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CNN International: Trump Free on Bond After Felony Arrest in Georgia; CNN Investigates Final Moments of Prigozhin Flight; U.S. Evaluating Possible Causes of Prigozhin Plane Crash. Aired 4:30-5a ET

Aired August 25, 2023 - 04:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:30:00]

MAX FOSTER, CNN ANCHOR: Let's bring in Thomas Gift. He's the director of the Centre on U.S. Politics at the University College of London. And he is joining us live this hour from Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Thanks for joining us, Thomas. We want to bring up that mug shot again because it's interesting looking at it, isn't it, and the fact that he's actually using it as part of his campaign I thought was pretty interesting. We were under the impression that he would resist having a mug shot taken but he is using it to his advantage now.

THOMAS GIFT, CENTRE ON U.S. POLITICS, UNIVERSITY COLLEGE OF LONDON: Well good morning, Max and good morning, Bianca. It's great to be with you. You know, this mug shot is certainly going to go down as one of the most iconic images I think of the Trump years and it will mean different things for each side. But from a political perspective, I think this is a real gift for Trump. It's hard to deny. It's basically the perfect visual metaphor for the same story that Trump's been telling over and over, that he is the victim of a partisan vendetta. And I think that he's going to spin this and he's going to get cute with it -- which he already is posting it on social media, as you suggest, and embracing it.

Trump's team discussed what they wanted the photo to look like. He's scowling. So it's all curated I think to some extent. And the photo, it's going to be shared and re-shared especially among right-wing networks. To say nothing to the fact that this, you know, campaign can make all sorts of paraphernalia around it. That is a massive wind fall for the Trump war chest. So absolutely, he's definitely using this to his advantage.

NOBILO: Thomas, I apologize for how broad this question is, but we so frequently talk about polarization in American politics. Obviously the higher the stakes get the more the situation with the former president escalates. Surely the deeper that polarization becomes. Because for Democrats, this is considered I think embarrassing that former president is going through this legal process but perhaps a relief that the legal system is doing its job. For Republicans, they often see these charges as completely false. You know, what impact is this having on the fabric of society in the states?

GIFT: Well, Bianca, I think, you know, this going to get worse before it gets better. And its basically corruption clashing with the law and the hyperpolarization of American politics as you are suggesting. And it is kind of remarkable, I think to some degree, how routine this has all become. You know, nothing about these primaries or Trump's court cases are typical. So I think it is unclear how the standard rules apply and what this actually means for the fabric of American democracy.

We're kind of in this bizarre situation that Trump is winning the GOP primaries by infinity points. He's also facing these four indictments. He's running a campaign essentially outside of a courtroom. And all of his rivals look like they're either gunning for second place or their candidacies are on life support. Plus, it's only August.

I think the one thing that we can say about Trump, is that his legal troubles right now are greater than his political troubles as reflected by the fact that his base continues to support him. And because he perceives that, maybe his best chance to obtain immunity or to avoid conviction is to be in the White House in a couple years. I think that that means his political and his legal strategies all morph into one and they get subsumed by the political essentially. So I expect him to continue to double down and to the extent that he does, it has again a sort of reinforcing effect on polarization.

FOSTER: Does it undermine sort of the establishment that he's attacking for most people, do you think, when he says all these charges are made up? He's talking about multiple courts, multiple jurisdictions undermining the whole legal system, isn't he?

GIFT: Well I think absolutely. You know, and that's been a big problem of the Trump administration generally. Which is just general advocacy for lawlessness. You know, to a large extent, you know, these indictments have become not a feature of Trump's campaign but they are his campaign. You know, his pitch to Republican voters is essentially I'm the inevitable nominee and I'm the inevitable nominee because you can't abandon me when Democrats are weaponizing the judicial system against us.

So Trump is using it to his advantage. And it's almost this paradox where criminal charges are his get out of jail free card politically. And he is betting that these donations and the spikes in poll numbers, continue to keep coming in.

You know, Trump right now -- space right now generally when he's just outside of the courtroom. You know, he's talking about the deep state, witch hunt, overzealous prosecutors, Trump hating judges. So indictment number four I think feeds into that playbook. But to the extent that it really does takes direct aim at American institutions, I think it is a big problem.

FOSTER: OK, Thomas Gift, University College London, thank you very much indeed for joining us with your analysis.

We're also looking at how investors are reacting around the world. Looking for direction on U.S. interest rates from Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell. Who is set to speak today in Wyoming. Wall Street hoping to recover from a down day on Thursday. And so far, looking positive, with major indices up very slightly in terms of futures. The markets have closed for the day across the Asia Pacific region.

They were pretty negative, actually the Nikkei in Japan was down more than 2 percent even the Hong Kong and Shanghai shares were down around 1 percent. Still very early in the day for markets across Europe. And they have a mixed picture. Only Swiss shares down slightly.

NOBILO: Mortgage rates in the U.S. have hit their heist level in 20 years. According to Freddie Mac, the 30-year fixed rate jumped to 7.23 percent last week. The group's chief economist says rates will likely stay where they are or could go even higher in the short term. Just a year ago the 30-year fixed rate was 5.55 percent.

FOSTER: We like our fast-food news. And fast-food giant Subway has been -- well, they've got a new owner basically.

[04:35:00]

The private equity firm Roark Capital is buying the restaurant chain for around $9.6 billion according to the "Wall Street journal."

NOBILO: Roark already owns Arby's, Buffalo Wild Wings and Sonic restaurants, among others. Subway reports an increase in sales in its stores in recent months. They bring in about $.5 billion per location each year.

And still ahead, the apparent death of former Putin ally Yevgeny Prigozhin is raising a number of questions. And not just who might be behind it, but also how it happened. They both remain a mystery. CNN investigates the plane crash next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: We're getting more reaction from inside Russia about the apparent death of Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin. The leader of Chechnya praised the late mercenary boss but said Prigozhin had recently lost sight of the full picture.

NOBILO: The remarks come after Russian President Vladimir Putin addressed Wednesday's fatal plane crash for the first time. He said Prigozhin, quote, made serious mistakes. Prigozhin and his Wagner mercenary group staged an aborted mutiny against Russia's military leaders two months ago.

And to discuss, CNN's Katie Polglase joins us now. Katie, you were saying to me, quite rightly, that in terms of investigating what happened here in this crash, right now it's more of a question of elimination rather than discovering for certain what unfolded.

KATIE POLGLASE, CNN INVESTIGATIVE PRODUCER: Absolutely, Bianca. So what we do know for certain is that there were ten on board, all of them killed. Now it seemed reported it may be Yevgeny Prigozhin as you are saying, but Russia says it's investigating. They're still removing bodies from the scene and examining. And the fundamental question is, why did it happen? This plane crash doesn't just happen normally.

And aviation experts been speaking to, say planes don't just fall out of the sky. There is a reason. Now one of these experts is Professor Robert Schmucker. He is a global leading expert in this field. He also investigating MH17 crash back in 2014.

[04:40:00]

He said, based on the videos he's seen, it looks like the plane exploded in the air rather than the damage being upon impact. But clearly a lot of work still to be done.

And so, in the meantime our open-source team here at CNN has been looking through the videos and we've been looking to see what we can say so far about this crash. So have a watch.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

POLGLASE (voice-over): Falling from the sky, the plane reported to be carrying the Wagner leader Yevgeny Prigozhin. Coming two months after he launched a mutiny against Russia's leader Vladimir Putin, he was widely seen as a man on borrowed time.

As footage started to emerge on social media of the crash, CNN's open- source team began piecing together what happened. The aircraft associated with Prigozhin is RA-02795. It makes frequent trips between Moscow and St. Petersburg.

CNN geolocated the main crash site to here. And you can see the same tail number visible amid the debris. The plane had left Moscow at 5:55 p.m. local time. Twelve minutes later, the location is no longer detectable. But public flight tracking site Flight Radar 24 still receives information on its altitude.

POLGLASE: The last minute of the recorded flight is key. You can see here the flight's altitude is erratic. It's going higher and lower before it eventually plummets. Now, aviation experts told us this is highly unusual, and it suggests those on board were trying to stabilize the plane after something happened to it. In other words, the destruction was not big enough to obliterate everyone and everything instantly.

POLGLASE (voice-over): Expert opinion is split on what exactly happened, likely an explosion, perhaps a bomb on board or a missile hitting it, or even something else.

Whatever it was, was clearly powerful as the plane is visibly falling without a wing.

The tail ends up over here, 2.6 kilometers away from where the rest of the debris lands. Videos show fires at the crash site. Some are graphic. Human remains strewn amid the debris. Since then, Russian authorities have taken the bodies away for examination and begun an investigation. But many have already made up their minds as to who they think was behind the Wagner aircraft's violent end.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

POLGLASE (on camera): Now clearly there needs to be an on the ground investigation into what happened and that will require the cooperation of not only Russia but also Brazil who were the makers of this plane and investigators will need access to the black box. All of this might be quite difficult to obtain. The U.S. is saying there's currently no indication that it was a missile hitting the plane, but clearly, they are exploring other options, potentially a bomb on board the plane as well.

And in terms of whether Prigozhin was on this plane, well the U.S. said yesterday they think it is likely. Today U.K. authorities also coming out saying that they think it is highly likely he was on board this plane. And as to whether who was behind it, well, that is still unknown, but President Biden had clear words yesterday. He said there is not much that happens in Russia that Putin is not behind. And I think that really speaks to the international sentiment around this incident.

NOBILO: Katie Polglase, thank you so much for that brilliant report and for elucidating what remains very murky situation indeed.

FOSTER: William Taylor former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine and vice president for Russia and Europe at U.S. Institute of Peace is here to shed some light on some of that language that Katie was describing there, likely, unlikely. We don't really know what's happened. But what are your sources within government in the West saying about this and what they think happened?

WILLIAM TAYLOR, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: Well, Max, it seems pretty clear that this was an assassination ordered by President Putin and executed by his security services one way or the other. That seems to be the consensus at least the operating assumption which all signs point to.

NOBILO: Ambassador, it still seems ironically mercenary to ask a question in these terms even though the person supposedly killed was a mercenary leader himself and responsible for a lot of violence. But who benefits most strategically from this assassination?

TAYLOR: So President Putin undoubtedly benefits domestically within Russia. He has silenced any dissent. So no one is going to now raise their voice as Prigozhin had. However, you asked the right question, Bianca, that is the bigger picture is in the international community, and the eyes of the world. We now know more. It's confirmed that President Putin -- we know he's an indicted war criminal. We now know that he's a blatant assassin willing to take extreme measures. This is not a model that any other nation would want to emulate.

FOSTER: When he addressed the nation last night, he was offering his condolences to the families of the victims. Just try and explain that for us.

[04:45:02]

TAYLOR: President Putin is going to want to try to -- everyone knows, Max, that -- everyone, all Russians assume that President Putin has done what he was ready to do. They knew he was ready to take revenge on Prigozhin for turning against him two months ago in this mutiny. Putin was humiliated. Putin was humiliated by that. And he was shown

to be an erratic leader. He almost came out in panic right at the beginning of that mutiny. He was saying it was a stab in the back, that it was treason, that they would have to crush. And by the end of that day -- end of that day President Putin had given Prigozhin a free ride. A get out of jail. He was allowed as we know for two months to roam around Russia, roam around the world. And that made President Putin look very weak. So everyone knows that as Bill Burns said, he doesn't forget. He doesn't forgive. And when this happened, they know who did it. So that will be the -- that will be the legacy of this event.

NOBILO: The plane crash, ambassador, has been referred to as decapitation of the top leadership of Wagner. Obviously, there was also an attempt since this abortive insurrection, rebellion to try and dismantle that organization. But what becomes of the Wagner that's remaining in terms of manpower and organization? Does it get an absorbed into the Russian state? Does it get taken over into some other form of private leadership?

TAYLOR: Probably, Bianca. Probably some of both. That is some of the functions that the Russian government would like to keep, that is the ability to send troops and forces into Europe, into Ukraine. The ability to send forces into Africa to help coup plotters, help dictators in Africa. Russia would like to maintain that capability and they can find another oligarch or another leader, a retired general to take over some of that and put that Wagner troops to good use as far as they are concerned again.

Some, as you say, will probably disappear. There are many people in Wagner, many of the Wagner fighters were loyal to Prigozhin and they will not be happy with this assassination of their leader.

NOBILO: Ambassador William Taylor, thank you so much for joining us and for giving us your perspective. We really appreciate that.

FOSTER: And coming up, more fallout after the unsolicited kiss of Spain's soccer chief gave to a woman team player. FIFA is now taking action. Should get some news on that today.

[04:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: A Joint SpaceX and NASA mission to the International Space Station originally set for a few hours ago has been postponed. NASA says unresolved technical issues caused the delay. The new target launch is scheduled for Saturday at 3:25 a.m. Eastern.

NOBILO: You'll be getting up for that. This SpaceX Dragon capsule is set to carry four astronauts to the International Space Station. Latest forecast shows favorable weather conditions for the new launch time.

FOSTER: You know what time to get up. NOBILO: Soccer world governing body has opened up disciplinary

proceedings against the president of the Spanish Football Federation. And this comes after video showed Luis Rubiales forcibly kissing a player following Spain's World Cup victory.

FOSTER: It's the slapping as well. It's everything. FIFA says he may have violated rules that deal with offensive behavior. Rubiales has since apologized saying he made a mistake.

Now to other stories in the spotlight this hour. The Los Angeles Lakers will honor Kobe Bryant with a statue unveiling on February 8 of 2024. The late superstar wore the jersey numbers 8 and 24 during his NBA career. Bryant's widow made the announcement.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VANESSA BRYANT, KOBE BRYANT'S WIDOW: Hi, everyone. As you know, Kobe played his entire 20-year NBA career as a Los Angeles Laker. Since arriving in the city, and joining the Lakers organization, he felt at home here, playing in the City of Angels. On behalf of the Lakers, my daughters and me, I'm so honored that right in the center of Los Angeles in front of the place known as the house that Kobe built, we are going to unveil his statue so that his legacy can be celebrated forever. Hope to see you there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBILO: Bryant won five NBA championships with the Lakers. He and his 13-year-old daughter Gianna were among nine killed in a helicopter crash in California in 2020.

And if you are waiting for the June sequel to hit the big screen, you will have to wait a little bit longer.

FOSTER: Oh, boo. Now here's a quick preview of the highly anticipated movie.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look who is back from the dead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: I wasn't being sarcastic. Bianca thought I was. I am looking forward to it. Warner Bros., which has the same owner as CNN, is rolling out the June sequel next March instead of this November. The studio says it's because stars cannot promote the movie during the Hollywood actor's strike.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi Barbie.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi Barbie.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi Barbie. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi Barbie.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi Ken.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBILO: Meantime, Barbie now reigns at the box office as the highest grossing movie in the U.S. this year, with sales of more than $575 million. And that is after taking the crown from Super Mario Brothers which had $574 million sales in the U.S.

FOSTER: Also made by our company. It's going well.

Finally, it is a big week for pop music fans as some of the top artists are releasing new songs.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[04:55:00]

MILEY CYRUS, SINGER: I know I used to be crazy, I know I used to be fun, you say it used to be wild. I say I used to young.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBILO: One you can probably relate to, "Used To Be Young" a new single from Miley Cyrus. She says the song is dedicated to her fans supporting every version of her over the years.

FOSTER: I hope you have a younger anchor one day. And they will rib you in the same way.

FOSTER: I think your fans are the same. They celebrate you through every version. Young, old, bearded, cleanly shaven.

FOSTER: Meanwhile --

SELENA GOMEZ, SINGER: I will be unmarried when I break the news. But I'll be single soon, I'll be single soon ...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: And you can still laugh at your own jokes.

NOBILO: Because you could now throw it back at me, but you won't.

FOSTER: Selena Gomez released her new song "Single Soon." You set up yourself.

NOBILO: I did set up myself.

FOSTER: Actually, you know, it didn't quite work. She said she wanted to put out the song for the end of the summer while she works on her third studio album. And if that wasn't enough, there's also new music from Ariana Grande and Black Pink, plus a new music video from Zizzi. Expect it all day. NOBILO: And this one are you most looking forward to?

FOSTER: Zizza. Thanks for joining me here on CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Max Foster.

NOBILO: And I'm Bianca Nobilo. "CNN THIS MORNING" is up next.

FOSTER: Stay young. Stay young, Bianca.

NOBILO: We wish you a wonderful weekend. Stay young, stay fresh. See you on Monday.