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Singer Jimmy Buffett Dies At 76; Judge Rules Giuliani Liable For Defamation Of Georgia Election Workers; Biden, First Lady Tour Hurricane Damage In Florida; War In Ukraine; Russia Claims To Stop Sea Drone Attacks On Crimea Bridge; Ramaswamy Gains Momentum After GOP Primary Debate. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired September 02, 2023 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[19:00:24]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington. Good evening.

Tonight, we mourn the loss of a one-of-a-kind music legend, Jimmy Buffett, whose carefree songs about life on the beach struck a chord with countless fans across the decades.

(MUSIC)

ACOSTA: Jimmy Buffett died overnight at the age of 76. His family announced his death on his Web page saying, "Jimmy passed away peacefully on the night of September 1st surrounded by his family, friends, music and dogs." Buffet was hospitalized in May and forced to postpone part of his tour, though no reason was given at the time and the statement on his passing made no mention of his cause of death.

CNN's Stephanie Elam looks back at his enormously successful career both as a performer and as a businessman.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Jimmy Buffett's laid- back songs captured the feel of lazy days in paradise.

(MUSIC)

ELAM: Some called his signature sound gulf and western, a mix of country and Caribbean music.

JIMMY BUFFETT, MUSICIAN: I love the Caribbean through a sort of a strange way. My grandfather was a sailing ship captain, and he's saying the Calypso songs. For all his southern amalgamation, material came in and came back out. And I learned to be a performer and that gave me the vehicle to do it.

ELAM: Buffett was born Christmas Day, 1946, on the Gulf Coast in southern Mississippi and raised in the port city of Mobile, Alabama. He began his career making country music but only really found his musical voice after moving to Key West in the '70s. His time among the colorful characters there helped inspire his

tropical style and eventually led to his landmark 1977 album, "Changes in Latitudes, Changes in Attitudes," and its famous hit song, "Margaritaville."

(MUSIC)

ELAM: But Buffett's greatest musical success was on the concert stage, not the charts. He made hundreds of millions of dollars touring over the decades. Supported by his legion of diehard fans known as Parrotheads.

BUFFETT: The audience is just so much fun for me to look at. I mean, there's entertainment to me as I hope I am to them.

ELAM: His music may have been laid back but Buffett brought so much energy to his life. He piloted airplanes, wrote best-selling books, raised funds for Democratic candidates, and amassed a fortune estimated at $1 billion through his "Margaritaville" lifestyle brand which included restaurants, hotels, resorts, and casinos.

Like his music, it was all geared toward capturing the magic of the tropical places Buffett loved best.

BUFFETT: From New Orleans to the Gulf Coast down into Saint Bart's and other places, I still can find magic in most of those places where people think there ain't any left.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA: Our thanks to Stephanie for that great report. And CNN's Patrick Oppmann joins us now from Havana, Cuba.

Patrick, great to see you again. I know you've got a lot of great stories about Jimmy Buffett from over the years. He was a frequent visitor to the island as we were talking about earlier on this program. He was a frequent visitor. Sometimes he would go through the proper channels, some maybe not so much. But he loved going to Cuba and all over the Caribbean, Key West. I mean, that was really -- that was his home.

PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Very much, Jim. And you remember meeting him during the visit of President Obama way back when, and he loved being here. Cuba was a place that was very close to his heart, even if Americans weren't always allowed to come here. And his father took him to Havana Harbor on a sailboat. And that is where "Havana Daydream" came from and the music here. He loved the Cuban people. And this is a place where he will be missed.

ACOSTA: And tell us about these impromptu concerts that Jimmy Buffett would do in Cuba. There's a picture of me with Jimmy back in 2016.

[19:05:02]

He was there as part of Obama, President Obama's trip to Cuba when he was trying to normalize relations with the island back then. And I know Jimmy was interested in trying to develop some business opportunities as he has all over anywhere where there's a beach. Jimmy wanted to put restaurants and hotels and so on. But he was also just a fixture around the island of Cuba as well, Patrick, for other reasons. And you witnessed some of this. Can you tell us about that?

OPPMANN: Well, absolutely. Just a couple of stories. You know, one thing that he never publicized but he would always call me a couple of days before coming out here and asked me to set up a concert with U.S. diplomats serving in Havana and particularly with the U.S. Marines. He loved the Marines, the ones who guard the embassies here and around the world. And I remember, you know, several times going into someone's backyard and he'd be there playing. You can hear the music from one of the videos that one of the Marines' shot.

ACOSTA: Yes.

OPPMANN: And here the guys are 20 years old singing these songs, knew them word for word. Songs that are older than they are. And I had a couple diplomats and Marines write me today and say this was the highlight of their service for the U.S. government, that a big star came and treated them like they were the stars and meant so much to them.

ACOSTA: Yes. And he was a savvy businessman as well. He had hundreds of restaurants. He had hotels. And they all were, you know, emblematic of this beach bum lifestyle. You know, blew up my flip-flops stepped on a pop top. You know, those were his lyrics. And, you know, I can hear them going through my head right now.

I grew up on Jimmy Buffett. I brought one of my mom's albums here. Here it is right here, that's -- this tells you a little bit about my childhood. This is what I was listening to growing up. But, I mean, you know, he just sort of personified this Caribbean Island -- I mean, he was living the dream, essentially, Patrick.

OPPMANN: You know, as his family said in the statement, his life was like a song. And it really was. I mean, here's a man who got paid millions of dollars to perform in stadiums with tens of thousands of people. And I remember one night here, you know, we had dinner with him and he said I'm going to play a couple songs with some Cuban musicians that he had just met, and we ended up in someone's backyard with maybe 20 or 30 people.

And I thought he'd play a song or two and that'll be it. And he played until 4:00 a.m. in the morning. He was just having a great time, free concert in someone's backyard. I don't even know who these people were. We got done and we went to go home finally. He was going back to his hotel. And the Soviet limo, the Soviet ZIL limo that he had Fidel Castro's, that he rented, the driver had taken off hours before because he'd gone tired and wanted to go home.

So then we had to give Jimmy Buffett a ride home in our tiny car. So my wife Alex, I and Jimmy's pilot Joe who's a big guy, we had to pack into our tiny little car, and somehow Jimmy ended up sitting in our son's car seat, our son Nico who was 2 years old, his car seat. And I thought this is just a mess. And Jimmy was cracking up because he said it was good training because he was hoping to find a space with Jeff Bezos.

And I realized this is one of the most amazing nights of my life, and yet this was every night in Jimmy Buffett's life. And, you know, every day was adventure. Every day was a discovery. And he had as much fun as anybody ever did on this earth. And he lived life to the fullest, and we're just going to miss him a lot because that's who he was all the time. And when you are in that orbit, you relished it, you really soaked it up.

ACOSTA: You really did. And I mean, when I met him in Havana, I just could not get over how personable he was, how approachable he was. He didn't have all these PR flacks around and say, hey, no, you can't talk to Jimmy. You could just go right up to him.

And I mean, I just walked away from that experience, if only I could, you know, experience life in his flip-flops. You know, he just had that kind of life that every guy, you know, on a barstool, I guess, dreamed of which is, you know, doing it your way.

OPPMANN: Those are flip-flops, Jim, they're going to be impossible to fill.

ACOSTA: Yes.

OPPMANN: You know, he was 76, he had some health problems, but you were talking earlier when you're larger than life, it's possible to kind of imagine that you're going to go. And yet, you take some solace in all the great stories and the life that he lived and the joy that he brought in. Just our condolences to his family and the people who worked with him for years who was very loyal, too. You know, they've got to be hurting. And yet, you know, to have been near him, around him, we will have these stories forever.

ACOSTA: Absolutely. Great stuff. Patrick Oppmann, always great to talk to you. Thanks so much. Really appreciate it. Good to see you.

All right, in the meantime, Rudy Giuliani may have to pay a steep price for his election lies. We'll take a closer look at the defamation case he just lost involving two Georgia election workers. Plus Governor Ron DeSantis skipped President Biden's trip to see hurricane-damaged parts of Florida but one of the state's Republican senators was there. We'll tell you why he praised the president. That's coming up as well. And later a muddy mess in the middle of the desert?

[19:10:01]

Thousands of people attending the Burning Man Festival now being told to shelter in place. Look at the conditions here, look how muddy it is. Nothing burning right there. We'll talk about that next.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) ACOSTA: A big loss for Rudy Giuliani in court this week. A judge ruled in favor of two of Georgia election workers who sued him for defamation over his election lies. Here they are testifying before the January 6th Committee. Shaye Moss and her mother Ruby Freeman said Giuliani's false claims and those made by former President Donald Trump turned their lives into nightmares.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUBY FREEMAN, FORMER GEORGIA ELECTION WORKER: I've lost my name and I have lost my reputation. I have lost my sense of security, all because a group of people starting with number 45, and his ally, Rudy Giuliani, decided to scapegoat me and my daughter Shaye.

[19:15:01]

SHAYE MOSS, FORMER GEORGIA ELECTION WORKERS: I felt horrible. I felt like it was all of my fault, like if I would have never decided to be an election worker, like I could have -- anything else. But that's what I decided to do and now people are lying and spreading rumors and lives and attacking my mom.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: One of the attorneys for Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss joins us now. John Lankford is from the group Protect Democracy.

John, thanks so much for being with us. The lies from Giuliani and Trump clearly had a huge impact, negative impact on these ordinary citizens, who are just trying to do their jobs.

JOHN LANGFORD, ATTORNEY FOR RUBY FREEMAN AND SHAYE MOSS: Yes. Thank you for having me, Jim. Absolutely. You know, Shaye, when she testified before the January 6th Committee, talked about how it impacted every single aspect of her life, and the same is true for Ruby. You know, when they go to the grocery store, they have to worry about hearing their names out loud in case someone recognizes them. When they stop by a red light, and someone looks over, they have to worry about whether someone recognizes them.

I mean, it's almost impossible to articulate the extent to which these knowing and reckless lies about Ruby and Shaye upended their lives.

ACOSTA: And I want our viewers to hear some of what Rudy Giuliani said. Let's listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER TRUMP LAWYER: Earlier in the day, Ruby Freeman and Shaye Freeman Moss, and one other gentleman, quite obviously, surreptitiously passing around USB ports as if they're vials of heroin or cocaine. I mean, it's obvious to anyone who's a criminal investigator or prosecutor they are engaged in surreptitiously illegal activity, again that day. And after a week ago, they're still walking around Georgia lying.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Again, none of that is true. We should note to our viewers. None of that is true. In fact, one of the women says what Giuliani called a USB drive was in fact a ginger mint. And, John, do Ruby and Shaye think that they're going to have justice some day?

LANGFORD: Yes. Ruby is a woman of faith. And from the start she has talked about how her faith has kept her secure in the knowledge that justice will be served one day. You know, what happened on Wednesday, in this case, was a signal of hope. If you're worried about the state of our democracy like I am and my colleagues at Protect Democracy are, it was a strong signal that the people who lied to undermine an election, presidential election, are going to be held accountable.

And, you know, what we saw on Wednesday was the first step to vindication for Ruby and Shaye. And they believe in their hearts and we believe that we're going to get that accountability.

ACOSTA: And another attorney working this case says the trial date for damages should happen this winter. And Giuliani is said to be having financial trouble because of all these legal cases against him. We've heard some of that. I guess what do you make of that? How much do you -- how money do you expect the judge to award? What if he claims there is no money to come?

LANGFORD: Well, you know, right now, we just sort of won complete and total victory on what's called liability. So liability is like guilty in the civil system. So the judge has determined that Mr. Giuliani is fully liable to Ruby and Shaye for defamation, for intentional infliction of emotional distress, and for civil conspiracy to defame and intentionally inflict emotional distress on Ruby and Shaye with Donald Trump.

So the next stage here is a very limited trial on the narrow issue that remains, which is exactly how much does Mr. Giuliani owe Ruby and Shaye for what he did to them, knowingly and recklessly. We are prepared to demonstrate that he will owe tens of millions of dollars in compensatory damages alone. That's before punitive damages. You know, that once there is a judgment on damages, which is something that a jury will ultimately decide, then we'll move to the judgment enforcement phase of this case.

And we're preparing for that. We're looking at the assets that, you know, we have reports that he has, like an apartment in New York. You know, he flew on a private plane down to Georgia. Donald Trump agreed to headline to $100,000 seat fundraisers for Mr. Giuliani. So we are not buying this, you know, claim that he has no assets, that he cannot afford anything. It really looks like there's money there and we intend to pursue it fully.

ACOSTA: And how are Freeman and Moss doing? How are they doing these days?

[19:20:00]

LANGFORD: It's so hard when people ask this because on the one hand, Jim, they live with the consequences of these lies every single day. And so when there's good news, like what happened on Wednesday, or when there's bad news, you know, the inevitable result here is that people go online and they say horrible, vile racist, harassing things to them. They still fear for their security. They have to be incredibly careful whenever they go out in public.

There is still people in their community who won't associate with them because they are concerned about what that could mean for them. So, you know, they're still living in a place that no one should ever have to live in. But on the other hand, Ruby and Shaye are two of the strongest, most inspirational heroes I have ever had the privilege of meeting. They have never wavered in their resolve to go through this.

And, you know, they stood up for this country when they worked an election in the middle of a global pandemic just to make sure that every vote counted and then when anyone else, when they were lied about, and the whole world turned on them, and when people came to their door and asked them to falsely confess to things they didn't do, they didn't go away. They didn't lie down. They didn't shy away.

They stood up and they filed this lawsuit. And they have been standing up in 2021 and 2022, and they're standing today. So, you know, Ruby and Shaye have a resolve that is hard to overstate. And so they're OK. They're going to be OK because they're both very, very strong women. But we need to see sort of full justice done.

ACOSTA: All right. John Langford, thank you very much for your time. We appreciate it.

LANGFORD: Thank you.

ACOSTA: And President Biden got a firsthand look at some of the hurricane damage in Florida today. Why one of Florida Republican senators praise the president. We'll talk about that next here in the CNN NEWSROOM. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:26:17]

ACOSTA: Right now President Biden and the first lady are on their way back to their beach home in Delaware. There they are getting off of Air Force One just a few moments ago. They spent the afternoon in North Florida getting a firsthand look at the damage left behind by Hurricane Idalia.

Biden delivered a message to Floridians devastated by the category 3 hurricane. He assured them that the government will help with immediate needs like fully restoring power and long-term challenges of rebuilding. Florida's junior senator, Republican Rick Scott, praised the president's fast response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RICK SCOTT (R-FL): First off, the president did a great job with the early declaration before the storm hit. That was a big deal. It helped all these first responders. And then how fast the -- you approved your FEMA, the individual assistance, the public assistance is a big deal to everyone. These are not rich communities. Many of them struggle. And so what the federal government is doing and FEMA, being a great partner, and the federal government being a great partner is a big deal. So I want to thank you for doing that and very quickly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: CNN's Priscilla Alvarez joins us now from Rehoboth Beach.

Priscilla, despite Senator Scott's praise, Governor DeSantis was a no- show for the president's visit. Tell us more.

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, and his no- show really overshadowed what was a really by-the-book visit by the president to an area that was impacted by a weather-related disaster.

Now earlier in the week President Biden has said that he did plan to meet DeSantis in Florida for this tour of the damage by Hurricane Idalia. But later DeSantis' office said that that was not the case and instead criticized that the visit was happening at all, saying that it could affect recovery.

Now today FEMA administrator Deanna Criswell told reporters that the administration along with the governor's office worked together to plan this visit and determined a location that wouldn't have any operational impact. And we've also learned that DeSantis was visiting other parts of the state that were impacted by the storm this week.

Now the president was asked about this by reporters. He said he wasn't disappointed and what really the focus of this trip was to survey the damage, to meet with first responders as well as community members, and really thank the officials that have been there on the ground, and provide reassurances to the community that they would continue to get the help that they needed.

And he took the opportunity to call on Congress to pass additional funds for the disaster relief funds. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: These crises are affecting more and more Americans. And every American rightly expects FEMA to show up when they are needed and to help in a disaster. So I'm calling on the United States Congress, Democrats and Republicans, to ensure the funding is there to deal with the immediate crisis as well as our long-term commitments for the safety and security of the American people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALVAREZ: Now this week, Jim, the White House asked for an additional $4 billion to their original $12 billion request last month. That brings up to $16 billion additionally for the disaster relief funds that FEMA has and uses to help them in the response and recovery to these storms. All of this coming to a head when Congress gets back from recess -- Jim.

ACOSTA: All right. Priscilla Alvarez, thanks so much.

And campaign 2024, the more things change, the more they stay the same for the GOP. An updated CNN Poll of Polls shows former President Donald Trump is at the top, he is at the top in terms of choices for nearly 60 percent of Republican voters. Support for his closest challenger Ron DeSantis now down to 13 percent.

[19:30:01]

Everyone else in single digits. These numbers factor in a new survey out today from "The Wall Street Journal" conducted after the first Republican debate. Let's talk about it now.

Larry Sabato joins us now. He is the director of the Center for Politics at the University of Virginia.

Larry, great to see you.

I do want to talk about the poll numbers in just a second, but can we just touch on Ron DeSantis snubbing President Biden. He was a no show, did not appear with the president as he was touring the survey, doing the surveying of the storm damage after the hurricane. What is your sense of that?

LARRY SABATO, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR POLITICS, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA: I think that DeSantis was very petty, and he looks as though he has been very petty and ungrateful for all of the help that is coming from Washington.

You know, Rick Scott isn't considered all that bipartisan, or if he doesn't particularly like DeSantis, and vice versa, maybe that had something to do with this. But Rick Scott even came to the event and praised Biden.

I don't think it helped DeSantis one little bit, I think he looks worse, rather than better. Maybe he was worried about Biden hugging him, reminding people of Governor Chris Christie meeting President Barack Obama right before Obama's re-election in 2012 after Superstorm Sandy hit New Jersey.

ACOSTA: Right. And a lot of people in the Republican Party just have not forgiven Chris Christie for that and it remains kind of a cautionary tale, I guess, for some folks who want to appeal to the hard right.

But Larry, let me dovetail from that to these latest poll numbers. They seem to suggest that the debate has really no impact on any of the candidates not named Donald Trump, and he is so far out in front of this field, barring some unforeseen event. Is this nomination race already over?

SABATO: It's never over before it's over. Lots of things can happen from one of the trials maybe being completed in time before the decision making occurs, a verdict being rendered. Although, the way things have gone so far, maybe it would push Trump up to 70 percent, so it is hard to say and health is another question mark, as it always is for both sides.

So it's not over, but you know, six months ago, Trump was in the low 40s and DeSantis wasn't that far behind him. Then Trump went up to the upper 40s After an indictment or two and then the low 50s, and now, as you pointed out, it's almost 60 percent. It's just really incredible. It violates all the rules of American politics, but then Donald Trump always has.

ACOSTA: He always has. And we can't -- I guess we would be remiss if we were to pass over this part of this "Wall Street Journal" poll. It found an even race between Trump and President Joe Biden, 46 percent for each.

The man on the left side of the screen is the president of the United States. The man on the right is the former president of the United States with four indictments, and he is still tied with Joe Biden in this poll. Larry, what do you make of that?

SABATO: Well, Biden has work to do. He's got to get out there and be indicted a few times. I'm kidding, of course.

What it says to me is that it's really about Joe Biden. He's the incumbent, it normally is about the incumbent. People are still unhappy with the economy. I think that's at the heart of it. Plus, yes, age is a factor, though, it is just hard for me to see how that will be the critical factor in the end when Donald Trump is just four years younger than Joe Biden.

But what it really says, Jim, this is important for Democrats to get. This is not going to be a cakewalk. A lot of things can happen, but it's not going to be a cakewalk. And remember, Biden has to be three or four full percentage points of the popular vote ahead of Donald Trump or any Republican nominee to be assured of winning a majority in the electoral college. We certainly learned that since 2000.

So it's not going to be easy. If it really were 46 to 46 and the rest going to Independent or third-party candidates, you'd almost project Donald Trump as the winner. I don't think that will happen, but it is good for Democrats to realize that it can happen.

ACOSTA: All right, Larry Sabato, great to see you as always. Thanks so much.

SABATO: Thanks, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right, good talking to you.

Ukraine says its counteroffensive is not failing, but moving forward. What's that all about? We'll talk about that next.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:39:53]

ACOSTA: Ukraine's southern offensive is picking above ground after seemingly stalling for weeks, that's according to President Zelenskyy who said earlier that despite reports to the contrary: "Ukraine is on the move."

CNN military analyst and retired Air Force colonel, Cedric Leighton is here to help us break down the latest battlefield advances.

Colonel Leighton, great to see you as always, thanks so much. So what do you think the real state of the counteroffensive is? You believe what President Zelenskyy is saying, that this counteroffensive is advancing to some extent.

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Absolutely. So let's take a look at the map here, Jim. And one of the key things to look at is this southern area right here. This is where everything is really happening from a Ukrainian perspective.

There is also some fighting going on right here in the east. So, if you go into the southern part of this, a few detailed areas here, this town of Tokmak is a huge Russian logistics area. What the Ukrainians want to do, they've already gained some territory right here, they want to move this way, and then down this way toward the Sea of Azov, cut the main highway. There is a highway that goes this way that is the main Russian supply area. And if they cut that, they will, in essence, cut this land bridge, the so-called land bridge between their occupied areas here in the east and Russian-occupied Crimea.

If they do that, then what they've got is a path forward to actually cut them apart and make it possible for them to advance.

ACOSTA: And let's talk about the dragon teeth. CNN has drone footage showing Russia's dragon teeth defense lines in Ukraine's south.

What impact are these obstacles having? And for the viewers at home? What are they?

LEIGHTON: Yes, so this is a video of the dragon's teeth right here and if we have a still of these, what we can show you is that these are pyramidal shapes. They are about three to four feet high made out of concrete and rebar. So basically, they are designed to keep tanks away from any of the other areas.

So if a tank is coming this way, they're going to stall the advance and prevent them. They will actually funnel them this way, and then they can be shot at. That's why they're important.

But if they can be overcome, then the dragon's teeth, of course, lose their effectiveness.

ACOSTA: And this week, we saw the drone assault, the biggest drone assault on Russian territory since it launched its war on Ukraine.

Today, Russia claims to have stopped a third sea drone attack on a Crimea bridge. Let's talk about the significance of the drones. I mean, it's been a key part of this war.

LEIGHTON: Yes, this is really important because this is the game changer. Drones have really come into their own right here. And this is the scene from Pskov, which is right on the Estonian borders. This is 600 miles away from where the Ukrainians launched these drones.

ACOSTA: Wow.

LEIGHTON: And they were able to actually destroy four major transport planes. And you know, you see the Ukrainians working the whole training effort right here. It is really important that they can do this with off the shelf equipment. That's basically what we're seeing here.

ACOSTA: And they've done so much damage to Russia's offensive with these drones. It has just been remarkable. And Russia says their new Satan II missiles system is now operational in the war in Ukraine. What is that? Can you talk about that?

LEIGHTON: So the Satan II is actually an intercontinental ballistic missile system. It's a liquid fueled intercontinental rocket, which can hit the United States. This is a nuclear missile, MIRV capable, which means multiple vehicles, it can take 10 vehicles with glide vehicles up to 16 reentry vehicles. So this is a potent intercontinental weapon. It's not designed for the Ukraine war. It's designed for intercontinental threats, and that's why the Russians have said that it is operational at this point.

ACOSTA: And just very quickly, Pentagon says Russian fighter jets approached the US and coalition aircraft seven times in August. This was in Syria. Talk about this, the danger that is posed by what is going on. What are the Russians up to?

LEIGHTON: So what the Russians are up to is intercepting our aircraft as they're flying over Syria, trying to actually make -- we are trying to make sure that we're protecting the Kurds. The Russians are, of course, protecting the Syrian regime. This is an SU-35 fighter that the Russians have, and what it is doing is it is intercepting a drone, and in other cases, it's intercepting our fighters.

So when they do that, they are trying to intercept our aircraft and prevent our aircraft from providing overwatch over our forces and over the Kurdish forces.

ACOSTA: More aggression from the Russian side.

LEIGHTON: Absolutely. That's exactly what that is.

ACOSTA: Colonel Leighton, great to see as always. Thanks so much. Appreciate it.

And Vivek Ramaswamy is gaining ground in the presidential race. Of course, he has a long way to go to catch former President Donald Trump. Still, he is making a big impression on the debate stage, it has a lot of people talking about his tactics on the debate stage.

Next, a person who has debated him many times says Ramaswamy is a master of smoke and mirrors, that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:39:08]

ACOSTA: Sharp elbows and sharper words, they are primary weapons of presidential candidate, Vivek Ramaswamy. The 38-year-old multimillionaire is gaining ground in the Republican field by unleashing his Ivy League debate skills, blustery accusations and his relentless attacks on the so-called woke as he describes it. Here is one from today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VIVEK RAMASWAMY (R), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If you're 19 years old, if you're 20 years old, you want to stick it to the man. You want to be heterodox and countercultural, that's how we got the rise of wokeism 1.0 in this country and that's okay, that's behind us.

Well, you know what? If you want to be countercultural or heterodox as a young person today, you want to stick it to the man. I've got an idea for you. Try calling yourself a conservative. Try saying you want to get married, have kids, raise them to believe in God and pledge allegiance to the flag. Right? That's countercultural today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Joining us now is Jeffrey Sonnenfeld. He is a senior associate dean for Leadership Studies at Yale University.

Jeffrey, great to see you as always. You have said you're one of the few people who has debated Ramaswamy publicly many times and that he is a master of smoke and mirrors.

[19:50:17]

But just to push back on you a little bit as we get started here. Do you give him any credit for setting himself apart in this Republican field in a way where he has the other candidates going after him on a debate stage, instead of somebody like the former vice president or governor and so on? I mean, it is kind of remarkable where he has placed himself at this moment.

JEFFREY SONNENFELD, SENIOR ASSOCIATE DEAN FOR LEADERSHIP STUDIES AT YALE UNIVERSITY: It is remarkable. It is almost identical playbook to what Donald Trump did in 2015 going into the early primaries into 2016. It is this flamboyant style, if you will, it's like paying the Sultan of Insult to a new generation, the millennial generation. He's sort of the Don Rickles, Andrew Dice Clay, you know, Shock Jock Joan Rivers, whatever, for millennials, so you create a lot of fuss, but there's no substance there. He just keeps changing the subject.

The great illusionist, Harry Houdini, the magician said the art of showmanship is not what you do, but it is what you get, a mystery loving public that think you do. He just gets people caught up in the smoke and mirrors of it all, whether or not it's in the business world or the political world. It's a pump and dump scheme that he uses.

ACOSTA: Yes, and so tell me about some of these interactions that you've had with him. What was that like? What did you pick up on in terms of his debating skills?

SONNENFELD: Well, I never sought out any of them and I've got an extensive e-mail trail record to show. I had been working in the arena of corporate social impact for decades. He has parachuted in after the scamming that he did in the business world with the cash he had. He thought he'd become the captain of anti-woke, you know, anti-ESG, even though he stuffed his companies not with meritocracy, but with his own family members and cronies working in the leadership of the companies.

He thought he'll attack the ESG movement and he wanted to debate me because of articles that I've written about social impact that doing good is not antithetical to doing well. The companies that pulled out of Russia, the shareholders did well, from pulling out of Russia and Ukraine. He likes to attack that sort of stuff.

And I've written articles in different places, "The Wall Street Journal," "The Economist," and he kept wanting to debate me to hawk his book and he actually wrote to colleagues of mine here to try to set it up and bring hundreds of books to campus. I kept saying no, but when I'm not fortunate to spend Labor Day weekend with CNN, I have to admit this, a staff commentator for CNBC, and they frequently have put him on, and I got set up because I was required to debate him there.

Also with the National Association of Attorneys General, I would debate him and he uses the same antics.

ACOSTA: And I mean, he has been facing questions for a while -- I was going to say he's been facing questions over his foreign policy views. He told reporters today in New Hampshire that former South Carolina governor, Nikki Haley's criticism of his position on Taiwan as a joke. He even took a question on this from a 10-year-old at a town hall. Let's listen to it and talk about it on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: I have a question, sir.

VIVEK RAMASWAMY (R), 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm excited for it. Hi.

GRACE: When you're president, what are you going to do about like, what are you going to do when China attacks Taiwan?

RAMASWAMY: Oh, that is a tough -- that's the toughest question all day that came from -- what's your name?

GRACE: Grace.

RAMASWAMY: Grace. Grace, and how old are you?

GRACE: Ten.

RAMASWAMY: Let's give grace a round of applause. I love that. I respect that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Jeffrey, how is he handling these questions on foreign policy?

SONNENFELD: I thought he was fantastic in that incident, however patronizing, it was. My advice to him would be to stick with 10-year- olds, and it won't be too much of a stretch for him to match their wit. He did okay on that round.

Instead of insulting the 10-year-old, that's a big break. But when he was on with Kaitlan Collins last week on CNN, of course, and she pointed out that he lied and had the actual tape from "The Atlantic" reporter's interview that showed when he said that 9/11 was an inside job and CNN happily proved. In fact, he did say what he denied saying. He then called her a petulant teenager.

ACOSTA: Yes.

SONNENFELD: I guess, she is not 10 years old so he gets away with that. She is his contemporary.

Exactly a week ago tomorrow on with Dana Bash, she did a fantastic job when he took on Ayanna Pressley calling this prominence, first Black congresswoman from the state of Massachusetts, called her the equivalent of the grand -- the modern Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan. She said, you have to be kidding, that's going to start it.

And he said, well, that was a -- he called it a fringe comment and she caught him on that. So we changed it to some nonsense saying climate change is a hoax and some of you guys had to go into a break like you're trying perhaps to do to me right now and he could never -- didn't have the chance to correct it by saying like what are you talking about by saying the Ice Age coming is the same thing as global warming, which it is.

[19:55:12]

But he would do that, and he has made millions of dollars by selling out drugs, which had 99 percent chance of failing, which he knew 99.7 while people are buying it with him hawking it while he is selling it.

ACOSTA: Yes, well, and I think those questions are going to keep coming. And Jeffrey, we're going to have you back. We're going to continue this conversation, but great to talk to you as always. Thanks so much.

You were right, we did have to go to break and we have to do that now because we're running out of time. We'll be right back.

Great to see you as always. Thanks.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: Finally, thousands of fans attending the popular Burning Man Festival are being told to shelter in place in the Nevada desert. Check out the thick ankle deep mud and massive puddles that go on for miles.

According to the National Weather Service, the area got hit with about two to three months' worth of rain. Officials are urging attendees to conserve food and water. More than 70,000 people typically attend this week-long event. We're going to stay on top of that story. Anything else comes up, we'll bring it to you tomorrow.

Thanks for joining me tonight. I'm Jim Acosta.

"The Whole Story," Trump and the Georgia conspiracy is next.

RIP Jimmy Buffett.

Have a good night.

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