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U.S. Senate Resumes to Tackle Budgets to Avoid Shutdown; Zelenskyy Sacks Defense Minister; Gabon Coup Leader to Sworn In as Transitional Leader; South African President Speaks on the Investigation of a Russian-sanctioned vessel; Pope Francis Visited Mongolia, tells Chinese Catholics to be Good Citizens; Fans Flocked to Key West, Florida to Pay Respects to the late Jimmy Buffett. Aired 3- 4a ET

Aired September 04, 2023 - 03:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[03:00:00]

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PAULA NEWTON, CNN ANCHOR: And a warm welcome to our viewers here in the United States and all around the world. I'm Paula Newton, ahead on "CNN Newsroom."

Averting a shutdown, Congress gets back to work and an old problem needs solving again.

Muddy and messy, deplorable conditions at Nevada's Burning Man Festival. Thousands are wondering when they will be able to leave.

And Ukraine shakes up its military leadership. How a new defense minister could make a difference in the war with Russia.

The U.S. Senate returns to Washington today facing a packed schedule and a ticking clock. Pressure is building on the U.S. Capitol lawmakers as they are just a few weeks to make a deal and avoid a government shutdown. Members of the U.S. House aren't back until next week, but conservative Republican hardliners are already pressuring House Speaker Kevin McCarthy to stick to strict guidelines on any deal.

They don't want to make any concessions, but McCarthy and the White House are seeking a short-term bill that would put a Band-Aid on the problem for now, moving the issue months down the road.

CNN's Priscilla Alvarez has more details now on those negotiations in Washington.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: As Congress returns from recess this month, the White House is asking lawmakers to pass a short-term spending bill to keep the government running and avoid a partial government shutdown. They're also asking for a boost in funding for some key programs that provide assistance to millions of Americans.

Now, separately, the White House is also asking Congress for a supplemental request, that is to provide more funds to FEMA, which has been responding to very expensive disasters across the country and whose funds are set to run dry by the end of this month, as well as more funding for Ukraine.

Now, House Speaker Kevin McCarthy has said the FEMA funds will be replenished, but there is pushback about those funds being linked to Ukraine.

Now also there is disagreement within the Republican Conference about the spending bill. Republican hardliners have asked for an impeachment inquiry into Biden, action on border security, as well as cutting spending to pre-COVID levels as part of passing any type of spending bill. So that is likely to play out in Congress in the weeks to come, but all of this really a sprint to the finish in September when the fiscal year ends.

Priscilla Alvarez, CNN, traveling with the president.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NEWTON: Age and mental health is also getting some attention on the campaign trail, and that includes among some Republican hopefuls. Candidate Nikki Haley is citing Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell in arguing for mental competency tests for politicians older than 75.

McConnell has had a couple of recent episodes where he has frozen and seemed days only to recover just moments later. He is 81 years old, but his fellow Senator, Republican Mike Rounds of South Dakota, said McConnell is quite capable of deciding his own future.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MIKE ROUNDS (R-SD): Mitch is sharp and he is shrewd. He understands what needs to be done. I'll leave it up to him as to how he wants to discuss that with the American public, but there's no doubt in my mind that he is perfectly capable of continuing on at the stage of the game.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NEWTON: So it is Labor Day and millions of Americans are off-work. So let's take a look at the weather and what that may bring people's holidays. Now heat advisories are in effect for the upper Midwest. That's as temperatures climb toward 100 Fahrenheit or 37 Celsius. The dangerous heat is expected to spread into the Great Lakes, mid- Atlantic and Northeast during the week.

Meantime, monsoonal rains threatened to bring flooding to Nevada, Utah, Idaho and Oregon. Showers and thunderstorms are in store for the high plains and we are keeping an eye on two active tropical storms currently in the Atlantic. Now, at this point, there's apparently no threat to land. And the weather's still wreaking havoc on that popular Burning Man

festival that's supposed to be underway in a remote area in Nevada. Now, we're learning that organizers now plan to delay the main event. They say the burning of the large wooden effigy will happen Monday, it was supposed to happen on Sunday night. Thousands showed up at the annual event, but non-stop rains in the Black Rock desert, think about that, delivered an unusual mix of mud, causing festival-goers to become trapped and unable to leave.

[03:05:05]

Officials say some 70,000 people do remain stranded at the site of that festival. CNN's Camila Bernal has our story.

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CAMILA BERNAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is still muddy. It is still messy for thousands of people who are stranded here in Black Rock City. Where we are right now is the main entrance and exit point to the festival. So thousands are expected to exit here on Monday. We saw many, many cars trying to get out because this is the entrance of the playa. So here behind me is where people are getting stuck in that mud. And I want to show you what that mud, that cakey mud looks like. This is what a lot of people are walking hours in and you're seeing it in their shoes.

They are covered in this mud is what you're seeing on this bike. It makes it impossible for not just bikes but also for cars and RVs. Here behind me, this RV they told me that they were stuck here for hours trying to get out of the mud.

So it is difficult to get out and the concern of course is for people who did not bring enough supplies, enough food, enough water and need to get out. Here's one person that I talked to who told me she just needed to get out to date.

UNKNOWN: It's quite expansive out there and it probably took me three hours of slogging to walk just from my camp to the road and I did get a little bit of a hitchhiking too in the back of someone's truck but yeah it's just really thick, dense mud so wherever it's wet it's just heavy and sticky and it's a real sloppy mess out there. Most everything's turned off but they're still some people partying.

BERNAL : And everybody that I've talked to has remained extremely positive, telling me they're making the best out of a very difficult situation, saying they're still having fun, that they've enjoyed this festival.

Unfortunately though, authorities did report one death. They said a body was found in the playa. They did not give any details as to what happened. And organizers here are continuing to tell people to be safe. They're getting prepared to get thousands of people out of here. So they're telling them that this is going to be a long process, the Exodus as they call it.

Camila Bernal, CNN, Black Rock City. (END VIDEOTAPE)

NEWTON: Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is overhauling the country's military leadership. That's in the middle, I'll remind you, of a major military counteroffensive. Volodymyr Zelenskyy announcing Sunday that he's dismissing Defense Minister Alexei Reznikov. Reznikov has served in that role since before Russia's invasion. He was appointed, in fact, in November 2021.

In recent months, the president has cracked down on corruption. Reznikov hasn't been directly implicated. But Mr. Zelenskyy says it is time to make a change.

CNN's Salma Abdelaziz is following all of these developments for us from London. Good to see you Salma. This was quite a shakeup. And while many believed that eventually the defense minister would be replaced, what reasons is Zelenskyy giving for why this has to happen now?

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You're absolutely right Paula. This is significant. Reznikov has been the face in many ways of one of the faces rather of this conflict. He's been a close friend to Western allies. He's been able to campaign for Ukraine to receive the supplies that it needs, whether that's material support or weaponry on those front lines. He's developed a close relationship with the United States, but absolutely his ministry has faced issues of corruption over the last few months.

Now President Zelenskyy did not point to these issues of corruption as being the reason for this dismissal. Instead, giving a rather vague response, Paula, mentioning essentially that there needs to be a change in leadership. Take a listen to how President Zelenskyy described it.

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VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Alexei Reznikov has been through more than 550 days of full-scale war. I believe that the ministry needs new approaches and other formats of interaction with both the military and society as a whole.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ABDELAZIZ: Now Paula, you may remember that at the beginning of this year, a slew of senior officials were fired, let go from their job, over issues regarding the procurement of wartime supplies. The Deputy Defense Minister also resigned in the wake of that. And then in August, President Zelenskyy dismissed the head of all officials in charge of military recruitment offices. And he's absolutely been working to clamp down on corruption, not just during this conflict, his presidential campaign. It was the reason why he ran.

One of the reasons why he ran was to try to clamp down on corruption. And he believes, President Zelenskyy believes, that's critical to getting Ukraine's bid to join the European Union, to join NATO, to join the European community, is getting hold of that issue of corruption.

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In fact, Transparency International in their 2021 report ranked Ukraine as the second most corrupt country in Ukraine. Still, this is an extremely significant dismissal and it might come at a strange time. Ukraine has just claimed a rather minor victory but saying that it has been able to pierce through the first line of defense of Russian military defense in the south, south of Zaporizhzhya, and of course pressure ramping up on President Zelenskyy to quicken the pace of that counter offensive.

He has already named a successor but that successor, Rustam Omarov, is going to face great pressure and again pushing forward that counter offensive particularly as Western allies clamor for more results on the battlefield.

NEWTON: Yeah. You have to wonder what the reaction will be inside Ukraine as well as in Russia as they continue to digest this news as you said in the middle of an all important counteroffensive. Salma Abdelaziz for us, thanks so much. I really appreciate it.

Now a young Ukrainian girl is showing the world her resilience and strength.

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That is 12-year-old Yana. She was wearing the pink shirt. You know, she lost both her legs last year when Russian forces shelled the Kramatorsk railway station. As you can see, she's not only walking, she's now running in races.

Yana ran 70 meters of the Lviv Unbroken Half Marathon. On Sunday, she's told the Lviv City Council that her goal was to encourage other children who have lost limbs in the war. She wants to show them that they can run again as well.

Coming up for us, Israel's Prime Minister vows strong action after Saturday's violence between Eritrean migrants in Tel Aviv. Details on what Benjamin Netanyahu wants to do. That's just ahead.

Plus, Gabon's military is set to swear in a transitional president after seizing power from the previous leader last week. We'll have the latest.

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NEWTON: Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is vowing to take strong steps following the riot Saturday among Eritrean migrants in Tel Aviv. Now, he called a special ministers meeting Sunday to create a plan to deal with the migrants involved and says he wants to deport them. Listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): This is rioting. It is bloodshed. It is savageness that we cannot accept. Therefore, the first thing that I'm going to do is to wish a recovery to the policemen who were injured in the effort to restore order. We are seeking strong steps against the rioters, including the immediate expulsion of those who took part.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NEWTON: Now, that riot erupted during an Eritrean Independence Day celebration near the embassy on Saturday when Eritrean government supporters clashed with opponents. Israeli authorities say at least 114 people were hurt, and that includes those 49 police officers.

Now, in the day ahead, the leader of Gabon's military coup is set to be sworn in as the country's transitional president. It comes almost a week after General Brice Oligui Nguema and members of Gabon's presidential power from President Ali Bongo. The coup ended the political dynasty of the Bongo family which had been in power for more than 50 years.

CNN's Stephanie Busari joins us now live from Lagos, Nigeria where she's been following developments. Stephanie, good to see you. In terms of what is happening here, there will be a transition of power and yet this really doesn't say anything about when there will be a formal transition to democracy again.

STEPHANIE BUSARI, CNN SR. EDITOR, AFRICA: That's right Paula. It's been nearly a week since Brice Oligui Nguema and his fellow officers staged this coup against President Ali Bongo who had the electoral body had announced won a third term that would extend his 14-year rule and they simply decided that time was up for Ali Bongo and now Oligui Nguema who is said to be a first cousin, Paula, of Ali Bongo is being sworn in today as a transitional leader but he hasn't given much indication as to when he will make that transition and he's been talking about what this transition might look like. Take a listen, Paula, to what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. BRICE OLIGUI NGUEMA, GABON COUP LEADER (through translator): The dissolution of the institutions of the Republic is temporary. The aim is to reorganize them, to make them more democratic tools, more in line with international standards in terms of respect for human rights, fundamental freedoms, democracy and the rule of law, but also in the fight against corruption, which has become commonplace in our country, money laundering and above all the preservation of the environment, which is a battle dear to our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BUSARI: So Paula, he's talking there about holding free and fair elections and returning to democratic rule. But as we say, he hasn't given a specific timeline. And he's under some pressure by the opposition in the country, who claim that they won the election that was actually said to be rife with irregularities and an internet shutdown.

They claim that they are the rightful winners and that he should transfer power to them now, in the interest of democracy. Now, it doesn't appear that he will be doing that because there are plans to swear him in later today. But not all countries recognize his leadership.

And France, the former colonial power, is watching these developments with close attention. They say France has a lot of vested interests in Gabon, billions in trade and they also have French troops stationed in Gabon. But there's no talk of any evacuation of any French citizens so far.

[03:20:03]

Things have been relatively calm in the aftermath of this coup, but it's just a little bit unclear when the democratic timeline will happen. And many are saying he's the first cousin of Ali Bongo. Is this another extension of the Bongo family rule that was in power for more than 50 years? That remains to be seen, Paula.

NEWTON: Yeah, a lot of concerns are being expressed both in Gabon and throughout that region. Stephanie Busari, I appreciate the update.

Now world leaders, scientists and environmental activists are convening in Nairobi to address the urgent consequences of climate change. The three-day Africa Climate Summit '23 is exploring solutions to the particular impacts climate change is having and will have on that continent.

Participants are putting a particular focus on drought and other weather-related developments. Now, the changing climate's escalating impact on migration and ways to fund climate mitigation initiatives in countries saddled with debt.

To Spain now where storm warnings are in effect through Monday for cities from Madrid right to Barcelona. That's on the heels of massive flooding from the storm known as Dana. Torrential rains swept through the country. One visitor says he and other travelers had to act quickly to stay safe during the frightening ordeal.

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JUAN CARLOS PENAFIEL, VISITING FROM BARCELONA (through translator): We organized amongst ourselves to make ropes with towels and bed sheets and use them to pull two young men who are grabbing onto columns. We pull them to the top floor and saved them. It was terrifying. Very, very scary with small children, women. Nobody showed up. We were left alone to save ourselves. It was terrifying.

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NEWTON: Now, officials are warning against unnecessary travel in the Madrid area today, and Atletico Madrid's match with Sevilla has been postponed.

Typhoon Haikui is headed toward China's Fujian province after leaving more than 40 people injured in Taiwan. No deaths have been reported, but you can see from these pictures the damage that indeed it did leave behind. As Haikui approached the island, some 7,000 people rushed to flee their homes. Taiwan's electricity provider is still working to restore power to tens of thousands of customers. More than 200 flights have been delayed or canceled. Offices were closed and schools suspended in several counties and cities.

Scientists are racing to understand a highly mutated coronavirus variant. BA-286 has made an evolutionary leap similar to the original Omicron variant that made almost two years ago. Now, if you remember, the Omicron wave caused infections and hospitalizations to spike to their highest points in the pandemic. That's in the United States. But early lab tests are easing fears.

One scientist saying the B.A. 286 variant is not, quote, "the second coming of Omicron." Preliminary results in China find that the variant appears less infectious than previous viruses. And a Swedish study is finding that our antibodies do not appear to be powerless against it. That is indeed good news.

Now, in Chile, a joyous ending to 42 years of sorrow. A mother who told her son, told -- was told her son died at childbirth got a stunning phone call telling her he is actually alive.

But as Rafael Romo tells us, many babies were stolen there in the 70s and 80s and this reunion is heartbreakingly just a few in terms of those families being reunited.

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JIMMY LIPPERT THYDEN, STOLEN AS A BABY IN CHILE: When I arrived in Chile, I felt like a lost puzzle piece, a piece that had been lost for 42 years.

RAFAEL ROMO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a birthday party that had to wait for more than four decades.

THYDEN: They stole. 42 years, but they will not steal 43.

ROMO (voice-over): Jimmy Lippert Thyden is celebrating with a family he never knew he had.

THYDEN: I am blessed in the fact that I have a loving family on both sides of the equator.

ROMO (voice-over): His story begins in 1981 in Valdivia, a city in Southern Chile.

THYDEN: My mother, my ma, she gave birth to me one month premature. They told her you know, oh, he looks jaundiced, you know, he looks yellow, we need to put him in an incubator and they carried me out of there before she could hold me, before she could name me, they carried me out and then they came back and told her that I had died. ROMO (voice-over): Thyden says that it was all a scheme to make money

out of unsuspecting foreign families looking to adopt children, especially Americans who had no idea what was going on.

(on-camera): Your adoptive family in the United States had no idea that you had been stolen as a baby?

[03:25:03]

THYDEN: They never believed for one second they were buying a child. They never would have -- would have done that.

ROMO (voice-over): During the dictatorship of General Augusto Pinochet in the 1970s and 80s, babies were funneled to adoption agencies, some from the upper classes taken or given up to protect reputations of their mothers and some from the lower classes where children were simply stolen.

Chilean authorities say many priests, nuns, doctors, nurses and others conspired to carry out illegal adoptions. Authorities told us the number of stolen babies could be in the thousands but the investigation into the adoptions has languished over the years and some of the hospitals where the children were born have shut down as we have found out over the years.

(on-camera): For many women in this country what this hospital in ruins means is a place where their children were stolen, a place that became a nightmare for them. They were looking for a place where they would deliver a healthy baby. Instead, they left empty-handed.

(voice-over): Constanza del Rio, the founder of Nos Buscamos, says that after Jimmy Thyden got in touch with them, she recommended a DNA test.

When a match came back a few weeks later, she says she knew the next step was making a phone call to a woman who have believed for decades, her son had died shortly after being born.

She couldn't believe it, she said. She thought it was a joke and poor taste because she had been told her premature baby boy had died.

THYDEN: She didn't know about me because I was taken from her at birth and she was told that I was dead and that when she asked for my body they told her that they had disposed of it. And so we've never held each other, we've never hugged. And today I'm going to get to do that for the first time.

ROMO (voice-over): After several agonizing months, Jimmy Thyden was finally able to travel to Chile to give Maria Angelica Gonzalez, his biological mother, the hug that had to wait for 42 years.

(on-camera): What would you like the world to know about what happened to you? What do you want people to know about your case?

THYDEN: I want them to know that there's tens of thousands of children like me. We tell our story, we do these interviews because we tell these stories until every child is found.

ROMO (voice-over): How do you get back the time lost? You can't, Jimmy Thydenn says. In the end, he added, the wisdom about what happened came from one of his daughters, who told him if a bad thing hadn't happened, she wouldn't be here. And thanks to that, her father now has not one but two families who love him deeply.

Rafael Romo, CNN, Santiago, Chile, and Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NEWTON: Coming up for us on "CNN Newsroom," we'll dissect Ukraine's strategy of replacing its defense minister in the middle of a full- blown counteroffensive against Russian forces.

Plus, South Africa's president says an inquiry could find no evidence that weapons were loaded onto a sanctioned Russian vessel near Cape Town. We'll have details in a live report that's after the break.

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PAULA NEWTON, CNN ANCHOR: And a warm welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. I'm Paula Newton and you are watching "CNN Newsroom."

Ukrainian military officials say Russia has launched massive attacks right across the country. Air defenses shot down 17 drones in the Odessa region alone, though Ukraine says some hit their targets. Several buildings caught fire, damaging warehouses and agricultural machinery. And six Russian drones were destroyed over central Ukraine.

Now, Russia launching those fresh attacks as Ukraine announces a leadership shakeup. President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is dismissing the country's defense minister, saying it's time for quote, "a new approach to the war." Oleksii Reznikov just announced that he submitted his resignation to parliament.

Now earlier I spoke with Jill Dougherty. She's a CNN contributor, an adjunct professor at Georgetown University and the former bureau chief of CNN's Moscow bureau. And we discussed the sacking of Ukraine's defense minister and whether the timing is significant. Listen to what she had to say.

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JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Right now, Zelenskyy is embroiled in this counter, you know, it's a counteroffensive against corruption. It's a major move against corruption in the country. And although Reznikov, the current defense minister, was not personally implicated, certainly the department was.

So that is really galling to a lot of civilians in Ukraine. And so I think bringing in somebody new and interestingly, I think the arrest actually of Igor Kalamolski is extremely important. He is an oligarch, one of the most powerful -- of the richest person in Ukraine. And he was just arrested on allegations and charges of fraud.

So this is a big deal, and it's something that's very important for Zelenskyy to do if they want to join the E.U.

NEWTON: Yeah, I'm really glad that you point that out. I mean, he was, in fact, reported to be quite close to Zelenskyy. And I do want to underscore what you said, right? This is a counteroffensive now. against corruption. I am interested though in your opinion about what you think Russia will make of all of this. Will they see it as a sign of weakness?

DOUGHERTY: Well, yeah, I was looking, trying to find some type of reaction. I haven't seen a lot of official reaction. Of course, there's some trolling, et cetera. But I think, you know, they will probably, and this would be my personal opinion, will probably take advantage of that and try to say that this is because the military counteroffensive is not working and Zelenskyy simply had to change horses in midstream, that type of thing.

[03:35:06]

They'll try to take advantage of that. But again, And if you look at what the Russian military has been through, a mutiny and several heads that rolled, people taken out of their jobs, et cetera, I don't think there's really much comparison.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NEWTON: Our thanks to Jill Dougherty there.

Now, South Africa's president says an investigation found no evidence that any weapons were loaded for export onto a sanctioned Russian vessel near Cape Town late last year.

And now for more on this, we want to bring in our senior international correspondent David McKenzie who joins us now from Johannesburg. And David, I know how closely you have followed the story. So now that they're saying the investigation has been conducted, what more are you learning about that investigation?

DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the investigation, Paula, was conducted by a judge and two advocates. It was set up by the president of South Africa, but an independent investigation, according to the government. You'll remember these images of the Lady R as it docked at Simonstown, a military naval base in Cape Town in December, which kicked off a whole ream of speculation of whether the sanctioned Russian vessel was delivering arms and, more importantly, taking arms and ammunition back to Russia.

There was a very direct statement, an unusual statement made by the U.S. Ambassador to South Africa in May, in part he said, we are confident that weapons were loaded onto that vessel and I would bet my life on the accuracy of that assertion. Well, several months later, Cyril Ramaphosa, the president in a

national address, in part dealing with this matter, said that, well, that's not the case. According to the independent panel, they found no evidence. Here's the South African president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CYRIL RAMAPHOSA, SOUTH AFRICAN PRESIDENT: When all matters are considered, none of the allegations made about the supply of weapons to Russia have been proven to be true. And none of the persons who made these allegations could provide any evidence to support the claims that had been leveled against our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCKENZIE: Now, Paula, of course, that's a oblique reference without naming the US, saying, well, no evidence was given to the panel that showed that weapons were put on. This is an important issue, of course, because it speaks to the non-alignment that South Africa claims it makes when it comes to Russia and the war in Ukraine.

And it did lead to significant increase in tension between the U.S. and South Africa at a critical time. South Africa's president said the allegations impacted the currency, the economy, and the reputation of South Africa. They did say that they will continue their non-aligned movement. I've a non-aligned stance on the war. I put the question to the U.S. Embassy here in South Africa asking whether they would move back their statements, whether they do plan to give any evidence of this, but an intriguing story and certainly one that has had significant consequences. Paula?

NEWTON: Yeah, it certainly has. And obviously you brought the story to us and the blunt assertions there by that U.S. diplomat still no conclusion in terms of figuring out exactly what evidence they actually had. David McKenzie for us in Johannesburg, I really appreciate the update.

Still ahead as Americans mark Labor Day film and TV writers and the major studios remain locked in a labor dispute. I'll speak with a media expert about why the two sides are still at loggerheads.

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[03:40:00]

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NEWTON: Well the Americans marking their Labor Day holiday today, one major labor dispute still seems far from resolution. The Hollywood writer strike. Now it's been four months, can you believe it, since America's television and film writers walked off the job.

The dispute comes as consumers increasingly embrace streaming media. Now as the industry adjusts, it's making obsolete the traditional ways writers have been paid and pursued their work. So the issues involve pay, and residuals, staffing and exclusivity contracts and even artificial intelligence.

Meantime, SAG-AFTRA's national board is unanimously seeking permission from union members to strike against a number of video game makers that's ahead of negotiations resuming later this month.

Joining me now to discuss all of this from the Netherlands is Gavin Mueller. He is assistant professor of new media and digital culture at the University of Amsterdam. And it's really good to have your perspective as we continue to watch from the sidelines this labor dispute.

Now, months ago in a piece for "The Atlantic," you pointed out that this strike is both about money and technology, especially given, you know, the implications of artificial intelligence. Can you lay it out for us? I mean, what's at stake? Because you argue it's not just an issue for Hollywood, but all of us should pay attention.

GAVIN MUELLER, ASST. PROFESSOR, NEW MEDIA AND DIGITAL CULTURE, UNIVERSITY OF AMSTERDAM: Yeah. What is really fascinating here is precisely that, is that technology is on the table as part of the push-and-pull between labor and management that has implications for not just for writers, but as we're seeing for actors, and for practically anyone that works directly with digital technology, which is the vast majority of us.

NEWTON: And in terms of what's going on here though, I mean clearly there is substantial pushback. At the crux of it, it seems as if both the streamers and the Hollywood studios just do not want to blow apart the model of payment that they were getting used to in the last few years.

MUELLER: Yeah, I think what we can kind of see now that we have a little bit of historical perspective is that from, maybe a viewer's standpoint, watching something on a streamer is not so different than watching television in a pre-internet era.

But from the perspective of the studios, when a new technology was introduced, that became grounds, whether justified or not, to kind of tear up all the old agreements and ultimately to pay writers and other creatives in Hollywood a lot less for what is essentially the same kind of work.

NEWTON: And I want you to hear now from the actor Adam Driver. He just in the last little while pointed out that if smaller companies can acquiesce to writers' demands, then why not big streamers and studios? I want you to take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ADAM DRIVER, ACTOR: Why is it that a distribution company, a smaller distribution company, like NEON and STX International, can meet the dream demands of what SAG is asking for? This is pre-negotiation, the dream version of SAG's wish list, but a big company like Netflix and Amazon can't.

(END VIDEO CLIP) [03:45:07]

NEWTON: You know, clearly his opinion carries a lot of weight, and so why is it? Why do you think they're putting up, you know, such opposition to really changing this model?

MUELLER: Well, I think if you're in a large corporation, a large kind of conglomerate, you have a lot of much more intense financial pressures, but also your general perspective on the craft of filmmaking is that financial perspective. So these companies are thinking long term, how are they gonna reduce their labor costs? They're not as, for them, it's not as important to have the best kind of quality or fair working conditions.

And so we might see with smaller organizations who are a little bit closer to the craft, yeah, they're willing to talk. The big corporations that are primarily looking at television and film as a kind of commodity, they're worried about the bottom line.

NEWTON: And when we talk about that bottom line, I find it fascinating that you're saying that anyone should pay attention, anyone whose job might involve A.I. should pay attention to this. Why?

MUELLER: Well, it's going to be incorporated in all sorts of things. We're already seeing that now as far as anyone who makes a living in writing or analyzing things. It's -- Now from my perspective, I don't think that A.I. can actually do a lot of the work that we're being told it's going to be able to do. I think the jury is out on that.

But what we can see from a historical perspective and what is definitely the case in Hollywood, a new technology is introduced and that becomes the grounds to change how things are done and leverage against work. So if you're working in an office, if you're working remotely, If you're working in a creative field, if you write emails, you're going be told, whether true or not, that well, your job just got a lot easier because of A.I., so you don't deserve as much.

I don't think that's the case. And I think that anybody who is concerned about making a living should follow these developments really closely and think about what kinds of leverage you have.

NEWTON: So in terms of it being a test case, can you make any predictions? I mean, they've held out quite a bit. Some speculate that perhaps they just streamers and studios just want to save money for a little bit. And then they will go to the table. I mean, what do you think?

MUELLER: Well, I would love to see the strike resolved in a fair way as soon as possible. It's very difficult to go for this amount of time without working, but I think what's really inspiring is writers seem to really see this as a kind of historic moment, to kind of really establish a fair, equitable framework for the craft of writing, not just for the next season of television, but for years coming, years into the future, when we'll have, of course, new developments in A.I. If they can lock down some fair things now, then the craft of writing will be protected. I think that we'll probably see the strike conclude probably before

the end of the year, but we'll have to see. The main question is whether the production schedules for winter will be met. If they don't come to an arrangement soon, we'll have another sort of quarterly delay on production of new television and film.

NEWTON: Yeah, and that certainly hurts all of us who obviously are going to be missing that originality, and there are a lot of economies actually all over the world. cities and towns that have been hit by this strike as well. But also, we're so thankful that you were able to put it in perspective for us, really, in terms of what it means in the larger model coming, given artificial intelligence.

Gavin Mueller, thanks so much. I Really appreciate it.

MUELLER: Thank you for having me.

NEWTON: Still to come for us, Pope Francis' message to China during his visit to neighboring Mongolia. More on the pontiff's historic trip after a quick break.

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NEWTON: Pope Francis is on his way home from Mongolia a day after celebrating mass in a country with a Catholic community of only about 1,500 people. It was his first ever trip there by a pontiff, and during mass he urged Catholics in neighboring China to be good citizens and good Christians. It was a rare instance of the Holy Father publicly addressing the issue of religion in China.

CNN's Michael Holmes has the details.

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MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A gathering of the faithful in one of the smallest and most remote communities of Catholics in the world. On Sunday, Pope Francis celebrated Mass in Mongolia, a country with a population of around 3 million people, but only about 1,500 are Catholics, and nearly all of them came to see the pontiff.

UNKNOWN (through translator): I'm so happy that Pope Francis visited Mongolia. I got emotional when I attended Mass. I think it furthered my spirit. I'm very, very thankful.

HOLMES (voice-over): But Vatican watchers say this trip to Mongolia wasn't just about spreading the church's message to a country where no pope has visited before. It was also strategic and a chance to ease tensions with two of Mongolia's neighbors, China and Russia.

Relations between the Vatican and Moscow have deteriorated since the invasion of Ukraine, and there have been tensions with Beijing over its treatment of religious minorities and a controversial agreement to jointly appoint bishops in China.

But on Saturday, in words thought to be directed at China and Russia, the pope said the church is not a threat to governments and secular institutions. And during mass he made yet another overture by sending greetings to his Chinese followers.

POPE FRANCIS (through translator): To the people, I wish the best and to go ahead. Always make progress. To Chinese Catholics, I ask you to be good Christians and good citizens.

HOLMES (voice-over): Some small groups of worshippers traveled from China for the service, which was more of a low-key affair than other papal trips that can draw over a million people.

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But this woman who came from Hong Kong said it was worth the journey.

UNKNOWN: How did it feel?

UNKNOWN: Very amazing. Yeah, because he is my papa. And then when the time I joined them, today I joined the mass, I feel very amazing.

HOLMES (voice-over): The Pope leaves Mongolia, no doubt encouraging the Catholic base there, whether he made any headway with Mongolia's neighbors' remains to be seen.

Michael Holmes, CNN.

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NEWTON: Now as fans mourn the death of music legend Jimmy Buffett, we're learning more about the health battles he faced in his final years. Buffett died Friday after a four-year battle with Merkel cell cancer. It's a rare and aggressive form of skin cancer.

On Sunday, hundreds of fans gathered in his former hometown of Key West, Florida to honor his life and career.

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You see them there decked out in colorful costumes. The crowd marched down the city's main drag in a second line parade, a tradition with roots in another city Buffett had deep ties to, New Orleans.

Four crew members, meantime, of the International Space Station splash down off the coast of Jacksonville, Florida the past few hours. Their return aboard a SpaceX crew dragon capsule had to be delayed due to Hurricane Idalia. Two NASA astronauts, an astronaut from the United Arab Emirates and a Russian cosmonaut notably, were later held out of the capsule. They had been aboard the space station since March.

And that does it for me. I'm Paula Newton. I want to thank you for your company. More "CNN Newsroom" is next with Max Foster and Bianca Nobilo.

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