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Ukraine Leader Zelenskyy Meets With Biden, Congress; Rupert Murdoch Steps Down As Chairman Of Fox And News Corp.; India Suspends Visas For Canadians As Row Escalates; Azerbaijan Holds Talks On Future Of Armenian Enclave; Rupert Murdoch Steps Down as Fox and News Corp Chairman; Interview with Former Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull; Satellite Images Show Nuclear Test Site Expansions; Thousands Take Dangerous Journey to U.S. Border Daily; King Charles Makes Historic Speech in Franch Senate. Aired 1-2a ET
Aired September 22, 2023 - 01:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[01:00:35]
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ACHOR: Hello, everyone, I'm Michael Holmes. Appreciate your company. Coming up on CNN Newsroom. Volodymyr Zelenskyy goes to Washington. But the Ukrainian president gets the cold shoulder from some U.S. lawmakers on the right, worried about the growing cost of war.
That's the most powerful and polarizing man in media calls it quits sort of. We'll look at what's next for Rupert Murdoch's empire.
And the diplomatic rift between India and Canada gets only worse in the wake of claims of a political assassination.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Live from CNN Center. This is CNN Newsroom with Michael Holmes.
HOLMES: Next up for Volodymyr Zelenskyy, Canada. The Ukrainian President having wrapped up his U.S. visit expressing gratitude for a new $325 million military aid package to help defend against Russian aggression.
Mr. Zelenskyy spent Thursday afternoon at the White House meeting with President Joe Biden in the Oval Office and attending a Cabinet meeting. U.S. president offering his assurance that his administration will support Ukraine for as long as it takes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: That's what this is all about. The future. The future of freedom. America can never we'll never walk away from that. That's why 575 days later, we stand with Ukrainian will continue to stand with you, Mr. President.
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: Thank you, United States of America and Mr. President for the new defense package for Ukraine, a very powerful package. Thanks so much, and it has exactly what our soldiers need.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Mr. Zelenskyy also met with leaders of the U.S. Senate who are united in their support for Kyiv but Republican House Speaker Kevin McCarthy less committal. He would not allow official photographers access to his meeting with the Ukrainian president. Although a source shared this photograph with CNN. More now from CNN, Kayla Tausche at the White House.
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KAYLA TAUSCHE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy, wrapping up a critical visit to Washington including a stop at the White House.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, how important is this visit?
ZELENSKYY: Very important.
TAUSCHE: To sustain the marathon of war funding set to dry up in weeks. The Biden administration sending more weaponry, high Mar systems, anti-armor capabilities, artillery and cluster munitions for money already greenlit by Congress.
BIDEN: Mr. President, welcome back to the White House in the Oval Office.
TAUSCHE: Zelenskyy in his trademark fatigues, sharing his battlefield perspective with the White House Cabinet.
ZELENSKYY: Thank you, United States of America and Mr. President for the new defense package for Ukraine, a very powerful package. Thanks so much. And it has exactly what our soldiers need.
TAUSCHE: And his plans to rebuild with the former Commerce Secretary. But first, he needs tens of billions of dollars to fight. Lawmakers on Capitol Hill still skeptical.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I wish Ukraine well. And I also wish our European allies to do their part.
TAUSCHE: House Speaker Kevin McCarthy refusing to commit to a vote on new funding.
KEVIN MCCARTHY, U.S. HOUSE SPEAKER: Look, we've got to get our, first our fiscal House taken care of here in America.
TAUSCHE: The White House says the weapons are working.
JAKE SULLIVAN, U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: We are providing our helping Ukraine not only make forward progress, but also critically defend the territory that they continue to hold against Russian efforts to overrun it and occupied because Putin has not given up on his fundamental goal, which is to subjugate the country of Ukraine. And we will not permit that to happen and Ukrainian people will not permit that to happen.
TAUSCHE (on camera): President Biden and President Zelenskyy were asked by reporters how confident they were that the U.S. Congress would support that additional aid for Ukraine. President Biden answering on behalf of both leaders said that he was relying on the good judgment of Congress and in his word said there is no alternative. Kayla Tausche, CNN, the White House.
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HOLMES: Cedric Leighton is a CNN military analyst and retired Air Force Colonel. He joins me now from Washington.
[01:05:03]
Always good to see you, sir. Let's look at Mr. Zelenskyy's visit to the UNGA. How would you rate his success or otherwise when it comes to global support for Ukraine in the war?
COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, you know, Michael, it's very interesting, because I think when you look at Zelenskyy speech, he did a magnificent job, not only talking about what Ukraine needed, but he in broad, general terms. But what he also did was he outlined for the international community, where he thought it needed to go when it came to modernizing the institutions so that an invasion, like the one his country has experienced, does not happen to anyone else.
So he's basically looking at strengthening international institutions, making sure that the U.N. does not become like the League of Nations did before World War II, basically a defunct forbidden international body that was worthless. That's what he's trying to avoid for the UN. And I think he did a really good pointing it out.
Now it's up to the rest of the world to follow along, but I don't think they will.
HOLMES: And in the U.S., the House Speaker Kevin McCarthy in many ways beholden to his party far right wing. Of course, he didn't hold a joint session for Mr. Zelenskyy to address Congress, which did happen last year. Even though Zelenskyy asked for one, he's not committed to a vote on a new aid package.
How do you see the state of us support for Ukraine when it comes to money and weapons and the risk of reduced support?
LEIGHTON: I think there is definitely there, Michael. But the minority that is actually very vocal about this has definitely gummed up the works in the U.S. House of Representatives. And that very fact, I think, has created some real problems.
There is still a majority on the side of Ukraine, both in the Republican side, and on the Democratic side. The Democrats are no problem. They will stay with Ukraine for as long as they need to. But when it comes to the Republicans, that support is questionable. And McCarthy is not doing a good job leading that caucus in that direction.
HOLMES: Yes, I wanted to ask you about the battlefield since we got you the sources in Ukraine security service. They talked about this massive strike Wednesday against the military airfield in Crimea. What do you think of that targeting? And overall, what seems to be a real Ukrainian focus on Crimea of light?
LEIGHTON: It seems that the Ukrainians are really looking at Crimea as the soft underbelly of what the Russians have in that area. So that's basically the key to the southern front. And that is something that is actually I in some ways, diverting resources from the Ukrainians in terms of their ability to move along the southern front, but the fact that they have actually made these significant attacks against the airfield in Crimea, and some other attacks of a similar nature that has actually, I think, given the Russians pause, and it has also diverted Russia resources away from their ability to actually defend what they've captured in southern Ukraine.
And of course, it also limits their ability to protect Crimea itself. So unbalanced, I think the Ukrainians are actually making a very interesting move in this party, it remains to be seen how quickly they can capitalize on it.
HOLMES: And Russia hitting in energy infrastructure in Ukraine for the first time in a while, but it was something they did extensively last winter as temperatures cool once again. Can you see Russia doing more of that basically trying to freeze Ukrainians during what are brutal winters?
LEIGHTON: Definitely. What they do is they want to make this war as miserable as possible for the Ukrainian population. But history has proven not only recent history, Ukraine, but overall, history has proven that when a civilian population is adversely impacted in this way, they tend to resist more, they tend not to capitulate, and that's going to be something that the Russians will have to deal with, and they probably won't be with it well.
HOLMES: Always great to get your analysis. Cedric Leighton, thank you so much. Appreciate it.
LEIGHTON: You bet Michael. My pleasure.
HOLMES: Media Baron Rupert Murdoch is stepping down from his business empire. The 92-year-old chairman of Fox Corp. and News Corp. is transitioning away from that leadership role and handing daily control to his eldest son Lachlan.
Rupert Murdoch will take on the new role of Chairman Emeritus with the company stressing he intends to remain fully involved but what that involvement will be remains unclear.
Here's part of a memo written to employees quote, for my entire professional life, I have been engaged daily with news and ideas and that will not change. But the time is right for me to take on different roles, knowing that we have truly talented teams Murdoch built a vast newspaper and magazine empire across the globe
which includes the Wall Street Journal, Britain's The Times newspaper and Sky News in the U.K. and Australia, and News Corp also owns numerous newspapers.
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The 1990s saw the emergence of Fox Television Network in the U.S. as a major competitor that he will always be known for the ratings powerhouse Fox News with its reputation for right wing propaganda, conspiracy theories, bigotry, and outright lies, all of it making billions of dollars.
For more, we're joined by Sara Fischer. She's a CNN media analyst and senior media reporter for Axios. It's great to have you on this. Now, Rupert says he's going to become chairman emeritus, which isn't exactly I'm off to Lake Como, how might he still have a finger on the reins?
SARA FISCHER, CNN MEDIA ANALYST: Well, he says he's going to be involved daily, and he put to bed any rumors that there being issues within his health, saying that he is healthy and ready to be involved very actively. So I think you're still going to have Rupert Murdoch getting his finger on the pulse of what's going on with both of these two companies.
But I don't think he's going to be the face of them. I think he's going to let his son Lachlan, who takes over as chair of both News Corp. and Fox Corp. be the ultimate public figure guiding these companies, especially because Murdoch is 92. And he knows that he needs to create a smart succession plan.
HOLMES: Yes. Before I want to ask you about the succession plan. But first of all, Lachlan, as you mentioned, he's been the anointed successor for a while now, how might he lead the company differently to his father?
FISCHER: Well, politically, I do think that they're aligned. But in terms of what they're passionate about, Rupert is really a news guy, lots of likes innovation and a lot of other areas. You know, he's really set up a strong blockchain department over at Fox, he was the one who helmed, more recently, a lot of the big efforts under News Corp, they acquired a big real estate platform called Move Inc.
He also was the person who was trying to convince investors that these two companies should combine last year. That was an effort that they scrapped in January setting bad timing, but he definitely has a lot of tricks up his sleeve that are his own.
I do think one thing that's worth noting though, about Lachlan, which is a little bit different than Rupert. Lachlan, age 52 is really looking at this landscape from a far more digital perspective than Rupert was. I think it's very important to him that Fox has a foothold in streaming, you know, Fox apart to be a free ad supported streaming platform. I think you'll see more of that under Lachlan's reign. HOLMES: Yes. Yes. Great point. So yes, succession, Lachlan is the leader. But his other children, predominantly, the oldest three is after Lachlan, they have their voting shares. When Rupert dies, could there be a challenge to Lachlan? Could it get messy in that situation?
FISCHER: Absolutely could and that's why I think I'm looking at this as like a new world order. Yes, Lachlan is in charge for now. He's going to continue to carry the torch of this sort of conservative populace editorial viewpoint for now.
But after Rupert dies, and as you mentioned, power of these companies moves to this family trust in which all four children have equal voting share. That's unclear where the direction of the company is going to go. If James were to convince some of his sisters, to perhaps sell the company or take it in a different direction, Lachlan would be outnumbered.
HOLMES: You touched on this one. I think it's a fascinating thing about when we talk about Rupert Murdoch's legacy, his impact not on just the U.S. but the global media landscape. He has been a polarizing figure in many ways in many markets.
FISCHER: He has and that's because he's very ruthless in terms of filmmaking and how he puts his fingers on the scale. Obviously, the very famous 2011 phone hacking scandal in the UK, bringing down news, one of the biggest newspapers that he owned there at the time. He's had a lot of controversies. More recently in the U.S. the big Dominion lawsuit. Around the globe, there was a big defamation lawsuit against Crikey, an Australian digital publisher last summer.
And so all over the world, there are different outlets and industries that are reckoning with Rupert Murdoch's dominance and power. And it just comes to show how big this thing is that he's built. Remember, he inherited just a single newspaper from his father in Australia, and the, you know, over 70 years ago, and now we're at a point where he owns not just newspaper assets, but global digital publishing assets, book publishing, television broadcast, you name it.
HOLMES: It's interesting, too. He always said that he'd go out of the, you know, C suite feed first. Why do you think he chose now? Are you surprised he stepped down before the election? For example. Do you see anything in the timing?
FISCHER: I do. I mean, for one, I just don't think you can sugarcoat the fact that he's 92 years old. No matter how healthy you are, once you're 92, investors are going to be anxious to understand what the succession plan thing is.
[01:15:00]
Two, I think that yes ahead of the election you want to create some stability with both of these companies. Three is the market. Remember how I said earlier this year, they scrapped plans to potentially combine the companies creating shareholder value.
If that's something that they wanted to pursue again, they really need to do it under the strength of a leader who's going to be there for the foreseeable future, not somebody who's 92 and it's unclear what their future holds.
HOLMES: Great analysis. Sarah Fischer, thank you so much. Appreciate it.
FISCHER: Thank you.
HOLMES: Quick break here on the program. When we come back, thousands of ethnic Armenians and Azerbaijan now facing uncertain futures, as Azerbaijan reassert control over the breakaway enclave for the first time in decades. We'll have that story.
Also why India claims Canada should worry about its international reputation and relations between the two countries sour even further.
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HOLMES: Canada's Prime Minister is calling on India to cooperate and allow justice to take its course after the murder of a sick leader on Canadian soil. Justin Trudeau's message from the United Nations comes as diplomatic relations between India and Canada go from bad to worse. Earlier this week he accused the Indian government of possibly playing a role in the assassination.
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JUSTIN TRADEAU, CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER: I can assure you the decision to share these allegations on the floor of the House of Commons Monday morning was not done lightly. It was done with Monday afternoon was done with the utmost seriousness.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
Now this is going why overwhelming India which has now suspended Visa Services for Canadian citizens. CNN's Vedika Sud following all of this live from New Delhi for us. And Vedika, an all time low really in ties between these two nations bring us up to date.
VEDIKA SUD, CNN REPORTER: Oh, absolutely, Michael, and that's pretty evident with it being a top headline here for the entire week, as well as overseas, isn't it? But it's really getting back to us between the two nations and the diplomatic ties, really plummeting over the last five days ever since Justin Trudeau took to the floor of Parliament and made very serious allegations.
Now on Thursday at about 4:00 local time, India's Ministry of External Affairs did speak with journalists in that weekly briefing. The room was packed according to a producer. And there were many questions asked in a 45-minute briefing, more than 40 minutes was just spent and focused on discussions and responses from the spokesperson on the India-Canadian ties.
I really want to read out one response from the spokesperson of India's Ministry of External Affairs, he said and I quote him here, if you're talking about reputational damage if there's a country that needs to look at this, I think it's Canada and it's growing reputation as a place, as a safe haven for terrorists for extremists and for organized crime.
[01:20:07]
I think that's the country that needs to worry about its international reputation.
A strong worded statement there, Michael, wouldn't you say from India and a strong message going out to Canada. Now on Thursday, the White House did respond to the growing concerns over the deteriorating ties between the two countries. Jake Sullivan, the National Security Adviser for the U.S. did respond to questions on this and did not see whether Biden had already spoken to Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi on this issue or if he will be speaking to him. Here's what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SULLIVAN: I'm not going to get into private diplomatic conversations that have either already happened or are going to happen on this topic, only to say that we have been in will be in contact with the Indians at high levels upon this issue.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SUD: Michael, Biden and the administration have repeatedly called on India to cooperate with Canada in these investigations. But on Thursday, India's government made it very clear that there has been no information shared ever since Trudeau made that very, very startling and shocking allegation in parliament in Canada. They haven't heard from the Canadian government and no further information has been shared. Back to you.
HOLMES: All right, Vedika. Thank you. Vedika Sud in New Delhi for us.
Now, just two days after Azerbaijani forces seize control of what was once the independent enclave of Nagorno-Karabakh, representatives from both sides sat down from across each other to discuss how to integrate the enclaves 120,000 ethnic Armenians into Azerbaijan society.
The Enclave has been disputed territory beyond Azerbaijan's control for decades but Azerbaijan put a decisive end do that on Tuesday, with an overwhelming military strike against Armenian separatists, killing at least 200 people.
Six Russian peacekeepers also reported killed. Armenia's Prime Minister explained in a video address why Armenia did not interfere.
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NIKOL PASHINYAN, ARMENIAN PRIME MINISTER (through translator): Many believe that it is tense regional environment, in the face of occasional military conflicts, it is not adequate to talk about peace. This path is not easy, but we must go through it for the sake of independence, for the sake of statehood, for the sake of the future. (END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Now the situation in Nagorno-Karabakh has been deteriorating for months after Azerbaijan, blocked shipments of humanitarian aid into the enclave.
The Middle East very much in focus at the U.N. General Assembly, as Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu will address world leaders in the next day, that follows a warning of sorts from Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, that peace cannot prevail unless his people enjoy their full legitimate national rights. CNN's Hadas Gold reports.
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HADAS GOLD, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT (on camera): The Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas didn't mention the word Saudi Arabia in his speech to the United Nations General Assembly. But it was clear that a possible normalization between Saudi Arabia and Israel was on his mind from the very first line of his speech, take a listen.
MAHMOUD ABBAS, PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY PRESIDENT (through translator): Those who think that peace can prevail in the Middle East without Palestinian people enjoying their full legitimate and national rights would be mistaken.
GOLD: It's interesting to know that that line was actually not in the official transcript that was sent out to reporters. So it may have been added at some point. It seemed to be a direct response to much of the news over the last day or so which is the interview that the crown prince of Saudi Arabia had with Fox News, where he talked about the talks negotiations towards normalization with Israel.
And a big question in this normalization will be what will the Palestinians get or what will happen to the Palestinians and what we hear from the Palestinian Authority President is essentially you cannot have this peace that you seek in the Middle East without a full recognition of a Palestinian state is interesting to hear from the crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman, in that interview, not even mentioned the word necessarily a state for Palestinians, but instead talking about ways that they could ease the lives of Palestinians in this normalization deal.
We do know that the Palestinians have set out certain things that they would like to receive as a result of this normalization deal to supporting to media reports as well as statements we've heard from Palestinian officials and says things like U.S. backing for recognition of Palestinian statehood at the United Nations, which is something that Muhammad Abbas mentioned in his speech.
[01:25:09]
The U.S. reopening its consulate in Jerusalem that was closed by former President Donald Trump and as well as Israeli transfer of certain parts of the West Bank territory into Palestinian control. Now, it is going to be hard for much of these things to get through. This current Israeli government, the most right wing extremist in Israeli history, something that Mahmoud Abbas addressed, calling it a right wing, racist government.
Otherwise, for the rest of his speech, much of it is things that we have heard before from the Palestinian leader things like demanding an edge -- an end to the occupation, asking for full recognition of the State of Palestine talking about what he called a double standards and why is Israel recognized, but the state of Palestine is not recognized.
He also is calling for Israeli said to be held responsible for its actions, saying that there have been so many U.N. resolutions in that very body that he says have not been upheld. But definitely the biggest takeaway from his speech was that first line his sort of direct response to all the discussion about the normalization between Israel and Saudi Arabia, but next step will actually be Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is going to give his speech to the United Nations on Friday morning. Hadas Gold, CNN, Jerusalem.
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HOLMES: Now in his speech before the U.N. General Assembly on Thursday, China's Vice President touched on several thorny issues, including world expansion and Taiwan. Han Zheng said that China would never practice hegemony and expansion. He added that Beijing is committed to an independent foreign policy, and would uphold common values of humanity that include peace, justice, democracy, and freedom.
On the topic of Taiwan and independent and democratic place for decades, the vice president stressed that Beijing will continue to strive for peaceful reunification with Taipei.
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HAN ZHENG, CHINESE VICE PRESIDENT (through translator): China stays committed to safeguarding its sovereignty and territorial integrity. There is but one China in the world. The government of the People's Republic of China is the sole legal government representing the whole of China and Taiwan has been an inalienable part of China's territory since ancient times.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Chinese President Xi Jinping chose not to go to the U.N. meeting. He doesn't usually go. He's expected to attend the opening ceremony of the Asian Games so in the coming hours.
Still to come here on the program, new satellite images obtained by CNN point to an expansion of nuclear test sites by the three biggest nuclear powers in the world. We'll have details when we come back.
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MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back. You're watching CNN NEWSROOM with me, Michael Holmes.
Rupert Murdoch is stepping back from his role as chairman of one of the most powerful and controversial media empires in the world. The 92-year-old says he will still be involved in his new role as chairman emeritus and has full confidence in his eldest son Lachlan who will now take over.
The move sent shockwaves to the media landscape after Murdoch's seven decades in the business.
CNN's Jason Carroll reports.
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BILL HEMMER, FOX NEWS HOST: Rupert Murdoch created all of this.
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Love him or hate him may depend on which side of the political aisle you sit on but there's no denying, Rupert Murdoch is one of the most influential media moguls in history and one of the most powerful forces in right-wing politics.
Now at 92 years of age, the longtime chairman of Fox and News Corporation is stepping down. Starting in November, he'll hold the honorary title of chairman emeritus.
In a statement saying, "Our companies are in robust health as am I. We have every reason to be optimistic about the coming years, I certainly am and plan to be here to participate in them."
The question in media circles age aide, why step down now?
BRIAN STEINBERG, SENIOR TV EDITOR, VARIETY: I wonder if Rupert has said, you know, I need to help my son get settled has the leader, the de facto person in charge. And to do that I needed to step back in terms of outward facing responsibilities.
CARROLL: His elder son Lachlan Murdoch, will take over as chairman charming and will continue as executive chair and chief executive officer of Fox Corp.
Murdoch's right-wing media empire began about 70 years ago in Australia where he turned a small newspaper chain he inherited from his father into the global multibillion dollar media empire of today.
RUPERT MURDOCH, CHAIRMAN, FOX AND NEWS CORP: How delighted I am that we've now reached this moment when we can firmly announce the starting of a Fox News Channel.
CARROLL: That was Murdoch when he launched Fox News in 1996. The conservative 24-hour news channel has grown into a cable ratings juggernaut, but not one without challenges as of late.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Moments ago we learned there is a settlement.
CARROLL: This year Fox News settled with Dominion Voting Systems for more than $787 million in the largest publicly known defamation settlement in U.S. history involving a media company over its airing of 2020 election lies. Fox News also severed ties with right-wing extremists and popular primetime host Tucker Carlson this year.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Trump is continually hunted for any reason.
CARROLL: And faces new competition from pro-trump cable news outlet Newsmax.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a major problem. He's erratic. He's making bad decisions.
CARROLL: The series "Succession" airs on HBO which like CNN is owned by Warner Bros. Discovery and is believed to be loosely-based on the Murdochs and their media empire.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think I'm the best option.
CARROLL: Unlike the series' satirical world, it's clear who the new leader is now that Lachlan Murdoch has been named sole chairman.
In a statement, he thanked his father for his vision, his pioneering spirit, his steadfast determination and enduring legacy. Media insiders say after so many years of building an empire, it's unlikely stepping down means the elder Murdoch will completely step away from exerting his influence.
CAITLIN HUSTON, BUSINESS WRITER, HOLLYWOOD REPORTER: From the letter that he sent to -- that Rupert sent to employees, it sounds like he's still going to be incredibly involved, maybe not in the logistics but least like ideologically it sounds like.
CARROLL: And in that letter to employees -- I have a copy of it here -- Rupert Murdoch also said that expect for him to offer his advice, ideas and thoughts from time to time, and also expect him to see him still in the office on late Friday afternoons.
Jason Carroll, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: To discuss more, former Australian prime minister Malcolm Turnbull joins me now live from Sydney. Good to see you, Prime minister. You called Rupert Murdoch more dangerous to American democracy than Vladimir Putin, that no one alive has done more to divide America then he.
What are your thoughts as he steps away or sort of steps away?
MALCOLM TURNBULL, FORMER AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER: Yes. Well, sort of steps away. I think it's the right way to describe it.
Well look, you know, people are looking at his legacy but it is a legacy of doing enormous damage to the democratic countries in which he is operated, and in particular the United States.
[01:34:55] TURNBULL: Without Fox News, you would not have had the anger-tainment media ecosystem that created the environment of course with its amplification of Trump's big lie about the 2020 election that enabled the January 6th insurrection to occur.
So you know, you've got to ask yourself, is America more divided, more angry, more polarized today and it was before Fox News? And the answer clearly is yes.
HOLMES: You've known Lachlan Murdoch for many years. I know that you see him as more right-wing, more extreme, more ideological than his father. How then do you think Lachlan Murdoch might lead the company?
TURNBULL: Well, I think Lachlan in my experience in most people unknown would agree with this, I think, is more ideological. He's more consistently right-wing, you know, in that sense. And so Fox News is not like James Murdoch, who you know, is appalled by what his father media empire is doing as you know resigned from the board.
You know, Lachlan is all in. He's got a formula that does enormous damage to the countries in which it operates, but it's also one of is enormously profitable.
And so I'm sure that Lachlan will continue with it. And, you know, I also have no doubt that America's chairman Rupert Murdoch will be very closely involved for a very long time.
His mother nearly made it to 104 so Rupert is not immortal as he once said he was but he's certainly got very good genes.
HOLMES: As we said, you're the former Australian prime minister. How broad has the Murdoch political influence been in Australia? And I lived through that living there and in the United Kingdom. I lived through it there as well.
And now in the UNITED STATES. How powerful and what impact in a global sense in terms of political power and influence?
TURNBULL: Well, Murdoch's media is the loudest voice in the Australian media. It dominates newspaper circulation around the country and of course, he's by far the largest share of newspapers in circulation and of course he has Sky News which is effectively a local version of Fox News in Australia.
His influence in the United States is gigantic particularly through Fox News and he has enormous influence in the U.K. I mean Nigel Faraj, you know, the UKIP found said today kid said today that Brexit could not have occurred without Rupert Murdoch's support.
So you know, that was -- that's done devastating damage to the British economy, Brexit. But it was typical of the kind of populist agenda that Murdoch gets behind.
Trump who he, is appalled by now he claims would not have been president without Murdoch's support. I've been with Trump -- I've never seen a politician sycophantic to a media (INAUDIBLE) as Trump was to Murdoch.
Murdoch knew Donald Trump really well. He knew that he wasn't fit to be president but he put him there. He put him there and now, you know, and now, you know, he apparently regrets it. His business model depends on an audience that is devoted to Donald Trump.
So all of this is being done in the pursuit of money. I mean lies about the election, all in the pursuit of money. And who pays the price? Well, you know, our democracies pay the price.
HOLMES: It's power as well as money, isn't it? I mean they are in some ways a political party except that the family or the members and no one votes for them. I think you said they created a market, they're crazy.
How lasting do think the Murdoch influence will be, is much of it undoable?
TURNBULL: Well, that's a really good question and you've got to say it will be long-lasting and you've got to hope that it can be undone. I mean we have got to get our politics back to the center. We've got so many gigantic challenges. We've got to be able to work together instead of going after each other, instead of thinking our enemies are, you know, living across the street from us.
These are gigantic challenges -- global warning being, you know, the most obvious and existential.
[01:39:41]
TURNBULL: I think in Australia, you know, which obviously we're both very familiar with, we have been to some extent insulated from the Murdoch media sort of ecosystem because we have compulsory voting, we have preferential or rank choice voting and our electorates, our districts in our parliament are not gerrymandered.
And so you know, there is our politics despite what Murdoch's agenda pushes, our politics is conducted more at the center. And we also have, of course, a national broadcaster, the ABC like the British BBC which is, you know, has a duty to play it right down the middle and stick to the facts.
HOLMES: All righ.t Great to speak with you. Former Australian prime minister Malcolm Turnbull there in Sydney. Really appreciate you making the time.
TURNBULL: Thanks so much.
HOLMES: Now according to new satellite images obtained by CNN, three of the world's biggest nuclear powers have recently constructed new facilities and dug new tunnels at their test sites.
CNN's Ivan Watson is in Hong Kong with more on what it could all mean.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's no secret that there is growing geopolitical tension between the U.S., and Russia and China. All three powers routinely conduct military exercises, clearly trying to demonstrate their strength to each other. And it stands to reason that eventually this competition would start to bleed into an area that I think many people haven't really thought about since the end of the Cold War. And that is their nuclear arsenal.
CNN has gotten an exclusive look at the serious investments that all three governments -- China, Russia, and the U.S. -- have put into their nuclear weapons testing sites.
The world's three most powerful militaries -- the U.S., Russia and China -- have all been expanding their nuclear testing sites in recent years.
The evidence revealed in these commercial satellite images obtained exclusively by CNN.
These are the Russian, Chinese and American nuclear testing sites. Novaya Zamiya, a Russian archipelago in the Arctic Ocean; Lop Nur, a dried up salt lake in China's Xinjiang region; and the Nevada National Security site in a desert northwest of Las Vegas.
Images from each location show new tunnels, roads and storage facilities constructed within the last five years.
Nuclear nonproliferation expert Jefferey Lewis first collected and analyzed these images.
JEFFEREY LEWIS, NUCLEAR NONPROLIFERATION EXPERT: One big factor for both the United States but also Russia and China is a desire to make sure that the nuclear weapons that they designed and tested in the 1980s and 1990s still work.
CEDRICK LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: All three countries -- Russia, China and the United States -- have invested a great deal of time, effort and money in not only modernizing their nuclear arsenals but also in preparing the types of activities that would be required for a test.
WATSON: While there is no evidence of an imminent test, Russia's Novaya Zamiya site did see a burst of new construction over the last two years. On the one-year anniversary of his full-scale invasion of Ukraine, Russian President Vladimir Putin declared Russia's readiness to conduct nuclear tests.
VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT: Some figures in Washington, who know this for a fact, are already thinking about the possibility of a natural test on their nuclear weapons. If the U.S. conducts tests, we will do so to.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Welcome to you U1A.
WATSON: This time lapse reveals five years of above ground expansion of the U1A complex, an underground facility at the testing site in Nevada.
A spokesperson from the U.S. National Nuclear Security Administration confirmed to CNN that it is quote, "recapitalizing infrastructure and scientific capabilities at the U1A complex," adding, "The United States has not conducted a nuclear explosive test since 1992 and has no plans to do so."
Since the end of above ground testing, governments have used deep tunnels for their nuclear tests. Satellite images reveal a new fifth tunnel carved out at China's Lop Nur testing site, along with a growing pile of excavated debris.
Washington accuses China of dramatically expanding its nuclear arsenal.
MICHAEL CHASE, U.S. DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF DEFENSE FOR CHINA: We project out to 2035 when we expect that they will want to have about 1,500 nuclear weapons.
WATSON: And a statement to CNN, China's foreign ministry also denied plans to test saying quote, "This kind of report only speaks on hearsay evidence and hypes up China's nuclear threat for no reason."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fire.
WATSON: The specter of a new nuclear test would shatter restraint exhibited by the U.S., China and Russia ever since the 1990s.
[01:44:49]
LEWIS: If you are a farmer in Ohio, or a shopkeeper in Shanghai, the threat of nuclear testing isn't the tests themselves. It's the fact the you are essentially agreeing to pay vast sums of money in an arms race that no one can win but we can all lose.
WATSON: As far as we know, not one of the three countries has conducted a full-scale nuclear weapons test since the 1990s. Most recently that would be China with an underground test conducted in 1996.
The U.S. has been conducting for years tests that it calls sub- critical tests. And they are meant to ensure the reliability of existing nuclear weapons, some of which have been around for some 30 years, longer than many people might keep a car in their garage.
But you know, investing so heavily in these nuclear weapons testing facilities does not bode well in this environment of growing geopolitical tension and mutual suspicion.
Ivan Watson, CNN -- Hong Kong.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: A dramatic new surge of thousands of migrants crossing the Mexican border illegally into the U.S. every day and it is causing tension between federal and state authorities in border towns. We'll have a report from Texas after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: Iran is investigating a fire that broke out at a defense ministry warehouse. Iranian state media posting these images showing columns of black smoke rising from a building near Tehran, and said the warehouse was used to make batteries.
State media reports the fire has been contained and the cause is under investigation.
The mayor of a Texas border town says the Biden administration has been silent as a new surge of migrants crosses into the U.S. illegally from Mexico. He says about 5,000 people have crossed the border in the last few days in his town of Eagle Pass, Texas.
That's where we find our CNN's Ed Lavandera.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Dozens of migrants stand in the Rio Grande, moments after forming a human chain to cross the river and through layers of razor wire trying to reach Eagle Pass Texas.
They tell me they're form Venezuela. Among them a woman and her toddler. The danger for them is real. Two people including a three- year-old boy have drowned this week after being swept away in the river current.
But after a nearly 3,000-mile journey, they accept the risk.
How long are you going to wait here.
So they're going to wait here until they let them in.
The migrants tell us they've been robbed and attacked on the Mexican side of the river. After hours of waiting, the migrants figure out a way to crawl under the razor wire. In a surreal scene, one man instantly apologized.
[01:49:48]
LAVANDERA: They wanted to apologize for crossing illegally into the U.S. and they're begging and asking for mercy. But they understand that they're coming from a country where they are persecuted and they feel like if they were to be returned home, they would be killed.
The mass influx of migrants is causing tension between federal and state authorities. Texas Governor Greg Abbott posted this video accusing border agents of cutting razor wire at an undisclosed location in Eagle Pass, allowing trapped migrants to turn themselves in. DHS officials refused to comment on the governor's allegation.
On Wednesday, about 3,000 migrants crossed in Eagle Pass alone. SHERIFF TOM SCHMERBER, MAVERICK COUNTY, TEXAS: It's something very
strange. Never thought I was going to see something like this in Eagle Pass, Texas.
LAVANDERA: The local sheriff tells us smugglers are preying on the hopes of these migrants, offering to move them to other cities if they can get into the U.S.
SCHMERBER: I know this because we have smugglers, some of them from Houston, Florida, Austin everywhere to pick up these immigrants. There's a connection there.
LAVANDERA: Reasons for the surge vary but migrants we spoke to say they've grown frustrated with the CBP One app that processes formal applications, many waiting months on the Mexican side for an appointment.
These two men from Venezuela say they crossed illegally because they are desperate and have been waiting three months for the appointment to request asylum.
"It's a risk we had to take", he tells me. "We know there's a chance we get deported but it's in God's hands."
Right now the question that local officials all along the U.S. southern border have, is whether or not this latest surge of migrants is an anomaly, a temporary problem, or is it a sign of a more sustained problem that they will be dealing with for weeks if not months ahead.
Right now, no one really seems to have a clear answer.
Ed Lavandera, CNN -- Eagle Pass, Texas.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: King Charles of the United Kingdom's makes history speaking in the French Senate. His pledge to France coming up, here on CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: A big legal win for Brazil's indigenous people in a Supreme Court decision on a land dispute against the powerful farm lobby group.
Native people celebrating there after the high court overwhelmingly voted against using a cut-off date that would've limited indigenous people from claiming ancestral lands unless they have lived on that land in 1998 when Brazil passed its constitution.
Indigenous advocates say it was an attempt to legalize the theft of millions of hectares of indigenous land. The group representing farmers says it will now push Congress to pass a bill to limit new claims by native communities. In India, a landmark bill is now on the books that ensures more women
are in government. The measure sets aside a third of the seats in India's lower house and state assemblies for women.
215 lawmakers in the country's upper house voted in favor of the bill on Thursday. Women make up nearly half of India's 950 million registered voters, but only 50 percent of lawmakers in parliament and 10 percent of state assembly.
India's prime minister calling the bill quote "an historic moment in our country's democratic journey".
[01:54:47]
HOLMES: The U.K.'s King Charles III made history on Thursday, becoming the first British monarch to make a speech from the French Senate chamber.
Parliamentarians giving the 74-year-old sovereign a warm welcome, 231 years to the day since France abolished its own monarchy and established a republic.
CNN royal correspondent Max Foster with more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT: A very rare honor indeed for any head of state in France and the first for a British monarch. King Charles was invited to address the floor of the French Senate.
He spoke movingly about his mother and the tributes that came from France following her death. And he used very pointed language as well about the war in Ukraine and how the West needs to protect democratic values. These are values shared by Britain and France.
KING CHARLES III, BRITISH MONARCH (through translator): Together we stand in resolute solidarity with the Ukrainian people. Together we are steadfast in our determination Ukraine will triumph and that our cherished freedoms will prevail.
FOSTER: The King then came to the sports hall in Saint-Denis to meet some quite noisy kids involved in projects run by charities to help them get involved in sports. He had a go himself as well. He also met some Paris Saint Germain players.
Time for a stroll around the market named after his mother, the late queen, and the current queen, Queen Camilla worked with the first lady of France to launch a literary price (ph) as well. She spoke French in a speech as well.
Then they had a chance to go to the Notre Dame Cathedral to see the painstaking work carried out by France trying to rebuild that famous church -- world famous church, an icon here in France which sadly burned down a few years ago.
So a chance for the king and queen to get to know France a bit better but also to really emphasize those ties between two countries that had a pretty tense political relationship in recent years. The organizers seem pretty happy with the way it's all gone.
Max Foster, CNN -- Saint-Denis, France.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: I'm Michael Holmes. Thanks for spending part of your day with me.
CNN NEWSROOM continues with my friend and colleague Kim Brunhuber right after this.
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