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Netanyahu: "Citizens Of Israel, We Are At War"; U.S. Airlines Cancel And Divert Israeli-Bound Flights; White House "Unequivocally Condemns" Attacks On Israel; Victoria Coates, Former Deputy National Security Adviser, Discusses Hamas Attacks In Israel. Aired 1-2p ET

Aired October 07, 2023 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is "CNN BREAKING NEWS".

[13:00:43]

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. And thanks for joining us. I'm Christiane Amanpour in London and we continue with our major "BREAKING NEWS".

Israel declaring its war with Hamas. It follows an unprecedented attack on Israel, where at least 70 people and maybe more according to officials there are dead, and 985 wounded.

Again, those numbers are probably already higher and expected to rise. The attack catching Israel by surprise. At sunrise, the Palestinian terrorist group Hamas launched their offensive by air, sea, and land.

The fighters infiltrated Israeli towns and launched more than 3,000 rockets into Israel, according to officials there. Scenes of urban warfare as gunfights unfolded between Israel and Hamas.

Israeli's president, Isaac Herzog, reacting in a statement saying, "Today, we saw the true face of Hamas. A terrorist army whose only goal is the cold-blooded murder of innocent men, women, and children. I call upon the family of nations -- this war waged against us marks a line in the sand."

Israel is now striking back launching its own airstrikes into Gaza, where Palestinians say hundreds have been killed. New video from CNN shows a tower collapsing in Gaza City following an airstrike.

Israel also mobilizing its troops and calling up tens of thousands of reservists. We also heard just moments ago that major U.S. airlines including Delta and American Airlines are now canceling flights into Israel this weekend, according to FlightAware.

CNN senior international correspondent Sam Kiley is joining me now. So, let's get the latest from what you know and some of the context, Sam.

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Christiane, what we know in terms of the death toll is that the Israelis are saying that they have now lost 70 people and some nearly 1,000 injured after this very complex attack that was launched completely unexpectedly by Hamas outside of the Gaza Strip, using rocket as largely as cover for very complex series of infiltrations by land, by sea, and in the air.

Now, according to the Israeli Defense Forces, gun battles are continuing, Christiane. In a number of villages in Kibbutz's, on the outskirts of Gaza, that's inside Israeli territory.

And we also saw earlier in the day, the militants able to attack a police station or attacking near a police station opening fire on civilians as well as attacking military bases.

Two military bases have been under attack or the IDF said earlier on today, they'd even lost contact with one of those relatively small military bases down the side of the Gaza Strip. The Israelis have also lost a tank and the Hamas has claimed to have taken a number of people hostage.

These hostages have been somewhat confirmed by the Israeli Defense Forces, saying that they are prisoners of war. That's an emphatic decision to take to describe them as such to make sure that they are treated properly under the terms of the Geneva Convention.

And there's some video evidence too -- of civilians that have also been captured and taken hostage.

Hamas says that they've all been taken many of these hostages have been taken inside the Gaza Strip. All this adding up to a catastrophic failure of intelligence for the Israelis. The likes of which haven't been seen since the Yom Kippur War, which perhaps by coincidence is almost 50 years ago, almost exactly too today.

But on top of that, this is an ongoing operation where the pledge to strike back coming in -- coming from the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who is saying that they will be -- Gaza will be hit by -- Hamas will be hit back in ways that they could not imagine.

Now, the problem for the Israelis is that if indeed there are significant numbers of hostages inside the Gaza Strip, that kind of military operation is going to be extremely problematic. Inevitably, they will be described and probably used as human shields. This is Israeli soldiers and civilians in all probability.

And on top of that, they've got the wider problem of a possible conflagration spreading into the West Bank and possibly even into South Lebanon. Christiane.

AMANPOUR: And, Sam, from what you're hearing, do you think this is something that could, I mean, you've touched on it a little bit. But the response by Israel could, in fact, be, and will in fact be a ground incursion?

[13:05:07]

KILEY: The pressure on the government, and indeed the military advice might well be to go in on the ground because, of course, soldiers always believe that there is ultimately going to be a military solution to these sorts of problems.

The Israelis are not unique in this, but they've tried it in the past, and it hasn't worked. It is probably inevitably what that Hamas group and other militant groups in Gaza have planned for. Their assumption will be that the Israelis want to go in on the ground, and they will have planned to counter measures at the very least to try to deal with that, firstly.

Secondly, you've got the problem of the hostages. And thirdly, you have the problem of Israeli troops coming face to face with Hamas militants and other militants inside the Gaza Strip, making it an incredibly messy, very problematic environment to operate in militarily.

You can't just go in and flat an entire area. There are many millions of -- 1-1/2 millions, I think, from memory, citizens, people living in Gaza. It's very densely populated, there are tower blocks all over we've seen the Israelis striking at what they say are Hamas headquarters and other locations in numerous strikes already around the Gaza Strip.

But inevitably, I think there's going to be call for a ground incursion. That is probably what Hamas kind of wants. That is part of their trap and planning, I suspect. Christiane.

AMANPOUR: And actually sound, they have been talking to Al Jazeera -- senior members. And saying they are prepared for the worst-case scenario, prepared for a big battle. Those are their words.

So, right now, Sam Kiley, thank you. Now, CNN's Nic Robertson has just landed in Tel Aviv where sirens are going off. He is on the phone. Nic, what can you tell us from there?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (voice over): Yes, Christiane. We just landed in Ben Gurion Airport a few minutes ago. Quite safe, touchdown and landings. We got off the plane onto buses. Heading across the tarmac, the siren sounded. The bus stopped, everyone got off the bus and lay on the on the tarmac, try to hide behind bits of airport equipment out there.

And overhead, we could hear above the sound of the sirens we could hear the sound of what seemed to be Iron Dome intercept missiles, banging in the sky above us.

I didn't lose count of how many there were, perhaps, I would say, 50 -- more than -- more than 50 banging from the sky above us. Obviously, this is something that Israel has been going through by the day.

But this is like quite literally what is greeting people as they're landing here at the main international airport in Israel, just outside of Tel Aviv.

(CROSSTALK)

AMANPOUR: All right.

ROBERTSON: Quite an experience. I can tell you, but looking at the faces of a lot of the people, a lot of concern out there laying on the runway about what was unfolding around them, and what may happen yet tonight. Christiane?

AMANPOUR: Well, indeed. And the fact that the airport is even open, I know, it's sort of open and closed, depending on what the situation.

But you saw it happening right there in front of your eyes. And, of course, it's dark, and that adds to the drama, and the fear.

Nic Robertson, thank you very much.

Let's talk now to Martin Indyk. He is, of course, the former U.S. ambassador to Israel, and a very prominent member of previous administrations in the negotiations between Israel and its Arab neighbors.

Ambassador Indyk, welcome back to the program. Can I ask you --

MARTIN INDYK, FORMER UNITED STATES SPECIAL ENVOY FOR ISRAELI- PALESTINIAN NEGOTIATIONS: Thank you for --

(CROSSTALK)

AMANPOUR: Can I ask you, where you think this is going next? And I'm asking you not because you have a crystal ball. But because you've been involved and you've seen these cycles happen so many times in the past.

INDYK: So, I think it's exactly the right thing that we need to be worried about. Because the escalation potential is very real here. Your reporter referred to the possibility that Hezbollah in Lebanon could be drawn in.

Hezbollah has 50, 150 -- 150,000 rockets, that it could fire into the main population centers of Israel if it gets drawn in. There could be an eruption in the West Bank. More terror attacks there that have been occurring off and on.

There could be an explosion in Jerusalem, highly sensitive for religious reasons. And then, of course, the Arab sector in Israel could well explode in this situation. So, it's like five France, that could develop as a result of the starting of this war. And Israel's response, because Israel is going to go in with great anger into Gaza.

And I was fear that thousands of Palestinians will die in the next week or so. So, the potential for escalation is very high.

AMANPOUR: So, Ambassador, what would you advise President Biden to communicate to Prime Minister Netanyahu?

[13:10:05]

I mean, how does -- how does -- how does your scenario -- how is that avoided?

INDYK: Well, President Biden has kind of put his arm around, Prime Minister Netanyahu. Make sure he feels his love and support. And then, try to urge some restraint upon him. But it's impossible to do in circumstances where it was a surprise attack, where there was only like 40 Israelis taken hostage and somebody killed. That -- that's going to fall on deaf ears.

So, he's got to work the others as well. He's got to try to get those who have influence on Hamas, to stop shooting the rockets in Qatar, in particular, but others, to Egypt.

In essence, try to calm things down. But in this environment, it's extremely difficult to do and is likely to fail.

AMANPOUR: It's really a bleak scenario. It's very, very bleak, indeed.

I want to know what you thought. And I don't know whether you heard, but former Prime Minister Ehud Olmert told me about half an hour ago on this program, that yes, Hamas has to be dealt with. But yes, also, there has to be connection with the Palestinian Authority, and to actually talk to people there about peace.

You also may have heard Mustafa Barghouti, very senior Palestinian in the West Bank, talk about, this is a 56-year occupation, and we too, have our right to self-defense.

I just was curious on your reaction, because you have been in the middle of these negotiations for so many decades.

INDYK: When I couldn't help reflect on Ehud Olmert's statement, because 50 years ago, Anwar Sadat of Egypt, launched a surprise attack on Israel. But he made war in order to make peace. And indeed, straight afterwards, Henry Kissinger was able to launch a peace negotiation, because there was an Arab partner, leader of Egypt that was capable and intent upon making peace.

Here we have Hamas, which is intent on destroying Israel, and the Palestinian Authority, which has no legitimacy before this crisis erupted. And certainly, now, will have no legitimacy if it holds down an olive branch to Israel.

So, the circumstances are very different and much more difficult to say, how a political process can come out of that. Having said that, Israel doesn't have a solution, other than to try to restore to turrets, which obviously just broke down.

That will probably require Israel to going on the ground in Gaza, and you've already been discussing the consequences of that. Once Israel gets into Gaza, the question is, who do they get out in favor of? Who will take control of Gaza, if they destroy Hamas there, if they can? And that is an impossible situation for Israel. They don't want to occupy Gaza, but they can't make peace with Hamas.

And so, you have a situation here, which is not ripe for any political process for the time being. AMANPOUR: And it has ever been so, ambassador, because each time we've seen these, and this, obviously, is the most daring and deadly attack by Hamas in all the decades that this standoff has been going on.

But in every time we've seen this, we've had war, we've had Israelis killed, we've had, you know, the Israelis repeating or rather retaliating into Gaza. Then, as even, you know, Ehud Olmert said, you know, then comes the public opinion, because so many civilians are killed inside Gaza. And then, the whole cycle continues, and nothing is resolved. It just keeps getting kicked down the -- down the road.

Do you think that's what's happening? Or is this a much more serious threat to Israel than you've ever seen?

INDYK: Now, it's clearly a serious threat. But the biggest problem for Israel is its total system failure. From the intelligence to the defense to the deterrence, to preparations for dealing with hostage situation. I mean, the dysfunctional government, the division within Israel, over the political judicial reforms.

And so, we've got a situation where the potential partners on each side for some kind of more lasting solution don't exist at the moment.

[13:15:09]

And I'm afraid it's going to be more war, Christiane, before we can get to talking about peace, and that's tragic for the Israelis, tragic for the Palestinians, maybe everybody will come to their senses, eventually.

But I'm afraid it's far too soon to predict that.

AMANPOUR: And Martin Indyk, thank you very, very much for your wisdom, and we send you our very, very best wishes.

Joining us now is the former Israeli ambassador to the United States, Michael Oren.

Thank you for being with us.

MICHAEL OREN, FORMER ISRAELI AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED STATES: Christiane, as well. Hello, Christiane.

AMANPOUR: Hi. Hi, Michael. You just heard Martin Indyk, a great friend of Israel, a long-term negotiator, knows, and has been around the block for so many decades on this issue.

And his prognosis is bleak that Israel is left with a very difficult option. And there is no necessary end in sight to this war right now. Do you agree?

OREN: Unfortunately. Unfortunately, I agree with him. And I would actually make a finer point. And that is, many analysts, and I have to include myself among them, unfortunately, have been predicting the situation for some time, because of the rather unique confluence of strategic and geopolitical circumstances. Israel perceived as weak. America perceived as unwilling to be involved in military conflicts. The Iranians and everyone is -- no one I haven't heard the (INAUDIBLE) Iran very much on CNN today.

The Iranians are afraid. Afraid of the impending Saudi-Israeli peace, which may result in Saudi nuclearization. It could -- they're afraid of Donald Trump returning to the presidency. And these analysts, again, myself included the saying that Iran could always just trigger a war and stop this whole process.

And indeed, I don't think anybody's talking very much about the Saudi- Israeli peace today. And yes, this could escalate. I do not see this Israeli government being able to withstand public opinion, which is going to demand a different end to this round and the previous five rounds, which as you mentioned, ended in sort of a stalemate.

I remember years ago, this is now, oh, boy, 12 years ago, when one Israeli soldier, Gilad Shalit was taken hostage.

(CROSSTALK)

AMANPOUR: I remember.

OREN: And what it did to Israel for policy? And how we have reacted to that? Now, we're talking about dozens of hostages. We're talking about penetration of our territory, of our villages, our farms. Dozens of civilians killed, we don't even know how many.

Israeli public opinion will not be satisfied with return to the status quo. That I am certain.

But the question is, will Hamas in Judea, and Samaria, the West Bank, will it remain quiet? Very, very doubtful. Will they'll be mounting attacks within Israel? Very probably.

Hezbollah. Will Hezbollah sit by the side? And as Martin Indyk mentioned, 150,000 rockets in the hands of Hezbollah's arsenal. But it's more of the fact. Those rockets are buried underneath 200 villages in South Lebanon. In houses, and those houses are occupied by families.

And the Israeli army has been training to go into South Lebanon and fighting village, house to house.

We are been talking about a potential regional conflict. This is the beginning. It is not even the end of the beginning. And people in Washington, I believe have to be thinking about, a: how the United States will stand behind Israel in this conflict? I think the world will be watching very, very closely to see how the United States stands by its ally, which has been attacked murderously and an unprovoked manner by an organization which desires Israel's destruction. Simply ais that.

Not about a peace process, not about the absence of the peace process. If anything, it's because of the peace process with Saudi Arabia. And then --- (CROSSTALK)

AMANPOUR: Well, let me -- let me ask you about that, because -- actually, I want to start with that. We will talk about the morning after, but you've mentioned twice the peace process. And Israel, apparently, has been quite keen to normalize beyond just the UAE and the other Arab states that it has, but also with Saudi Arabia.

And I know that it might seem early days in this -- in this war to be talking about this. But since you brought it up, I want to play for you something about this specific issue that a lot of other people are talking about today.

Where does this, you know, end up now? I spoke to the -- to the prime minister of Qatar about this specific issue and how they saw the idea of Israel and Saudi Arabia normalizing, if indeed that's possible.

This was obviously before today's events. Just take a listen.

Do -- OK. We will get it. We'll get it organized. But anyway, basically what he said was, we actually don't have an issue with Israel, our situation is about the Palestinians, and it's about you know getting the Palestinian situation normalized.

[13:20:09]

And you heard Mustafa Barghouti on this show, talking about -- this is a 56-year occupation that they too have the right to defend themselves.

And this seems to be what's, OK, we've got the Qatari Prime Minister, because I really want you to react to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MOHAMMED BIN ABDULRAHMAN BIN JASSIM AL THANI, PRIME MINISTER OF QATAR: We don't have a war with Israel as a region. The reason that we have the conflict with Israel is over the occupation of the Palestinian territories. And what we are asking for is the statehood for the Palestinians. And that's what basically been mentioned in the Arab Peace Initiative that came out in 2001. And all Arab countries has adopted that.

We believe to bring peace to the region. The starting point should be between the Israelis and the Palestinians. Normalization agreement happening between countries as their sovereign decision, at the end of the day. No one has the right to question that, as no one has the right to question our sovereign foreign policy decisions.

But we think that from our perspective, the Israeli issue is only the issue of the Palestinians.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: So, Qatar are very, very, you know, straight on that. I mean, it's unmistakable message. And all the Arab neighbors with whom Israel has normalized, say the same thing. It's early days, obviously, because of what's just happened. But that is the end game, right? I mean, isn't it the end game?

OREN: I don't know if it's the game at all. That's the problem. Christiane, I'd be very honest with you because a lot of (INAUDIBLE).

(CROSSTALK)

AMANPOUR: Well, I mean, the strategic resolution. A strategic resolution.

OREN: I think you can have a better management of a conflict and not necessarily a resolution. And that's been the problem for many decades now. If you've been looking for solutions, like endgame solutions, when none are really possible.

Keep in mind, Mr. Abbas, the president, the Palestinian Authority has been in office now for what, 18 years and a four-year term. He doesn't run again, because he knows that Hamas would take over the West Bank in any open election.

Now, imagine if there were a Palestinian state in Judea, Samaria, and the West Bank. Imagine if this has happened not in these relatively sparsely populated Israeli border settlements along the Gaza Strip, but it happening in Jerusalem.

I live in South Tel Aviv. I see Hebron from my back window. So, Israelis is -- and again, I can't speak for a government, I think I can speak for the majority of Israelis saying we would very much desire to have a solution to the Palestinian problem, to have peace with our Palestinian neighbors. Of course, we want that.

But right now, what does it mean to have a Palestinian state that's going to turn into Gaza? And literally overnight, and the reason, Mr. Barghouti, who spoke to you earlier, and his boss, Mahmoud Abbas, the reason they're alive is because we keep them alive. We prevent Hamas from knocking them off.

And it's very disturbing to listen to his interview, and say, we have a right to defend ourselves. Just the Palestinian right to defend themselves keep mean killing women and children? Holding them hostage?

I watched a picture on Twitter this morning of a Palestinian terrorists making a V sign over, probably a 90-year-old Israeli woman in a -- in a wheelchair. Is that legitimate self-defense against any political situation whatsoever?

So, this is what Israelis, the vast, vast majority, I think from the center, center left, maybe even the extreme left, will understand that right now there is no better solution to better managing the situation. I can think of many ways of doing that.

But right now, the big issue now, is how is the United States going to stand by its Israeli ally as we present -- as we are -- as we are facing the possibility of a very real possibility of a regional conflict. And how are we going to think about the morning after?

AMANPOUR: We will keep getting those you know, talking to you about it and keep following this story. Thank you so much indeed for being with us.

OREN: Thanks. Be well.

AMANPOUR: Now, our breaking coverage of this unprecedented situation in Israel continues right after a break. We'll be back.

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[13:28:14]

AMANPOUR: Back with our "BREAKING NEWS", war in Israel. Hamas launched a deadly surprise attack that will have "major unforeseen international ramifications."

Israel aviation authorities are warning airlines to exercise caution. Right now, those in the United States are diverting and canceling flights that were headed for Israel's main Ben Gurion Airport.

U.S. embassy personnel in Jerusalem are sheltering in place.

So, let's go now to CNN's Natasha Bertrand. And she -- rather, U.S. officials are watching every development. What do we hearing from where you are at the state department?

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yes, Christiane. So, Secretary of State Antony Blinken did release a statement, of course, condemning this attack. Saying that, we will remain in close contact with our Israeli partners and he reiterated that there is never any justification for terrorism.

Secretary Blinken has also been at the White House all morning, we're told, attending meetings and calling foreign counterparts. And this has really been an all hands-on-deck effort by the Biden administration and the national security team surrounding President Biden to figure out what is going on and how best to support these Israelis amid this ongoing attack.

Director Burns of the CIA, he also canceled a planned trip to a national security conference this weekend, in order to remain in Washington and help provide support to President Biden and national security discussions, according to a spokesperson as the crisis continues to unfold there.

And Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin has also spoken to his Israeli counterpart to reiterate the U.S. support for the Israelis amid this ongoing situation and also to ensure that the Israelis will have what they need to defend themselves in the coming days.

And that is really key here because the U.S. has a significant stockpile of weaponry inside Israel. One of the biggest war reserves that the U.S. has in the world.

[13:30:03]

That Israel could potentially tap into if it gets permission from the United States, and if this conflict, of course, continues, and continues to escalate.

It remains to be seen how this will continue to unfold. But Biden's national security team is really trying to get a handle on it at this moment -- Christiane?

AMANPOUR: You talk about national security, you talk about the CIA chief. Are you hearing anything about what might have happened in the intelligence world? I mean, even the United States?

BERTRAND: I think it's safe to say that officials, writ large, were pretty caught off guard by this. And they are certainly going to have questions about what Israel knew. It appears that the Israelis were also caught off guard by this.

So the question would be, how did the Israelis allow something like this to happen, allow such a large-scale attack like this to happen, something the Israelis have said repeatedly that they would be able to detect.

Lonewolf attacks are harder to detect but this kind of planning, this kind of planned attack, something that the Israelis would presumably be able to detect in their own backyard.

So questions will be discussed, of course, between the U.S. and Israelis about how this happened and how to prevent it from ever happening again -- Christiane?

AMANPOUR: There may be questions also about U.S. intelligence. They managed to tell the world what was happening when Russia invaded Ukraine. It'll be interesting to find out who knew what or didn't know when this is all finally opened up.

Thank you so much, Natasha.

U.S. airlines are diverting, as I said, and canceling flights bound for Israel's main airport.

CNN aviation correspondent, Pete Muntean, joins us now on the phone.

Pete, what can you tell us?

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): This is really showing, Christiane, a very bold bulletin from the Civil Aviation Authority in Israel, saying there's a real risk to aviation because of this attack.

And they say that, to airlines, they should exercise extreme caution due to the ongoing conflict situation. This is for airlines worldwide, only a little bit ago.

And I want to read this to you from the Israeli Civil Aviation Authority that they sent to the FAA here in the United States: "The ongoing conflict in the region between Israel and Gaza-based

extremists militants, operators are advised to review current security threat information and notices to pilots."

The thing they are underscoring here is to expect delays and maybe even carry extra fuel because of what is happening in the area.

We just checked FlightAware, that 43 flights into the Tel Aviv airport, Ben Gurion, the main international airport there in Israel, have been canceled, 15 percent in total, 21 percent delayed.

What's happening now here in the USA is that airlines that operate flights to Israel are canceling those flights. Delta and American Airlines both have flights from JFK planned for today and tomorrow. Those have both been canceled.

United Airlines has canceled a flight tomorrow. In fact, it had a flight in route to Tel Aviv from San Francisco today. It's a 13-hour journey.

About seven hours into it, the airline decided it was simply too risky and turned the flight around and on the way back to San Francisco. So really a flight from hell for folks in route to Tel Aviv.

But a very dangerous and fluid situation. And Israeli authorities governing aviation there are just very concerned about what could happen.

AMANPOUR: Indeed. And to your point, our colleague, Nic Robertson, who was on the air moments ago, having just landed there. Obviously, there were delays as well. And there were sirens that went off and they could hear explosions as they all hit the ground in the distance.

You mentioned American Airlines and that this has -- all U.S. airlines, and this notice has gone out sort of far and wide. Do you think international airlines are also following the same proportions?

MUNTEAN: This is an international notice, and it is to the IKO, the International Civil Aviation Authority. The Israeli authorities say they will continue to update this and look at the risk to flights coming in and out of Israel as the situation develops.

This is essentially just the opening salvo here. And they will continue to reassess and make sure.

Because we know there's risk to aviation and conflict in the Middle East has led to problems with aviation in the future, including hijacking. So they really have to be careful here.

AMANPOUR: Pete Muntean, thank you so much, indeed.

[13:34:38]

Now we are, of course, following the latest developments. And our special coverage continues right after a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: We are monitoring the latest developments from Washington after Hamas launched unprecedented attacks against Israel. The Biden administration now faces an exceedingly complex diplomatic situation involving the Palestinians.

The U.S. played a critical role behind the scenes when violence erupted between Gaza and Israel two years ago.

I want to bring in White House correspondent, M.J. Lee, for more.

M.J., in the past, White House officials have always tried to work with the parties, with their allies. It's always been known that the U.S. holds the most credibility and influence in that situation.

It seems that the landscape is somewhat changing?

M.J. LEE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Christiane. And I don't have to tell you that U.S. officials, as they are monitoring the situation and trying to get a clear assessment of what actually went on, there are some serious questions that are emerging.

Even as that intelligence gathering activity is happening in the first few hours of the attack.

[13:39:59]

One very serious question is, why did the Israelis seem so wholly unprepared and unaware of this sort of scale of attack that was headed their way?

Israeli officials have been pretty open in saying, in the aftermath of this attack, that they were essentially caught off guard. That is going to be deeply concerning for U.S. officials here.

There's also just the question of, what is Benjamin Netanyahu going to do next?

President Biden, spoke with the prime minister earlier today. He would have some sense as to where his frame of mind is at. The statement we got from the White House didn't offer much clues.

Then there's the question of, are there any openings for diplomacy going forward for the U.S.? I think you make a very good point about sort of the political landscape, the regional landscape, just changing, literally, overnight.

So any conversations that U.S. officials might have been a part of, any diplomatic conversations that the U.S. might have been a part of concerning the Middle East, I think it is safe to say that those conversations are at the very least on hold right now.

Christiane, the president does remain at the White House. We know he is receiving constant updates from his national security team. And that is going to continue throughout the day.

Again, there are these key questions that are emerging in the aftermath of these attacks -- Christiane?

AMANPOUR: And, M.J., I don't know if you are getting a sense of this but there is a sense in the international community that the U.S. sort of got rusty, if you like, in the matter of negotiating in the Middle East, particularly between Israel and the Palestinians.

The importance of that issue has gone off the boil. So there's a lot of potential catch up to be done now. Are you getting that sense?

LEE: Yes, I think that is certainly going to be a kind of criticism perhaps that U.S. officials confront in the aftermath of these attacks.

Look, diplomacy is something that President Biden, of course, has to work on every day. That is a part of his job.

And particularly, when it comes to the situation with Israel, look, we've been talking about this all morning, the president has taken real pride and U.S. officials have pointed to the brokering of this deal between Israel and Saudi Arabia that the U.S. has played such a key part in.

And actually, until recently, they had said, look, I think we are -- at least indicated, I think we are close to getting this across the finish line, if Israelis would be OK with some of these concessions that we are pushing forward to be made it to the Palestinians.

Again, we are in a completely new world now, given the scenes coming out of Israel, given the scenes that are coming out of the ground over there, and given just sort of the scale of the attack that we are seeing that, again, Israelis just seem completely unprepared for and unaware of were coming their way.

AMANPOUR: M.J., thank you so much.

And of course, that will be dealt with in good time. The real question is, what is going to happen next?

More on our breaking news coverage of this developing situation, this dangerous situation. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:47:16]

AMANPOUR: We are back with breaking news, Israel at war after Hamas launches a devastating surprise attack across the nation.

Let's bring in CNN intelligence and security analyst, Bob Baer. He's a former CIA operator.

Bob, welcome to the program.

You have spent a lot of time studying and even meeting members of Hamas. This is a very sophisticated operation, am I right?

BOB BAER, CNN INTELLIGENCE & SECURITY ANALYST: It is extremely sophisticated. They've gotten better over the years.

One, they've gotten off telephones entirely, no cell phones, no land lines. They know the exchanges, for instance, in Gaza are run by Israeli intelligence. So they listen to everything. That Palestinians have figured this out.

They've moved all of their operations out of bases, what we may call bases, into apartments, into basements. They are scattered. They depend upon the strength of weak ties. That means messages are sent by courier and guerrilla warfare cells that don't know each other.

So effectively, they defeated Israeli intelligence.

I will not call this an Israeli intelligence failure as such because Gaza progressively, over the years, they've gotten out of touch with the Palestinians there.

For instance, Israeli intelligence officer wouldn't dare go into Gaza because they would get caught and put in a basement.

AMANPOUR: You know, Bob, you say that, right now, the Hamas leaders are talking and posting on Telegram tweets and the rest.

One of them is saying -- of course, this is the armed wing. They are saying they have dozens of Israelis and they captured them during the surprise attack.

They said, "We bring good news to our Palestinian prisoners." And they have been secured, quote, "in places -- in safe places and resistance tunnels."

First and foremost, tell us what you know about infrastructure. But, secondly, "good news to our Palestinian prisoners." This is more than just a prisoner exchange operation, isn't it?

BAER: It is. They are going to hold these people. It'll be very difficult to launch rescue missions. First of all, finding them will take months, if that. And sending troops into Gaza is extremely dangerous. They will be ambushed.

This could go on. It's a nightmare for Netanyahu to deal with, with these hostages. And there's still a lot of Hamas prisoners in Israeli prisons. So what they want, they want them back.

[13:49:58]

AMANPOUR: But what else do they want? Because is this just about getting the Palestinian prisoners back? I mean, this is -- it said -- and one of these IDF spokespeople said to CNN that this is a Pearl Harbor-type of moment for Israel.

And that the attack, you know, obviously infiltrated military bases, as we know, towns, took hostages. They say it's unprecedented, not just since Yom Kippur but the 1948 war.

BAER: Yes, exactly. It's the first invasion of Israel since 1948. This will shake Tel Aviv like never before.

What Hamas wants, above all, is a regional war. What they would like to do is draw Hezbollah into this. Apparently, it has 150,000 rockets buried in southern Lebanon.

They would like Hezbollah to open up on Israel. And also in Jordan. They want to destabilize the Jordanian government, too, and get the Palestinians there to react. And then, of course, there's Syria.

So Israel is in a very bad neighborhood. And Hamas' hope -- and I don't know what's going to come about -- is to really, you know, inflame this thing all through the Middle East, and especially break any relations between Saudi Arabia and Tel Aviv.

AMANPOUR: What role, then, will the U.S. play in partnership with Israel, in terms of obviously support, but especially intelligence?

BAER: Well, there's not much the United States can do. The United States has always deferred to Israel's intelligence collection on Gaza and the West Bank.

The United States has the same problem. They're not up on cell phones. There's no metadata on these people. And also the United States does not have operatives in Gaza, of course.

I was able to go there as a journalist and sit down with Hamas, but that's hardly the kind of intelligence the CIA needs.

AMANPOUR: What did you find out? When did you go and what did you find out, I mean, in terms of the storytelling as a journalist?

BAER: I was tracking a suicide bomber that hit an Israeli target. This was about a decade ago.

And they walked me through how he was recruited -- I went to his funeral -- how he was handled, how they prepared the car, and what they were determined to do.

And even at that point, they were saying they're getting off cell phones, because they knew the Israeli capabilities and the metadata and the rest of it. So this has become a very disciplined organization.

I mean, you go back to the engineer who was killed with a cell phone that exploded. They learned a lesson from that.

But more than that, the Israelis don't have any good human sources inside Gaza. Otherwise, they would have found out about this.

So it's very much a black hole for the Israelis. And there's no easy out.

What Netanyahu is left with is simply bombarding Gaza, but that is going to risk, as we've been talking about, a regional war.

AMANPOUR: And what about -- look, now is obviously a very difficult time to talk about any political developments. But are there any that are likely?

I heard -- just on this program in the last hour, we heard from the former prime minister of Israel, Ehud Olmert, we've heard from others about the fact that, essentially, any idea of trying to keep talking to the Palestinians, the two-state solution, some kind of resolution, it's just not even happening.

There doesn't seem to be any attempt whatsoever, not just by the Israelis, but also by the U.S. and the greater international community.

BAER: Well, Christiane, first of all, you've got the problem of the settlements. They've picked up since Oslo, as you know. Netanyahu is dealing with the right wing. He needs to appease them.

And then you've got Hamas. This was a suicide attack, at the end of the day. So you're dealing with two sides that are nowhere near talking to each other. And bringing back Oslo, for instance, is a nonstarter.

And right now, we're in uncharted waters, where this is going to go.

AMANPOUR: Thank you for your perspective, Bob Baer. Thanks for joining us today.

I want to bring in Victoria Coates for some more perspective. She's a former deputy national security adviser for the Middle East and vice president of foreign policy with the Heritage Foundation.

Tell me, you know, the armed wing of Hamas says, as I said, they've captured dozens of Israelis, whether they're civilians and soldiers. They've been secured in safe places, resistance tunnels.

You've seen some of the tunnels. What can you tell us about the difficulty of that underground infrastructure?

VICTORIA COATES, VICE PRESIDENT OF FOREIGN POLICY, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: Thank you, Christiane. Good afternoon.

This is a very complex, sophisticated architecture that Hamas has been engaged in over the course of some years now.

[13:55:04]

And it's one of the reasons it's always been very, very hard to get significant assistance into Gaza, because Hamas would hijack anything that could be used for construction to build these very deep, very large -- you can drive through them -- terror tunnels into Israel.

And the Israelis have spent a lot of time and treasure on technology to detect the tunnels. They've had some success with that.

But clearly the Palestinians have gotten around that, and were able to mount this really incredibly sophisticated, complex attack.

AMANPOUR: But now they say they're putting these hostages that they say they have into some of these tunnels, I mean, what option does that leave those -- I mean, obviously the Israelis have always been very determined to get any prisoners and hostages back.

COATES: That's really the ongoing horror of this attack, is that we have -- they're saying dozens -- that could be any kind of number -- of Israeli mostly civilians. But there are also reports of IDF soldiers being among the captured.

This makes it utterly impossible for any progress to be made on any kind of deal for the Palestinians.

I mean, the real problem here for the Palestinian people is that Hamas has completely shut off any avenues for a deal for them. And so this is going to be an unfolding horror in coming weeks and months.

My hope is that the Israelis do have ways that they can detect and penetrate these tunnels, get these people back, and finally get rid of Hamas as a regional actor that is just clearly hellbent on spreading violent mayhem.

AMANPOUR: Victoria Coates, thank you very much.

Now, CNN's breaking coverage of this unprecedented situation is continuing right after a quick break. We will be back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

AMANPOUR: Hello, everyone, and thanks for joining us. I'm Christiane Amanpour in London.

We're continuing with our major breaking story, that is Israel declaring it is at war with Hamas, which follows an unprecedented attack on Israeli soil today.

At least 70 people, and many, many more are dead and wounded. Nearly 1,000 wounded. Those numbers are expected to rise.

The Palestinian terrorist group Hamas launched an offensive by air, sea and land at sunrise. Their fighters infiltrated Israeli towns and launched more than 3,000 rockets into Israel.

Some Israeli citizens and soldiers are being held as hostages, and Israel says, prisoners of war.

[13:59:59]

Also, a short time ago, sirens and more than a dozen loud booms could be heard across Tel Aviv. Hamas says that it's fired more than 150 rockets against the city.