Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

State Media Releases Photos of Kim Jong-Un's Visits in Russian Military Sites; Hunter Biden Indicted on Gun Charges; UAW Members went on Strike as the Midnight Deadline is Expired. New Study: Conditions On Earth May Be Moving Outside "Safe Operating Space" For Humanity; Humans Pushing Limits Of Our Planet; Arm Stock Surges 25 Percent In Nasdaq Debut; Apollo Spacecraft On Moon Causing Lunar Quakes. Aired 2- 3a ET

Aired September 15, 2023 - 02:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[02:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KIM BRUNHUBER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to all of you watching us around the world. I'm Kim Brunhuber, ahead on "CNN Newsroom."

The United Nations says most of the deaths from the floods in Libya could have been avoided.

North Korean leader Kim Jong-un visits key military sites in Russia. As we learn, Russian President Vladimir Putin has accepted Kim's invitation to visit North Korea.

And a new study says the Earth could be moving into the danger zone. We'll talk to the co-author of that report about what it could mean for humanity.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): This is "CNN Newsroom" with Kim Brunhuber.

BRUNHUBER: And we begin this hour in Libya where the U.N. says most of the deaths from the catastrophic flooding could have been avoided with earlier warnings and evacuations. Libyan authorities are demanding an investigation of who's to blame for the tragedy.

Doctors Without Borders puts the death toll at 5,000 but the mayor of the hardest-hit city, Derna, says it could be four times that number. The U.N. is requesting more than 71 million dollars for the most urgent needs. It says 300,000 children are at risk for disease and displacement. The Marine port into Derna is now accessible to ships delivering supplies.

We have more now from CNN's Jomana Karadsheh who's just arrived in Derna.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It took us more than seven hours to get from Benghazi to the city of Derna. And that is a drive that typically takes about three hours. And that is because so many roads, so many bridges around Derna have been destroyed. And you can imagine what that means for the aid, for the relief, for the support that would be coming into the city and how difficult it is at this time.

And driving in at night, this felt like a ghost town. It is eerily quiet. And everywhere you look, you see damage and destruction. It's dark, it's nighttime, but we can still see so much destruction around here. It is just, it feels like a war zone. It feels like a bomb had gone off here, a big bomb had gone off here.

And it's very hard to stand here and not imagine what people in this city went through. Thousands of people lost their lives. More than 10,000 right now unaccounted for and everyone you speak to here fears that dust hole is only going to rise in the coming days and all this destruction, the loss of life.

Officials are telling us this all happened in less than two hours, perhaps an hour and a half, they believe, after those dams burst and the water came sweeping through the city, wiping out entire neighborhoods, they say, sweeping buildings, infrastructure, cities, homes, families into the sea.

It is just unimaginable what has taken place in the city. And it is left so many people here in shock. Libyans tell us they're used to war, they're used to death, they're used to loss, but nothing could have prepared them for this.

On our drive into Derna, we saw so many cars coming in from different parts of the country, from the far west, from the south. Libyans coming together, coming here to deliver aid, to volunteer, to support the people in this part of the country and the people of Derna. And it seems that this divided country has come together, that this tragedy, this loss has brought them together, at least for now.

Jomana Karadsheh, CNN, Derna, Libya.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BRUNHUBER: Now one of the greatest needs in Derna is volunteers to collect bodies and dig graves. We have more now from CNN's senior international correspondent Ben Wedeman.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Days after disaster struck Derna, they're still collecting the bodies. Egyptian rescue workers lower one full body bag to the pavement and go back for another.

The death toll is still unclear, but there's no doubt thousands were killed in the floods and thousands more remain missing. This survivor recounts what he saw.

The children died in front of my eyes, my neighbors died, he says. It feels like a nightmare. Until this hour, I still can't believe it. And the nightmare isn't over. [02:05:06]

The magnitude of this disaster is more than this doctor, interviewed on Libyan television, can take.

The numbers, he says, are awful.

In a country consumed by years of conflict and hijacked by rival foreign powers, simple things like the weather service were neglected, says the head of the World Meteorological Organization.

PETTERI TAALAS, SECRETARY GENERAL, WORLD METEOROLOGICAL ORGANIZATION: If they would have been normally operating (inaudible), they could have issued warnings and also the emergency management authorities would have been able to carry out evacuation of the people.

WEDEMAN (voice-over): In Derna, the authorities urged caution and imposed a curfew before the storm. But there were no evacuations. And this is the result.

Ben Wedeman, CNN, Rome.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BRUNHUBER: One week after a devastating earthquake ravaged parts of Morocco, international search and rescue teams are saying hopeful as they search for survivors in the rubble. Now they admit things aren't looking good, but they say they aren't ready to give up. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIM CHASTON, OPERATION COMMANDER: We haven't had the success of actually rescuing any people. We have done some first aid and some medical evacuations from some of the other villages, so that's really played our part. Moving forward, we're going to continue as long as the Moroccan people want us here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: Roads in many villages and the high atlas mountains remain blocked by landslides following the 6.8 quake that killed nearly 3,000 people. The government says it's doing everything it can to help quake victims, but some people are taking steps to get what they need on their own.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MOUHAMED ZIDAN, AWFOUR VILLAGE RESIDENT (through translator): We use donkeys to transport aid and goods because the roads do not exist and we live in the mountains. People were greatly affected by this earthquake and they had nothing. We live in the open and we have nothing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: The September 8th earthquake was the deadliest to strike Morocco since 1960 and the most powerful in more than a century.

The mayor of Lampedusa says the migrant crisis has reached a point of no return. Tensions flared on the tiny Italian island as it struggles to cope with a surge of arrivals in the past two days. There are unconfirmed reports of 7,000 people landing on its shores. Lampedusa's population is about 6,000. The island in the Mediterranean has long been a hot spot for migrants crossing from North Africa into Europe.

North Korea's reclusive leader is on the move in Russia's Far East. Russian state media released footage of Kim Jong-un touring a plant that makes fighter jets. It's reportedly the country's largest aviation manufacturing facility.

Kim is expected to visit several military-related sites following his high-stakes summit with Russian President, amid Western concerns about a possible weapons deal. Kremlin has confirmed the two leaders will meet again in Pyongyang, but didn't reveal when. We're also hearing some of the gifts they exchange during their talks on Wednesday were locally-made firearms.

Now, looming large over this closely watched summit is China. CNN's Paula Hancocks explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It is Kim Jong-un's first known trip outside of North Korea in more than four years. Not to China, the country that's propped his country up for decades, but Russia, historically North Korea's second-closest ally.

ANDREI LAKOV, PROFESSOR, KOOKMIN UNIVERSITY: He is basically hedging against possible change in Chinese position. China might make a deal behind his back with the Americans. China might get in serious economic trouble.

HANCOCKS (voice-over): Beijing has said the Putin-Kim meeting is a matter for those two countries, but in recent years has made a clear move towards Russia as relations with the United States worsen. Xi Jinping has met Vladimir Putin 40 times in 10 years. That's according to U.S. think tank CSIS, in bilateral and multilateral settings. The Kremlin says another meeting is upcoming.

While China is not believed to have provided arms to Russia, an unclassified report by U.S. intelligence says it has given technology that is helping Moscow in its war on Ukraine. Xi's no-show at the recent G20 in India also points to his diplomatic priorities.

DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: It's actually gone beyond just this meeting. The meeting that China held of the BRICS nations bringing in Iran and other countries was an effort to show that China could organize an alternative block to the West. And, of course, Russia is a part of that.

HANCOCKS (voice-over): South Korean intelligence assesses the idea of bilateral military drills between Russia and North Korea was pitched by Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu when he was in Pyongyang in July. Interaction Pyongyang is not generally party to, but could learn a lot from. Military cooperation, which experts believe could then include China.

[02:10:03]

LAKOV: I think it's possible and indeed highly likely, because it will be seen as a kind of symmetric answer to the recent joint military exercises near the Korean Peninsula by the Americans, Japanese and South Koreans.

HANCOCKS (voice-over): Nothing unites more than a common enemy. And Russia, China and North Korea would all like to see an alternative world order. A world where the U.S. is less powerful and where United Nations sanctions have little, if any, bite.

Paula Hancock's CNN Seoul.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BRUNHUBER: And CNN's Steven Jiang is following all this live from Beijing. So Steven, what more can you tell us about the reaction to this meeting from China?

STEVEN JIANG, CNN BEIJING BUREAU CHIEF: Yeah, Kim, you know, Beijing really hasn't said much publicly about this meeting between Kim and Putin, other than reiterating their long-standing talking points about both countries or China's friendly neighbors, and Beijing maintains strong ties with both governments. But when you really think about it, as Paula was saying, all three countries are really naturally bonded over their perceived, this enemy, this strategy by the U.S. and its allies to contain their rightful place, their rise on the global stage.

So that's why we have seen China and Russia working together at the United Nations Security Council where both are permanent members with veto powers to block U.S.-led effort to strengthen to impose sanctions over North Korea's recent missile testing activities. And instead, China and Russia have pointed a finger at the U.S. military's presence and activities in the region to justify North Korea's actions. That's of course something we have seen North Korean and Chinese officials do for Russia when it comes to the war in Ukraine.

But that's also why even though Beijing officials are certainly keeping tabs on what's happening in Russia's far east, they're not that concerned in terms of what Moscow and Pyongyang may say or do, at least publicly, because they don't think they're going to cross China, especially at a time when both governments are going to need China more on the international stage for support politically, economically, when their own regimes become increasingly more isolated from the West.

So that is really the underlying reason for this dynamic here but of course the tables have turned when it comes to North Korea and Russia you showed pictures of Kim Jong-un touring that plane manufacturer that kind of sites and facilities are not chosen coincidentally that is exactly what Kim wants from Russia in terms of military know-how to advance his own military at a time when he particularly needs new spy satellites for the military nuclear-powered submarines as well as intercontinental ballistic missiles all of that he may actually get for the first time now that Russia has the political will to provide such a such a know-how because of what they want so desperately from Kim that of course is tens of millions of ammunition designed for Soviet-era weapons they could use in their war in Ukraine. Kim.

BRUNHUBER: All right. Thanks so much Steven Jiang in Beijing.

Meanwhile Australia is echoing concerns over the summit in Russia, the Australian Foreign Minister stressed that any Russian purchase of arms North Korea would violate multiple U.N. Security Council resolutions and be a sign of desperation from President Putin as Xi urged him to observe the sanctions against Russia.

Meanwhile, Ukraine has long complained it doesn't have enough artillery shells to swat billions in military aid from allies, so coming up we'll take a closer look at how Western weapons factories are trying to fill the gap.

Plus an unprecedented move from the Justice Department indicting the son of a sitting president. More details on the charges that Hunter Biden is facing after the break. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[02:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BRUNHUBER: Ukraine's counteroffensive against Russia may be slow going on land, but its naval operations in the Black Sea have stepped up considerably in recent weeks. Ukraine claims it hit two Russian patrol boats with sea drones early Thursday, a claim partially confirmed by Russia.

New video appears to show a damaged Russian ship that was hit by a Ukrainian strike early Wednesday in the Crimean port of Sevastopol, home of Russia's Black Sea Fleet. The Ukrainian official said the ship, identified as Minsk, was destroyed along with a Russian sub. Now CNN can't independently verify that claim. In one of its boldest strikes yet on the peninsula, Ukraine said it took out a Russian air defense system in western Crimea early Thursday.

And as we've been reporting since the war began, Ukrainian troops are often outmanned and outgunned on the battlefield. And it shows in the artillery duels now playing out in southern Ukraine. CNN's Melissa Bell spent time with one unit on the front line and has our report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Aiming for a specific target, the fury of Ukrainian artillery.

Nothing in this war goes unseen. Not even the Russians walking into this house eight kilometers away. The target spared by a Ukrainian miss.

As they try to move the Zaporizhzhia front line forward, these gunners must now wait for better coordinates from the surveillance drone, even though they too are constantly watched and more often than not outgunned.

UNKNOWN (translated): The Russians are learning. They copy our tactics. As soon as our guys strike, they strike back. They can respond to one of our howitzer with two or three of theirs.

BELL (voice-over): And 20th century artillery is slow to move and far too easy to see with 21st century technology.

MARIAN, GUNNER, 128TH MOUNTAIN ASSAULT BRIGADE (translated): There are a lot of enemy drones flying here. That's why we constantly hide our positions because when the enemy sees us, they start shooting.

BELL (voice-over): Russian surveillance and attack drones are never far. But neither are Ukrainian ones, says Odessa, the battery's commander.

ODESSA, COMMANDER (translated): We use aerial reconnaissance. We watch the flight of the shell and adjust (the gun) to hit target so we waste less ammunition.

BELL (voice-over): Odessa tells his men to lower the gun one notch.

Between drones and artillery, nothing is left to chance.

(on-camera): What they've been targeting is a building just on the other side that has Russian infantry and Russian artillery inside. The drone's been guiding them. They're about to fire for a third time and what they say is that we should then expect incoming Russian artillery in response.

(voice-over): This time it's a hit, not just the building but Russian ammunition and artillery too, which means that the retaliation should be swift and it's time to go as fast as we can. The reply doesn't take long.

UNKNOWN (translated): Now we are targeting their-- Lay Down! Incoming over there.

BELL (on-camera): Because as expected, that incoming artillery followed. We're now having to drive away as quickly as we can. Although what they explain is that it isn't just the incoming artillery. One of the most dangerous things about driving around these parts are the drones.

(voice-over): From his position at the back of the pickup truck, Odessa can hear and see the incoming fire.

[02:20:00]

(on-camera): He's telling us to drive fast because of the incoming artillery. (voice-over): In all, nine artillery rounds were fired back, a measure

of Russian anger and today for these soldiers of Ukrainian success.

UNKNOWN (translated): After you have experienced this, you begin to understand the value of life.

BELL (voice-over): The rush of survival for today at least.

Melissa Bell, CNN, in Southern Ukraine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BRUNHUBER: So as you heard in Melissa's report, the Ukrainian commander said Russians fired two or three shells for every one fired by the Ukrainians. So that's why Kyiv is constantly asking for more.

CNN's Clare Sebastian visited an ammunition trade show in London to find out how weapon suppliers are scrambling to meet Ukraine's demand.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARMIN PAPPERGER, RHEINMETALL CEO: Yes, this is ammunition, but without power you cannot fire this ammunition.

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Amid the high-tech displays at this sprawling international defense expo, the head of Germany's top weapons producer has a much less futuristic battle on his hands to keep up supplies of these NATO-standard 155mm artillery rounds. The lifeblood of Ukraine's defense and now its counter- offensive.

PAPPERGER: We doubled or tripled our resources, our capacities. We are able now to produce next year 600,000 artillery rounds.

SEBASTIAN (voice-over): He says that's more than six times their pre- war output. Not yet enough, though, to clear a multi-billion-dollar order backlog.

PAPPERGER: Three years ago, everything thought we can do everything with air force. It's not possible. Yes, we need strong land forces, and this is exactly what we produce.

SEBASTIAN (on-camera): Our governments, and is the E.U. doing enough? Do you think they woke up quick enough to this production crisis, you could call it.

PAPPERGER: The E.U. made decisions, they said, okay, we want to invest. There are, we are still waiting at the moment for the final decisions.

SEBASTIAN (voice-over): Ukraine can't afford to wait. The government tells us they're firing 5,000 to 6,000 of these rounds a day, but would like to be firing more than 10,000, much more than is currently being produced by its NATO allies. Russia, meanwhile, is firing 40,000 rounds a day, Ukraine says. Manufacturers in the U.S., Ukraine's biggest backer, have also rapidly

scaled up. Not fast enough though to avoid having to sub in controversial cluster munitions this summer.

JAKE SULLIVAN, U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: We would provide cluster munitions because the alternative to providing cluster munitions was them not having enough bullets.

BRIG. GEN. JOHN T. REIM, U.S. ARMY: We were at 14,000. We were at 24,000 today. Next month we'll be at 28,000. So we've doubled our monthly output. you know, that's quite significant. Some of these more longer term, you know, investments, you know, beginning of next year, we'll start realizing additional capacity.

MORTEN BRANDTZAEG, NAMMO CEO: I think we are in in a phase of right now of an industrial war where capacity is the big issue.

SEBASTIAN (voice-over): Norwegian co-owned Nammo, another major ammunition producer in Europe, says it has gone from making just a few thousand rounds a year to a rate of 80,000 a year.

BRANDTZAEG: This is totally changing our company. We are investing at some sites 15 to 20 times more than we normally do in order to build capacity.

SEBASTIAN (on-camera): When you look at what's happening now, with the counteroffensive moving relatively slowly, the fact that it had to start later than planned, as President Zelenskyy says, because weapons deliveries were delayed, does that concern you?

BRANDTZAEG: To me it's a major concern, of course. We see the consequences in the battle we filmed. So I think we all in the Western society have a common responsibility to step up this capacity.

SEBASTIAN (voice-over): Clare Sebastian, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BRUNHUBER: An attorney for Hunter Biden is vowing to fight new gun charges and is blasting Thursday's indictment as politically motivated.

The son of U.S. President Joe Biden was indicted by a special counsel with the Department of Justice on three felony gun charges for allegedly lying on a form while purchasing a gun in 2018 and possessing the gun while he was addicted to crack cocaine. His attorney blames far-right Republicans for improper interference in the process. Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ABBE LOWELL, HUNTER BIDEN'S ATTORNEY: This charge brought today violates the agreement the government made with Hunter Biden. That was a standalone agreement different than this plea. Second, the constitutionality of these charges are very much in doubt. And Hunter owned an unloaded gun for 11 days. There will never have been a charge like this brought in the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[02:25:01]

BRUNHUBER: This is the first time in U.S. history the Justice Department has charged the son of a sitting president. If convicted on all counts, Hunter Biden could face up to 25 years in prison and up to $750,000 in fines.

Members of the United Auto Workers have launched targeted strikes at three U.S. plants after their contracts ran out late Thursday night. Although not a full-blown walkout of all 145,000 union members, it's the first ever simultaneous strike against the big three U.S. automakers, Ford, General Motors and Stellantis. Union members are demanding an immediate 20 percent pay raise plus another 5 percent annually for the next four years.

UAW President Shawn Fain was on the picket line just after midnight in Wayne, Michigan. Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHAWN FAIN, UAW PRESIDENT: These companies got to come to the pump for their workers. They want to call them family when it's easy, but you know what? The proof's in the pudding. And you know what? They haven't been there. They haven't taken care of their workers. We went backwards in the last 16 years, backwards, while the CEOs gave themselves 40 percent pay increases in the last four years alone. Profits have been through the roof. $250 billion in profit in the last decade.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRUNHUBER: Now the strike could have a devastating impact on the U. S. Economy. Ford CEO Jim Farley says giving workers a 40 percent raise would bankrupt his company.

The European Central Bank has raised interest rates to the highest level since the launch of the euro currency over 20 years ago. It increased its benchmark rate by a quarter percentage point to 4 percent. ECB President Christine Lagarde signaled the central bank was likely done with its protracted campaign of rate hikes to tame stubborn inflation. Here she is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTINE LAGARDE, EUROPEAN CENTRAL BANK PRESIDENT: Based on our current assessment, we consider that the key ECB interest rates have reached levels that, maintained for a sufficiently long duration, will make a substantial contribution to the timely return of inflation to our target. Our future decisions will ensure that the key ECB interest rates will be set at sufficiently restrictive levels for as long as necessary.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BRUNHUBER: Earlier this week, the European Commission downgraded its economic forecasts for this year and next. It now expects the EU economy to grow by 0.8 percent in 2023.

New research suggests human actions are pushing the planet into the danger zone, and that drastic impact could be coming. We ask one of the study's authors, if we reached a tipping point, and how bad things could get, that's coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[02:30:36]

KIM BRUNHUBER, CNN NEWSROOM ANCHOR: And welcome back to all of you watching us around the world, I'm Kim Brunhuber, this is CNN NEWSROOM. A new analysis from dozens of scientists finds the conditions on earth may be moving outside the safe operating space for humanity.

The report in the Journal of Science Advances says that human activities have pushed the world into the danger zone for a majority of key indicators of planetary health that could trigger dramatic changes in conditions on earth. Scientists analyzed nine planetary boundaries to find the threshold the world needs to stay within to ensure a stable, livable planet like climate, water and wildlife diversity.

And researchers say safe levels have been breached for six of those boundaries. Johan Rockstrom is director of the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research and coauthor of the report, and he joins me from Stockholm, Sweden. Thank you so much for being here with us.

You know, scientists have been sounding the alarm about this for a while. The previous report, I think 2015, found that the planet passed four boundaries, now we're up to six. Obviously we're going in the wrong direction here. First, explain what passing these boundaries actually means. Is it like passing a tipping point?

JOHAN ROCKSTROM, DIRECTOR, POTSDAM INSTITUTE FOR CLIMATE IMPACT RESEARCH: Great to be with you. So, this is the first time actually we have -- we're so far in science that we can do a full health check for the entire planet, quantifying all the nine systems that, scientifically, are proven to regulate the stability, the health, and the ability of the planet to support humanity.

So that six of the nine are outside of the safe space is really a danger zone, it means that we're approaching tipping points. Science does not suggest that we have crossed a planetary tipping point, but we are coming close. It is what you could call a code red. And the key is, as your introduction showed, it's not only climate.

It is also the living biosphere, biodiversity, freshwater, overloading of nitrogen and phosphorus, air pollutants, which is undermining what we call the resilience, the strength of the planet and its ability to deal with shocks and stresses. So we have a climate crisis and a weak planet, and that's not a very good place to be in. So we need really, really rapid action. BRUNHUBER: Yeah, obviously that is key. A lot of these things are intertwined, so it may be hard to tease out one versus the other. But what are the consequences, potentially, of breaching any of those boundaries then?

ROCKSTROM: Well there are two direct impacts if you think of our long term future, as humanity on earth. Number one is that we've understood that we're in a climate crisis, but what this study shows is that even if we would phase out coal, oil, and gas, and become more or less fossil fuel free, we would still have problems with climate because we have breached the boundaries on land and biodiversity and water and nitrogen and phosphorus, because they will hit us back.

50 percent of the greenhouse gas emissions emitted from fossil fuel burning are in the living biosphere. So we need a strong planet to deal with the climate crisis. That is one insight. The second one is that breaching these boundaries threatens food security, threatens water security, threatens social stability, these are security matters that fundamentally determine the stability of societies and, therefore, issues of conflict, migration, displacement. So if you want to have a prosperous future you better come back into these sustainable, quantified planetary boundaries.

BRUNHUBER: When it comes to public perception, there can be a sense of fatalism, especially when we're talking about climate change, these big intractable problems that the planet is facing. Do you worry that people might think, well, you know, the boundaries, we've sort of passed the safe operating space, too late now. We passed a point of no return, so why bother?

ROCKSTROM: Well, of course, you cannot exclude that risk. But I would argue very differently to say, isn't it fantastic that science has now come so far that we can measure the entire planet? We can quantify the safe fence for human development.

And we also have so much evidence that we can transform ourselves back within this bull's-eye of a safe landing on planet earth if we are successful with the food system transition, towards more healthy, sustainable food that does not destroy natural ecosystems. We would take us back very rapidly. And if we decarbonize the world economy, we basically have ourselves on a positive pathway.

[02:35:08]

So, you know, you don't want to drive in the dark without the lights on and we're putting the lights on the car and it gives us some guardrails on that very mountainous, dangerous road.

BRUNHUBER: You've outlined some very ambitious goals there in terms of trying to keep us within that bull's-eye. You know, we are talking about the planet, international cooperation obviously is key here.

Action on the Ozone layer has actually worked, we pulled ourselves back from one planetary boundary there, but on other issues, progress on these big international forums has been, you know, underwhelming. In just over two months we'll see the next climate change conference. So do you have any faith that we can do enough there to sort of pull back and reverse some of the damage here?

ROCKSTROM: To be honest, this is what worries me most. It's not the scientific diagnostic, it's not as if we don't have the solutions because we do, but it's really that we have a level of -- the highest degree of distrust in the world since the Second World War, when we need collaboration more than ever.

It's quite fantastic that policy in the world listened to science in the 1980s when we were breaching the boundary on depleting the protective stratospheric Ozone layer, a life-threatening, protective shield against dangerous UV radiation. Policy, political leaders listened to science, industry innovated and veered back into the safe space.

We can manage the planet, we actually have so much evidence that this can be solved, but today we don't see any signs of moving in the right direction, particularly on climate. But another success story is the boundary on aerosol loading. Aerosol loading is really air pollutants causing all the smog in the cities, which we now show, scientifically, impacts resemble the large monsoon systems in the world.

But we're getting there to really clean up the cities in the world and get better impacts, benefits for health, but also benefits for the planet. So it's not as if we just cannot do this, we just have to recognize that now we are so intertwined that we need to collectively govern the planet together. It is a huge challenge, but it simply must be addressed.

BRUNHUBER: Absolutely, listen, you paint a very sobering picture, but also make a great argument for action here. Johan Rockstrom, thank you so much for speaking with us, appreciate it.

ROCKSTROM: Thanks.

BRUNHUBER: A major day for British based chip designer Arm, we'll look at its stunning Wall Street debut. And researchers rely on those famed Apollo missions to unlock what's happening on the lunar surface right now. We'll have the details on a moon mystery solved, just ahead. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BRUNHUBER: Wall Street climbed Thursday as investors cheered the market debut of British chip designer Arm. It was the biggest IPO in nearly two years and could pave the way for more to come. CNN's Anna Stewart reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNA STEWART, CNN REPORTER: It was priced at $51 a share, but on its first trading day this stock popped more than 20 percent. Closing the session at nearly $64 a share, which values Arm Holdings at more than $65 billion.

RENE HAAS, CEO, ARM HOLDINGS: It's a great day for the company, a great day for our employees, it's a great day for anyone who has worked for Arm in our 33 year history. It's my first time through an IPO process. Our bankers say if you can price at the high end of the range and go out at that number it's a good thing. And that's where we ended up, so we couldn't be more pleased.

STEWART: It's also good news for Japanese investment firm SoftBank which still owns 90 percent of the company. It bought the chip designer for just $32 million back in 2016, doubling its return in seven years. The investor appetite came despite concerns over Arm's exposure to China, which accounts for around a quarter of its sales via a company called Arm China. Now that is a separate entity which Arm does not control.

And according to the IPO prospectus, it has a history of late payments, which could, quote, "Have a material adverse effect on the business." There is also the political risk. Tensions between Washington and Beijing over chip technology remain high. This was the biggest U.S. listing in nearly two years. Fears over a recession and high interest rates have suppressed valuations and IPO appetite, but Arm's debut could pave the way to a new wave of IPOs. Anna Stewart, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BRUNHUBER: All right, listen, our next story is kind of interesting, you could call it a lunar blast from the past. So, according to a new study, the lunar lander from the Apollo 17 Moon Mission, well it's apparently causing small quakes on the lunar surface. Now, those are known as moonquakes.

The moon has massive temperature swings throughout the day and these temperature swings make the lunar lander expand and contract, which causes small moonquakes. Now researchers have known about this phenomenon for a while, but didn't know why it was happening.

So, how did they figure it out? Well, they analyzed Apollo era data using modern algorithms. All right, thanks so much for joining us. I'm Kim Brunhuber, I'll be back in 15 minutes with more news but WORLD SPORT is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(WORLD SPORT)