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Fate of Shutdown In Senate After Last-Minute Bill Clears House; Interview With Rep. Brendan Boyle (D-PA); Interview With Rep. Seth Moulton (D-MA); MANCHIN: Senate Likely To Vote On House Bill; GOP Hardliners Expected To Force Vote On Ousting McCarthy; Trump Makes Crack About Paul Pelosi, Gets Big Laughs; Barbara Boxer, (D), Former U.S. Senator From California, Discusses the Late Sen. Dianne Feinstein & Upcoming Senate Vote to Avoid Government Shutdown; Tributes Pour In For Jimmy Carter Ahead of 99th Birthday. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired September 30, 2023 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:01:10]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: You are live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

I'm Jim Acosta in Washington. Good evening.

It is 5:00 p.m. up on Capitol Hill. Just seven hours to go to avert a midnight shutdown of the federal government that would hurt millions of Americans.

A short time ago, lawmakers in the House took a step back from the brink.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The yeas are 335. the nays are 91. Two-thirds being in the affirmative. The rules are suspended. The bill is passed and without objection, the motion to reconsider is laid on the table.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: The House surprisingly passed a bipartisan short-term spending bill. The stop gap measure would provide 45 days of government funding and includes federal disaster relief assistance as the White House had requested, but it does not include aid to Ukraine, which has been a top priority for president Biden.

All but one House Democrat supported the measure, along with more than 120 Republicans. It now heads over to the Senate.

And CNN's Manu Raju joins us live up on Capitol Hill. Manu, I understand, you've got some new reporting on where things stand on the Senate side because we're not out of the woods yet.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. But it looks like it's going to happen, Jim. That is -- the Senate is expected to vote to approve the House bill, and that's expected potentially soon, maybe even --

ACOSTA: Wow.

RAJUA: -- within the next hour. That's what Senator Joe Manchin just told me moments ago. He was leaving a Democratic caucus meeting where they were discussing the strategy, trying to figure out what is next and whether they should accept the House plan, which was approved overwhelmingly in the House -- a majority of House Republicans supported this, as well as all but -- 90 House Republicans voted against it, just one House Democrat voted against it. It would be very difficult for the Senate to simply just walk away from this plan, even though it does not many of the provisions that senators from both parties wanted namely $6.2 billion in aid to Ukraine. That was what the Senate was moving towards. They were trying to move a bipartisan proposal that included aid to Ukraine.

Kevin McCarthy ultimately decided to forego amid divisions within his own conference. But McCarthy backtracked significantly, retreated from his position to demand spending cuts and border security measures, dropped all of that in this bill, which would be a straight extension of government funding for the next 45 days.

After it was approved in the House, now it's sitting here in Senate. In order to move forward with a vote in the Senate, it requires all 100 members to agree on a vote. One senator can object. If he or she were to object, it could drag out the process past the midnight deadline.

That is not expected. Even the Republicans who typically vote against continuing resolutions, these stop gap measures are indicating that they don't plan to drag out the process.

And Manchin's indication there, it's pretty clear that Democrats believe they have really no choice but to move ahead and approve this House bill, pulling Washington back from the brink of a shutdown, amid all these fears that that would happen, given the divisions within the GOP ranks.

But Jim, the political fallout is only just beginning for the Speaker of the House. He had indicated for some time that he wanted to try to get this through on Republican votes alone. That didn't happen among push-back from the right.

Those same members warned him, if he cut a deal with Democrats or allowed Democrats to vote for this bill, put a bill on the floor that Democrats could carry essentially carry across the finish line, that could be enough to end his speakership.

So that fight over his future is almost certain to play out in the days ahead. The question is, will those members on the far right have the votes to push him out? How will the Speaker respond? He's indicating he's ready for a fight within his own party in the aftermath of this move, Jim.

ACOSTA: Sure looks like it.

All right. Manu Raju, we know you have more reporting to do. Jump back in if you get something, we'll take it. Manu, thank you very much.

As Manu just mentioned, Democratic support was key to getting House Speaker Kevin McCarthy a victory in the House earlier today.

[17:04:56]

ACOSTA: I want to bring in one of those Democrats, Pennsylvania Congressman and ranking member of the House Budget Committee Brendan Boyle. Congressman, great to see you.

Just curious, why -- why help McCarthy out here? Why did you guys decide to do that in the end?

REP. BRENDAN BOYLE (D-PA): Well, in the end, it's not about Kevin McCarthy, it's about the American people. I voted, as did over 99 percent of House Democrats and about half of House Republicans to ensure that we didn't have a government shutdown, which really would have been devastating for the American people.

You would have had millions of people going to work on Monday but without pay, including our men and women in our Armed Forces. So, the responsible vote here was a vote to keep the government funded.

And I believe the Senate will pass that as well, before midnight tonight so it can be signed into law by the president.

ACOSTA: And I guess one of the items that upset at least one Democrat and it certainly upset others, they voted for the continuing resolution at the end of the day. But we were talking to Jake Auchincloss your colleague in the House earlier this afternoon, and he indicated he was not happy with the funding to Ukraine being stripped out of the legislation. Mike Quigley, he was the one House Democrat who did vote against it because of that.

What are your thoughts on that? Is it going to be a fight to get that funding passed ultimately, to help the fight against the Russians in Ukraine?

BOYLE: That was really the only major provision that I was disappointed in that it was not included. My understanding in my own conversations with senior DOD officials is that we will be able to get through the next six weeks and still fulfill our commitments to those who are freedom fighters in Ukraine, standing up to brutal Russian aggression.

But let's be clear, come a permanent funding solution beyond November 17th, we absolutely need to ensure that we are continuing to fund the war effort. Otherwise Putin will win this war, which is bad for Europe and bad for the United States.

ACOSTA: Well, that's what Mike Quigley was saying -- he was talking to our Manu Raju and some of our other colleagues earlier this afternoon. And he was saying that this was a win for Putin.

Do you see it that way, too? That this funding did not get included in this legislation today, that this is a win for Putin? BOYLE: You know, the reality is we now see, and this is a critical

moment, a slight majority of House Republicans as they voted last night and showed again today, a slight majority of them are against funding the war effort in Ukraine.

Fortunately, 100 percent of Democrats, as well as, I think, still a majority of Senate Republicans are in favor of standing up to Putin.

So, I am confident that come mid-November and the next fiscal year, we will ensure that funding for the Ukrainian war effort is there. But certainly, as time goes on, and the MAGA caucus continues to grow and Donald Trump continues to cheerlead from the sidelines for Russia, it will continue to be a struggle here to ensure that the United States of America leads the transatlantic alliance in standing up to Putin.

ACOSTA: And what about the fate of the House Speaker Kevin McCarthy? Did it surprise you at all that he reached out to House Democrats today and said we might need you guys on this? Was there any indication from the Speaker's office that this was coming down the pike? And do you think McCarthy keeps his job?

BOYLE: Well, I have to say, I'm a little more concerned about the jobs of the millions of people who would have been impacted by a shutdown than I am the job of one individual around here.

The whole reason why we ended up having this fiasco and coming right up against the deadline in the first place is because Kevin McCarthy was so afraid to do what he finally did today. And I am glad that he finally agreed to put this bill on the House floor. As I mentioned, almost every single House Democrat voted for it, and about half of House Republicans.

But the underlying issue is that the House Republicans continue to be so badly divided that they continue to have these recurring issues. Their dysfunction is actually impacting the ability to pass legislation around here.

We saw it with the debt ceiling and we saw it with this. It delays things until the very last second, causing completely unnecessary disruptions.

ACOSTA: And I guess because of the way things played out today and the Speaker ultimately did reach out to House Democrats to get this stop gap spending measure passed. Does that -- I guess -- I guess lay out a scenario where perhaps House Democrats might support the speaker to keep him in that position, because he is willing to work with Democrats, ultimately, to get this kind of must-pass legislation through the Congress because you could end up with somebody else who might not do that.

[17:09:51]

BOYLE: Let's be clear, he at the last second finally had to work with us. But the whole reason why we're in this position to begin with is because he completely reneged on the agreement he made with us, Senate Republicans, Senate Democrats and the White House back in June. That's the whole reason why we ended up being here at the 11th hour.

So, I have to say, when it comes to me personally, and I think a lot of my fellow House testimony Democrats, I would feel highly uncomfortable reaching any sort of agreement with Kevin McCarthy because his track record simply is that he breaks agreements, whether it's with House Democrats, or frankly a number of the members of his own caucus.

ACOSTA: All right. Democratic Congressman Brendan Boyle of Pennsylvania, thank you very much for your time. We appreciate it.

BOYLE: Thank you.

ACOSTA: And the breaking news this hour, Senator Joe Manchin, West Virginia Democrat, suggesting the Senate could vote on the House bill to avert a government shutdown by midnight tonight. That vote could come in the next hour or so, according to our Manu Raju. We're going to stay on top of that.

A busy day here in the CNN NEWSROOM. We'll be right back.

[17:10:54]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: Back to our breaking news.

The House has passed a stop gap spending bill. It now heads to the Senate and would also need the president's signature before midnight to avoid a government shutdown.

Let's talk about this now with Democratic Congressman Seth Moulton of Massachusetts. Congressman, thanks very much for joining us.

It's not always pleasant watching the sausage get made up on Capitol Hill. I guess today was -- today was one of those days over in the House.

What happened? Why did you and your fellow Democrats ultimately work with the House Speaker to get this done?

REP. SETH MOULTON (D-MA): Because this is what Democrats always do. We always bail out the Republicans at the last minute when they can't get their own act together and properly fund the government.

We did the right thing for the American people, because of how many thousands and thousands of families were about to go without money to put food on the table. We did the right thing for our troops, who were worried about whether they will get paid in the few weeks if we had a government shutdown.

But of course, the chaos within the Republican Party continues. And when I was in the House gym this morning early on, talking to Republicans about what was going to happen today, at 7:00 or 8:00 in the morning, they had no idea. So, this was a very chaotic day.

ACOSTA: So, it sounds like this was sort of a last-minute escape hatch for the House Speaker?

MOULTON: Absolutely. And thank goodness he did the right thing by putting this bill on the floor, that Democrats and Republicans could vote for, but it was far from perfect.

And obviously, the big thing missing from this compromise bill is funding for Ukraine. Funding not just for Ukraine's national security, but the smartest investment that we can make today in our national security.

And so, while the American people and federal employees and our troops were watching what would happen today on Capitol Hill, make no mistake, Vladimir Putin had a really good day. He was watching this, too. Xi Jinping over in China who's made clear his ambitions to take over Taiwan, he was watching this, too. He had a good day, seeing Americans fail to support Ukraine.

That means that when we get back to work next week, we've got to make funding Ukraine a priority.

ACOSTA: Well, and I just want to ask you this, because there's a Twitter post from former Congresswoman Liz Cheney, who I know many Democrats thought she was acting very courageously during the January 6th Committee hearings.

But she said this today, "Members who are voting to deny Ukraine assistance on the 85th anniversary of Neville Chamberlain's 1938 Peace in Our Time speech should read some history. Appeasement didn't work then, it won't work now."

It sounds like, Congressman, that you and Liz Cheney are on the same page on this front.

MOULTON: That's right.

ACOSTA: Just not to the point where you could grind the government to a halt over this one particular issue. And do you have confidence that this is going to get passed, this funding for Ukraine will get passed ultimately?

MOULTON: Look, Liz Cheney is totally right and you don't always hear Seth Moulton saying that Liz Cheney is right. But we're very much on the same page here.

We cannot appease Russia. I think both of us are wondering when the Republican Party became the pro-Russia, pro-Putin party. And yet that's what you saw on display today.

But at the end of the day, we needed to get through this shutdown. A shutdown is not good for our national security. A shutdown is not good for Ukraine, either. If we had plowed into a shutdown, we wouldn't have been providing Ukraine funding under that scenario, as well.

So, this was the right thing to do, but am I confident we can get Ukraine the funding? I'm not confident, because my concern is, is Republicans. Republicans who sit in classified briefings with us on the House Armed Services Committee, completely agree with the Ukraine policy and then get out on TV and say something different and take votes like you've seen this week.

ACOSTA: And so, did Democrats, to some extent, get jammed today in the House? Were you forced to vote for something to some extent that you had to?

MOULTON: I wouldn't put it that way. Because at the end of the day, you never vote on a perfect piece of legislation. I don't think I've voted on a perfect piece of legislation in my time in Congress. There are always some compromised to make.

But the concern over this particular compromise, the concern over not getting Ukraine what they need to continue fighting this criminal war, and ultimately standing up for the security of the western world. That's why it's an investment in our national security. A really smart investment to support Ukraine today in this fight. You know, that is a big concern.

And there's no question that it's going to have to be a priority that we need to address in the next two weeks, when we're going to be back in Washington.

ACOSTA: Another Republican that you may not agree with very much, Tim Burchett who is still in the House of Representatives, he said in the last hour here on CNN that in the House, lawmakers may be in the exact same spot 45 days from now that you are today.

Let's listen to a bit of that and I'll ask you about it on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. TIM BURCHETT (R-TN): The reality is we should have been here the entire month of august. September 30th, you know, if you check your calendar, that comes around every time this year, and we just -- we just kicked the can down the road 45 more days.

[17:19:58]

BURCHETT: And guess what? We'll pick it up at about the 40th day and start doing something, and then we'll be back up against, what is that, it's right up against Thanksgiving. Imagine that.

ACOSTA: Right. Yes, Imagine that.

BURCHETT: And then in 30 days -- yes, 30 days and we're into Christmas, then what are we doing there?

Let's pass an omnibus bill for 60 days or six months or whatever. Let's just sit down and do our job and quite hiding all this stuff. The American public, Democrats and Republicans, are tired of it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: What do you think, Congressman? Do you agree with that? MOULTON: Look, I don't agree with Timmy about everything, but I

certainly agree with him about his analysis on September 30th. It does come around every year. We know exactly when it's going to happen.

And he's right. Look, the Republican Congress should have been passing appropriations bills over the last six to eight months. This is the responsibility of governing if you control the House of Representatives.

Over in the Senate, where Democrats have narrow control, they've been doing this. They have not only been passing appropriations bills, they've been doing it in a cooperative, bipartisan manner.

That's what Kevin McCarthy should be doing in the House. Instead, of course, he's just been catering to the most extreme members of his caucus, really subservient to this dangerous far right wing of the Republican Party that's really controlling the debate.

Now, today was an exception, he came to the middle. Let's see if he can continue doing that for the rest of the year. If he does that, then we might actually do our job and get the government properly funded.

ACOSTA: Well, I was just asking Brendan Boyle this, and I'll put the question to you, maybe you heard it and you already know what you might say, but because Kevin McCarthy showed a willingness today to work with Democrats to get this passed today, does that make you perhaps more on the side of wanting to keep him as the speaker of the House as opposed to, if he gets thrown overboard and somebody else comes in, more of a hard liner, perhaps that's somebody that you can't work with. Is that going to have to be part of the calculation from some of your members in the Democratic caucus?

MOULTON: Well look, I voted against Kevin McCarthy 15 times, that's how long it took him to get elected speaker and I'd be proud to vote against him for a 16th time. But you're right that there is concern that whoever replaces him could be even further to the right.

Now, what Kevin McCarthy has to show, though, is that he's genuinely willing to work with Democrats, and that he's not going to pull things like he did today, where he put this 80-plus page bill on the floor, giving us 15 minutes to read it. That's not good bipartisanship work.

Kevin McCarthy made a deal on government funding with the president of the United States several months ago, and he's reneged on that deal. So, the issue is not just that Kevin McCarthy is conservative or moderate in the Republican Party, the question is whether we can trust him, you know.

I work with Republicans that I can trust. I passed (INAUDIBLE) the [overtalking] with Chris Stewart of Utah, a Republican I could trust. I don't agree with Chris on everything, but we could work together on a really important bill for the country.

The question a lot of Democrats have is can we genuinely work with Kevin McCarthy, or is he continuing his practice of making conflicting promises to a lot of different people?

ACOSTA: All right, Democratic Congressman Seth Moulton, thank you very much for your time. We appreciate it.

MOULTON: Thank you, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right. And all eyes are now on the Senate this evening because senators will have to decide if they want to keep the government open or shut it down.

Next our political heavyweights step into the ring -- John Avlon and Margaret Hoover, there they are right there. They're not in Washington, which is good for them, but we'll talk to them next.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

[17:23:20]

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ACOSTA: All right. We're keeping an eye on Capitol Hill right now, as members of Congress are working on avoiding a government shutdown.

A stop gap spending measure passed the House earlier this afternoon, and now it moves over to the Senate. Senator Joe Manchin of West Virginia has said that a vote could take place on this House bill, on this stop gap spending measure, within the next hour. So, we're going to keep our eyes on that.

But in the meantime, plenty to discuss with John Avlon and Margaret Hoover. They join us now to bring all of this into perspective for us.

John, let me go to you first. I mean, when we woke up this morning, we thought, when the clock hit midnight tonight, we were going to be in the middle of a government shutdown. And then all of a sudden, the House speaker Kevin McCarthy reaches out to Democrats and they get this bill through the House.

Not everybody likes what's in this bill. Obviously, the funding for Ukraine being excluded is a problem for some Republicans and a whole lot Democrats. Your sense of how this played out today.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Look, I think the only way that government works at the end of the day is when people reach out to the center. We learned this over and over again. You know, every shutdown the last 30 years has happened when the Republicans control the House. And the only way we get out of these ditches, these self- inflicted ditches, is when Republicans reach out to Democrats and they band together, excluding usually the far-right of the Republican Party, which is what happened again today. It's what happened with the debt ceiling fight earlier in the year.

So it's good to see that cooler heads prevailed. It's far from perfect, kicks the can 45 days. But it's better than another self- inflicted shutdown. And it happened because Democrats worked with McCarthy to stop our government from failing itself. ACOSTA: And Margaret, Kevin McCarthy when he was speaking to reporters

earlier today said somebody had to be the adult in the room. Is that -- is that what happened? Was he the adult in the room?

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That's exactly what happened. And he did it at a real cost to himself. I mean, for -- it's easy for us to sit here and say, obviously the responsible thing to do is to pass a continuing resolution to continue to fund the government.

But what this does for his speakership is really precarious. He has had a bad week. It doesn't look good when -- I mean, it's a bad thing that this extremist faction in the House of Representatives has so much control, but they do.

[17:29:53]

HOOVER: And he has now taken basically three hits this week. He lost -- he's going to lose a seat in Alabama because of redistricting. He's going to be right back here in 45 days to the, you know, begrudgement (ph) of all of us, because they couldn't go any further and he made everybody stay in town all week taking votes.

And you know, Matt Gaetz would have probably filed a no vote -- a vote of no confidence, had they not adjourned so quickly.

ACOSTA: Yes.

HOOVER: It is -- it doesn't endear them that he had to, in order to get this done, get a bunch of Democrats on his side. This is --

AVLON: But good for him.

(CROSSTALK)

HOOVER: Good for him for doing that.

(CROSSTALK)

HOOVER: And he has 45 more days to figure out how to get another 45 days.

ACOSTA: There is that.

I guess, John, the question is, is Kevin McCarthy the adult in the room, or the adult in the romper room? I mean, he has a big problem on his hands in the coming days.

It sounds as though Congressman Matt Gaetz, on the Republican side, is going to continue to have this grudge against the House speaker. And as we all know, it just takes one vote to get the process started to remove him as speaker of the House.

AVLON: It does. And it might not -- you know, but -- that may start the process, but it doesn't cobble together a majority to knock him off. We've got to stop having comparatively small number of folks on the

far right that have disproportionate power and destabilize our government. Especially when the grudge seems to be even more personal than political.

We need to have speakers with bipartisan support. It's the only way things get done anyway. Democrats have control and pass bipartisan bills, or Republican speakers reply on the Democrat votes to get things done in the national interest.

Because the far right of their own party is holding everybody hostage. This is not a sane way to control government. The Republicans have to fix the problem in their House.

If they don't, good for Kevin McCarthy for reaching out. But we need to recognize the fact the only way things get done is when the center holds. Full stop.

ACOSTA: Yes. No question.

And, Margaret, let me ask you this, because there are a lot of Democrats who were upset about the exclusion of funding for Ukraine in this continuing resolution that got through the House and is going to avoid a government shutdown.

Democrats seem to be saying, well, we have assurances, and the White House says we have assurances this is going to happen sometime before the end of the year and so on.

But really? Can you really be sure of that? I mean, Mike Quigley, the Democratic congressman from Illinois, earlier today was calling this a win for Putin. Not a good look.

HOOVER: It's not a good look. And it looks like the Senate's going to have a difficult time with the Ukraine funding, as well.

So, it's -- it isn't a good look for democracy or for the West remaining united against Putin. It's a bad day when it comes to U.S. support for Ukraine, for sure.

AVLON: And I think Liz Cheney made a great comment, noting it's the anniversary of the Neville Chamberlain speech. One of the lessons at home and abroad, especially at home, appeasement doesn't work. It only invites further aggression.

ACOSTA: And I wanted to, if we can, leave the stuff that's happening up on Capitol Hill for just a moment.

I wanted to get into this speech that former President Donald Trump made to the California Republican Party.

He made this wisecrack about the attack on Nancy Pelosi's husband, if -- he got a big laugh out of that. He also made the -- he also dropped an F-bomb in the speech. He continues to play on these worst impulses in his base. You know, John, I have to ask you this question, because, I mean,

obviously, the judge in the January 6th case here in Washington has been asked by the special counsel, you know, at what point is Trump stopped from getting into these kinds of incendiary comments?

He's made comments about the special counsel. Obviously, he's made comments about the judge. The special counsel, Jack Smith, pointing to the fact that Trump made these comments just the other day about Mark Milley, the former chairman of the Joint Chiefs, and how he should be executed.

I mean, I know we talked about this many times, but at some point, does the judge need to weigh in and stop this?

AVLON: You know, that -- that's a complicated question, because it does deal with the fact that Trump is begging for the judge to get involved so he can play the victim in another way.

But you've got to be tracking the -- the escalating rhetoric of incitement, the authoritarian impulses, saying General Milley should be executed, people who shoplift should be shot.

You know, dropping F-bombs about the incumbent president, you know, seeming to joke about an assault on the former speaker of the House's husband.

This is ugly -- the ugliest stuff you would expect from a demagogue who plays to the cheap seats.

But the Republican Party needs to figure out if they're really going to try to renominate this guy and appease this kind of authoritarian- adjacent aggression. Because that's what's happening right now.

You can't say you are a party of law and order, you can't say you're a party of decency or family values and then line up behind this guy.

ACOSTA: And, Margaret, your sense of it? One of the things you can say about Trump making this wisecrack about the attack on Paul Pelosi is that that was essentially an attack on one of Trump's political opponents.

[17:35:07]

I mean, the intended target of that attack was the House speaker at that time, Nancy Pelosi. Instead, it was her husband who bore the brunt of it.

But once again, it's Trump kind of egging people on when it comes to violence. And it -- it's going to lead to a dangerous place, once again, you have to think.

HOOVER: Yes, and what you hear from the Republican contestants who are running against him in the primary contest is -- nothing. And that's -- that's the part that's so concerning.

(CROSSTALK) AVLON: Chris Christie.

HOOVER: Yes, Chris Christie. Well, you haven't heard them all reject his comments from the other day, or about Milley, or even say it on the stage, by the way, in Ronald Reagan --

(CROSSTALK)

ACOSTA: What's the point of having these debates if they're not going take him on, even in his absence.

HOOVER: Well, they're taking him on, on policy. But the rhetoric, increasing the rhetoric that is violent, and especially the General Milley point, I understand previous, prior to January 6th, they were all afraid, but they are all still afraid.

And we've seen what that rhetoric can do, post-January 6th. And everybody --it's like the House is on fire and nobody realizes it. They are all just pretending we live in, you know, world, 1.0, where the normal political rules apply.

And they -- so, I mean, this is -- this is really concerning. And I think we are in a much deeper crisis on the right than I think most people are willing to admit.

AVLON: Yes. It's creating an atmosphere where -- this is being normalized and we're sleepwalking into the next election.

And people not calling this out on his side of the aisle also creates a sense that all politics is somehow dysfunctional and divided, so people will tune out. And that's a dangerous game to play in a democracy.

ACOSTA: Absolutely. No question about it.

Well, we'll continue to call it out, that's why I wanted to ask you guys about it, even during a busy day up on Capitol Hill.

John and Margaret, great to see you as always. Thanks a lot.

HOOVER: Thank you.

AVLON: Be well.

ACOSTA: And the late Senator Dianne Feinstein leaves a massive legacy behind. Former Senator from California, Barbara Boxer, who worked alongside Dianne Feinstein for more than 20 years, she joins us next here in the CNN NEWSROOM. Stay with us. There she is.

We'll be right back.

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[17:41:35]

ACOSTA: You're looking at live images of Capitol Hill right now, where flags are at half-staff, as the nation remembers the late Dianne Feinstein, Senator from California, who passed away over the last couple of days at the age of 90 years old.

And her legacy will certainly be felt by her fellow Democrats, who now hold an even slimmer majority in the United States Senate.

One of the last centrists in Congress, Feinstein was legendary for her willingness and ability to forge tough deals across the aisle.

Her former Senate colleague from California, Barbara Boxer, joins us now.

Senator, great to see you, as always.

I got to speak to you yesterday on CNN Max as all of this was unfolding and we were remembering Senator Feinstein yesterday.

But I did want to ask you, if you saw some of the news that came out this afternoon that former Speaker Nancy Pelosi will be accompanying Senator Feinstein on a military plane on her final journey home. I suppose that's how Senator Feinstein would have wanted it.

BARBARA BOXER, (D), FORMER U.S. SENATOR FROM CALIFORNIA: No question. No question. She had so much admiration for the speaker. I understand, also her daughter will be there. So, it's -- it's good.

But I also know that she would have been -- she would have been so happy to see the House, the sensible members come together to keep the government going.

Her last vote was essentially to do just that, and hours later, she passed. So, she knew, as she told us all, that the work has to get done. You don't shut government down.

You argue about what the issues should be, and how would you resolve them, and you come to a compromise. Nobody gets everything they want. You never do. You never can.

So --

ACOSTA: Yes.

BOXER: -- she would have been happy that this happened. I'm glad.

ACOSTA: Yes, I think you're absolutely right about that, that spirit of compromise, which, by the way, a lot of folks feel like have just left Washington and it's never to come back.

But every so often, we're reminded that it can happen, and it had happened over the years on several occasions, because of Senator Feinstein's leadership.

But on this issue of the shutdown, what are your thoughts today? I mean, it sounds as though you're OK with this compromise. Better to keep the government open than to shut it down and then god knows what happens after that. BOXER: Oh, absolutely. You have to keep it open. And you have to work

on Ukraine as a separate matter.

I believe there are super majorities to help Ukraine. But we cannot help Ukraine if we just shut down the entire government. So, this is a way to work on that issue.

Keep government open, working. That's what we are supposed to do.

But I have to tell you, Jim, somebody said this the other day, they said, the way that Republicans run things, it's like the show "Seinfeld."

They asked the people who wrote "Seinfeld" what's it about? They said, "It's about nothing."

And this is drama. The Republican Party, it's all "Seinfeld." It's nothing.

We already had an agreement. The Speaker McCarthy shook the hands of the president, they had the deal, and now he backed away.

And we have these days and days of people worrying if they're going to get paid. How are they going to take care of their families. This is a drama about nothing.

Same way with the impeachment. It's about nothing. They asked their own witnesses and the answer was, well, there's nothing on the president.

[17:45:07]

So, anyway, I think that Senator Feinstein got it. You come together, you continue to try to get everything you want, and you work for the people.

ACOSTA: Yes. There's no question about it.

And -- I guess -- how did that change and when did that change? Can you put your finger on it?

Why is it that up on Capitol Hill, compromise is such a dirty word? And you just can't get things done.

We were talking to Republican House member earlier on in this program who said, there's just no other way about it, we're going to be back in this same place 45 days from now, staring at the possibility of yet another government shutdown when this continuing resolution, this stopgap measure, runs out of steam.

Why is it that this town just can't compromise? And why is it so rare like it is today?

BOXER: They did it today. And my prediction is we're not going to see anymore shutdowns. Because they blinked. They blinked. And Speaker McCarthy, good, he finally realized, he's going to have

all the blame for a shutdown. And having gone through those shutdowns, they are painful.

But you asked me when the attitude started to change. And remember -- well, you wouldn't remember, but I remember. I got elected to the House in 1982 during the Reagan administration. Tip O'Neil and Ronald Reagan didn't agree on a thing, they loved each other.

And there was a different spirit across the aisle. When you could find agreement, you would move forward.

And then, Newt Gingrich came into the game. I wrote my memoir and I wrote about that, changed everything. His whole attitude was that Democrats, we have to paint them as unpatriotic and treasonous and baby killers and all these crazy things.

And he was so extreme and he tried to paint us as being extreme, and all the goodwill, you know, left.

I'll never forget, we had a big battle over shutting down the government over regulation. He wanted no health and safety regulation. And the women -- there were hardly any women then, 25 or so of us. He wanted to do away with regulations with mammograms and all kinds of things.

And we won that battle, but it got ugly after that, slowly but surely.

And again, bringing it back to my dear colleague, she had none of that. When we got elected, we didn't always agree. We came from different parts of the party. She was more to the center and I was more liberal.

And we knew from time to time we wouldn't agree, but we always said we'd have each other's back and we would care about each other and we wouldn't do anything that the other one didn't know about.

And that's the way I grew up in politics. Your word was your bond, and this wasn't personal. It was about the people, and what we need to do to make life better.

Barack Obama always says, we work for a more perfect union. It ain't there yet.

ACOSTA: Yes.

BOXER: One foot in front of the other, yes.

ACOSTA: Absolutely. Well, perhaps it's that spirit of compromise that Senator Feinstein displayed on a regular basis here in Washington that maybe greased the skids just a little bit here in Washington this weekend and got us through this.

BOXER: Well --

ACOSTA: We'll see. It's not over in the Senate yet, but we'll see. BOXER: Well, I think you're right, I think you're right.

And, Dianne, you have an impact even now.

ACOSTA: Absolutely.

Well, Senator Boxer, thank you so much for your time. We always enjoy talking to you. Really appreciate it.

We'll be right back.

Good to talk to you.

BOXER: Thanks.

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[17:53:13]

ACOSTA: Tomorrow, America's longest-living president, Jimmy Carter, turns 99 years old. The Carter Center in Atlanta was going to celebrate on Sunday but moved their event up to today because of the possibility of a government shutdown.

CNN's Isabel Rosales is at the Carter Center and joins us now.

Isabel, how is it going out there?

ISABEL ROSALES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Jim. The Jimmy Carter Presidential Library and Museum got the celebrations, as you mentioned, to give folks a chance to honor America's oldest-living president.

If a shutdown doesn't happen tonight -- and obviously, the clock is ticking, the ball is in the Senate's court -- the celebration to Jimmy Carters 99th birthday will continue tomorrow.

Earlier today, we saw crowds just pouring in, sharing tributes, sharing memories, writing birthday cards, eating birthday cake. Checking out his museum, one of the things that would be closed under a shutdown.

And on social media, sharing happy birthday messages, including celebrities and public figures like Jane Fonda, Willie Nelson and the Indigo Girls.

Now according to the National Archives, some of the nation's most beloved national museums, presidential libraries and parks, they would be closed under a government shutdown. This would include all Smithsonian museums and the National Zoo.

Although the press releases are saying they will remain open at least through next Saturday. That's thanks to money that they've had from prior years.

The national parks service said it plans to close most U.S. national parks. This is due to lessons learned from previous shutdowns. Trash piling up, toilets overflowing and acts of vandalism from the reduced workforce.

Visitors should expect, if a government shutdown were to happen, to see closed visitor centers, locked gates, and no trail or road updates as thousands of park rangers will be furloughed.

[17:55:04]

I did speak with a woman here in Atlanta. She came out to celebrate Jimmy Carter's birthday.

She said a government shutdown is also deeply personal to her because her husband is a federal worker. So if a shutdown happens, that means no paychecks for their family.

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIDGET WYNN, ATLANTA RESIDENT: They are hurting people. They're hurting innocent people, their jobs, their livelihoods, celebrations, all of that. And it is disgraceful.

It's like a looming dread is what I would describe it. You know it's coming. You've seen it before. It's just this looming dread as it shows up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROSALES: Yes, and I want to leave with you this, if we have the video to cue up. Jimmy and Rosalynn Carter, they made a public appearance last week riding through their hometown during the Plains Peanut Festival. So looking incredibly well there.

Of course, Jim, we know that he's been under hospice care for about seven months now.

ACOSTA: Yes. And we're showing that video now, Isabel. That was just a delightful scene there to see, in Plains, Georgia, the former president, Rosalynn Carter in the back of that SUV. Just wonderful.

And we, of course, wish President Carter a very happy 99th birthday.

Isabel Rosales, thank you very much. Really appreciate it.

All right, and all eyes are on the Senate right now where the fate of the government shutdown, as Isabel was just talking about, hangs in the balance.

Stay with us for updates on this developing story, affecting -- as she was saying, it's absolutely true, affecting millions of Americans. Those Americans now waiting to see the Senate get the job done.

Stay with us. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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