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Israel: At Least 300 Israelis Killed In Hamas Attack; U.S. Officials New Aid For Israel Could Be Announced Sunday; CNN Witnesses Israeli Tanks On The Move Near Gaza; Thousands March In Yemen And Kuwait In Support Of Hamas; Israeli Forces Take Control Of Sderot Police Station; Netanyahu Vows Vengeance After Deadly Hamas Attacks; Aired 12-1a ET

Aired October 08, 2023 - 00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[00:00:39]

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN HOST: Hello and welcome, everyone. I'm (technical difficulty) into the most serious threat to its security in modern memory. Perhaps ever. Have a look at live pictures now of Gaza City. Dawn just starting to break behind the skyline there.

It is widely expected that a massive Israeli military operation will soon engulf this Palestinian enclave. Israel confirming a significant number of Israelis, including at least one soldier have been captured by Hamas militants. You see one of them here being bundled into a car, a young woman.

Their locations and fates are currently unknown. It is a shocking and unprecedented escalation in the region's long history of conflict. Israeli forces have been pounding Hamas targets in Gaza for much of the past 24 hours or so.

Earlier on Saturday, the prime minister stating unequivocally that the country was at war. And since dawn on Saturday, thousands of rockets have been fired from Gaza in rapid salvos and in numbers never before seen in such a short period of time.

In many cases, too many for the Iron Dome air defense system to intercept. In retaliation, the Israeli leader vowing to turn Gaza into, quote, an island of ruin. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): What happened today has never been seen in Israel. And I will make sure that it does not happen again. The entire government is behind this decision. The IDF will immediately use all its strength to destroy Hamas' capabilities. And we will take mighty vengeance for this black day that they have forced on the state of Israel and its citizens.

All of the places which Hamas is deployed, hiding, and operating in, that wicked city, we will turn it into an island of ruins. I am telling Gaza's people to leave those places now because we will take action everywhere.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: As the Prime Minister just said, the Israeli military warning Palestinian civilians in Gaza to leave their homes immediately because of what's to come. But the thing is, this is a Gaza Strip. It's unclear where two million civilians could flee to.

Meanwhile, Israeli forces report they have retaken control of the police station in the Israeli town of Sderot.

CNN's Nada Bashir tracking all of these developments, joins me now live from London. What do we know about the state of fighting? It wasn't that long ago that Israel was still battling these infiltrators. Are they back in control of their territory?

NADA BASHIR, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is settling the first priority, Michael, for the Israel Defense Forces, for the Israeli government. And that has been clearly expressed and they are still focusing on regaining control. Regaining in control of those territories and areas that have been infiltrated by Hamas fighters.

As you mentioned there, we saw that attack yesterday in which that infiltration took place by land, air, and sea. And we have seen, of course, some Israeli civilians and soldiers taken as hostage or prisoners of war as a result of that infiltration and taken back into Gaza.

Now, over the course of Saturday, we have seen continued gun battles in these areas where Hamas fighters have entered and infiltrated Israeli territory. But as you mentioned there, we have seen some developments in the last couple of hours overnight in Sderot.

Israeli police say they managed to regain control of a police station where Hamas fighters were set to have taken control temporarily over Saturday's of some progress on that front.

Now, we've heard from Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, describing this as the first phase of Israel's response, focusing on regaining control of those areas impacted in yesterday's attack, what will be the second response in which will be their next focus in the coming hours will be a military response.

According to Benjamin Netanyahu, they are now focusing on those offensive preparations positioning their troops ready for what is set to be a military response to the attack by Hamas fighters in Israel.

But, of course, we have seen overnight that continued rocket fire, both thousands of rockets being fired from Gaza into Israel. Many of them intercepted by Israel's Iron Dome, of course, but some making landfall hitting targets, including where we saw targets hit in Ashkelon, including a hospital there, although no casualties reported.

[00:05:15]

And in turn, we have seen a fierce response by the IDF hitting targets within. We've seen multiple high rises being targeted over Saturday, including continued rocket fire overnight from Israel into Gaza.

And as you mentioned, that warning from the IDF telling residents in these areas within Gaza to leave their homes, to evacuate, because this will continue. And, of course, questions as to where these people can evacuate to these Palestinians, because of course, as you mentioned there, this is an air and land blockade on Gaza. There is very little option for these Palestinians to flee.

So this is going to be a difficult few hours, a difficult day ahead. But as we've heard from Israeli officials, as well as Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israeli Prime Minister, this isn't just going to be a day or two days. He has described this as a long operation ahead.

HOLMES: All right, Nada. Thank you. Nada Bashir there in London with the latest for us.

Meanwhile, Washington could announce new assistance for Israel as early as Sunday. That's according to U.S. officials who say the two countries are already talking about what kind of aid Israel could use right now. The military aid was the subject of a phone call between President Joe Biden and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Saturday.

Kayla Tausche has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAYLA TAUSCHE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: The White House is working around the clock to understand the scope of Israel's needs as it responds to these attacks, which the U.S. is calling, appalling and unprecedented.

A senior administration official says the focus of the U.S. is in assisting to keep the violence contained at this stage and that there are conversations happening up and down the military chain to deliver direct support to Israel, which I'm told by sources, Prime Minister Netanyahu directly asked President Biden for in a phone call that the two leaders held on Saturday.

Officials have acknowledged that the lack of a Speaker of the House of Representatives in the U.S. and a permanent U.S. ambassador to Israel are unique challenges at this moment as the U.S. tries to get support in a timely and fulsome manner to Israel.

But President Biden says that support from the U.S. is rock solid and unwavering.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The United States stands with Israel. We will not ever fail to have their back. We'll make sure that they have the help their citizens need and they can continue to defend themselves.

In the street and their homes, innocent people murdered, wounded, entire families taken hostage by Hamas just days after Israel marked the holiest of days in the Jewish calendar. It's unconscionable. You know, when I spoke of Prime Minister Netanyahu this morning, I told him the United States stands with the people of Israel in the face of these terrorist assaults. Israel has the right to defend itself and its people, full stop.

TAUSCHE: Well, Biden did not specify the target of that particular message. U.S. officials have been clear in Iran's role as a longtime sponsor of Hamas. But when asked whether they believed that Iran was behind the Hamas attacks in recent days, the U.S. said that they could not yet draw that conclusion.

Kayla Tausche, CNN, the White House.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: And joining me now is Cedric Leighton, a CNN military analyst and retired U.S. Air Force colonel. Always good to see you, sir.

You know, we keep going back to this thing that, you know, I've been to Gaza so many times I can't count, but it is one of the most surveilled areas in the Middle East. It is constant. And yet, this comes out of the blue in a military sense. Israel blindsided. Talk about that failure and why you think it might have happened.

CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, Michael. I think this is one of the classic failures of technology because when you look at what you experienced when you went to Gaza, you saw all the surveillance techniques that the Israelis had. You saw the equipment, you saw the cameras, you saw the other devices that the Israelis used.

And we know that there were other things that they were doing in terms of monitoring radio traffic, telephone traffic, all of those things.

But what Hamas did, what their leadership did, was apparently they moved off of the normal modern communications links that we take for granted every day and went back to what you did in the 19th century, face-to-face meetings.

They went and used couriers instead of going in and, you know, using the telephone or the cell phone. And that, I think, played a large role in doing this. They seemed to be very patient, Hamas, in terms of how they planned this, how they carried it out.

And it really, I think, takes us back to a point where we have to look at the fact that technological intelligence is not always the end-all and be-all that we've gotten used to from an intelligence perspective.

[00:10:10]

HOLMES: Yes, yes, great point. I mean, Israel -- I was talking about this earlier with somebody else. Israel has, for literally years, said it will and wanted to destroy the military capability of Hamas. And clearly, that's failed. So what are Israel's options now?

LEIGHTON: The options are really limited, Michael. And, you know, this is one of those headaches that war planners always have because it's one thing to bomb something into oblivion. But it's a completely different thing to take control of a society and take control of a mindset and change that mindset.

This is -- you know, there's no way that the so-called hearts and minds of Hamas and its adherents are going to be changed in any way, shape, or form by what the Israelis do. But on the other hand, the Israelis have to respond to what happened here.

So in essence, they're caught between Iraq and a hard place because they really don't have any military means to change the things that brought them to this point. So what we'll see is, unfortunately, a continuation of this conflict but at a much higher level until and unless cooler heads prevail. And that's going to be, I think, a very difficult thing to achieve at this point.

HOLMES: Given the, obviously, the depth of planning that went into this, and it must have been a lot and probably over a long period of time, one imagines that Hamas went into this knowing the possibility or even the likelihood of an Israeli ground incursion.

How prepared do you think Hamas will be for that eventuality, a ground operation? And could that be why they took hostages into Gaza?

LEIGHTON: I think that was actually one of the main reasons why they took hostages. Of course, Hamas and other terrorist groups in the Middle East have used hostage-taking as a bargaining tool and a policy for many, many, many decades.

But the way in which they've done this does reflect a degree of meticulous planning. And I think what they're looking at is keeping those hostages so that a ground incursion by the Israelis would have only limited success and may be a very difficult thing for the Israelis to achieve.

So the Israelis are going to have to be very meticulous if they do plan something like this. And it's going to be very hard for them to find where the hostages are and to extricate them forcibly. So this, I think, will require more diplomacy as opposed to forceful means. But Israel should definitely plan for both possibilities at this point.

HOLMES: Yes. Because I guess, you know, when it comes to hostages, Israel has got some, you know, pretty capable Special Forces who could carry out such things and have done in the past. But the thing is, they would be relying on intelligence in terms of where the hostages are and so on. And we have seen this intelligence failure. So would that complicate hostage recovery make it that much more perilous?

LEIGHTON: It certainly could. But I think we also have to make the distinction between a strategic intelligence failure, which this seems to be as opposed to a tactical intelligence situation. A tactical intelligence situation is one in which now that things have happened. They may very well find the ways in which they can trace where Hamas is.

They may be able to find telltale signs of where the hostages are or perhaps where they have been. And that becomes something that they can use from a forensic standpoint in order to track them and potentially extricate them from Gaza.

It's not a done deal in either way, but it is absolutely a very difficult proposition for the Israelis to conduct such operations. There's no doubt about it.

HOLMES: Yes, good point. I mean, one thing that's been staggering about this too, well, the most staggering thing is the infiltrations, which nobody's ever seen before in covering this conflict. But it was the massive number of rockets fired in a short period of time.

Where does Hamas -- I mean, the -- Gaza is blockaded. I mean, not much gets in or out that the Israelis don't know about. Where does Hamas get the material to make and fuel and arm these rockets? Do we know?

LEIGHTON: Yes. So there are several theories, and in some cases we have some concrete evidence. But the Hamas forces have developed various techniques to manufacture some rockets, reverse engineer others. And they get a lot of aid through several means. Most of it coming eventually -- it can be traced back to places like Iran. In some cases, there is some connection to Hezbollah in Lebanon and other areas in that region.

[00:15:00]

But it is something where there has been a lot of, I'll call it indigenous work, if you will, that has been going on in Gaza by Hamas itself. And they've been pretty good at figuring out certain things, reverse engineering others, and learning from the mistakes they've made in the past.

So they've become a fairly effective insurgent force. And I would characterize them as an insurgent force because that is more of what they're like as compared to a regular army at this point.

HOLMES: Mm. I really appreciate you sticking around for us, Cedric Leighton. Colonel, thanks so much. Good to see you as always.

LEIGHTON: Good to see you too, Michael. Thank you.

HOLMES: Cheers. Now, Israel's fight against Hamas militants who invaded the country basically has stretched into the wee hours of the morning, and Israel already striking back inside Gaza as we've been reporting. The latest updates from the Middle East coming up.

Also, we talk to a former U.S. ambassador in the region about what the endgame is for Hamas in this sudden and dramatic escalation. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: The Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, says the nation is facing a, quote, long and difficult war following Hamas' shocking attack on Israel.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(EXPLOSION)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Israel unleashing furious rocket fire overnight against Gaza and the Israeli military telling Gaza civilians to evacuate residential areas. This all coming after that brazen and unprecedented assault on Israel by the Gaza-based militant group.

[00:20:13]

Israeli sources say Hamas has launched thousands of rockets against Israeli towns and cities, including as far north as Tel Aviv, and sent many as many as a thousand fighters into Israeli towns, killing some 300 Israeli civilians and soldiers and kidnapping others. Mr. Netanyahu vowing to destroy Hamas wherever its leaders and fighters hide.

Former Israeli Prime Minister and Opposition Leader, Yair Lapid, is urging Mr. Netanyahu to put aside their political differences and form an emergency government.

In a statement, he said, "Prime Minister Netanyahu knows that with extreme and dysfunctional security cabinet, he can't manage a war. Israel needs to be led by a professional, experienced and responsible government." He went on, "We need to put politics to one side for the sake of an emergency government, which will manage the situation with determination and won't deal with anything else until we achieve victory over our enemies."

CNN's Nic Robertson is just a few miles from the Gaza border and has the latest for us.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: What we're witnessing here, the first time that we've seen it tonight, is Israeli heavy armor being transported in towards Gaza. That's the road to Gaza, about two and a half miles, three kilometers that way.

And these are Israeli battle tanks. I've counted at least five. There are more trucks transporting them coming around the corner. The night has been very active.

Beyond that checkpoint there, that is the area where the Israeli Defense Forces have been contesting with Hamas militants who are still inside Israel. Where we are, this is the area that Israel controls proper. Beyond that, it is still an active military zone.

These tanks are being moved into that zone. We've heard helicopter gunships attacking positions on the ground. We've seen Special Forces moving in and out of the area around here. And we've seen a lot of missiles fired coming out of Gaza by Hamas militants and others potentially fired out of Gaza and intercepted by Iron Dome defensive missile systems.

The Iron Dome has been firing up from over here. The intercept is literally happening overhead. And that has happened on multiple occasions. We've been hearing as well Israeli jets flying towards Gaza. And then we've heard explosions, heavy explosions at times, flashes on the horizon through the night. So this is a very dynamic and fluid situation.

But this is the first time we are seeing heavy Israeli battle armor moving towards Gaza, perhaps the first steps of future deployments.

Nic Robinson, Zikim Israel.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: Joining me now is the former U.S. Ambassador to Iraq and Turkey, James Jeffrey. Mr. Ambassador, I really appreciate you making the time. What do you think Hamas' calculation was with this operation and the timing and the scale of it?

JAMES JEFFREY, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO IRAQ AND TURKEY: First, it saw Israel weakened by internal division over West Bank policy and judicial reform. Secondly, it is closely aligned with Iran. Iran wants to block the growing accommodation between Israel and Arab states, most notably Saudi Arabia. But Hamas has miscalculated. They hadn't considered how strongly Israel is going to react and that will be strong indeed.

HOLMES: So what does what's happened suggest in terms of Hamas capabilities, resources. And given their preparations for the attack itself, how prepared do you think they are for what's to come? I mean, they'll be expecting whatever the response is.

JEFFREY: To be sure, first, the Iron Dome air defense system actually worked very well despite many thousands of rockets. There have been no major installations hit and very few Israeli casualties despite all the media reporting.

Where Hamas succeeded brilliantly was this ground, air, and sea infantry assault on Israeli bases and Israeli civilian communities near Gaza with many, many hostages taking, hundreds of people killed. That is a huge blow and Israel has given orders to the IDF, as per the Israeli defense spokesman on CNN an hour ago, to eliminate Hamas' offensive capability and eliminate Hamas' ability to govern in Gaza.

That is tantamount to destroying Hamas, and that is a big agenda. Israel is going to have to go in on the ground in a big way.

[00:25:05]

HOLMES: Sadly, the routine seems to be, you know, flare up that will be -- it will be at this one, bigger than others, then a period of quiet, and then it happens all over again.

What fundamental changes, if any, can be brought to end that cycle?

JEFFREY: Remember, relatively minor Hezbollah attack out of Lebanon, another Iranian-backed terrorist group, in 2006, produced a massive, not tactically very good, but strategically effective Israeli offensive into Lebanon that has kept that front quiet now for 17 years.

That's what Israel will seek. They are going to go in. I see no other alternative to them, and they are going to take down Hamas as a major military force. We did this with the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria from 2015 to 2019. It is a long and bloody and tough fight, and the Israelis are getting ready for it. But Hamas has provoked Israel in a way they haven't been provoked since the Yom Kippur War 50 years ago. That's the reality on the ground now.

HOLMES: The thing is Israel has said many times before, and I've been covering it for decades, that they're going to destroy Hamas. They're going to destroy their capability. You know, the Gaza isn't Syria. I mean, you've got two million civilians in a very small area. They haven't been able to do that to Hamas before now. Why would they be able to do it now? What would it take to do that?

JEFFREY: That's a good question. Very important to your viewers, many of them American, because this is going to evolve America.

Before there was an understanding unwritten with Hamas and Gaza, you can fire rockets at us. We'll do minor incursions, bomb some of your headquarters, and then it settles. Again, we've seen that in 2008. We saw that again in 2014. We saw it again in 2021.

But Hamas broke the rules. They have asserted the ability to assault Israel and attack Israeli civilians in a way we have not seen since the 1948 war. Israel has to respond. They have to take out Hamas. The Israeli people and the Israeli state will not live in peace.

I have to implore you, this is not normal. That's what Netanyahu is signaling. That's what the odd is to the Israeli Defense Forces are. This is going to be extraordinary as the Israeli military is calling it. It's an unprecedented, Israeli response to an unprecedented Hamas attack.

HOLMES: It certainly was unprecedented. Never seen anything like that before with the infiltrators roaming the streets.

Ambassador James Jeffrey, I really appreciate you making the time. Thanks so much.

JEFFREY: Thank you very much.

HOLMES: As we've been reporting, Hamas says it is holding dozens of Israelis following the group's surprise raid from Gaza. We'll have the latest on the militant group's unprecedented attack and Israel's response, when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:30:54]

HOLMES: Hamas claims it has captured dozens of Israeli citizens and soldiers in its surprise incursion. A fact confirmed by the Israeli military. Videos have surfaced online, such as this one, geo-located by CNN showing an Israeli woman being forcibly pushed into a vehicle and taken away. And IDF spokesman said, it doesn't have a firm number of possible hostages but describes it as a significant number. Families of the missing are being urged to share information, including DNA with police, as soon as it is safe to do so.

European leaders and others around the world have been reacting to the Hamas attack on Israel. European Commission President, Ursula von der Leyen, speaking on the phone to the Israeli President, Isaac Herzog. She offered her support, the E.U.'s full support. And posted on X, formerly known as Twitter, that the E.U. mourns the victims and stands by Israel's right to defend itself.

Meanwhile, there were demonstrations of support for Hamas. In some parts of the Middle East, thousands of Yemenis took to the streets in the capital Sana'a on Saturday to rally for the militant group. You see them there. Palestinian flags being waved and chance of support for Gaza.

The scenes were similar in Kuwait where tens of thousands gathered to show their support.

CNN's Salma Abdelaziz shows us how other countries are reacting to the situation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: An unprecedented attack by Hamas on Israel. Israel's full bore response, including a declaration that it was at war with Hamas, and a vow to exact a huge price on those responsible.

NETANYAHU (through translator): I have ordered an extensive realization of reserves and that we return fire of a magnitude that the enemy has not known.

ABDELAZIZ: Many of Israel's allies say they stand with Israel, saying it has the right to defend itself after such a large scale in brazen attack.

BIDEN: Let me say this as clearly as I can. This is not a moment for any party hostile to Israel, to exploit these attacks to seek advantage. The world is watching.

ABDELAZIZ: No signs now of the previous rocky relations between Biden and Netanyahu. That flared between the two leaders after a controversial judicial reforms in Israel.

Germany, France, and the U.K. also weighing in, all three countries calling the attacks an act of terror with Germany's foreign minister warning of the dangers of further violence.

ANNALENA BAERBOCK, GERMAN FOREIGN MINISTER (through translator): Hamas's terror once again moved the region further away from peace. Through these terror attacks, there is now the incalculable danger of a large regional escalation.

ABDELAZIZ: Regional players like Egypt and Saudi Arabia are appealing for calm, calling on both sides to stop the fighting. Before the hostilities erupted, Riyadh was in talks, brokered by the U.S. to potentially normalize relations with Israel, with Saudi Arabia pushing for a resolution on the treatment of Palestinians before any deal could be reached.

[00:35:05]

Qatar, which historically has had both financial and political ties to Hamas, says it solely blames Israel. Though some experts say Qatar could possibly play a part in future efforts to de-escalate the crisis.

AARON DAVID MILLER, FORMER U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT MIDDLE EAST NEGOTIATOR: It improved relations with the Israelis, but they have been very supportive of the Islamists. And I think they want to maintain their ties in contacts with Hamas. They may well come in to play a role.

ABDELAZIZ: Lebanese militant group, Hezbollah, which is backed by Israel's arch enemy, Iran, praised the attacks, saying it was in contact with Palestinian resistance groups both at home and abroad, adding further concerns that what began with a shocking start could spread into a wider conflict.

Salma Abdelaziz, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: Now, one of the top questions arising from the Hamas attack on Israel is, how did Hamas plan it without Israel finding out? We'll discuss what appears to be a major intelligence failure with the top Middle East analysts in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: Israel's Defense Force says that they're still fighting off militants who stormed Israeli towns in a surprise attack from Gaza on Saturday. Earlier, Israeli authorities said they regained control of a police station in Sderot, which had been seized by Hamas fighters.

[00:40:10]

Israel has also carried out a wave of strikes in Gaza, killing at least 230 people, according to the Palestinian Health Ministry. And Israeli officials says the attacks by Hamas have so far killed at least 300 Israelis.

Joining me now is Natan Sachs, is director at the Center for Middle East Policy at the Brookings Institution. Thanks for making the time.

When you look at this attack, you have to also look at this apparent failure of intelligence to have a hint that it was coming. What do you make of that? NATAN SACHS, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR MIDDLE EAST POLICY AT THE BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: It's a remarkable failure. It's really one that's second only to the 1973 failure when Egypt and Syria attacked surprise Israel on the Yom Kippur War. That was 50 years ago to -- and plus one day.

This is truly remarkable, and it will have long-term repercussions in the Israeli system with Israelis demanding answers both from the military, but time also from the political echelon.

We don't have answers yet as to why this happened. Clearly, it was a misunderstanding, a misconception about Hamas priorities about the chance that it would try to do something. And we saw very far too few soldiers, far too few military personnel in the arena table to stop some of this infiltration. Clearly a failure.

HOLMES: Yes. Given the planning that Hamas put into the operation and the extraordinary secrecy that it entailed, keeping it quiet, how prepared then do you think they are for what Israel does next? Because you imagine they wouldn't put the preparation into the attack itself without, you know, realizing what was coming.

SACHS: Yes, absolutely. The first strike in these rounds has been very important. Obviously, Hamas knew that they would be now facing a lengthy and difficult fight, and so their leadership, which cares mostly about itself, is probably now hiding deep underground.

Nonetheless, it's quite possible that they surprise themselves with the success of their initial attack. And they may find that in some ways, as a parrot victory, Israel has been awakened into really being willing to take kind of a cost and pay a price that it was not in previous rounds.

I would not be surprised if this is a very long fight. And if Israel is willing to incur real costs that it did not in the past while entering the Gaza Strip, it may be much more than Hamas intended to bite off.

HOLMES: There was obviously a plan to scoop up hostages, soldiers, but also civilians. That clearly was part of the operation. I mean, do you -- do you think that was strategic as awful as it is? And how big of a prize for Hamas in that regard?

SACHS: Well, this was the main goal. The whole point was to capture civilians and soldiers with two purposes. The first is they can serve as human shields in the Gaza Strip now. Hamas would hope that they would stop some of the Israeli strikes.

And the second, and very important for Hamas, is as bargaining chips in exchanges in the future for prisoners that Israel holds, both from Hamas and Islamic Jihad, the small organization in the Strip.

Yahya Sinwar is leader of Hamas in the Gaza Strip, political leader, is himself a former prisoner, and has are many of his colleagues in Hamas. And he has vowed many times to try and release other prisoners in Israeli prisons. The key way to do that is via prisoners of war, and in this case, abductees, kidnapped civilians, children, even. We saw in the process, we'll give over 1,000 -- give back over 1,000 prisoners for one soldier, Gilad Shalit. Now, with dozens of Israelis, children and elderly, Hamas is probably thinking it could get much more than that.

HOLMES: What are your fears when it comes to the -- to the potential regional implications, particularly if Hezbollah in Lebanon decides to get involved? No sign of that at the moment.

SACHS: Yes. Well, Gilad Shalit, whom I just mentioned, when he was abducted in 2006, less than three weeks later, we saw Hezbollah in Lebanon join the fight and start the second Lebanon war, as it's known in Israel, a very bloody war that lasted over 30 days.

There's a real danger of that happening again now. Hezbollah has already been pushing down below and testing the ground, moving what was deterrents since 2006 and in the past year has been eroding.

There's a real chance that they try to join in this fight. Their friends in Iran would certainly like to do this at this point in time. And if that were to happen, I think we could see absolutely horrific images in Lebanon, of course, in northern Israel first, but Lebanon would not be spared.

I truly hope for Lebanon's sake, for northern Israel's sake, that Hezbollah has deterred from doing this. We already heard President Biden today speak without naming Hezbollah, but calling on any other party's hostile to Israel to be very wary of entering the fray. That is the number one threat here that this is as horrific as it already is and this was truly horrific 24 hours. This could get far worse if Hezbollah joins the fight.

[00:45:20]

HOLMES: Perhaps not the time for domestic politics, but how does this impact Mr. Netanyahu and his governance domestically, but also his regional plans more broadly. It shifts the tension in many ways from his domestic problems, but, you know, could his various outreach deals with places like Saudi Arabia be impacted because the populations of a lot of those countries if, not the governments, are sympathetic to Palestinians.

SACHS: Yes, absolutely. So, Netanyahu has been now had 10 months, very difficult 10 months of domestic unrest. Huge protests against his government and against a far-reaching plan that they had to change the balance of power between democratic institutions in the country threatening Israel's liberal democracy.

These huge demonstrations are now all paused for the first time in over 30 weeks. They've been canceled. We've seen all reservists show up for duty. And in that sense, the domestic unrest is put to the side for now.

But this kind of day, what Israel saw, the debacle in many ways, is not going to be forgotten by anyone in Israel and Netanyahu is in charge. And politically speaking, he's in very dire straits if he has a reprieve now to conduct this war which is widely supported in Israel obviously.

So, we're seeing a reprieve in the politics. We've seen both Netanyahu and leaders of the opposition talk about possibly an emergency national unity government, but we're also seeing an Israeli public that is extremely angry at its leadership.

The main goal for Netanyahu, in recent months, is to -- has been to try and achieve normalization with Saudi Arabia. That's something that here in Washington, the Biden administration has been very active exploring.

It's, of course, put on hold right now. I'm not sure it's off the table completely. Many people have said it is. I'm not completely sure. We'll have to see after this war ends whether or not it has changed fundamentals in the Saudi-Israeli relationship.

That was never based on the love of the Arab world or the Saudi population for Israel, it was based on the interests of the leadership in Saudi Arabia and the desire in Israel to reach this kind of deal. It may be back.

In the meantime, of course, here in the United States, we have a political cycle, political year that may throw a wrench into that. But I would not rule that possibility out quite as quickly yet.

HOLMES: Yes. Wartime unity for now, political fallout perhaps later.

Natan Sachs, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

SACHS: Thank you.

HOLMES: Still to come on the program, a look at how the unprecedented surprise attack on Israel unfolded. That's when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:50:49]

HOLMES: Welcome back. Israel's Prime Minister is bowing to eliminate Hamas from its stronghold in Gaza. Benjamin Netanyahu is swearing mighty vengeance, as he put it, the day after Hamas militants launched a massive air rocket and ground assault from Gaza into southern Israel.

Israeli officials say more than 1,800 people have been injured in the country. The attack taking Israel's military and its government by complete surprise. And now they're responding in full force. Mr. Netanyahu saying Israel's government has decided to block the supply of electricity, fuel, and goods into Gaza where two million people live.

Israel vowing to step up its retaliation against Hamas targets after that day of attacks. At least 300 people are dead in Israel. More than 200 in Gaza so far. The question many people are asking is, how did Israel not see this coming? With some insight, here's the former head of Mossad, Israel's intelligence service.

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EFRAIM HALEVY, ISRAELI INTELLIGENCE EXPERT: No, I think this is a unique attack. We have had intelligence failures before and we've been surprised. But this is the first time that the people from Gaza have been able to penetrate into Israel, deep into Israel.

We had no early warning of any kind and it was a total surprise that the war broke out this morning.

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HOLMES: More now on how the attack unfolded from CNN's Tom Foreman.

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TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This extraordinary series of attacks began at 6:30 in the morning when Israel was asleep with this massive barrage of rockets flowing out of Gaza. Note that this would be the level at which their most rudimentary rockets would hit, about six miles or so. Then you reach out to maybe 25 miles.

And their most advanced rockets, the ones that would most seem to rely probably on some technology beyond them. Iran, as many intelligence people would say, would reach up here to Tel Aviv. That's about 45 miles from here. Whatever the placement of them was though, there were an awful lot of them. We don't have an exact count, but it appears to be in the thousands. That would matter because that would make it easier to overwhelm Israel's missile defense system, the Iron Dome system and make sure that some got through even if many were stopped.

More importantly, by doing this, all indications are that laid the groundwork for what came next at 7:40, an hour and 10 minutes later. That's when armed soldiers, fighters started coming out of Gaza into Israel, some by knocking down walls and barriers here, some coming in by air with powered parachutes, some by boats going around here. This was something again that indicated it was a very planned attack. And soon, you saw people with rocket launchers and rifles running in the streets.

They even went and engaged military bases where you would think they would expect the most opposition gives an idea of their degree of planning and competence as they went in to attack the Israelis. And, of course, we've seen those videos of the towns that have been raided near that area where we've had reports of people being taken hostage and other people being killed.

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All of it speaks to this very notion we've been hearing about from the beginning that this represents a level of planning and execution that is far deeper than what has typically been seen before. (END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: Tom Foreman there.

Now, a number of countries around the world are lighting up some of their most famous landmarks in support of Israel. In Berlin, the Israeli flag now projected on the iconic Brandenburg Gate. Chancellor Olaf Scholz posting on social media quote, in solidarity with Israel.

Italy also showing its support. The Israeli flag projected onto the Palazzo Chigi, the official residence of the prime minister.

And in New York, the spire of the Freedom Tower is lit up in the blue and white of the Israeli flag.

Thanks for watching our breaking news coverage. Spending part of your day with me. I'm Michael Holmes. Don't go anywhere. My friend and colleague, Laila Harrak, picks up the coverage after the break.

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