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California Prepares For Hurricane Hillary; Interview With Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee (D-TX) About Trump's Surrender In Georgia; Six- Year-Old Among Seven Killed In Russian Attack; Hilary Could Be First California Tropical Storm In 84 Years; President Biden And First Lady Will Visit Maui On Monday; Legal Experts, Constitution Bars Trump From Office. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired August 19, 2023 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:09]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington. Good evening.

A historic hurricane is barreling toward the southwestern U.S. You heard that right. Hilary is now a category 2 storm with powerful winds of more than 100 miles per hour. Parts of Southern California are under a tropical storm warning for the first time in the state's history. Officials are expecting widespread power outages and potentially catastrophic and life-threatening flooding.

People on Catalina Island, just off the coast near L.A., are evacuating to Long Beach as officials urge visitors and residents to leave. And in San Bernardino County, the sheriff's department has issued an evacuation warning for parts of that area.

Let's go straight to meteorologist Derek Van Dam in the CNN Weather Center.

Derek, what can you tell us about Hilary right now? Picking up speed, slowing down? What's the latest?

DEREK VAN DAM, AMS CERTIFIED METEOROLOGIST: Picking up speed, and that is important because if you're just tuning in, maybe perhaps intermittently from the West Coast or into Southern California, you may have thought, hey, maybe this is a Sunday night into Monday morning timeframe. Listen, right now is your last few moments to do your final preparations to secure your property, that type of thing, because this is more of a Sunday during the day timeframe, all right?

That's when we anticipate the greatest impacts across Southern California. It will last through Monday morning but the greatest impact is certainly throughout the day on Sunday. 110-mile-per-hour winds. There is a lot that can be inferred from this satellite image and that is that we're starting to get a lot of dry air on the west side, so it's helping weaken the storm and the trajectory, starting to move quickly at 17 miles per hour out of the north northwest.

So what this will do is it means that we will see an earlier landfall. Also the track has shifted a little bit further east compared to this time yesterday. So maybe perhaps a central or northern Baja Peninsula landfall before moving into Southern California. So this is going to lessen the wind impacts along the coastal areas, between San Diego and Los Angeles.

Let me explain why that's important because you can actually see the winds coming out of a south easterly direction. This would be running basically parallel to the mountain ranges for some of these areas. And what will happen here is, as we advance this in time, as the winds change directions, it's literally going to extract all the available water out of the atmosphere. And it is going to produce a significant amount of heavy rain. So the flash flood threat cannot be overstated enough.

It is just an incredible amount of rain. We have already seen precipitation values here exceeding two inches in some locations and we'll get significantly more rainfall from the San Bernardino County, specifically, over the eastern sections of that county have quite a flash flood threat. And here's the reason why. As we zoom into this part of Southern California, you'll notice that the mountains here, the transverse range into San Bernardino, these mountains here will actually work to almost like a wall.

If you're pushing a sponge directly across a wall, it is going to take out all that water that's in the sponge and it's going to deposit it as rainfall. So that rain has to come down the valleys and into the communities below. These are some of the locations that have the mandatory evacuations. Mountain Home Village into Forest Falls, the Oak Glen Region. So we want to monitor that area very closely because rain is already ongoing across the eastern sections of San Bernardino County.

But look. It's not just the southwest. It's all the way into Idaho, portions of Oregon, Nevada, into Utah. We have flash flood watches for over 25 million Americans. And so we still have another 36 hours of the heaviest of rain to come across this area -- Jim.

ACOSTA: Yes, Derek. I mean, it's jarring to see you standing in front of a hurricane map of a storm heading towards California. Heading towards the southwestern U.S. We've done this so many times here at CNN and typically we're looking at the storm heading towards places on the Gulf Coast. Flat areas with no elevation. Biloxi, Mobile, Pensacola, and so on.

And you make the perfect point. If this is heading to the southwest, if it's heading to mountainous areas in California, those flash flood warnings, please take them very seriously because they can happen very quickly and just have deadly consequences.

Derek, thank you very much. Appreciate that.

Joining us now is Daniel DeSelms. He is the emergency operations manager for Palm Springs.

Daniel, it's been more than 80 years since a storm like this hit Southern California. Is Palm Springs ready for a hurricane or a tropical storm to come in? Do those plans even exist, emergency management plans even exist for your community? We're just not used to seeing storms like this in that part of the country.

DANIEL DESELMS, PALM SPRINGS EMERGENCY OPERATIONS MANAGER: Yes. Exactly. We're not used to tropical weather here. But we are familiar with flash flooding. We're a desert community so when we get significant amounts of rain, we're used to that flooding. So we actually did have something in our emergency operations plan. Not anything for a tropical storm, a tropical cyclone.

[19:05:07]

We're as ready as we can be for three to seven inches of rain. We've been preparing since Thursday. We've issued out approximately 50,000 sandbags to residents and, you know, several tons of sand just today.

ACOSTA: Yes, and, Daniel, are folks there taking this seriously? What are you hearing when you talk to folks? Because I know from talking to my friends, and even some relatives out in California, you know, people tend to be quite chill about things. But this is no time for that.

DESELMS: You know, Jim, there is a mix. There are a lot of people that are taking it very seriously, but being a tourist town, we do have some people that are walking around downtown Palm Springs like there is not a storm coming. For the most part, our residents and some of our visitors are taking it very seriously. It's been very positive environment. You know, neighbors have been helping neighbors. Really wonderful people stepping up to help each other.

ACOSTA: And what about desert areas? I mean, people are prepared for this kind of thing?

DESELMS: All the cities in the Coachella Valley have been encouraging their residents to get ready for the past couple of days. And like I said, we just had some really heavy rains back in January. So we're as ready as we can be. We're familiar with rain. Just, we don't know quite how much is coming and we're as prepared as we can be.

ACOSTA: All right. Daniel DeSelms, best of luck to you. Thanks so much for your time. We appreciate it.

DESELMS: Thank you.

ACOSTA: Please stay safe.

And now to our other big story tonight, we are on the cusp of a highly consequential week for the nation but most notably for Donald Trump. The former president and his 18 co-defendants are facing a Friday deadline to surrender in Fulton County, Georgia. They're accused there of conspiring to subvert the 2020 election results in that state. Sources tell CNN Trump is expected to surrender on either Thursday or Friday.

The Fulton County sheriff says all 19 defendants will undergo the normal processing including mug shots and fingerprinting. And joining me now to talk about this and other aspects of the Trump cases is Democratic Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee of Texas. Congresswoman, thanks very much for spending a part of your weekend

with us. Let me ask you this. This whole notion that Trump is going to be mug shotted, fingerprinted, and so on, what is that going to say to the world? What kind of message is that going to send to the world if we see that unfold? And it sounds like we are going to see it unfold in a few days from now.

REP. SHEILA JACKSON LEE (D-TX): Well, Jim, thank you for having me. And I think what I would say on a Saturday afternoon, I wish both of us were not here discussing this topic because it is a former president of the United States who is now suffering or now experiencing indictments practically all over the nation from New York to Washington to Georgia. What the world will see is something that they have never seen before in current history of an American president.

American presidents are held in high esteem. We may disagree with them politically. They run as Republicans and Democrats but the office itself has been held in the highest of esteem. We now have an individual who has been indicted in New York for charges of rape and sexual issues if you will against a woman, or convicted if you will in a civil case -- not convicted but held guilty in a civil case, found to be liable. And we have cases that is still pending in New York and Washington and now in Georgia.

This is a state case. And no federal law or protection that the president needs, and he does have his protection is going to -- I assume -- stop him from going through the normal process that any criminal defendant will go through in the state of Georgia. But I will say, I am saddened to be here discussing this because what it does to the presidency of the United States, and frankly, as someone who was physically in the chamber on January 6th, 2021, saw the fear, saw the guns, heard the gunshot, saw the banging and screaming on the doors to get into the chamber.

I am more stunned that that day did happen and that there couldn't be another respectful way that the former president could have expressed his opposition or his questions about the election. There have been questions about the elections since the time I was elected in the late 1990s. But it was handled in a way that followed the process of this government under the Constitution. He did not.

ACOSTA: And Congresswoman, let me ask you this. Trump is shrugging off warnings and continues to mock and insult the judges in his cases.

[19:10:06]

It's worth noting that a Texas woman is charged with threatening to kill the federal judge overseeing Trump's election case in Washington, D.C. I know you're aware of that. Court documents show the same woman threatened to kill you, Congresswoman. What was your reaction to that? What do you know about what took place there?

JACKSON LEE: Well, it's obviously chilling. We are public servants. I have a great respect for the three branches of government. The legislature, the executive, and the judiciary. We've always felt special in this country because the judiciary has been an independent judiciary for the federal government which Judge Chutkan is a part of, appointed for life. And then we do that so they cannot be subject to (INAUDIBLE) commentary.

I've never seen this as a senior member in the House Judiciary Committee who has been involved in impeachments of judges. I have never seen this kind of outside attack. The former president called her biased and unfair, and gave the inference that she would not be handling his case of four counts of conspiracy under the special counsel fairly. And what does that do? Whether someone is sitting on their couch drinking or however they might be motivated, or others might be motivated, they've been given a signal that she is wrong and she is not right.

I wish for her the best security, the safest way of moving around so that she can do her job, and she has to do her job without comment and she has indicated to the lawyers of Mr. Trump that he is going to be limited in receiving information or information that he might be able to comment on. And that's appropriate.

As it relates to those of us in public office, I would simply say it's chilling for your family. It's chilling for your family. But I thank law enforcement who has really paid attention to this. And even though this individual may have certain issues, we don't know who else is thinking about it. The temperature needs to be brought down and the former president needs to be actively engaged in stopping the hysteria, and egging people on, provoking them to do things that are against the Constitution and the order of this nation. Law and order has to prevail not only for us but for them.

ACOSTA: Well, and which brings me to this question as to what can be done about the former president because it seems as though the judges are going to be very reluctant to toss him into jail as punishment for overstepping and crossing the line and issuing veiled threats and sometimes in your face threats. What should be done about this? Can anything be done about this? Or does the whole country just have to go along with this and folks like you have to be occasionally be subjected to this kind of think when you're lumped into threats against judges and that sort of thing?

JACKSON LEE: Jim, isn't that an interesting question? And isn't that a question that none of us expected to be answering in 2023, in the 21st century, when we've been a democracy now for certainly 200 years plus? And we've been a democracy that the world has admired. Now we have a situation where our very laws restrain us. There's the First Amendment. He has First Amendment rights.

As a lawyer, in law school we're always taught that you cannot cry fire in a crowded theater. We have fire right now. We have people who are very tense, we have people who are loyal without question to his movement and his words. We have a dubious situation where we have a president who is attacking presidents, meaning President Biden, who is attacking every judge that has his case before them.

Here's what I would say. I asked the question over and over again. The Republican Party, his colleagues, need to be able to assess whether they are patriots and they are citizens of the United States with allegiance to the Constitution, or whether or not they have a single allegiance to this individual?

Cities have a right to be safe, states have a right to be safe, the people in them have a right to be safe. And if this provocation continues, judges that are sworn to oath to preside over trials fairly, and I imagine they all do -- I may disagree with them but I imagine they all do, then it is important for the Republican Party to be as keenly respectful for the three branches of government as I am. And they should be the ones to quell, to quash his behavior, to silence him. He's a defendant in some and others are civil matters. And so it is important for them to speak up and I'm waiting for them to do so.

[19:15:05]

Otherwise, I think it is appropriate that the judge be fair, be appropriate as she is, and she will have to handle the case where his lawyers will be limited in what they can publicly comment on and I would imagine it should be as well anything that provides a suggestion that she might be attacked in her duties, or anyone else might be attacked. And that's what I think is important. Where is the voice of my friends in the Republican Party? Where are they? Where's the leadership of the United States House of Representatives and the Senate? Where are they?

ACOSTA: All right, Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee of Texas, thank you very much for your time. We really appreciate it.

JACKSON LEE: Jim, good to be with you. Thank you for having me.

ACOSTA: And you as well. Thank you.

In the meantime, the FBI is looking for a missing member of the Proud Boys just days before he was due to be sentenced over the January 6th insurrection. Christopher Worrell was convicted of seven charges related to his actions that day. He was under house arrest in Florida but the U.S. attorney's office now says he's nowhere to be found. The FBI has put out a wanted poster. Worrell's attorneys have thus far declined to comment.

Still ahead, more than 1,000 people missing after the Maui wildfires. What to expect when President Biden arrives there on Monday. Plus a devastating attack from Russia in Ukraine. A 6-year-old girl among the dead killed in a missile strike. We'll show her face to you in just a few moments.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:20:47]

ACOSTA: Ukrainian officials say at least seven people have been killed and dozens injured in a Russian missile strike on the northeastern city of Chernihiv. The attack hit a university and a theater. The city is close to the Russian border but a long way from the frontlines. Officials say a 6-year-old girl is among the dead. There she is right there. Ukraine's Defense Ministry tweeted a photo of her. Official say Sofia would have started her first year in school in just a few days.

Just a precious face, and now she's gone.

CNN military analyst and retired Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton joins us now.

Colonel, I mean, this underlines, underscores, magnifies what Putin is doing. What the Russians are doing. They're targeting civilians because that's what it looks like here. 6-year-old girl gone. And there are so many cases like this.

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Absolutely.

ACOSTA: Time and again.

LEIGHTON: You multiple these cases by really thousands and tens of thousands. And every time something like this happens, it should be clear to everybody who is watching this war that this is a war of annihilation. The Russians want to annihilate as much of the Ukrainian population as they possibly can than to go after people like Sofia, young girls like Sofia. That is showing us exactly what this war is all about from the Russian perspective. And it is all about eliminating Ukraine as a nation.

ACOSTA: And I don't know if we can show Sofia again, but I mean just to talk about this point one more time. The Russians seem to be taking this tactic, this approach, that if they can just break the backs of the Ukrainians and continue to annihilate civilians in this fashion, that the Ukrainians will eventually just give up and they'll say that's it, no more.

But what the Russians have not been able to figure out is that this -- I mean, you correct me if I'm wrong. Puts steel in their spine.

LEIGHTON: It does.

ACOSTA: Every time.

LEIGHTON: Well, every time you look at this and you look at the way aerial warfare has developed throughout the years, you see what was thought about in World War II, in the run-up to World War II. People thought, philosophers of air power thought that they could break the backs of civilian populations by bombing them into oblivion. The only thing that really worked in that way was the atomic bomb in that -- in a very brutal way.

But this is something that is an absolute failure on the part of the Russians because it only resolves the Ukrainians. They only want to fight more when things like this happened. And it is a big mistake by the Russians, on the part of the Russians to do this.

ACOSTA: Yes. Just to switch gears, some officials have told CNN that they worry that Ukraine is stretching itself too thin with the focus on Crimea. What do you think of that?

LEIGHTON: I think it's a mistake to think of it in those terms. I think it's really important for Ukraine to be able to attack Crimean targets. Crimea is part of Ukraine.

ACOSTA: They want it back.

LEIGHTON: They want it back. They need it back. And the targets that they're attacking are legitimate military targets. In order to achieve a military goal, a military objective, you have to go after that objective. You have to be able to attack the forces that are protecting that objective and you have to be able to execute operations against those objectives, and that is precisely what the Ukrainians are doing.

Now one can question the balance of effort in each of these areas. But the fact of the matter is the Ukrainians are doing exactly what they need to do in order to achieve those goals and to in essence, soften up the target for further advances on their part.

ACOSTA: And the Ukrainian pilots are starting to train on the F-16 fighter jets this month. It will be a while before those are in the air. But what could that do? You know, we're talking about missile strikes taking out civilians, and little girls like Sofia, and a lot of worries about the counteroffensive that the Ukrainians are undertaking. Does the air power shift the balance a little bit?

LEIGHTON: It can.

ACOSTA: It change things.

LEIGHTON: It might not protect directly. The F-16s specifically might not protect Chernihiv and towns like Chernihiv, and people like Sofia in the immediate term. But what it can do is it can set the stage for further advances by the Ukrainians. And that's what is needed. The Ukrainians need to push the Russians back. They need to move things forward. And the F-16 can help on the battlefield. It can help attack targets that are more distant.

[19:25:02]

And it can also allow the Ukrainians to set the stage for further advances on the ground and that's why the F-16s are important.

ACOSTA: And it's going to be fascinating when this gets started because we're going to be able to see all of this. There's going to be footage. We'll have you back and talk about it again.

Colonel Leighton, thank you very much.

LEIGHTON: You bet, Jim.

ACOSTA: Appreciate it. OK. Coming up next, we're live in Southern California as people prepare for the first tropical storm to hit the state in more than 80 years.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: This just in to CNN. President Biden has been briefed on California's preparations as Hurricane Hilary churns toward the state. A storm like this hasn't hit the state in more than 80 years. The National Guard is standing by and an emergency official tells CNN it's an all-hands-on-deck situation.

Let's check in with CNN's Natasha Chen in Los Angeles for us.

[19:29:59]

ACOSTA: Natasha, what's it like out there right now? Is it starting to pick up?

NATASHA CHEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right now in Los Angeles and Hollywood where we're standing, it's still calm before the storm, but we did hear from officials in San Diego just a little while ago, telling people that through that region, people should expect the most intense to happen -- intense weather to happen Sunday afternoon, getting the strong rains followed by those heavy winds, especially in the mountainous areas east of the metropolitan area, where we're already seeing in the inland desert areas, a lot of closures, a lot of evacuation warnings like in San Bernardino County.

And a lot of officials throughout the area have been talking about how they are trying to proactively warn people, especially flying overhead to the outdoor areas where there are encampments of unhoused people trying to get them indoors, and to also let residents know that they really shouldn't be out unless they absolutely have to be.

Here is a one of the officials talking about what to expect for a region that doesn't really see tropical storms.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS HESLER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, SAN DIEGO OES: Normally, we're used to small pockets that kind of bounce around, that's not the case. It is already pouring rain out into the desert and east of us. So, it will come and it will have the impact that we projected.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHEN: And we are also hearing now from Uber, who told me that they are partnering with the state of California to offer rides up to $40.00 for people who are trying to evacuate, but who perhaps don't have transportation options.

We're also seeing a lot of people throughout the area take precautions trying to get sandbags from their local fire stations. In fact, the Orange County Fire Authority, saying that there's such demand that they had to remind people not to block driveways and entrances with their cars.

So it does seem that people are taking heed to these warnings and preparing for this event that really, they have not seen before even though Californians are very used to having to deal with wildfires, earthquakes, and the winter weather.

So those who have dealt with flood prone areas should expect some of the same this time around, but as you heard in that soundbite just now, this is going to be a slightly different heavier rain event and people should be very careful out on those roads -- Jim.

ACOSTA: And Natasha, we just got some new video into CNN that shows authorities in Los Angeles warning people to take cover. People who are living in tents, on the streets, that they need to be careful because this hurricane is coming. Let's play a little bit of that video.

CHEN: Yes.

[VIDEO CLIP PLAYS]

ACOSTA: Yes, these are some of the storm preparations taking place in Southern California. Right now, you're watching some video authorities taking flight in helicopters, warning people over loud speakers if they are living in tents on the streets, that sort of thing, they need to take shelter because this storm actually could be very dangerous for them.

CHEN: Absolutely. And there was actually a question at the San Diego press conference, because a lot of entities have been doing the same thing, of people asking about those who are currently refusing shelter, and so there's concern for them, so that work is ongoing.

We did hear that there were agencies starting to do that as early as yesterday.

ACOSTA: All right, Natasha Chen, stay safe out there. Thanks for the update. Really appreciate it.

In the meantime, we do have an update on Jimmy Carter's health from his grandson. Jimmy Carter's grandson says: "It's clear we're in the final chapter."

The 98-year-old former president has been in hospice care since February and his wife, Rosalynn has dementia. Josh Carter says there's always somebody at the house to keep his grandparents company and that the two are still holding hands, a very touching anecdote there.

Jimmy and Rosalynn Carter have been married 77 years. CNN reached out to the Carter Center for comment, but we have not yet gotten a response, but an update on the Carter family from their grandson.

On Monday, President Biden heads to Hawaii to see the devastation on Maui firsthand. What we're learning about the White House response to the wildfires and criticism the administration was caught off guard.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [19:38:45]

ACOSTA: It is 11 days now since those catastrophic wildfires broke out on the island of Maui. Today, the heart wrenching task of sifting through the scorched disaster continues. The main job searching for remains, at least 114 are now confirmed dead.

Hawaii's governor says 60 percent of the disaster zone has now been searched. More than 1,000 people are still missing and thousands more displaced. Their homes and everything they own now gone.

On Monday, the President and the First Lady Jill will head to Maui to see the fire devastation firsthand and meet with local and state leaders and also survivors.

CNN's Kayla Tausche joins me now.

Kayla, tell us more about this new reporting and Biden's plans when he arrives in Maui.

KAYLA TAUSCHE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, we know that the White House is still working with Maui County officials to figure out the final details of the president's trip on Monday, and whether he'll be serving that damage by land or by air.

But one thing is for certain, and that is that President Biden who often finds himself taking on this role as consoler-in-chief will be meeting directly, one-on-one with survivors from these hard-hit communities.

This afternoon, FEMA administrator, Deanne Criswell saying this about the president's visit: "I know that his ability to be able to talk to those survivors and hear their stories and stand with them is one of the things that provides great reassurance, but also brings a lot of hope into the community."

[18:40:09]

But Jim, they're going to need more than hope, they need manpower and they need money for this recovery effort.

FEMA has told Congress that its disaster relief fund would go negative by September without new funding. But as for manpower, federal personnel on island are now topping 1,000.

FEMA provided an update on that breakdown just earlier today saying more than 600 from the Defense Department and 140 from the Coast Guard are helping with search and recovery efforts.

A hundred from the Army Corps of Engineer are helping to restore infrastructure, 85 personnel from Health and Human Services are helping to identify remains of victims.

Now, FEMA has declined to update those tallies for victims, for the number of those who are unaccounted for currently deferring instead to local officials and saying those numbers remain very dynamic and very fluid, so to rely on local sources and not on FEMA data there.

But Jim, the big question for Washington remains how or whether they can prevent these extreme weather events from happening or to blunt their impact in the future. We know that a senior White House official briefed President Biden the day that the Hawaii storm hit, but that official telling CNN they knew there would be high winds, but they didn't know that wildfires would follow -- Jim.

ACOSTA: All right, Kayla Tausche, thank you very much.

There are new questions about Donald Trump's eligibility to become president. It is based on a constitutional amendment in the Civil War era.

We'll explain. That story is next on CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:46:04]

ACOSTA: Despite now facing 91 criminal charges, Donald Trump remains firmly at the top of the Republican primary field, but according to a growing group of legal experts, just a few phrases in the US Constitution could have grave consequences for Trump's third presidential bid.

Section 3 of the 14th Amendment of the Constitution reads in part: "No person shall hold public office who, having previously taken an oath as an officer of the US shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof."

Earlier on this program, I spoke with renowned constitutional scholars, Laurence Tribe, and retired federal judge, Michael Luttig who assured me, this matter is destined for the Supreme Court. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

J. MICHAEL LUTTIG, RETIRED FEDERAL APPEALS COURT JUDGE: That language in the Constitution, Jim, simply could not be any clearer. It is unmistakable in its application to the former president.

LAURENCE TRIBE, PROFESSOR, HARVARD LAW SCHOOL: What it means is that Secretaries of State or other officials who are responsible for deciding who is qualified and who is not, will have to determine whether, despite his obvious attempt to overturn the 2020 election and engage in insurrection, whether despite that, somehow Trump gets to run.

This is going to end up in the Supreme Court. It's a monumental issue, the most important constitutional issue of our day. And people have got to get used to the fact that whatever happens in these very important trials of the president, under the Constitution's own language, he is simply not eligible to be president again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Let's discuss with filmmaker, Alex Holder. He had access to Trump and his inner circle in 2020, while making the documentary, "Unprecedented."

Alex, great to see again.

You had a lot of time with the former president during the waning days of his presidency, How do you think he would react to what might be yet another court case, this time about whether he's even eligible to be president after what took place on January 6?

ALEX HOLDER, FILMMAKER: I think in the same way that he's currently dealing with all of this. I mean, you know, essentially, these days now, each week, we're getting another indictment. And then now I think there's going to be weekly development in terms of those actually -- those cases taking place.

I mean, Trump has consistently always doubled down on his positions. He has always said that it's other people's fault. He's right and everyone else is wrong.

So I think we're just going to see more of that, and then more of him trying to undermine and really just really destroy essentially the fabric of democracy in the United States.

ACOSTA: And you were subpoenaed to testify before the grand jury in Georgia, as I recall, because of your time interviewing Trump in those critical days after the 2020 election. Let's play a clip of him talking about the results in Georgia from that December. This was -- and we should note to our viewers, this is a full month before January 6, and listen to how the gears were turning in Trump's head.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They should open it up, verify the signatures. When you do, you'll see that all of those people that signed didn't have the right to vote. There were forgeries and other things.

And all we want is that and it is simple, or a special session, let their legislature make the decision because they were already largely on our side, because they see what happened in Georgia.

But you have to this hard-headed two people that don't want to do it. I think they're -- they don't want to be proven wrong. It's almost like they know they're going to be proven wrong if you do a signature count, so they don't want to be proven wrong, because it'll look like they ran a bad election and actually, they'd be heroes, but we'll see how it turns out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Yes, Alex, I mean, during that time, he just seems completely obsessed with all of these various mechanisms that are running through his mind in terms of how we can undo the election results. [19:50:04]

HOLDER: Absolutely, and in fact seeing that clip now, now that we know what was going on, due to the release of the indictment, the January 6th, and also the Georgia indictment. We actually know what was taking place on that day when I was interviewing him.

And also, this is the president of the United States in the White House. I mean, the man with a nuclear football was standing behind me while that was taking place, and there he is, literally trying to undermine the very tenants of democracy. I mean, it was absolutely extraordinary.

And on that day, we now know that that was when the Georgia court case was dismissed, where I think it was when he signed it, he was told not to sign this particular case, and he did. So it's all actually part of these cases that are ongoing right now.

And I think seeing it in the context of what we now know, it makes it even more troubling that he was trying to say these things.

I mean, you know, we need to convene a special session because these people have -- in the legislature were on his side. I mean, it's absolutely remarkable.

ACOSTA: Yes. I mean, what did you pick up in terms of his state of mind during that period?

HOLDER: I mean, you know, to be honest, unhinged, terrifying. I mean, he is a very unusual man. I mean, you spent a lot of time with him as well. I mean, he has one singular ideology, which is Donald Trump, right? I mean, nothing else matters.

And what I noticed as well was that all the people -- you actually notice in that clip, he said, looks sort of sideways when he was saying some of the controversial things he was saying. And so he's looking at one of his assistants, but they're all terrified of him.

So you know, there is this really strange dynamic. It wasn't a respect towards the president, it was sheer fear towards him.

So, it was just a really unusual situation and then seeing him again in Mar-a-Lago and in Bedminster, he just is a very, very dangerous person that needs constant adoration from all the people around him.

ACOSTA: Well, that is chilling the way you described it just there, Alex.

As this Georgia case unfolds, I'm sure we're going to have you back to talk about this further, but Alex Holder, great to talk to you as always. Thanks, and again, that material always comes in handy really appreciate your time.

HOLDER: Cheers, Jim. Thank you.

ACOSTA: All right, good to talk to you. We'll be right back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:56:43]

ACOSTA: Just minutes from now, we are bringing you the CNN Original Series "Giuliani: What Happened to America's Mayor?" Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: New York has five organized crime families and they have been permitted to grow and grow and grow and grow.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When Rudy took over the office and got involved in this case, he was very enthusiastic about it, very engaging the anxious to get the case going.

GIULIANI: My great grandfather when he was an immigrant in Brooklyn, and the black hand at that time, wanted him to pay protection money to them.

When people say there is no mafia and there is these organizations don't exist, I mean, I know from my history that there is such a thing, and I know what it does and what it can do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Ken Frydman joins us now, the former aide to Rudy Giuliani.

KEN FRYDMAN, FORMER AIDE TO RUDY GIULIANI: Frydman.

ACOSTA: Ken Frydman joins us now. I knew, I was going to get that -- I know I've talked to you before. Ken, forgive me? And you served as a consulting producer on this series.

Ken, the documentary does an amazing job of examining how Rudy Giuliani of 9/11, we all remember that, became the Rudy Giuliani of January 6. And I mean, I think the question is fitting. What happened to America's mayor?

FRYDMAN: Well, you know, I've spent four years trying to get to the heart of that question and my educated theories are many -- greed, access to power, need to maintain relevance, all of the above. Perhaps, you know, an alcohol problem. But it is a combination of things that made him what he is today.

And I have trouble reconciling the man that I worked for as you know, as mayor and on his campaign with the man he has become today. It is very hard.

But I hope people can get some answers out of our documentary.

ACOSTA: Yes, and Ken, I mean, the latest story about, you know, how he has been asking Trump to help him pay his legal bills and it sounds like he is in dire straits financially.

I mean, what just a total collapse of a human being we're witnessing here, it seems.

FRYDMAN: Yes, that's true. It's absolutely true.

Well, see, he had a very expensive divorce. He has very expensive legal bills and expenses, and no one is hiring him to be a lawyer. As you know, his law licenses have been suspended and are now in jeopardy.

So how do you make a living making $300.00 cameos? It's just -- it's not enough.

ACOSTA: Yes, and I mean, what ultimately do you think will be Giuliani's fate here? Is he the kind of person who would flip on Trump?

FRYDMAN: I don't think anyone goes to jail for someone else except maybe Michael Cohen and Allen Weisselberg, but you know, Trump probably made it worth their while to do those short prison sentences.

Rudy Giuliani will not go to jail for Donald Trump, but he will be in court for the rest of his life, as will Trump.

ACOSTA: No question about it.

All right, well, Ken Frydman, great to talk to you as always. Thank you so much. Really appreciate it.

And don't miss the CNN Original Series "Giuliani: What Happened to America's Mayor?" -- it is next on CNN with back-to-back episodes.

Thanks very much for joining me this evening.

Reporting from Washington, I'm Jim Acosta. I'll see you again tomorrow night at five o'clock Eastern.

Have a good night, everybody.

[20:00:21]