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CNN International: Israel Calls on All Citizens in Gaza City to Leave Their Homes, Move Southwards Today; U.N. Says 423,000 People in Gaza Displaced by Conflict; U.S. Working to get Citizens Out of Israel and Gaza; Steve Scalise Drops Out of Speaker's Race; Protests Across Europe Over Israel-Hamas War. Aired 4:30-5a ET

Aired October 13, 2023 - 04:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:30:00]

DIANA BUTTU, PALESTINIAN POLITICAL ANALYST AND HUMAN RIGHTS LAWYER: Flee to where? There's no place for them to go, it has to provide them with that opportunity to leave and people don't want to go. These are people who have survived the Nakba, the 1975 mass expulsion, ethnic cleansing of Palestine and they're not about to go anywhere right now.

But in terms of what people are feeling, I used to live in Gaza. I have many friends there. They're sending me messages telling me that this might be the last time that we message one another. They're telling me that they love me. And they're telling me to just keep telling the world about what is happening to them. Because this is not only a humanitarian disaster, but these are massive war crimes. It's not the first time that Israel has done that. It keeps doing it over and over again and. It's the result of 56 years of military occupation, the denial of freedom. It's time for the world to step up and stop Israel rather than give it this blank check and allow it to continue to go ahead.

BIANCA NOBILO, CNN ANCHOR: But Diana, we're so sorry for the situation that your friends are in, and clearly how heartbreaking this is for you as well. So based on what you just said, would you characterize the calls from the IDF for evacuation as rhetorical cover? You don't believe that's a sincere -- A sincere sort of hope that they're trying to affect, to be able to evacuate people before they take this any further.

BUTTU: There is no way to evacuate 600,000 people within a short period of time, particularly given that they haven't given them the means to do so. They've -- remember they've cut off fuel, they've cut off electricity, they've cut off food supplies, the water is contaminated and has them for many years. So no, these this is just simply rhetoric designed to get people to somehow think that Israel is being humane. There are rules that Israel is supposed to be engaging in, and it's not. And Israel must be held to task and abide by those rules. This is why all of the humanitarian agencies have been calling for Israel to stop this bombing campaign. It's bombing a refugee camp.

MAX FOSTER, CNN ANCHOR: What about the responsibility of Hamas here? Because we've got on one on the one hand, we've got Israel saying evacuate, we've got countries like the U.K. government saying to their citizens in Gaza to evacuate, to take the Israel's advice. Hamas are saying stay put, ignore all that advice.

BUTTU: Actually, it's not just Hamas. Others are saying the same thing as well. Because the big question is how? How is it that the U.K. is going to be evacuating these people? Where are they supposed to go to? Just the first couple of days when people fled to go to Rafah, Israel bombed Rafah, the border crossing. So there's no where for people to go. There's no place for them to go. And instead it's just going to lead to mass chaos in the streets of people trying to flee within this short window of time. They're effectively -- it's like Israel is, as the saying goes, you know, shooting fish in a barrel, that's what they've been doing. They've been carpet bombing, parts of Gaza, mass bombing parts of Gaza. And all of this with the complicity and the support of the United States and other countries around the world.

This is not a solution. And what I'm left with is what does a win look like for Israel? What does Israel look like after all of this is done? What does Gaza look like after all of this is said and done? And nobody has an answer because the sole intention is simply to wipe out Gaza, it's not Hamas. It's to wipe out Gaza. That's why we see that approximately half of the people who've been killed, our children and women. And remember, this is more -- this is in in five days Israel killed half of the number that it killed in in the in the bombing attack that it carried out in 2014 which lasted 50 days. It just shows you the scale of the attack. There was no place for anybody to go.

NOBILO: Just one final point of clarification. And you just mentioned that it's not just Hamas that are suggesting that people in Gaza stay put because there simply aren't other options. Who else are you referring to?

BUTTU: There are U.N. agencies who are saying that they -- that people -- that Israel must stop bombing, that the bombing campaign must stop. They're not telling people, leave your homes and flee. Instead, they're saying stay. This is from what I have heard from people so far. They're telling people to stay. We've heard only that the U.N. has said that they are evacuating their staff to the southern part of Gaza, and they've said for that to they've warned Israel that there are people who are sheltering in U.N. schools and that these U.N. schools must not be attacked.

FOSTER: Well, that's a big thing you're saying there. The U.N. is advised. Using people in Gaza City to stay whilst other governments in and the Israelis are saying. So, I mean we need to sort of clarify exactly which agencies saying that because we haven't had that from them.

BUTTU: UNRWA came out earlier this morning with a statement indicating that their U.N. staff are being evacuated to the south, that they've indicated that Israel should not be bombing U.N. schools.

[04:35:00]

FOSTER: That's not the question. And the question is, are -- is the U.N. telling Palestinians to stay in Gaza City when there's an evacuation order? I don't think they've said that have they?

BUTTU: You're going to have to ask the U.N. From what I read into that statement, when you see that people are sheltering in a school in place and the and the Israelis are indicating that they're going to bomb, they're saying to them that people should not -- that these schools must be protected. And these schools are serving as shelter for, for Palestinians.

FOSTER: OK, we'll do that. Thank you so much. Diana Buttu for joining us.

Now, with so many of you watching, feeling compelled to help with this humanitarian relief effort, CNN is compiling resources for you. Do go to cnn.com/impact.

NOBILO: There you'll find a list of vetted organizations responding on the ground, and as Max just said, that is cnn.com/impact there at the bottom of your screen.

With Israel seemingly ready to escalate military operations, the U.S. is looking to get thousands of stranded Americans out of the country. What we know about that plan just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NOBILO: Welcome back to CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Bianca Nobilo.

FOSTER: I'm Max Foster. In Israel's war against Hamas, the Israeli military is now telling all civilians in Gaza City to leave their homes immediately today and head south.

NOBILO: The IDF says Hamas terrorists are hiding in tunnels underneath houses, using people as human shields. It's the clearest sign yet that Israel's preparing to go after those who killed 1,300 people over the weekend and tried to rescue hostages believed to be in Gaza.

FOSTER: America's top diplomat is in Jordan today for talks with King Abdullah and Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, hoping to arrange a humanitarian corridor to Gaza.

[04:40:00]

NOBILO: And in a further show of solidarity with Israel, U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin arrived in Tel Aviv a short time ago, and he'll be meeting with both the Prime Minister and the Defense Minister.

FOSTER: The Biden administration says it's working very diligently with Israel and Egypt to get safe passage out of Gaza for American civilians.

NOBILO: It's also trying to get U.S. citizens out of Israel and locate those still missing following Saturday's deadly attacks. Kayla Tausche has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) KAYLA TAUSCHE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: The Biden administration now says 27 Americans have been killed in violence in the region, 14 remain unaccounted for, and there's still a handful of Americans being held hostage, though officials say their condition is not known.

There are also thousands of Americans who, just in recent days, have registered their interest in being evacuated from Israel. That's why the State Department is now chartering flights beginning Friday to destinations across Europe and that's a departure from its previous strategy, which was to direct travelers to commercially available options.

But the White House remains adamant and says it's Israel's preference to that there be no American boots on the ground in the country. And the administration is also continuing to walk a very fine line when it describes Iran's sponsorship of Hamas. It is all part of the challenge that President Biden and his team are now facing. Present a show of force in the region, but also don't draw other rogue actors into the conflict.

The President also deeply affected by what he has seen there, is trying to channel and harness widespread outrage for the atrocities that Hamas has committed there. But President Biden raised some eyebrows this week when he described some images of babies that had been beheaded, which the White House later clarified he was referencing unconfirmed reports and comments from Israeli officials. But when asked about the importance of accuracy and the proliferation of misinformation among this war, John Kirby, a spokesman for the National Security Council, told reporters. It's important to focus on the bigger picture.

JOHN KIRBY, U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL SPOKESMAN: It's obvious what Hamas has proven willing to do to innocent Israeli citizens. We're going to -- we're not going to shy away from talking about the grotesque, grotesque nature here of what these terrorists have done. But I also think it's important that we all -- and I'm not and I don't mean this in a chastising way -- but we all have to keep the larger picture in mind here of what's going on. And how important it is for Israel to be able to eliminate this very real, very tangible, very demonstrable threat to the lives of their own citizens.

TAUSCHE: Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu showing some of those images to U.S. Secretary of State Tony Blinken, with whom he met at just this week. And Kirby telling reporters, telling everyone watching to steal yourselves for more gruesome images to come out of Israel.

Kayla Tausche, CNN the White House.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: You haven't got time for more.

Well, some of the Hamas training for last week's deadly rampage was done in plain sight and not far from Israel's border with Gaza. NOBILO: That's according to CNN's analysis of two years' worth of

propaganda videos released by Hamas. They show Hamas used at least six training camps in Gaza, including two there were only a bit more than a mile or about two kilometers from Israel's most heavily patrolled section of the border.

FOSTER: Some of the videos show training on paragliders which were used during the attack. The findings raised more questions about why Israel was caught flat footed by Hamas. Salma is here. I mean there that that debate is going to go on and on and on. Whenever we ask the IDF about it, it's, you know, now is not the time for the intelligence failures.

But I also know that you spent a huge amount of time in Gaza, one of the few correspondents to have done that. When you hear that the IDF is telling Gaza City to evacuate, just give us a sense of the lay of the land and how difficult that is.

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You have to understand that at this point already, just in the last week, people have evacuated from the north. Because if you remember, there was orders to evacuate from north of Gaza. So you already have people who have been displaced. I think that more than 400,000, they've moved to Gaza City. Some of them are sitting in U.N. shelters. The U.N. says this is an impossible order. You're giving us hours to evacuate potentially 1.1 million people with very little instruction.

FOSTER: But they clarified, now it's just Gaza City, but it's still 600,000

ABDELAZIZ: Just Gaza City, but again, just imagine being on the ground right now. You're hearing maybe it's 1.1 million, the whole of the north. The north was evacuated or asked to be evacuated days ago. Now you're hearing, maybe it's just Gaza City. Families what happens -- just from my experience being there -- is, yes, some going to U.N. shelters, many go into homes with other families.

[04:45:00]

So then you have five or six or seven families all living, extended families in one building. Just imagine the depths of people there, really, just the density of people there.

FOSTER: And some of them will be elderly.

ABDELAZIZ: Some of them elderly, and remember we have a complete siege here. So access to food, access to fuel, access to water. How does that get carried out now? The order is to move south. That is extremely vague. What is south? Where is that? Can the U.N. set up in a matter of hours to accommodate anywhere from 600,000 to 1.1 million people? If you're reading sort of between the lines, south, OK, south is Rafah crossing. Is there a hope that there's a deal with Egypt? How quickly could that happen?

FOSTER: Do they wait there? ABDELAZIZ: Is there a political will in Cairo for that to take place? Is extremely difficult for those families on the ground to ascertain where is safe. And you even heard stories in Nada Bashir's package when family saying we were told to evacuate, we left from that place came to this place only to be struck here.

FOSTER: But you know these minds when they getting these messages and Hamas is saying stay put, what's -- what are they going to do?

ABDELAZIZ: Can't speak on behalf of two million Gazans, but I can speak on behalf of a family that is just trying to find a safe place. So I don't think Hamas saying stay put is necessarily going to keep people put. It might make people -- because if you read the rest of Hamas's message, it says don't fall for it. It's a trap. It's a conspiracy, and that's the misinformation that might misguide people. Because again, we hear stories from eyewitnesses every day now who say we did move and that place wasn't safe either.

So of course there's a sense of mistrust. Of course, there's a sense of should we believe that this is the correct safe place to go to? And can there even be a safe place? And what does it mean to go south? Where is that? You are talking about a place that is being constantly bombarded. How do you move southwards safely? In what way, with what transportation and to where?

FOSTER: Without our ceasefire. Salma, thank you very much.

NOBILO: More than a week without a leader and the top contender just said forget it. The U.S. house will remain in a standstill until Republicans can agree on a new Speaker that is coming up next.

[04:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: U.S. House Republicans are expected to meet behind closed doors on Friday morning, hoping to find some way to agree on a new leader. House Majority Leader Steve Scalise pulled out of the running for the top position late on Thursday after it became clear his fractured party would not come together to support him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. STEVE SCALISE (R-LA): If you look at over the last few weeks, if you look at where our conference is, there's still work to be done. Our conference still has to come together and is not there. There are still some people that have their own agendas. And I was very clear, we have to have everybody put their agendas on the side and focus on what this country needs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOBILO: Friday will be the nineth day the U.S. House Republicans have operated without leader since Kevin McCarthy became the first Speaker of the House in history to be ousted by his party. FOSTER: Protesters take to the streets of Europe, voicing support for

both Israel and the Palestinian people. Some of those scenes just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[04:55:00]

FOSTER: Protesters across Europe have been taking to the streets, voicing their opposition to the war between Israel and Hamas. In Brussels, Belgium, hundreds of demonstrators came to show their support for the Palestinian people.

NOBILO: Pro-Palestinian rallies triggered a strong police response in Berlin, where such demonstrations have been temporarily banned. Protests in South Africa turned violent as Palestinian and Israeli supporters scuffled in Johannesburg.

FOSTER: In Paris, things got quiet for those rallying in support of Israel, while pro-Palestinian demonstrators were met with tear gas and water cannon after President Emmanuel Macron issued a ban on such protests.

We want to end this hour, though with a bit of joy and happiness. We need it, don't we at the moment? Amid the carnage and destruction in Gaza, baby Abdullah was born on Thursday in the maternity ward at a hospital in Gaza City.

NOBILO: His father is a Reuters journalist who's been covering the Israeli air strikes, the aftermath and funerals in the enclave. And now he's a father of five, Abdullah was not the only newborn in the ward on Thursday. A baby girl was born to a woman who says that she risked her life going to the hospital to give birth.

FOSTER: What a world they're growing up in.

NOBILO: I know I was just having the same thoughts.

FOSTER: Thanks for joining us today.

NOBILO: I'm Bianca Nobilo. This is Max Foster and CNN's coverage of Israel at war continues after a very quick break.