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Rep. Jared Moskowitz (D-FL) Is Interviewed About House Passing Short-Term Bill To Avert Shutdown; McCarthy Speaks After Passing Of House Funding Bill; Spending Bill Passes House, Moves To Senate. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired September 30, 2023 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[15:01:16]
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: All right. Hello again, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me in this very busy Saturday. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.
All right, breaking news this hour, just moments ago, you watch it live right here on CNN, the House voted to pass a short term funding bill that will keep the U.S. government open for 45 days. That bill includes disaster -- natural disaster aid but does not include funding for Ukraine or the border. The last minute Hail Mary from House Speaker Kevin McCarthy seems to have worked in the House but the shutdown has not yet been averted. It is now up to the U.S. Senate to pass this proposal.
Let's get right to CNN's Manu Raju on Capitol Hill. Manu, what is the latest you now outside position to talk to anybody who comes and goes what's being said.
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Look, this is a frantic day that government shutdown could be now averted after Republicans reverse course. Speaker McCarthy capitulated after indicating for some time that he would not move forward with the government funding bill if it didn't cut spending, if it also if it didn't include funding for border security measures.
But he ultimately was forced to do so even though this bill passed with a significant amount of Republican opposition, even though more than half of his conference did support it the final vote of the 335 voting yes, 91 voting no. Ninety of those were Republicans who voted no One Democrat Mike Quigley of Illinois who voted against it because it did not have Ukraine funding. But one of the things that lawmakers were saying, I appreciate it. He's trying to get this -- trying to interrupt my live shot here.
But there has been a lot of opposition from some of those conservative hardliners who warned against cutting a deal and working with Democrats. That's what they were saying to Speaker McCarthy. Don't cut a deal with Democrats. Don't rely on Democratic votes. But this is exactly what happened here on the House floor. And that is one reason why there's concern among McCarthy's allies that there could be a vote in a matter of days to try to oust him from the speakership.
I had a chance to catch up with some of these members about whether or not they're going to push for his ouster. Many of them are not saying when it'll come down quite yet, even though they expressed dissatisfaction with the Speaker over his handling of the spending talks.
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REP. LAUREN BOEBERT (R-CO): I have confidence in the way this place is supposed to operate. And that's what we should have pushed for, 12 individual spending bills. This bipartisan muscle memory of governing by continuing resolutions and omnibus bills needs to come to an end.
But it shows that the UNA party is alive and well. And there are too many members here who are comfortable doing things the way they've been done since the mid-90s. And that's why we're sitting at $33 trillion in debt. That's why I have constituents who are frustrated because they can't afford gas in their car because they can't afford the high cost of living.
The mortgage rates where they're at because of this inflation and the reckless spending that comes right here from Washington, D.C. So this is something that we have got to get under control. We should have forced the Senate to take up the four appropriations bills that the House has passed. That should have been our play to find more than 70 percent of the federal government to keep our military personnel paid, to keep our brave men and women on our border patrol paid.
We should have forced them to come to the negotiating table and come to conference and hash out our differences with these four appropriations bills before there was another payday that was at risk of being missed.
RAJU: You vote to oust the Speaker?
BOEBERT: That isn't what we're talking about right now.
RAJU: Well, I mean Matt Gaetz has said that -- he said that he put relies (ph) on Democratic votes, he will no longer the Speaker. Sure. But if he puts it on the floor --
[15:05:09]
BOEBERT: And my focus is getting the federal government funded as we ought to with 12 individual spending bills, like we've promised everyone in January. Unfortunately, now we're 45 days of the same bipartisan muscle memory of just a straight up and down vote and whatever's in it is good with us.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
RAJU: So frustration there from the congresswoman, but not saying whether she would join with the likes of Congressman Matt Gaetz who tried to push out the Speaker. We do expect that vote to happen here in the coming days. Congressman Gaetz, if he does move forward with need Democrats to vote to oust the Speaker would need five Republicans to do that if there was an unprecedented vote in the floor, something that has never happened before in American history.
But that is an issue for days ahead. The Speaker said he's willing to have that fight on the floor, if it comes to that which is expected. Now the next thing to avoid a government shutdown, though, is the Senate. The bill will now go over to the Senate side, there needs to be an agreement of all 100 senators to vote to keep the government open for another 45 days. But as you can see, in 45 days, we can be right back to where we were at a very frantic, frantic effort to avoid a shutdown maybe averted for now.
WHITFIELD: Yes. And while, yes, and you pressed her on it. But, you know, while Congresswoman Boebert, you know, says it's really not about the ouster of McCarthy from her colleagues, it has been stated that if he gets Democratic votes in order to pass something, I mean, that's like the kiss of death. But this stopgap measure wouldn't have made it, you know, wouldn't have received any passing had it not received Democratic vote. So which is it? You know, want the government to keep functioning, but do so without Democratic support, you know, otherwise he'll be punished. It's a little confusing, like a lot confusing.
RAJU: Yes, because the speaker, the speaker tried to pass a short term funding bill that had a lot of conservative priorities and spending cuts had dealt with border security measures. Those same members voted against it because they had demanded. Instead, the Congress press annual funding bills by the September 30th deadline. But Congress rarely meets at September 30th deadline, typically needs a stopgap measure to avoid a shutdown.
So essentially, left Kevin McCarthy with very little room to maneuver, if those members weren't going to vote for a stopgap measure he needed Democratic votes in order to keep the government open. And that is where he ultimately made the decision side, let the Democrats help carry this across the finish.
WHITFIELD: All right, Manu Raju, thank you so much out there on Capitol Hill. Let's go to the White House now. Kayla Tausche is there. So Kayla, is the White House behind the Senate, possibly passing this after the House has or how is -- what is the feeling there?
KAYLA TAUSCHE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fred, I just spoke to a White House official who tells CNN that it would likely support that compromise continuing resolution that would keep the government open for 45 days, for a few reasons. Number one, it would keep the government open and it does include disaster relief funding and authorization for the Federal Aviation Authority.
Number two, this official says that it does not include the 30 percent across the board spending cuts that many Republicans were pushing to be included in previous short term bills. And number three, there's a belief within the White House that Kevin McCarthy as House Speaker has previously stated his support for funding Ukraine's defenses and that they believe that he will make good on that in separate measures, even though it is not included in that short term bill that just passed the House.
Now worth noting, the White House had previously lent its support to a Senate broker deal earlier in the week that did include $6.2 billion in funding for Ukraine. But officials are acknowledging that without a path forward for that deal in the House, that their priority is keeping the lights on in the government their priority is compromised and averting a government shutdown at all costs.
They believe this relatively clean short term bill that would have bipartisan support would likely have support within the administration and certainly is seen as a welcome development is one that was relatively unexpected just a few hours ago.
WHITFIELD: Yes, lots of surprises today. I was just looking at the calendar, OK. Forty-five days from now, November 17th, is that another Saturday? Are we going to repeat this? This is going to be identical moment. But no, it's on a Friday. Either way, let's see what happens over the next 45 days if indeed it passes in the Senate. All right, Kayla Tausche, Manu Raju, thank you so much. Appreciate it.
All right, joining me right now to talk more about all of this is Congressman Jared Moskowitz. He is a Democrat from Florida. Congressman, good to see you. So are you feel -- I mean how are you feeling here? Are you as exhausted as we are, those of us who have been watching, you know, all of this? Are you hopeful? Are you feeling defeated, what?
[15:10:03]
REP. JARED MOSKOWITZ (D-FL): No. Thanks for having me on. No, I'm not tired. This is what we're supposed to be doing, right? I mean, you know, it took a little longer than we would have liked. We didn't need to get to this point to avert a government shutdown, because we could have done this obviously days or weeks ago.
But look, this is what the people have sent us to do. So I'm glad we passed this on a bipartisan basis out of the House. I am hopeful I think the Senate is going to pass this. I think this will get to the President's desk and it will get signed. The timing of which I obviously don't know, because I don't control the Senate. And but what I do think is obviously we are clearly trying to do what we can to avert a government shutdown. I'm glad the House took the first step and passed this bill on a bipartisan basis.
WHITFIELD: When I spoke with a Virginia Senator Warner earlier, he said he was very perplexed. He was really speaking, you know, mostly to the Senate saying, you know, a great majority of Republicans were on board with Ukrainian aid. And he also spoke to, you know, a great majority of Republicans in the House on board with Ukraine aid. Is this a great disappointment that that has been removed from this package even if it means keeping government working for another 45 days?
MOSKOWITZ: No. Because I don't believe that, you know, that the Ukraine funding is over, right? I wouldn't I can't shut the government down because we don't get Ukraine funding, right? I got to fund the U.S. government first before I can then go provide foreign aid to other countries. And so this was step one, keeping the government open so that we can then solve the Ukraine issue. I support Ukraine funding. I support the White House's request for Ukraine funding. But this was the vote to keep the government open. And I'm not going to shut the government down over foreign aid.
WHITFIELD: Well, that sounds like what Senator Rand Paul said. But I hear you. You are still taking the position that over time maybe within the 45 days, if indeed it passes in the Senate, we're looking at live pictures right now in the Senate chamber. If indeed it passes, you do believe that somewhere in that 45-day period, you will resume conversations about trying to or you think there's great support for resuming conversations about trying to include Ukraine aid in the package?
MOSKOWITZ: I do. I do. And I support the funding. And I think we're delaying the inevitable. So I do agree there that, you know, we could have done it today. And I think we're delaying the memo. I think we're going to have that vote. I will vote for support of the Ukraine funding. But this kept the government open.
This gave us the $16 billion of disaster aid, being from Florida, being in hurricane season, being a former Director of Emergency Management, that disaster aid was critical. FEMA needed those resources to help communities, cities, counties, states that had been affected by hurricanes, floods, tornadoes, fires.
And so, you know, this was, you know, 90 percent of what I would have liked to see, so I'm not going to let perfect become the enemy that good. I'm going to live to fight another day. And I will fight for that Ukraine funding. But I'm happy that we're keeping the government open for all those federal employees and for all Americans so that we don't crash our economy.
WHITFIELD: How much of a surprise did it come to you that Senator Mitch McConnell led, you know, the bypassing of a procedural vote saying, OK, let's just see if this is passes in the House, let's see. He got his Republican Caucus, you know, reportedly on board that they would vote for this stopgap measure. How surprising is that for you to see that the sequence of events have changed abruptly today, and just really a matter of hours?
MOSKOWITZ: Well, look, it doesn't surprise me that people talk around Capitol Hill, right? So I'm sure the Speaker's Office and the Senate Minority Office, were in constant contact on what, you know, they each could get their members to vote for it, right? Look, we're in divided government. The House is controlled by Republicans. The Senate is controlled by Democrats. And so, you know, as a Democrat who got 90 percent of what he would have liked to see, I voted for it, by the way, so did every single solitary other Democrat except one Democrat.
And that's because we understand the catastrophic failure, it would have been to close the government. I mean, remember, they -- we didn't have to get here. You know, this is the same crew that, you know, almost, you know, took us off the cliff with the debt ceiling, took us right to the brink of defaulting on our debt. And they took us right to the brink of closing the government. And so we could have been doing this weeks ago to avert this crisis. But I'm glad obviously the House passed this on a bipartisan basis.
WHITFIELD: So among Democrats earlier today, among the arguments being made about, you know, this newest measure is that you weren't being given enough time to thoroughly digest it, to read through the 72 pages. We saw a Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries, take advantage of, you know, the magic minutes. Was that time in which that led to you being able to pour through all the details, read it thoroughly, talk among, you know, your colleagues about likes, dislikes in the package what happened in that elapse of time?
MOSKOWITZ: Well, listen, I'm a pretty quick read. It was clear to me that it was almost perfectly clean CR with disaster aid. And as soon as I made the conclusion that it was a clean CR with the fulfilling the White House's request on disaster aid to 16 billion I came out and said I was a yes vote. You know, I think it was a mistake for Republicans to try to push this through and give people 20 minutes to read the bill, that's not what they promised to do.
[15:15:10]
They promised to give people time to read bills around here. Oftentimes this place passes, you know, 1,000-page bills with very little time to read them. So I'm glad that the Leader Jeffries did that and took the time so members around here could read it. I think that's important. But it was very easy for me to read it come to my conclusion, see it was a clean CR with disaster aid and get on board and that's why 99.9 percent of Democrats here voted for the bill.
WHITFIELD: All right, Florida Congressman Jared Moskowitz, thank you so much for your time, all the best today.
MOSKOWITZ: Thank you.
WHITFIELD: All right. And of course, this breaking news continues. We'll hear from both the House Speaker and the House Minority Leader in a matter of minutes. We'll bring it to you live. Stay with us.
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WHITFIELD: All right, we continue with this breaking news. Just moments ago, the House passed a 45-day short term spending bill to avert a U.S. government shutdown. The bill now goes to the U.S. Senate. And we've already heard from Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell that he and his Republican caucus are largely on board with that measure. But again, the vote has yet to happen in the Senate, that bill is on its way.
[15:20:08]
I'm joined now by Alex Burns. He is the head of news at Politico, and a CNN political analyst. Also joining me right now, Errol Louis is CNN political commentator. Good to see both of you. Wow, what a day, huh? And it all happened on live television right here on CNN. All right, Alex, you know, all eyes are now on the U.S. Senate. I mean, within a matter of maybe an hour and a half you go from House
Speaker Kevin McCarthy, talking about how he was not fearful of losing his job. It was all about, I want to keep the U.S. government open to the next thing you know there was a stop, you know, stop spending. Look, it looks like he's speaking, House Speaker Kevin McCarthy right now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA), HOUSE SPEAKER: -- the bill we put on the floor yesterday that would secure our border, cut wasteful spending? Yes, I did. But I had some members in our own conference that wouldn't vote for that. So if you have members in your conference that won't let you vote for appropriation bills, doesn't want an omnibus and won't vote for a stopgap measure, so the only answer is to shut down and not pay our troops, I don't want to be a part of that team. I want to be a part of a conservative group that wants to get things done. Yes, sir?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, I wonder if what's your message to the 21 members that didn't support this and led to this decision today to actually see more votes like this, where you work with Democrats, what they don't get are team players?
MCCARTHY: Look on thing about me is I'm never given up on the American people. I'm going to focus on America first. And I'm going to solve those problems. I believe that the end of the day, we'll get them back on board. Yes, ma'am?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does Ukrainian have to tighten border security?
MCCARTHY: Look, I think it's very important, if we're worried about Ukraine's border, we should worry about America's border too. And I think an opportunity to solve the border along America is now one of the biggest issues in New York. The governor of Massachusetts has declared a state of emergency. The governor of New York tells people to go somewhere else. That's the mayor of New York City says it's destroying, which many in this country believe is one of the greatest cities America has.
And we have a President that has only been to the border one time in 50 years, but went to Cafe Milano twice with Hunter Biden's business partners and got $3 million for it and his son got a new Porsche. You know what? I will do whatever it takes to get the President come down to the border. Bring one of Hunter's business partners. I don't care. But we need to secure this border. Yes, sir?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible).
MCCARTHY: It's a daily basis. You've watched for nine months. I hope they learned from me that I won't give up. And they'll know I'll keep fighting. So it's better that we all come together. And when we all come together, we're much stronger. I've watched what we've been able to achieve so far. Think for one moment when Washington, D.C. wanted to decriminalize almost every single crime, we united, the Senate said they wouldn't get up. We had 172 Democrats voted against it. We had the president's aide veto it and end up signing it. We weren't heard parents across the country. They'd get arrested when they go school board meeting simply because they wanted to talk about what was happening. We passed the Parents Bill of Rights. We ended the pandemic, when they said the Senate wouldn't take it up and the President wouldn't sign it.
We passed the most conservative border security bill in the history of Congress. We passed an energy bill that would make us energy independent and create more jobs, lower inflation. We were able to get the largest cuts in American history during the debt, we're able to cut more than $2 trillion, get work requirements that the President said would be a red line, get NEPA reform for the first time in 40 years and put a provision in there we put a 1 percent cut across the board if the House and Senate doesn't do their job.
We got the Senate at least to pass approach bills in committee. They just have a hard time getting it to the floor. So the one thing I've learned is get things done, bring others along. And look, I welcome those 21 back in and we would get a better and more conservative bill if they would simply vote with us. Yes, ma'am?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Inaudible) of the Capitol a lot this morning, what were your conversations be like with Leader McConnell? Did you talk to him this morning?
MCCARTHY: I didn't get a -- Markwayne Mullin, a former member of Congress and a dear personal friend of mine. He was great. He was in the House. He was being able to convey what's happened to Senate. Now, I talked to Senator Thune many times and I thought Senator Thune did a tremendous job through it all. I had worked with McConnell early on in a lot of this too but I didn't get to talk to him today, no.
[15:25:06]
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Speaker are you satisfied that (inaudible) more Democrats voted for this than Republicans?
MCCARTHY: OK, let's understand there's different ways bills come up. If I bring a bill up under a rule, it only takes 218 to pass. If it's on suspension, it takes Republicans and Democrats together. We had the majority of the Republicans voting for it. But let's put in perspective, what happened prior to the bill.
The Democrats first wanted to adjourn, can you imagine hours away from shutting down and they wanted to adjourn, then they came down and all voted by a card to delay it, to delay it, to delay it. Then the leader when took a magic minute to keep talking and delaying it and delaying it and delaying it, so I think at the end of the day, we kept the government open, kept paying our troops to finish the job we have to get done. Yes, sir?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are the consequences (inaudible).
MCCARTHY: You know, I think Ethics should look at this. But this is serious. When you think about how other people are treated when they wanted to come in and change the course, what was happening in this building. And did he deny he did it when it's on tape? And I'm going to have a discussion with the Democratic leader about it. But this should not go without punishment. This is an embarrassment.
You're elected to be a member of Congress. He pulled the fire alarm in a minute of hours before the government being shut down, trying to dictate that government would shut down. What's going through a person's mind like that? But we will find the right ability to deal with this. Yes?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible).
MCCARTHY: Yes, yes, I do. And what Russia has done is wrong. But I believe in whatever we do, we have to have define what victory is and what the plan is. And I think what the White House needs to do is come down and talk with us and lay it out where we have a part of it say as well. Yes, ma'am?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Also Ukraine, what does this more than half of the conference including that $300 million mean to Ukraine (inaudible) mean for the prospects of getting billions more to Ukraine?
MCCARTHY: That is training money. I think there's a frustration across America that sees this President ignoring America's border, and more concerned about somewhere else. I truly believe if he would focus on America, we'd be in a stronger place. Yes, ma'am?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Speaker, did the appropriations bill you have passed (inaudible) the Senate is not likely to accept, so 45 days, what are you going to do to make sure we don't end up?
MCCARTHY: OK, can you tell me what bills in the Senate in the appropriations they passed? Has the Senate passed any bills? Yes or no? No, have they passed any bill -- Has the Senate passed any bills is not a tough question. Yes or no? Did the Senate passed a bill? You want me to answer it for you? I do not covering it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That didn't answer the question I ask you.
MCCARTHY: I can answer any way I want. You have a right to ask me a question. But I have a right to answer it. So are you embarrassed because the Senate hasn't passed in a bill, is that why you won't answer it? Or do you not know the answer to the question? The answer the question is the Senate is a different body in the House. The House has a right to act and have a say in the direction they want.
The Senate can pass any bill they want. And then you go to conference. When the Senate passes a bill, I'll be surprised. And then we can go to conference in 45 days, we should get our work all done. Yes?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you planning to stick to or actually refer to the spending caps agreement (inaudible)?
MCCARTHY: Look, I like to save whatever does. This is interesting. If you had -- you do have a child but as your child gets older, if I have two kids, I get my Connor and Megan 100 bucks go to dinner. One spends 100 and one spends 90, should the other spend all the way up to 100? If we can save money, let's save money together. Let's lower whatever we can do.
If we can save for the hard working taxpayers, why can't we have that discussion? It doesn't mean you have to spend every dollar you want. That's a spending limit. That's the agreement we made. If we haven't -- if we find that it's worthy, we could spend up to that. But if we find places we can save money, you know whose money that is? The hard working taxpayers. Let's try the same.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Last question.
MCCARTHY: Yes? Next question. Yes, sir?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where are you at --
MCCARTHY: Right here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where are you at firstly on aid to Ukraine?
MCCARTHY: Look, I think what Russia has done is horrendous. I have a real concern of what's going to happen long term. But I don't want to waste any money it's as a question was asked how long ago was a year and a half ago about Ukraine aid and I said no blank check that's what I mean about anything. I want to make sure whatever I vote for, that it's going and it's held accountable. I think there's accountability problems that we have to go. But I also make sure that we have to finish the job at the same time. Thank you all very much. I look forward to all your positive questions in the future.
[15:30:23]
WHITFIELD: All right. House Speaker, Kevin McCarthy there in that last note, kind of justifying why the aid to Ukraine was left out of that stopgap measure, you heard him saying, you know, I don't want to waste any money. It's about accountability, accountability, knowing how the money that has already been allocated and designated to Ukraine is and will be spent.
All right, he's also sounding very confident there after getting the vote through there in the House to pass the stopgap measure. Back with me now, Alex and Errol. All right, Alex, I was starting to ask you a question when we went to the house speaker. So now your reaction to what he had to say. I mean, he sounded very confident at the same time, there was a bit of a pat on the back, and that he got it done less of how worried he is about his speakership?
ALEX BURNS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think we heard a lot of what -- how worried he is about his speakership, but not in explicit terms, right? He can say all he wants. He's not concerned that he has no fear that he's just trying to get the job done. But our Fred, we wouldn't have had this last minute, like almost literally last minute, full cave, on a continuing resolution if Kevin McCarthy had not been worried about his job all this time.
The option of passing a clean resolution to keep the government open while negotiations continue for 30 days, or 45 days or 90 days. That option has been available all the law -- all along, it didn't just come up this morning. And so when you hear him suddenly pivoting away from describing that step, as you know, that would be surrender, that would be giving away our leverage to saying, all I want is to stand up for the American people. And that's what I did today, that shows what a last resort this was.
And Fred, I would say also, a number of times he was talking about the border, the number of times he was baiting President Biden going after Hunter Biden in this sort of circuitous digression from the actual matter at hand. That's all throwing red meat to a flank of his party that's really unhappy with him right now.
WHITFIELD: Oh, so you did hear that he is worried about his job, especially to when he went through the litany of these are all the accomplishments. This is how I have gotten things done, brought people on board. And then he said, you know, I do, I will welcome those 21 back in. So he's essentially, you know, saying that, they are now going to be back with me, they'll join me just as many Democrats who voted in favor of this stopgap measure. Tell me more about what you're thinking. We'd reading between the lines, Alex, of what he had to say.
BURNS: Well, if you -- he may welcome the 21 back. But the bigger question right now is how many of the 21 want to be on his team, right, that he's actually not in control of this situation right now. He's not been in control of this situation for some time. So when he is saying, you know, we need to sort of hold together as a party and accomplish big things, Fred, that list of big things that he accomplished, almost all of those were the kind of a one party, one chamber messaging bills that go nowhere in the Senate.
And part of the reason why he kind of painted into the corner that he was in until today, when he finally took the step of working with Democrats is that the Senate is controlled by Democrats, there is not a one party one chambers solution to funding the government or reaching a deal on spending reductions, there was always going to have to be bipartisan.
WHITFIELD: Errol, what did you interpret when McCarthy says, you know, I want to be a part of the conservative group to get that done, meaning, you know, keeping government working. I mean, he was dismissing those who have not been on board with him as being conservative, but not the kind of conservative that he wants to be associated with.
ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That's right, Fredricka. What will you hear from Kevin McCarthy is something that used to be the rule of the road for Conservatives and Conservative Republicans, which is to say, let's back the most conservative package or legislation or candidate that we can feasibly succeed with that can we actually can get across the finish line with. These 21 who have been bedeviling the speaker are subscribing to an entirely different theory, what they're thinking is, let's get what we want, or let's blow everything up in the process.
And I would not rule out the idea that there could be a lot of turmoil in the next 45 days, and any one of them could advance a motion to vacate and try to have the speaker removed as Speaker of the House, a very real possibility at this point. So I think Alex is right the course of events are really being done. dictated by the Democrats and by this conservative faction. And McCarthy is dancing as fast as he can trying to sort of keep all of these plates spinning at the same time, but it could all come crashing down at any moment.
[15:35:12]
One other thing I would say, Fredricka is it was really stunning to hear all of this talk about the need to deal with the border and to basically abandon Ukraine. The lesson of the last 23 years was that if you leave things to fester, because it's quote, unquote, not our business or not as important, you leave that to happen in Afghanistan, where a guy named Osama bin Laden declares war on the United States in 1996.
Nobody pays any attention until five years later, we have 9/11. It is absolutely vital to be engaged overseas. That's what the President has been saying over and over again, they can quibble about the price. But the notion that this can just be left alone, and we'll sort of work it out later, is a really risky gambit that I heard coming from the speaker.
WHITFIELD: So again, no Ukraine aid in this stopgap measure. And our Jim Sciutto actually spoke with Congressman Mike Quigley, who, you know, had this comment following this vote saying, I'm quoting now, this is a victory for Putin. Early this week, a standalone bill funding Ukraine lost in the Republican caucus. The Reagan Doctrine is dead among Republicans.
We have 45 days to clean this up. So Alex, is that going to be a priority? In the next 45 days, again, the Senate has yet to vote on this and pass it just as we just saw with the House today. But if in deed that is the case, and there 45 days to work with to keep government working, is it your feeling that Ukraine will be a priority again, or find its way in the next package?
BURNS: Well, I think that's exactly the right question is will it be a priority? Because if the debate is, is there going to be funding for Ukraine, or is there not going to be funding for Ukraine? Funding Ukraine is the majority position in the country and on Capitol Hill and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell is very outspoken recently that now is not the time to go wobbly in support for Ukraine. Of course, the President, the Democrats in Congress also support funding for Ukraine.
But the bigger risk is that it just sort of falls further and further down the list of priorities for Congress to deal with some urgency. And that's part of why it's so important to sort out in the next few days or next couple of weeks, what the House is actually going to look like if there's going to be a new speaker, or if Kevin McCarthy is going to remain the speaker, but with a fundamentally different power dynamic where he basically concedes that he's going to need to reach out to Democrats a lot more. It's really hard to game out what happens to Ukraine aid until, you know, who's actually managing half of the Hill.
WHITFIELD: Yes. And when Ukrainian President Zelenskyy was on Capitol Hill, just over a week ago, was at the Pentagon, was at the White House, he said, without continued U.S. support. Ukraine will lose point blank. I think I heard my producer say Manu Raju might be available. He's there on Capitol Hill. He was outside not long ago. Now you're inside. OK. What are you learning, Manu? You're so fat.
RAJU: Yes. In fact, I was just in that press conference with the Speaker of the House who is touting this bill that was passed, even though it did rely on a significant amount of Democratic support, just one Democrat voted against it, 90 Republicans voted against it. And more than half of Kevin McCarthy's Republican Conference did support it. But that was something that all along he had been warned against, using relying on Democratic votes to keep the government open.
Those hardliners had said, if you were to do that, that could be the end of his speakership. The question now is will they actually carry that out? I had just asked the speaker the question about the votes, if there is a vote to push him out, does he expect that he would actually rely on Democratic votes might need the support of Democrats to keep them in the speakership?
That is something that has been discussed privately over the last several days here. He did not answer that question directly. But then he did take aim at Congressman Matt Gaetz who was the ringleader of this effort tried to push out McCarthy, essentially said to him, quote, bring it, saying if they want to try to force a vote to push them out, he said he is ready for that fight.
He said he needed to be the, quote, adult in the room in trying to get this spending bill through the House, avoid a government shutdown, even if it did mean relying on Democratic votes. So the speaker making very clear that he is ready for a fight. Now, if this were to play out, it's still unclear the timing of all this, but essentially all Democrats if they decided to kick them out, along with five Republicans, that could be enough to essentially vacate the speakership.
There'll be nobody in charge until they wouldn't elect a new speaker that would lead the House to in a very chaotic and unprecedented situation, something that the Speaker believes if it happens he could still grind it out, fight it out as he did back in January, when he was elected the first time. After 15 ballots, he said, I want 15 ballots in January. He's ready to fight again. So watch to see that play out as the anger on the right continues to build.
[15:40:15]
But I'd had a chance when I was outside, just to talk to a number of those members who have threatened the speaker's threatened to push them out. They are ready to say the right to vote against him to push him out quite yet. So we'll see, Fred, if and when this comes to pass, if and when Matt Gaetz moved forward, that Matt Gaetz has been threatening this for some time. So the expectation is that he will move ahead. And the question will be, what will the votes be? And what how will the Speaker respond if and when it does come to pass and if he doesn't have the votes to defeat it?
WHITFIELD: Oh, my God. I mean, that's fascinating. But quick follow up to that, Manu. If that were indeed a scenario, that's not something that's going to play out within that 45-day period, would it?
RAJU: It could, as soon as you offer this motion to kick him out of the speakership, it takes essentially two legislative days for it to come up. So it can happen within potentially 48 hours of Congress being in session. Now the House has closed his doors, and they're not expected to be in tomorrow. So this is probably something that would not happen until next week at the earliest. So that's one thing we'll have to watch out for here.
But at the same time here, I want to just point out across the Capitol, Senate Democrats are still trying to decide exactly how to deal with this bill that just passed the House.
WHITFIELD: House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries speaking right now let's listen in.
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY), HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: -- cut from incredibly important programs like public education, providing food to women, infants and children, ensuring that Social Security recipients could address any interruptions with the checks that they need. We went from devastating cuts that would have impacted the health, the safety and the economic well-being of the American people in 24 hours to a spending agreement that meets the needs of the American people across the board.
Entirely consistent with what Democrats have said from the very beginning is the only path forward, a bipartisan spending agreement that keeps government open, avoids a catastrophic government shutdown and meets the needs of the American people in every possible way.
We've said from the beginning that we were going to protect Social Security, protect Medicare, protect Medicaid, protect public education, protect public safety, protect those individuals who secure us all across the land, protect veterans, protect our ability to continue to combat the climate crisis, protect the economy and protect the ability of our government to provide for the health, the safety and the economic well-being of the American people. And that is what the spending agreement that Democrats overwhelmingly supported on the floor of the House of Representatives accomplished today.
We're on a path to avoid a catastrophic, extreme MAGA Republican shutdown and to continue to meet the needs of the American people. The American people have won. The extreme MAGA Republicans have lost. It was a victory for the American people and a complete and total surrender by right-wing extremists who throughout the year have tried to hijack the Congress.
Moving forward, we will continue to work in a bipartisan way to discuss a year-end spending agreement consistent with our values, meeting the needs of the American people, solving problems on their behalf and putting people over politics. That is what the spending agreement that passed the House floor today has accomplished. And moving forward, that will be our guiding principle in getting things done for the American people. It's now my honor to yield to Katherine Clark, the distinguished House Democratic Whip.
REP. KATHERINE CLARK (D-MA), MINORITY WHIP: Thank you so much, Mr. Leader, for those comments and for leading our Caucus and putting the American people's voice into this process. And of course, for your hour --
[15:45:06]
WHITFIELD: All right, you are listening to House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries there who classified this juncture as the American people winning and extreme Republicans losing in the passage of this stopgap measure. Manu Raju back with us. Now, Manu, so very succinct there from Jefferies that the priorities he says of, you know, saving Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, public equity, safety, all of that was preserved in this measure.
RAJU: Yes. Look, this measure was a retreat from the Republican position. There's no question about it, the position that the speaker wanted the House to assert, which failed in a -- by in a stopgap measure yesterday would have cut federal spending pretty significantly among domestic programs are taking a significant hit under his plan. Also would have included new border security measures. But because of those cuts, Democrats voted against it in unison yesterday. And then also and 21, Republicans voted against it yesterday, which means it did not have the votes to move ahead.
And the Speaker had to essentially back off of those -- that those demands and those provisions in the bill, this proposal that just passed the House extends current funding levels. That is something that the conservatives in his conference were railing against wanted to fight back against to cut deeper spending. So he had to back off of that did include disaster relief. That is something the White House had pushed for $16 billion to deal with natural disasters. But the speaker did not put in funding for Ukraine in this measure.
And that is going to be a huge fight with enormous global implications here in the weeks ahead. Just moments ago, when the speaker talk, he did not indicate how he would deal with the issue of Ukraine funding suggesting perhaps it needed to be tied to border security money as well, but not giving any clear or sense of when this could happen, even as he said professed support for the Ukrainian cause would not say how Congress would deal with this very, very significant issue, even though there is overwhelming support for funding Ukraine here.
So even though the Democrats didn't get everything they wanted, in this proposal, it was much -- at the end of the day, it was essentially a clean extension of current funding levels, not the cuts that they were fighting against. And the government likely will stay open once the Senate acts, potentially within the next couple of hours here to keep the government open for another 45 days. Fred?
WHITFIELD: All right, thank you, Manu, and Errol Louis and Alex Burns are still with us, too. I'd love to get your point of views on what we just heard from Hakeem Jeffries. Errol, you first I mean, I came Jeffries, the Minority Leader, putting it very clear that he saw this as a victory to vote for the passage of this house measure still it's on its way to the Senate unclear whether it will pass. But you know, the conventional wisdom is it looks like it is all systems ago for that. But the vote has to actually happen.
What are your thoughts on the confidence level that we're getting both from the House Minority Leader and the House Speaker, Kevin McCarthy as well?
LOUIS: For the Minority Leader for Hakeem Jeffries, this is a huge win and a very big day. He kept his entire conference together except for one single vote. He basically dictated the survival of this government for another few days or weeks, at least, he avoided the shutdown. He personally made that happen in part by doing a procedural equivalent of a filibuster talking for nearly an hour to give his conference members a chance both to strategize, but also to read the bill.
They prevented what had been as recently as 48 hours ago, a 30 percent cut to some really important programs, so on values, on strategy, on cloud and on power for somebody who's not in the majority, he really kind of maximized his influence. And that's what skilled and savvy will do for you. This over -- this remaining question about Ukraine, of course, is going to be a real showdown at some point in the future. But the essentials, the basics, making sure that millions of federal workers don't suddenly have their lives turned upside down is a real win for the Democrats.
WHITFIELD: Alex, you're nodding in agreement. What are your thoughts?
BURNS: Well, look, I do agree with everything Errol said. And I do think on top of this sort of reasonably declaring victory, there was some assaulting the wound there, right? That this wasn't just saying Democrats held the line and the American people won it was also saying his term was complete and total surrender.
For what happened on the Republican side. I think that's we're going to see in the next couple of days how much there has been a complete and total surrender if Kevin McCarthy passes this with mostly Democratic support, and there are no consequences from the far right then, yes, I think it'll be a fair statement to say that the far right has surrendered.
[15:50:00]
But, you know, we don't know yet whether that's going to happen. We do know that the Republican leadership surrendered in this staring contest and that's a very legitimate win for the Democratic Party. And in fact, I think one of the big questions it's hanging over the hill right now is, if there is an effort to boot out, McCarthy on the far right, would any Democrats vote to keep him as speaker because it would take five Republicans to kick him out, if all the Democrats also vote to kick him out?
And, you know, I don't know that this is what Leader Jeffries had in mind with his comments. But I do think if you read between the lines, you can hear a little bit of sort of articulating what it would take for Democrats to interact with Kevin McCarthy in a constructive way going forward, which is that emphasis on we're going to go back to bipartisan talks about spending, right?
But, you know, I don't think there's a whole lot of appetite among the Democrats I talked to, to bail out Kevin McCarthy, they get something really, really good in return.
WHITFIELD: Yes, that was a good catch, right. Hakeem Jeffries there, underscoring you know, we're going to continue to work in a bipartisan way, you know, continuing on a path to avoid extreme Republican shutdown. Yes, it is a read between the lines on that. It's also, you know, perhaps a bit of a compliment, you know, and a boost of support to the House Speaker, that while you have your detractors, and, you know, Kevin McCarthy talked about the 21.
He thinks, though, you know, eventually, you'll be in a position of welcoming them back in. Perhaps Alex, that was Hakeem Jeffries also saying, since you're you got me reading between the lines now, you know, saying that, OK, we can accomplish things as long as we continue to work together?
BURNS: Well, there has been, I mean, today was a sort of weird example of -- it's hard to say, working together when it was basically a last minute cave that, you know, sort of taking the one option, you have our left, right? But, you know, you talk to folks on the Hill, and particularly, people on the center left, center right, there's this incredible frustration that in a chamber that's this evenly divided, and with the Senate and the White House held by Democrats, it's extremely obvious just it doesn't take a particularly sophisticated political mind to see that if you're going to get anything of scale done, it needs to be done on a bipartisan basis.
And up to this point, the approach that speaker McCarthy and most Republicans have taken is not to do that, not to work on a bipartisan basis. But to try to find these what they see as leverage points, the debt limit vote, the vote to continue funding the government and try to sort of just strong arm Democrats on the White House into caving. And we saw today that approach isn't working.
WHITFIELD: Yes, I mean, it's not over, right? Senate still has to vote. But to that point, Errol, there -- I guess, there was it seemed like a minority did exert some pressure or, you know, seem to feel emboldened, that actually they can twist some arms that they can make things happen, even though they're the minority, it almost worked at least prior to the House vote today.
LOUIS: Sure. And look, and we're not at the end of this, you know, they really could just as Manu suggested they could come back in a few days, with a motion to vacate. And they could turn the whole House of Representatives and the U.S. government upside down all over again, just as they did at the start of his speakership. That's I wouldn't rule that out at all. There's also going to be this showdown over Ukraine aid, that's going to be a big fight, a big national fight.
There's this question about whether or not they're going to have sort of a frame the next round of elections, both for Congress and, frankly, for the White House around questions of border security, and what goes on there. So they've got a lot, you know, I mean, our system of government does allow a concerted, determined minority to exert quite a lot of influence. It didn't work for them today, but I wouldn't count them out by any means.
WHITFIELD: Do you see that the work is beginning already, even though there has yet to be a Senate vote, but the work is beginning already on securing those other things in the next package, because 45 days is going to come and go just like that Errol?
LOUIS: Oh, yes, sure. This -- we're going to be sitting around talking probably the weekend before Thanksgiving.
WHITFIELD: No, because the 17th is on a Friday. So we're not doing this again on a Saturday. Hopefully.
LOUIS: -- will there be a shutdown during or just before or just after Thanksgiving? You know, and it's a heck of a way to govern in. You know, look, let's keep in mind, Speaker McCarthy shook hands with the President of the United States back in May. They had a deal. And the fact that that deal is now either being reneged on or some think that the speaker can or should alter it in some fundamental way. I think that's what got so many members, including a lot of Republicans in the House so very, very upset it's hard enough to govern under the best of circumstances.
[15:55:03]
But if you're going to shake hands and then try and alter the deal somewhere down the road I think everybody kind of turns on you. And that really explains a lot of what we saw today as well.
WHITFIELD: That can be very bruising on your credibility. All right, let's go to the White House. Alex. Errol, thank you so much, really appreciate you sticking around giving me all of your insight.
Kayla Tausche is there at the White House. So Kayla, any kind of reaction coming from the White House, any thoughts on what the road ahead might potentially look like?
TAUSCHE: Well, it remains, Fred, to be seen exactly when the Senate is expected to vote on that short term spending bill that passed the House. But we do know according to our own reporting, that the White House would likely support that compromise bill and sees it as a win because it doesn't include the steep cuts to government programs up to 30 percent across the board that were included in previous versions, it does offer disaster relief funding and authorization for the FAA.
And they do believe that speaker McCarthy will make good on a promise to support Ukraine through new funding in some future measure going forward. Now to that end, Fred, we're also learning that top Pentagon officials warned lawmakers in a letter yesterday and in conversations over the last few days that funds for Ukraine were running out and that there would be disruptions on the battlefield and in the country's readiness to fight against Russia if they did not include new funding in this short term bill. Of course, it is not included. So we expect some more dire warnings on that front.
WHITFIELD: All right. Kayla Tausche from the White House, thank you so much.
Thanks to everybody for joining us today from Capitol Hill, our guests et cetera. It was quite the whirlwind. A lot going on today. We're going to continue our coverage here on CNN. Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. Newsroom right now with Jim Acosta.
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