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President Joe Biden Dealing With Policy And Political Problems; Rep. Debbie Dingell (D-MI) Is Interviewed About The Latest Polls Between Biden And Trump; Former Trump National Security John Bolton Weighs In On The Latest Polls Between Biden And Trump; Hollywood Writers And Studios Near A Deal; Asteroid Sample Lands In Utah Desert After Seven-Year Trip; CNN: State Of 2024 Presidential Race; Taylor Swift Spotted At Kansas City Chiefs Game; Russia's War In Ukraine Continues. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired September 24, 2023 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00]

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: All right, thank you so much for joining me today. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. The "CNN Newsroom" continues with Jim Acosta right now

JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: You are live in the "CNN Newsroom." I'm Jim Acosta in Washington. Good evening. We begin the hour with mounting political and policy challenges for President Biden. There is the threat of a looming government shutdown in a week, the widening strike by the United Auto Workers Union, and a growing immigration crisis at the U.S.-Mexico border.

Not to mention the latest polls find the president in a battle to win re-election. The nation's capital is buzzing over a new and controversial ABC News/Washington Post polls showing Biden 10 points behind former President Donald Trump in a head-to-head matchup of registered voters. Even "The Washington Post" acknowledges its own poll might be an outlier, as a similar new NBC News poll shows them tied at 46 percent.

Joining us now to talk about this is Democratic Congresswoman Debbie Dingell of Michigan. Congresswoman, thank you very much for sharing a part of your Sunday with us. We appreciate it. You're in a key battleground state. There was a lot of fuss over Michigan the last time around. Are you worried about these polls?

REP. DEBBIE DINGELL (D-MI): So, first of all, Jim, you were talking to the woman that everybody said was crazy when I told people that Donald Trump could and then would win Michigan in 2015, 2016. Polls are, you know, a snapshot in time. I didn't believe them. Everybody believed the polls and they didn't believe me.

So, we're a year out. It's -- I think it's going to be close. Michigan is not a blue state. We are a purple state. I take this election next year very seriously, but I just laugh at these polls because I've been right. I have good gut instinct and I've been right and a lot of polls have been wrong. ACOSTA: I hear you. I know that feeling sometimes, but let me ask you

this, not to spend too much time on these polls, but this NBC poll shows Trump and Biden tied at 46 percent and Biden supporters obviously will find that more encouraging. But how remarkable is it that this race appears to be deadlocked, even with the former president facing 91 criminal charges and four separate cases? How do you account for that? How do you explain that? Have you picked up on this from voters in Michigan?

DINGELL: Donald Trump is Teflon. I've told everybody we need to take him very seriously. He has a talent for understanding people's fear and anxieties. He's not good. You know, he's trying to make electric vehicles a wedge issue right now. Now, Donald Trump said that trade -- he heard trade was an issue for a lot of workers in 2015 and 2016. And Democrats did a terrible job of talking about trade. I will take him head on the subject of electric vehicles.

We are competing in a global marketplace. He says there'll be 100 percent built in China. Other countries are at more than 50 percent of the vehicles being bought, our electric vehicles. I'm going to make them -- make sure I do everything to make sure they're built here in America with good paying union worker jobs. He doesn't -- he talks a good game. Our job is going to be able to -- we're going to have to educate voters on words versus action.

ACOSTA: Well, you're absolutely right. This electric car issue is flaring up as an issue. And as you know, in a couple of days, President Biden will travel to Michigan, your home state, to join the United Auto Workers Union on the picket line. Do you like seeing him getting involved in this?

DINGELL: Look, he has made it clear he is standing with the workers. I think he made it clear before he made the decision to come and be on the picket line. It will reaffirm his support for the workers. I've been very clear he should not intervene in this strike. He does not belong at the negotiating table itself. I think he's got an important role to play in making sure that we are doing the right policy things to help in this transition, that people are hearing what each other are saying.

I think all of us don't want this to be a long strike because people are being reminded how important the auto industry is to the American economy and we're still the backbone. One in eight jobs are related to it. So, I think it will reinforce again with the workers, the president stands with them. But at the table itself, I don't -- I think this -- we need to -- to me, there are too many people doing Biden versus Trump.

It's not about the politics of the presidential election. It's a distraction right now. It's really about the workers and the issues that they are raising and talking about.

[17:05:01]

ACOSTA: Well, would you like to see the president spend more time outside of D.C. going to key battleground states? Does he need to do more of that, do you think?

DINGELL: I'd like to see the president's senior staff get out of the White House and spend more time on the ground. I think, you know, the problem -- I think the president's gut is as good as it gets. You know how long I've known President Biden. He does understand the worker. He doesn't need to be told how they're feeling.

And unfortunately, we live in a world that there are really people that would like to do people physical harm, and he has to be protected to a certain amount. But Joe Biden knows how people feel. Sometimes -- I wish other people would spend some time, and I say this to the media too, come be in these union halls with me, not just because there's a strike right now, but all the time to hear what working men and women really are feeling and thinking.

ACOSTA: And you're absolutely right. People like the autoworkers of America, they're certainly feeling the pinch in the economy right now, and the more we listen to what they have to say, the better. No question about it. Let me ask you also, Congresswoman, about this looming government shutdown. The deadline is six days away. House Speaker Kevin McCarthy is conceding he doesn't have the support of members of his own conference, the hardliners in his conference. And he was driving that message home this morning. Let's listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MATT GAETZ (R-FL): We should have separate single-subject spending bills. Kevin McCarthy promised that in January. He is in breach of that promise. So, I'm not here to hold the government hostage. I'm here to hold Kevin McCarthy to his word.

DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR, STATE OF THE UNION: If Speaker McCarthy ultimately allows a deal to pass with Democratic votes, would you support ousting him from the Speaker's chair?

REP. TIM BURCHETT (R-TN): That was something I would look strongly at, ma'am, if we do away with our duty that we said we were going to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Congresswoman, as you know, the Speaker has been saying that there are some members of his conference who want to burn the whole place down. That was the way he described it. And you just heard in that tape we just played a few moments ago, some of those more conservative members, they sound like they're on a collision course with next Saturday in this potential government shutdown. Does it sound inevitable to you at this point?

DINGELL: So never say never. I believe in hope can spring eternal, but I do believe that there is a small group of Republicans that are going to shut this government down at anything they can do to get it to happen. I think Eric Graves, who's a colleague that I respect, described it very well today, that it's like an arsonist who's burnt down a home or a building, then saying that they want to go in and try to save it. We don't have separate appropriation bills because the same group of

people won't allow them even to be considered. We keep killing the rules to even consider individual appropriation bills. I believe it's irresponsible. It's not a way to run our government. It threatens so many aspects, starting with our national security. I will do anything I can to keep the government open, but I will not vote for a bill that satisfies this small group of people and would do serious damage, permanent damage, to everything from our national security, to the air traffic controllers, to the TSA, the food we eat, our health care, et cetera. We're going to have to see what the week brings.

ACOSTA: Well, and not to get into all the mechanics of everything, but you know how Washington works and how the Capitol works very well, Congresswoman. Aren't we just running out of time, days in the calendar to work through the mechanics of getting something out of the House, getting something out of the Senate and over to the President's desk? It sounds like time is running short.

DINGELL: So, it depends what they do. If we were to do a simple continuing resolution, which, by the way, Senator Mitch McConnell and Republicans in the Senate also support, there would still be time to do it. You get something done. It goes to rules. You get enough votes to pass it out of rules. It goes to the floor. It really depends what Kevin McCarthy decides. If we shut the government down, it is, unfortunately, squarely on Speaker McCarthy and his small group of Republicans that seek to do, I think, unacceptable damage to our country.

ACOSTA: But why doesn't, in your view, why doesn't the Speaker just go around those hardliners and go to the moderate Republicans, go to Democrats and say, let's put something together that can get passed? Why doesn't he do that?

DINGELL: I don't know. I'm not a member of the Republican caucus. Kevin McCarthy doesn't talk to me about this. I think it's very complicated. He has a lot of moderate Republicans in his caucus that are now voicing their frustration and their anger and I think the Republican caucus is going to have a very unpleasant week as they deal with their -- they're killing each other.

I mean, they're self-destructing within their own caucus. But unfortunately, it's the American people that pay the price as you're in this circle of frowning (ph) squad.

[17:10:03]

ACOSTA: Yeah. Do you think the Speaker survives all this?

DINGELL: I don't know. You know, I'm not old, but I am seasoned. I've seen a lot of things happen in our nation's capital. I think we're in for a lot of drama that's really unnecessary because this country has a lot of problems facing it right now and we should be working together to address those problems, not watching this theater that we simply do not need right now in this country's history.

ACOSTA: Yeah. Well, that's certainly I think something we can count on seeing in the coming days over the next week. A lot of drama. All right, Congresswoman Debbie Dingell, thank you very much. Really appreciate your time.

DINGELL: Thanks, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right. Thank you. Coming up, why does Donald Trump have such an ironclad grip over Republican voters? I'll talk about it with former President Trump's national security advisor, John Bolton, that's next.

And can Republican presidential candidates like Will Hurd win over some of those Trump supporters? I'll ask him.

Plus, NASA's seven-year mission to collect a piece of asteroid from outer space has just returned home to Earth. What it could reveal, that's coming up next. You're live on the "CNN Newsroom."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:15:21]

ACOSTA: President Biden's age versus former President Donald Trump's indictments. A new NBC news poll breaks it down like that, finding 74 percent of registered voters have concerns about the president's age, while 62 percent of voters polled were concerned about Trump's indictments, including the felony charges stemming from his attempts to overturn the 2020 election.

The NBC poll still shows a tight race between the two men. They're tied at about 46 percent among registered voters. And joining us now to talk about this, former national security adviser to Donald Trump and former U.N. Ambassador John Bolton. Mr. Ambassador, great to see you. Thanks so much for being with us.

I guess I hate to spend too much time talking about polls, but what do you make of Trump's continued support amid all these indictments that he's facing? What's going on, do you think?

JOHN BOLTON, FORMER TRUMP NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: Well, I think President Biden is very unpopular. In both the NBC and the ABC/Washington Post polls, as a number of people have pointed out, both polls give Biden a 56 percent unfavorable rating in his job as president. And I think the Democrats are really whistling past the graveyard here if they don't see how unpopular Biden is for a whole host of reasons.

It doesn't necessarily mean people think Trump's attractive. I think if you look at 2016, 2020, and now quite likely 2024, if it's a Trump- Biden rematch, there's going to be a very large group of people who don't like either candidate. And the winner of the election will be the person they dislike least. I mean, it's a bad way to run the railroad, but both parties are on course to do it.

I wish it weren't so clear that Trump was even with Biden because for those of us who don't want to see Trump as the Republican nominee, this weakness on the part of the incumbent president simply spurs Trump's followers on to say we can beat him.

ACOSTA: And let me just drill down on this age issue just for a moment because as you know Donald Trump is just a few years younger than Joe Biden. He's not that much younger than the president. And Nikki Haley, who you worked with in the Trump administration, has said, there should be some kind of mental competency test for politicians, for candidates, for president over the age of 75. Do you think that's a good idea?

BOLTON: Well, if you're going to give mental competency tests to politicians, you better give it to them from age 21 forward. That would disqualify a lot of them right there. Look, the voters make up their mind. And that's the problem the Democrats are simply unwilling to see or unwilling to talk about. Because unless they have found a drug that de-ages people, this is only going to get more problematic for them.

I actually think if Biden withdrew tomorrow and the democratic race at that point was wide open, I think it would have a positive impact on the Republican side too, against Trump because I think a lot of people who want a grudge rematch against Joe Biden would say, hey, if he's out of the picture, maybe we ought to consider somebody who's in their forties or fifties who represents a younger generation of Republicans, not simply reverting to Donald Trump.

ACOSTA: And I did want to switch gears and talk to you about the outgoing Joint Chiefs Chairman, General Mark Milley. And I'm sure you saw this, Trump accused Milley of treason in this Truth Social post for a call that Milley made to his Chinese counterparts during the presidential transfer of power, which, as you remember, was a very chaotic time in this country.

And Trump said, in times gone by, Milley would have been put to death. I mean, today, Republican Congressman Paul Gosar echoed that dangerous sentiment in a newsletter saying that Milley should be hanged. What is your reaction to all that? Isn't that dangerous?

BOLTON: Well, it's certainly ridiculous. Look, it was -- a lot of people in the Trump administration accused other people of treason. I guess it was the kind of going thing. The fact is that the conversations between the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and his counterpart and militaries all around the world, including adversaries or potential adversaries, is something that can be quite useful to the United States.

And I took reports that Milley had done that simply to say, don't misunderstand what's going on over here. This is in no way going to have an impact on U.S. or others around the world, it was simply a prudent thing to do.

[17:19:56]

Now, if Trump doesn't understand that, it's simply another piece of evidence that after four years in the White House, he still doesn't understand how the government works. ACOSTA: But isn't that dangerous to go down that road? I mean, you

know, because you've seen the threats that have emerged direct to that, Trump's political enemies. I mean, I would imagine that you've probably heard a few yourself. But to direct this kind of language and rhetoric at the outgoing Joint Chiefs chairman, it sounds like it could really potentially put his life in danger.

BOLTON: Well, look, I don't think there's any excuse for it, that's for sure. And I think that it's a measure of Trump's unfitness for office. People should see that kind of behavior as simply disqualifying. He has said he's going to be the retribution president. And he says, not for me, but for all of you that they're trying to get through me. He'll be the retribution president on his own behalf and I think that's something that needs to be seriously debated by the other Republican candidates.

I mean, I think we've got a debate coming up in a few days. I think it's critical that they direct their criticism at Trump. He's the one who's leading in the polls in the party now. They can go after each other on that stage to their heart's content. It won't change a single thing. They've got to demonstrate to people who will vote in Republican caucuses and primaries that Trump isn't qualified to be president. He wasn't qualified the first time, and he hasn't gotten any better with age.

ACOSTA: And I did want to ask you about this new "Atlantic" piece, staying on the topic of Trump and Milley. The piece alleges that then- President Trump complained to Milley about including an Army veteran who lost a leg in combat at a Pentagon event, saying, quote, "Why do you bring people like that here? No one wants to see that -- the wounded." Your thoughts on this? Did you ever pick up on this kind of language coming from the former president, then-president from time to time? directed at members of the military, wounded members of the military, that sort of thing? Isn't that outrageous?

BOLTON: Well, there were - yeah, it is outrageous. There were a number of occasions where he said he didn't understand why people would go in the military, what did they get out of it, and so on and so forth. And I heard from others who had been in the administration before I joined that he had similar disparaging things to say. This is the nature of Donald Trump. Nobody meets his expectations. Everybody else is a loser. And this goes to a mental attitude that I think is dangerous in an American president.

ACOSTA: And so why is it, I mean, you know, if a big part of the former president's base is military veterans, people who align themselves with the military, military families and so on, why do they still stick with him, even if he uses this kind of language? And you have people like yourself coming out and saying, oh yeah, I've heard things like that too. It's not just coming in the "Atlantic." It's folks like yourself are also saying that he engages in this kind of stuff. Why do parts of the base still stick with him if he's engaging in that kind of rhetoric?

BOLTON: Well, I don't understand it really, but I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that the partisanship in the country is very intense. It's one tribe against another tribe. I heard a former newscaster, Megyn Kelly, say that Trump was likely to get the Republican nomination. She said it approvingly because he was the biggest middle finger out there. Now, you know, that's not a qualification to be president, but if people are in the entertainment business, as Trump is, that's what gets people excited. And it's a sad commentary on politics, I will say across the board, that there are more performance artists than there are policy advocates.

ACOSTA: Yeah. And just one last quick question, this looming government shutdown. Members of the military might see their pay delayed and so on. You've been through this thing before. You've worked in government when there have been threats of shutdowns and shutdowns and so on. Might there be a national security impact?

BOLTON: I don't think there really will be, as you say. I've been through a number of shutdowns. I don't think it's that big a deal. The military, the intelligence services, law enforcement will all still be on duty. I have nothing in principle against the shutdown. I do have one objection to it, too, which is ever since Newt Gingrich led the effort in 1995 for the first shutdown in the present series, Republicans have gotten 100 percent of the blame.

So, if those who want to see a shutdown can explain to me why we're not going to get blamed for it this time, I'd be willing to talk about it, but I can see it coming. I've been there before. And I think what we need to do is get ready to explain to people for next year why we're going to be a responsible party of government in a dangerous world. This doesn't get us any further along to that objective.

[17:25:00]

ACOSTA: All right, Ambassador John Bolton, thanks very much for your time. We appreciate it.

BOLTON: Thank you.

ACOSTA: Coming up -- all right, thank you. And coming up next, Taylor Swift making some news today, attending a certain NFL game. That's after the break.

Plus, a seven-year mission to collect a piece of an asteroid is finally over. We'll tell you about this out-of-this-world mission. That's coming up in just a few moments. You're live in the "CNN Newsroom."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: We are watching for any signs of an end to the writer's strike in Hollywood this hour, or an agreement could be reached at any moment. Today marks the fifth day of marathon talks between the striking writers and studios, a strike that has dragged on for nearly five months, stalling new production of many T.V. shows and movies, and leaving many workers struggling with lost paychecks.

[17:30:05] CNN's parent company, Warner Bros. Discovery, is a part of the negotiations with the union. And CNN's Camila Bernal joins us now from Los Angeles. Camila, we're hoping for some kind of resolution to this. Maybe this weekend. What's the latest?

CAMILA BERNAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We're waiting, Jim. Really, it's a waiting game because what we need is to hear from the Writers Guild, because on the side of the studios, according to sources, they have made a final and best deal. So, what that means, we don't really know. We haven't seen what they negotiated, what they came to an agreement on, if they came to an agreement on this. But we're just simply waiting for the WGA to tell us whether or not this is, in fact, the case.

And in the meantime, a lot of the writers that we talked to say they're still very cautiously optimistic. They want to be hearing from the Guild, not necessarily from the studios. And this weekend, we know that they met for negotiations again, but the big bosses from the five or the four major studios were not at the table. Sources telling Oliver Darcy that they were involved in the process, but not in the room.

And so again, we're just simply having to wait and see what happens. A lot of the writers saying that they're willing to wait. They've already been waiting for 146 days. That's how long this strike has been. And many of them say that their demands need to be met. And that's when it comes to wages, specifically residuals when it comes to streaming. They're also very focused on artificial intelligence.

So, these are not the issues that are easy to negotiate or come to an agreement on. Everybody is waiting. But again, many say that they're willing to continue to wait. Here's one of the writers and what he said today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID SLACK, TV WRITER AND PRODUCER, WGA MEMBER: This is a moment for all of labor to say enough is enough. You can't treat us this way. So, if we need to go longer, we'll go longer. We all want it to be over. We didn't want this in the first place. None of us wanted to go on strike. But if this is what we have to do to protect our way of life and to protect each other, it's what we're going to do. We're going to do it as long as we need to.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERNAL: And if we do get to a deal, the members still have to ratify it. And even furthermore, the actors also have to come to an agreement because they too are on strike. So, things are not necessarily going to return back to normal anytime soon here in Hollywood, but there is a little bit of hope, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right. And we'll take it. Camila Bernal, thank you very much. Turning now to a space odyssey that has been seven years in the making for NASA.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Touchdown. I will repeat, our first video has touchdown (ph).

ACOSTA: NASA collected a sample from an asteroid in space and brought it back to Earth, completing a seven-year mission. The return happened earlier this morning with the capsule landing in a remote section of the Utah desert. Scientists hope to learn more about the solar system's origins from the small space rock carried back to Earth.

Space expert Miles O'Brien joins us now to talk about this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

Miles, great to see you as always. What do you think about this? I mean, this is -- this is cool stuff. What kind of information do we think we're going to get from the space rock?

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, it's nothing less than perhaps unlocking the key to how life got started on this planet, Jim. So big stuff.

ACOSTA: Okay, yeah.

O'BRIEN: You can imagine this planet about four billion years ago not being such a cushy place for life, mostly magma, but as it cooled off, a lot of scientists believe these days that it was bombarded by asteroids that brought perhaps the building blocks of life, amino acids and carbon, and some of the ingredients that make it all possible for us to have this conversation billions of years later.

What's interesting about asteroids is that, you know, we here on Earth have gone through all kinds of tectonic and geologic activity in the meantime, sort of covering up all the evidence. But asteroids, it's like having those ingredients in a deep freeze out there in space. And if you could go and grab some of those ingredients and take a look, which is what this mission did, maybe you'll solve some big questions.

ACOSTA: And how did they do it? I mean, how did they get this rock off of that asteroid, if I could just ask a basic question there? I'm kind of amazed that we were able to do this.

O'BRIEN: Yeah. Well, it's actually --

ACOSTA: It's kind of cool.

O'BRIEN: The short answer is very carefully. It's a seven-year mission. They flew to Bennu, which is a near-Earth object, which incidentally will fly very close to Earth in the coming years and could potentially put a bull's eye on us. But that's another story.

But the trick with Bennu is it's only about 1,600 feet across, so there's really no gravity there. You can't really land in any meaningful way there. And so, they did what amounts to a pogo stick- style bonk on that asteroid, sucked up some of these rocks, and went off on their way. So, the seven-year mission was only about a few seconds of actually collecting the samples.

[17:35:00]

ACOSTA: Interesting. And it sounds like Bennu is a bad boy. Is that the deal, Miles? I mean, you were just saying a few moments ago that this thing might hit the Earth in 100 --

O'BRIEN: Yeah, Bennu --

ACOSTA: -- or 200 years from now. Are we going to have to get Bruce Willis up there and play Aerosmith and all that?

O'BRIEN: Yeah, Bennu in the next decade or so will -- is -- yeah, it has been slated to fly between the Moon and Earth in the next decade. And depending on how that goes, in another 50 years beyond that, it could very well have our number painted on it. And we need to watch Bennu very carefully. It's one of those near-Earth objects.

Now, this is an asteroid that won't cause a dinosaur-like extinction event, but it would. It's about the size of the Empire State Building and would cause a huge regional catastrophe. So, it's important that NASA keep a close eye on Bennu.

ACOSTA: And we have the technology, do we not, to potentially deal with that? I suppose in 100 or 200 years, we damn well better have the technology to deal with it if we've got to do something to that asteroid. We just experimented with knocking these things off course.

O'BRIEN: Yeah, just about a year ago, almost exactly a year ago, this DART mission proved that we could, you know, auger into an asteroid and perturb its orbit ever so slightly, but just enough if you do it far enough in advance to make just a spectacular light show as opposed to a regional catastrophe.

ACOSTA: Very interesting stuff. All right, Miles, well, we knew you were the perfect person to go to on this. We appreciate it very much. Great to see you as always. Thanks, Miles.

O'BRIEN: You're welcome, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right. And stay with me in our next hour. We'll talk to another renowned expert on all this, astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson. He'll be joining us. So, we can't wait for that. Stay tuned for that.

And in the meantime, it might be the toughest job in politics right now, figuring out how to win over Trump supporters in 2024. So, what do you do? Republican candidate for president, Will Hurd, joins me next to talk about that and much more. Stay with us. You're live here in the "CNN Newsroom."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:41:11]

ACOSTA: Republican candidates have a steep hill to climb to beat Donald Trump. The new NBC polling out today shows Trump continuing to dominate his GOP opponents. The former president is leading his next closest competitor, Ron DeSantis, by a whopping 43 points. All of the other candidates in the race are in single digits.

Joining us now to talk about this is Republican presidential candidate, former Texas Congressman Will Hurd. Congressman, great to see you as always. We appreciate it. I hate to do a lot of poll questions here, but I just want to delve into these numbers. And, you know, this poll we were just showing a few moments ago, showing Trump just way out in front of the field, is this race over?

WILL HURD, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No, this race is not over, and there's no question, though, that Donald Trump is the front runner and is a leader. And a national polling is a snapshot in time. There are still many weeks before the first state start having voting.

But when you start drilling down in some of the early states, let's take a place like New Hampshire, that lead narrows pretty significantly. And when you see about those Trump voters, yes, he has a -- I always call it about 30% of hardcore support that no matter what, they're going to support them -- support him.

But there's other -- there's a whole lot of other folks that voted for Donald Trump twice, recognized that he has a lot of baggage, and wants to see some of the other candidates and what they have to offer. And that's why we can accept this, Donald Trump as a nominee, as a fait accompli, because ultimately, two-thirds of Americans do not want to see a rematch between Joe Biden and Donald Trump.

The problem is only 23% of Americans vote in primaries. We need to get those folks that vote in general elections to start thinking about the primary vote now. And if you're -- if you're watching in New Hampshire, Iowa, Nevada, South Carolina, and now Super Tuesday is going to be important in this vote, we need more people voting. If you want to have better options in November, now is the option.

I'm hoping I can be one of those -- one of those folks. I have 24 hours to get 300 more donors that hit the 50,000 unique donor- threshold. I'm hoping some of your viewers go to hurdforamerica.com, give me at least $1 to have someone like me meet those requirements to get down to the debate stage.

ACOSTA: Well, what happens if that doesn't occur? Are you going to have to reevaluate your candidacy?

HURD: I think reevaluation makes sense. I've always said that my goal was not to peak in today or tomorrow, is to peak in by wintertime. I think that Chris Sununu, the governor of New Hampshire, said it best over the summer, that if there's not a pathway to victory by winter, then folks need to start thinking about consolidating so that we don't have Donald Trump as a nominee.

I think, you know, Republicans could have a great opportunity in 2024 if we have the right candidate. But if we put up Donald Trump, I think we're giving four more years to Joe Biden. ACOSTA: Let me drill down on that a little bit. This Wednesday, the second republican primary debate will be held at the Reagan Presidential Library in California. What is going on with Trump skipping these debates? And why does the Republican Party allow him, the apparatus of the Republican Party allow him to do that?

HURD: Well, the apparatus of the Republican Party allows him to do that because they're all his supporters. And the reason Donald Trump doesn't show up is because he's afraid. We always want to talk about Joe Biden's age, but Donald Trump is long in the tooth as well.

And he recognizes and he's afraid that a misstep, when you have other candidates on that stage that are in their prime that are going to be taking potential shots at him and making him defend his record, he's going to have some missteps. You've seen his missteps in many of the interviews that he has done.

[17:44:58]

So, Donald Trump is afraid to stand in front of others that are going to ask -- get him to make sure that he stands behind many of his actions. Some of us would ask him about January 6 and how he committed treason. The fact that he's saying someone like General Milley committed treason is absolutely outrageous. General Milley --

ACOSTA: What's your response to that?

HURD: -- has committed his life --

ACOSTA: What's your response to that?

HURD: Donald Trump needs to look to himself, right? Well, Donald Trump needs to look to himself. He's the one that committed treason by trying to stay in power and realizing that he lost and trying to perpetuate a lie that the election was rigged.

To me, it also brings potentially violence against a public servant that has done everything he can to protect our country. And this is a continuing example of Donald Trump not caring about the men and women who put on the uniform and protect us.

Whether it's how he criticized John McCain, how he's criticizing General Milley, how he's telling secretaries of defense not to bring wounded soldiers in front of him because he doesn't want to see that, to me, that's absolutely disgusting.

And the worst of all that is the fact that he would willingly have classified documents that men and women of our intelligence services, of our military put themselves in harm's way. And I think this makes him unfit for office. And one of the reasons that I'm running for president, because Donald Trump is not trying to make America great again. Donald Trump is trying to stay out of prison.

And all of this drama, you know, the people that are enjoying it are adversaries like China and Russia. And because we have to continue to talk about these crazy things Donald Trump has done, it prevents us from having real conversations to ensure that America continues to exist the way we've known it for the next 247 years.

ACOSTA: And let's talk about the looming government shutdown that could happen at the end of this week if House lawmakers in your party don't resolve their differences. I mean, it really sounds like Democrats, they don't have a whole lot of choice here. They just have to sort of watch what the Republicans do this week. How do you think House Speaker Kevin McCarthy is handling this? And do you think it is time for him to go to Democrats and try to cobble together some kind of coalition to prevent a shutdown?

HURD: Well, if you can't pass a rule and that is what is necessary to bring a bill to the floor with your own party, then you're going to have to go to Plan B. I'm not going to write Kevin McCarthy off. He has shown an ability to get things done, even though it seems like things -- his back against the wall.

The problem here is there are a handful of Republicans that are a bunch of frauds. They say that they want 12 individual bills to come to the floor. Well, guess what? Where have they been the last six months when those were being negotiated in the Appropriations Committee? They're actually preventing those bills from coming to the floor by preventing the procedural bill from happening so that you could have an up and down vote on these bills.

So, these are people that want to see chaos. They want to see Kevin McCarthy fail. And to be honest, they're talking about how -- they're trying to be fiscal conservatives. Shutdowns have proven to cost more money. The last three shutdowns have cost about $4 billion. That's absolutely insane.

So, the thing that these frauds are saying that they're trying to do before, they're actually bringing it on the American people. And they're going to be the ones that get blamed. The broader Republican Party is the ones that are going to get blamed if the government shuts down.

ACOSTA: All right. Former Congressman Will Hurd, thank you very much for your time this evening. We appreciate it.

HURD: Thank you, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right. Also tonight, over in the NFL, there was one fan in the stands turning heads in Kansas City. Taylor Swift was spotted at the Kansas City Chiefs' game against the Chicago Bears today. In recent weeks, the artist has been the center of romantic rumors involving Super Bowl champion tight end Travis Kelce.

During an interview with ESPN earlier this week, Kelce revealed he had invited Swift to watch him play at Arrowhead Stadium. And as you can see here, it seems at this point she has clearly accepted the invite, wearing the Kansas City colors as well. So, I'm sure Chiefs fans will love that. We'll see if we have any more Taylor Swift sightings before the end of the games today here in the NFL. We'll be right back.

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[17:54:07]

ACOSTA: Three people are dead and nearly a dozen are injured following a barrage of Russian strikes across Southern Ukraine. Ukraine says two civilians were killed in the southern region of Kherson, while a third person was killed in Zaporizhzhia. Despite the onslaught, Ukraine says its forces are hanging tough. CNN's Fred Pleitgen is on the ground with the latest.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Jim. Well, there certainly has been a lot of shelling going on here in Ukraine over the past 24 hours. A lot of it going on in the areas that are close to the front lines or even close to Russia. You have, for instance, the town of Kherson where two people were killed and several people were wounded. The Ukrainians say a lot of shelling coming there from the Russian side.

Same in the area around Zaporizhzhia. That, of course, is pretty significant because that's very close to where the Ukrainians are conducting the biggest thrust of their counteroffensive. One person was killed there.

[17:54:58]

The Ukrainians also saying that they have managed to break through a Russian defense line in that area and are saying that they've been able to fortify those gains in the past 24 hours as well.

Same is actually true in the east where I am. The Ukrainians are saying around the town of Bakhmut, that they've made some gains south of that town. Of course, in the past couple of days, the Ukrainians say they took two key villages from the Russians. Well, now they're saying that they've also fortified their positions and they want to continue to build on that in the next coming days. Jim?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: All right. Fred Pleitgen in Ukraine Force, thanks so much. Is there a way for House Republicans and Democrats to work together to avoid a government shutdown? I'll put that question to New York Republican Congressman Marc Molinaro. He joins us live next here in the "CNN Newsroom," so stay with us for that.

And later on, tonight on CNN, why does a group of people believe that JFK is coming back from the dead or that he's still alive? Our Donie O'Sullivan goes down the rabbit hole to find the man behind the conspiracy theory that's tearing families apart. That is the whole story with Anderson Cooper airing tonight at 8 p.m. Eastern here on CNN.

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