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CNN International: IDF Warns Of New Phase In War On Hamas As Gazans Flee; Israel: At Least 1,300 Have Died In Hamas Attacks; Egypt: Rafah Crossing Open But Gaza Roads "Inoperable"; Families Demand Safe Return Of Hostages Held By Hamas; Violence Erupts In The West Bank; Mahmoud Abbas Calls For Peace And Halt On All Attacks; Biden Speaks To Netanyahu For Fifth Time Since Hamas Attack. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired October 14, 2023 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[22:00:21]
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome, everyone. I'm Michael Holmes. As we continue our breaking news coverage of Israel at war. Israel's military says it is preparing for what it calls the next stages of war against Hamas. We've already been seeing soldiers and tanks massing near Gaza for days now, and we could soon see increased strikes by land, sea and air.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REAR ADM. DANIEL HAGARI, IDF SPOKESPERSON (through translator): We are getting ready in order to fulfill the goals of the war. IDF's role is to fulfill with all the tools and all the ways that we have. Everything we are going to operate, we will do it with full power. We are going to be extremely ready.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Israel is warning more than 1 million people in northern Gaza to keep moving southwards, even as videos emerge showing explosions and bodies along the evacuation route. This, as the U.N. says, the evacuation of more than 1 million people in such a short space of time, defies the rules of war and basic humanity.
Palestinian health officials say more than 2,200 people have been killed in Gaza, including hundreds of children, while 1,300 people on the Israeli side are dead after the Hamas attacks last weekend.
Matthew Chance is in northern Israel. He joins me now live. And Matthew, these signs still pointing to a ground incursion by Israel. What have you been seeing and hearing where you are?
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, yes, you're right. I mean, the whole country is braced for the land invasion of the Gaza Strip by the Israeli Defense Forces. And in fact, the whole region is, you know, tense because of that imminent possibility. But I'm actually 250 miles to the north of that area in the north of Israel, where there is a possibility, a very dangerous possibility of a second front opening because we're just very close to the border with Lebanon and Syria and there are big concerns in Israel and elsewhere across the region as well. That once that land invasion begins, countries or groups like the Lebanese militia, Hezbollah, may choose to enter the war and strike targets inside northern Israel.
Certainly, the Israeli Defense Forces say that they're not going to be taken by surprise on this occasion. They've deployed forces in this region. We're with a battalion of Israeli troops close to the Lebanese border right now. They've also got elements of their iron dome missile defense system in place here in northern Israel.
But the big concern is that Hezbollah, if it does enter the war, has a vast arsenal of missiles. And, you know, it could, you know, really change the sort of geopolitical situation in the region if Hezbollah attacks and if Israel makes good on its promise to strike back, potentially to destroy Lebanon if that happens.
HOLMES: I'm curious, what are the troops you're with saying about what they're preparing for in where you are, and but also those who are preparing for perhaps ground incursion into Gaza? What are you saying about their attitudes, preparations, frame of mind?
CHANCE: Well, I think, you know, people in Israel, including the soldiers, are still very shocked about what happened last weekend with, I think it's nearly 1,300 Israelis that have now been killed, have now been, you know, that are now dead as a result of those Hamas attacks.
And so, you know, people here are very sad, there's grieving. A lot of people we speak to know people personally who have been affected, either taken hostage or their families or killed. But at the same time, there is, I think, a real political push in the country to do something about Gaza. What that is, well, I mean, it's going to be some sort of, obviously, some sort of ground invasion and attack by air, land, and sea, according to Israeli officials.
But, you know, it's that kind of retaliation, I think, to sort of resolve the situation in Gaza that Israelis are now looking for, even though I think we all know that, you know, it's difficult to see how a military operation like that is going to resolve the problems in the longer term.
Here in the north, it's simply a case of making sure they're not taken by surprise in the way that the Israeli forces were in the south of the country. That led to the -- to so many Israeli deaths up here in the north. Forces are on high alert just in case that second front opens up, Michael.
[22:05:03]
HOLMES: All right, appreciate the reporting there. Matthew Chance for us in Northern Israel there. And joining me now from New York is Paul Salem, President and CEO of the Middle East Institute. Good to see you. I mean, this has been unprecedented in scale and effect, but how much more could things potentially unravel? Obviously, sporadic exchanges on the northern border in Lebanon, but notably, increasing violence in the West Bank.
Many deaths in recent weeks and months. What are the risks of violence exploding in the West Bank or further afield?
PAUL SALEM, PRESIDENT AND CEO, MIDDLE EAST INSTITUTE: Yes, definitely. I mean first of all, the unraveling of the situation in Gaza and the deaths and the displacement that we're likely to see in the coming days and weeks themselves will probably be unprecedented. Obviously, that followed an unprecedented attack by Hamas inside of Israel.
We're already seeing a lot of death from the West Bank. Over 50 Palestinians killed so far. One wonders how much the inside of Israel can hold in those mixed communities. So far, no major eruption. But the big worry certainly is what might happen on the front between Lebanon and Israel.
And in that arena, you have Hezbollah, you have Iran, the Iranian foreign minister who was in Beirut just a few days ago. And I think Iran and Hezbollah are watching the situation in Gaza. Certainly, they are keeping the -- that front a bit warm to keep the Israelis sort of distracted and keep some of their forces in the north, but I don't think they've made a decision to escalate into opening a second front. I think they will wait to see what happens in Gaza.
HOLMES: Right. The U.S. Secretary of State doing a lot of shuttle diplomacy in the region. Who might be trustworthy interlocutors for talks about de-escalation? Do you see diplomatic options at the moment? And would either side be in the mood to listen right now?
SALEM: Well, I think the U.S. is exercising both deterrence and diplomacy. Moving two carrier groups into the Mediterranean is really a attempt to deter Hezbollah and Iran from opening a second front, which would be a major escalation. And they've been very, very active. Secretary Blinken crisscrossing the region and, you know, various efforts at diplomacy.
The capitals that could be helpful in this area are Doha and Qatar where the Qatari officials have already been meeting with Hamas. Riyadh in Saudi Arabia. See how Saudi Arabia is in touch with Tehran. Saudi Arabia was also beginning to look at talks with Israel before all of this erupted.
And of course, Cairo in Egypt is a very important capital as well, since it's a territory about the southern Gaza Strip. So there's a lot of attempts to find a diplomatic pathway. Probably not in the very first phase. I mean, certainly Israel is going to implement an invasion, but it's very unlikely that they're able to do so fully.
HOLMES: Yes. And it's probably too early for that at the moment one imagines. For a long time now, the notion of a two-state solution has been in a coma. There are those in Netanyahu's Cabinet who say it's dead. They favor the annexation of the West Bank. What has been the effect of burying Palestinian concerns and aspirations for months, years even?
SALEM: Well, it's -- I mean, 20 years ago, there were high hopes that peace process was underway, was serious. That there could be a pathway to a two-state solution. But over time, that pathway has basically been closed off largely by a persistent, you know, settlement policy of Israel on the West Bank.
Successive governments pursuing that policy and creating a crisscross of highways, checkpoints, settlements in the West Bank, you know, basically designed to preempt the possibility of a two-state solution, leading all the way to the most recent government in Israel, which included a lot of right wings -- right-wing ministers who openly say that, you know, they want to annex the West Bank, and so forth.
And that has led to a mood of despair among Palestinians, in general. No pathway towards a diplomatic outcome. Israel, you know, Israeli right-wing governments pursued that. I would say the United States itself gave up on the two-state solution and continued to back sort of whatever Israel was doing.
Obviously, that's very different from Hamas and Hamas is ideology and Hamas is horrific attack, terrorist attack in Israel. Those are two very different things.
[22:10:01]
And at least I hope that at the end of this very, very terrible episode, which is still going to cost a lot of lives and a lot of displacement, that at least there will be a serious return at least through the West Bank to talk about a two-state solution with Arab partners, with U.S. engagement and probably with a new Israeli government.
HOLMES: Israel's response to the massacre of its civilians is expected, of course. But, you know, given the scale of what's happened and what's to come, one question that could be considered soon, or will have to be, is what comes after? Who fixes Gaza, caters to the population, governs if Hamas is indeed routed? Who owns what's left?
SALEM: Well, a couple of things. I mean, first, we have to understand that Hamas and its backers, Hezbollah and Iran, probably designed the action of Hamas in order to elicit a ground invasion and an attack. They, you know, any military planner would know that any such attack inside Israel would automatically create a reaction.
So one has to wonder, you know, what Hamas has in store. Certainly, they've been preparing for, you know, an invasion for many, many years. Hezbollah has a lot of experience with Israeli invasions. So one must keep in mind that Hamas will not be taken by surprise. And while civilians have nowhere to hide, I'm sure Hamas fighters, Hamas officials have many places to hide, have many escape routes.
And I doubt that, you know, an Israeli action will be able to stamp out Hamas or defeat it completely. Also, I mean, Israel is really reacting to a very, very horrific attack on its citizens and its civilians, as well as some military personnel. But so far, it's largely a reaction. One can see what they wish to do, but it's not very clear that they have an end game in mind.
If they do succeed in occupying the -- in the whole territory, holding that territory is very, very difficult and costly. There's no other third party which would easily come back into this territory and try to govern it. So that's why I think the diplomacy, the U.S.-led diplomacy, regional diplomacy after the first few days and weeks of this episode, there's going to have to be some serious, you know, negotiation and diplomacy, including to release of the 150 captives.
HOLMES: Yes, yes. I appreciate the analysis. Paul Salem there in New York. Thanks so much.
SALEM: Thank you.
HOLMES: All right, turning now to the situation south of Gaza or in the south of Gaza, aid convoys arriving in Egypt are preparing to enter the territory. The Egyptian foreign minister says the Rafah crossing with Gaza is open, but roads on the Gazan side cannot be used because of aerial bombardment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAMEH SHOUKRY, EGYPTIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: Border crossing on the Gaza side is inoperable because of the damage that has been afflicted and the procedure for those managing the border on the Gaza side to verify the documents and the lists of third nationals that have been provided has not been fulfilled.
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HOLMES: Salma Abdelaziz now with more on the plight people in Gaza are now facing. A warning her report contains graphic and disturbing images.
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SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is what running for your life looks like in Gaza. An ambulance with a young girl and wounded woman inside, rocked by explosions as they attempt to flee. It is unclear what happened to the pair, but they're among the tens of thousands of people on the move, after Israel's military called on nearly half of Gaza's population, some 1.1 million people, to get south in a matter of hours.
But along the safe passages specified by the IDF, utter horror. You're looking at the carnage and chaos on Salah al-Din Street, one of the designated evacuation routes. In the aftermath of explosions, families killed amid their belongings. CNN has geolocated this video and four other clips from the horrifying scene.
The U.N. calls Israel's evacuation advisory impossible and a violation of the rules of war. And Palestinian officials accused the IDF of bombing civilians even as they fled. Dozens of evacuees were killed or wounded by Israeli airstrikes, according to Hamas. CNN has reached out to the Israeli military for comment.
The victims are flooding into Gaza's overwhelmed hospitals, and again, it's the youngest caught in the crossfire. Nearly half of Gaza's population is children.
[22:15:09]
What did the children do to deserve this? This woman says. Did they fight you? Did they fire rockets? My niece and her whole family are dead. The only survivor is a two-year-old girl.
The health care system is on the brink. A complete siege, making it impossible to get aid into the enclave. And already, there's a shortage of everything. Even space in the morgue.
We're keeping the dead in ice cream trucks so the bodies don't rot, this doctor says. Gaza is in crisis. Gaza needs help.
For those still able to move south, this is one of the neighborhoods families are expected to flee towards, Khan Yunis, where Israeli airstrikes have wreaked havoc.
This is a genocide, not a war. It's genocide, this man says. And it's an attempt to force all Palestinians out of the Gaza Strip. Finding refuge is proving dangerous and deadly. And for the many families desperate for shelter, the fear is there may be no safe places left.
Salma Abdelaziz, CNN, London.
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Iran is warning of far-reaching consequences if Israel does not stop its attack on Gaza. Iran's mission to the U.N. issued those remarks on social media Saturday, as Tehran's foreign minister met with the leader of the Hamas political wing in Doha, Qatar. It is reportedly the first formal meeting between Iranian officials and Hamas's Ismail Haniyeh since Saturday's attack. While Iran and Hamas, a longtime allies, U.S. intelligence has suggested Tehran was surprised by Saturday's attack.
One week after the Hamas attacks, violence is beginning to spill over into the West Bank. A look at the events unfolding when we come back.
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HOLMES: In Tel Aviv, dozens of people, including the families of those still missing, demonstrated outside of Israel's defense ministry on Saturday. They were demanding the safe return of hostages held by Hamas. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AVICHAI BRODTZ, WIFE AND CHILDREN ARE MISSING: My children are missing along with another girl that came running to us. I'm here because I want the Israeli government, along with the Hamas organization, both I have to say it sounds not so out of context right now. But overall, we're religious countries.
Israel is a Jewish and Hamas are Muslim. Both are peaceful, loving religions. I think over the past years, you know, we got into a situation we don't know how to get out of. And it led to what has happened right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[22:20:07]
HOLMES: Now violence is rising in the occupied West Bank, including settlers being accused of increased attacks on Palestinians. Palestinian officials say at least 53 people have been killed, more than 1,000 injured. CNN's Becky Anderson reports.
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BECKY ANDERSON, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): A disturbing sight. An Israeli settler shooting a Palestinian point blank in the South Hebron Hills. While the man who was shot in this video did survive, many others who confronted with settler violence across the occupied West Bank recently have not. CNN has reached out to Israel's police for comment on this shooting but has not received a response.
Nearly a week into the war between Hamas and Israel, at least 47 Palestinians have been killed in the West Bank by settlers and Israeli forces, with hundreds of others injured. Fears that the violence would spill over into this area are beginning to feel very real.
At the heart of the conflict, this place, Al-Aqsa Mosque, usually filled with tens of thousands of worshippers, gathered for Friday prayers. Today, almost empty. The Israeli police restricting access to the compound only letting in the elderly. 57-year-old Untama (ph) says, seeing the compound so empty is upsetting.
The atmosphere was so tense. It was difficult getting in, she says. We are just going there to pray. We're not going to fight. We're not going to war. What is a worshipper expected to do?
Meantime, piles of prayer mats as younger Palestinians were forced to worship on the streets. Abbas (ph) was one of them. He says, this feels like an inflection point in this decades-long conflict.
It's very different this time around, he says. This time it feels more difficult. May God grant us relief.
Fridays can be fraught here. Over the years, all too often, these streets have witnessed clashes between Palestinians and Israeli police. And today, stun grenades, tear gas, and skunk water used to disperse local residents and worshippers.
Munir Kamal (ph) was reportedly one of them. His nephew, Qasem (ph), said that his uncle was attacked by Israeli police as he tried to pray close to his home after being barred from Al-Aqsa. Like many civilians here, Qasem (ph) fears for his family's safety. What's happening is very ugly. I can't explain it to my kids. I'm trying to distract them, so they don't get scared, Qasem says. So, many people here scared about what happens next.
They robbed us of our homeland, and now they punish us here in Al- Aqsa, and they punish the people of Gaza. They annihilated this small, tight space. Why? Why do they deserve that, she says.
Becky Anderson, CNN, East Jerusalem.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: Former Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett says his country is eager to hit back. He shares his take on the days to come in the Hamas-Israel conflict. That's when we come back.
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[22:26:05]
HOLMES: And we continue to follow the latest from Israel and Gaza. The president of the Palestinian Authority, Mahmoud Abbas, has called on U.S. President Joe Biden to push for peace in the region. Mr. Abbas also called for an immediate halt to attacks in Gaza that coming as Israeli troops appear to be getting ready for a potential ground invasion into the Palestinian enclave.
The IDF says they're, quote, "Increasing operational readiness for the next stages of war". President Biden has spoken to the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu for the fifth time since last week's terror attacks. The White House says he warned against expanding the conflict, but also pledged continued support for civilians in the region.
Meanwhile, thousands of Palestinians already fleeing southwards. The Egyptian foreign minister says the Rafah crossing with Gaza is open from their side, but roads on the Gaza side cannot be used because of aerial attacks.
A short time ago, CNN's Erin Burnett spoke with former Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett for his assessment of the current situation. Have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NAFTALI BENNETT, FORMER ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: Well, we're still licking our wounds and have not identified all of the slaughtered Israelis. So that's one process. Right now in the south, it seems that we're on top of things. And here and there, there's a bunch of terrorists jumping out. We, by in large, kill them.
We're in a lull right now in the -- waiting for the next phase of the next phase is going to be our counterattack on Gaza. The big murder event is behind us, and now we're going to hit back within days.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: Within days, and I guess that is the question, because it does feel here. We try to explain to everyone around the world, just there's this sense of waiting, but an ominous waiting, right? And businesses aren't fully open, and kids aren't in school, and the troops are on the border. That you can't wait like that for long, and it sounds like you're not anticipating waiting like that for long.
BENNETT: That's right. You know, I can't say exactly how long, but what I can tell you is that across the board in Israel, everyone wall- to-wall are eager to hit back. I've been visiting various units. I myself was a combat soldier and the enrollment rates, the enlisting rates are at about 130 percent which mean people who already were discharged years ago from reserve service are insisting to join and fight because Israel took a huge hit. But make no mistake, while our hearts are shattered, our spirit is strong and we're going to hit back.
BURNETT: And, you know, you talk about 130 percent. I've met a few of them. Once you said, yoga instructor, I'm done. He's done my reserves. I came back in. So they are all there.
BENNETT: I also wanted to do it, but they didn't let me because I'm a prime minister, you know, former prime minister.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Erin Burnett there with Naftali Bennett.
The U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken traveled to the United Arab Emirates on Saturday, meeting there with the president and discussing humanitarian aid and ways to protect civilians. This is Blinken's fifth stop in a diplomatic tour of the region aimed at stopping expansion of the war between Hamas and Israel.
Blinken started the day in Saudi Arabia. He's scheduled to stop in Egypt on Sunday before returning to the U.S.
And the U.S. has sent additional military support to the eastern Mediterranean. On Friday, the Pentagon ordering the USS Eisenhower strike group to the region. It will join the USS Ford strike group, which arrived off the coast of Israel earlier this week.
U.S. officials tell CNN that a Marine Expeditionary Unit is also getting ready to deploy if needed. The U.S. military aid is not intended to join in fighting, but to send a message of deterrence and prevent an expansion of the conflict.
[22:30:00]
CNN's Pentagon Correspondent Oren Liebermann joins me now to talk more about this. Oren, the U.S. sending the second aircraft carrier strike group, what's the reason and the messaging?
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Michael, it's quite rare that you'll see two aircraft carrier strike groups in the same area at the exact same time, but that's the severity and the seriousness with which the Biden administration and the Pentagon view this as they try to make sure the fighting stays contained to Israel and Hamas in Gaza.
There are certainly fears and concerns of a wider regional conflict that could lead to perhaps massive and very deadly escalation. So that's the purpose of the second carrier strike group now headed towards the eastern Mediterranean Sea.
It only left the east coast of the U.S. yesterday, so it'll take a couple of weeks to get there. It is not in any way intended to get involved in the fighting in Israel instead. It's a message of deterrence to Iran and Iranian proxies in the region, not to get involved specifically and most loudly to Hezbollah in Lebanon, right on Israel's northern border there, Michael.
HOLMES: Yes. And separately, I know you've been looking into the types of weaponry Hamas had when it carried out its terror attacks inside Israel. Tell us more about what you found.
LIEBERMANN: This is quite interesting from all the videos that were put out, not only by Hamas, but also videos that were picked up as they were coming out. We went through a lot of these videos and a lot of the images to look at what sort of weapons they used. And here's what we found.
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LIEBERMANN (voice-over): An entire arsenal on display. Weapons fashioned in Hamas' homegrown facilities, but no less deadly. CNN analyzed dozens of photos and videos of Hamas militants during the surprise assault to identify the weapons used to kill at least 1,200 people in Israel.
MAJ. MIKE LYONS, U.S. ARMY (RET.): The most important characteristic of the military equipment they have is that it's easily interchangeable, it's reliable, dependable and you can get parts for it.
LIEBERMANN (voice-over): Many like this soviet bill 50 caliber machine gun appear to be Russian or Chinese firearms relics from previous wars that made their way into the hands of Hamas. Ubiquitous among many of the photos and videos, the Avtomat Kalashnikova, the AK-47, the preferred weapon for militant groups, capable of spewing automatic fire with horrific results.
The assault rifles, along with the grenades carried by Hamas militants, made them deadly when they reached Israeli towns and villages near Gaza.
LYONS: All they're trying to do is provide the shock effects, provide dependability, their weapons have to work, so they're very rudimentary. But based on their training, based on how they operate them, they are successful with them.
LIEBERMANN (voice-over): Hamas' main weapon has long been their supply of rockets from short range to long range. The terror attack on Saturday morning began with a barrage of rocket fire. Smoke screen for the imminent attack. Thousands of rockets overwhelmed Israel's Iron Dome air defense system, a tactic Hamas has refined over the years.
LYONS: That's the capability for the enemy, for Hamas, to fire them up against potentially commercial aircrafts. And that, I think, is one of the major issues of these terrorist groups, if they have those kinds of weapons in their hands.
LIEBERMANN (voice-over): Hamas used paragliders to cross the Gaza border. The recreational vehicles are barely maneuverable and easy to target in the air. But in the chaos of the moment, the plan worked. Some of the weapons and equipment were decidedly more low tech.
Israel built a complex underground barrier to stop tunnels from crossing the Gaza border, so Hamas used a bulldozer to tear down the above ground fence.
LYONS: They are just looking to create chaos with the kind of equipment they have, and the equipment has got to be reliable.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIEBERMANN (on camera): They also have some more capabilities that were not necessarily on display or on as great a display with the attack on Saturday morning, such as some anti-aircraft weaponry as well as anti-tank missiles, that could make a ground incursion a very difficult and deadly prospect, Michael.
HOLMES: Yes, much would have been kept back in reserve by a group like Hamas, one would imagine.
LIEBERMANN: Absolutely.
HOLMES: Yes. Oren, good to see you, my friend. Oren Liebermann there.
All right, now I want to take a look at the kind of fighting we could see if Israel does move forward with a ground invasion of Gaza. Joining me now is retired U.S. Army Major John Spencer, the Chair of Urban Warfare Studies at the Madison Policy Forum.
And thanks for being with us, sir. You know, I'm reminded the second battle for Fallujah in Iraq in 2004 was the bloodiest battle for American forces in the entire war. Urban, street to street, house to house. Gaza is bigger. There are many differences, of course, but what would a battle for Gaza City look like as a ground operation?
MAJ. JOHN SPENCER, U.S. ARMY (RET.): I think it would look a lot more destructive than the Second Battle of Fallujah, which had a lot of very unique features, namely that we had six months in preparation to position all the forces, empty the city of 90 percent of the civilians, and it still destroyed most of the city.
HOLMES: Yes.
[22:35:02]
SPENCER: I think the battle in Gaza City or other urban areas in Gaza would look more like the 2017 Battle of Mosul against ISIS. Just house to house military grade, vehicle borne IEDs and dumpsters and the destruction of every building block by block as the enemy whittles through like mouse holes of all the tunnels networks between the buildings to try to hold it as long as they can.
I mean, war is killing, war is destruction. But even with all the modern technologies of the today's world, in order to do an operation to clear it of enemy like ISIS, like Hamas from a city and take away their military capability, it's a very destructive and very costly to everybody.
HOLMES: So what then are the major challenges of such an environment? I covered Fallujah and I covered Mosul. Tell us what the major challenges are.
SPENCER: Many challenges that the defenders had time to prepare and no matter what, you have to move forward and basically wait until the defender shoots you. And that's the problem with the anti-tank guided munitions, the RPGs.
I mean, in that second battle of Fallujah, we lost six tanks in the opening hours just from the enemy's volley fire. It's called combat in hell because you have to like walk down the street and get punched in the face to find where the enemy is. And then once you find them, most of your weapons really challenged to punch through steel, concrete, reinforced, you know, concrete. So that's why you see much more use of artillery.
We were firing thousands of artillery rounds a day in all those operations. And that's, I think that's what we're going to see.
HOLMES: Yes.
SPENCER: Because the soldiers face almost insurmountable odds in a city, which is really military grade bunkers. And Hamas has this feature that we haven't seen in modern history, which is layers and layers of tunnels. Not just a tunnel connecting the house or here, I mean, very deep tunnel complex is this. Really, you have to go down or clear or have to deal with the fact that the enemy can escape all the bombing.
HOLMES: Tell us more about that. I mean, because there are marked advantages for the home force, if you like, the entrenched force. They know the turf. Tell us about those advantages and what tactics Hamas might employ.
SPENCER: Yes. So there are some disadvantages Hamas didn't have, like ISIS did with these layered obstacle belt outside the city.
HOLMES: Yes.
SPENCER: But inside the city, you can guarantee Hamas has prepared it in every type of guerrilla tactic that we've ever seen in urban warfare. Being able to move underneath one building, you call in fire and you don't get the enemy, he just moves to the next and you precisely, with precision guided munitions, destroy the whole block, trying to get a few enemy combatants inside there who can pop up behind you, in front of you, in the house you just cleared.
You know, it's really hard to do this operation because every direction you face, a potential bomb, house form bombs, vehicle bombs, underground bombs, but the tunnels are very unique because that's usually once you identify where the enemy is, then you can use precision guided munition or infantry or tanks to take them out.
But if you can move all throughout the city under those tunnels, they'll have planned for -- to attack you once pop up behind you, move to the next building and that's why it just takes so long. It took us nine months to pry, you know, less than 4,000 or 5,000 ISIS from the battle of Mosul.
HOLMES: Yes.
SPENCER: Nine months and a 100,000 troops.
HOLMES: Yes. Yes. I remember it well. I mean, how does the presence of hostages being there complicate Israel's options in a tactical sense?
SPENCER: Yes, in a tactical sense, it's like a paradox. The longer you wait, the less chance that the hostages might be alive. The faster you go, the more chance that the hostages will be used. Since Hamas uses human shields, you can guarantee they'll use them as hostage shields.
Put them inside the tunnels so you can't destroy the tunnels. Put them right in front of them. It causes a really -- that -- now that's a historical challenge that I don't remember from any of my studies in any other major battle like this, where you have really the industrial level, 100 hostages that could potentially be caught in the middle.
HOLMES: Yes, it's a great point. And you made a great point earlier too about Fallujah, where the Americans did get out. Virtually all the civilians, most of them, the vast majority, what -- there are going to be civilians in Gaza because a million people haven't left. What do you fear the next few days are going to look like? How bloody could it get?
SPENCER: I can get very bloody. And actually, again, it reminds me -- and I know you covered it, but Mosul, right --
HOLMES: Yes.
SPENCER: -- which is a city of 1.4 million. Initially, ISIS kept 750,000, 800,000 trapped in there. There were over 10,000 human or civilian casualties.
HAMMAN: Yes.
[22:40:05]
SPENCER: And let's be clear, the civilians never all leaves. Usually about 10 percent and 10 percent of 1 million is still a lot.
HOLMES: Yes. SPENCER: But the fact that Hamas is trapping them there, it could be extremely costly in in casualties, even if you abide by all the laws of war and do it very deliberately. That's the major humanitarian crisis and the cost to the city, right? This will destroy most of those cities.
HOLMES: It's a fascinating and important insight about what might be ahead in the next days and weeks. John Spencer, really appreciate your expertise. I know you were there in Iraq. You served a lot. Thanks so much. I appreciate it.
SPENCER: Thank you, Michael.
HOLMES: All Jewish communities around Europe are worried after a rise in anti-Semitic acts. Both the U.K. and France increasing their security. We'll have a live report from Melissa Bell in Paris when we come back.
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HOLMES: In Jordan, a top official is warning the Israeli actions in Gaza are causing a humanitarian disaster. The Jordanian Foreign Minister says the international community's failure to put an end to the war is a failure to uphold international law and does not protect innocent civilians or safeguard common human values.
Meanwhile, Doctors Without Borders is sharing its concern about people trying to evacuate and about water and supplies.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AVRIL BENOIT, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, DOCTORS WITHOUT BORDERS: It's just unreasonable to expect 1.1 million people to flee when mixed into that, you've got patients, you've got sick and injured people, you've got people with disabilities, you've got the elderly who may have mobility problems. Not everyone has been able to. It's just impossible to imagine that.
Those who have arrived in the South are reporting that there's a really serious shortage of water. So we're asking for clean drinking water at the very least to be assured for these thousands of people. We also see that there's a looming shortage of food and just about all the necessities of life.
The health care system is -- was always extremely fragile. We considered it a humanitarian chronic emergency over many, many years. And now it's a complete catastrophe. So with that shortage of water, the inability of people to get out, we're really beside ourselves, just calling for safe passage for people to go through that Rafah crossing and to be able to leave without prejudice, to be able to find safety. It's a under humanitarian law. They should be allowed to do so.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Now Jewish communities around Europe are on alert as there have been reports of increased anti-Semitic acts. French police say they have detained 65 people for dozens of anti-Semitic acts since the Israeli-Hamas conflict began. And the U.K. is increasing its security after an uptick in anti-Semitic activity there.
[22:45:11]
CNN's Melissa Bell has been following developments from Paris joins me now. Melissa, yes, you've been talking to European Jews about this rise in anti-Semitism. Bring us up to date.
MELISSA BELL, CNN PARIS CORRESPONDENT: Well, there had been fears, Michael, based on past experience for many of these communities here in Europe. When you look at what has been a fairly steady creeping rise in anti-Semitism over the course of the last 20 years, and I'm speaking here, Michael, of acts, but speech as well, as measured not least by the European Unions' commission. There has been always.
When you look at spikes in anti-Semitic acts and speech in Europe, there is a correlation with spikes in tension in the Middle East. So even as you saw tensions flare in the Middle East, the fear was that that would once again spread here to Europe and that is exactly what happened.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BELL (voice-over): Far from the front lines of the Israel-Hamas war, many European Jews say they're not just feeling the pain of what's happening there, but also fearing the potential ramifications much closer to home.
In France, at the Great Synagogue in Marseille, a prayer is held for the people of Israel. It's a fervent prayer after reports of anti- Semitic incidents in parts of Europe, after Hamas launched its assault on Israel more than a week ago and Israel's subsequent bombardment of Gaza.
MARC MEIMOUN, WORSHIPPER (through translator): First of all, it's important to be present whenever the Jewish people are in danger. Unfortunately, we're used to this kind of gathering, this kind of prayer. We're tired of it all. Nevertheless, we have to respond in unity.
BELL (voice-over): France is home to Europe's largest Jewish population, as well as the largest Muslim population in Western Europe. French President Emmanuel Macron has urged his citizens to remain united, though French police used water cannon and tear gas to break up a recent rally in support of the Palestinian people, which had been banned by French officials citing concerns about public order.
But there are fears of further unrest in France. 10,000 police officers have been deployed to protect synagogues and Jewish schools. And on Friday, France raised its security alert to the highest level after a knife attack at a school, the French interior minister says, was linked to the conflict between Israel and Hamas. The U.K. is also stepping up security after reports of increased anti- Semitic incidents. The Community Security Trust, a British non-profit organization that monitors anti-Semitism, says the number of incidents reported to them in the past week has increased by more than 300 percent compared to the same period last year.
Tensions at times spilling out onto the streets of London where flyers of Israelis reportedly kidnapped by Hamas were torn down.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is for Palestine.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They're not mutually exclusive, it's children. It's children, it's innocent people.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, what about the children in Palestine?
BELL (voice-over): Germany meanwhile says it has a zero tolerance policy towards anti-Semitic acts and will ban all activities supporting Hamas, which is on the E.U.'s list of terror groups. German officials say they can do no less.
FRANK-WALTER STEINMEIER, GERMAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Protecting Jewish life in Germany is part of the identity of our democracy. The security of Jews in Germany is our democracy at its core. Only if our Jewish citizens live in peace and security can our country as a whole do so.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BELL: But for all the precautions being taken here in Europe, Michael, events in the Middle East are here very keenly felt. As I said a moment ago, every time there's an uptick in violence. And of course, beyond that dreadful killing of a teacher in northern France on Friday, we've also seen a very tangible proof that there is something more in terms of tension.
We've seen it not just in the band gathering in favor of Palestinians on Thursday here in France. Another one here today, Michael, at which 19 people were arrested and the Louvre and Versailles were evacuated as well because of bomb threats. Michael?
HOLMES: Yes, worrying times. Melissa, thank you. Melissa Bell there early in the morning in Paris for us.
Still to come here on the program, a music festival where thousands had gathered turned into a frenzy massacre. As Hamas launched its surprise attack, CNN visits the site of the deadly attack when we come back.
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[22:51:35]
FOSTER: All right, we are going to take a look back at one of the most horrific aspects of the Hamas attack last weekend. It is the story of what happened at the Nova Music Festival, where 260 innocent people were murdered.
Anderson Cooper has this extremely disturbing walk through the festival site. We do warn you, the story might be difficult to watch.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): The music was playing, the dance floor packed when the rockets began. Just 3.3 miles from the border with Gaza, it didn't take long before Hamas gunmen arrived. Some party goers were able to get to their cars but many were killed before they could get away.
REAR ADM. DANIEL HAGARI, ISRAEL DEFENSE FORCES: They were waiting here with a machine gun.
COOPER (voice-over): Rear Admiral Daniel Hagari, a soldier all his life, has never seen anything like it.
HAGARI: This is a massacre scene. I don't have any other recall of memory in the history of Israel since it was established for this kind of event.
COOPER (voice-over): The bodies and body parts of the dead have been removed but people's possessions are strewn all around. The carnage is clear, burned out cars, bullet holes, blood stains on seats.
From some cars, the IDF has retrieved dash cam videos that show Hamas gunmen roaming the site for hours, shooting freely. This one shows a bloodied hostage being led away. Then under the car you can see another man hiding. He moves slightly, then stops. A gunman runs right up to him and shoots him point blank in the head or upper body.
HAGARI: I don't know how people can explain this. I don't have the words to explain it, and then running away with -- on motorcycles with girls to Gaza.
COOPER (voice-over): Fleeing east across open fields was the only way out for many, but they were easy targets. Others sought safety in nearby bomb shelters. This is dash cam video of a Hamas gunman tossing a grenade into a shelter. When a man runs out trying to escape, they fire on him repeatedly.
In another shelter a few miles north of the festival site, about 30 people tried to hide. A man named Noam Cohen recorded inside. You can hear the panic in their voices asking what's going on. Are there Israeli soldiers nearby?
We aren't going to show you what happened next. Cohen says Hamas gunmen repeatedly toss grenades into the shelter. People inside were blown apart. It's one of the most gruesome videos we've ever seen.
This is some of the aftermath. Noam Cohen survived hiding under body parts. That's him terrified but alive. We found the shelter in the town of Alumim (ph) yesterday evening. Someone had put a curtain up over the doorway, but nothing could hide the smell as you enter.
My cameraman, Neil Hallsworth, who's experienced a lot of war, began to retch and had to step outside.
(on-camera): There's bloody hand prints on the wall. There's blood smeared on the walls. See, probably these are either bullet holes or from the grenades that were thrown in here.
[22:55:08]
Body parts have already been collected from here, but blood soaks clothes and shoes remain. This looks to be a bloody handprints. The shelter is no more than 15 feet long, maybe 5.5, 6 feet wide. The idea of so many people packed in here, standing shoulder to shoulder terrified screaming, it's incredible that anybody was able to survive.
(voice-over): There are other shelters like this, other tragedies still to be discovered. The full horror of what happened here is just starting to come to light.
Anderson Cooper, Alumim (ph), Israel.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: The effects of the Hamas-Israel conflict can be felt throughout the world of course. On Saturday, players and fans taking a moment to remember the victims at a U.S. versus Germany men's football match in the U.S.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please join us in a moment of silence to mourn the lives lost in the horrific terrorist attack on the Israeli people one week ago today, and to recognize the ongoing suffering of innocent civilians.
All of us at U.S. Soccer, the German Football Association, and the global soccer community join together in our hope for lasting peace in the Middle East and around the world. The moment of silence will begin and end on the referee's whistle.
(WHISTLE)
Thank you.
(APPLAUSE)
Fans, please rise and remove your hats for the playing of the National Anthem.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Thanks for spending part of your day with me. I'm Michael Holmes. I will be back with more coverage of our breaking news right after the break.
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