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Studios, Writers In Final Phase Of Negotiations To End Strike; Federal Government Starts Preparing For Possible Shutdown; Sen. Menendez Rejects Calls From Fellow Democrats To Resign; One-on-One With Actor & Filmmaker Sean Penn; Sean Penn Talks New Ukraine Documentary "Superpower"; Sources: Talks To End Writers Strike in "Final Phase." Aired 6-7p ET

Aired September 23, 2023 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.

Good evening.

We are following some breaking news at this hour. Hollywood studios and writers, we are told, are in the final phase of negotiations to end the strikes.

CNN's Camila Bernal joins me now from Los Angeles.

Camila, what do you know?

CAMILA BERNAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Jim, this is a big deal. I mean, people have been on strike for almost five months, and so what we're learning from my colleague, Oliver Darcy and his sources is that they're in the final stages of negotiating that deal, and so it is essentially the final phase. They are at the table today.

We learned that the big bosses of the studios, they were not at the table, so really, it's just the negotiators now working through those final details before they can strike a deal and sources telling my colleague, Oliver Darcy, that it could happen by the end of the weekend.

So really, it could happen at any point. There are so many people here in Los Angeles and really, across the country who are waiting for this deal to go back to work. Many people who have struggled for months to pay their rent or put food on the table, because they have not been able to work due to the strike.

I mean, there are many things that they're trying to negotiate, among them pay, the residuals when it comes to streaming, and also artificial intelligence. That has been extremely difficult because, really, we don't know a lot about artificial intelligence and these writers say they want to be the ones writing the scripts and not machines.

Again, this has had a huge impact everywhere in the nation. And estimates are that the economic impact is more than $5 billion. So a deal is essentially a very big deal because many, many people are waiting for this -- Jim.

ACOSTA: Absolutely. And it's really just paralyzed things in Hollywood, in LA for so many months now.

Camila Bernal, we know you'll stay on top of it. If there are any updates, we'll bring it back in.

Camila, thank you very much.

Back here in Washington, there is a new deadline looming, and we're counting down to one week from today.

Next Saturday, the federal government will face a midnight shutdown unless some funding bill can be passed in Congress and signed by the president. But with every passing hour, a resolution seems more and more unlikely.

Now federal agencies have been told to begin their formal process of preparing for a government shutdown. That means that millions of federal workers and military personnel are getting ready, too. Their paychecks may be cut off for weeks.

Today, House Speaker Kevin McCarthy conceded he has to win over some Republican hardliners who continue to defy him, but he says he is hopeful that they will fall in line and pass some kind of a stopgap spending measure to prevent the shutdown. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): I think when it gets crunch time, people will finally that have been holding off all this time, blaming everybody else will finally, hopefully move off because shutting down and having border agents not be paid, your Coast Guard not be paid, I don't see how that's a victory.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: And with so much at stake at home and overseas, we turn to former Defense Secretary, former White House chief-of-staff, Leon Panetta.

Leon, great to see as always, you know, you were the chief-of-staff for Bill Clinton when there were some government shutdowns back in the 90s. So I think you're a good person to go to on this.

You know, you know that Speaker Kevin McCarthy has said that some of his hardliners in his own party want to "burn the place down," which is not something you typically hear from a House Speaker, talking about members of his own conference.

How do you negotiate in a situation like this? And if you're ever at the White House, do you have to just sort of sit back and watch this unfold? There's not a whole lot you could do if members of McCarthy's own party are bucking him. LEON PANETTA, FORMER US DEFENSE SECRETARY: No, listen, the ball is in

Speaker McCarthy and the Republicans' lap right now to decide what happens. And what they have to be careful of is making exactly the same mistake that Newt Gingrich made when he was Speaker and Bill Clinton was president.

Gingrich continued to try to get his way, refused to negotiate and compromise on a budget issue with the president and ultimately shut the government down for about five days in November. They thought they could work something out, didn't happen, and then they shut it down again in December for 21 days.

And the result of that was that the Republicans were blamed for the shutdown. And what it did, frankly, was it gave Bill Clinton what he needed was the issue of saying that we stand for protecting the United States, protecting America and the Republicans stand for tearing it down. And with that, he won re-election.

So, I think the Republicans are on the verge of making the same mistake that Gingrich made.

[18:05:09]

ACOSTA: And if you're trying to manage the situation down at the border and Border agents aren't getting paid, because there's a government shutdown, not to mention, you know, military personnel around the world not getting paid or having to wait for their paychecks to come in because of this, that makes everything much more difficult for the administration, especially down at the border, which is dealing with such a big influx of migrants right now.

How might that become an even bigger problem if this shutdown happens?

PANETTA: Now, this is not a good moment for a shutdown of the federal government. Number one, we are trying to support with weapons and military support, Ukraine in a war against Russia. We're trying to deal with other danger points in the world. We're trying to deal with a crisis on the border with immigrants. We're trying to be able to deal with problems in the economy because of the strikes that are taking place.

If you have a shutdown, it's going to hurt the economy that much more, and so I think both the president and the leadership in the Congress have to focus on doing what's right for the country, which is passing a continuing resolution, fund the government, and then move on to negotiate on the budget in the future.

ACOSTA: And one quick final thing before I move on to Ukraine, if you're advising the president right now, do you advise him to get involved or to sit back and let the Republicans duke this out?

PANETTA: Well, I think the Speaker knows that the president is always available, if he really wants to turn to the president, but right now, McCarthy is trying to do this on his own.

His problem, though, is he is trying to do it through appeasing a group of nuts on his side of the aisle. And, you know, my experience is that when Speakers or any leaders for that matter, start appeasing their enemies in one way or another, they weaken their own position and make it even tougher to be able to find a solution.

So I think he's in a tight spot right now, and I'm not sure he's going to be able to find a way out.

ACOSTA: And Secretary Panetta, I want to shift to Ukraine. Today, the UN journalist asked Russia's Foreign Minister, Sergey Lavrov, at what point the US and other Western countries become directly involved in war against Russia versus a proxy war. Obviously, you know, some people might have problems with that question. But let's listen to what Sergey Lavrov had to say about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SERGEY LAVROV, RUSSIAN FOREIGN MINISTER (through translator): So you can call this whatever you want to call this, but they are directly at war with us. We call this a hybrid war, but that doesn't change the reality.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: What do you make of that comment that he's saying that they're directly at war with us? Western nations?

PANETTA: Well, you know, I think Lavrov is basically a mouthpiece for Putin, he always has been, and he continues to be and what he is trying to do is to put the blame, not on Russia, not on his boss, Putin, but putting his blame on the United States and putting his blame on the Ukraine.

And so by basically saying that everybody is at war with Russia, he is basically blaming everybody else, but Putin and Russia for what's happened in Ukraine. And that's just something we have to understand, it takes us nowhere with regards to trying to resolve this war.

ACOSTA: And Mr. Secretary, I have to get your take on what's going on with these military nominations. This week, the Senate voted to approve three military nominations in the face of Senator Tommy Tuberville's continued blockade, including the new head of the Joint Chiefs-of-Staff, but as you know, more than 300 nominations are still in limbo.

You know, we asked General Wesley Clark, we could go about this and he was saying it was time for somebody somewhere to start playing hardball with Senator Tommy Tuberville. What is your sense as to how you get through this logjam and how this can be overcome? Or does everybody just have to, I guess, placate Tuberville while he backs himself into a corner on this?

PANETTA: Well, he has already backed himself into a corner. Mitch McConnell doesn't support what he's doing. Most of the Republicans don't support what he's doing. The Democrats certainly don't support what he's doing, but he is kind of, you know, like we see a lot in the Congress these days, are individuals that kind of do their own thing and to hell with the country.

And what he is doing is shameful. He's really hurting the military and our ability to have a command structure in the military so yeah I think it is time to get tough with this He's really hurting the military and our ability to have a command structure in the military.

[18:10:07]

So yes, I think it is time to get tough with this guy. I think Chuck Schumer did the right thing to try to push through at least, the approval of the chiefs.

In addition to that, you know, I think a clear signal needs to be sent to this guy that the longer he continues, the more Defense money he's going to lose for his home state as a result of what he's doing. Period.

ACOSTA: All right and does it shock you at all to this day, I mean, that a senator can have this kind of power? I mean, one senator can hold up all of these nominations. I just have to think of you are the family members of some of these senior military officers waiting to move somewhere and that is all being held up, one senator can do that, isn't that all strange?

PANETTA: Well, we're seeing a lot of that in Washington these days as individuals play their own game, and forget about the country and forget about the importance of the nation, and I think this is just another example of irresponsible leadership.

ACOSTA: All right, Secretary Leon Panetta, always appreciate your time. Thanks very much.

PANETTA: Good to be with you, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right, good to be with you.

Coming up, we are continuing to follow the breaking news, writers and studios are in the final phase of negotiations to end the months' long strike.

And later, my conversation with actor, Sean Penn about his documentary on Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy. His views on US aid, Vladimir Putin, and the 2024 Republican field. You're going to want to stay tuned to listen to what he has to say about that.

He weighs in on Donald Trump, Vivek Ramaswamy and more. Stay with us, you're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:15:54]

ACOSTA: Embattled New Jersey Democratic senator, Bob Menendez is facing more calls to resign following his indictment on federal bribery charges. The Democrat and his wife are accused of accepting hundreds of thousands of dollars in bribes including mortgage payments, a luxury car, cash, and even bars of gold, both deny the allegations.

But Pennsylvania Democratic senator, John Fetterman just joined a list of -- it is a growing list of lawmakers calling on Menendez to resign. Fetterman is the first senator to do so and joining me now to discuss, conservative lawyer, George Conway.

George, what do you make of all this trouble that Bob Menendez appears to be in right now? And the fact that he is not -- he is digging in his heels. He is not stepping down, it sounds like.

GEORGE CONWAY, WASHINGTON POST CONTRIBUTING COLUMNIST: Well, it is just stunning.

I mean, the allegations in this indictment are just -- it's just raw corruption of this sort. I mean, it's -- I mean, it's classic kind of New Jersey kind of corruption, but with a foreign policy overlay.

I mean, the man apparently was selling secret information about -- of the government's to representatives of the Egyptian government, and that's not a good thing for the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, and it is just stunning.

I mean, the gold bars. I mean, even -- and the cash in the jacket in his closet, I mean, even Tony Soprano, had sense enough to bury the cash in the backyard. I mean, it's just crazy.

ACOSTA: And how difficult is going to be for Menendez to fight off these charges? And I suppose getting back to the political question, his decision to really reject these calls from fellow Democrats to resign, and I suppose, you know, we were talking about this with others earlier on in the program, I suppose there's this new school of thought here in Washington. In the olden days, something like this might compel a senator or a member of Congress to resign.

But these days, with Trump and George Santos and others digging in and riding it out, sometimes is the strategy and it sounds like Bob Menendez may be going down that road.

CONWAY: Absolutely. He is obviously going to try to stick it out, and that is something unfortunately, what we've seen in recent years, although on the other hand, someone who is willing to sell his office in the way that he has alleged to have done in the indictment, is not going to be someone who's going to be public spirited when it comes to resigning that office.

So in that sense, it's not terribly surprising.

ACOSTA: And I want to switch gears and ask you about the sexual harassment allegations against Rudy Giuliani. Getting over to some of these accusations flying around in Trump World.

In her new book, former Trump White House aide, Cassidy Hutchinson claims Giuliani groped her backstage during the January 6 rally at The Ellipse here in Washington. Giuliani's political adviser says it's a disgusting lie. But I mean, this just adds to the growing list of problems for Rudy Giuliani. It's stunning. CONWAY: Yes, it is absolutely stunning. This man's fall from grace

from the time from September 11th to today just continues in an amazing freefall, and his problem here is, he has no credibility.

I mean, we saw the crazy stunt he pulled in the Borat movie where he's is trying to make nice in some way to a girl who is a woman who is basically a third of his age. And then you have -- you know, he is a man with very little credibility, and there's no -- and Cassidy Hutchinson has no reason to lie about this. And so, you know, it's just another blow to his credibility, but he doesn't really have any anymore.

ACOSTA: But it's another example even though we feel like we know just about everything you can know about the events that took place on and around January 6, that more and more disturbing allegations come out.

And I mean, one of the other things that Hutchinson said is that John Eastman was there when this happened with Giuliani, when it allegedly happened with Rudy Giuliani, he was flashing a leering grin.

CONWAY: Yes. No, it's just absolutely disgusting. It makes your skin crawl and we've just seen that pattern of behavior by these highly narcissistic individuals who think that they -- you know, they own everybody around them, particularly the women.

[18:20:11]

And you know, thank goodness for Cassidy Hutchinson and the other women who are speaking out not only about this type of thing, but about the overall abuses and corruption in the Trump administration.

ACOSTA: Yes. George Conway, always great to talk to you. Thank you very much for your time. We'll have you back soon, if you'll allow it.

Thanks so much. Appreciate it.

CONWAY: Thank you.

ACOSTA: Good to see you, George.

Coming up, my one-on-one conversation with Sean Penn about his documentary on Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, why he took on the project and more. That's coming up next. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: Russia's top diplomat, Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov is once again rejecting Ukraine's peace plan, calling it "unrealistic."

Speaking in New York, Lavrov says the plan, which includes not ceding any territory to Russia is just not feasible. He also accused the US of being directly at war with Russia.

[18:25:12] This comes just one day after a missile attack on Russia's Black Sea

Fleet headquarters in occupied Crimea. Ukrainian forces claim the strike killed dozens of Russian troops.

Russia's war on Ukraine is central to a new documentary by actor and filmmaker, Sean Penn. It's called "Superpower."

I got a chance to sit down with Sean to discuss the film and much more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA: And joining us now is the director and producer of "Superpower," Sean Penn.

Sean, great to see you again. Thanks as always for being here.

SEAN PENN, DIRECTOR AND PRODUCER, "SUPERPOWER": Great to be here, Jim.

ACOSTA: I guess, I wanted to start off the conversation with this was not the film you expected to make. In the movie, you see how you were planning to talk to Zelenskyy about how he was this TV star who became president, kind of a lighthearted film about, you know, this guy was almost an accidental president of Ukraine to some extent and it turned into something else. It became something else.

PENN: Yes, it sure did.

ACOSTA: Yes.

PENN: Yes, it really was -- I'm still kind of processing the trail of this thing, because what -- remember that period of time where for most of us, what we knew about Ukraine was that there was a comedic actor who had a very well-known character as a history teacher, that would become a precedent in this comedy, "Servant of the People."

And then there was the very controversial phone call with President Trump. And where there was an attempt at puppeteering Zelenskyy in trade, weapons for dirt on an opponent.

And so that was enough to sort of get us looking at what's going on in Ukraine, because this president was a very engaging guy. He seemed bright, he seemed like he was beginning to show signs of adapting into his position, and so, let's follow the trail of this, if he is willing.

We got in touch with him through an intermediary, and then COVID happened. So our meeting with him was on Zoom. Travel restrictions disallowed us from visiting, particularly with a head of state for his health security, and so the can was kicked down the road.

By the time we got to Ukraine, the first trip, it was November 2021 and the drums were fatally beating for this Russian buildup.

And so our script as it were, was being changed by what became 150,000 interventionary Russian troops at the border. ACOSTA: Yes. And you were there. I mean, you see this in the film, you

were there when the Russians start bombing, when they invade you, in an attempt to decapitate the leadership of Ukraine and take out Zelenskyy.

PENN: Yes.

ACOSTA: Walk us through that.

PENN: So we I had always said to him, that I didn't want him to commit to participating in the documentary because of the kind of rapport I hoped to have with him, it would be in a particularly unguarded one. I felt that you couldn't establish that sort of trust by Zoom or any other electronic kind of, but we'd have to be in a room together.

So the idea was our first meeting, we won't bring cameras. We'll see if we, you know, jive. And we got in a room, I felt very connected to him. Very warm, very bright guy, very welcoming. And he felt enough so that we determined we'll start shooting tomorrow.

Now that by that time, that's February 23, 2022. We went back to the hotel, getting our focus together to interview the president on camera and the next day, I think when we laid our heads down to get some sleep, the rockets started coming in and the country was at war.

He was 10 feet away becoming a wartime president and we got a call the next morning from the president's office saying he was going to honor the meeting the next day, and we start shooting on that first day of the invasion.

ACOSTA: Yes, and you look back at the first few days of the war, it almost feels like several years ago instead of --

PENN: Yes.

ACOSTA: Just last year, and you got to see face-to-face Zelenskyy becoming this wartime president.

PENN: Yes.

ACOSTA: And the toll that it was taking on him and his family. What was it like?

PENN: Well, at that point, I would say, we were considering all of what that might be in terms of the toll that it would take on him, but what we saw and it wasn't only me and to this day, I would say it was not a projection that one would be inclined to do that, I suppose, seeing his calm and focus, is that one felt they were in the presence of someone who was born to lead in this existential fight against the nuclear superpower, and not something I'd ever seen before, a real change of that.

[18:30:27]

And I wouldn't expect that he would have known entirely how his, I guess, moment of compassion and solidarity with his own people was going to deliver him into embodying this kind of leader, but it was a big shift overnight.

ACOSTA: Yes. And I get the sense from looking at, I guess, your interactions with him, watching the film, that for you it almost sounds like a cliche, but it's personal for you and you had this connection with Zelenskyy, and I'm just wondering, do you know what that was? Is it because it was sort of actor to actor? What was it? Why did you have this connection with him in these interactions that you had?

PENN: Well, he had - I knew that he - from the original Zoom conversations, I knew that he had been aware of me as a Ukrainian actor, he had been aware of me as an American actor for many years before we met and so he had a little curiosity about me as I did about him. And I think also, in most professions, there can be a kind of wink of kindred spirit, yes.

I wouldn't go further than that, because it was going to be a very short time. He was going to be very busy (inaudible) ...

ACOSTA: Yes. But he makes time for you.

PENN: He makes the time and then - and because I knew that the time couldn't be long in those initial days, I think that I just gave myself over to taking him in as one would someone that's very close to them, and it felt like perhaps a mistake by the time we parted ways because he was the target, and I felt like why the hell did I just let myself grow this very quick affection for this guy literally because I might not ever see him again.

ACOSTA: And in the film, you go to bombed out apartment buildings, you're touring the destruction. Did this surprise you, did the level of destruction, the level of brutality, the - just the unmitigated violence that was just right in front of you, did that take you by surprise, did it shake you? Was it sobering? What was it like? You've been to a lot of places, I mean, that's talked about in the film too. You've been to a lot of spooky places.

PENN: It was so heartbreaking from the beginning, right? I was trying to hold out beliefs that, let's say, there would be no upside for Putin. But when it happened, one knew that this was an action of ultimate irrationality, but the kind of irrationality that comes where there has become a complete absence of good or even a strategy. This is now hateful measures in a modern world taken ultimately quite randomly, whether it's on civilian targets or military targets.

And that it was - there was no way, you could feel it in your bones, there was no way that Ukraine was going to be the only target. I would argue, in some ways, Ukraine is irrelevant to this - that this is a war of the United States by Putin. This is an angry, bitter response to many years of feeling smaller than.

ACOSTA: He's hitting Ukraine to send the U.S. a message.

PENN: I think that that's pretty clear. What he found, what he was surprised by, I think, is that when you operate a business with corruption, kleptocracy, as Putin has all his businesses and certainly the state is a business in that country and he's the CEO. Your employees and some of them are generals, well, they're going to take your example and they're going to steal too.

[18:35:03]

When it comes time to final reporting on the military you have - a lot of it's been sold out down the line, and so there was a mistake that he made. But then the underestimation of the power of this incredibly united country, a country united by all the things that historically have led to unbeatable armies. We faced it in Vietnam.

Here you have a democratic country building its freedom increasingly over the last 30 years and having really found its sovereign ownership of its identity. So he walked into those fires, he's not going to be able to get out of.

ACOSTA: Yes.

PENN: A lot of deaths, a lot of destruction and then the story became for me, why aren't we helping more? Why aren't we helping faster? Why ...

ACOSTA: Well, that's what I was going to ask you, because if Putin is doing this to send a message to the U.S., he's essentially, as you say, fighting a war with the U.S., that begs the question, is this country doing enough to help Ukraine win - for Ukraine to win?

PENN: There's - there - as history will tell it, there won't be a way to - there won't be a narrative that will excuse the paralysis of our country in this. That's President Zelenskyy, he says he's very grateful and respectful of the United States president, but I think it's clear to anybody paying attention that the reasons not to arm them are far outweighed in connecting - in connection to our aspiration as a country and long-term global economic reasons, but also that principle of saving lives, the bleeding that's happening now.

And we're talking about a country that does not want our troops involved, whose leader recognizes that we've lost too many people in too many wars, the Ukrainians are ready to fight the fight themselves and as we would there are areas that they rely on support from like- minded, like-principled countries, and we've been failing that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: All right, standby. More of my conversation with Sean Penn just ahead, his reaction to 2024 candidate, Vivek Ramaswamy, saying he'd let Russia keep parts of Ukraine that it controls right now. Stay with us. That's coming up just ahead.

You're live in CNN NEWSROOM. Be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:41:44] ACOSTA: Sean got a unique opportunity to talk with Volodymyr Zelenskyy

of Ukraine on the first days of Russia's war on that country. Now more than a year later, the actor and director says Russia is about to fall apart.

In this next part of my one-on-one interview, Penn shares his take on how to maintain American support for Ukraine, plus the surprise gift he gave to the former actor turned president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: You're promoting this film, talking about this film in the midst of a presidential campaign. If Donald Trump gets back into the White House, if a Republican presidential candidate gets into the White House, there are others who have, Vivek Ramaswamy has talked about this, pulling back on U.S. support for Ukraine. Your response to that?

PENN: Well, there's an opportunity here, not only a moral opportunity, but I think a political opportunity. Ramaswamy, I mean, there are ...

ACOSTA: He has said let Russia keep what they have of Ukraine right now.

PENN: Yes, I don't find him very interesting because he's just like a high school student who's impressive because he got an A in something he'll never apply in life. I would say that whichever party, and I think that in the blood of these parties, in the actual belief, win paying attention to it. Either party now can have a very big political win, because I think there's a lot of like-mindedness when the focus and the context of what this war means to the United States is presented.

It's not being presented very well in terms of the context and people are getting a little bit tired hearing about the randomness of, oh, well, they're winning another battle or we don't have to worry about it because they're winning some - it's not going to go like that too long and we've got to remember that, yes, the Ukrainians won this war in a sense. They've already won it in many ways.

ACOSTA: But do you worry about what happens to Ukraine if Trump gets back into the White House, simply put?

PENN: I worry about what happens to Ukraine if the American people don't learn to talk to each other civilly, that it stops being a Republican-Democrat issue. There are a lot of Republicans I've talked to who wholeheartedly support this effort. And I'd like people in this country to listen to each other and understand how to hold the feet to the fire of their leaders and turn around what's going to, let's say, trend and sell easily in the media so that - and turn it into the true story, so that at the kitchen tables people understand how much it will benefit them, how much we need in this culture a decisive act of solidarity.

And to get this story out of the headlines properly, meaning a victory for Ukraine, which involves getting back all of their territory and telling gangsterism be it in Russia or ultimately in China or anybody with a nuke that we're not going to stand for it and (inaudible) ...

ACOSTA: How do you stop Putin?

PENN: ... (inaudible) to me or ...

ACOSTA: How do you stop Putin?

PENN: Putin - I think Russia will fracture itself. The war of attrition that's so often spoken about is a way to beat down the Ukrainians.

[18:45:00]

I think that Putin better get used to the fact that there's not just one Russia and that a lot of it is at a tipping point already. So you've got, again, you arm the Ukrainians who are ready and in the fight. I see Russia falling apart on its own. I don't think it'll be a classic retreat. I think they're going to eat each other alive.

ACOSTA: Last question. I know I'm out of time here, but I think the last time you and I spoke you said something about melting down Oscars because the Academy wouldn't let Zelenskyy speak at the Academy Awards. How are those statues doing? I understand they're spending time somewhere else right now.

PENN: Yes. Well, symbolically, I thought it would be nice to give one to President Zelenskyy so that sits in his office and perhaps he'll find someone bad to club with at some point. Two of them in my pack was going to be a little heavy. And it turned out that (inaudible) what happened is simply that I was - am disgusted with the leadership of the Motion Picture Academy and it's cowardice in not having President Zelenskyy address the Academy on that - in that first presentation when, in essence, they traded his presence, a presence who was a filmmaker and actor and somebody who's kind of embodying all that, that movies are meant to inspire, who wanted to say thank you to filmmakers and to encourage that filmmaking can help change the world. That was the message he intended to send.

They decided to replace that with Chris Rock and Will Smith's dance on the stage and I just was embarrassed by it.

ACOSTA: All right. Sean Penn, thank you very much. Congrats on the movie.

PENN: Thank you.

ACOSTA: Thank you.

All right. Another thanks to Sean Penn for joining us. We appreciate it.

Coming up, are striking writers and Hollywood studios close to a compromise to end the months-long strike? An update is coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:51:28]

ACOSTA: Breaking news tonight involving the Hollywood writers' strike that has dragged on for nearly five months.

Joining us now to discuss, CNN Senior Media Reporter, Oliver Darcy, and Mediaite editor in chief, Aidan McLaughlin. Gentlemen, good evening.

Oliver, let me go to you first. What are you hearing from your sources?

OLIVER DARCY, CNN SENIOR MEDIA REPORTER: That's right, Jim. Hope is on the horizon in Hollywood. I'm being told that the striking writers and the major Hollywood studios are in the final phases. They're in the homestretch to hopefully iron out a deal that would put the strike to an end.

Jim, this is just weeks away from being the longest strike in the Writers Guild history. And that one was back in 1988. And this strike has really been about the future of Hollywood with streaming and artificial intelligence, those issues front and center. But it's caused a lot of pain in the industry, in the entertainment industry out in Los Angeles.

It's not just the thousands of writers who are on strike who have been feeling pain in their pocketbooks. It's the entire industry out there. You have to think about the restaurants and the hotels and all the industry that supports Hollywood. They've been feeling the pain. But I'm being told that this writers' strike, the studios are in the final stages of ironing out a deal that would put it to an end. And they hope to do so, Jim, by the end of this weekend.

ACOSTA: Okay, very good. And Aidan and Oliver, I both wanted to talk to you about this other earthquake in the media world this past week, I think you heard something about it. Rupert Murdoch announcing that he's stepping down as chairman of his companies, Fox and News Corp.

Murdoch, as you know, as you guys both know, elevated a number of voices on his network. Aidan, what do you think his legacy is?

AIDAN MCLAUGHLIN, EDITOR IN CHIEF, MEDIAITE: I mean, it's an extraordinary legacy. Rupert Murdoch had a 70-year career. His empire spans continents. He started in Australia. He built a newspaper that was left to him by his father into a global newspaper empire. He conquered the United Kingdom and then he came to the United States, where really his legacy is Fox News. And he built that into the biggest, most profitable, top-rated cable news network. It arguably launched Trump into the White House.

In addition to that, he also bought the New York Post and the Wall Street Journal. So he kept his fingers in the newspaper world as well. But that's an extraordinary legacy. And him retiring now, or at least stepping back from the head of those two companies, it doesn't necessarily mean that he's going to be stepping away from his career entirely. So I think there's still another chapter in Rupert Murdoch's career. ACOSTA: But Oliver and Aidan, as you both know, I mean, Murdoch's

network over there at Fox, they platformed lies coming from the former president about the 2020 Election. Let's play a little bit of that and talk about it on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TUCKER CARLSON, FORMER FOX NEW HOST: The protesters were angry. They believed that the election they had just voted in had been unfairly conducted. They were right. In retrospect, it is clear the 2020 Election was a grave betrayal of American democracy. Given the facts that have since emerged about that election, no honest person can deny it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Now, Oliver, Murdoch's son Lachlan is taking over and he's reportedly just as conservative as his dad. What does this mean for the future of Fox? Does this mean we're just going to continue to hear the same kind of stuff we've been hearing so far?

[18:55:00]

DARCY: That's certainly what I expect, Jim. And Murdoch signaled this in his memo to Fox staffers, saying that Lachlan Murdoch shared his beliefs, basically, that there's this freedom or this war for the freedom of thought occurring in this country.

Jim, Murdoch's legacy is really, frankly, quite shameful. He has not only elevated mis- and disinformation, he's really poisoned the public discourse in this country through the airing of lies and outright propaganda. You mentioned, obviously, the lie that the 2020 Election was stolen, which led to an actual insurrection on the U.S. Capitol. But there's so much more.

I mean, it would take us the entire hour, maybe multiple hours ...

ACOSTA: Right.

DARCY: ... to go through all the lies that have aired on Fox News. For instance, Rupert Murdoch was one of the first recipients of the COVID- 19 vaccine. And for years, I think, still until this day, the host that he pays, millions of dollars, they lie about the vaccine. They lied about the pandemic.

And unfortunately, those costs were paid in actual human lives. And so I think that's really the legacy that Murdoch will leave behind.

ACOSTA: Aidan, is that the legacy that lies can make you billions of dollars?

MCLAUGHLIN: Well, I think certainly that's a consideration now within Fox News. I mean, when we look at the future of Fox News now, I don't think anything is going to change, right? Lachlan Murdoch, who is now in charge of News Corp and Fox Corp, was CEO of Fox Corp for the last couple of years. He oversaw the network promoting Donald Trump's lie that the 2020 Election was stolen. He oversaw their coverage after the January 6th riot at the Capitol, a lot of which sought to downplay the violence that day.

So certainly that's Lachlan Murdoch's legacy. But we know that in - within Fox News, there is dissent about this and I think - I've been speaking to sources all week - some of them actually hope that James Murdoch, who's Rupert Murdoch's other son, who has been harshly critical of Fox News, both behind the scenes and in sort of oblique comments to the press, they're hoping that potentially he comes back and rids the network of some of these more extreme voices that have really taken it past the point of being a sensible news network and closer towards a propaganda outfit.

ACOSTA: All right. Well, we'll have to watch for that. That will be very surprising indeed.

Oliver Darcy, Aidan McLaughlin, great to talk to both of you. Really appreciate it.

MCLAUGHLIN: Thanks, Jim.

ACOSTA: And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)