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Gunman In Florida Targets Black People Killing Three; Three U.S. Marines Killed In Helicopter Crash; Mark Meadows' Federal Hearing and Georgia's Trial Of Trump; Russia Confirms Prigozhin Dead; Trump Campaign Raise $7 Million Since Arrest; Tropical Storm Idalia To Target Gulf Coast And Florida. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired August 27, 2023 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00]

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: They say she is already six feet tall and thriving under momma's care, and you can see both of them right now at Brights Zoo in Limestone, Tennessee. Gorgeous. Alright. Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. The "CNN Newsroom" continues with Jim Acosta right now.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN NEWS HOST: You are live in the "CNN Newsroom." I'm Jim Acosta in Washington. Good evening. Breaking news into CNN. Multiple fatalities from a shooting in Jacksonville, Florida, according to the mayor there. This latest community stunned and devastated by hateful violence. We now know the names of the three people killed, gunned down on what the sheriff is calling a racially motivated attack.

Fifty-two-year-old Angela Michelle Carr, 19-year-old A.J. Laguerre, Jr, 29-year-old Jerrald Gallion, all of the victims were black. We're also learning more about the shooter. The sheriff identified him as 21-year-old Ryan Christopher Palmeter and says he legally purchased both guns used in the attack, a handgun, and an AR-15 style rifle. One of those guns had swastikas on it.

CNN's Isabel Rosales is outside the Dollar General Store, where the shooting happened. Isabel, 11 minutes. Just remarkable. That's how long this rampage lasted. And now this community is trying grapple with another outbreak of mass shooting violence in this country. Isabel.

ISABEL ROSALES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And Jim, we're going to hear from the community as they unite here in the next half hour for a planned vigil featuring the Mayor Donna Deegan, the sheriff, city council and the faith community. Speaking of the faith community, I did catch the tail end of Sunday service at St. Paul AME where folks just expressed outrage and confusion as to this act of violence.

Also present, there were certain students from the HBCU in question where the shooter first ended with and then was run off by security. They were just in shock, praying over it with the lead pastor. We also spoke with Tracie Davis, the state senator representing District 5 Jacksonville, and here's what she had to say about the shooting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRACIE DAVIS, FLORIDA STATE SENATE: I don't want to confuse mental health with the fact that this was a planned execution of black people. In those letters he talked about black people and what he wanted to do as far as killing black people. So, I don't want the conversation to be confused with this is a mental health situation versus the execution of black people which he outlined in those letters.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROSALES: And Jim, right now you are looking at a zoomed up shot in front of the Dollar General where you can see that this dark black vehicle is being towed away. We're not certain from our viewpoint right here, but we think we're seeing shattered windows there. So that could be the very car that the sheriff said the shooter fired 11 rounds to this car first parking here and killing within a car, Angela Carr, was the name of his first victim.

And then going inside of this Dollar General, going on to kill Anolt Laguerre, Jerrald Gallion, and then the sheriff also describing a scene where the shooter chased after a witness, shooting at her, but thankfully missing her. She would go on to survive. And of course, all three of these victims, Jim, were black.

ACOSTA: That's right, Isabel Rosales, and I think you're absolutely right. We were just looking at that close-up view of that car as you're referencing it, and you can not only see that the back window was blown out, but that there are some gunshot marks, something, you know, the signs of it being shot in the windshield as well. So, it looks like they're still dealing with this scene over there, over at the Dollar General.

ROSALES: Yeah, this is clearly still a massive and serious crime scene. I mean, this shooting happened, you said 11 minutes. That's what we heard from the sheriff, but happened in the 1:00 hour just yesterday. And here we are several hours later the next day. And this is all roped off by a crime scene tape. This entire block, nobody can get in here. You can see all the police vehicles and we've seen investigators going in and out clearly still gathering evidence here piecing together what happened here.

ACOSTA: Alright. Isabel Rosales in Jacksonville for us. Thanks very much. Let's bring in former FBI senior profiler Mary Ellen O'Toole. We now have a name and an age for the shooter, Mary Ellen. We know he sent manifestos to his parents, the media, and federal agents.

[17:05:00]

What do you think about these manifestos? What does it tell you about this gunman's mindset?

MARY ELLEN O'TOOLE, FORMER FBI SENIOR PROFILER: The manifestos in a case like this are generally used for several purposes. They tend to be autobiographies, and they tend to outline the shooter's complaints about how he's treated in life and why his life is the way it is. They show a pattern of what we call injustice collecting, how other people are at fault for the problems in their life.

So, I suspect that that's going to be a part of it. And then I also suspect that there will be a lot of hate rhetoric throughout the manifestos as well which would be consistent with other shooters that we've seen in the past.

ACOSTA: And we now know that the shooter was held for 72 hours in 2017 under the Baker Act and there was a domestic violence call at his house with his brother in 2016. He was not arrested. The sheriff said there was nothing that could have prevented him from owning a handgun or firearm legally. What are your thoughts on that? Does, I mean, do we need to see some tweaks in some of the laws down there in Florida with respect to who should be possessing firearms. Clearly, this killer should not have been possessing firearms.

O'TOOLE: Yeah, certainly that's exactly right. And it's really not just in Florida, but it's throughout the United States. We're looking at domestic violence in many of these shooter's backgrounds and oftentimes it doesn't result in an arrest. We have to look closer at that. And the second thing is -- and if an arrest is warranted, it should be made. It should be on record, that combined with a mental health commitment of 72 hours.

This kind of behavior and thinking that we saw played out the yesterday does not go away. And I'll say this that families that are dealing with that combination of behavior have to understand it will not go away untreated and they have to be particularly vigilant with young men especially if they start seeing those other signs of behaviors we call them red flags, which indicate they're taking their hatred further.

They are purchasing weapons. They're not letting the father into the bedroom. I think the chief said the message to the father was get a screwdriver and get into the bedroom. When I did the original research for the FBI following Columbine, we found that one of the traits of some of these shooters is that they rule the roost. And what that means is they have a place of privacy where they can go and they indulge in these hateful ideations.

And that's -- families can't do that. The reality is if you have someone in your family that demonstrates these kinds of behaviors, it's not going to go away. And you have to be particularly vigilant to make sure that they can get through their 20s. I think if this young man could have gotten into his 30s, it might have been a different picture, but that's not the case.

ACOSTA: Yeah, I mean, there are plenty of red flags. He shouldn't have had firearms. And the shooter's firearms, speaking of red flags, were marked with swastikas. He took measures to visibly show his beliefs through swastikas on his guns. What does that tell you?

O'TOOLE: You know, we've seen in the FBI anecdotally where people will initial and personalize their weapons. I know in Columbine, Eric Harris referred to his shotgun as Arlene, and it's a way to customize it and to really, really relate to the weapon. So, that in and of itself, another red flag where they personalize these weapons, they become so important to them.

So, all of that, I think we really have got to do a much better job on what the behaviors look like when someone is spiraling into this hatred mindset. Hatred is not silent. Hatred has behaviors and hatred has verbiage that goes along with it. If you have a young male in their early 20s to mid-20s who's manifesting that behavior and who's also depressed, those are the flags that you really have to play or pay very close attention to. It doesn't go away in a year or two. It just doesn't.

ACOSTA: And if they're living under your roof, you are responsible. That comes with being a parent. Alright, Mary Ellen O'Toole, thank you very much.

Now to a military tragedy overseas. Three U.S. Marines were killed in a crash involving an Osprey tiltrotor aircraft in Australia. Five others on board have been transferred to a hospital in Darwin in serious condition. This happened during a military training exercise. CNN's senior national security correspondent Alex Marquardt is following the latest on all of this. Alex, this is just a terrible tragedy. Do we know what happened?

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: It's horrible. It's very sad. There's very little indication, very little information at this point as to what exactly happened to this Osprey that crashed just off the northern coast of Australia. We did just hear from the Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin.

[17:10:01]

He didn't talk about any kind of malfunction or pilot error. He did pay tribute to the Marines on board, saying that they served our country with courage and pride and my or with their families today, as well as, he says, with the other troops who were injured in the crash. You know, Jim, that in that message, he doesn't say how many people, how many Marines were killed, how many were wounded. The last figures that we have are three U.S. Marines were killed, five seriously wounded and transported immediately to a hospital in Darwin.

We do know, however, the context of what was happening in the moment. This was Sunday morning, local time in Australia. Twenty-three U.S. Marines on board this Osprey. They were taking part in a routine training exercise. There were two of these Ospreys that had taken off from Darwin on that northern coast. They were taking part in a multinational training called Exercise Predators Run.

The Osprey that went down crashed on an island called Melville Island, which is one of two islands right off of that northern coast. We have heard from Australian authorities. They said that some of the injured were treated on site. The Australian Prime Minister has also said that they're assisting any way they can in the investigation in the support for these U.S. Marines. He offered his condolences to the families. Here's a little bit more of what the Prime Minister had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER OF AUSTRALIA: Our focus as a government and as the Department of Defense is very much on incident response and on making sure that every support and assistance is given at this difficult time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUARDT: Jim, this is a unique aircraft. It can fly both like a helicopter and a plane. It is the workhorse of the U.S. Marine Corps when it comes to transporting Marines. And it does have a checkered history. It had a string of early accidents back in 2000. Some 19 Marines were killed on board in one accident. There were two more accidents last year that left some nine U.S. service members dead. So, this is the latest in a string of crashes that has given the Osprey a rather questionable reputation.

ACOSTA: Yeah, well, and one has to think they're going to be looking into all of this in the days to come. Alex Marquardt, thank you very much.

Coming up, the legal battle ramps up tomorrow for Trump and his allies. We'll break down the key developments next.

Plus, had the indictment strengthen Trump's hold on the Republican Party? We'll ask one of the candidates. Will Hurd, he will join me ahead. That's coming up live here in the "CNN Newsroom."

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[17:16:41]

ACOSTA: Tomorrow could prove to be a pivotal moment for the Fulton County case against Donald Trump. A federal hearing surrounding Mark Meadows' request to have his case moved to federal court or dismissed altogether could have a major impact on the Georgia trial for the former president. District Attorney Fani Willis will lay out the first details of her sprawling anti-racketeering case against Trump, Meadows and 17 other co-defendants.

She is expected to preview evidence and legal arguments for why Trump and his allies broke the law in their alleged efforts to overturn the 2020 election. Georgia Secretary of State, Brad Raffensperger, you'll remember him, who was pressured by Trump to find the necessary votes for him to win, has been subpoenaed to testify. Meadows was on that now infamous call with Trump.

Let's turn to a legal expert for some analysis on this pivotal hearing. Former Deputy Assistant Attorney General Tom Dupree joins us now. Tom, great to see you. Thanks for joining us. What do you expect to have happen in court tomorrow? This is kind of unusual to have the Fulton County prosecutor, the D.A., laying out pieces of this case in federal court.

TOM DUPREE, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: It is. And the law that's at issue here, Jim, is rarely used. It basically allows a criminal defendant who is charged in state court to try to move his case to federal court on the ground that, as I suspect Mark Meadows will argue, he was acting in this capacity as a federal official, and therefore he's entitled to defend his case in federal court.

It's a rarely used statute, and I think tomorrow's hearing should actually be a bit of a mini preview of the trial in this case, because what they're going to be discussing is when Meadows did what he's alleged to have done, placed the call to the Georgia officials and the like. Can he legitimately say he was acting in his official capacity as chief of staff for the president of the United States or as the D.A. will argue, he was going well beyond the legal limit and the scope of his official duties?

ACOSTA: Yeah, I was just going to ask you about that because Meadows is expected to argue he was just working under his capacity as Trump's former White House chief of staff and therefore should have immunity from the Fulton County charges. But I mean, let's unpack this for a second because Tom, I mean, and obviously, you know, there's the Hatch Act, there are things that you can't do as a federal official. You can't engage in outside political activity. You're not supposed to do that.

We saw the Trump -- members of the Trump administration, I covered it, get in trouble for that sort of thing. And so, is he going to argue that he was doing these sorts of things, that he was getting involved in an election as the White House chief of staff? I don't understand how that would work.

DUPREE: Yeah, I think what his argument is going to be is that, look, the chief of staff and the president were interested in getting an honest vote count in Georgia. Not saying this argument carries weight, but I think it's what they're going to say. He's going to say he placed his call to the Georgia officials and he spoke to them in his capacity as the chief of staff to the president in an effort to get the vote count correct.

And I think what Fani Willis is going to argue in response is to say, well, wait a minute. Number one, there's nothing in the Constitution that puts the onus on the president of the United States and his staff to do the vote count. Under our Constitution that's typically handled by the states themselves. And yes, they'll say, look, this was not an honest effort to get the true count. This was rather an effort to overturn the true count.

ACOSTA: Right. I mean, we've heard that phone call with the Georgia Secretary of State many times.

[17:19:58]

I suspect some of our viewers at home and perhaps yourself could recite word for word what Trump was trying to do on that phone call, pressuring to find more than 11,780 votes. I suppose Raffensperger is going to be a key witness in all of this because, I mean, I've interviewed him before and he has said publicly many times that he was being pressured. That's what was going on that phone call.

DUPREE: That's exactly right. And look, we've seen that Fani Willis expects to put Raffensperger on the stand tomorrow morning along with another Georgia official. And I have no doubt that's what they're going to testify to. They're going to testify to what Mark Meadows said to them, how they interpreted what he said. And she's going to use their testimony to paint the picture to the federal judge that Meadows was going well outside his lane in making this call and cannot be said to have been acting in his official capacity.

ACOSTA: And along with Raffensperger, Tom, the then chief investigator at the Georgia Secretary of State's office, has also been subpoenaed to testify. Could there be more evidence that we don't know about from these other players in the investigation? Is there, I mean, I would think that the prosecutor, Fani Wills, would want to keep her card somewhat close to the vest, but I suppose there's the potential we might learn some new information or gain some new insights tomorrow.

DUPREE: Sure, I think we might get a little bit of the edges painted in as if or maybe a little more detail and what happened on those calls and how they interpreted them. I would be surprised though if we got any bombshell revelations in tomorrow's hearing. For one thing, I think Fani Willis probably did a pretty thorough job in putting in what was really a sprawling complaint that's been dozens of pages.

She put in a lot of what she had. And if she didn't put something in, my sense is that was a calculated decision to leave it out. In other words, keep it for later, hold and reserve and maybe roll it out when the trial actually comes to pass.

ACOSTA: And tomorrow we're expected to hear from the judge overseeing the special counsel's January 6th case. Judge Tanya Chutkan is scheduled to set a trial date. We think that's going to happen. The special counsel Jack Smith, of course, is proposing January of next year. Trump's team wants to have it for April of 2026. What do you expect to happen?

DUPREE: I think she's going to come down in the middle, but a lot closer to Jack Smith than to what the Trump team is recommending. I do not see her setting a 2026 trial date. Look, my best guess is she is going to optimistically set a trial date for some time in 2024. I say optimistically because we can be sure as the night follows the day that the Trump team is going to try to push that trial date back, if at all possible.

I suspect she'll set something, hopefully, maybe aspirationally, for the first part, maybe the summer of next year. And then you can see big time efforts by the Trump team to push that trial date back beyond the election.

ACOSTA: Yeah. And the Trump team has made it very clear. I mean, I've talked to one advisor who has said that the goal is to push that trial until after the general election. Tom Dupree, thank you very much for your time. We appreciate it.

DUPREE: Thanks, Jim.

ACOSTA: And join us later tonight for a special look at what you need to know as the case against Trump faces a major test on Monday. Don't miss "Election 2024, the Campaign and the Courtroom." That's tonight at 8 Eastern. Just a couple of hours and the change from that right here on CNN.

Still ahead. Russian authorities say they've confirmed the death of Wagner Chief Prigozhin. We'll take you to Moscow with a live update on that. You're live in the "CNN Newsroom."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:27:54]

ACOSTA: Russian investigators say genetic testing confirms that Wagner mercenary boss Yevgeny Prigozhin was among the 10 people killed in a plane crash on Wednesday. Authorities had previously said his name appeared on the passenger list, but stopped short of confirming his death. CNN's Matthew Chance is in Moscow. Matthew, what's the latest?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, well, I mean, this brings to a final conclusion the mystery of whether he was indeed on that plane. I mean, of course, he was on the passenger manifest, as you said. But in the past, Yevgeny Prigozhin, the Wagner leader has appeared on passenger manifests of planes that have crashed, or at least one in 2019 in the Democratic Republic of Congo, an African state. And then he popped up a few days later saying, actually, I'm not dead at all.

And so, there was a sense in which, although it was much more it was very different this time, but a sense in which, you know, there was some hesitation before we actually said he's definitely dead. But now, the forensic teams that have been on the scene have retrieved 10 bodies from the crash site, from the plane crash on Wednesday. They've done their genetic tests and they've now officially confirmed that Yevgeny Prigozhin's body was among the human remains that were retrieved from the crash site. And so, the Wagner leader now is confirmed as dead.

Of course, it brings to an end, you know, to the life of a very controversial figure, one of the most controversial in modern Russia. But there are still lots of questions about why that plane crashed, for instance, that have not yet been answered, Jim.

ACOSTA: And I guess even though you got the confirmation from Russian officials, there really was just no doubt. Was there? There wasn't much doubt.

CHANCE: No, I mean, I don't think there was, no. Well, certainly to most reasonable people, there wasn't doubt. I mean, we saw the plane go down, his name was on the passenger list, it was his plane. And so yeah, I mean, now that's confirmed. But look, I mean, I spoke to lots of people at the various memorials that have shot up around the country. I was in St. Petersburg yesterday speaking to Wagner fighters that were laying flowers there and lighting candles and stuff like that in memory of Prigozhin.

And some of them were saying things like, we don't believe he's dead. We think he's gone to Mexico, one of them said, and will be fighting the Americans there.

[17:30:04]

That's some of the sentiment that's been expressed. But, you know, I think there may be still be conspiracy theories out there. I'm sure we're going to see some of that. But I think for most people now that the issue has been laid to rest in the sense that, you know, there's that forensic confirmation that Yevgeny Prigozhin is dead and he's not out there somewhere in the ethe up to no good.

ACOSTA: Alright, fascinating. Alright, Matthew Chance, thank you very much. Really appreciate it.

And joining us with more analysis is former Secretary of Defense Bill Cohen. Mr. Secretary great to see as always. Let's start with your reaction, I was just asking Matthew Chance, is it all that much of a surprise that Russia was able to confirm that Yevgeny Prigozhin didn't die in that plane that went down. Your thoughts.

WILLIAM COHEN, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY: Jim, could I just say something first about how sorry I am for the loss of life on the Osprey and the people who are still injured.

ACOSTA: Oh, absolutely.

: And some of them quite seriously. My heart goes out to their families, as it does to the families who are about to have a vigil for a neo-Nazi white supremacist killing young black people. The juxtaposition of men who are training to go and protect freedom for people the world over and have somebody domestically kill people who are trying to enjoy freedom.

Now, to get to the issue of Prigozhin. I think he was either a fool or a fatalist, but he had to know that he was in deep trouble. He called Putin a liar. Putin called him a traitor. He may be the only person on the planet who didn't see Godfather 2, where Michael Corleone is taking out Fredo with a big kiss.

And I suspect that's what happened when he went to the Kremlin, that Putin embraced him and may have given him that fatal kiss and Prigozhin thought all things were made up at that point. I kind of doubted. I think he knew that he was keeping on the move as much as he could because he was a marked man and was going to meet this kind of an end.

ACOSTA: Yeah, I mean, I think that's going to go down as one of life's great mysteries, Mr. Secretary, that, you know, why Prigozhin thought if he were to just stop that march to Moscow that all would be forgiven by Putin. It just -- it boggles the mind why he thought his days were not numbered at that point.

COHEN: Well, there's the other issue in terms of the Kremlin or Putin's office now saying that I know nothing. I did nothing. I had nothing to do with this plane going down. And it's almost what Michael Cohen was saying about his former boss. He doesn't have to say anything, just indicate what he wants done. It's something out of Thomas Becket, the archbishop who was murdered, assassinated, when he asked -- when Henry II asked, who will rid me of this meddlesome priest, in this case this meddlesome mercenary?

All he has to do, ask it. And there were people who will carry it out, and he can step back and say, I only asked a question. I didn't tell them to do anything. I had nothing to do with this. So, I think it's pretty clear when you look at the probabilities given Putin's history of taking out enemies, and this was an enemy as far as he was concerned who backstabbed him and was a traitor.

So, I take the footprints of guilt will be traced back to the Kremlin no matter what they say. And I think people will understand, even though Putin is enjoying saying, I had nothing to do, this is all part of some other plan, not mine, people in Russia understand this is what he does.

ACOSTA: And there's been a lot of speculation on what brought down the plane. U.S. intelligence says there's a number of possibilities that are being evaluated, including an on-air explosion. Based on your experience being over at the Pentagon, do you think that they'll eventually have a sense as to what took place, despite what the Kremlin is saying?

COHEN: I don't think we'll ever know because I don't think the Kremlin will ever give us the evidence that is real. Remember, they were responsible for the Malaysian commercial airline being taken down. They never allowed international inspectors to see what was the cause of that crash. Here, they're not allowing anybody to see what's going on or analyzing what they could have taken.

It could have been a crimped fuel line. It could have been foul fuel going through the lines. It could have been a drone fired by a Russian or a Ukrainian. It could have been a malfunction. It could have been a bunch of birds flying into the jet engines. All of that is possible.

But what's more probable and more likely is how many people have been chucked out of windows in Russia? How many people have died with a bullet in their head going across the bridge in Moscow? How many people have been put in prison for 10 years for saying this is a war going on in Ukraine?

[17:35:03]

So, you start looking at probabilities as opposed to possibilities, the probability is very clear to me. The footprints are traced by the searchlight of probability right back to the Kremlin.

ACOSTA: And Mr. Secretary, yesterday I spoke with retired U.S. Army Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman, and he was saying that it's possible that Prigozhin's death could somehow take some pressure off of Putin and that potentially could lead the Russians in the direction of maybe wanting to negotiate peace, I guess making the case that because Putin doesn't have as much pressure coming from his right flank that sort of thing that may be proven might be more in a mood to negotiate. Or might be in a better position to negotiate from a domestic political standpoint. What do you think? Or is Putin really just in a position now where he can drive a hard bargain with the Ukrainians, and he's just going to continue to prosecute (ph) this war the way we've seen it prosecuted so far, in a brutal, brutal fashion?

COHEN: You know, the question's been raised, is Putin strengthened by eliminating Prigozhin or is he weakened? Well, he is strengthened to some extent, but he starts from a lower base. He was weakened by the sight of Russian soldiers being wiped out by the Ukrainians. He was weakened by the sight of his generals being killed on the front line. He was weakened by seeing the Ukrainians take the fight to his people.

And then Prigozhin comes in and participates, and you have Bakhmut, and so Prigozhin becomes a hero making Putin look even weaker. So, the fact that Prigozhin is gone now, he gets strengthened, but only to the level he was before Prigozhin came. So, it's a temporary strengthening.

And secondly, when you think about Putin, he's sort of looking like bodybuilders who get pumped up by steroids and they look very strong, but they have a fatal heart defect. So, what the appearance was for Russia, they were big and they were 10 feet tall. When we saw them in action, they really were very small. They were six feet or less.

And so, I think that Putin may be strengthened, but only to the extent that he was even strong before. He actually was very weak before. He's back to being as weak as he was the time he went into Ukraine. So, I don't know if that gives him more opportunity to seek for a solution, but I suspect the only way he'll come to the negotiating table if more Russian soldiers keep coming home in body bags, that will put him to the bargaining table. I don't think anything else will.

ACOSTA: Alright, Secretary Bill Cohen, thanks so much, as always. Greatly appreciate the insights. Good to see you again. Thanks so much.

COHEN: Thank you, Jim. Thank you.

ACOSTA: We'll be right back. We'll be right back.

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[17:41:50]

ACOSTA: The community of Jacksonville is mourning this evening. Let's go straight to a vigil that's taking place right now where the community is remembering the victims from that racially motivated shooting in Jacksonville yesterday. Let's go to it now.

(BEGIN LIVE VIDEO PLAYING)

JU'COBY PITTMAN, JACKONSVILLE COUNCILWOMAN: And I know black on black crime. It's a hate crime! And Governor, I know you're here. And you know what? I'm glad you're here so you can see the people and the impact that it's had on this community. In order to make a difference, you've got to see it up close and personal. And as I tell my colleagues -- I want all of my colleagues; I want you all to stand. I want you to stand. City Council. My president, Mr. Ron Salem, who is leading this ship.

And when I say to them, we have four districts and one. And they will tell you -- you all can sit down. Councilwoman Pittman can't do it all. And when I asked for some money this week. You all know I asked for some money, right? And what happened? What happened? We don't get it. And all I need now, Governor, is you to give me some more. And I think I saw Mr. Lamping. Mr. Lamping with the Jaguars, I know you here somewhere.

You know what? Mr. Lamping ain't never up close on the front row. He's seen you from the sideline. And when you need something, He always there. And Mr. Lamping, I want to thank you and the Jaguars.

(END LIVE VIDEO PLAYING)

ACOSTA: Alright, we're going to keep monitoring that vigil as it's unfolding in Jacksonville. We'll go back to it later on in the program. So, stay tuned for that.

In the meantime, back to politics. Former President Donald Trump famously said his poll numbers go up with each new indictment. His campaign claims his latest fundraising figures are soaring as well. The Trump campaign says Friday was their highest grossing day so far. In total, the campaign says it's raised $7.1 million since his arrest in Fulton County on Thursday.

Joining us now is CNN political commentator and host of PBS Firing Line Margaret Hoover, and John Avalon and senior Political analyst here at CNN and the author of "Lincoln and the Fight for Peace." Margaret having your mugshot taken is supposed to be a bad thing, right?

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Depends who you ask doesn't it? Look, it is definitively a bad thing, Jim. Sorry to be cheeky about it, but sometimes we just have to -- we just have to do that to make ourselves feel better at night. The truth is, it depends who you ask. If you're a self-identified MAGA Republican primary voter in a red state, you're more likely to give money to Donald Trump when you see that mugshot because you feel that he is your guy and he is being vilified by the system, by a politicized Department of Justice, and the like.

[17:45:04]

If you are a Democrat who primaries in the Republican primary in New Hampshire, you're probably more likely to primary for a Republican who's not Donald Trump and help prevent Donald Trump from getting a Republican nomination.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Or an independent.

HOOVER: Or an independent, right. The point is, Jim, it depends where you are. Does this help -- if you're Donald Trump in a closed Republican primary, it helps him. But if you're Donald Trump in an open primary, in New Hampshire, it doesn't help him.

ACOSTA: That is a good point. And John, I mean, Trump can brag all he wants about his poll numbers in the GOP and his fundraising numbers, but this is not going to help at all in a general election. How does a mugshot ever help in a general election?

AVLON: I don't think there's any case of it doing so, but it helps to remind ourselves of that. Look, obviously this is the primary season, but it's about winning a general election. And Donald Trump's poll numbers are already in the cellar among independent voters. I mean, two-thirds of them say they don't want to see him be elected president.

So, when Nikki Haley, I think, stood out in the last debate, presidential debate, by saying that we got to face the fact that Donald Trump's for the least popular politicians in America, she's right when it comes to a slice, when it comes to the overall American electorate. But the problem again is polarization, its hyper- partisanship, it's negative partisanship.

So, there's an interesting article in "The Atlantic" showing that these polls might be slightly overstating how much he benefits. So, a lot of Republicans want to kick back at people who criticize Donald Trump. But do they really think it makes him a better general election candidate? I got my doubts.

ACOSTA: Yeah, they might say one thing to the pollster and then go into the voting booth and say, maybe the mugshot. Yeah, that clenches it for me. No, I'm not going to do this. And you know, just 24 hours prior to his arrest, the Republican rivals in the GOP race staged that debate there in Milwaukee. Margaret, did you see anything that could have changed the dynamic of this race?

HOOVER: It's a great question, Jim. I have to say, I look at that stage and one thing that really heartens me as somebody who's still a Republican was the number of shades and colors of Republicanism and conservatism in terms of just different factions of the movement standing out.

I mean, Nikki Haley really represented a kind of conservative that is not winner-take-all, you know, looking to find compromise. President -- and Pence articulated a different set of positions because he very much still identifies with Trump's policies without Trump.

So, you saw various shades of gray. When it came to, I hate to say gray, but like different colors of the rainbow when it comes to the conservative movement, which is nice. I just look at that stage and I wonder who can beat Trump in which primary?

ACOSTA: Yeah.

HOOVER: And I don't see folks emerging to beat him in Iowa. I'm not so sure Nikki Haley or Tim Scott is going to beat him in South Carolina. I think the opening, the real question mark is whether Chris Christie, because it's an open primary in New Hampshire, might, as he is now second in the polls, several polls in New Hampshire, might actually stand to nibble into his lead substantially in New Hampshire over time.

ACOSTA: Yeah, John, what did you see? Because I mean, the thing that stood out to me from that debate was when they were all asked would you still support Donald Trump as a nominee, even if he's convicted, that nearly all of them but one raised their hand. And to me, it wasn't so much what they said, it was what they did.

AVLON: Yeah, that's just cowardly nonsense and a question that sort of leads to herd mentality. Look, again, campaigns are about contrast. Leadership is about change, is standing up for what you believe and that charisma of common sense and authenticity. And every time these candidates tip toe around criticizing Donald Trump, they do themselves and the country a disservice. They make themselves weak or not stronger.

I thought Nikki Haley had the strongest debate against expectations because she finally started standing up and speaking out really clearly. I think Chris Christie has been doing that for a while, had a pretty good debate. I think Mike Pence got a lot of attention. The attacks were all going against Vivek, but you know, I think DeSantis and Tim Scott, you know, in some ways, rising candidates heading into the debate didn't stand out as much on that stage. But it reminds you that debates matter, and we should be having a contest of ideas, not a cult of personality.

ACOSTA: And Margaret, this morning, my colleague, Dana Bash, asked GOP candidate Vivek Ramaswamy about yesterday's shooting in Jacksonville that the sheriff called racially motivated. And she asked him about this in light of some controversial comments that he has made about race just this past week. Let's play a little bit of that clip and then we'll talk about it on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VIVEK RAMASWAMY, GOP PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm sure the boogeyman white supremacist exists somewhere in America. I've just never met him. Maybe I'll meet a unicorn sooner.

[17:49:59]

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF What do you think goes through the minds of the families of the three victims in yesterday's shooting when they hear you say that white supremacy is basically a fantasy?

RAMASWAMY: I'm sure they're grieving for their loss and I don't want to politicize those victims, Dana. I was responding to a question where someone asked me, what racism have I experienced in recent years? This is part of the dogma in this country.

BASH: You acknowledge thought that white supremacy does still exist in the United States?

RAMASWAMY: I acknowledge that all forms of racial animus exist in the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: You know Margaret, don't we need to have a much more serious and substantive conversation about white supremacy in this country? I mean, after all, we had Charlottesville in 2017, the President of the United States at that time talking about verifying people on both sides, and then Vivek Ramaswamy essentially trying to minimize the threat posed by white supremacy. And here we have yet another example of white supremacist violence in Jacksonville, and just keeps happening over and over again.

HOOVER: You know, I mean, there's two things. First of all, yes, we have to recognize white supremacy, call it out when we see it, and then fight it. And any candidate for political office, whether it's Donald Trump or Vivek Ramaswamy, that cannot do that, voters need to look at that and decide whether they think that they can represent the whole of America.

What we also see here is Vivek Ramaswamy, who has fashioned himself as a mini-me of Donald Trump, who thinks that he can run alongside Donald Trump, his words, not mine, instead of against him, even though he's challenging him. And he's essentially decided that he's going to be Donald Trump 2.0, but with a better smile. I mean, that's the only way he's differentiating himself from Donald Trump.

So, Vivek is refusing to, yes, recognize white supremacy, exactly like Donald Trump has, thinking that he can put a better patina on Trump policies. That's what you saw.

ACOSTA: Yeah. John, unicorns don't exist. White supremacist violence does. I mean, I guess I just don't understand that comment.

AVLON: Yeah.

ACOSTA: And he's made a number of these very glib, flighty and I'm just being diplomatic here, comments. And it's just -- it's a little bizarre that he's treated as a serious candidate when he makes these kinds of comments.

AVLON: Well, it's because he gets attention from it. It's because there are sound bite and they're outrageous and they get repeated. But that's where you got to do the reality check on it all. And you know, to your point, you know, if unicorns don't exist, we've got three dead folks in Jacksonville who seem to have been targeted because of their race. And it's not the only mass shooting we've seen where we know from the shooter's quote, unquote, "manifesto," they're motivated by racial hate.

And that doesn't mean that all of America is racist. You know, I think we can't have a more nuanced conversation in this country, but we need to recognize the historic roots of this kind of hate and why it's exploding in mass shootings over and over again, along with this drumbeat about the Great Replacement Theory. And the people who fan those flames don't help. So, we need to have not a simplistic debate pushed by either side of

the ideological spectrum. You know, America is dominated by racism or there's no racism. It's something we clearly need to deal with and this weekend's shooting makes it clear that that's far from done.

ACOSTA: That is absolutely the case. I'm going to leave it right there. A perfect note to end on. John Avlon, Margaret Hoover, thanks again, as always. Great to talk to you. Really appreciate it.

HOOVER: Thank you, Jim. Be well.

ACOSTA: All right. You as well. Still ahead, Florida is bracing for the impact of Tropical Storm Idalia. The latest forecast and how the state is preparing next. You're live in ACOSTA: "CNN Newsroom."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:57:56]

ACOSTA: White House says President Biden has been briefed on Tropical Storm Idalia. It could hit parts of Florida as early as Tuesday. CNN meteorologist Chad Myers joins us now. Chad, you're in that familiar position. It's that time of year again and it looks like we have something heading towards the Florida Gulf Coast. Tell us more.

CHAD MYERS, CN METEOROLOGIST: Something that could be very, very dangerous for the entire Gulf Coast. Let's go to this full screen so I can really kind of zoom in here what's going on with Idalia as they pronounce it at the hurricane center, but we're just going to have to go with it. Idalia. There it is, 40-mile per hour storm just out of the south east there of Cancun going to move up through the Yucatan Channel and make a run at Florida.

And look at that. This is the latest 5:00 advisory now up to 100 miles per hour and there are models that are higher than that. This is the cone. But remember this, Jim, most people don't even understand that the cone is only made to catch 66 percent of all landfalls. One-third of all landfalls could be left or right. So, Tampa, you are still in the cone.

And even a little bit farther to the south and the southeast, ask me about what happened with Charlie. We were standing in Tampa waiting for landfall. It turned to the right with rapid intensification and the storm was well south of where is forecast. Soi, this is the area under hurricane watches now, just posted the yellow tropical storm watches.

But what is very concerning are the seven to 11-foot storm surge, flood potentials. You slide that storm a little bit farther to the east those flood potentials are going to be closer to Tampa as well. Here's the American model. This thing hasn't even really developed yet so the models may have a little bit of a hard time at least for right now.

This is where the rainfall will be on up toward the Big Bend in Florida, but again, remember if this thing rapidly intensifies as hurricanes can do in this very warm water, it can turn to the right. And I'm very concerned about that.

ACOSTA: Yeah.

MYERS: Here's where the winds are going to be. There's going to be some whites in there. That's 100-mile per hour wind gusts.

[17:59:59]

And these are models that are still getting stronger as the days go on. Hurricane Franklin, haven't talked about this much in the Atlantic, forecast to be a major hurricane of 130 to 140 miles per hour. Missing Bermuda, but the problem I see here, Jim, are the insanely high rip currents here up and down the East Coast of the United States.