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Israel Says Its Military Forces "Increasing Operational Readiness For The Next Stages For The War"; Tens of Thousands Flee Northern Gaza After Israel Evacuation Order; Rising Fear Gaza After Israel Orders 1.1 Million to Evacuate and IDF Troops and Tanks Mass Near Border. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired October 14, 2023 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00]

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The stunning revelations raised questions as to how Hamas was able to train so openly, so close to the border for so long, and why Israeli officials were unable to pick up on and prevent the October 7th attack. Clarissa Ward, CNN, Re'im, Israel.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: And our special thanks to Clarissa for that report. And to our viewers, thanks very much for joining us. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. CNN Newsroom with Jim Acosta starts right now.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: I'm Jim Acosta in Washington. Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world to CNN's breaking news coverage of Israel at war. It has been one week since Hamas launched its attack inside Israel that killed more than 1,300 people today.

Israel appears to be on the verge of responding with full force. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu posted a video online of his visit with troops at the front line near the Gaza border. He told them, quote, "the next stage is coming." A ground invasion appears more inevitable by the hour. Israel has called on more than a million civilians to evacuate northern Gaza for their safety. Today, the State Department is urging Palestinian Americans in Gaza to move closer to the Rafah crossing into Egypt.

The reason there may be little notice if the crossing opens. But if Israel's six-hour window for safe passage from northern Gaza has expired, of course lots of questions are going to be raised by that, as Israel and Hamas trade rocket fire today. The death toll in Gaza climbs. Palestinian officials now say more than 2,000 people have died. You can see some of these buildings just being leveled throughout this operation carried out by the Israelis.

And Israel says that includes a Hamas commander who played a key part in last Saturday's attack. CNN's crews are scattered around the world to bring you the latest in all of this. Let's begin with CNN's Jeremy Diamond in Jerusalem. Jeremy, the IDF is talking about the next stages of the war. We saw

Netanyahu talking to troops earlier today, really making it sound as though this is very imminent. What -- what might this look like at the next stage of all of this?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, that's right. Israel's political leadership as well as its military leadership being increasingly clear about what the next phase of this war looks like from Israel's perspective and they are increasingly indicating that that ground invasion of Gaza that everyone has been expecting is indeed what is going to come next. And that's because if you look at what the IDF said just this evening just a couple of hours ago they talk about coordinated strikes from the air, sea, and land, being the next phase of this military campaign. And they also say that IDF battalions and soldiers are deployed across the country at a stage of increasing operational readiness and that there will be a, quote, "emphasis on significant round operations."

They are also making clear that this is going to be a long process going forward, long and grueling for those IDF troops, with the IDF spokesman saying that these will be challenging weeks ahead of us and saying that they are preparing and that they are being very deliberate here clearly as they prepare for this next phase.

We also heard this evening from the national security adviser in Israel, Tzachi Hanegbi. He is making clear what the objectives of this mission are. And it goes in line with what we have heard from BB Netanyahu, the Israeli Prime Minister talking about obliterating Hamas.

Hanegbi saying, quote, "Hamas will not be the ruler, will not be the sovereign in Gaza after the combat." So making clear that the goal here of this military operation, of this war, is not only to reduce Hamas' military capabilities but to effectively try and wipe out the group and wipe out its control over the Gaza Strip. Whether or not that can be achieved and how much at what cost that can be achieved will be a question that will be answered in the coming weeks and perhaps months depending on how long this goes on.

ACOSTA: And Jeremy, what is the situation at the Rafah Crossing which is currently the only way out of Gaza? Why aren't the gates opening up for the people to pass through there? Is there something going on at that crossing?

DIAMOND: Well, Jim, what's happening in the Gaza Strip right now is nothing short of a humanitarian disaster. There is just no other way to put it. You have 2 million people in a very densely populated, very congested area. About a million of those live in the northern part of the Gaza Strip where Israeli officials have been ordering residents to move south effectively. That was yesterday, they said that they were going to have 24 hours to do so, which the United Nations warned was simply not enough time to move the about 1 million residents of the northern part of the Gaza Strip.

[15:05:00] And at the same time they are effectively locked in because Israel is certainly not letting anyone from Gaza into the country. And then the southern border of the Gaza Strip is controlled by Egypt. That is that Rafah Crossing that you were just referencing.

Earlier in the day, U.S. officials indicated to Americans who are currently in the Gaza Strip that they might be able to exit via the Rafah Crossing this afternoon, but that crossing simply did not open, Jim. And now we are seeing based on reports in Egyptian media that Egyptian officials are saying that they will not allow, only foreigners -- that they will not allow foreigners to exit via the Rafah Crossing unless there is -- Israel allows humanitarian aid to flow the other way into the Gaza Strip. And as of yet, there is no deal for that to happen.

I can tell you, Jim, I've had conversations with U.S. officials. They have been working this problem over the last several days, working to negotiate both an exit for those American citizens as a top priority from the Gaza Strip. But beyond that, to also try and facilitate a broader humanitarian corridor for other civilians inside Gaza to be able to leave and go into Egypt. But there are major concerns not only from Israeli officials but also from Egyptian officials about how they could effectively screen those civilians to allow them to leave the country and Egypt as well is also very concerned about having a million, two million refugees on its hands inside of Egypt.

So there are a lot of considerations. And, of course, the background of all this still is the fact that Israel is carrying out what it has called a siege of the Gaza Strip, not allowing food water electricity or fuel into the Gaza Strip all of this in addition to Hamas trying to prevent people from evacuating southwards causing a severe humanitarian situation inside that very, very densely populated area, where the death toll, Jim, simply keeps rising.

ACOSTA: All right, Jeremy Diamond, thank you very much, live in Jerusalem for us. We appreciate it.

Fighting is intensifying as well on Israel's northern border with Lebanon. CNN's Ben Wedeman is near the Lebanese-Israeli border where they've been hearing prolonged artillery fire over the past few hours. Ben, what do you see now?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: At the moment, it's relatively quiet, Jim. We have heard occasional thuds to the south of us near the border, and we are hearing from our colleagues in Israel that sirens have gone off in many communities on the other side of the wall that separates Lebanon and Israel.

Now, this afternoon, starting at about 3 p.m. local, for more than two hours, we heard sustained gunfire, artillery fire, rocket fire, and small arms fire coming from the direction of the disputed Shebaa Farms area between Israel and Lebanon.

Now the Israelis put out a statement saying that 30 mortar rounds were fired from Lebanon in the direction of Israel. Hezbollah for its part put out a statement claiming that its fighters had targeted five Israeli positions in the Shebaa Farms area including an Israeli observation position.

Now, in the process of this exchange of fire according to the Israelis, they saw a team of individuals that looked like they were going to fire an anti-tank missile at an Israeli position and the Israelis took that unit out in an air strike. In the process, however, according to the Lebanese, the official Lebanese news agency, two elderly Lebanese, a couple were killed when their home was struck by Israeli fire. Hezbollah has also said that one of its fighters was killed in confrontations with Israeli forces. I just heard what sounded like a rumble in the distance. Jim?

ACOSTA: And Ben, what do you make of what is taking place in Gaza? I wanted to go back to what Jeremy Diamond was just saying a few moments ago about the Rafah Crossing. And there appears to be a diplomatic and physical bottleneck going on there. People are not being allowed to cross into Egypt. What's the potential there if that continues?

WEDEMAN: Well, the potential is that you're going to get more and more people, crowded around that Rafah Crossing as the fighting intensifies. Now, the relationship between Egypt and the United States is rather thorny despite to on the surface. They're supposed to be good and the Egyptians seem very hesitant to cooperate with the United States and its European allies to try to work out some arrangement, first of all, to get foreign nationals out. And also simply to get the Rafah Crossing open in such a way that it can function to get relief supplies in, and those who need to get out. But at the moment it seems to have hit loggerheads.

[15:10:19]

We're hearing media reports from Cairo that the Egyptians simply aren't going to open that crossing at the moment. In fact, they put up concrete blocks at the Rafah Crossing until some sort of arrangement is worked out. And the situation obviously is going to get much worse in the southern part of the Gaza Strip because we know that hundreds of thousands of people appear to have moved to the southern part, heating this Israeli order for them to move.

But we've seen in the past that even though people are fleeing to what they think are safer areas of the Gaza Strip, they're not. Jim?

ACOSTA: Yeah, and Ben, I did want to ask you about the Reuters journalist who was killed in Lebanon. His funeral apparently was today. You knew him. What can you tell us?

WEDEMAN: Well, we attended that funeral. His name was Issam Abdallah, he was an experienced Reuters cameraman. I worked with him in Syria and Iraq and also here in Lebanon. Well loved by the press corps, not just in Lebanon, but throughout the Middle East.

Now, he was killed Friday afternoon when he and other journalists were filming an exchange of fire between Israel and we believe Hezbollah militants, they were all wearing press protective gear that clearly showed that they were press. They were in a position that was open visible from all directions. It was obvious that they were not combatants in any form. But according to eyewitnesses we've spoken to, there was a strike from the Israeli side, it hit one of the cars. There were two strikes, actually. One of them killed Issam, and injured six other journalists. And anyway, it was a shock. He's from this part of the country. And at the funeral, there were people coming from Beirut, from other parts of Lebanon, many from the press corps here to pay their respects to a good friend and colleague. Jim?

ACOSTA: Very sorry to hear about that, Ben. Ben Wedeman in Lebanon for us. Ben, thank you so much.

We are watching the situation in the Middle East very closely at this hour. Next, we'll talk live with an Israeli soldier. CNN's special coverage continues in just a moment. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:16:54]

ACOSTA: You're looking at live pictures of the Gaza Strip where this region is certainly on edge at this hour, waiting to see what the next steps will be, taken by the Israeli Defense Forces as they've been foreshadowing what could be a very big ground incursion into the Gaza Strip. Of course, monitoring all of that.

And one week after Hamas began its deadly assault on Israel, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says the fight against the terrorist group is only the beginning. Rudy Rochman is a frontline soldier with the Israeli Defense Forces and a Jewish Israeli Human Rights activist. Rudy, I guess what's happening where you are and what do you think is coming next?

RUDY ROCHMAN, ISRAEL DEFENSE FORCES RESERVIST: So it's been a week since we've had, you know, this massacre happened to us in Israel. The moment that this happened, my unit was deployed as a reservist unit. We're all civilians for many, many years already. But because there are days like this, we have to always be ready to be called and we were called in. For the first four days, we were on the border of Gaza in a village called Kfar Aza, where some of the most horrendous massacres had taken place. Things that are unimaginable that we saw.

After four days there fighting the terrorists, we were taken out, now we're in a training base, getting ready to be deployed. We don't know if it's the north or the south, we don't yet know. We hope that whatever happens during this war, that there'll be a minimized amount of casualties on both sides. Nobody wants to see anybody die. And I hope that we can learn the lessons from what will happen now in order to avoid this from happening.

Because a lot of people in the medias are talking about the what, meaning the civilians that are dying. And it's important to talk about the what, but we're not talking about the why. Why is this happening?

And when you go to a doctor, you don't just show them the symptoms in order to get an answer of how to deal with the symptoms. You show them the symptoms to find out how to deal with the source. And the source of this issue has been Hamas using its civilians in order to try to shoot rockets from where they live, to kill Israeli civilians, and then to have Israel fire back, and to increase the murder of civilians on both sides in order to sell a narrative that Israel's the worst thing in the world and has to be destroyed.

And this is exactly what's fueling the conflict on both sides. People are selling the narrative to Israelis that Palestinians and Arabs are bad. People are selling the narratives to Palestinians in the Arab world that Israelis are bad.

Most of us are good human beings. We go to school, we have families, we go to work. We're human beings like anybody else. It is those who have the power, who are those that are the problem. And it's very important to not allow this war to have us not focus also on the why and not just on the what.

ACOSTA: And Rudy, do you know -- so you think you're going to be going into Gaza? Is that -- is that what you're saying?

ROCHMAN: We have no idea. I know that Israel is going to have to take out Hamas. And taking out Hamas is not only good for the Israelis, it's also good for the Palestinians, so that they can actually have a leadership that represents them.

Hamas is what, on its 20th year, it's four-year term. So the Palestinians need to be free and be able to choose their own representation that actually allows them to have freedom of speech, freedom of any sort of expression that they have.

ACOSTA: And you've been training, I suppose, for what's next. What has that training been like? And I suppose to your point that you've been trying to make, that your mission is to go and root out Hamas, that I guess precautions are being taken and so on to be able to differentiate between civilians and Hamas fighters?

[15:20:16]

ROCHMAN: Absolutely, this is why Israel gave 24 hours to the citizens of northern Gaza to evacuate the area so that if Israel were to go in, which I don't know if it will or not, I'm not on that level of clearance to be able to know those things. But if it is to go in, that at least the civilians would be out. Because Israel does not want to kill civilians ever. You know, only time that civilians are being killed is because they're in the crossfires of war that Hamas wages.

While Hamas is shooting rockets directly at civilians and going into Israel and slaughtering villages. So we have to understand where the source of this problem is here. And it's not just Hamas. There's a lot of different interest groups that are profiting from this war and selling weapons from both sides.

And so if we really want to understand how to change the what from happening in the future, we also have to keep asking why is this happening? Who's truly profiting? Not the Israelis and not the Palestinians.

ACOSTA: And Rudy, are you prepared to fight in a ground war against Hamas? Is that what you're prepared to do now? ROCHMAN: I'm a peace activist. I try to create justice between

Israelis and Palestinians. I work day in, day out when I'm not in the army, which is every single day of my life since I've left the army to bring us together in order for us to create a better reality.

However, when there's a war and my people are going to be killed, I have no other choice but to stand up. I don't want to have to kill or take anyone's life. I don't want to even have to be put in a position where I have to defend life. I want to be able to live life and others for them to live life. But if there's a war, I will stand up and defend my people. And I hope when the smoke settles, we can all look at each other and realize we made a big mistake here and not let it repeat again.

ACOSTA: And you said a little bit earlier, Rudy, that you've seen things. Your fellow soldiers have seen things. I know there's a lot of frustration on the Israeli side that there's a feeling that I guess you feel like the rest of the world isn't seeing what you're seeing and isn't living what you're living and understanding what you and your fellow soldiers and people that you care about, love ones and so of what they've been through. Do you want to take a few moments and explain that?

ROCHMAN: I don't think anyone could ever understand what we went through even if I explained it to you and I'll try to do my best. But because it was just the most horrendous thing I've ever seen in my life, or could have imagined. Imagine, Saturday morning waking up for us. It's Shabbat in Israel. And it's also the holiday of Sukkot. I wake up with my family, with my girlfriend. And all of a sudden I get a phone call from my unit saying you're being called up. And all of a sudden, I start seeing videos of things that started getting leaked. We get into our base. We get, put into a hummer, sent straight into this village.

We enter this village. This is a community of people living, there's nurseries, there's playgrounds. There's kindergartens. There's hospitals. There's elderly homes. This is a full-on community of Jews and living in this place. And all of a sudden, everyone is dead around this. Everyone, bodies, everywhere of men, women and children, slaughtered, executed, burned. The most horrendous things you can see. Blood drag marks everywhere. It's not something that would, you know, wish onto anybody or would want anybody to ever see. But unfortunately it is what we saw. And what we need to do now is to make sure that this never happens again.

ACOSTA: And I'm hearing some firing going on behind you, can you tell us what's going on right now?

ROCHMAN: Yeah, so this is training. There's no war happening. There's -- it was not shooting at Gaza. I'm on a training-based right now. And so we have soldiers that are training to prepare themselves in the case that we do need to go to war for us to be able to take out Hamas and to try to minimize as many civilians being killed on both sides.

ACOSTA: And Rudy, what are some of your fellow soldiers saying? I mean, this must be such an emotional time. What are their thoughts like? Are you -- are some of you scared? Are some of you worried that you might not come home? Worried about loved ones back home, who were worried about you? I can't imagine what this is like for all of you.

ROCHMAN: Unfortunately, we don't have the luxury to have fear because if we don't succeed, then those behind us, which is the rest of the Jewish people in the land of Israel and also the non-Jews living here, will be at threat of what is to happen. So we don't have the luxury to have those emotions. But we very well know that if we do go to war, not all of us are coming back, which is why we don't want to go to war. We don't want to take life. We don't want life to be lost on either side, but we are ready and we are strong, no matter what.

ACOSTA: Well, Rudy Rochman, thank you very much for your time and thanks for sharing your thoughts with us. Anytime you'd like to come back and fill us in on how things are going, please feel free to do so. We'd be happy to have you back on, but thanks so much. Appreciate it.

ROCHMAN: Thank you.

ACOSTA: All right, we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:29:04]

ACOSTA: And you're looking at live pictures right now of the Gaza Strip. That particular image, you're really quiet at this point. But perhaps the calm before what is to come next in all of this.

For more now on how all of this could play out in the next several hours, let's bring in CNN Military Analyst, Col. Cedric Leighton. Col. Leighton, great to see you as always. I guess what are your thoughts right now? I mean, we understand the Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu went down to the front line and essentially said the next stage is coming.

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yeah.

ACOSTA: I think that tells you all you need to know at this point?

LEIGHTON: Absolutely. You know, with Netanyahu going in like this, Jim, and talking to the troops kind of in a Commander-in-Chief moment, if you will, with all of them and really telling people, here's what to expect. I think he's probably piggybacking on what his subordinate commanders are doing. And that's the kind of thing that I think would really play into all of this as this region really finds this major boiling point right here as being the center of attention. But other things, of course, going on in the north and potentially in other areas as well.

[15:30:11]

ACOSTA: And how do you, is there a way to anticipate how might this play out the next stage? If there is a ground incursion, what that looks like in the northern part of Gaza? LEIGHTON: Well, in the northern part of Gaza, well let's see, I think

that one of the key things that you could find in this particular case is all of the Israeli troops as they're focused on, these areas, they would probably be coming in from the north and from the northeast at first and potentially also here because this is Gaza City right in this area right here.

Now, there are also troops down in the south which brings up an interesting point because all the refugees are supposed to be right in this area right in here and there's a potential that they could come in there, there could be some issues with that as well.

So when you look at what could happen here, I think this is the main focus. These are the main axes of attack if you will, and the rest of it will really play out here, but this will be the main focus of attention I think for the next 24 to 48 hours.

ACOSTA: And one of the things that we're hearing today, Col. Leighton is, there appears to be some trouble down at the Rafah Crossing. This was supposed to be the corridor for Palestinians who are fleeing the north to start heading in that direction, with the potential, I suppose, for some of them to cross over into Egypt. The Egyptians are saying, that's not going to happen at this point. That kind of a bottleneck, though, I mean, I think that could create some huge humanitarian issues?

LEIGHTON: Absolutely, that could be a real disaster right here because there's no infrastructure really to take care of anybody. Yes, the 1.1 or so million people that are in Gaza City and in these areas right around here, they've been told by the Israelis to move down along this path, this corridor right here. That is not really a safe humanitarian corridor, under standard international procedures. And so it's already dangerous for them to go there. But many of these areas, you know, in terms of the -- I do this this way. There we go. That gives you an idea of what's there.

ACOSTA: Yeah.

LEIGHTON: This was taken on Saturday, but there's a lot more of this, especially with foreign people there. And I think it really tells us that there is going to be major bottleneck and there are going to be a lot of problems in this area, especially if the Egyptians don't open things up. And that seems to be the case right now.

ACOSTA: And jumping back to what may be coming next, the battle ahead in Northern Gaza. If this ground incursion occurs over the next 12 to 24 hours, we're talking about street by street, house by house, searching out Hamas fighters.

LEIGHTON: Oh, absolutely.

ACOSTA: Potentially looking for terrorists that are holding hostages in certain locations, that sort of thing.

LEIGHTON: Well, for example, in tunnels, you know, tunnels like this, that could be one of the areas where you would see hostages. ACOSTA: This is going to be urban warfare?

LEIGHTON: This is going to be the worst urban warfare that you can imagine because of these tunnels, because of the rubble that's been created by the bombing already. The huge amount of ordnance that's already been expended in this particular area is really, I think, critical to understand that that's going to create really roadblocks for the troops that are coming in, for the Israeli troops that are coming in.

It will also provide aspects, areas, hiding points for the Hamas terrorists. And that is going to really slow things down as this moves forward, unless they find pockets where they can get the hostages, take them out, and then leave. But I don't think that's the scenario right now because the scenario is really to decapitate the Hamas organization.

ACOSTA: And the Israelis have ordered Palestinians to leave this area of northern Israel to start heading south -- excuse me, northern Gaza to start heading to the southern part of the Gaza Strip. And what is the potential for there to be untold numbers of Palestinians still there? Because they did not follow the orders. They listened to Hamas. They were saying, don't leave.

LEIGHTON: Right.

ACOSTA: And so on. I mean, that's going to add to the mix as well?

LEIGHTON: Yes, it will. Because there, as you said, there are a lot of people who have just followed the orders of Hamas. Say, they're ignoring the Israeli orders that were disseminated in part by leaflet drops. Those kinds of things are going to complicate matters because in this particular area, you are going to find a lot of people in here that just chose to stay. And in these areas right here, you will have a few other people, but they are not going to have the infrastructure necessary that they would need in order to sustain human life.

ACOSTA: Yeah. All right. A lot to keep our eyes on. A lot of moving parts, Col. Leighton. You'll be with us throughout the evening, there's the potential that things could be evolving dramatically in the coming hours. I appreciate your insights as always.

[15:35:06]

LEIGHTON: Thank you.

ACOSTA: Stay close by, we appreciate it.

And the breaking news, what the Egyptian Foreign Minister just told CNN about what's happening at a key border crossing out of Gaza, that's the Rafah Crossing. We have more information on that coming up in just a few moments. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: Looking at live pictures of Gaza at this moment, and as we've been reporting throughout the day, Israel is ordering more than a million people in northern Gaza to move south ahead of a possible ground invasion. Moments ago, my colleague Wolf Blitzer spoke to Egypt's Foreign Minister about the Gaza evacuation and the possible bottleneck at the Rafah Crossing from Gaza into Egypt. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And joining us now, the foreign minister of Egypt, Sameh Shoukry, who was the Egyptian ambassador here in the United States a few years ago, that's when I first got to meet him. Foreign Minister, thank you very much for taking a few moments out and updating our viewers on what's going on.

[15:40:08]

What exactly is going on, at the Rafah Border Crossing in southern Gaza, between Gaza and Egypt right now? There's a lot of controversy over what's going on, Egypt exposition on allowing Palestinian Americans, a dual citizens, U.S. citizens who are trying to get out of Gaza to cross that border into Egypt?

SAMEH SHOUKRY, EGYPTIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: Thank you very much for having me, Wolf. I wanted to clarify some of the inaccuracies in your piece before.

Rafah Crossing officially is open on the Egyptian side, has been open all along. And the problem that arose was is that it's -- it's been subjected to aerial bombardment, whereby on the Gazan sides the roads are not in a state that can receive the transit vehicles as well is that those operating, the Gazan side units that is necessary if third nationals come out so that humanitarian goods could come in. And we've not been able to get any authorization to send humanitarian supplies to relieve the pressures of the Palestine of Gaza up to now.

The crossing, as far as we're concerned, we have a multitude of requests for this, we are processing and have indicated that we would provide every facility and assistance. We're in close cooperation with our American friends, recognizing the importance of this issue of Americans to Canadians to foreign nationals from the Netherlands from Austria. So there's quite a large number, they have to gain permission on the Gazan side to cross. And as I mentioned, the crossing itself on the Gazan side is inoperable because of the aerial bombardment.

BLITZER: So basically, what I hear you saying, Foreign Minister, is that if U.S. citizens or other citizens of other countries can get to that Rafah Border Crossing from Gaza into Egypt, you will let them enter Egypt, is that right?

SHOUKRY: If I follow the procedure has been duty taken, they've been verified their documents for them on the government side to cross and they are allowed to do so. We will provide them all the facilities, will be in cooperation with the embassies to get them to a departure point so that they can return to their countries of origin.

BLITZER: So if assuming that U.S. citizens can get through the Rafah Border Crossing into Egypt, in Sinai, where do they go from there? Will there be vehicles, buses, cars, that can take them across the northern Sinai --

SHOUKRY: They will be in coordination with their embassies to provide them transportation? And that they will, presumably, they would find flights to the home on.

BLITZER: So will they go to Cairo, will they got to Sharm El-Sheikh, where will they go in Sinai?

SHOUKRY: Probably it would be transport by road to Cairo and from Cairo airport, onwards to their final destination.

BLITZER: But as of right now, what you're saying and I just want to be precise, Foreign Minister, you're saying the border, the crossing is open. As far as Egypt is concerned, you're willing to accept these U.S. citizens and these other citizens if they can get there, but you're saying that near that border crossing it Rafah because of bombing that's going on, presumably by the Israelis, they can't get there. Is that what you're saying?

SHOUKRY: I'm saying that the border crossing on the Gazan side is inoperable because of the damage that has been afflicted and the procedure for those managing the border on the Gaza side to verify the documents and the list of third nationals that have been provided, has not been fulfilled. So as far as we're concerned, we have indicated once again, that we will facilitate. We are in coordination with the embassies in Cairo to receive their list of nationals. And certainly as they come out, and as it is fulfilled the -- the entry of assistance and humanitarian supplies will be very happy to continue to facilitate the return to their countries of origin.

BLITZER: Our humanitarian supplies that are that are in Egypt right now able to get through the Rafah Border Crossing into Gaza to help those Palestinians who are there?

[15:45:06]

SHOUKRY: No unfortunately not, we are coordinating with the United Nations, with the UNRWA to applying for permission to have the supplies, transit through the Rafah Crossing, and be deposited within the United Nations for disbursement. But we have not received authorization to do so. So we are, I think, a very dire circumstance with -- with the -- I was just speaking to the director of the UNRWA who tells that there is no water, there is no electricity, there are no supplies, and there are no dwellings for the multitudes of Palestinians, those who have been displaced from the north of Gaza, which is very critical situation. And we would very much like to disperse all the supplies that have arrived to reach as soon as possible to meet the needs of those vulnerable Palestinians who are in these very difficult circumstances.

BLITZER: As you know, Foreign Minister, the U.S. State Department has advised all American citizens who are still in Gaza right now, if they want to get out to go to that as close to the Rafah Border Crossing into Egypt, to get as close as they can right now to leave elsewhere in Gaza and try to head south towards the Rafah Border Crossing. Is that a good idea? SHOUKRY: I really don't have comment on what the conditions are and what is the U.S. assessment of the degree of safety that can be provided for a large -- large compilation of foreign nationals that the border crossing, if it hasn't been finalized their procedures to actually cross? So I'll leave that to those who might have more information on the actual status on the ground.

BLITZER: Foreign Minister, in your conversations with your U.S. counterpart, the U.S. Secretary of State Tony Blinken, what's your bottom-line, Egypt's bottom-line message to the U.S. right now?

SHOUKRY: Well, I wouldn't put it in terms of a bottom line. We've been in communications, I spoke to the Secretary Blinken, Saturday, very early on, and we have had constant communication between the two, State Department and Ministry of Foreign Affairs and another competency Egyptian authorities. We are advocating for the need to respect international humanitarian law, the need to -- to address the concerns and the very difficult circumstances that Palestinian civilians are under. We need greater protection for civilians not to come under fire, and certainly the numbers of rising casualties and injuries with more than 500 children who have perished during this conflict. We need to -- to contain this and hopefully see a way out of this quagmire and return to dealing with the issue of resolution of the Israeli Palestinian conflict and the end of the occupation.

BLITZER: Do you see any peaceful resolution emerging anytime soon from what's going on in Gaza right now? Because it clearly the Israelis are bracing for a massive ground invasion to try to destroy Hamas in Gaza?

SHOUKRY: Well, we are always optimistic, and we are always calling for peace to be prevalent in the area to find a solution based on the international legitimacy and the international consensus on a two- state solution. The current conditions, of course, are not very conducive to addressing that. And thereby we're concentrating now on the protection of civilians and their needs, and hope to contain this and be able to work more effectively in cooperation with the United States to find the definitive resolution to the conflict. It's hard to do so when the military activities are underway. But we believe that we have to deal with all of the various aspects.

BLITZER: Has Egypt condemned the Hamas terror attack on Israel that occurred a week ago?

SHOUKRY: We have been very clear that we do not accept any form of targeting of innocent civilians. We have said so in our public statements, we have said so in the resolution issued by the Arab League, it was one of the issues upon which we insisted. And we continue to believe that all concern have conformed to international humanitarian law and avoid any grave violations or what could be deemed as crimes against humanity.

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BLITZER: The Foreign Minister of Egypt Sameh Shoukry, thank you so much for joining us. I know it's an incredibly busy time. We appreciate it very much. SHOUKRY: Thank you, Wolf.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA: And our thanks to Wolf Blitzer for that very important interview, very timely. Joining us now to talk about this, CNN Global Affairs Analyst Kim Dozier.

Kim, thanks for being with us this evening. Can we just pick up on Wolf's interview there with the Egyptian Foreign Minister and what is happening at the Rafah Crossing? If you can help us explain to the viewers out there who may not have been focusing in on this? Why is this so critically important right now?

KIM DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, that is the only crossing through which dual national Palestinians, Americans, European citizens have open to them as the Arish checkpoint in the north is completely shut, as is the -- the commerce, the only other commerce gate out of Gaza.

But the Egyptian Minister was very carefully saying that the other side of the border checkpoint and he carefully didn't say, the side run by the Israelis, has been bombed, and he didn't say, who bombed it. But he also carefully said that people with the right paperwork would be allowed through to Egypt. In other words, Egypt is not going to just take Palestinian refugees, they're not going to take tens of thousands, or hundreds of thousands of refugees, because they fear they could become like Jordan, like Lebanon, overrun with Palestinian refugees, that Israel never agrees to take back. But that leaves the question, who will staff the Gazan side of that border in order to let these Palestinian dual nationals come through? The Egyptians are basically saying it's not on us.

ACOSTA: Right. And I heard the Egyptian Foreign Minister saying it's the -- the border is open. The crossing is open. As far as we're concerned. He was very careful in how he --

DOZIER: He's not.

ACOSTA: -- express that, on his side. Yeah.

DOZIER: Well, the way these borders -- I have not been through the Rafah Border Crossing. I've been through Arish and there's just a series of gates and security procedures you have to go through. And the Arish checkpoint is staffed all by Israelis until you get to the very inside of it. Presumably, the Rafah checkpoint was staffed the same way. And Israel has said it's imposing a blockade on all of Gaza, including those border crossing points. That's why we saw Secretary of State Blinken trying to negotiate some sort of opening. At this point, it seems like efforts to negotiate humanitarian passage haven't yet worked.

ACOSTA: And is it possible that this is this development is delaying the launching of this ground incursion into Gaza by the Israeli Defense Forces, I mean, one of the questions that I had, Kim, is that if the Israelis had been ordering Palestinians to leave northern Gaza, to move to southern Gaza, but that crossing is not open to them to go into Egypt, as you said, the Egyptians don't want masses of Palestinian refugees coming into their country, the Palestinians can still potentially move to the southern part of Gaza without that crossing being open?

DOZIER: Yes. Yeah, it -- going through Rafah means going into Egypt, it means leaving Gaza altogether. And the Israeli officials have said over and over, they're not going to allow that kind of traffic until their hostages, 120, at last count, were released by Hamas. So I think also what's been delaying the potential incursion that we see the Israeli Defense Forces preparing for are all the news reports of the civilian casualties. I think there was enough pressure on the Israeli government that it had to give a warning, give this 24-hour warning for residents to go south of the Wadi, the body of -- small body of water that divides northern Gaza, from Southern Gaza, and to telegraph their moves to the enemy, which you don't normally do that, hey, in 24 hours were probably going to come in, but that they wanted to tell the world look, we're doing everything possible to get civilians out of the way.

ACOSTA: But at some point, Kim, there are going to be civilians in the way that's just the way it is. And we were looking at some live pictures of Gaza. Just a few moments ago, it is just eerily quiet and some of the images that we were seeing but it's only about 11 o'clock at night there and so you know this all too welcome that potentially we could see something occur if something is going to occur overnight tonight in that part of the world?

[15:55:06]

DOZIER: Everyone's hunkering down. Normally in an Arab town or Palestinian city Saturday night would be the night when whole families are out strolling in markets and enjoying the seaside hotels in a place like Gaza. But everyone from the reports we're hearing from people inside Gaza, they're hunkering down. Some did try to move south, some were hit by possibly Israeli or Hamas rocket fire, we don't know. While they were trying to move south so that made some people in the northern territory decide, we're just going to stay put. It didn't help also that Hamas was telling everyone to stay put. So if you decided to go against those orders, you were also risking possible punishment by Hamas.

ACOSTA: Right. All right. Well, Kim, great to talk to you as always, please stay close by if you can, as things may be developing, obviously, as these hours go on, we appreciate it very much, Kim, good talking. Kim Dozier for us, thanks so much.

DOZIER: Thanks.

ACOSTA: The Breaking News continues. Next, we'll have a live report from Israel when we come back. Stay with us.

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