basically just pushing all of that available moisture against the mountain ranges here and just bringing out all the rainfall. So, listen, 27 million people under the threat of flooding today, specifically across the desert southwest. And these areas don't see this amount of rain in such a short period of time.

This is the forecast track from the National Hurricane Center. Sunday evening, look at that. A tropical storm in Southern California. You don't see that that often. Here is a look at that surge of moisture. The main threats here is certainly going to be that flash flooding and mudslide potential across the desert southwest. And then, the moisture moves inland. So, places from Vegas to Renom, all the way northward into Idaho, we're going to look for the flood threat as well.

But focusing in on Sunday into Monday morning, a level 4 of 4 of flash flooding from this weather prediction center. A very rare thing to see especially across the southwest. Some of these areas have never experienced this level of heightened flood threat. Jim.

ACOSTA: All right. Derek Van Dam, a lot to keep an eye on. We know you're going to stay on top of it. Thank you very much.

If Hilary hits Southern California as a tropical storm, it will be the first time that's happened in more than 80 years. The sheriff in San Bernardino County has issued an evacuation warning for several communities. Officials are preparing for life-threatening conditions and urging millions of residents to heed their warnings.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY WARD, DIRECTOR, CAL OES: Make no mistake, this is a very, very dangerous and significant storm.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: CNN's Natasha Chen is in Los Angeles for us. Natasha, I can't believe we're talking about this and talking about L.A. I mean, I just -- it's just so strange to think about this. And I hope, because it is so bizarre and unusual and historic, that people are going to take this seriously. These officials just wrapped up this news conference. What are they saying? NATASHA CHEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jim. I thought that when I moved from our southeast bureau to our L.A. bureau that I would stop talking about tropical storms, but here we are. And that's sort of the attitude that we're hearing from officials as well. These folks in Southern California have not seen a tropical storm warning before.

[16:05:00]

So, a lot of people have questions about what exactly they should be doing to prepare. So, that's what they were trying to hammer home. The sandbags, the staying at home unless you really have to be out. Be heeding road warnings, not driving out into the storm and driving past barricades. They're also talking to people about, you know, charging up all their devices and making sure they have a plan because there will be power outages, checking on elderly neighbors.

A lot of plans have already been changed. We are seeing baseball games that were supposed to be played tomorrow, three different teams, the home games have been moved to today. So, they're doing doubleheaders today. The Hollywood Bowl has announced that their show tomorrow is canceled. So, a lot of plans are shifting here, especially as people are watching that radar and that track shift as well, which Derek just explained.

The Department of Water Resources in California talked about how the flood operations state and federal, they're are all working together. And people may see dam operations, the spillways open up and release water tomorrow. That is part of normal procedure. Here's the director talking about how unique the situation is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KARLA NEMETH, DIRECTOR, CA DEPARTMENT OF WATER RESOURCES: We did have a decaying tropical Storm Kay last September that caused extensive damage, particularly in Santa Barbara County. This storm, Hurricane Hilary, is anticipated to be stronger than that. You would have to go back to 1939 since Southern California last saw a true tropical storm affect populations that dropped almost eight inches of rain on Mount Baldy in Los Angeles County.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHEN: Now, we did have a very wet winter here in California. So, some of the folks who are in flood-prone areas, they should expect to see some of that happening here again. So, some of the preparations that this region is used to for wildfires, earthquakes, floods, mudslides that applies here, but the officials did say, in this situation, what they're not used to is you can actually see where this thing is going. So, people can track the radar as opposed to an earthquake or a wildfire where sometimes the direction or the timing is unknown. So, what the officials are hammering home is there's no reason not to get prepared right now. Jim.

ACOSTA: And, Natasha, I mean, just talking to folks around town, are they taking it seriously? WALSH (on camera): I think that some folks are taking it seriously, asking questions about whether they should still hold events or go out and do the things they had planned on Sunday. There is a lot of nervousness because they have not seen this type of event locally before. And then others, perhaps, I just seen -- you know, wondering whether this is just going to be heavy rain. And so, we'll have to see how everyone reacts tomorrow.

ACOSTA: All right. Well, hopefully, people will heed the warnings. Can't be chill about this. I know it's Southern California, but please stay safe and listen to what the officials have to say. Natasha Chen, thank you very much.

As we've mentioned just a few moments ago, the hurricane is prompting to San Bernardino County, California sheriff's department to issue an evacuation warning for the following communities. Take a listen to this. The affected communities are Oak Glen, Forest Falls, Mountain Home Village, Angelus Oaks, I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly, and Northeast Yucaipa. That's according to the sheriff's department's Instagram account.

Again, not totally familiar with those particular parts of Southern California in that county. So, if I mispronounced that, please forgive me. But please, pay attention to those warnings. The San Bernardino County sheriff's department issuing evacuation warnings for several communities, and check that county's website, Instagram page for further information.

In the meantime, turning now to the presidential race. Just four days until the top Republican candidates take the stage in Milwaukee for the first primary debate in order to qualify. Candidates must have 40,000 donors with at least 200 different ones in 20 states and polling at 1 percent in national polls that meet RNC requirements.

Here's a breakdown of the GOP field, eight candidates have qualified. The front-runner, Donald Trump, the former president, is expected to skip the debate. As you can see in the lower left of your screen. Our next guest has met the polling threshold but has until Monday night, 9:00 Eastern, to find enough donors, and that is Former Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchinson. He joins us live now from Des Moine, Iowa where he's campaigning.

Governor, thanks so much for joining us. You now have roughly 53 hours, I think I have that right, to meet the RNC's donor requirement. Are we going to see you on that debate stage on Wednesday?

FMR. GOV. ASA HUTCHINSON (R-AR), REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Jim, absolutely, you're going to see me on that debate stage. You have to have 40,000 unique donors. We're up to 38,000. And so, we're almost there, and thousands have come in the last couple of days to asa2024.com and given us a dollar. People here at the Iowa State Fair have helped out. So, we're going to be there excited about telling the truth about Donald Trump, but also talking about the future of our country.

[16:10:00] ACOSTA: And I do want to get to that. But if you're not able to qualify for the debate, what do you do at that point? Do you reassess whether the campaign should continue? Does that, you know, impair your campaign in any way?

HUTCHINSON: Well, again, I'm going to be there. Obviously, if someone doesn't make the debate stage, they've got to evaluate where they are and where their campaign can go. But this is critically important. This debate stage, because Iowans, folks in New Hampshire are all looking there, the first time to really compare the candidates.

So, it's critical to be there and it's going to be a very good discussion, even if Donald Trump is not there, because we're going to have to give our views of January 6th and our views of Donald Trump's leadership. So, I think my voice is critically important and I will be there.

ACOSTA: And you've spoken out against the RNC requirement to support the eventual nominee. We've talked about it on this program. Are you going to sign that loyalty pledge? Maybe catch me up to speed here, maybe you already have. What's the latest on that?

HUTCHINSON: Well, they're not submitting to us until we meet the 40,000-threshold. But, yes, my intention is to sign that so I can be on the debate stage. And my view is that I'll support the nominee of the party. I don't believe that nominee is going to be Donald Trump.

ACOSTA: And it appears Trump, as you said, is not going to take part in the debate. What's your take on that? Why is he skipping the debate in your view?

HUTCHINSON: Well, at first, I would think that he made the decision he can't effectively campaign and deal with his four criminal cases at the same time, but it sounds like he's got a counter producing event going on. So, it looks to me like he's just saying, I'm more important than the debate, I'm more important than the party, I'm more important than presenting and defending my positions for the American people.

I think it's a mistake on his part. And whether he's there or not, the candidates are going to have to state their positions on what he's done, how we distinguish ourselves. So, he will be there in absentia, but he will not escape the evaluation of the candidates that are on the stage, including myself.

ACOSTA: And as you know, Governor, authorities in Fulton County, Georgia, where that fourth indictment was filed, they have suggested that the former president may have to submit himself to fingerprinting and potentially a mug shot later next week. We're hearing that that could occur on Thursday or Friday of next week. What is that going to say to the world if we see the former president getting a mug shot?

HUTCHINSON: Well, I don't think it's preferred. I don't think it's necessary. Whenever you look at the way the special counsels handled that, they've avoided that. So, it's unnecessary. I know they're trying to get -- treat everybody the same and the mug shots are not a fun thing to go through. So, I'd prefer not, but that's up to the sheriff and the local prosecutor there.

ACOSTA: Isn't that kind of letting him off the hook, though, if the other people who are indicted in that case surrender themselves and they have to get mug shots but Donald Trump doesn't?

HUTCHINSON: Sure, it does. Sure, it's a separate and in the same way that nobody else goes into court with Secret Service around them. We've never been through anything like this. And he needs to understand the impact that his decisions, which led to these indictments, are going to have on our body politic, on the election coming up, on the debate and on the discussion of the issues.

I talk to people in Iowa, they're asking me about inflation. They're asking about what I'm going to do on border security and fentanyl, and that's what we've got to focus on, and that's what he's doing is a great distraction from the serious issues in our country.

ACOSTA: I suspect the issue of Ukraine is going to come up during this debate. And this past week, I spoke with one of your opponents, Vivek Ramaswamy, who is rising in the polls. I asked him about his position, that he would allow Russian president, Vladimir Putin, to keep parts of Ukraine that have been captured thus far. Let's listen to that. I want to get your reaction on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VIVEK RAMASWAMY, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I would freeze the current lines of control and that would leave parts of the Donbas region with Russia. I would also further make a commitment NATO will not admit Ukraine to NATO. But there are even greater wins that I will --

ACOSTA: That sounds like a win for Putin.

RAMASWAMY: The top of the list -- well, our goal should not be for Putin to lose. Our goal should be for America to win.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Governor, what do you think of that? Should it be the policy of the U.S. for Putin to lose or what?

[16:15:00]

HUTCHINSON: Well, first of all, Vivek's policies that he articulate, allows Putin to win. He allows Russia to win. And, no, that's not in the national interest of the United States of America. That shows weakness. That rewards Russia for doing the invasion. They get what they want and keeps Ukraine out of NATO, but also gives them territory. It's just flat wrong.

This obviously will be discussed in the debate. Donald Trump had some comments on that as well. But, no, I could not disagree more with what Vivek is articulating.

ACOSTA: All right. Well, Governor Hutchison, thanks very much for your time. Good luck getting on that debate stage. Maybe we'll talk to you on the other side. Appreciate the time.

HUTCHINSON: All right. Thank you. Good to be with you.

ACOSTA: Thank you, Governor. We appreciate it.

A live look now at the Fulton County Jail in Atlanta. There it is right there. Donald Trump and his 18 co-defendants have until next Friday to turn themselves in there. What we're learning about the surrender plans coming up in just a moment.

And later, we're live in Maui where the death toll is rising and so is the level of frustration. You're live in the "CNN Newsroom."

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[16:20:00]

ACOSTA: The Fulton County Jail in Atlanta, you're looking at it right there, is about to become very well-known very quickly. Sources tell CNN that Donald Trump is expected to surrender there on Thursday or Friday to face charges of plotting to subvert the 2020 election results in Georgia.

He and 18 co-defendants have until Friday to turn themselves in to the sheriff to be processed, likely including fingerprinting and maybe even mug shots. Fulton County authorities say they are ready and that the jail is open 24/7. The sources tell CNN that negotiations over the terms of Trump's surrender are ongoing.

Meantime, several prominent legal scholars are now publicly making the case that, convicted or not, Trump may already be disqualified from holding office. In a new piece in "The Atlantic," constitutional scholars Laurence Tribe and former judge, Michael Luttig, writes this, "The former president's efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election, and the resulting attack on the U.S. Capitol, place him squarely within the ambit of the disqualification clause, and he is therefore ineligible to serve as president ever again.

And Professor Laurence Tribe and Judge J. Michael Luttig join me to talk about it. Gentlemen, it's a real honor to have you both on at the same time. Thanks so much for doing this.

Your argument, just to explain this to our viewers, essentially comes down to these two sentences in the constitution's 14th Amendment, no person shall be a senator or representative in Congress, or elector of president and vice president, who, having previously taken an oath as an officer of the United States to support the constitution of the United States shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same or given aid or comfort to the enemies there of.

I'm proud of myself, first of all, for getting through all of that without messing that up. But let me go to both of you on this, gentlemen. How is this going to work? Because Donald Trump is not going to say, you got me. I'm disqualified. Judge, I'll let you go first and then the professor. J. MICHAEL LUTTIG, RETIRED FEDERAL JUDGE: Jim, thank you for having us on this afternoon. Professor Tribe is the most celebrated constitutional mind in America, and deservedly so, and he has been that for the past four decades. Professor Tribe has been studying the constitution and even the disqualification clause of the 14th amendment his entire illustrious career.

I first began to think seriously about the 14th Amendment's disqualification clause only two years ago in January of 2021. But I quickly came to the same conclusion that Professor Tribe had come to many years before that. And then, in the two years, between January 6th and today, Professor Tribe and I have been discussing the disqualification clause and the possible disqualification of the former president privately between ourselves.

What has brought our article forth is some magnificent scholarship by Professors Baude and Paulsen that is forthcoming in a law review from the University of Pennsylvania. Their monumentally important contribution that they have made is that they have demonstrated that what might have been is not, which is to say this, Section 3 of the 14th Amendment means exactly what it plainly and clearly says, specifically as you just read.

ACOSTA: Yes.

LUTTIG: Any person who previously has taken the oath of office to support and defend the constitution of the United States and who then engages in insurrection or rebellion against the United States and the constitution of the United States shall not thereafter hold, in this instance, the office of the presidency of the United States.

[16:25:00]

That language in the constitution, Jim, simply could not be any clearer. It is unmistakable in its application to the former president. The only thing that was not known until Professors Baude and Paulsen did their scholarly work is whether this was the actual meaning under the original understanding of the constitution, and the professors confirmed and demonstrated that, indeed, it was.

ACOSTA: And so, Professor Tribe, an honor to have you on as well. Does that mean that Trump is essentially is right now automatically disqualified, that he shouldn't be allowed on ballots and so on?

PROF. LAURENCE TRIBE, HARVARD LAW SCHOOL: Jim, what it means -- and it's a great honor to be on with the distinguish and justly celebrated Judge Luttig. What it means is that secretaries of state or other officials who are responsible for deciding who is qualified and who is not will have to determine whether despite his obvious attempt to overturn the 2020 election and engage an insurrection, whether despite that, somehow Trump gets to run.

The secretaries of state around the country are going to go both ways on that. The red ones may go one way and the blue another, although I would hope that partisan politics wouldn't always determine it. But whichever way they go, they'll be challenged in court, and that will end up in the Supreme Court. And what it will have to decide is what this language means. It's pretty obvious what it says.

In fact, when it was written, Abraham Lincoln was no longer president. We had a president who didn't believe in the 14th Amendment, Andrew Jackson. They weren't going to rely on him and his Justice Department to decide who should be convicted of insurrection. That's beside the point. So, it's important to see what happens in all of these 91 pending charges of crime against the former president. But whatever happens in those cases, this disqualification, like the disqualification of someone who was not a natural born citizen or the disqualification of someone who doesn't meet the age limits, has got to be enforced according to its terms.

For a very long time Americans didn't take this seriously. But now, the scholars have begun to look at it. And as the judge says, I've looked at it for a long time, it's impossible to disregard. We have a former president who has probably said that he would terminate the constitution. That was his language. He would terminate it if necessary to hold on to power. How can he say that and take the oath to uphold the constitution?

This is going to end up in the Supreme Court. It's a monumental issue, the most important constitutional issue of our day, and people have got to get used to the fact that whatever happens in these very important trials of the president, under the constitution's own language, he's simply not eligible to the president again.

Now, of course, when you ask, is he going to say, you got me? The answer is, no, he never says, you got me. He won't say that even if he's convicted of all the crimes available, but it's not up to him. Wake up, Mr. Trump.

ACOSTA: Yes.

TRIBE: It's not up to you. It is up to the Supreme Court of the United States reviewing what the secretaries of state determine and they take an oath to uphold the constitution and the constitution tells them that an insurrectionist who tried to overturn the country's constitution cannot be entrusted with protecting it in the future. So, stay tuned. This is going to be a saga that lasts between now and the election.

ACOSTA: No question about it. And, Judge Luttig, I mean, one of the -- I mean, several questions arise in listening to both of you. I mean, without a conviction how can we determine if -- how can it be determined that Trump's actions actually meet this standard? He was not convicted in the Senate when he was impeached in all of this. What would you say to folks who might say, are you trying to wave the constitutional magic wand here?

LUTTIG: Jim, what Professor Tribe and I have concluded as did professors Baude and Paulsen is that Section 3 is what we call self- executing, which means that the qualification automatically arises from the condition precedent, in this instance, in the insurrection or rebellion against the constitution that occurred on January 6, 2021.

[16:30:00] The corollary of that is that Congress need not act to determine whether the former president engage the in an insurrection or a rebellion or aided and comforted such.

Neither must a court find that fact and neither must a jury of the former president's peers concluded that he engaged in an insurrection, a rebellion, or that he aided and comforted either of those in his actions on January 6th and antecedent to January 6th.

Then, and this is what's very important about what we've concluded and wrote, every officer of the United States and every officer of the 50 states who is charged with qualifying candidates for the ballot in 2024 is obligated under the Constitution himself or herself as of this moment to determine whether or not Donald Trump qualifies for the ballot.

Now, as Professor Tribe just discussed, whether that election official does or does not qualify the former president for the ballot, that decision will in turn be challenged by any number of people, including voters who will have the standing to challenge that decision by the federal or state election officials.

Which is to say, in the end, Jim, that this matter will immediately go into the federal court system and it will have to be decided by the Supreme Court before the 2024 election.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: Yes, I mean, I think that seems like a certainty.

And, Professor Tribe, that leads me to this question, how do you think this will fly with the conservatives on the Supreme Court?

Because forgive my amateurish take on all of this, one often assumes the conservatives on the court tend to be more Originalist in their thinking when it comes to the Constitution.

They may be tempted, I suppose, to align themselves with the, I guess, the thought process you're laying out today. It's in the Constitution, it says it very clearly right there.

LAURENCE TRIBE, PROFESSOR, HARVARD LAW SCHOOL: And its original meaning is clear. So they have a real problem.

They may personally want to see Donald Trump president again, though I don't know, but whatever they want personally, if they're going to stick by their guns and interpret the Constitution according to its clear meaning and, in this case, its original meaning as well, they really are not going to have much choice.

But it seems to me that, whatever they do, their feet have to be held to the fire. If they decide that this wasn't an insurrection, that's going to be hard to square with the clear meaning of that word in the Constitution.

If they decide that Donald Trump was simply, you know, an innocent bystander, that he didn't give aid and comfort to it, that's going to be hard to explain.

Whatever they do, it seems to me it's important that the nation express its clear view and that we not think that everything depends on whether he is found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt on any of the of the 91 charges against him.

Impeachment is different. Criminal prosecution is a different matter.

And the Constitution's designed carefully and structured to make sure, regardless of who controls the Justice Department or who serves on juries, that those people who are charged with determining eligibility for the candidacy of the presidency of the United States have to apply the Constitution themselves.

Secretaries of state may set up their own procedures for making a determination. I expect them to do so. But it's not something that we can simply pass off to the criminal justice system or to the impeachment system.

This is a simpler matter. It has to be taken separately and seriously.

ACOSTA: All right, Professor Laurence Tribe, retired Judge Michael Luttig, a very stimulating conversation. A lot to chew on in reading this article. We'll chew on it some more this weekend.

[16:35:02]

Thanks so much for your time. Really appreciate it. Really great honor to have you both on at the same time. Thanks so much.

TRIBE: Thank you.

LUTTIG: Thank you, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right, hope to do it again soon.

All right. In the meantime, there is mounting frustration in Hawaii. Residents are speaking out about the response to Maui's wildfires as the death toll grows and more than 1,000 people are still missing. We'll go live to Maui next.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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ACOSTA: It's been 11 days since those major wildfires broke out on the island of Maui. Today, the heart-wrenching task of sifting through the scorched disaster continues. The main job, searching for remains.

The death toll rose overnight with at least 114 people now confirmed dead. Hawaii's governor says 60 percent of the disaster zone has now been searched.

More than 1,000 people are still missing and thousands more are displaced as their homes and everything they own are now gone.

[16:40:06}

CNN chief climate correspondent, Bill Weir, joins us now from Maui, where this disaster began unfolding there.

Bill, I cannot believe -- you and I have talked about the important topic of climate change so many times. Then I know sometimes you end up getting deployed to places like Maui, which has just been on the receiving end of the devastating effects of what's been taking place with our planet.

What can you tell us about the search efforts there? And what have you been able to get your arms around in terms of the scope of this problem?

BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: It's unlike any disaster I've covered, Jim, over many years. This is unlike any search and recovery that a lot of these veterans have seen.

They're searching house by house. And normally, if it was a hurricane, you'd know which room you were searching. Here the entire house is just turned to ash.

And it's as if three and a half square miles of a vibrant community is cremated at the same time. So the enormity of the forensic search is just -- it's hard to wrap your head around.

We'll give you a glimpse of that next hour. We hung out with some of the cadaver dog teams.

But the emotional piece of this, I don't think we can fully comprehend.

We're in paradise, one of the most beautiful places in the world, filled with some of the most generous, warm, hospitable aloha spirited people you'd want to meet. But they're going through insufferable pain right now that most of us won't comprehend.

ACOSTA: I've been to Lahaina myself. It's a beautiful, beautiful part of Maui. And it's depressing what's taken place.

What are you hearing about the response from residents? That has been a really big part of this story. It sounds as though a lot of people were let down.

And I guess I can't get over the fact that a thousand people might still be missing. Is it possible the death toll is going to get that high?

WEIR: Exactly.

ACOSTA: That sounds unimaginable.

WEIR: It does, doesn't it? And the idea that some families might never get confirmation is crushing to think about that.

The local response to the official response has been just frustration, and complete confusion over -- we're a short way from the bases in Oahu. There could have been helicopter sorties flying all week. We haven't seen any of that.

The initial response was all community led. The leaders in Lahaina actually held a press conference yesterday to call out the governor and make three demands, that they be included in the discussions over how to re-open, that they need time to grieve, and how to rebuild. That is vital.

And that Hawaii has a Sunshine Law when it comes to transparency about these decisions. They're demanding Governor Green abide by this.

And I talked to Archie Kalepa, a leader, surfer, lifeguard, and pioneered jet ski rescues on these islands.

And I asked him about, have you even had contact with the people in charge? Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARCHIE KALEPA, LEADER, SURFER & LIFEGUARD WHO PIONEERED JET SKI RESCUES: We do need dialogue for sure. We need dialogue. And I think that's the first step through this process --

WEIR: Yes.

KALEPA: -- is being able to sit down and have, first off, is -- it's a process. And people want to vent. I'm sure that, you know, they want to vent as well.

But let's get through that, get to the point where we can begin to make good decisions moving forward that gets community by

WEIR: Yes.

KALEPA: And the only way we can do that is by, first of all, be open and honest with each other and making sure that that is understood, and that's carried from the beginning to the end.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEIR: You also understand, you have to understand the historical context.

Since Captain Cook, back in the 1700s, tried to kidnap the king of Hawaii and was stabbed to death in the surf, and then since the generations after that, the U.S. Marines unlawfully staged a coup to take this kingdom of Hawaii.

So a lot of hurt feelings here. A lot of trust has been eroded by the response.

And a lot of people watching the rebuilding effort to see if these people are included -- Jim?

ACOSTA: All right, Bill Weir, great reporting as always. Thanks so much for the time. Can't wait to get you back on to talk about this important topic. Just keeps coming up over and over again.

Folks, you've got to listen to Bill's reporting on all of this. It's essential.

Bill Weir, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

For more information about how you can help Hawaii wildfire victims, go to CNN.com/impact or text "Hawaii" to 707070 to donate. They're in a lot of trouble. If you can help, please do that.

[16:44:43]

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: The U.S., Japan, and South Korea are coming together to face emerging threats in Asia.

President Biden met yesterday with the leaders of Japan and South Korea at Camp David and announced new military exercises, intel sharing agreements, and a new annual summit.

It comes amid new concerns about China and North Korea.

And here's what the president said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're doubling down on information sharing, including on the DPRK's missile launches and cyber activities, strengthening our ballistic missile defense cooperation.

And critically, critically, we've all committed to swiftly consult with each other in response to threats to any one of our countries from whatever source it occurs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: And CNN global affairs analyst and senior managing editor of the "Military Times," Kimberly Dozier, joins us now.

Kimberly, great to see you.

What's the message coming out of this summit? Was there a cohesive, unifying message coming out of this summit?

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Absolutely. You don't hold a summit in a place like Camp David, such a historic spot, and the first time that the three of these men have met, just the three together, not on the sidelines of something like a NATO summit, is that you know everyone is in accord.

[16:50:07] This is about the unification of three countries against common threats, things like the rise of China economically and militarily, and the increasing instability, chaos coming out of North Korea, and the threat that a Russian-North Korea-China triumvirate presents.

It's not a formal treaty alliance between the three, but it is the basis for one.

It's a way to have a hotline established in case of future crises. And it's also a way to put down a structure in place that could be hard for any one of their successors if any one of them are replaced to take a part in future.

ACOSTA: And, Kim, the president also mentioned that the three countries see eye to eye on the war in Ukraine, which is also significant. What kind of impact does that have?

DOZIER: Well, they have already given, all of them, large amounts of aid, Of course, the U.S., billions, in weapons aid. Japan giving humanitarian aid.

And South Korea facilitating by giving some of its munitions that Ukraine so badly needs to combat what they call shell hunger on the battlefield, not having enough ammunition to just keep firing day after day after day in this grinding war.

But it means that, as the U.S. faces headwinds, as Biden faces headwinds from his own party and from this GOP campaign that he's facing where increasingly members of the GOP are talking about withdrawing support from Ukraine or at least lowering the amount of support, this is three countries standing together.

Saying, this matters, and we're going to use our economic might to continue to support that fight.

ACOSTA: Yes, and it's no small thing to see the leaders of Japan and South Korea getting together like this with the American president at Camp David.

Kim Dozier, always great to talk to you. Thank you so much. Really appreciate it.

All right, the clock is ticking for the Republicans who are on the outside looking in. So far, eight candidates have qualified for the first Republican primary debate on Wednesday.

Frontrunner Donald Trump is expected to skip that debate. The others have until Monday night to meet polling and donor thresholds.

Joining me now is Jeffery Sonnenfeld. He's the senior associate dean for executive programs at Yale University.

Professor, Jeff, great to see you as always.

Let me ask you about this, because Republicans have become increasingly vocal about -- we were just talking about this with Kim Dozier a few moments ago -- the war in Ukraine.

And Republicans have become increasingly vocal against open-ended U.S. funding for the war in Ukraine. How much of a topic is that going to be on Wednesday?

We were talking with Asa Hutchinson about this at the top of the hour, and he plans on suspending spending some time on it.

JEFFERY SONNENFELD, SENIOR ASSOCIATE DEAN FOR EXECUTIVE PROGRAMS, YALE UNIVERSITY: Jim, you have been covering this from different angles. I was glued to the show, as I always am. And it's an honor to rejoin you.

As a quick aside, I want to congratulate you guys on your nimbleness in bringing on Judge Michael Luttig, a leading Originalist thinker from the bench, originally, and Laurence Tribe, from the other side of the aisle, Professor Tribe from Harvard.

That these guys have never been unified on any cause before and this patriotic message they've given you is perhaps something depending on what the court does with it, as important as after the U.S. Constitution, the Declaration of Independence.

Probably their essay is more important than any single Federalist paper. But that is an aside.

But the whole show is riveting. And you have been getting to these issues of Ukraine's support.

And I think that there's a good deal of support, of course, in the Republican Party.

Representative Michael Turner, McCaul, the head of the House Foreign Relations Committee, a Republican, and Turner -- Representative Turner is head of the Intelligence Committee, and a Republican, and their support is solid, as is most of the Republican Party.

But, yes, the debates -- it will come up, and the candidates are distributed around their support.

ACOSTA: Yes, and I'm going to ask you about Luttig and Tribe in a moment.

But I spoke with Vivek Ramaswamy, a presidential candidate that's been rising in the presidential polls, just the other night.

And I asked him about his position that he would allow the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, to keep parts of Ukraine that have been captured so far.

And let's play some of that conversation. I want to get your response to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VIVEK RAMASWAMY, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Our engagement in Ukraine is further driving Russia into China's arms. So, my foreign policy centers on weakening that alliance. That --

(CROSSTALK)

ACOSTA: So, you would let Putin have parts of Ukraine?

RAMASWAMY: -- secure peace.

ACOSTA: So you would let Putin --

(CROSSTALK)

[17:54:59]

RAMASWAMY: I would freeze the current lines. I would freeze the current lines of control, and that would leave parts of the Donbass region with Russia.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: You know, Jeff, he also mentioned he would go to Moscow, meet with Putin in Moscow. He would block Ukraine from joining NATO.

As I told him the other night, it sounds like a win for Putin.

You were mentioning inside the Republican Party, yes, there are some who support what the U.S. is doing in terms of supporting Ukraine.

But it sounds like what Vivek Ramaswamy and others in the GOP, and some of them will be on the stage, they want to take the party in -- take the country in a completely different direction when it comes to Ukraine.

SONNENFELD: Well, you know, we have nine of the announced candidates of the announced 12 -- not all nine of the supporters of Ukraine will be on the stage.

But certainly, Chris Christie is a very strong supporter and was just in Bucha this current month in Ukraine, and he's very solid supporter.

As is Mike Pence, Vice President Pence, who referred to President Trump as a Neville Chamberlain sort, the appeasement to Hitler.

If you apply that to Vivek Ramaswamy, he's even more entitled to be accused of that. He's entitled to his freedom of speech.

But we've always had flamboyant people, sadly, in times of distress, that go toward supporting totalitarians and Fascist propaganda, which is what Ramaswamy, in his endless desire for publicity, goes for.

He'll do very well in the debate. He's a smart, entertaining guy who comes out with outrageous positions to get attention.

He clearly is part of the Rudy Giuliani, RFK Jr, Alan Dershowitz forget-me-not school of public discourse. So he says outrageous things. To think he'd be this naive, to think somehow he'd get an agreement

with Russia to sever ties with China by taking an appeasement-like position and giving up this hard-fought land in the Donbass where he's done nothing is just ludicrous. And it flies in the face of all the U.S. interests.

You know, it's -- Governor DeSantis calls it a territorial dispute, and he's retreated and vacillated up and back. Ramaswamy is going down a harsher and harsher against Ukraine. And it's an unsupported position. He should go over there and visit.

ACOSTA: And as for Judge Luttig and Professor Tribe, I'm all out of time but just very quickly, your sense as to how that might be received at the Supreme Court? Because it sounds like that's where this is going to end up.

SONNENFELD: That's where it's going to end up. There's a misnomer in public opinion and in the media that there are only three qualifications to be president of the United States.

That you have to be over 35 years of age, and these are the standards that people look at, and a U.S.-born citizen. That's not it. You also have to support the Constitution of the United States if you've taken an oath.

President Trump -- as you heard the professor and the judge say, President Trump has said that he would terminate the Constitution. He said that.

He's interfered with the elections, of course, and he's given aid and comfort to insurrectionists. That triggers this clause.

It's a very low standard of evidence. There's not beyond a shadow of a doubt. This is civil. This is just preponderance of the evidence or probable cause. It doesn't take much to trigger this.

None of these things are ever black and white. I know President Trump very well, personally.

Someday, if you have the time, I can share the email -- well, the email is from his office, but he was dictating about how he was going to go after Ted Cruz on his citizenship if it was a serious threat in his Canadian heritage. And we know that he went after President Obama similarly.

So, these kinds of issues get disputed. Eligibility should go to the court. Let the court decide who's eligible to run.

ACOSTA: All right, Jeff Sonnenfeld, great to have you on as always. Thanks so much. We'll have you back. Appreciate it.

SONNENFELD: Thank you.

ACOSTA: And any minute, we will get an update on Hurricane Hilary from the National Hurricane Center. Right now, the storm is barreling towards southern California. Stay with us. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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