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CNN International: House Lawmakers Remove Speaker for First Time in History; McCarthy Voted Out, Says He Won't Run for Speaker Again; Trump Tells Reporters He Will Testify Later in Trial; 21 Dead After Bus Plunges from Bridge near Venice, Italy; Biden Coordinates with European Allies on Ukraine. Aired 4-4:30a ET

Aired October 04, 2023 - 04:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:00:00]

BIANCA NOBILO, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and a warm welcome to our viewers joining us in the United States and all around the world. I'm Bianca Nobilo.

MAX FOSTER, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Max Foster joining you live from London, just ahead on CNN NEWSROOM.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The office of Speaker of the House is hereby declared vacant.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a day we've never seen in American history.

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): I will not run for Speaker again.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Trump will you be testifying?

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yes, I will.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A gag order from Judge Arthur Engoron after Trump attacked the judge's clerk in a Truth Social post.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tragedy in Venice, 21 dead after a passenger bus plunges from a bridge.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two of the victims were children.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Live from London, this is CNN NEWSROOM with Max Foster and Bianca Nobilo.

FOSTER: It is Wednesday, October the 4th, 9:00 a.m. here in London, 4:00 a.m. in Washington, where the gears of government have essentially ground to a halt after the unprecedented ousting of U.S. Republican House Speaker Kevin McCarthy.

NOBILO: Tuesday's extraordinary vote, pushed by hardline conservatives, makes McCarthy the first house speaker voted out of a job in U.S. history. His 269-day speakership is now the shortest in more than 140 years. And the Republican Party has now plunged deeper into chaos.

FOSTER: This is extraordinary.

NOBILO: It truly is. I was watching it last night and it's staggering even by British parliamentary standards, which were quite raucous. I was shocked.

FOSTER: Yes, it's a low standard you're starting off with. Lawmakers will now meet to elect a new speaker, but there's no clear alternative. Who would have the support needed to win the gavel? And McCarthy says he'll not try for the speakership again.

NOBILO: McCarthy was removed from the nation's number three job amid growing infighting within his party. These eight Republicans revolted against him over his decision to work with Democrats to fund the government and avoid a shutdown. McCarthy blamed the Democrats for his removal, despite his fellow Republicans forcing the vote.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCCARTHY: I think today was a political decision by the Democrats and I think -- I think the things they have done in the past hurt the institution and they just started removing people from committee. They just started doing the other things and I my fear is the institution fell today. Because you can't do the job if eight people you have 94 percent -- or 96 percent of your entire conference, but eight people can partner with the whole other side. How do you govern? And for them to make a motion on me because I made a decision for the country -- that they agreed with. But they choose to do the other. That becomes a problem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBILO: With the White House -- with the House now likely out of session for the rest of the week, Republicans are expected to gather next Tuesday to consider possible candidates to replace McCarthy.

FOSTER: A number of names already being tossed around as CNN's Manu Raju reports from Washington.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Republicans struggling to figure out their way forward after today's historic vote kicking out Kevin McCarthy. The first time ever a sitting speaker of the House ejected from his seat by his own colleagues.

This vote coming after eight Republicans sided with all Democrats to kick him out. Kevin McCarthy could only afford to lose four Republicans. So he was unable to convince some of those members on the hard right in particular who were unhappy about some of his deal making. Really only two deals in particular.

One, to raise the national debt limit to avoid a debt default. He had to get a deal with the White House and Senate Democrats in order to get that through. Also, the other one, to avoid a government shutdown. That's something that he had cut over the weekend and allow Democrats to help push that through to avoid a potentially disastrous government shutdown. And just to keep the government open for another 45 days.

That was enough to lead Matt Gaetz, the Congressman from Florida, to lead the charge to seek Kevin McCarthy's ouster. He got the support of seven other Republican colleagues and enough to kick out McCarthy. In a startling move that really caught many of his own colleagues by surprise. Announcing that he would not be a candidate for speaker again -- Kevin McCarthy said that he would step aside. He told me that he could potentially name a get behind his successor, but he said wouldn't disclose who because he didn't know who would possibly run.

[04:05:00]

Now this all comes as tension is growing among those McCarthy allies going after some of those critics who pushed out Kevin McCarthy questioning whether they are true conservatives.

REP. AUSTIN SCOTT (R-GA): I think Kevin recognizes that nobody can meet their demands and the conference is going to have to figure out how we, how we deal with, you know, eight people that are here that candidly, aren't interested in governing, they're more interested in, you know, grifting.

REP. DERRICK VAN ORDEN (R-WI): Republicans, who have been claiming to be fiscal conservatives, just voted with every single Democrat in the House of Representatives. That would be the equivalent of every Republican voting for Nancy Pelosi. That's what they did.

RAJU: Mr. Jordan, how disappointed are you with the -- speak what happened here and Speaker McCarthy's decision?

REP: JIM JORDON (R-OH): I thought it was -- I thought it was unfair to unfair to Kevin. Kevin, I think he's done a fine job and he and I came in together. He's a good man and he didn't deserve this in my judgment.

RAJU: Will you run for Speaker?

JORDON: That's a decision for the conference.

RAJU: So are you open to it?

RAJU: And that last comment could be significant. Jim Jordan, who's House Judiciary Committee chairman, pointedly declined to say whether he would rule out running for speaker. He had typically in the past ruled out running for speaker. This is the first time he has indicated that he in fact, will run -- he is not ruling out the possibility of running for speaker. Saying that it is the conference decision. So we'll see what he ultimately decides.

But he could have a race. Kevin Hern, who's the chairman of the Republican Study Committee, the largest group of conservatives, is open to the idea of running. He's floating his name, according to sources that we have spoken to. Also, we'll see what Tom Emmer, the Republican whip, decides to do. Or if he gets behind Steve Scalise. He's the current number two, the House Majority Leader. Whether he decides to run for speaker.

So a lot of questions in this tumultuous moment for the GOP. Can they pick up the pieces? Can they get their agenda going? Can they avoid a government shutdown? All huge questions after Kevin McCarthy becomes the first speaker to meet his fate on the floor of the House.

Manu Raju, CNN, Capitol Hill.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: Some Democrats say Kevin McCarthy brought this reckoning upon himself. Here's how Congressman Eric Swalwell described the situation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ERIC SWALWELL (D-CA): Well, it's the right decision because he's brought chaos to the country and it's the first time in nine months where I've seen him put the country in front of his own job. But you know, just stepping back and thinking about like, what my constituents think of this? They think it's tragic.

And they look at the failures that MAGA GOP has put upon us and they see this bucket of crabs that keeps trying to pull the rest of the country down into the chaos that they crave. And they see that. Although Republicans are the majority party in the house, they're working as an opposition party, they're opposed within themselves and they're opposed to just getting things done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBILO: Meanwhile, some Republicans who are vulnerable in next year's election say they're worried the leadership crisis in their party will hurt their chances at the polls and ultimately holding the majority in the House. CNN senior political analyst Ron Brownstein says McCarthy's ouster shows many hardline conservatives will not tolerate a Republican leader who makes vital bipartisan deals with the Democrats.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: The lesson here is that there is a portion of the Republican Conference that feels that it has to be seen always taking every confrontation to the max. And that any form of collaboration or cooperation or compromise with Democrats really is another word capitulation. And you know this decapitation of the House leadership is going to loom over whoever replaces McCarthy and how they approach this next government shutdown.

Because, you know, it is pretty ironic that Kevin McCarthy is taken down on the grounds that he was insufficiently committed to confronting and combating Democrats. I mean, if you look at his record, there are a lot of things you can accuse Kevin McCarthy of, but the idea that he was some sort of rampant deal maker with the two big exceptions is pretty far fetched. (END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: Now, without a speaker, absolutely nothing will get done in the U.S. House. Republicans have gone on recess until next week as they scramble to find a path forward.

NOBILO: Sources say they will return on Tuesday for a conference meeting before a potential vote later next week on electing a new speaker, the House will once again have to vote as many times as it takes for a candidate to secure 218 votes.

Former U.S. President Donald Trump says he will be back in court today for day three of his civil fraud trial in New York.

FOSTER: And in the coming hours, the first witness, Trump's long-time accountant, Donald Bender, will be back on the witness stand for more cross examination from Trump's attorney. On Tuesday, during a break in proceedings, the former president answered this question from reporters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Trump, will you be testifying?

TRUMP: Yes, I will and at the appropriate time I will be.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Well, Trump is on the witness list for both sides in the case. After a 45-minute delay in Tuesday's afternoon session, the judge reprimanded Trump for attacking his clerk in a social media post.

[04:10:00]

NOBILO: But despite the rebuke, it remains uncertain whether Trump will stop making such public comments. CNN's Brynn Gingras reports from New York.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Gag order issued by this judge against the defendants in this case, all because of a Truth Social post by the former president. It was a picture of the judge's clerk with Senate Majority Leader, Chuck Schumer. And in that post, the former president basically claiming without evidence, that she is Schumer's girlfriend.

Well, this clearly crossed the line for the judge. When court resumed in the afternoon he discussed the matter, saying that there was disparaging and untrue and personally identifiable picture that was posted of a member of his staff. He ordered that it be deleted. But he said that it was already sent to millions of people. And he said this, quote:

Personal attacks of any member of my court staff are unacceptable, inappropriate and I will not tolerate them. And after that he said that none of the defendants could speak

publicly about anyone on his staff. So remember, this is the same judge who will be calling all the shots, determining damages in this trial. And the president clearly going too far on this one. A gag order now issued against him on just day two of the civil trial.

I'm Brynn Gingrass, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NOBILO: A Tennessee State lawmaker who was expelled from the legislature is accusing the States House Speaker of suppressing his right to free speech in a federal lawsuit. Representative Justin Jones -- on the left there -- claims Cameron Sexton blocked him from expressing views on critical issues which violate the First Amendment.

FOSTER: A joint Democrat was removed from his seat in April after he and two other Democrats called for gun reform. He was reappointed shortly after that and won back the seat in a special election. But Jones is now asking the court to prevent Sexton from curbing his speech, reinstate his committee appointments and declare his removal unconstitutional.

Police in Baltimore, Maryland, say five people have been shot in the campus of Morgan State University. In a news conference earlier, officials said four of the victims were students at the school. All five are expected to survive.

NOBILO: A shelter in place order has been lifted even though police say they're still searching for the shooter. Baltimore's mayor says the shooting should be a wake-up call for the entire country.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRANDON SCOTT, BALTIMORE, MARYLAND MAYOR: It reminds us all again that we are dealing with not just here in Baltimore and not just at Morgan State University, but across this country of the United States, an epidemic when it comes to guns and gun violence. And it's time for us to get serious about that, not just at the local level, where we've recovered over 2100 guns, but at the national level. We have to stop saying not one more. We need action now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBILO: In northern Italy, at least 21 people have been killed because a bus passenger bus careered off a bridge near Venice. Two of the victims were children.

FOSTER: Italian authorities say eighteen others were injured when the bus broke through the wall of an overpass before falling to the ground and catching fire. Now they're working to determine what caused the crash.

NOBILO: CNN senior international correspondent Ben Wedeman is following these developments and he joins us now live from Rome. Ben, this is such a tragic incident. I've been looking at the Italian media this morning. People describing the scene as apocalyptic. What more can you tell us about how the victims are doing? Those that have been moved to hospital and also any preliminary investigation into what may have caused this.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we understand that among the victims, there are children. And the victims were sort of sent to a variety of hospitals in the area. But this happened just before 8:00 p.m. yesterday evening when this bus, which was an electric bus, crashed through the guardrail and fell 15 meters down to railroad tracks below.

Now the investigation is only just beginning. The prosecutor for the city of Venice has begun an investigation. They are looking now at the CCTV footage of that bridge where the accident took place.

Now there are a variety of hypotheses they're looking at. One of them is that perhaps the driver who is a 40-year-old Italian citizen with six or seven years of experience, may have been ill. Now it's also been pointed out that when the bus crashed to the ground, it burst into flame. There's some speculation that perhaps the large electric battery may have had something to do with the fact that so many people were killed by the flames themselves.

[04:15:00]

Now among the victims, we understand there are Ukrainians, French, German, Croatian, Austrian and Spanish citizens, but not all of the victims have been identified so far -- Bianca.

NOBILO: Ben Wedeman for us in Rome. Thank you so much for bringing us the latest update.

FOSTER: Still ahead, U.S. President Joe Biden lining up European support for Ukraine as funding from the U.S. Congress remains in limbo.

NOBILO: Plus, NATO's top military leader says ammunition for Ukraine has reached the bottom of the barrel. How he wants to fix that problem.

FOSTER: And later, U.S. auto workers have been on strike for almost three weeks now and the losses are adding up. Details on what this strike is costing the economy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: The Pentagon says it has enough funding to continue to support Ukraine for the time being, but that could run out unless Congress takes action.

NOBILO: Meanwhile, the White House is trying to ease allies' fears after funding for Kyiv was not included in that last minute deal to avoid a government shutdown. CNN's Alex Marquardt reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: At a time when American support for Ukraine's fight against Russia is somewhat uncertain, the White House is now expressing confidence that most members of Congress will continue to support Ukraine.

[04:20:00]

The White House announced earlier on Tuesday that President Joe Biden had held a call with various allies to coordinate ongoing aid for Ukraine. Those on the call included the Prime Minister of Canada, the head of NATO, as well as some in the European leadership. And the White House's John Kirby, a spokesman for the National Security Council, he told reporters that, quote, we cannot under any circumstances allow America's support for Ukraine to be interrupted. Here's a little bit more of. What Kirby had to say.

JOHN KIRBY, U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL COMMUNICATIONS COORDINATOR: The President reaffirmed the strong commitment of the United States to supporting Ukraine as it defends itself for as long as It takes. As did every other leader on the call.

The leaders discussed efforts to continue providing Ukraine with the ammunition and the weapons systems that it needs to defend its territory and to continue strengthening Ukrainian air defenses as they prepare for more attacks on critical infrastructure. Now certainly, but also certainly in the winter months ahead.

MARQUARDT: This comes as the Biden administration is escalating its efforts to pressure Ukraine to crack down on corruption. According to multiple U.S. officials who spoke with CNN, there have been several notices, two key in the past few weeks. Indicating that certain kinds of U.S. economic aid will be linked to Ukraine's progress in reforming its institutions.

The State Department even issued what is known as a demarche. It's a diplomatic note to Ukraine in the late summer, which said that the U.S. expects Ukraine to continue pursuing various anti-corruption and financial transparency efforts in order to keep receiving direct budget support. That is different, however, than military aid.

In response, Ukraine's embassy here in Washington, DC told CNN that Ukraine has moved ambitiously they said to pass reforms and, quote, we have conducted these reforms initiated by Ukraine with the help and support from the U.S., EU and other friends.

The embassy added that Ukraine delivers on this front.

Alex Marquardt, CNN at the State Department.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: NATO's top military official is warning that Western allies are running out of ammunition to give to Ukraine. Admiral Bob Bauer says, quote: The bottom of the barrel is now visible and the industry needs to step up production. NOBILO: The U.K. Armed Services Minister James Heappey echoed the warning during the same panel discussion at the annual Warsaw Security Conference. He says Western allies can't stop giving just because stockpiles are getting thin, although practically he is acknowledging the issue there.

FOSTER: They can't stop giving if they don't have it. The European Union is stepping up with a large aid package for Ukraine. CNN's Nada Bashir joins us with details. Yesterday was talking about, you know, all of this extra money that the European Union is promising -- while it's in doubt in America. But now we're literally talking about not enough equipment being around to send to Ukraine.

NADA BASHIR, CNN REPORTER: Absolutely, and in in the midst of this conversation, we are seeing the EU trying to put forward this image that they are stepping up to that challenge, that they will be backing Ukraine for the long run. And of course, this is set to be a lengthy counteroffensive. And these concerns around weapons shortages amongst NATO allies in terms of the supplies being offered to Ukraine is a huge issue.

We know that the Ukrainian armed forces is heavily reliant on that support and that funding, and particularly when it comes to ammunition on its western NATO allies. And we heard yesterday from EU lawmakers adopting a now a multi-year funding package for Ukraine set to take place over four years, worth up to $52 billion. So this is a significant package and it is crucially a long-term commitment to supporting Ukraine. Which is the message that we have seen being put across by European leaders. They do intend to stick by Ukraine for the long run.

And of course, we saw that call yesterday between President Joe Biden and his G7 and NATO partners. He once again reiterated that he, in his view, will stick by Ukraine and Washington will not turn its back on Kyiv. But of course, with these questions around the U.S. budget and questions around the additional funding that is being protected in the new U.S. budget, there is concern amongst Ukrainian officials and of course, among amongst Ukrainian soldiers on the front lines who are dependent on this ammunition and on these weapons.

And as you mentioned there, NATO now issuing that warning that they are seeing the bottom of the barrel, that production of this ammunition really needs to be stepped up at a much faster pace. And of course, we know that the counteroffensive has been going somewhat slower than many would have anticipated or hoped.

And of course, we are nearing the more difficult winter months, which could pose a significant challenge to the Ukraine armed forces on the frontlines. So this is a huge concern. But as far as the European Union is concerned, as far as EU leaders are concerned, they intend to stick by Ukraine. And what we're seeing is a boost in funding and also a boost in the indications that they are hopeful Ukraine will move towards gaining EU membership in the future.

FOSTER: OK, Nada, thank you.

[04:25:00]

NOBILO: I had a quite informative and anecdotal evidence of this the other day, so I was at the National shooting range in the U.K. doing some air rifle shooting and they have very small pellets for that and they were out of stock because they said that those materials were being diverted elsewhere and they didn't have any that could be purchased. So even filtering down to sort of small-scale arms and sports.

FOSTER: Yes.

NOBILO: NATO says it is actively addressing an apparent cyberattack. A hacking group claims to have stolen strategic planning and research documents and posted them online. Topics include hypersonic weapons, threats from drones and testing procedures for radioactive waste.

FOSTER: The alliance says there has been no impact on NATO missions, operations or military deployments. The group claiming responsibility is known for a series of attacks on U.S. government websites over the past 18 months.

NOBILO: Just ahead, President Biden's son heads to court on gun charges. Why it didn't create the massive outcry that Republicans in Congress might have been hoping for.

FOSTER: Then a look at some early favorites to replace U.S., House Speaker Kevin McCarthy after he was ousted in historic fashion.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NOBILO: Welcome back to CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Bianca Nobilo.

FOSTER: And I'm Max Foster. If you're just joining us, let's bring you up to date with the top stories.

Former U.S. President Donald Trump says he will be back in court today for day three of his civil fraud trial in New York. His long-time accountant will be back in the stand to face cross examination from the defense.

[04:30:00]