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NATO Promises More Ammunition to Ukraine; More Than 76,000 People Have Fled to Armenia from Nearby Territory; U.S. Report: China Spreading Propaganda Online; Evergrande Says Chairman Suspected of 'Crimes'; Migrants Describe Journey from Guatemala to Mexico; Cuban Scientists Work to Preserve Coral Reefs and Economy. Aired 12-12:45a ET

Aired September 29, 2023 - 00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Michael Holmes. Appreciate your company.

[00:00:11]

Coming up on CNN NEWSROOM. NATO says Ukraine is making gains in its fight against Russia, but for that to continue, they're going to need more support from the West.

The battle against misinformation. The U.S. warns China is spending billions of dollars to spread propaganda around the world.

And through tall grass and down steep hills, we'll take you along the dangerous route that migrants take in hopes of a better life.

ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN center, this is CNN NEWSROOM with Michael Holmes.

HOLMES: And we begin with words of support for Ukraine's grinding counteroffensive from NATO's top leader. Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg met with President Zelenskyy during an unannounced visit to Kyiv on Thursday.

The NATO leader says work is underway to provide Ukraine with two and a half billion dollars' worth of new ammunition.

On the same day, Russian artillery pummeled the city of Kherson, killing at least three people, according to Ukraine. Fred Pleitgen now with more on Stoltenberg's visit to the Ukrainian capital.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRED PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The Ukrainians say that they're continuing to make gains, even though modest ones, in the South of the country and also where we are in the East of the country, as well.

And the NATO secretary-general seems to also agree with that. In a meeting with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, he also said that he believes that the Ukrainians are making modest gains. He says they are tough gains, but they are gains nonetheless.

One of the things that Jens Stoltenberg said is he said, for every meter that the Ukrainians gain, the Russians lose a meter.

Now, there was also some substantial aid that was announced by Jens Stoltenberg, as well. He said that NATO has a plan to provide Ukraine with more ammunition. That's certainly something the Ukrainians need.

Stoltenberg was speaking about artillery, ammunition, and tank ammunition, as well.

One of the things that we've seen here, as we've been in a major battle around the Bakhmut area, is that the Ukrainians certainly fire a lot of ammo when they try to move forward.

The Russians, of course, firing a lot, as well. But the Ukrainians, from what we can see, certainly will need a lot of ammunitions if they are going to stay in the fight and if they are going to continue to make gains.

At the same time, the Russians also upping the ante, as well. They're now announcing that they're want to increase their defense budget by almost 70 percent. Obviously, they also feel that they're going to need a lot of ammo and a lot of weapons as this war drags on.

Fred Pleitgen, CNN, in Eastern Ukraine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: Now for more analysis, I'm joined by Mick Ryan, retired army major general in the Australian army. He's also former commander of the Australian Defense College. And he is speaking with me from Kyiv.

And I know you're glad to be back there. And I want to talk to you about in a moment. But what did you make of Jens Stoltenberg saying Ukrainian advances are, I think his word was, gradual. Is gradual or incremental enough in a war of attrition?

MAJ. GEN. MICK RYAN (RET.), AUSTRALIAN ARMY: Good day, Michael. It's good be with you.

Well, it has to be. I mean, the Ukrainians have made progress. It hasn't been the progress that many have hoped for at the beginning of the offensive. But, at the end of the day, the Russians have constructed very deep, comprehensive obstacles. And the Ukrainians, despite all the odds, have still managed to chew their way through them. So they have made progress, but there's more to come yet.

HOLMES: You -- you tweeted that part of your reason for going back to Ukraine was to explore, quote, "the strategic elements of what I describe as the Ukrainian way of war." Explain what it is, what that is, and what you found.

RYAN: Well, I think this Ukrainian way of war that we've seen evolve over the last 18 months is a mix of old Soviet equipment and ideas, newer NATO ideas, as well as Ukraine's experience in this war, not since 2022, but since 2014, as well as elements of its culture and its history.

So what we're seeing is a really unique way of fighting wars, not just battles, but how the entire nation leverages its advantages to defend itself.

HOLMES: When you look at the broad battlefield, obviously, Russia has its advantages, particularly in terms of troop numbers, whatever their capabilities might be. But in terms of command-and-control logistics and salon, how the war is waged, who has the advantage at the moment?

RYAN: Well, I think it's fair to say the Ukrainians have the strategic initiative. That they are advancing in the South, also making progress in Bakhmut. Their strategic strike program in Crimea and Russia is paying off at the moment with both military results, as well as political results. And they've improved their air defense capabilities.

So certainly, the Ukrainians have the initiative at the moment. They'll want to keep that going into winter.

[00:05:04]

HOLMES: Ukrainians -- and you touched on this -- they are through the so-called Surovikin line, that formidable Russian defense at the Southern front.

How significant are those advances, particularly when it comes, you know, to the aim of -- of cutting off Russian supply lines, getting to the Sea of Azov?

RYAN: Well, I think we should describe it as good progress, but the job's not done yet.

They've chewed their way through a couple of the lines, but they really need to be able to hold open that bridge and then flow through a whole lot of forces that can exploit it. They've yet to do that, but I'm sure, like many people around the world, will be hopeful that they're able to do that in the short to medium term.

HOLMES: What does Ukraine, then, need to achieve, do you think, militarily before the return of winter? And it is a brutal winter. One senior Ukrainian general said on Friday that winter won't, I think he said, heavily influence the counteroffensive? What are your thoughts?

RYAN: Well, the Ukrainians will need continued support with equipment by provision of new equipment to replace battle losses, as well as the maintenance of damages equipment.

We've seen just how high-quality NATO kit (ph) is to their Russian equivalents, and it's saved a lot of Ukrainian lives.

Ammunition is clearly a high priority for battlefield commanders and the Ukrainian government. But so is stocking up an air-defense missiles, not just to protect forces on the battlefield, but for Ukraine's cities over the winter. HOLMES: You and I have spoken, I don't know how many times since the

war began. I was in Ukraine at the time. But for you, being back there now, what are your impressions of where Ukraine stands, not just militarily, but in terms of determination among ordinary Ukrainians, who I know you've been speaking with.

RYAN: Yes, it's a fairly resilient society. I mean, the unity of the society is crucial to how Ukraine is waging this defense against its brutal neighbor.

You know, I'm sure there are many people who are deeply saddened at the loss of the relatives, but overall, this is a society that understands that it has no choice but to defend itself. So there's a quiet resilience and determination.

HOLMES: It's good to have you back there on the ground. Major General Mick Ryan in Kyiv, really appreciate it. Good to see you, my friend.

RYAN: Thanks, Michael.

HOLMES: Turning now to the Netherlands, where three people were killed in a shooting rampage on Thursday.

Authorities arrested a 32-year-old student for what they say was a targeted attack. They say he shot and killed a woman and her 14-year- old daughter at a house, and then set fire to that house.

Police say the suspect then went to the nearby teaching hospital where he studied and fatally shot a doctor. He also set a fire there before being arrested.

Police found him with a gun in his pocket and wearing a bulletproof vest. They believe he acted alone.

There are growing calls for accountability in Iraq after that wedding hall fire that killed at least 100 people and injured 150 others. Funerals have begun for the victims.

The country's interior minister says 14 people have been arrested, including the hall's owner, and three people who allegedly lit fireworks indoors. Authorities say a lack of safety and security measures turned the happy occasion into a nightmare.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

EM NOUR, RELATIVE OF VICTIM (through translator): It is not OK for one person to get burned, let alone tens of thousands. The Iraqi blood is spilled easily.

HANAA KHADER, RELATIVE OF VICTIM (through translator): I lost five family members. My nephew and his mother, my brother and his wife, and my sister-in-law. And there are another four family members who were admitted to Irbil hospital, suffering from their wounds.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: And we're about to show you video of the moment the fire began. A warning: some viewers might find it disturbing.

It's incredible, really. It's a packed venue, and as loved ones celebrate a young couple's marriage, incredibly, fireworks were let off and shot up during a dance. That lit the ceiling on fire.

And then you see people start to realize how serious the situation is and start running for their lives.

The father of the groom says the newlyweds did survive.

To Armenia, where the government says more than 76,000 people have now arrived from the Nagorno-Karabakh region, now under control of neighboring Azerbaijan. The figure remains nearly two-thirds of the enclave's ethnic Armenian population has now fled, choosing to leave behind their ancestral homeland out of fear of persecution.

Amnesty International is calling on Azerbaijan to allow safe passage for those heading to Armenia and to guarantee the right of return.

But for many refugees, there is little hope of ever going home again, as the self-proclaimed republic of Nagorno-Karabakh will soon dissolve and cease to exist.

[00:10:06]

CNN's Scott McLean with our report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The satellite images show the scale of the exodus from Nagorno-Karabakh, a seemingly endless snaking line of vehicles, interrupted only by the military checkpoints along the way.

This video, released by Azerbaijan, shows police handing out water to waiting cars, though some inside fear what or who else they might be looking for.

Aid is getting into Nagorno-Karabakh, but the U.S. State Department says it could be days before a mission of international observers is organized. That may be too little, too late.

NIKOL PASHINYAN, ARMENIAN PRIME MINISTER (through translator): Analysis of the situation shows that, in the coming days, there will be no Armenians left in Nagorno-Karabakh. This is an active ethnic cleansing.

MCLEAN (voice-over): There also won't be anything resembling an independent state either. The president of the breakaway Armenian- majority region says, "The self-declared Republic of Nagorno-Karabakh ceases its existence. Clearly, not by choice, but due to the current difficult military political situation. And to ensure that ethnic Armenians, including the militants who laid down their weapons can get out."

Well over half of the Nagorno-Karabakh population has reached Armenia, and officials say the pace has not slowed down. They come, packed into cars, buses, buses, or in the backs of trucks, carrying whatever they can. Some overwhelmed by their sudden new reality.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We had horrific days. I could never have imagined that we will come to this point. We are leaving our Karabakh and going away.

MCLEAN (voice-over): Jacqueline Avetislan (ph) is a doctor in Armenia, seeing patients soon after they arrive, hungry, stressed, depressed, or worse.

JACQUELINE AVETISLAN (ph), DOCTOR (through translator): The situation is very bad, especially for the children. They mostly have a cold. For example, one group came in an open body car. They were under the rain for two days. Imagine how cold and soaked they were.

MCLEAN (voice-over): Prominent businessman, philanthropist and former state minister of the separatist government, Ruben Vardanyan, did not make it to Armenia.

Video published by Azerbaijan security services showed him being forcefully led into a cell by masked soldiers. He's now been accused of financing terror and involvement with illegal armed groups, though Baku has not presented evidence; and the forces that Azerbaijan considers illegal, Armenian separatist considered their legitimate army.

Scott McLean, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: President Biden delivers a blistering broadside at Donald Trump, laying out why he believes the former president and his followers pose an existential threat to American democracy. We'll have that story when we come back.

And also, a stark warning from the U.S. about China's efforts to control and manipulate online spaces. We'll have that story and dig deeper with a security expert after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: With a potentially painful government shutdown just days away, U.S. President Joe Biden on Thursday made one of his most direct condemnations yet of the hardline Republicans in Congress who have stalled the funding and the former president who is egging them on.

At an event in Arizona to honor his late friend, the Republican Senator John McCain, Biden portrayed Trump and his followers as extremists bent on destroying American democracy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Frankly, these extremists have no idea what the hell they're talking about. I'm serious. They're pushing a notion the defeated former president expressed when

he was in office and believes only applies to him. And this is a dangerous notion. This president is above the law, no limits on power.

Trump says the Constitution gave him, quote, "the right to do whatever he wants as president," end of quote. I never heard a president say that even in jest. Not guided by the Constitution or by comments, service and decency toward our fellow Americans, but by vengeance and vindictiveness.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: The White House said this is the fourth major speech the president is given in defense of American democracy.

It was also Mr. Biden strongest condemnation of Trump since the ex- president was formally charged with trying to subvert his 2020 election loss.

A new U.S. report details China's efforts to spread disinformation and propaganda online. And it contains a striking warning that Beijing is effectively promoting, quote, "digital authoritarianism," both at home and around the world.

CNN chief national security correspondent Alex Marquardt with more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: The U.S. State Department on Thursday issued a new sweeping warming about the Chinese government's efforts to control information, to disseminate propaganda and disinformation that promotes what they call "digital authoritarianism," both in China and all around the world.

The report accuses President Xi Jinping of significantly expanding the PRC's efforts to shape the global information environment. It does allege that China spends billions of dollars every year on foreign information manipulation and says that President Xi has, quote, "pressed PRC state media" to tailor precise communication methods to influence foreign audiences globally.

Now the head of that center that published the report, the GEC, the coordinator's name is Jamie Rubin. And he said on Thursday, he issued a warning that this type of manipulation of information is what he called the dark side of globalization. Take a listen.

JAMIE RUBIN, SPECIAL ENVOY AND COORDINATOR, GLOBAL ENGAGEMENT CENTER: If we don't change course, steady, often imperceptible changes will occur that poison the information space that is crucial for our societies to function.

We don't want to see an Orwellian mix of fact and fiction in our world and to -- that will destroy the secure world of rules and rights that the United States and much of the world relies upon.

MARQUARDT: The report also gives a number of dramatic examples of the PRC's efforts to disseminate Beijing's narrative and to crackdown on conversations about issues like Taiwan, China's human rights record, and the South China Sea.

It alleges that China uses influencers to push its message and that the Chinese company which owns the huge social media app TikTok, that company, quote, "maintained a regularly-updated internal list which identifies people who are likely blocked for reasons such as advocating for the independence of Chinese Uyghurs."

Now, China's embassy here in Washington, D.C., responded to that State Department report, telling CNN, in part, that the report "serves to heighten ideological confrontation, to spread disinformation, and to smear China's domestic and foreign policies."

Alex Marquardt, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: Jimmy Metzl is a senior fellow with the Atlantic Council and was part of the National Security Council staff during the Clinton administration. He joins me now from Newport Beach, California. Always good to see you, Jamie.

This is a striking warning from the State Department, accusing the Chinese of widening their disinformation and propaganda globally. How serious do you think the threat is? What could it do?

JIMMY METZL, SENIOR FELLOW, ATLANTIC COUNCIL: Oh, it's certainly very serious. Chinese propagandists, like Russian propagandists, are poisoning the free flow of information in our open societies.

[00:20:01]

We've already seen the threat that poses to American democracy. We've seen misinformation around the issues of the origins of the COVID-19 pandemic.

And what they are basically trying to do is to poison the well of global accountable information and to create an environment where there is no fact, where there is no real accountability.

And if we don't want to live in that Orwellian world, as Jamie Rubin rightly pointed out, we have to call this by its name. We have to be honest about what's happening. And we need to develop response mechanisms that do what needs to be done, countering misinformation and harmful propaganda without undermining our own open societies.

HOLMES: It's interesting where this report suggests that the messaging is focused. They say there's particular focus on Asia, Africa and Latin America. Why there and how effective has it been?

METZL: I believe the Chinese government believes that it's an open terrain. Already, there are seeds of distrust. Certainly, the post- colonial societies don't have a lot of trust in the former colonizing countries. And I believe that the China thinks that they can create opportunities

to get people around the world to distrust the United States, to become relativists, to see China in a positive light, in part because they don't have all -- all of the information.

And when you look at what China does internally, China's state and China's Communist Party is based around misinformation and lies. Mao himself, the founder of the Chinese Communist Party -- he's on the currency and his portrait hangs above Tiananmen Square -- is responsible for the deaths of around 47 million Chinese citizens.

So there's the lie about Mao. Every year Chinese government has a World War II victory commemoration event and parade, as if the Chinese communists played any meaningful role in fighting the Japanese during World War II.

So the entire government internally is based on propaganda and lies. And what they're trying to do now is to turn the environment in the rest of the world kind of like the controlled information environment inside of China. We really need to stand up against that.

HOLMES: There has long been concern, of course, about China's military expansionism, as well as its economic power globally, belt and road and so on. How does this information and propaganda compare to those areas as -- I don't know -- a weapon of sorts?

METZL: Well, what we've seen over past decades is that the information space has become a domain of conflict. This has been happening for many, many decades. Certainly in the Rwandan genocide, that was the case, where radio was used to organize and incite the genocide.

And as information systems become more central to our lives, as more of us live more of our lives in these virtual spaces, whether it's social media or just in our communications with each other through cross distance, the ability of the Chinese government, the Russian government to manipulate those environments becomes greater.

So certainly, the military threat of the Chinese government, its occupation, its illegal occupation of large swaths of the South China Sea, its genocide against the Uyghurs and the Tibetans and others, is perhaps more serious than this -- this massive global propaganda and misinformation campaign.

But it's all part of the same thing.

HOLMES: Right.

METZL: These are tentacles of the same monster. And so we need to be very honest about it. We need to be clear about what is happening. And we need to be clear about who we are and what are our standards, so that it's not just fighting against China but it's also fighting for the things that we believe in.

HOLMES: We're out of time, but I did want to ask you this, because it makes an interesting point. We talked about the broad strokes of this propaganda and influence and so on. But it's also right down to the grassroots. You get hit every time you tweet, don't you?

METZL: I'm attacked every day by paid propagandists of the Chinese government.

It started when I raised essential questions about the origins of the COVID-19 pandemic, which was very sensitive for the Chinese government. And they have -- essentially, it's paid propaganda armies that are attacking people like me for raising basic fundamental issues and questions.

And if we want to live in a world where we are free to communicate, we need to fight for that world.

HOLMES: Yes. Yes, big picture in small picture. Atlantic Council senior fellow Jamie Metzl. Always good to see you, Jamie. Thank you.

[00:25:04]

METZL: Thank you, Michael.

HOLMES: More trouble for the embattled Chinese real estate developer, Evergrande. The company says its chairman is suspected of crimes.

CNN's Marc Stewart is live this hour in Beijing for us with details. And Marc, this is the latest, really, in a series of woes facing China's property market. Bring us up to date.

MARC STEWART, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Indeed, Michael. And I want to point out, this is just not a story about business and economics.

For Chinese families, the woes that we are seeing in the real estate market are very personal, because these are families who have spent their hard-earned money on new homes, new places to live, only to see these projects halted in their tracks.

So this latest case involves a company known as Evergrande. At one point, it was a very big developer here in China. It was the focus of a criminal probe.

And now, over the last few hours, we have learned that one of its top executives, Mr. Xu Jiayin, is now under investigation.

What we have seen in recent weeks is Evergrande deal with debt. It's trying to make peace with its international creditors. It's even filed for bankruptcy protection in the United States, all in this effort to try to get back on track.

But it's a very lofty task. It is not alone. Other real-estate firms here in China are facing hardship. We talked to one analyst to get his thoughts as to what could happen next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDREW COLLIER, MANAGING DIRECTOR, ORIENT CAPITAL RESEARCH: We're going to see a lot of players go out of business. A lot of home owners are going to lose their upfront payments, and the Chinese economy is going to be hurt pretty badly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEWART: There are many different opinions as to just how much harm this will do to the Chinese economy, but it is important to stress the real-estate market at one point was a big part of China's economic engine.

But after the pandemic, people became a bit concerned about spending money. It didn't feel so good, so they cut back. We saw high youth unemployment. We saw just general concerns about the global international global marketplace.

So as such, money started to stop exchanging hands, and that has put the real-estate industry here in China in a very big predicament. And Michael, it could, as we have heard, have very big ramifications across China's economy.

HOLMES: Great wrap-up there. Marc, thank you. Marc Stewart there in Beijing for us.

Quick break here on the program. When we come back, we're going to go beyond the ground as migrants from South America make a grueling trip in search of a better life. Our up-close life at one group's journey to Mexico, when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:30:11]

HOLMES: You're watching CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Michael Holmes.

Now Germany says it would support a revision of the E.U.'s policy of irregular migration as the bloc weighs what to do about the number of migrants arriving by sea.

European migration ministers met in Brussels on Thursday to discuss so-called crisis mechanisms. The proposal sets out a framework for sharing out asylum seekers who arrive outside of official border crossings.

The intention is to avoid overwhelming countries of entry, such as Italy and others along the Mediterranean or in Eastern Europe. Ministers haven't reached agreement yet, but officials say they are close to a final decision.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

YIVA JOHANSSON, EUROPEAN HOME AFFAIRS COMMISSIONER: You find the right balance that member states will support. And I'm sure that, in a few days, we will also have the formal decision on the general proposal on the crisis proposal, and that is very much welcome.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Migration looks to be a key issue for voters ahead of regional issues in Germany next month and E.U.-wide parliamentary elections next year.

Thousands of people have been fleeing their homes in South America in search of a better life. The migrants tell us that the multi-day journey North, using unofficial channels, can be both costly and grueling. Sometimes it's deadly.

CNN's David Culver caught up with about two dozen of them on their trip to Guatemala to Mexico.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID CULVER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They stick together throughout, no one left behind, from falls to steep climbs.

CULVER: A lot of young children, so some of them are just basically being carried up.

CULVER (voice-over): To dead ends.

CULVER: We started to go the wrong way for the moment and now they're backtracking a little bit.

CULVER (voice-over): Setback after setback.

CULVER: He's saying that they paid, were promised another pick-up on the other side, but it seems like that driver just took off with their money.

CULVER (voice-over): This, just part of a day's journey for these migrants, a day that started not here in Southern Mexico but across the Suchiate River in Guatemala.

With passports stamped, we take the official land crossing, stepping into a vibrant Tecun Uman. In the shade of the stone square, we meet two families from Venezuela, traveling as one.

CULVER: They're saying they're ready to cross.

CULVER (voice-over): They welcome us to join.

CULVER: Siete, seven years old.

CULVER (voice-over): A 15-minute stroll to the river, after 18 grueling days on the road. Jaimanera Rodriguez (ph) tells me it's been costly.

CULVER: She says going, like, that going through the jungle is like dealing with the mafia. She says you have to pay in order to leave and they had to pay $250 a person.

CULVER (voice-over): As they arrive at the river, another expense. The crossing.

Meanwhile, we go back to the Mexico side, using the official entry, and hop onto a raft. CULVER: We're waiting for the two families that we met to make their

way across. And they're about to board a raft and meet us in the middle as they cross illegally to Mexico.

CULVER (voice-over): Their raft drifts over the border, and we meet again in Mexico.

CULVER: He's saying they're headed to the land of opportunity.

CULVER (voice-over): Migrant children scramble to help tug them to shore. They step off and into Sita Lagargo (ph), a small border town. It allows for just a moment of joy, if only for the kids.

Their goal tonight, Tapachula, to get Mexican transit documents. They learn it's not as close as they'd hoped, 20 miles, normally an hour's drive. But there's a catch.

CULVER: Is that your van?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, yes.

CULVER: Oh, OK. They're getting on right now.

CULVER (voice-over): Because they never entered Mexico legally, they need to avoid the multiple migration checkpoints. Otherwise, the Mexican drivers could be accused of smuggling.

Every crevice of the van filled. Then they're off. On the road for only about ten minutes. We watch as they pull over just before the first checkpoint. Everyone out. They walk the direction they think they're supposed to head.

CULVER: You can tell they're basically just trying to figure out their way as they go. They have no real guide. They were told some general instructions, and now they're just trying to figure it out.

CULVER (voice-over): Weaving through brush and high grass, up and down hills, they skirt around the first migration checkpoint, but on the other side, the same driver, who they paid to wait for them, has taken off.

CULVER: So they're trying to figure out if they can get another van or they keep walking. Looks like for now, they're just going to keep walking.

[00:35:02]

CULVER (voice-over): A few minutes pass. Another van pulls up. Fifteen minutes later, another stop, another checkpoint walk-around. Thirty minutes after that, yet another. This one takes them on a bridge directly over the migration checkpoint.

Back on the van they go.

Before sunset, they make it to Tapachula. Relieved? Sure. Also, overwhelmed, thinking about the unknowns ahead, but determined to keep moving North.

Smiling and waving, "We'll see you later," they tell us.

David Culver, CNN, Tapachula, Mexico.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: The coral reefs that protect coastlines from extreme weather are being damaged, of course, by climate change. But scientists in Cuba are pushing a major change they hope will help save them. We'll have a report from Cuba after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL GAMBON, ACTOR: But you know, happiness can be found even in the darkest of times. One only remembers to turn on the light.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: That's the Irish actor Sir Michael Gambon there in his signature role as Dumbledore, headmaster of the Hogwarts School of Witchcraft in most of the Harry Potter films.

Now according to a statement on behalf of his family, the actor died peacefully at the age of 82 after a bout of pneumonia. He had his wife and his son by his side.

Gambon worked in television, film, the stage and radio. He also starred in the hit series "The Singing Detective." Some described him as a trickster, with fellow actor Helen Mirren recalling his naughty sense of humor.

Harry Potter author J.K. Rowling posted, quote, "Michael was a wonderful man, in addition to being an outstanding actor, and I loved working with him."

He was a terrific actor.

The glaciers in Switzerland are shrinking at a, quote, "mind-blowing rate." That's according to the head of the Swiss Glacier Monitoring Network.

He tells CNN it is due to a combination of low snowfall and record high temperatures that would have been, in his words, impossible without climate change.

Ten percent of the ice volume has disappeared over the past two years, the same amount lost in the 30 years between 1960 and 1990. Even if climate targets are met, recent research finds that up to half of the world's glaciers would disappear by the end of the century.

Human-created climate change has also damaged the coral reefs off the coast of Cuba. Now scientists believe they've found a way to not only preserve the vulnerable environment, but also improve the island's economy.

CNN's Patrick Oppmann explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Porpoises swim off the coast of Cuba. The waters here may seem pristine, but like seemingly everywhere else, this Caribbean island nation is grappling with the threats of a rapidly-changing climate.

Now in the first research expedition of its kind, 24 Cuban scientists and crew circumnavigated the entire island to carry out what they say is the most comprehensive study ever done on climate change and the impact it's had on Cuba.

Researchers dive from coral reef to coral reef and say what they have found is even more dire than they expected.

"We've seen a bleaching of corals, which is something that is worrying, and that is massive," she says. "The majority of coral is bleached, and this is because of the high temperatures."

The scientists say it's not too late to reverse the damage, but that we have to dramatically reduce human-caused pollution that is heating oceans to record levels, killing off coral reefs and filling the seas with microplastics.

With this study, the scientists say they will be able to measure much more accurately how much harm has been inflicted on Cuba's unique natural environments.

"We are going to have a baseline," she says. "We hope to identify the spots along the coast where the pollution is and how concentrated it is."

For two months, the scientists carried out dozens of dives, taking hundreds of samples from the bottom of the ocean.

Scientists are barely out of their wetsuits before running tests in the laboratory. They hope what they learn can help change how resources on this island are used.

OPPMANN: Scientists say they are making the case to government officials here that the country needs to transition from commercial fishing, have a greater focus on marine tourism.

As they say, a shark can only be caught in one time, whereas that same shark can be enjoyed by tourists on a dive excursion again and again, something that's not only better for this country's environment but also its economy.

OPPMANN (voice-over): The change will not come easy, but for Cubans who depend on mangroves to protect them from hurricanes, and beaches to attract tourists, experts say there is no other choice.

"It's not a luxury, it's a necessity," he says. "Even with so many difficulties, we can't stop learning about coral reefs. To protect the beaches, to protect us from extreme weather. They give us sand and fish and the foods we eat."

The scientists traveled more than 1,800 nautical miles to better understand the incredible natural world off Cuba's shores that is increasingly at risk.

Patrick Oppmann, CNN, Cienfuegos, Cuba.

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HOLMES: The damage we do.

I'm Michael Holmes. I'll be back at the top of the hour with more CNN NEWSROOM. But first, WORLD SPORT after the break. I'll see you in a bit.

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