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CNN Covers The Hamas Attacks On Israel; Israel At War after Hamas Attacks; Hamas Attacks Music Festival In Israel; Hostages Taken By Hamas; Three Americans Killed In Israel. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired October 08, 2023 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:46]

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST: This is CNN breaking news. Top of the hour, welcome to CNN's breaking news coverage. I'm Abbey Phillip in Washington. We begin this hour with reports of live explosions heard in central Israel near Tel Aviv as Hamas is now claiming to target Ben Gurion Airport.

And tonight, the atrocities of Hamas are being revealed. We do want to warn you, the images that we're about to show you are graphic and disturbing, but it is critically important for the world to see the reality of what has just unfolded. This here is the aftermath of the attacks on a music festival site in Western Israel.

An Israeli rescue organization says that at least 260 bodies were found at that site. The survivors of that massacre, describing Hamas fighters storming the festival yesterday morning attacking civilians with rifles, with RPGs, killing or kidnapping anyone that they came across.

The death toll now in Israel is more than 600 people. We learned tonight that at least three Americans are among that number, and at this moment, we do not know of the fate of dozens of people who have been taken hostage by Hamas and other terrorist groups. Now, Israeli forces are stepping up their attacks on Gaza tonight, the area controlled by Hamas.

Now this was the scene there just a few hours ago. Explosions lighting up the sky as Israel carries out round after round of airstrikes. We're also getting a look at how these brutal attacks started from this propaganda video released by Hamas as their fighters' launched rockets and used bombs dropped by drones yesterday.

Now our coverage starts with CNN's Nic Robertson, who is in Sderot, Israel. Nic, we are learning about Hamas potentially attacking the center of Israel right now. They're claiming that they're targeting the airport in Tel Aviv. What do you know?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: What we saw from here we can see rockets and saw rockets about three I would say fly up out of Gaza and they went across the sky this way. It's unusual here to see rockets fly up -- there was an explosion there -- see rockets fly up and not have them intercepted. They're intercepted here when they're targeting this area right close to Gaza. But when they're going further into Israel, they are targeted by the Iron Dome defensive missile shield. They're targeted further into Israel when the system can track the incoming missile better and therefore make better contact and destroy that incoming missile. So, we saw those missiles fly out from here. And within a minute of that we could hear fighter jets, Israeli fighter jets come on station above here. There were a couple of explosions.

At one point they sounded like a couple of fighter jets in the sky above us. There are drones up there now. It goes from sort of all quiet here to suddenly seeing those rockets flying out, no intercepts, which is a telltale that they're flying up towards central Israel. And then you immediately hear the fighter jets and the buzz of the drones in the air, where all eyes are on where were those rockets launched from and can those sites be hit.

And that's the cat-and-mouse that Israel plays now. Every time Hamas launches a rocket, the cat-and-mouse take out that site, take out the team that are firing those rockets. And of course, both sides know, have very experience in trying to evade and avoid each other on this because they've been doing it for years, Abby.

PHILLIP: Nic, we're looking right now at some pictures from just a few moments ago. It looked like a significant number of rockets in the sky. What is your estimation of how many were sent up? And do you have any sense from where you are of whether the intercepts were successful?

ROBERTSON: I can't talk about the intercepts because we can't really know that from here. So, we saw three rockets go up that we didn't see any intercepts come up for, which is indicative of rockets going to central Israel. We saw a large number of rockets come up that appeared and sounded like to us that they were flying up towards the coastal areas of Ashkelon and Ashdod along the coast of Israel flying northwards.

[17:05:07]

And there we saw and heard a large number of intercepts, and that was in the sky slightly sort of north and west of us here. So, it's possible from here to get a sense of where missiles are going when they fly up and they're coming to this location here. Within an instant of them coming up, the Iron Dome is cracking and banging over our heads. We've been in a number of different locations around the edge of Gaza, so you kind of begin to build up a picture of where the Iron Domes are, where the missiles are taking off from, when they're flying in a certain direction which Iron Dome will intercept them, what that's going to sound like, what that's going to look like.

So, I would say within the last 45 minutes there were a couple of missiles that took off towards central Israel that didn't appear to be intercepted and then a much greater cluster of missiles, perhaps up to a couple of dozen, judging by the intercepts that we could hear, the Iron Dome intercepts that were perhaps aimed at targets closer to Gaza, just up the coast. PHILLIP: Nic, it's getting to be quite late there and it seems like

the activity is picking up. What does this new spate of attacks tell us about where we are right now in this conflict? Is this the beginning of a new barrage of attacks from Hamas at Israel?

ROBERTSON: You know, Hamas is going to, like any terrorist organization, is going to try to pick the moments when it thinks Israel isn't looking, that it can get away with, and it will have its own ways of trying to figure out if Israel's got fighter aircraft in the sky, et cetera, that they will try to fire out a number of missiles. The way Hamas can be successful is to fire a huge number of missiles and hope that the Iron Dome cannot cope with them.

On the first phase of their attacks, early yesterday, 2,200 missiles fired. By late yesterday evening, they were firing them only in clusters of about 150. This evening, Hamas is firing its missiles in clusters of maybe, 3s, 4s, 5s, or maximum a couple of dozen or a dozen or so. So, I think we're seeing Hamas' ability to fire large numbers of rockets. They don't have that ability or they're not using that ability if they have it.

Their tempo and rate and numbers in their rate of fire has dropped off, I would say, definitely compared to yesterday morning to right now. The thing is, we don't know what they're planning. We don't know what their stockpiles are like. We don't know what else they might do in the next couple of hours. But in the hours of darkness, this is when Hamas calculate they have a better opportunity to launch missiles because they think it's harder for the Israelis to see them when they're moving the missiles around and trying to bring them out to launch sites without being spotted.

PHILLIP: We just heard as you were talking, it sounded faint to us, some booms in the backdrop. Can you tell what that might be from where you are?

ROBERTSON: It's very hard to tell. My supposition at the moment, because we've heard this fighter jet activity and also heard some helicopter activity around here, that perhaps that was the Israeli defense forces targeting, trying to target those Hamas launch sites. But it's very hard to tell. You know, what we do know is if you get too close to Gaza, then there's a chance that, you know, Hamas will try to target you. So, there's a reason that we can't get over the hill to overwatch the city to have a better view.

But from here, you get a sense of it. But to have that precise information, you need to have the level of observation that the Israeli defense forces have. And of course, every time something gets fired up here, they're on it. They scrutinize it. That's another explosion there, again, unclear from where we're standing what it is.

The Iron Dome is an amazingly sophisticated system that spots the rockets in the air, calculates their trajectory, and figures out which of the multiple Iron Dome installations around the country is the best one to fire on that rocket. And that shows you the technology that's in play to try to outmaneuver Hamas on this. PHILLIP: Yeah, it seems the next couple of hours could bring with it

some activity. Nic, we'll continue to stay in touch with you as the night goes on. Thank you for joining us.

I want to turn now to the Israeli ambassador to the United States, Michael Herzog. Ambassador, thank you very much for being with us. I do want to start with you about what we were just discussing with Nic, hearing booms and the firing of rockets from Gaza into Israel tonight. Can you tell us anything about these attacks that are underway right now?

[17:10:00]

MICHAEL HERZOG, ISRAELI AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED STATES: So, Israel is at war, we're under attack. Yesterday Hamas launched an unprovoked war against the state of Israel, firing until now, over 4,000 rockets, which is more than they fired in the 10 days of the last round of war we had with them two years ago, and sending hundreds of terrorists into Israeli territory, butchering hundreds of Israelis.

The official numbers right now are around 700, but the count goes on and we believe the numbers will be higher, including women, children, elderly. They kidnapped dozens of people, including a Holocaust survivor. These are difficult times for us. We are at war. And part of this war, on their behalf, on their part is to fire rockets at Israeli civilian populated area, including all of Israel basically.

PHILLIP: Our reporting suggests that Hamas is claiming that they are targeting Ben Gurion Airport. Is that true? Is that airport at risk right now?

HERZOG: I cannot relate to specific Hamas targeting. I assume they make these statements because they want to impact civilian aviation to Israel. In any case, our skies are clear and Iron Dome is extremely effective.

PHILLIP: The Israeli Minister of Strategic Affairs, Ron Dermer, told my colleague this morning that Americans are among those scores of hostages that are being held in Gaza right now. Can you give us more clarity about how many Americans are among the hostages?

HERZOG: All I can say is that we know there are Americans among the hostages, but I cannot provide more details at this point.

PHILLIP: Do you know if the hostages are currently being held in places that Israel might strike intentionally, being put there by Hamas to try to deter retaliation?

HERZOG: Hamas claims publicly that they put them in tunnels. We are aware of their intention to warn Israel not strike Gaza unless we hit those kidnapped. In any case, we'll make everything possible to not harm any of the kidnapped people. But our message to Hamas is that if any of these kidnapped people are harmed, they will pay a very heavy price.

PHILLIP: Is the United States sending resources to help with the rescue of these hostages, particularly any who might be American citizens as well?

HERZOG: We are in close contact with the U.S. administration about the situation in Gaza, including the hostages. That's all I can say at this point. But I do want to take this opportunity to stress our deep gratitude to the U.S. administration for its strong, unequivocal support to the state of Israel at this hour, including a very strong, unequivocal condemnation of Hamas and a very strong support for Israel's right to self-defense. We highly appreciate it.

PHILLIP: I want to play for you now what Secretary Blinken told CNN's Dana Bash this morning when he was asked if Iran could be involved in the planning of this attack. Just listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF STATE: We have not yet seen evidence that Iran directed or was behind this particular attack, but there's certainly a long relationship. It's one of the reasons why we have been resolutely taking action against Iran and its support for terrorists and terrorist proxies and other groups over the last few years of this administration. We've sanctioned more than 400 Iranian individuals and entities precisely because of their support for things like Hamas.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: I wonder if your intelligence on the Israeli side tells you more detail about this. Do you believe Iran had an operational role in this attack against Israel?

HERZOG: I cannot comment whether Iran had or didn't have an operational role. I will say that the relations between Hamas and Iran are very close. Iran provides funding to Hamas, tens of millions of dollars every year. It provides weapons. It provides guidance. Hamas defines itself as a member of the so-called axis of resistance, of course, resistance to the very independence of the state of Israel, to the very existence of the state of Israel. So, they are part of the same coalition and it wouldn't surprise any of us if there are Iranian hands behind this war.

PHILLIP: Can I just quickly ask you, Ron Dermer earlier also talked about this deal that is potentially on the table between Israel and Saudi Arabia that could be historic.

[17:15:00]

Do you think that that deal is still possible after all that we have seen in the last 48 hours?

HERZOG: I believe that one of the goals of Hamas in launching this war was to undermine this deal because they are highly concerned about expanding the circle of peace and normalization in the region. This would deal a blow to Iran and its proxies, including Hamas. Therefore, I believe it's hugely important to thwart this goal of them and to continue with the process of peace and normalization in the region. They should not succeed in their efforts and they will not succeed. PHILLIP: All right. Israeli Ambassador Michael Herzog, thank you very

much for joining us and my condolences to you and to everyone in the state of Israel right now.

HERZOG: Thank you very much. Highly appreciated.

PHILLIP: And up next for us, new video showing just how destructive already this conflict has become. That right there is a mosque along the Gaza Strip gone, destroyed by an Israeli airstrike. CNN's live coverage on the ground, including the latest that we are learning about these new Hamas attacks today, continues right after this short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:20:14]

PHILLIP: Breaking news out of Israel, the terror group Hamas is claiming to have launched major missile attacks on the city of Ashkelon in southern Israel. Let's get straight to CNN's Hadas Gold in Jerusalem. So Hadas what are we learning about this new barrage of attacks from Hamas?

HADAS GOLD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Abby, it's not just targeting Ashkelon. We've also seen rockets targeting the Tel Aviv area as well, the southern suburbs of Tel Aviv as well as the area around Israel's main airport, Ben Gurion Airport. Now, the Hamas group has said that they were specifically targeting Ben Gurion Airport. Of course, the goal of that is to shut the airport down.

As far as we understand, the airport's activity has not been affected by these rocket attacks. But the area around Tel Aviv had not been targeted in about 24 hours. I would say it had been some time since the suburbs of Tel Aviv where the Tel Aviv area had been targeted by rockets. Most of the rocket attacks in the last few hours, most of the day-to-day have been focused on the areas just around the Gaza Strip where they are often focused. That's probably likely because to target Tel Aviv, you need to use these longer-range rockets.

And also, what we're hearing in the last few hours or so is that there are still militants, apparently, engaging with Israeli soldiers in some of these towns and villages in southern Israel. We are now approaching within the next few hours, 48 hours of this war since these attacks began and still Israeli forces are encountering armed militants in Israeli towns and villages.

PHILLIP: Wow. Hadas, we've been talking --

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GOLD (voice-over): -- women and children. In video posted on social media, it's terrifying to watch, even more so if the people who are being abducted are your family. Yoni Asher is safe in his home in Israel, but he says he's terrified for his wife and two young daughters, abducted by Hamas militants from his mother-in-law's home near the Gaza border. He says the last days have been difficult, he hasn't slept, and desperately wants to send this message to their captors.

YONI ASHER, FAMILY ABDUCED BY HAMAS (through translation): I want to ask of Hamas. Don't hurt them. Don't hurt little children, don't hurt women. If you want me instead, I'm willing to come.

GOLD (voice-over): His anguish felt by families across Israel as videos emerge of other kidnappings. Israeli officials say Hamas has taken dozens of Israeli captives, including women, children and the elderly. Hamas says they're keeping them in locations across Gaza. Many hostages were taken while attending an outdoor music festival near the border with Gaza.

Witnesses say militants fired at them as they tried to run away while rockets were flying overhead. Many didn't make it out, as this next disturbing image shows. More than 200 people were killed at that festival, Israeli officials say. One video shows militant separating a couple at the festival. The woman, named Nora Argamani, is taken away on a motorbike, leaving her partner with his hands bound, surrounded by captors.

The families of both victims say they want the video to be shown in hopes of finding them. But Nora's roommate says it's still extremely distressing to watch it.

AMOR MOADDI, FRIEND OF NORA ARGAMANI: It's very difficult when you see someone that is so close to you and you know him so much, being treated like this, it's very difficult to see it. It makes you, like, shocked.

GOLD (voice-over): The Israel Defense Forces say they are doing everything it can to find the hostages and to further protect its citizens. It's evacuating communities around the Gaza Strip, but tells our Nic Robertson the safe return of the missing is a top priority.

DORON SPIELMAN, IDF SPOKESMAN: What I can tell you is that we're not going to stop until we exhaust every means possible of doing so. We will not leave any person behind and we will do anything to make that happen.

GOLD (voice-over): Israel has opened a missing person's command center so that friends and family can register people who are unaccounted for and they have been advised to bring items that could be used for DNA matches. It's an agonizing wait. This mother pleads for help to find her son missing since Saturday. She says, I want my child. I want you to help me find my boy.

A pain shared now by many Israeli families not knowing if a loved one is dead or alive or ever coming home.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GOLD (on camera): And Abby, Israeli officials now say that the bodies, number of bodies they found at that music festival now counts at 260 bodies that were found at that music festival. That might not be the total death toll at that music festival since those who were injured may have been evacuated. But this, Abby, is likely the biggest, that by itself is likely the biggest mass casualty event in Israeli history. Abby?

[17:25:00]

PHILLIP: It's a horrible event and we keep hearing more and more about the atrocities there. Hadas Gold, thank you very much.

And up next for us, we will continue our breaking coverage of this ongoing missile strike attack that is occurring right now in Israel.

Plus, we'll hear from an American who witnessed some of those Hamas attacks firsthand.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIP: We're back with our breaking news. These here are pictures of the skies over Gaza City coming in just moments ago as Israel fires on Hamas militants. Today, we also learned that at least three Americans have been killed in the Hamas attacks on Israel this weekend. And some Americans have been taken hostage as well. Others, though, are safe for now. But they are unable to leave Israel as the U.S. now works to arrange emergency evacuation flights for American citizens.

[17:30:01]

And joining me now on the phone is Alan Williams. He's a former US- based TV anchor who was just in Jerusalem on a religious pilgrimage. Alan, thank you for joining us. We are really glad to hear that you're safe. Can you tell us what you experienced during the Hamas attack?

ALAN WILLIAMS, FORMER U.S. BASED T.V. ANCHOR (via telephone): Well, it all started the first day when we flew in to Tel Aviv. And the next morning, I got up, usual, went down to the restaurant just to have a cup of coffee, and all of a sudden, I hear a boom. And that boom kind of sounds like in a construction site or something going on but it was a lot louder.

And about a minute later, the server comes over and says, sir, you're going to have to come to our safe place in the hotel. And I said, why a safe place? Well, that's when it all started. That was when, um, a rocket hit in the middle of Tel Aviv and it was about a mile and a half or two miles from our hotel. And I had a picture taken from our balcony with the smoke building up.

So that has started this whole scenario with Gaza and it's developed now. We feel like we are in a safe place now in Jerusalem. Don't want to tell you where that is, but we feel like it's surrounded by the walls, and we try to go to still some of the places that we feel are safe.

But let me tell you one thing. We were touring the Dome of the Rock the other day and up drives what we think is a big tour bus. Well, it's not a tour bus. About 50 Iraqi soldiers -- not -- I'm sorry, not Iraqi but Israeli soldiers get out armed with UZIs and start marching all around, and you just don't see that every day. We come from Knoxville, Tennessee --

PHILLIP: Yeah, I --

WILLIAMS (via telephone): -- special pilgrimage. And you see that and it's pretty terrible.

PHILLIP: Yeah. I bet this is certainly not something that anyone is really used to. Did you see anyone get injured or worse while you were there? There've been also a lot of reports of kidnappings as well. What have you seen since you've been there?

WILLIAMS (via telephone): Well, we have heard all of those as well, but we feel like we've been going to some places with our guides that they know the area pretty well, and we're trusting their judgment. We've seen a lot of roadblocks. We've seen a lot of and heard a lot of sirens. We've seen just a lot of military show up that usually aren't here, and especially in a holy area like we are in old Jerusalem. It just doesn't happen that often.

And so, they are on alert from where we are here. We occasionally hear a boom coming from somewhere. And we know it's going on, but we just hope and pray that it's not anywhere close to where we are.

PHILLIP: So, what is the mood there on the ground among Israelis and others? And are you concerned for your own safety at some point? Do you think you might have to leave?

WILLIAMS (via telephone): Uh, yes. As a matter of fact, I'm trying to get in touch with the State Department and my own congressman to find an alternative time. We're here until the 21st, supposedly until the 21st of October. And if it gets to be two or three days and Ben Gurion is the airport and Tel Aviv is not open, then what alternative do we have to get out of here?

We're not alone here. I know there's a lot of groups that come from all over the world that do the same thing that we're doing here from Americans or different countries. So, we're all stuck. We're all in the same boat here. So, we're all looking for ways to get out.

PHILLIP: Well, we wish you well, and we wish you continued safety while you are there. Alan Williams, thank you very much for joining us.

WILLIAMS (via telephone): Thank you.

PHILLIP: And when we come back, more of our breaking coverage. We are live on the ground.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:38:03]

PHILLIP: We're back with more of our breaking news coverage. I want to go right back to CNN' Nic Robertson who is in Sderot, Israel. Nic, we spoke to you not too long ago. There were rockets flying in the air. Tell us what's happening where you are right now.

ROBERTSON: Yeah, that was a really interesting moment because there was a significant number of outgoing rockets from Gaza towards Ashkelon. And we under -- we saw the intercepts and we understand now that at least one of those rockets did get through and did impact in Ashkelon.

We also saw those rockets taken off and going. Others -- rockets now firing up. If you look at the sky there behind me, you can see, you might see those yellow streaks flashing up. That's outgoing rockets going out from Gaza. Now, they've disappeared into the sky.

And the question is, will we hear the intercepts? If we hear the intercepts, that means they're headed in the direction of Ashkelon. If we -- there's the intercepts. Now, that's the sound of the rockets. That's the sound of the rockets going out. It takes time. You see them and then it takes time before you actually hear them.

So, we're not hearing intercepts. So, perhaps, the indication is that those rockets are on a longer trajectory, firing further into Israel, possibly towards Tel Aviv again. It's unclear. You can only surmise so much information from here.

There's more going up, more rockets coming out of Gaza at the moment. I see intercepts in the sky over here. There are intercepts. Yeah, there's intercepts flashing. I see the horizon flashing. You can probably see it on the camera there.

Those rockets coming out of Gaza, they're being intercepted as they're getting out of the northern end of Gaza. We know there's been a barrage towards Ashkelon. It appears that these intercepts are in that sort of same vicinity. They're being intercepted as they're leaving the northern end of Gaza on their way up the coast towards Ashkelon and Ashdod direction.

[17:40:00]

Supposition at the moment, but pretty quickly, we'll get word from authorities where those -- where those rockets may have been going to. So, it is still an active situation here and it's active on the ground in the town as well because we understand -- I can see more iron dome interceptor missiles flying up. There are the flashes in the sky over there. This is all happening at the northern end at the Gaza Strip.

So those rockets, there's more iron dome interceptions. We may begin to hear them from here soon. That will be -- that will be rockets fired from Gaza heading north, intercepted by the Iron Dome defense missile system.

PHILLIP: Nic, you are very close right now to --

ROBERTSON: You're hearing some of the interceptions.

PHILLIP: Nic, you're very close right now to Gaza. Are you safe where you are in Sderot?

ROBERTSON: If there's a siren here in Sderot, that means there's missiles coming into Sderot, and that gives us about six or seven seconds to take cover. Because it's so close to Gaza, the interceptor missiles don't have long to get in the air and take out the incoming rockets.

So, at the moment, the rockets are firing, it seems, north into Israel, towards Ashkelon potentially. So, when you're close to a, you know, war situation like this, then it's in relative terms. But rest assured, we have secure, safe places to be quite literally immediately at hand. So, the team here is safe in those terms.

The other thing that has been developing in Sderot over the past hour or so is the possibility of two or three Hamas infiltrators. It's not clear if they're newly in or they've been lying low, but it's a possibility some have been spotted and they're being chased down not so far from here.

But the Israeli defense forces are right on that operation as they have been, as they were here earlier in the day and as they are in other parts of the country. This is just ongoing in the background all the time.

And I'm hearing a helicopter in the sky above me there. That's an indication that may be brought in as part of the search here or it may be brought in because they're going to try to use it with its heavy machine guns to try to target some of those launch sites of these latest salvo of rockets.

Again, it might just be to get better eyes on the situation, to aid and assist any drones that may be in the sky. I'm hearing fighter jets as well. This is just the dynamic. And this is what we're going to see play out minute by minute, hour by hour. The rhythm of war, it goes up, it comes down. And you've just seen a little upbeat here and it'll probably be quiet again fairly soon.

PHILLIP: And Nic Robertson, thank you for all of that. A very dynamic situation where you are right now tonight.

And my team of experts is with me here in the studio. White House national security correspondent for "The New York Times," David Sanger. Also, with us, CNN global affairs analyst Kimberly Dozier. And joining us, "Washington Post" columnist Josh Rogin.

David Sanger, I want to start with you. This is a new moment for Israel, an unprecedented one. There's a debate going on right now. I just spoke to the U.S. -- the Israeli ambassador to the U.S., Michael Herzog, about this, about Iran's role in all of this. Where do you think we stand? Iran is obviously a supporter of Hamas, but is this attack an indication that they were more deeply involved?

DAVID SANGER, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: We don't know yet is the answer to that question. There's every reason to believe that as Secretary Blinken, Tony Blinken said on some of the shows this morning, they've got a longstanding relationship. What we don't know is how deeply they were involved in this.

I would not be at all surprised to discover that many of the rockets that we're seeing and missiles hear were of Iranian components, Iranian design. PHILLIP: There were also drones involved in this attack as well.

SANGER: Right. So, then what we don't know yet is, was there real operational planning? And U.S. officials tell me that while they think it's a possibility, they haven't seen the evidence of that yet. But you're right, we're in a completely new environment here, Abby.

And I think the Israeli government has three big decisions ahead. The first is, do they launch a massive retaliation while these hostages are there? Hostages are a very big deal any place, but particularly in Israel. And if there are 50 to 100, who knows exactly how many, that's going to be a huge consideration.

The second question is, if the prime minister, Prime Minister Netanyahu does decide to go in, does he go in with a plan of where he stops? He doesn't want to occupy Gaza. And then I guess the third question is, does this war spread?

[17:45:01]

Could it spread to the West Bank and Hezbollah? Could Iran get more deeply involved?

PHILLIP: We have so far, Kimberly, not seen the, you know, the involvement of Hezbollah just yet. But I wonder when you hear what the -- Netanyahu is saying and what Israeli officials are saying about the objectives here. What do you think their objective can reasonably be given that it seems to be that their goal is to basically disrupt Hamas permanently, which is a tall order?

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: They've set several really ambitious and dangerous goals. Take out the Hamas leadership and its ability to wage war and get back every one of the hostages. There are reports on the ground from Hamas saying that they've hidden these hostages inside tunnels. If you're going to get people out of tunnels, you've got to go in on the ground. That's not something that you can do from afar.

That would seem to spell out, just as we've seen tanks moving towards the border, that there is going to be some sort of Israeli incursion into Gaza, a tightly packed area. That raises the risk of Hamas killing the hostages, civilian casualties on the Palestinian side which could inflame Hezbollah, bring them into the war.

So far, Hezbollah in Lebanon has launched a couple of rockets, but it hasn't gone much past that, that they haven't shown their capability yet. We haven't seen protests sparked in the West Bank yet, but this has got a long way to run.

PHILLIP: Yeah, it certainly does. Josh Rogin, I want to go to you now. What do you think is the consequence here of what seems to clearly be an intelligence failure on both the American and on the Israeli side? What does that mean going forward?

JOSH ROGIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Right. Well, I think, you know, first of all, the massive amount of resources that are being directed towards figuring out exactly where the intelligence failures were and what can be done in the near term to make sure that those gaps are closed as quickly as possible are already underway.

But, you know, over the long term, I think what we have, what the Israelis and the Americans are going to have to realize is that there are just limits to what can be accomplished through surveillance, what can be accomplished through informants, and what can be accomplished through, you know, whatever intelligence agencies they have dedicated to this problem.

In the end, you know, if you have enough determination to pull off a terrorist attack, you know, that's a very, very hard thing to prevent 100% of the time. What seems clear is that, you know, that sort of after-action report is not the most important thing in the minds of the Israelis right now or the Americans.

I mean, I was pretty stunned to hear ambassador who tell you that they've confirmed that there are American hostages right. I saw that the U.N. -- the Israel's ambassador to the U.N. said that there were dozens of American hostages. If that's true, then that's the intelligence target of the moment. That's the most important thing. And figuring out what went wrong up to this point, I think that will have to be put on the background at least for now.

PHILLIP: David, this is the -- everybody has been using this word, unprecedented, not since the Yom Kippur War. Have these kinds of hostilities been in -- the significance of these hostilities had not been seen. How long do you think this will go on now? And what scope are we potentially looking at here?

SANGER: It is a fascinating question. So, the Yom Kippur War was 50 years ago just about this week.

PHILLIP: Yeah.

SANGER: So, it's really remarkable. And that may have figured into the timing. We won't know. Um, how long this goes on depends, I think, on three factors. The first is, what are Prime Minister Netanyahu's objectives when he goes in? I mean, I'm certain he will go in. They've got to make them pay a price here. But does he want to go in and basically forever oust Hamas from Gaza and administer it because that would be long and bloody or does he have lesser goals than that?

The second is, how much does Hamas think they can play this out? I mean, it's interesting that tonight, they're shooting rockets in and missiles, but there isn't the ground operation. It's possible that yesterday, they played their biggest play.

PHILLIP: Right.

SANGER: And then I think the third question is, what's the region do? I mean, the Saudis were on the verge of this big agreement with the Israelis. Presumably they still want that. Do they use their influence in order to bring that along? What do the Egyptians do? There are a lot around, a lot of Arab states in the region that don't really care for Hamas. [17:50:00]

PHILLIP: Yeah. I mean, and to your point, Ambassador Herzog said they think that the deal needs to happen to further isolate Iran. Kimberly, do you see that happening?

DOZIER: At this point, one of the things that's happening that fights against that is that young Arabs across the region are, for the first time, a lot of them seeing Palestinian -- quote, unquote -- "freedom fighters" bloodying Israel. And that means there could be momentum on the streets in support of the Palestinian movement in a way there hasn't been in decades. That will make it harder for Gulf leaders, Middle East leaders, to make peace with Israel because their populations fight against it.

So, this is going to -- we're going to have to see how it plays out on the ground before those kinds of diplomatic moves can be discussed again.

PHILLIP: I want everyone to stand by for me. I want to now bring in retired U.S. Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton. Colonel Leighton, we know right now that Hamas is firing on Tel Aviv. The Iron Dome is active. We have literally seen it on the ground with our reporters. Can it keep up with this latest barrage?

CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, Abby, that's going to be one of the big problems. And so, let's take a look at some of the strikes that have been going on here. And right now, you look at what's happening in Gaza with the Israeli strikes right here. But you mentioned the strikes up in Tel Aviv. Well, that's a little bit further up north here.

So, if we look at a little bit of a bigger map right here, you can see that the strikes are happening in this direction, in this area right here. They could also potentially threaten Jerusalem. There have been some unconfirmed reports that there have been strikes around Jerusalem as well. That could have a significant impact on how the Israelis respond to what Hamas is doing.

PHILLIP: And Colonel Leighton, the attacks, according to our Nic Robertson, seem to be headed toward Ashkelon, just north of Gaza. Do you have a sense of why that might end up being a place that Hamas is targeting?

And frankly, as David Sanger just pointed out, these are a lot of rockets. We're not seeing the kind of ground activity that we saw over the weekend that caused so many casualties. Is this a real source of concern for Israel right now?

LEIGHTON: Well, it is a source of concern. And as David pointed out, what the people that are running these rockets for Hamas are doing is they're trying to saturate the Iron Dome. So, what you're seeing is like an Ashkelon and places like that right up here, what you're seeing is a lot of effort to really affect this particular area.

But it is really close to what is happening around Gaza. It's not very far away and it is not something that is going to impact the Israeli response. It's going to actually probably embolden the Israelis more than anything else.

PHILLIP: Do you -- you mentioned -- you used the word "saturate" to talk about what they're doing when it comes to the Iron Dome. Is this a distraction tactic? Could it open up vulnerabilities for the Israeli defenses in other ways?

LEIGHTON: It could, yes. And one of the key things I think to think about is where all of this is taking place, Abby. And so, of course, this is Israel right here, and you have the capability of the Israelis to attack a lot of the different countries around here.

However, the Iron Dome is designed to protect the Israel and one of the key reasons for the Iron Dome was not only to protect against missiles from Gaza right here, but also to protect from missiles that are coming in from further away, all the way like over here in Iran, because the Iranians have a relationship not only with places like Syria and Hezbollah, which is based primarily in Lebanon, but also Hamas here in Gaza.

So, the Israelis are looking at trying to protect as much of their territory as they possibly can and any vulnerabilities such as that shown by the Iron Dome could make a huge difference in not only their ability to defend themselves but also their ability to respond to any attacks.

PHILLIP: Real quick, Colonel Leighton, on the hostages. We spoke to the ambassador to the United States, Michael Herzog, who told us that the hostages, according to Hamas, are being held in tunnels. From an operational perspective, what do you think that does in terms of what Israel can do to try to both disrupt Hamas, but also protect those hostages and perhaps even recover them if they need to?

LEIGHTON: Yes, that's a very interesting development. It is -- you know, when you look at where the tunnels would be, so they're basically along the border areas right here for the most part.

And if they're in those particular areas, what you have is a difficult scenario potentially where there could be a lot of collateral damage. A lot of people could potentially get injured if they have to do an extrication mission or if they have to do some kind of a hostage rescue mission.

[17:55:01]

So, it's going to be tough for the Israelis to do it, but not impossible as they go into these tunnels if the hostages are indeed there.

PHILLIP: All right, retired U.S. Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton, thank you for breaking all of that down for us.

And coming up tomorrow on "The Lead," Jake Tapper will speak with witnesses on the ground in Israel, plus John Kirby, White House national security council coordinator for strategic communications, Republican Marco Rubio, who's the vice chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee, and Congressman Dan Goldman, who was just in Israel and sheltered from rocket fire before being able to escape back to the United States.

That's all coming up tomorrow at 4 p.m. Eastern time. Tune in and don't miss it.

And thank you for watching "CNN Newsroom." I'm Abby Phillip and our teams across Israel and throughout the CNN News Organization are following every development in this ongoing story as Hamas launches a new round of attacks against Israel. Our coverage will continue with Wolf Blitzer in "The Situation Room" right after this short break.

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