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Tens Of Thousands Flee Northern Gaza After Evacuation Order As Israel Prepares For The "Next Stages Of The War"; Interview With Representative Jim Himes (D-CT) About Situation In Israel; George W. Bush Warns Gaza Is "Going To Be Ugly For A While"; Just In: Biden Spoke With Palestinian President & Israeli Prime Minister Today; IDF: Forces Are "Increasing Operations Readiness For The Next Stages Of The War"; American Death Toll In Israel Rises To 29 As Israeli-Americans Volunteer For War. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired October 14, 2023 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:44]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Jim Acosta in Washington. Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world to CNN's breaking news coverage of "Israel at War."

It is 11:00 p.m. Saturday night in Israel one week after Hamas slaughtered 1300 people in a terror attack inside Israel. Israel's military said it's preparing for, quote, "the next stages of war," and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu delivered that message himself to the frontlines earlier today. This is video he posted online of that exchange.

Along the border with Gaza, more than 300,000 Israeli soldiers with heavy equipment -- you can see some of the tanks right there -- are awaiting Netanyahu's orders of ground invasion into Gaza. It could come at any time. Israel is ordering more than a million civilians to evacuate northern Gaza for their safety. Today, the State Department is urging Palestinian Americans in Gaza to move closer to the Rafah crossing into Egypt.

Meanwhile, the humanitarian crisis in Gaza grows ever more ominous. The United Nations says water is running out, putting two million people at risk. The United Nations also says Israel's blockade must allow fuel deliveries to water plants and other facilities, saying, quote, "It's a matter of life and death."

Let's begin our coverage at this hour with CNN's Jeremy Diamond. He's in Jerusalem for us.

Jeremy, I'm going to be speaking with the IDF spokesman in just a few moments, but it just seems eerily quiet in Gaza. It seems quiet where you are. But of course, things may be changing dramatically in the coming hours.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: No doubt about it, Jim, and the IDF is making very clear that the next phase of this military campaign is going to be far more kinetic. It is going to be much, much wider, and that it is going to involve, quote, "coordinated strikes from air, sea, and land."

That is the latest update from the Israel Defense Forces in just the last few hours as they telegraphed, perhaps in the clearest terms yet, that a ground operation inside of Gaza of significant scale is indeed in the offing. When exactly that takes place, we do not yet know, but this latest statement from the IDF says that there will be a, quote, "emphasis on significant ground operations in the next phase of this military response."

At the same time, it's very clear that they are taking a very deliberate, a very strategic approach to the build-up that we are seeing along the Gaza Strip. More than 300,000 reservists have been called up. We have seen tanks and artillery beginning to be positioned in key locations around the Gaza Strip, and beyond that, of course, the IDF is also ordering civilians inside the northern half of Gaza to head south.

That is provoking, of course, very difficult humanitarian conditions inside of Gaza, but the IDF says that it is intended to try and minimize those civilian casualties, which we have already seen dramatically increasing in recent days as Israel has ramped up its aerial bombing campaign of Gaza. What we are also hearing this evening from Israeli officials is a clearer indication of what the goal is here.

We have heard a lot of fire and brimstone from the Israeli prime minister and other Israeli officials talking tough about destroying Hamas, and tonight, the National Security adviser Tzachi Hanegbi saying that Hamas will not be the ruler in Gaza after this operation, after this war concludes, saying that Hamas will no longer be the sovereign following combat operations in Gaza.

ACOSTA: And Jeremy, let's talk about what's happening in Gaza right now and specifically the situation at the Rafah Crossing, which is currently the only way out of Gaza. We heard our colleague, Wolf Blitzer, talking to the Egyptian foreign minister about this a short while ago. The Egyptians are saying that that crossing is opening -- is open as far as they're concerned, but that's not what we're hearing on our end of things.

Do we have any clarity as to what's going on there and why is that so important right now at this stage?

DIAMOND: Yes, Jim, CNN has spoken with Americans who are inside of Gaza who made their way to the Rafah Crossing earlier today after being urged to do so by American officials who believed that that crossing would be open between 2:00 and 5:00 p.m. local time today, but they were not able to go through. That crossing did not open for them, and there were some reports in Egyptian media earlier today that Egyptian officials are refusing to open that crossing so long as there is not humanitarian aid being allowed into Gaza.

[16:05:07]

We know that this all comes against the backdrop of the fact that Israeli officials say that they are laying a, quote, "siege" to Gaza, not allowing food, water, electricity, or fuel, which, according to United Nations Human Rights officials, is a violation of international law. And more broadly, we know that the humanitarian situation in Gaza is worsening by the hour. Hospitals are running out of fuel to be able to keep their generators running, to be able to continue to provide care for critically injured Gazans, thousands of whom have been injured in recent days.

The death toll is topping more than 2200, 1300-plus buildings have been destroyed inside of Gaza, and even those civilians who are able to flee south following Israeli officials' orders, there are still strikes being conducted in the southern part of Gaza as well. So it is a very, very precarious situation for those Gazans in what is one of the most densely populated places on earth.

And of course, as of yet, there is simply no way out. The only borders that Gaza has is Israel to the east and the Erez Crossing which existed previously was destroyed in this Hamas attack on Saturday. Israeli officials are not allowing anyone out. And then to the south, you have Egypt, and Egypt, as of yet, has not opened that crossing to our knowledge -- Jim.

ACOSTA: All right. Jeremy Diamond in Jerusalem for us. Jeremy, stay close by. We'll get back to you. Thanks so much.

Let's get immediate reaction right now from Lieutenant Colonel Jonathan Conricus of the Israeli Defense Forces.

Lieutenant Colonel, thank you very much for joining us. We appreciate it. If you don't mind, if I could just pick up on what Jeremy Diamond was just talking about a few moments ago and help us sort out what is happening at the Rafah Crossing. My colleague, Wolf Blitzer, spoke with the Egyptian foreign minister just a short time ago and the foreign minister insisted that that crossing is open as far as they're concerned on the Egyptian side of things, but that is not what we are hearing. Perhaps you can help us sort this out. What is going on -- what information can you provide?

LT. COL. JONATHAN CONRICUS, ISRAEL DEFENSE FORCES SPOKESPERSON: Yes, the -- what I understand that Hamas is doing is -- all humanitarian efforts to alleviate the situation. They have been obstructing and actively stopping Gazan civilians in the north from going south as we have directed them to do. And I have also seen reports, this isn't 100 percent confirmed yet, that they're doing the same thing in the south.

And at this time, I think it is abundantly clear that Hamas bears responsibility for everything in the Gaza Strip, first and foremost for the humanitarian situation, and they could change the situation very dramatically and very quickly. They only need to return our hostages and surrender unconditionally and the humanitarian situation in Gaza would be improved almost overnight.

ACOSTA: And Colonel, prime minister visited troops near the Gaza border earlier today. He indicated that the next stage is coming. How imminent is a ground incursion into Gaza? Might we see that happen overnight tonight? I know you don't want to forecast things, telegraph things too much, but are we in the final hours before something begins?

CONRICUS: Just like shaving, it's not something that you like to do in a rush. And we are looking at a very, very difficult combat area. This is densely populated urban terrain that Hamas has had the time to prepare for ground battle. They will be using everything that they have at their disposal, first and foremost the civilian infrastructure, and I think that nothing would be beneath them once our fighters get close if that indeed is what's going to happen.

So we will definitely not be rushing anything. And currently, we are striking Hamas from the air. We are hunting their commanders. We're striking their facilities. We are striking their logistics capabilities to sustain operations and we are making it increasingly difficult for Hamas to continue to operate with the end game or the aim being to dismantle them totally.

ACOSTA: And what about the hostages at this point? Have the Israeli Defense Forces essentially gotten to a point where you're not going to be able to remove the hostages and the next stage of your operation has to continue even with that in mind?

CONRICUS: Well, they are front and center and at the top of our list of priorities at the highest levels in Israel. Our hearts and prayers go out to the families that are, I think, totally petrified in fear about the fate of what's going on with their loved ones.

[16:10:05]

We are pooling and focusing all of our intelligence collection assets in order to understand who's being held and to have a final list of the people that we assess are being held, and then where they are, and then importantly, most importantly, how to develop a plan and execute it in order to get them back. But the aim of our operation here, the strategic military aim, is to dismantle Hamas and its military capabilities.

ACOSTA: And I know the Israeli Defense Forces and the Israeli government have given civilians in northern Gaza a timetable to leave that area, so they are not in harm's way when the next stage of this operation is conducted. Has that time expired?

CONRICUS: No, and, you know, it's less about a specific time. As the saying goes, somebody might have the clock, but someone else has the time. It's more about the amount of civilians that are still in that area. And what we're trying to do is to get these people to voluntarily evacuate themselves, to go south to an area that is safer, so that we can conduct enhanced military operations.

I think that the decision will be made in Israel once the situation will be deemed better from a humanitarian point of view with far less civilians there, then we can conduct and begin to operate. Again, important to emphasize, none of the civilians are our enemy. It's only Hamas that we are looking for. We are not trying to punish anybody or to inflict undue damage. We are focusing our military effort against Hamas, their leaders, and their supporting infrastructure and the combatants. Those are the ones we are after. ACOSTA: And just to press you on that with a quick follow-up question,

does that mean that there is still some time for these civilians to make their way out?

CONRICUS: There is time, but, listen, this is a matter of life and death, and people should get their stuff and go south. It's very clear. I understand that their situation is complex, and I wouldn't be where they are. I wouldn't like to be in an Israeli community on the morning of the 7th of October either, but this is where we find ourselves because of their aggression. And what I tell Gazans, civilians, take your belongings, take your family, go south, do not listen to the statements and efforts by Hamas to keep you there, because they are only using you for their political purposes.

ACOSTA: And what is the mission if and when this ground incursion begins? I suppose it's now a matter of when. Might we see something along the lines of a temporary occupation of the area? Is that essentially what we're going to see? Have your forces prepared for that, for a temporary occupation, a holding of that area until such time you feel that Hamas has been rooted out?

CONRICUS: Yes, well, we have to distinguish between the method and the tactics by which we're going to achieve the aim and then the strategy and what it will look like. If we'll be able to totally dismantle Hamas and its military capabilities within a short period of time, then there would be no need for Israeli troops to stay even one day. But as long as there's friction, as long as Hamas exists and has fighting power.

As long as Yahya Sinwar is alive and his lieutenants and their commanders are alive, then we still have a fighting capability, and the end of this war will be with a dead Hamas leadership and with a dismantled military capacity of Hamas.

ACOSTA: And so that could last for some time. That could last for days, possibly weeks.

CONRICUS: We definitely hope it will last shorter, but we are prepared, and we understand that we are on the brink of a very challenging operation. However, we will continue to enhance our operations, but we are on the brink of a very challenging operation in a very complex battleground, and obviously, we would prefer to do it quicker for everyone involved, for our purposes and for the civilians in Gaza, and to be able to return to normalcy in Israel despite the atrocities that we have encountered.

But if it takes longer, it will take longer. What matters is that the job gets done and that at the end of the war, when the last bullet is fired, there is no more military Hamas capabilities and that they'll never, ever have the ability to threaten Israeli civilians again.

ACOSTA: All right, Lieutenant Colonel Jonathan Conricus, thank you very much for your time this afternoon. We appreciate it.

CONRICUS: Thank you for having me.

ACOSTA: We know there's long hours ahead. We appreciate your time.

[16:15:02]

Still ahead, the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee joins us on the warning signs that may have been missed before the terror attack in Israel a week ago.

CNN's special coverage of "Israel at War" continues in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: And this just in to CNN, the White House says President Biden spoke with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu earlier today, marking the fifth call between the two leaders since Hamas's attack on Israel last Saturday.

Let's discuss more with Democratic Congressman Jim Himes of Connecticut. He's the ranking member on the House Intelligence Committee.

Congressman, great to see you. Appreciate the time. We were just speaking with IDF spokesman just a few moments ago trying to get some kind of sense as to when things are going to escalate there in Gaza. Obviously, they're not going to give us an exact timetable, but looking for some clarity on all of that.

I'm just curious, have you received any briefings as part of your role in the House on the Intelligence Committee as to what may be taking place and what the U.S. is doing to monitor the situation?

[16:20:10]

REP. JIM HIMES (D-CT): Yes, I have as recently as yesterday when chairman and ranking members of the various security and foreign affairs committees gathered to hear about the White House's thinking on a supplemental.

As you probably know, Jim, the administration feels like in the very short term, they're just fine to be able to provide the Israelis with the weapons and the munitions that they need, but that is for the short term, and so Congress had a uniquely dysfunctional moment, needs to figure out how to get its act together for both that and for resupplying the Ukrainians.

But to answer your question directly, Jim, you know, if it didn't come through in the last interview, you know, the Israelis perhaps are moving a little more slowly than you might have anticipated given the brutality of the attack on their country for two related reasons. Number one, unlike Hamas, the IDF will operate pursuant to the laws of armed conflict and they have a brutal task in that regard because their enemy, Hamas, stores munitions in schools and mosques and hospitals, and urban warfare is brutal in the best of times, and this is far from that.

Secondarily, I can tell you, and this is the subject of much conversation between the United States and Israel, there's -- if the Israelis don't succeed in going after Hamas in a way consistent with the protection of civilians, that puts enormous pressure on Hezbollah to get into the fight, and a two-front war is obviously something that everybody would like to avoid here.

ACOSTA: Yes, and that is something that the IDF spokesman said that they do want to give the civilians in Gaza more time. It sounds as though what they're trying to do, and I suppose this is from a PR standpoint as well, is to make it clear as best as they can to the world they want the world to get this message that they're trying to give the civilians in Gaza enough time to get out of the northern part of Gaza down to the southern part of Gaza.

Are you getting the sense or did you get the sense during this briefing that the Biden administration is pressing the Israelis to do that, to make sure that they're pulling out all the stops to avoid as many civilian casualties as possible?

HIMES: Very much so. Every briefing I've gotten -- and of course President Biden's speech of two days ago made that point distinctly, and I know that the president in his many, many phone calls has reiterated the absolute necessity of the Israelis acting with humanity, acting with a notion of self-defense, and of eradicating a mortal threat to them rather than with a sense of revenge.

You know, we all had enormously emotional reactions to what we saw seven or eight days ago, including, by the way, the Israeli leadership. And so, you know, statements were made by senior Israeli ministers that I think, you know, as they get into the excruciatingly challenging thinking around conducting a military operation in an immensely, densely packed small area, you know, I think everybody is sort of being more prudent perhaps than they were when they were looking at just the God-awful bloody apocalypse that we all witnessed a week ago.

ACOSTA: And CNN is learning that the U.S. warned Israel of the potential for violence days before that surprise attack. Do you have any insights as to what happened there? Did Israel not heed those warnings? Was it not actionable intelligence? What happened?

HIMES: Yes, I can't say much about that, Jim, and I would caution anybody from, you know, figuring out that they know whether the Egyptians warned, whether the U.S. warned, whether -- you know, how and why the Israelis were caught so much by surprise. There's a lot more smoke out there than there is fire.

I will tell you that, you know, intelligence is valuable when it's specific and actionable. In other words, that says, hey, we're seeing these tactical movements in this particular location. Be aware of that. And you don't need to be an intelligence professional to know that that kind of specific and actionable intelligence was not either gleaned by the Israelis or passed on to the Israelis by anybody else.

So the question of whether, you know, there might have been pieces saying that, you know, Hamas is getting itchy, in some ways, that's not really critical relative to the absolute importance of tactically actionable intelligence, which the Israelis did not get or have. ACOSTA: And are you concerned about and are there concerns on the U.S.

side, inside the administration, that this conflict could boil over and become a much larger conflict beyond Israel and Hamas?

HIMES: Very much so, Jim. I mean, right behind making sure that Israel has the weapons and munitions that they need and making sure that we do everything we can to locate and get the hostages released, and I'm not even going to say behind, because these are not ranked priorities.

[16:25:14]

These are all critical, absolutely essential priorities, is the absolute necessity that this war not go broader or deeper, and that most notably, of course, means Hezbollah, which is, you know, Hamas fighters have shown how brutal they are. Hezbollah is better trained and better armed. We don't want them in the fight. We obviously don't want things to boil over as you said in the West Bank. We don't want other players in Syria getting involved.

When that starts happening, this becomes a global problem, which, of course, is why the aircraft carrier, the USS Ford is on station, why we've moved our air assets to send a very -- you know, to send an unmistakable signal that this is bad enough as is, let's not let it get wider, and that's obviously a message to Iran, to Lebanon, to Hezbollah, and to others.

ACOSTA: And just very quickly, just finally, you referenced earlier some of what's going on inside the House of Representatives right now and the failure on the Republican side to put forward somebody who can be a speaker that would attract enough votes to become the speaker of the House. The House Republicans have put forward Jim Jordan. Is he somebody you can work with?

HIMES: Well, Jim, I never say never because there shouldn't be people in Congress who say there's no way I can work with this person, right? What I can tell you, the public knows Jim Jordan. He has never been somebody who has been anything other than my way or the highway, ultimatum focused. We've got serious business to do both in everything that we've been talking about but in actually passing a federal budget so that we can do everything that we need to do and not shut down.

I'm quite nervous, frankly, that the Republicans may settle on a guy who is primarily a partisan warrior rather than a statesman.

ACOSTA: All right, Congressman Jim Himes, thank you very much for your time. We appreciate it.

HIMES: Thank you, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right. And just ahead, more breaking news. We'll take you live to the White House. Our coverage continues in just a moment. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:31:19] ACOSTA: Today, new comments are raising fears that the war between Israel and Hamas could become much larger. The head of Israel's National Security Council said he hopes Hezbollah will not bring about, quote, "the destruction of Lebanon" by getting involved in the Israel-Hamas war.

CNN's Ben Wedeman is near the Lebanese-Israeli border.

Ben, what do you make of all that?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Actually, what I think is this is kind of the clearest explanation yet of where Israel stands regarding this situation on the Lebanese border.

This was a televised briefing with journalists by the head of Israel's National Security Council in which he explicitly said that Israel hopes to avoid a two-front war.

He said that the current level of exchanges of fire between Israel and Lebanon is, in his words, "below the escalation threshold."

He went on to say that he hopes that Hezbollah doesn't bring the destruction of Lebanon.

Now, keep in mind that prior to this current outbreak of fighting, on a variety of occasions, Israeli military and political officials have -- and I'm paraphrasing here -- essentially said that if Hezbollah engages in another war with Israel, Israel will bomb it back to the Stone Age.

But he said that -- as I said, the level of exchanges is below the escalation threshold. He went on to say that all eyes are on the north and added, not just eyes.

We know, Jim, that the Israelis have deployed tens of thousands of additional troops to the northern border in anticipation or just to make sure there isn't another outbreak of fighting beyond what we're seeing here.

Which is exchanges of fire between the two sides but nothing that would really seem to precipitate a full-out war -- Jim?

ACOSTA: Yes, I was just going to ask you about that, Ben. Some heavy shelling where you are.

Does that mean that we might see something escalate on that front, or is this just the typical thing that goes back and forth when these tensions rise?

WEDEMAN: Well, certainly, the tensions have never been this high. Certainly, not since 2006 during the 33-day war that took place between Israel and Hezbollah.

Yes, for well over two hours, we heard a fairly intense exchange of fire between the two sides. Now, the Israelis say that 30 mortar rounds were fired from Lebanese

territory toward Israeli positions in the disputed farms between the two countries.

But Hezbollah just a few minutes ago put out video of what they say were five strikes on Israeli military positions in the farms.

And what you see is they're using precision guided missiles to knock out communication and surveillance equipment at these five positions. And for the most part, I saw only direct hits -- Jim?

ACOSTA: All right. Ben Wedeman, keeping us posted on that side of all of this.

Ben, we appreciate it. Thank you very much.

President Biden spoke with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu once again today as tension is mounting over what the Israeli military will do next.

CNN White House correspondent, Priscilla Alvarez, joins us at the White House.

Priscilla, what's the latest? What do we make of this phone call that took place today?

[16:35:00]

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Jim, just minutes ago, we got the readout of this call that the two leaders had. This being the fifth call they have had since the attacks on Israel.

And in it, it says, quote, "President Biden discussed with Prime Minister Netanyahu U.S. coordination with the United Nations, Egypt, Jordan, Israel, and others in the region to ensure innocent civilians have access to water, food and medical care."

"President Biden affirmed his support for all efforts to protect civilians."

And later went on to say that, "The president reiterated the need for all countries to condemn Hamas as a terrorist organization that does not represent the aspirations of the Palestinian people."

Again, this being the fifth call the two have had since those attacks last Saturday.

And in it, you can hear, again, what we have been hearing from the president and U.S. officials, which is not necessarily a message of restraint so much as making sure that innocent civilians are protected in the ongoing conflict.

Now, of course, for the president, another part of this, and a complicating factor of this is that there are still unaccounted Americans since these attacks. Fourteen is the latest count from the White House. And the president spoke to the families of those Americans just yesterday, and we received -- we saw earlier video of the president doing that.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Folks, there's no -- and I know that people get on and talk to you and say they have an idea what it's like.

But I know from experience there's not a single thing more worrisome than having someone you love, someone you adore, adores you, and not knowing their fate. Not knowing their fate.

We made it clear how important this is to you, to me personally, and to all the American people. And it really is. It really, really is.

We're not walking away. We're not walking away. I promise you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALVAREZ: Now, I'm told that that call that you just saw a video of, again, that happened yesterday, lasted for over an hour, and a source described it as emotional.

Now, of course, there's also what officials have described as a small number of hostages, American hostages, that they believe are being held by Hamas.

Now, it has been very complicated in trying to get more details on this, and the explanation from officials is that it is an active war zone and this is a complicated group.

All of this, though, a priority for the White House.

ACOSTA: All right, Priscilla Alvarez, over at the White House for us. Very busy day for you on that end of things. Priscilla, thank you very much.

Israel's defense forces say they're getting ready for, quote, "the next stages of the war." Our special coverage continues just ahead. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:41:45]

ACOSTA: Welcome back to our coverage. You're looking at live pictures once again of Gaza. It's 11:41 p.m. local time.

And we are monitoring developments, obviously, as there are indications the Israelis may be preparing for that widely expected ground incursion. In just the last several minutes, the White House here in Washington announced that President Biden did speak with the Palestinian leader, Mahmoud Abbas, as well as Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu earlier today.

It sounds as though -- let's bring in Bill Cohen, he served as secretary of defense under President Bill Clinton. He's the CEO of the Cohen Group.

Secretary Cohen, great to see you as always. We appreciate it.

It sounds as though, if some of these calls are being made, the leaders are speaking to one another in these final hours before some kind of incursion begins, it sounds as though perhaps the leaders who are obviously involved in all this are checking some of the boxes.

Netanyahu was down at the border earlier today, telling his forces, get ready for the next stage. And then he's on the phone with the president, and the president's on the phone with the Palestinian leader.

That sounds as though some of the final pieces of the puzzle are dropping into place before we see some action.

WILLIAM COHEN, FORMER U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: I think it also signals that President Biden and Secretary Blinken had been reaching out to Mahmoud Abbas.

Because if they're going to destroy Hamas, the Israelis cannot afford to have Hamas as its neighbor dedicated to the destruction of Israel.

Israel is not going to allow their country to become a Hitlerian crematorium. That's vital for them and the world to understand.

But we also have to understand, it's one thing to destroy Hamas, which must be done, or at least their leadership and their infrastructure.

The other thing has to be done is to build up the Palestinian Authority in real terms, not only economically, diplomatically, but also say we're really talking about arranging some kind of a compromise here that will give you a livelihood and a separate identity and separate state.

If you just destroy Hamas, then who do you deal with? The Palestinian people have legitimate grievances. They have to be addressed. But they're not going to be addressed through Hamas.

And that's why I think these calls are going out to say, we're going to reach out to you, whatever happens here, we're going to reach out to you.

ACOSTA: If you take out Hamas, I mean, the question that immediately comes to mind is, who's in charge in Gaza? Obviously, the Israelis will be in charge, to a large extent for some time.

But I was talking to a spokesman for the IDF earlier this hour, and he was indicating that they plan on staying in Gaza as long as it takes until they take out Hamas's leadership.

But I suppose that begs the question, what then? And perhaps that's where Mahmoud Abbas comes into the picture.

COHEN: I think he has to come into the picture. The Palestinian Authority has to have leadership. The Palestinian people can't have -- look to Hamas. They have in the past. This is what Hamas brings you.

This is a country dedicated to the destruction of Israel. That cannot happen. You cannot allow that to happen.

They want the Palestinians to have their grievances addressed, but we have to do it in a fair-minded, open way.

[16:45:04]

To say the Palestinians need to have their grievances addressed as well and not just say, you know, we're going to shove you off and put you into Jordan and not ever deal with the issue of where your homeland is.

So, the Israelis, I think, are conscious of this now. They need to have responsible leadership.

They can't have extremists pushing the Israelis to a point where you see the reaction that's been taken with Hamas killing innocent civilians.

And now the Israelis, they're prepared to go in and there will be thousands of people who will die as a result of this. There's no question about it.

So, now, the Israelis are in a position where they have their finger on the trigger.

President Biden, Secretary of State Blinken, and others, saying, hold off. Maybe there's a chance here. Let's see if we can get our hostages back. And then we'll see what we can do to help dismantle Hamas.

ACOSTA: Yes.

COHEN: But this is a tough, tough position for, certainly, the Israelis, but I think the leadership of President Biden and Secretary Blinken has been terrific.

ACOSTA: Yes, I mean, I think there's a collective holding of breath at this hour.

Secretary Cohen, let me ask you this. Former President George W. Bush -- I'm sure you saw this -- spoke for the first time about the Hamas attack.

He made some pretty rare public comments about all this, but he did not mince words when talking about what might take place with an Israeli ground invasion of Gaza.

Let's listen to that talk about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Don't be surprised if Israel takes whatever action is necessary to defend herself. And it's going to be ugly for a while.

He's got to do what he's got to do. These -- you're dealing with cold- blooded killers. And you can make all kinds of excuses why they are, but they are. And his job is to protect his country.

And anyway, we'll find out what he's made out of.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: And, Secretary Cohen, I believe the former president made some other remarks where he indicated this is going to be a long and very difficult exercise for the Israelis.

What are your thoughts about, you know, what potentially might take place if the Israelis go into Gaza, and when they go into Gaza, they are faced with a situation where they're going to have to occupy that part of the world for some time.

And they're going to be conducting street-by-street, house-by-house types of raids looking for Hamas.

What might the Israelis get dragged into? Or do they have to put that to the side because taking out Hamas is just that important to them at this point.

COHEN: Well, there is Israeli blood in the water. And when there's blood in the water, the sharks start to gather. They had to be concerned about Hezbollah in the north. They have to be concerned about Syria. They have to be concerned about Iran.

Right now, their focus is get the hostages out if they can, but to say, we're coming in to destroy Hamas's capability of waging war against us as they did this past week. So, they will do what they have to do.

The danger is the longer their either occupation of Gaza or their going and killing a lot of soldiers and innocent people, then the reaction worldwide is going to turn against them.

They understand that, but they have no choice. Even if world opinion turns against them, they're saying, we are not going to relent here.

We are not going to go into a second Holocaust. We didn't survive the Holocaust in order to come to a state that's supposed to be our protection where we can live in freedom. We're not going to let you turn that into a cemetery or crematorium.

They're determined to go in if necessary. But the longer it goes on, the more demonstrations are going to take place in the United States, whether it's strong anti-Semitism in Europe and also in other parts of the world.

This is going to be tough for them, and we have to make sure the United States stands by them.

ACOSTA: Some tough days ahead, no question about it.

All right, Secretary Cohen, always great to have you on. We appreciate it. We'll get back to you for your insights in the days ahead. Appreciate the time.

More on the breaking news --

COHEN: Thank you.

[16:48:55]

ACOSTA: -- when we come back.

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[16:53:24]

ACOSTA: And this just in. The State Department just released some updated numbers, saying 29 U.S. citizens have died in Israel since the attack by Hamas.

Some Israelis, we should note in the meantime, living in the United States are heading back home to fight in the war against Hamas.

CNN's Stephanie Elam was at the airport in Los Angeles when a U.S. charter flight caring about 150 people took off for Israel earlier today.

Stephanie, tell us what you saw.

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jim, it was early in the morning and there were more than 150 people there gathered to get on this flight for many different reasons but.

And this charter flight organized in just days by Israel Friends, a non-profit, humanitarian aid that they are sending along with of these people.

And the people are going for many different reasons.

We talked to one man, who is an American. He grew up in Los Angeles. He is going back. He did serve in the IDF and he is going back because he feels compelled to. But right now, he's not feeling much else.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DOREL MELRI, ISRAELI-AMERICAN VOLUNTEERING FOR WAR: Angry. I'm angry. For my friends who I am not going to see again. I'm sad. But I'm trying to stay optimistic that we are going to come out on top because there is no other way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ELAM: Of course, his family there to support him, and also just emotional with him going, but proud of him at the same time.

There was another man who we spoke to, David Frankel, who, when the war broke out, he gathered up his two sons and his wife and fled to southern California where they have a family.

[16:55:07]

And in the wee hours of the night, he kissed his two young sons goodbye so he could make this flight.

Take a listen to his story.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID FRANKEL, ISRAELI ARMY RESERVIST: I'm obviously nervous. I want to come home safely to my family. I want to see my boys grow up. But I have to put that aside and stop the madness that's happening.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ELAM: And the details of this flight, they have kept secret just for safety and security concerns. But they are hoping to do this for more cargo to get it there to Israel to support and help out.

But the people we talked to all felt that they could help and they wanted to help. And they were happy once they found out that in a matter of 48 hours or so that there was this flight and that they could get back to Israel no matter where they grew up.

There's people from Austria, there's people from all over who are on this flight, but they just wanted to get back and help -- Jim?

ACOSTA: Yes. Stephanie, that must have been very moving listening to that father say that he doesn't know if he is going to see his sons again. He hopes to see them again but he feels he has to go to Israel and fight against Hamas.

Stephanie Elam, live in Los Angeles, for us. Stephanie, thank you very much for that report. We appreciate it.

Coming up next, Erin Burnett, my colleague, joins our breaking news coverage, next, live in from Israel. That is in just a few moments. Stay with us.

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