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House Of Representatives Passes 45-Day Spending Bill To Continue Funding Federal Government; House Democrats Vote In Large Enough Numbers To Pass Temporary Spending Bill To Avert Government Shutdown; Senate To Vote Down Procedural Step in Its Own Spending Bill To Allow House Spending Bill To Pass; House Spending Bill Does Not Include Funding For Ukraine To Fight Russian Invasion; Sen. Mark Warner (D-VA) Interviewed On Senate Not Passing Spending Bill That Includes Funding For Ukraine; New York City Under State Of Emergency Following Record-Setting Rain That Overwhelmed City's Sewer System; House Spending Bill To Go To Senate For Vote. Aired 2-3p ET.
Aired September 30, 2023 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[14:01:52]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN breaking news.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, again, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me on what is seriously a marathon Saturday on Capitol Hill and wherever you are. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.
We begin with this breaking news from Capitol Hill, where we're watching an 11th hour stopgap spending bill potentially come to reality. The House has yet to vote on it, but there are so many moving parts today, you're seeing the minority -- House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries there, who has been using his magic minute to speak to the chamber there, imploring that all of this was avoidable, there could have been some bipartisan effort to keep government spending well before this juncture, but here we all are.
Let's get straight to CNN's Lauren Fox who is on Capitol Hill. Lauren, brand new reporting that you have about not just what's going on in the House, but apparently what's happening in the Senate, and how all of this is coming together. What's going on?
LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, let me paint a picture for viewers at home. Basically, there's been a delay in both the House and the Senate. They had two separate bills that were moving on two different tracks, and essentially both sides were trying to wait out the other one to see who would go first in this showdown. What you are watching right now happen on the House floor is a delay as Democrats think about whether or not they're going to support that short-term spending bill that House Speaker Kevin McCarthy announced earlier this morning.
But we just had a new development in the United States Senate. Republicans, including Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, who helped put together their short-term spending bill in that chamber, are now planning to vote against a procedural vote on the Senate floor because they are arguing that they are basically wanting to make sure that the House bill can pass. Their argument right now is that the only viable option available to avert a government shutdown is the bill that McCarthy wants to put on the floor of the House of Representatives. Therefore, despite the fact many Republicans were planning to support the Senate bill, they are going to vote against a procedural step over there, and basically try to force Democrats to send them the House- passed bill.
So that is the dynamic at play right now. Obviously, it is a very significant development, given the fact that Minority Leader Mitch McConnell has been one of the most dogged Republican supporters of Ukraine aid, and the House bill that is moving through that chamber right now, it does not include $6.2 billion in military assistance for Ukraine. The Senate bill did include that money.
So the fact that you have Republicans and specifically Minority Leader Mitch McConnell saying that they are going to vote against a procedural vote on the Senate floor to advance that legislation with Ukraine aid, that's significant. But it tells you that right now Republicans feel like there's one game in town, and the only bill that's going to pass, in their eyes, is the bill that McCarthy is trying to pass out of the House right now.
[14:05:04]
It does put more pressure on House Democrats who are still reviewing and trying to decide how they want to proceed right now, Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: And in fact, that was what I was going to ask you about, the sequence of events. Before the Senate would approve of this stopgap measure, of course, it's got to get through the House. And majority leader McCarthy needs 100 Democrats in order to get that over the line. And we're seeing the minority leader, Hakeem Jeffries, who really has been speaking largely to the fact that all of this was avoidable, they need more time in which to read through the 72 pages. At this juncture, does it appear as though House Democrats have received enough time to go through the 72 pages, if they would approve of it, and if it would be a viable measure that will make it over to the Senate?
FOX: Well, it's obviously the key question right now, is whether Democrats feel ready to move forward with that step. But obviously, it was a surprise that Minority Leader Mitch McConnell came out and said that Senate Republicans were going to be voting against the procedural step. Obviously, a lot of moving pieces here. Things are developing very quickly. But there is clearly a pressure campaign right now on House Democrats to see whether or not they're going to back this measure.
WHITFIELD: So what do you suppose, Lauren, is taking place now with Mitch McConnell reaching out to Democratic senators to perhaps leverage their influence on House Democrats, or would Senate Mitch McConnell be reaching out to House Democrats directly to say, here is the deal, this is how I see it, let's get this over the finish line so that later we can work on something. I, too, am disappointed that Ukraine aid is not in here, but I want to keep the government working.
FOX: Yes. Well, I think the signal that McConnell just sent by basically being flanked by most of his conference as he made that announcement, that is the signal. He doesn't need to pick up the phone and make any additional phone calls. He's already made his position very clear.
But I just want to point out, once again, that it is very significant, given McConnell's past history of Ukraine funding, given the fact that he has been one of the strongest Republican supporters. It's such a big development, given that reality.
WHITFIELD: Right. And now what might this mean for House Speaker McCarthy? He needs this to pass. He needs the support, and at the same time, he is trying to appeal to those Republicans who have said, we don't want Ukrainian money in there, but we do want to keep military, Border Patrol funding going, paychecks?
FOX: The reality is, Fredricka, is that there could be two things that are true. Kevin McCarthy could potentially avoid a shutdown, but he could potentially face the end of his speakership because of calls that you have seen from people like Matt Gaetz, who have been arguing, if you put something on the floor that gets Democratic support, if you reach across the aisle and try to put something on the floor that would get more Democrats than Republicans, or potentially maybe even be a bill that a lot of conservatives would be opposed to, that that would potentially trigger a vote to oust the speaker.
So it is possible that in doing the thing to keep the government open, you could potentially lose the speaker's gavel. But we've asked McCarthy multiple times today, are you afraid of that, are you worried about that, are you weighing that? And he says, repeatedly, I feel like this is the adult thing to do, that this is the move I need to make. And obviously, that is what he is factoring in right now. And I think Speaker McCarthy is actually right behind us.
WHITFIELD: Go for it, Lauren.
FOX: Speaker McCarthy, have you talked to Democrats? What are they going to do?
WHITFIELD: All right, well, obviously, he doesn't want to get ahead of his hopefulness, I imagine. He's said a lot thus far this morning. Go ahead, Lauren.
FOX: I asked specifically if he was confident that Democrats would vote for this, and he just said, we'll see. Obviously, there's a lot of things happening very quickly up here on Capitol Hill. It's been quite a wild day. When we woke up this morning, we weren't sure that there was going to be any plan put on the floor. Obviously, that is the effort that McCarthy is making, to get something on the floor of the House.
WHITFIELD: OK, we'll see. I didn't hear it. You did. You're right there. And just to underscore that point you made earlier about the
fearfulness of losing the job, you had posed the question to him a couple of times, and he said, if I have to risk my job to stand up for the American people, I will do that.
[14:10:00]
So, again, you said, we'll see if -- the House hasn't voted for this yet. But if, indeed, they get the support for this stopgap measure and the Senate then is behind it, you just underscored it doesn't necessarily mean that secures House Speaker McCarthy of his gig.
Lauren Fox, we'll check back with you. We're going to let her continue to chase people, because she does that very well.
Let's bring in senior White House correspondent Kayla Tausche who is at the House. So Kayla, is the White House open, and are they receptive about hearing about this potential concession that the Senate, by the urging of Minority Leader McConnell, to support the stopgap measure if, indeed, the votes are there in the House? McCarthy says he'll be on board with this. How would the White House feel about this?
KAYLA TAUSCHE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Certainly, that would come as a surprise, Fredricka, because up until this point the Biden administration had placed its hopes and its blessing, essentially, in a bipartisan bill that had been brokered between the two leaders of each party in the Senate, with the hope that Speaker McCarthy would be forced to put that bill on the floor.
The administration has been taking a hands-off approach and had its top officials and representatives on behalf of the president, Steve Ricchetti, a senior adviser to the president, Shuwanza Goff, who runs legislative affairs, and the White House's budget director essentially liaising between the president and Capitol Hill because these developments are so fast moving.
But they are taking a hands-off approach because ultimately, it is up to what can pass both chambers. They have made their desires known for both Ukraine and disaster funding. They have also made their desire known to keep the government open. President Biden earlier this week challenged Speaker McCarthy to do that. He told a group of donors in San Francisco that he believes is choosing between his speakership and the interests of the American people, essentially a challenge to the speaker to find some sort of compromise that can pass both chambers.
But in the meantime, the White House, in the words of one official, is hoping for the best, but planning for the worst. There is regular cadence of communication between the executive branch and all of the government agencies, who, if the government shuts down, will be stripped from staffs of tens of thousands of people in some cases, to just dozens of exempted or essential employees who would be required to continue working, and trying to figure out how some of those essential functions can continue.
We expect that in the coming days the president would convene a cabinet meeting to talk about continuity of government, and we've learned that many of these agencies are planning for a shutdown that could, if it ends up happening, that could last weeks and not days. So certainly, they are preparing for both outcomes, hoping for the best, but planning for the worst, and keeping all options open because, as we've seen this play out before, it could come down to the 11th hour, Fred.
WHITFIELD: And so, Kayla, would the White House see this as potentially McConnell and McCarthy caving to what Jeffries described as MAGA Republicans, or would they see this as an important compromise in order to keep the government going, working?
TAUSCHE: Well, the White House has always shown its favor toward compromise above all else. The president has talked about the need for both parties to work together. Just this week he gave a speech in Arizona touting the career of former Senator John McCain for the way that he reached across the aisle and put country and not party first. So certainly, the White House has been talking about how important compromise is in situations like this. So ultimately it would just come down to the details, and it would come down to the votes and whether it would, in fact, be something that could keep the lights on for the federal government.
WHITFIELD: Kayla Tausche at the White House, thank you so much. We'll check back with you.
I'm joined now by Democratic Virginia Senator Mark Warner. Senator, good to see you. So you just heard this breaking news from our Lauren Fox about the Senate GOP's plans to vote no on a procedural step for the Senate's short-term funding bill, but instead back this stopgap measure from the House if it, indeed, passes the House, and then they would go for that. Do you like this idea?
SEN. MARK WARNER, (D-VA): Fredricka, we all know Americans scratch their head at what happens in Congress. Today I'm scratching my head. If there's ever a day where down is up, and up is down, it's today. Let's look at what's going on. As recently as this week, 75 percent of the House of Representatives, 330 members, voted to keep our commitment to Ukraine.
[14:15:06]
In the Senate, over 80 senators have said we want to stand by our commitment to Ukraine, both in items of honoring our alliances, making sure they continue to push back Putin, recognizing if Putin wins, Xi wins in terms of China as well. And suddenly this passion amongst a small minority in the House against Ukraine is so high, so irrational, that you've got the leadership of the House basically more than doubling disaster systems, increasing dramatically Democratic priorities and domestic spending, all to stick it to Ukraine, to the point where they are limiting the ability for the Defense Department to transfer already existing funds to Ukraine during this short-term break, if that comes to pass.
I can't explain it to your viewers. I can't explain why we have 75 percent plus of the Congress of the United States wanting to stand by Ukraine, yet it appears that at least the House may be headed towards something where they strip out the aid to Ukraine, and even strip out any kind of stopgap efforts to help them. I don't get it.
WHITFIELD: So when you have some Republicans, and I believe Senator Rand Paul was among them, who says his concern is for keeping U.S. government going, less so about the Ukrainian government, that is behind --
WARNER: Let's acknowledge this. If that was the concern -- and listen, Senator Paul has been consistent about he does not want support for Ukraine. He's been consistent on that. I disagree with him. But that's his position. But if you really wanted to keep the government open with the approach that 77 senators supported, we could have procedurally moved this quicker.
Every ability to stick a wrench in the gears has been used. That's part of the Senate rules. I think, frankly, maybe they ought to be looked at again. We've seen this in terms of Senate rules, where one senator holds up hundreds of military promotions. But it's a little rich. And again, Senator Paul has been consistent. That is not the case with a lot of my friends on the Republican side.
WHITFIELD: And while everybody does want U.S. government to work, I wonder, if this is the vote that happens, if this stopgap measure is the one that succeeds for now, what is the message that you believe is being sent when it pertains to the U.S. government commitment and pledge, Ukrainian President Zelenskyy was just on Capitol Hill, he was just at the Pentagon. He got all this affirmation from so many different corners of Washington that we're behind you, the aid is coming, only for now potentially it not to come, at least in the form of this package. What are your concerns about the messaging, the promise?
WARNER: I have huge concerns there. And Fredricka, there may be ways -- and I don't know. I'm not an expert on transfer authority that people can bridge. But, again, you've asked the right question. When we've got elections in Europe, one of them today in Slovakia where you've got a pro-Russian candidate versus a pro-European candidate. If we now look like we're walking away from that commitment, the person who has rallied NATO, the country that has expanded NATO, the country that's brought in Japan, South Korea, Australia, countries around the world to stand up against Russian aggression, at the very moment, while it's not been a big breakthrough, Ukrainians have had a small breakthrough in the south. Why in the heck we would jeopardize that right now when the overwhelming majority of Democrats and Republicans, as I indicated, more than 75 percent in both bodies, are on record as supporting aid to Ukraine.
WHITFIELD: McConnell among them.
WARNER: Yes. Senator McConnell --
WHITFIELD: So what will your conversation be by Senator McConnell --
WARNER: Senator McConnell has been one of the strongest supporters. Senator McConnell has been one of the strongest supporters, and I have great respect for his work. I just don't understand how we get through this issue in terms of how we are viewed in terms of our willingness to stand by our commitments.
WHITFIELD: Will you have an opportunity to ask him directly? And if so --
WARNER: Listen, lots of us are having ongoing conversations. We've seen this already go dramatically different than what I think we all woke up this morning with. We still don't know for sure what the House is going to do. But as I said, I'll close with where I started. If there was ever a day where up and down and down is up, and we're down the rabbit hole in the "Alice in Wonderland" analogy, it's today.
WHITFIELD: So if I could just gauge your thoughts and your emotions, are you mostly disappointed, or are you both disappointed and hopeful that it might mean U.S. government is staying open, but it comes without a promise -- without a promise kept?
[14:20:01]
WARNER: There's no state in the country that would be harder hit than Virginia by a shutdown, with the number of federal workers, contractors, defense installations. We've got to keep the government open. But I believe we should be able to walk and chew gum, particularly -- and this is the point that I just -- if I'm not explaining it very well, it's because I don't get it. When the overwhelming majority of Democrats and Republicans still support standing by Ukraine, why we can't support Ukraine and keep the government open, that seems like a walk and chew gum kind of circumstance.
WHITFIELD: Virginia Senator Mark Warner, so glad you could be with us. Thank you so much.
WARNER: Thank you, Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: Still, a lot up in the air there on Capitol Hill. We'll continue to watch this as the clock ticks toward, still, a potential U.S. government shutdown.
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[14:25:00]
WHITFIELD: New York City is under a state of emergency today following a record-setting downpour yesterday that overwhelmed the city's sewer system, causing a surge of floodwater that drowned the streets, poured into vehicles, basements, and schools. CNN's Polo Sandoval is joining me now from New York. Polo, has the water receded from a lot of these places that were essentially underwater? What's going on?
POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Fred, I was actually just up on the streets of New York. There is certainly a sense of normalcy throughout most of the city now here underground and one of the entrances to the subway system that is really the lifeblood of the city. Things are also running smoothly again, finally, after what was an absolute nightmare of a day for millions of people here in America's largest city. That's because large portions of that transit system were essentially paralyzed by the record-breaking rainfall that we saw play out just yesterday.
However, this morning we heard from New York Governor Kathy Hochul, along with transit authorities, who assured that that system is once again back up and running, at least what you would expect on the weekend. So that is certainly a step in the right direction.
We also heard from Governor Hochul commending not just the response, the responders, but New Yorkers themselves, saying for the large part, those who could stay home actually did that. And probably one of the reasons why there were no injuries, and certainly no deaths compared to what we witnessed about two years ago with Ida, especially some of those people that became trapped in their basement apartments, that warning that was issued on Thursday afternoon and certainly on Friday afternoon, the governor said worked.
So there is certainly that sense of not just pride and relief, but also some really important questions that are being asked about what can be done to at least limit the impact not if, but when we see another event of this magnitude. On Friday, we heard New York City officials point to climate change as something that was certainly a factor in terms of the frequency of these kinds of events, and something that was repeated again earlier this morning by Governor Hochul, saying that the infrastructure in the city needs to be further improved and more investments need to happen in order to keep up with that rate of changes that we've seen. A prime example here, Fred, as we get ready to send things back to you, she mentioned that the system is built to accommodate about 1.75 inches of rain an hour. But yesterday some pockets here in the city were experiencing three. So that certainly speaks to the kind of changes that need to happen.
But for the most part, though, I can tell you the general feeling in New York is, yes, there's still that aspect of recovery, but there's a lot of normalcy happening again today.
WHITFIELD: OK, well, that's hopeful. But I'm sure still a lot of people, buses, and cars still trying to dry out. That was a lot of water. Polo Sandoval, thank you.
SANDOVAL: It sure was.
WHITFIELD: All right, so back to thoughts about the U.S. government. If it does shut down, the impact reaches every corner of America, and that includes school lunches for kids in need and grocery assistance for pregnant women and infants. We'll discuss.
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[14:32:05]
WHITFIELD: Welcome back. Live pictures right now on Capitol Hill in Washington, D.C. The voting has begun in the House on this stopgap measure to help keep the government running for the next 45 days. Our Lauren Fox is on Capitol Hill. So Lauren, what's happening?
FOX: Yes, we've been waiting for hours to see whether or not House Democrats would get behind this measure. The voting has begun, and our colleague Annie Grayer, who is actually outside the Democratic caucus meeting, she just caught up with Jim McGovern, who is the top Democrat on the House Rules Committee. She asked him, of course, if the Democrats are going to support this. And he said, quote, "We read it and we won, so we are going to vote yes."
Now, Obviously, we still have to wait and see how this vote plays out, and a lot of things can always change in short order. But Democrats for the last several hours have been delaying the process of bringing this bill to the floor, using every procedural tactic in their toolbox in an effort to try to read the bill, understand what was inside of it, and make sure that it was exactly as House Speaker Kevin McCarthy had presented it.
What they are voting on is a short-term, 45-day spending measure that would get them through November 17th. It includes disaster aid but does not include funding for Ukraine. And that is the big flashpoint between the House and the Senate, although just moments ago you had Republican Minority Leader Mitch McConnell say that Republicans would vote against a procedural step over in that chamber because they view, at this moment, the House bill as the only possible solution to avert a government shutdown.
So the vote is ongoing. We are, obviously, watching very closely as to what Democrats are going to do. But some indications show that perhaps, yes, Democrats may get behind this measure. Again, I just want to be cautious. A lot of things can change quickly. Democrats, obviously, will have to make up individual minds about where they want to be on this proposal.
WHITFIELD: Right. And it would be -- at least the calculus would be there would need to be 100 Democrats in favor of this stopgap measure for it to actually pass in the House, right?
FOX: Yes. Actually, what you need is two-thirds, because this vote is coming under a suspension of the rules. It depends on exactly how many members are actually in the chamber today voting. So an exact number is hard to give you. That is why it's going to be so important to wait and see what the final vote total is, and obviously wait until they actually gavel this vote as a final accounting of where things stand.
WHITFIELD: So you said our Annie Grayer spoke with Jim McGovern, a Democrat, member of Congress, and said he is voting yes. Did he say that he felt most would be, they are voting in unison?
FOX: We don't have any indication right now of where things stand.
[14:35:00]
Obviously, what we are watching for is Leader Jeffries, the Democratic leader, to make an announcement about where he thinks his caucus is going to go. I did talk to a number of other Democratic members over the last couple of hours, and this was going to be a very difficult decision for some Democrats because Ukraine aid is extremely important to them. But at the same token and at the same time, they want to make sure they avoid a government shutdown, and they do not want to be in a position where Democrats would potentially get some blame because they voted against this last-minute measure.
But we should just step back. There is some frustration about the fact that this is all coming at the very last possible moment. There are a lot of Democrats who feel like House Speaker McCarthy could have put this on the floor weeks ago, could have put this on the floor days ago, even hours ago. And obviously that is where some of the frustration lies. And there's just some trust issues between Democrats and the Speaker of the House given how past negotiations between McCarthy and the White House have played out.
WHITFIELD: And what is the consensus or what is the feeling about Speaker McCarthy and Senate Minority Leader McConnell and how they have positioned themselves so as to acquiesce, right, to a minority of the Republican leadership in the House, which said it did not want the Ukrainian aid in there? It specified the things they prioritize, that not being one of them. What does this do to the stature or the demeanor of a McConnell and McCarthy as a result?
FOX: Both of these men have approached this very differently. Ukraine aid for McConnell and McCarthy has been very different in the way it's been viewed, in the way it's been executed. If you remember, McCarthy, when Zelenskyy came up to Capitol Hill a couple of weeks ago, he didn't really want to be photographed with Zelenskyy on Capitol Hill. He wanted, because he knew that hardliners in his conference were unhappy with additional Ukraine funding. He wanted to make sure that he sort of kept his distance.
Meanwhile, McConnell walked Zelenskyy into the meeting. Obviously, McConnell negotiated a deal on the short-term C.R., the Senate package that included Ukraine aid. And in the past, these two men have just viewed this issue differently. And I think that that is still the case. But at this moment, I think McConnell made a calculus that there was one bill that could potentially pass before the government shut down, and that was likely the House bill, not the Senate bill. And the reason wasn't that there wasn't broad bipartisan support for the Senate bill, because there absolutely was. The issue with it was the fact that in the Senate one member can slow down the entire process. And Senator Rand Paul had been very clear that he was not going to allow the Senate to fast track anything that included Ukraine aid.
So that is why the House and Senate were coming at this very differently, and that's why the Senate bill was potentially going to get pushed to getting a final vote on Monday, because Senator Rand Paul was threatening that, and is still threatening that if Ukraine funding was included. Rand Paul told our colleague Morgan Rimmer that if the House bill came over, he would not slow-walk that process.
WHITFIELD: And you just mentioned, some people are very critical because all of this could have been averted, meaning if McCarthy was not to walk with Ukrainian President Zelenskyy, didn't want a photograph of it, that depicted where he was on any kind of potential support of U.S. aid to Ukraine. McConnell was front and center with that picture. If it was cemented, that sentiment was cemented more than a week ago, why wasn't a proposal like this floated earlier so that we wouldn't be at the now just nine, ten hours ahead of a deadline?
FOX: I think you have to remember where the House Republicans were a week ago. The House Republican Conference was divided over the path forward. I think that Democrats and Republicans in the Senate thought it was very possible that they would never, ever put a proposal on the floor to avert a shutdown, and that potentially the only game in town would be the Senate bill. So that's why they felt like they had leverage to include Ukraine funding. They did not want to put themselves in a position where that money wasn't included and then be at this place where the House took their bill because it was the only option and they could have included it. So that gives you a little bit of the background.
I do want to point out that we are watching the floor, and we should always be very careful in making any determination until the gavel goes down. But obviously, you're seeing a large number of Democrats voting in favor of this proposal. As we talked about, we don't know the exact number that would be necessary to pass this across the finish line, but it is two-thirds of the House members who are physically voting on the floor today.
[14:40:04]
So we will get a sense of exactly what the vote total is momentarily and what that magic number might be. But you're seeing Democrats put up a large number of yes votes on the board right now, and I think that that is obviously a very strong symbol that potentially this could move forward. Again, we don't know until the gavel goes down. But I just want to point out that a large number of Democrats right now are voting yes.
WHITFIELD: And thus far, that seems to be in step with your reporting, and that of Annie Grayer's too. You mentioned earlier Annie Grayer spoke with Democrat Jim McGovern, that he's giving it a yes, and we understand through CNN's reporting that Democrats have emerged from a closed-door meeting and many are telling CNN that they, too, will support this short-term funding bill. And already we're seeing some of those numbers.
FOX: Yes. Obviously, they took their time here. They wanted to read over what was included in this proposal. And I do just want to underscore, once again, that there were just such trust issues between Democrats and McCarthy. And they feel like in the past he has not been honest in terms of what he agrees to and then what happens afterward, and that is their example that they look to from the debt ceiling fight that they just went through in May.
And so they wanted to take some time. They clearly took some time, had some conversations as a caucus, as they always refer to their conferences and caucuses respectively as these family discussions. They clearly had one of those and made a determination. Obviously, the next question is, what happens in the United States Senate? Because over there, Majority Leader Chuck Schumer will have to make a decision about what he wants to do next. Obviously, we are tracking that very closely.
WHITFIELD: OK. And tell us more about that, because I just spoke with Virginia Senator Warner, who says he's completely perplexed about an about-face, so to speak, with Senator McConnell, given that he has been a big supporter of U.S. aid to Ukraine, and to now acquiesce, not have the procedural vote, and instead say if this stopgap measure passes in the House, that he would be onboard in the Senate. So help us understand the process there, the leverage that perhaps Mitch McConnell has over the Republican caucus, but Chuck Schumer may not follow suit with that?
FOX: Well, I think that there's sort of this larger question, and we don't have the answer right this second, as to what conversations might have transpired between House Democrats and Senate Democrats, but you can expect that they were talking. We know they were talking with the White House as well. So we can never read into a situation when the vote is happening over here in the House what exactly Chuck Schumer is going to do.
But obviously, there's a disappointment from a lot of Democratic members who felt like they made an agreement with Republicans that Ukraine aid was going to be worth the fight, and might feel like at this moment McConnell sort of backed off and gave up a lot of leverage that the Senate would have had to say, well, we passed our bill with Ukraine aid, you passed your bill without, let's have a conversation.
So I think that that is where some of the disappointment that you talked about from Senator Mark Warner is coming from. They feel like they had made an agreement. Obviously, the circumstances changed very rapidly over here today. And as I noted earlier, there was going to be a delay in the Senate's ability to move forward with their bill, because Senator Rand Paul had vowed to slow-walk that process because of the Ukraine aid. So this became a question of whether or not you want to avert a shutdown or not.
WHITFIELD: And then, Lauren, while we're looking at the live shot here and we're looking at the clock and it says time remaining, zero, it doesn't necessarily mean that the voting is over. Help us understand what's happening right now.
FOX: Yes, this is why I always say we should never take sense of what a vote is going to do until the gavel happens. This was supposed to be a 15-minute vote. Obviously, it's taking a little more time than 15 minutes. But ultimately the vote is not finished until you hear that gavel go down and there is an announcement of the winning side and whether it passed or not. So that is what we are waiting for right now. Typically, when you have a delay like this, it's just members getting to the floor, trying to basically move forward. And so sometimes members are just a little slow getting to the chamber and actually voting. This is an important vote, so you want to make sure you're on the record.
WHITFIELD: It is.
And let's backtrack a little bit, Lauren, about what has happened in the last couple of hours. We had House Speaker McCarthy coming out many times saying he wants to keep the government going. You asked him point blank the question of, are you worried about your job? He says, I have no fear, but at the same time, if I have to risk my job to stand up for the American people, I will do that.
[14:45:00]
And then you had the minority leader, Hakeem Jefferies, who took advantage of the magic minute, and he spoke at great length. I think we lost -- at least I lost track of how long he did end up making that magic minute into minutes, just essentially saying, wait a minute, we all promised that we were going to have a bipartisan effort when trying to get policy, get things done on Capitol Hill. What happened?
And then you had Speaker McCarthy come out and say, I've got this spending gap measure and this is what it is. So a lot has happened. And then you had Democrats who said, we don't have enough time to read through the 72 pages. During that magic minute, is that what was happening, leaders in the Democratic caucus were going over it, poring through it, talking with the White House before coming to this consensus that now a good number of them have come out to tell CNN that they're voting for it?
FOX: Yes, and Fredricka, I should point out as well, this all transpired today over a short-term spending bill. This is a bill to fund the government for 45 days. This is not the main event. This is the warm-up. There is still a much larger fight ahead on how to fund the government for the next fiscal year. And that is where things are going to get very, very dicey for both McCarthy and Democrats. And you can bet, as many moderate Republicans and Democrats have been saying for months, the only solution is really for Democrats and Republicans to work together. But it took a lot to force that today to happen on the House floor, and you can expect that it's going to take even more to get Democrats and Republicans to that place again on the full-term spending bill. But that's looking a little bit forward, given the fact that, again, this is just a bill for 45 days.
WHITFIELD: Let's listen in.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The bill is passed, and without objection, the motion to reconsider is laid on the table.
(APPLAUSE)
WHITFIELD: Well, Lauren, there was the gavel. So it has passed. The stopgap measure has passed, and now it's on its way to the Senate.
FOX: Yes, exactly. And that is the next stop. That is the next big question, what is going to happen over there, how quickly can they move? Obviously, we are going to be watching very closely for what Chuck Schumer says and does next. But the momentum coming from the House of Representatives now, and that is such a big turn of events given where we were just a couple of hours ago.
WHITFIELD: Are a good number of the senators on the hill today?
FOX: Absolutely. They had lunch together. They had an opportunity to have these conversations. So, yes, they are prepared, because they were supposed to be having a procedural vote. They are all here ready to vote. So we will just see what the next step is.
WHITFIELD: So conceivably, Lauren, the amount of time that Republicans and Democrats have in the House to read through the 72 pages, simultaneously, those copies were sent to the Senate as well. So they could have used the same amount of time to read through it, pore over all of those details, and conceivably have a consensus themselves in a matter of hours, since the clock is ticking toward a shutdown at midnight?
FOX: Yes, absolutely. And as we've said, these conversations weren't happening in a vacuum. It wasn't just House Democrats making a decision by themselves. This was a discussion that was had with the White House, a discussion that I'm sure that they had with Democratic colleagues in the United States Senate. So obviously we just need to wait and see what happens. But I think this is a strong indication that Democrats do not want the government to shut down, a strong indication that House Speaker Kevin McCarthy did not want to be in a position where Republicans were blamed for shutting the government down. So now all eyes are on the United States Senate and the Majority Leader Chuck Schumer.
WHITFIELD: OK. And, of course, it's got to pass the Senate. So still the clock is ticking toward the potential government shutdown without those votes. But if there's a way in which to assess this stage here with the House now voting to pass the stopgap measure, is this considered a victory or defeat as it pertains to Republican leadership? Not as it pertains to government staying open or not, but all eyes were on Republican leadership in this stopgap measure.
FOX: Yes, that's certainly going to be in the eye of the beholder, Fredricka. You saw House speaker McCarthy say repeatedly that this is what a leader does, that this is what an adult in the room does, they make sure the government stays open. But there are going to be people on his far right who think that he betrayed the Republican Conference, that he betrayed promises that he made to become the speaker, and he could face potential consequences for that.
[14:50:00]
I think that Matt Gaetz has been very clear that he is deeply frustrated with the speaker of the House. And it's not just Gaetz. There are others as well who have questioned McCarthy's leadership. But I think that there are others in the conference, Republicans who might be running in swing states for whom a government shutdown would have been extremely detrimental to their reelection, who think the speaker did the right thing today.
So leadership and whether or not McCarthy did the right thing, that's really in the eye of different members within his conference. But, obviously, there's a huge question mark about what his future for McCarthy looks like now.
WHITFIELD: This measure now as is makes its way over to the Senate. Would there ever be any potential of any modifications ahead of a vote?
FOX: That's certainly possible, but time is of the essence right now. We have hours to go until a government shutdown, and changing a bill takes time. You would have to then send it back over to the House for passage. So do they want to go back and forth with a volleying effort? I think that remains to be seen. And, obviously, there's just a couple of hours now until midnight.
WHITFIELD: Yes, and we have yet to hear from Senator McConnell today, similar to how we have heard from House Speaker McCarthy a couple of times today lending hope to this moment. And now this stopgap measure has received its full endorsement as it will move on to the Senate. Should we make any guesses as to how long before they're able to assemble everyone in the Senate before a vote is to happen?
FOX: Well, I think that because members were expecting that there was a procedural vote today, they are around. Obviously, it's always another question entirely how quickly the Senate can be assembled and members can be on the floor. But they were expecting that there was going to be action. Obviously, members recognize that there is a deadline looming, and they can be there pretty quickly.
WHITFIELD: OK, and Lauren, before I let -- I'm sorry, what was that. I am hearing from my -- OK, I am hearing from my producer that House Speaker McCarthy might be coming out very soon. You're going to see him before I do, Lauren, so I know you've got eyes behind your head. You can see him from all angles. So when he comes out, I understand if you have to break away. If you could, Lauren, for us, quickly, just kind of summarize what this stopgap spending bill is all about. It does allow for money toward natural disasters, but it's without Ukraine assistance. What else?
FOX: Yes, this is a 45-day short-term spending bill that funds the government through mid-November. Obviously, this is going to give them a couple of weeks to negotiate a fuller package. But this is where things could get very tricky, because House Republicans have outlined to their members a very aggressive schedule that includes voting on individual one-year spending bills that would fund various agencies across the federal government. That schedule and those bills still face long odds in the House, but they are conservative bills that are going to be dead on arrival in the United States Senate. So even though there's this brief moment of bipartisanship potentially happening, you could then see a scenario where everyone digs back in in their respective corners as they try to continue this fight to fund the government for a year.
WHITFIELD: And, of course, also at the heart are paycheck, paychecks to people from Border Patrol, to U.S. military, that was a big concern that many of them would be working without pay. This measure is assuring that there wouldn't be any furloughs, there wouldn't be anybody being asked to work without pay, but it would mean a fully government working with paychecks flowing.
FOX: Yes, it funds the government at the full levels that the government has been operating at for the last year. And obviously it is a sigh of relief for a lot of federal workers who didn't know if when they went to work on Monday, they were going to be going to work at all, whether they would be going without pay, and what the future really presented, because there was a scenario where, if you get into a prolonged shutdown, it's very hard to get out of it, right, because both sides are dug in. It takes time for negotiators to start to feel that political pressure, feel the pain of Americans who are experiencing a lack of government services, and really that to start to shake things loose.
So, obviously, that is always a concern. And it's a concern that McCarthy actually laid out repeatedly to members of his conference in private meetings. If you think that our hand is going to be stronger when we get into a government shutdown, you're wrong because of that factor of, once people are in pain, once people are feeling the effects of a shutdown, there is a lot of pressure to get out of it. And the history of government shutdowns in this country reveal that usually the side that shut the government down doesn't get what they want in the end because there's so much political pain that they're the ones who are willing to come back to the negotiating table.
[14:55:04]
WHITFIELD: And again, while this vote has passed in the House, it has yet to make it over to the Senate. Hopefully that's something that will happen for us to eyewitness and you to talk us through one more time. But in the meantime, even once that were to happen to avert a U.S. government shutdown, as you mentioned, this is for 45 days. So the hard work resumes, and perhaps it will be even more tougher fought in time for -- by November 17th, right?
So potentially what is happening at that time? How engaged might the president be on Capitol Hill as he was months ago? Or might this be an invitation at the White House for members of parties on all sides to come to the White House, let's work this out, let's come up with a plan that everyone is going to like so that by November 17 we're not back at this juncture again?
FOX: Yes. And again, this is another moment where McCarthy is going to have to make a decision. Does he continue with this process that he's promised a lot of his conservative members to work through one- year spending bills on an individual basis at levels that Republicans want them marked up at, or, given the fact that there's only a couple of weeks, does he start to work with Democrats to secure that process?
And all indications yesterday were that he wanted to move through that process with Republicans. But obviously what happened today is a new dynamic, there's a new question. But I think that Democrats are probably wishing that everyone had just stuck to the agreement that was made back in May when there was an agreement to set top line spending numbers and start the process sooner. So I think that there's a lot of people who think this probably could have been avoided, right?
WHITFIELD: Lauren Fox, you're amazing. Thank you so much. Take a quick second, break, a sip of water, and I'll talk to you again as the clock strikes 3:00 eastern time. Thank you so much, Lauren Fox, appreciate it. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
