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Republicans, Minus Trump, Face Off in Second Debate; Trump's Civil Trial Set to Begin Monday in New York; White House: Up to Republicans to Prevent Shutdown; American Soldier Held in North Korea Back in the U.S. Aired 4-4:30a ET

Aired September 28, 2023 - 04:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:00:28]

BIANCA NOBILO, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, a very warm welcome to our viewers joining us in the United States and all around the world. And, of course, to those of you on CNN Max, as of today.

MAX FOSTER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, joining us today from the U.S. One of the greatest names in broadcasting, the channel.

NOBILO: That is true.

FOSTER: Just ahead on CNN NEWSROOM.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald, I know you're watching, you can't help yourself. I know you're watching.

No one up here is going to call you Donald Trump. We're going to call you Donald Duck.

NIKKI HALEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES: Honestly, every time I hear you, I feel a little dumber for what you say. We can't trust you.

SEN. TIM SCOTT (R-SC), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I have been discriminated against, but America is not a racist country.

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's in our interest to end this war, and that's what I will do as president. We are not going to have a blank check. We will not have U.S. troops.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT: I saved American auto manufacturing, you know that, in my first term. And I'll save it again. We did great.

SHAWN FAIN, UAW PRESIDENT: He served the billionaire class, that's what's wrong with this country.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As weak of all weeks, it's going to hit home with them that they're not here. They're going to miss being here more than we're missing them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC)

ANNOUNCER: Live from London, this is CNN NEWSROOM with Max Foster and Bianca Nobilo.

FOSTER: It is Thursday, September the 28th, 9:00 a.m. here in London and 1:00 a.m. in Simi Valley, California, where Republican candidates for the U.S. presidency make their case to the American people. They gathered on Wednesday night for the second of three debates. And once again, front runner Donald Trump was missing from the stage.

NOBILO: The seven candidates took turns going after President Joe Biden for the economy, crime, the border crisis, and even the auto workers strike.

Here is a look at some of the highlights.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DESANTIS: Polls don't elect presidents, voters elect presidents. And we are going to take the case of the people in these early states. We're going to do it in a state by state direction. And why? Because as Reagan said in his day, this is our time for choosing.

HALEY: This is where President Trump went wrong. He focused on trade with China. He didn't focus on the fact that they were buying up our farmland. He didn't focus on the fact that they were killing Americans. He didn't focus on the fact that they were stealing $600 billion in intellectual property. He didn't focus on the fact they put a spy based off our shores in Cuba.

VIVEK RAMASWAMY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When every other CEO expanded with the Chinese market, you know what I did with my company? We opened a subsidiary and China. You know what I was different than every other company? We got the hell out of there, and when I started my company Strive, years ago.

(CROSSTALK)

MIKE PENCE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're going to stand up for the rights of parents, and we're going to pass of federal ban on transgender chemical or surgical surgery anywhere in the country. We've got to protect our kids from this radical gender ideology agenda.

CHRISTIE: If we give him any of Ukraine, next will be Poland. This is a guy who said, wait, one sec. This was a guy in 1991 who said that was the darkest moments in world history, when the Soviet Union fell? Listen, everybody, he wants up at the old band back together and only America can stop it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBILO: More now from CNN's Jeff Zeleny.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: The Republican candidates tangled variously during a two hour debate Wednesday night here at the Reagan Library in Simi Valley, California. Time is clearly running out for many of these candidates to breakthrough and emerge as a leading alternative to former President Donald Trump. That was clear from Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, who early on in the debates directly confronted the former president.

DESANTIS: You know who else is missing in action? Donald Trump is missing in action. He should be on this stage tonight. He owes it to you to defend his record, where they added $7.8 trillion to the debt. That set the stage for the inflation that we had.

ZELENY: A short time later, former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie followed suit. Of course, he's been building his candidacy off of a critique of the former president.

Now, his indictments were not mentioned at all during the debate. But the former New Jersey governor said this.

CHRISTIE: Donald, I know you're watching. You can't help yourself. I know you're watching, okay? And you're not here tonight. Not because of polls, and not because of your indictments, you're not here tonight because you're afraid of being on the stage and defending your record.

ZELENY: South Carolina Senator Tim Scott had one of the strongest moments of the debate, when he talked about the history of race in America.

SCOTT: Our nation continues to go in the right direction. It's why I can say I have been discriminated against.

[04:05:03]

But America is not a racist country. Never, ever doubt who we are. We are the greatest country on god's green earth. And frankly, the city on the hill needs a brand-new leader.

ZELENY: As the evening wore on, a spirited debate broke out between Tim Scott, and fellow South Carolinian Nikki Haley. Of course, she is the former governor of the state who actually appointed him to a Senate seat in a first place. They tangled for the first times in the presidential campaign, going after the histories of spending, and other matters.

Clearly, this debate was assigned where the candidates are trying to emerge as the second place in this race against Donald Trump. There were common discussions on Ukraine, on China, on TikTok, on abortion policy, and immigration. Again, not mentioned, the indictments facing the former president.

So, seven candidates were onstage. But the one who was not, Donald Trump, may have benefited the most of all.

Jeff Zeleny, CNN, Simi Valley, California.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NOBILO: As Jeff just mentioned, Donald Trump chose to skip the second GOP debate, just as he did the first one. Instead, the former president travel to the swing state of Michigan, to comment on the ongoing autoworkers strike.

FOSTER: Unlike President Biden who joined the picket line the day before, Trump toured a facility that was not on strike. Here's some of what he told them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Yesterday, Joe Biden came to Michigan to pose for photos at the picket line. But it is his policies that sent Michigan auto workers to the unemployment line. I side with the autoworkers of America, and with those who want to make America great again, and I always well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBILO: Trump has considerable support amongst Michigan's blue color workers, including some union members. But the head of the UAW had this to say when asked why he didn't meet with Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHAWN FAIN, UAW PRESIDENT: I see no point in meeting with him, because I don't think the man has any -- has any bit of care about what our workers stand for, what the working class stands for. He serves the billionaire class. That's what's wrong with this country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Thomas Gift is the director on the Center on U.S. Politics in University College of London. He joins us from Harrisburg, in Pennsylvania. Thanks for joining Thomas.

What do you think of this idea that the winner of the debate wasn't even there?

THOMAS GIFT, CENTRE ON U.S. POLITICS, UNIVERSITY COLLEGE OF LONDON: Well, I think that that's absolutely right. You know, Donald Trump won last night, because nothing disturbed the equilibrium where he's the clear frontrunner. And I think nothing happened that would make Trump second guess his decision to bow out a future debates. And I think that's really all that matters.

But, you know, it's got -- you've got to say, it's hard to parse winners and losers. Like this is a typical debate, because it's really not a typical debate, the guy that's dominating the polls isn't there. Most of Trump's rivals save Chris Christie and to a lesser extent, Ron DeSantis are essentially pretending that he does not exist.

Usually, we can assume that candidates are at least trying to knock a leader, but Donald Trump's Achilles heels, the criminal indictment that he is facing were not even brought up. And with the president facing 92 felony charges that's really something.

So I think the debate felt more about a diversion. There was some infighting, some psycho traumas among the different candidates that were there. But no one's really budging in the polls. And I don't think that's all to Trump's advantage.

NOBILO: Thomas, do you think that any of the candidates other than the former president, of course. Those that were participating last night, improve their chances at all by that participation?

GIFT: I really don't, Bianca, and I think right now, you almost have to say that these debates luck largely peripheral, bordering on irrelevant. You know, they're pro forma, they may determine who is the second place candidate, or maybe even who Trump's vice presidential candidate is.

But Trump is 44 percentage points up. You know, you can't ignore that. The underlying pretense of these debates is that there is a real competition. But there's not a real competition.

And I think by refusing to show up, Trump is just reinforcing his main message, which is that this is going to be a coronation. It's not going to be a primary. And, you know, Trump's entire candidacy is built around this air of inevitability, that his nomination is somehow preordained. That it's kind of self fulfilling.

And I think that looks right. You know, it's hard to look at the data and make any other projection. And contemporaneous to that, the fact that Trump is running so close to Biden in national polls basically defies this electability argument that so many Trump's opponents have been making against him.

FOSTER: Quite an interesting Row between Haley and Ramaswamy around TikTok, wasn't there? That did remind me.

GIFT: Yeah.

FOSTER: My kids have been pointing out TikTok, to links to the election. It's all Ramaswamy. I mean, he's all over TikTok. They all know who he is. They don't know who any of the other candidates are, apart from Donald Trump.

[04:10:00]

I mean, what do you make of that? I mean, it's going to be difficult getting young voters out, of course, but he's a bit of a star in the online world?

GIFT: Yeah, Vivek Ramaswamy is all over TikTok. He's all over Twitter. I follow him, and I think he is quite effective in delivering his message in these kind of bite-sized segments. He's very enthusiastic.

He is rhetorically very impressive. I mean, you know, just watching him talk, he was referred to as the ChatGPT candidate by Chris Christie and one of the earlier debates. You know, I'm not sure if he's what's going to determine this election so I think to a larger extent, Ramaswamy is building up his profile, maybe setting himself up for positioning with a candidate if Trump were to win or maybe even seeing himself up for 2028. But, yeah, certainly interesting and he's reaching voters where they are.

NOBILO: One of the moderators, Dana Perino, asked which one of the candidates should be voted off the island. Obviously, Trump is so far ahead in the polls but clearly candidates would need to drop out if there was even a theoretical possibility of someone else winning them nomination. Who do you think that person might be?

GIFT: Well, I think what these debates don't seem to be doing is clearing the field. And the only way that Trump is going to face a real primary is if he is forced to go head to head with a single opponent, whether that is DeSantis, or Haley, or someone else. That does mean other candidates dropping out.

Either in the coming weeks or bright before Iowa and New Hampshire, because, right now, this is Trump versus everyone else primary. It's a huge fractured field. Everyone is putting in an anti-Trump vote, and in winner-take-all, or proportional primaries, Bianca, Trump can essentially amassed all the delegates with that formula. So he's got 55 percent of the party vote at the moment.

The only way to beat that is one-on-one. But there is a collective action problem which is, dropping out might be good for the broader effort to challenge Trump but it's not good for the candidates individually. And no one wants to self sacrifice, and no one wants to be that first mover.

So I think to a large extent, there's going to be pressure on some of these candidates that are just lingering in the single digits, but, you know, who is actually willing to bow out first? I'm not sure if I see it. Particularly because it almost seems futile. You know, if Donald Trump is going to run away with this, why not just stay in the race?

NOBILO: Thomas Gift, always great to hear from you. You are view of U.S. politics. Thanks for joining us from Pennsylvania. We'll be in touch soon, I'm sure.

Donald Trump's civil trial is set to begin Monday in New York on charges of widespread business fraud, a case that could pose an existential threat to Trump's real estate empire.

FOSTER: It followed several major real estate setbacks for the former president in recent days. On Wednesday, the judge overseeing the government's election interference case against Trump firmly rejected calls by Trump's lawyers to recuse herself.

NOBILO: Judge Tanya Chutkan said her past statements about Trump in court were not evidence of bias as Trump alleged. In her 20-page ruling, Chutkan said she is never taken the position that Trump should be prosecuted and imprisoned. And that Trump's lawyers could not show that she had ever said anything like that. FOSTER: Now, only a few days remain before the U.S. government will

be forced to shut down again due to a stalemate in Congress over how to keep the lights on. Unless Congress acts decisively very soon, federal agencies are set to run out of money at midnight on Saturday night.

NOBILO: But many Republicans are wary of the political cause they could incur from a lengthy shutdown. Here's what some lawmakers have to say about the dysfunction within their party.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDY OGLES, U.S. HOUSE REPUBLICAN: At the end of the day, leadership procrastinated, created a mess, now we have to find a way through it. And if that means staying a couple of extra weeks with a shutdown, that's fine.

MIKE GARCIA, U.S. HOUSE REPUBLICAN: The tactics that would take, to say, hey, I want to shut things down. It literally benefits no one, and it especially doesn't benefit the conservative platform. This is -- this is not, you know, the paralleling or supporting a conservative platform by any stretch of the imagination.

SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, U.S. SENATE REPUBLICAN: You can say, you make a deal, you have to stick to the deal. And I understand that the speaker has a lot of pressures on him. So I don't want to judge why he's doing what he's doing. But I think if he stuck with the original deal, that was going to be impossible to from what we hear from the House.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBILO: For more now on why a shutdown now maybe seem more likely than ever, here's CNN's John Laurence.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN LAURENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This October might be a little more spooky than usual in the U.S.

REPORTER: Mr. President, do you think a government shutdown is inevitable at this point?

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't think anything's inevitable in politics.

LAURENCE: Funding for the government expires on Sunday, the 1st of October. And right now, there's no plan in place to prevent that.

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Every day I walk in this place, I have confidence, you know why? Because we're America. We will solve the problem before, so every day will be better than the day before. Some days you stumble, some days you get better.

LAURENCE: The White House is calling on House Republicans to back the Senate's bipartisan stopgap bill that would temporarily keep the government running with a continued resolution. CHUCK SCHUMER, U.S. SENATE MINORITY LEADER: Speaker McCarthy needs to

stop letting MAGA radicals drive his decisions and do the obvious and sensible thing. Follow the Senate's lead and pass a bipartisan CR to prevent this reckless shutdown.

LAURENCE: But some members of the House GOP aren't showing signs of compromise.

MATT GAETZ, U.S. HOUSE REPUBLICAN: If the folks in my district want somebody who will just come here to vote for continuing resolutions and omnibus bills, they've had choices and other elections. But they chose to send me, and I'm here to fight.

LAURENCE: Among the potential impacts of a shutdown, active military members and Border Patrol agents will go without pay.

I'm John Laurence, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NOBILO: Indicted U.S. Senator Bob Menendez plans to address his fellow Senate Democrats later today, as the calls mount for him to resign.

Menendez and his wife are facing multiple corruption and bribery charges, involving three businessmen and the government of Egypt. At least 30 Democratic senators are demanding he step down from the Senate.

FOSTER: Menendez was arraigned on Wednesday in federal court in Manhattan. He pleaded not guilty to all charges, and he said he expects to be fully exonerated. Federal investigators say he and his wife took hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash, and gold bars, along with other items from three businessmen to help them and the Egyptian government.

NOBILO: You can see here the criminal charges the senator and his wife are facing. He's acknowledged that they present his, quote, biggest fight yet. More than two months after this, American soldier made a mad dash into North Korea, he is now back on U.S. soil. We will have a live report on his return.

FOSTER: Plus an apology after Canadian lawmakers cheered a Ukrainian veteran who fought with the Nazis in World War II.

NOBILO: And a rough night in Philadelphia. That's what police call criminal opportunists smash into retailers in the city center.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[04:20:14]

FOSTER: A U.S. soldier held North Korea for more than two months is back on American soil. Army Private Travis King flew to San Antonio, Texas, on a U.S. military flight just a few hours ago. And is believed he's now being examined a nearby army medical center. NOBILO: U.S. officials say King was released after, quote, intense

diplomacy between multiple countries. But they insist that no concessions were made.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEW MILLER, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESPERSON: When Travis King first crossed the border into North Korea. We try to reach out on a number of occasions. They rejected our direct approaches and ended up talking to Sweden, and Sweden talked to us and help negotiate this transfer. But I would not see this is the sign of a breakthrough. I think it's a one-off with him being willing to return this private.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBILO: It's unclear what disciplinary action King may face. Authorities say he willfully and without authorization crossed into North Korea during a tour of the demilitarized zone's joint security area.

CNN's Marc Stewart is covering this life from Beijing for us.

Marc, now that Travis King is back on U.S. soil, what's the priority for him and also the U.S. government?

MARC STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Bianca. I think there is really two priorities. One is health. The second would be helpful information.

Let's first talk about health. U.S. officials want to ensure that he is in physical and emotionally good state of mind. And so, it has been made clear that upon the arrival, he will be examined by a very experienced team in these matters. Among the potential stops he might make during this very well-orchestrated arrival, he might be enlisted in the Department of Defense program that helps people who have been held in captivity, who've been held far away from home, basically re- assimilate and get used to life once again out of these, at times, challenging conditions.

It's something that Brittney Griner experienced. She went through this very similar program from the Department of Defense. And then there's this other issue of helpful information. It is very rare for an American to be held in North Korea, as well as being released.

So, he will likely face questions about where he was taken. What questions he asked? What kind of information he volunteered back? It's all part of this protocol when someone who was held in a compromised situation arrives back in the United States.

And so, we saw a team of people meet that plane, Bianca, it was no surprise, no coincidence.

NOBILO: Marc, just remind us what have we learned about Travis King and the motivations that might have encouraged him to take this action to cross in to North Korea? STEWART: Indeed, there is a back story here. He was enlisted in the

army. He had an incident in 2000 -- 2022, I should say. In South Korea where he was involved in a altercation at a club in Seoul, South Korea, he was set to return to the United States to face a potential disciplinary action by United States military.

It was dropped off at the airport, set to board a flight. But then was able to leave the airport and then ended up in the demilitarized zone. And we saw this very dramatic set of events unfold, as far as his current status. A lot of that according to officials is going to depend on how his examination goes.

Once these questions and answer sessions take place, once his health is evaluated. We will get a better idea as to where some of these administrative issues will go, how they will be handled.

NOBILO: Marc Stewart in Beijing, thank you very much.

FOSTER: Now, President Zelenskyy met the British defense minister while he was on a surprise visit to Ukraine, and discussed protecting Ukrainian skies during the upcoming winter. That story is just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[04:28:18]

NOBILO: Welcome back to CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Bianca Nobilo.

FOSTER: I'm Max Foster. If you're just joining us, let me bring up today's top stories this hour.

Seven Republican presidential candidates shared the stage on Wednesday night in California. But once again, Donald Trump, who is leading the GOP polls, skipped the debate.

U.S. House Speaker Kevin McCarthy is still appearing to lack the votes from members of his own party to stop a government shutdown unless Congress acts. Federal agencies will run out of money by midnight on Saturday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HALEY: In 40 years, Congress has only delivered a budget on time four times, in 40 years. If they don't keep the government open, they should not get paid. No pay, no budget. That's the way we should have done it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Presidential hopeful Nikki Haley there on stage last night.

And for more on that top story, we are joined by Alice Stewart, Republican strategist and CNN political commentator.

It's interesting when we are speaking to other commentators today, sort of saying these debates are redundant because they don't have Donald Trump in them.

What are your thoughts on that?

ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That's true. I mean, I've worked on for presidential campaigns. The debates have always been very important part of the process for the candidates to show contrast with each other in a Republican primary because they are very similar on issues, but these are good opportunity to show how you differentiate yourself, and how you can stay your ground, and make your case to the American people.

Without Donald Trump there, he was clearly the focus of attack. He's 40, 50 points ahead of the rest of the field on the debate stage. And they really needed to make their case against him. And while there were many attacks against him on many issues, whether it is his role in increasing the deficit when he was president of the United States, his evolving position on the abortion issue, which is critical in a primary.

And the fact that he was not there. He was called missing in action. He was called Donald Duck.

[04:30:00]