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Israel at War; Blinken Promises Rafah Crossing Will Eventually Open; New Poll: Most Americans See Israeli Response To Hamas Attacks As Justified. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired October 15, 2023 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:01:16]

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: Hi, everyone. Thanks for joining us again. I'm Dana Bash in Washington.

SARA SIDNER, CNN HOST: And I'm Sara Sidner in Tel Aviv with CNN's breaking news coverage of Israel at war.

A complete catastrophe, that is how one official is describing conditions in Gaza today. The situation there is becoming more dire by the minute as tens of thousands of innocent civilians are fleeing their homes in response to the barrage of attacks from Israel from the sky.

Gaza is running out of food and clean drinking water after being cut off by Israel. Today, Israel claims to have turned the water back on in southern Gaza, but Palestinians say they cannot confirm the supply due to lack of electricity at the water stations.

Israel is now working on setting up a humanitarian safe zone in southern Gaza so that when the evacuees get there, they will have access to food, water and any other assistance that they might need.

BASH: Antony Blinken says that the Rafah crossing in the south of Gaza will be open later today. We've seen a surge of people trying to get out of Gaza at that crossing in the last few days. It is the only border point out of Gaza that is not controlled by Israel.

Tony Blinken met with Egyptian leaders this morning to discuss sending relief into the corridor and letting Americans out.

Israel's president says they are preparing for a ground operation. The plan is to uproot Hamas' infrastructure of terror and, quote, "get the mob out". This is what the Israeli president told our Wolf Blitzer when they spoke just moments ago.

They talked about that ground incursion and also Hezbollah sending rockets from Lebanon in the north of Israel. When asked about what Israel was doing to bring the more than 100 hostages home, this is what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ISAAC HERZOG, ISRAELI PRESIDENT: So let first understand what type of hostages. Who are these hostages -- babies, pregnant women, elderly people with dementia, even with their caretakers, families, innocent civilians from 36 nations. People were killed or abducted from 36 nations. Ok.

There is Natalie from Chicago who came with her mother to spend the weekend of a holiday in Nahal Oz a kibbutz on the border. And incidentally a kibbutz advocating peace all throughout its history. And she's there in Gaza. Nobody knows her whereabouts.

And so many other Americans and so many other people. And this living in not knowing what their whereabouts is hell. Actually this paradise place turned into hell.

And it is our obligation to move it from being hell to back to being paradise. And part of it is to bring back the hostages immediately with no conditions back to Israel.

There is incidentally a big international effort on that respect. And I must say that the American administration and President Biden has been incredibly supportive and we are utterly grateful to him, the American nation, and all our friends and supporters throughout the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:05:00]

SIDNER: There are so many things happening on so many different fronts here, Dana. In Israel people are terrified about what is to come because rockets keep coming over. And of course, in Gaza, you have a similar feeling where airstrikes have been happening but the ground offensive is a whole different thing. It is going to be I think the likes of something we have never seen before.

Meantime Israel is also exchanging fire along its northern border with Hezbollah. The militant group sent several rockets across the border this morning and the IDF quickly responded with its own strikes targeting Hezbollah's military infrastructure.

CNN's Ben Wedeman is joining us now again from southern Lebanon. You've been there for a couple of days now. Anything new that you are learning at this hour? I know that it is getting late and very dark there.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, what we've seen Sara, is that over the last two days, there has been a dramatic increase in the amount of cross-border fire between Hezbollah and Israel. Not only Hezbollah, but also the military wing of Hamas, its men based here in south Lebanon.

Now throughout the day, it seemed that Hamas was striking targets on the Israeli side with a real focus on it seems surveillance and communications and observation positions. They also obviously hit some communities as well according to the Israeli medical authorities. One Israeli man 40 years old was killed and several others were injured in one of those strikes.

Now in the afternoon, there was a volley of rockets fired into Israel, but it turns out that was not Hezbollah. It was Hamas' military wing. Now, those rockets were intercepted by the Iron Dome System.

But as a result of all of this cross-border fire, a four-kilometer- deep closed military zone has been declared on the Israeli side of the border.

Also struck was the headquarters of the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon, otherwise known UNIFIL which has been here for decades. I spoke to the spokesman of UNIFIL. He told me that one rocket landed next to the helipad of headquarters.

There were no injuries and they are still trying to figure out where that rocket was fired from, Sara.

SIDNER: Ben Wedeman, thank you so much for all your reporting there. You've been in this region for decades. And I know you know it like the back of your hand.

All right. Secretary of State Antony Blinken is extending his Middle Eastern tour and will return to Israel on Monday. Unprecedented, really.

He met with the Egyptian president Abdel Fattah El-Sisi today to ensure Americans will be able to cross the Fafah border out of Gaza. That is Gaza's southern border. And to ensure international aid can get into Gaza which is desperate at this hour.

CNN's Zachary Cohen is joining me now. Zachary, Blinken spoke with reporters this morning before departing to Egypt. What did he say?

ZACHARY COHEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: In addition to promising that this key border crossing will be open, Blinken emerged from his meeting with the Egyptian president saying that the two countries shared the same goals of both preventing an escalation in this conflict and also making sure that aid gets to civilians inside Gaza.

Now, that's been a theme -- takeaway from all of Blinken's meetings with these various regional leaders. Since he's left Israel, he plans to go back to Israel after he finishes his last round of trips.

But it was interesting because Blinken while he reaffirmed the U.S. support for Israel after this meeting with the Egyptian president, he also had sort of an interesting message for the Israels about how they carry out this next phase of the war. Take a listen to what he said today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: The way that Israel does this, matters. Needs to do it in a way that affirms the shared values that we have for human life and human dignity. Taking every possible precaution to avoid harming civilians. (END VIDEO CLIP)

COHEN: So while Blinken obviously, you know, again reaffirmed U.S. support for Israel, maybe a word of caution or an urging of restraints there from the Secretary of State.

SIDNER: Thank you for that.

John Kirby has also talked this morning about the U.S. plan to get the American hostages out of Gaza. I mean, this is a very tricky and intricate situation not just for the American hostages, but for all of the hostages that have been taken into Gaza.

At this point nobody has heard anything, none of the families have heard anything about their loved ones. There is a lot of concern here in Israel and I know in other countries where people are from. What is the plan right now?

[14:10:00]

COHEN: Absolutely. The focus of the administration seems to be on trying to talk with these third-party countries and see if they can figure out a way to at least identify and rescue some of these hostages that have been taken.

But John Kirby today interestingly did not rule out a scenario where there could be American boots on the ground if the opportunity was right to rescue some of the hostages.

Take a listen to what he said earlier today when pressed on the issue of hostages.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KIRBY, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL COORDINATOR: There is no plans or intentions to put U.S. troops on the ground to fight in this fight between Israel and Hamas.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To save Americans?

KIRBY: We are actively trying find out exactly where they are. I mean Shannon, we don't even know how many exactly. A small handful we know, but there could be more than we know.

What I won't do is rule anything in or out when it comes to getting our hostages home. We're working on this literally by the hour.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COHEN: So you see the full weight of American diplomacy and, you know, the military effort with the two carrier groups going into the region focused on this issue abroad.

But FBI director Christopher Wray also talking at a reference with police commissioners in San Diego today. He's acknowledging that they have seen an uptick in threats since the attack by Hamas, you know. And he is warning these police commissioners that they should be vigilant looking for any sign that a lone actor could want to draw inspiration from and carry out a similar act of violence here in the United States.

So the administration is really both focused broad and here at home in the aftermath of this Hamas attack.

SIDNER: Zachary Cohen, with all those details for us. I appreciate you. Dana back to you in Washington.

BASH: Thank you so much, Sara.

And joining me now is CNN senior national security analyst Juliette Kayyem and columnist for the "Washington Post" Josh Rogin. Thank you both for being here.

I think -- I only see Juliette.

I will start with you Juliette about what we just heard from John Kirby. And the notion of not ruling out putting U.S. troop on the ground to get American hostages out. I think it is important to just underscore the other part of what he said, which is the U.S. doesn't apparently even know how many.

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: No.

BASH: And we have no indication that the U.S. or Israel knows where any of them is right now.

KAYYEM: Right. That's exactly right. I mean people's talks are so very focused on extracting the U.S. hostages or any hostages for that matter. To extract the hostages requires you know where they are. And given the fact -- let me just put it clearly.

I am conceding that there is a lot going on that neither you or I know. But chances are we do not know where a lot of the hostages are. And so therefore you can't even plant a mission to extract them, but it is possible that conversations are going on and which maybe we can get some if not all of these U.S. hostages.

I think that the second thing that is working against us and working against the hostages is that it is absolutely clear now that Israeli intelligence was not as sophisticated or as strong as we had thought. They were clearly surprised by this attack or did not take into account some of the intelligence that they may have been getting from foreign governments including us about the potential for a big attack.

So we have this idea that sort of Israel always knows what is going on or knows what it is doing but in fact we have evidence that suggests otherwise.

BASH: Yes, we do. Very brutal and horrible evidence.

KAYYEM: Yes.

BASH: Josh, we have you here now. You are extremely well sourced everywhere. But in this particular instance, I want to ask you about what you are hearing about the Secretary of State and how his subtle diplomacy is going in the region. He's been -- he, of course, started in Israel but then he has been in several Arab countries including Egypt. This morning he's going back to Israel.

What are you learning about how successful his tour has been? He has a lot of different goals but let me start with one which is getting the Palestinian civilians -- giving them safe passage out of Gaza before the ground war starts.

JOSH ROGIN, COLUMNIST, "WASHINGTON POST": Right. So Dana, as you mentioned, there is a lot of things going on at one time and Antony Blinken has been dealing with all of them and they all are centered in different places.

When he was in Qatar, that was mostly focused on figuring out how to get message to Hamas to get up to 15 U.S. hostages released by Hamas. That is 15 missing Americans. Not all of them may be hostages but the Qataris are probably the best situated to work on that problem.

The Egyptians are working on the problem of getting 500 to 600 Palestinian Americans out of Gaza.

[14:15:00]

ROGIN: And there was this crazy story from yesterday where they thought they had an agreement with the Egyptians, Blinken and his team, while he was there and there was window for five hours where American citizens were told to go to the Rafah crossing and then couldn't get through the crossing.

And if you saw Jake Sullivan's interview with Jake Tapper this morning "STATE OF THE UNION", he blamed it on Hamas. The Egyptians are blaming it on the Israelis because it is tied to the issue that you raised which is how to get Palestinians out and how to get aid in.

So without security you can't have humanitarian aid in and without humanitarian aid in, you can't get people out. So this is kind of like four-dimensional chess that Blinken is playing and he's got to fly to different places do it.

I don't think you need secret sources, Dana, frankly to know that he hasn't succeeded because if he would have succeeded, we would have heard about it. He would have said something. You will see the action on the ground.

So you don't need to read the tea leaves here. None of these problems are solved but he is working on all of them all at once.

BASH: Incredibly difficult. And Juliette, you just heard Josh talking about this difficult mission that Tony Blinken is on right now. One of the things that we've heard from not only Israelis but from leaders from Hamas is telling Palestinian civilians not to leave.

And so we've heard it with our own ears that the mixed messages that these civilians who are just trying to make sure that their families live another day are getting both from their leaders quote/unquote in the Palestinian -- in Gaza I should say and then of course Israelis saying get out because we're going to -- we want you to be in a safe area.

KAYYEM: Yes, and for the Palestinians, obviously the innocent Palestinians, neither party, the Israelis or Hamas, are very reliable to them even though the Israeli messages is exactly correct at this stage.

This is the challenge for Blinken that Josh was talking about, that he is in Israel and this is true of the secretary of defense too, our full support of what Israel -- what Israel encountered and Israel specifically.

And then you travel to the Arab countries or Secretary Austin got on "60 Minutes" and begin to temper that and say essentially because of what is likely to happen to the Palestinians if they are not able to get out or to evacuate, there is some tempering going on.

So you hear Secretary Blinken sort of with both messages and in different places because of course what you don't want is you do not want Hamas to have a second narrative. Which is not only -- their first narrative which is they want to get rid of Israel which was last Saturday. But the second of course that they are willing to kill innocent Palestinians. And that is the kind of country they are.

So they are dealing with a very difficult situation. Everyone is aware it is a humanitarian crisis. No one is behaving well for the Palestinians. I only half buy the Egyptian excuse of blaming Hamas in terms of Palestinians getting out and Blinken has to sort of try to thread a very, very narrow needle.

BASH: No question.

Josh, what else are you hearing and what is the most important focus we should have right now as we watch suspended animation in many ways?

ROGIN: Sure. I think there are some signs that pressure from the United States is having some impact on Israeli decision making. The decision to turn back on the water for south Gaza apparently was made in a phone call between President Biden and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. So that just goes to show you that the U.S. government is working on these things behind the scenes.

But they don't like to talk about it in public because they don't think it is helpful. I think the most important thing that we'll get right now is that is that northern border.

We have a second U.S. aircraft carrier headed to the Eastern Mediterranean, The Dwight D. Eisenhower. That is a lot of U.S. fire power and that is meant to deter Hezbollah from joining this fight and Syria and Iran and western (INAUDIBLE) as well.

And if that happens, all bets are off. It will make the current war in Gaza look like only the beginning. And let's hope that that all can be avoided. BASH: Well, Sara was reporting with -- we had Ben Wedeman on just a

few minutes ago, and there certainly are some skirmishes, people have died, but nothing along the lines of what Hezbollah is capable of.

ROGIN: Exactly.

BASH: And yes, let's hope that they are heeding that call in southern Lebanon.

Juliette and Josh, thank you so much for your expertise. Appreciate it.

[14:20:00]

BASH: And still ahead, as we were just talking about, there is a lot of frustration and it is growing stronger at the Egypt/Gaza border. Americans are trying to flee at the Rafah crossing. The U.S. says Hamas has been stopping them from leaving Gaza even though Egypt claims that the citizens can leave. We're going to talk more about that quite historic (INAUDIBLE) next.

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BASH: Right now, the U.S. is moving a second carrier strike group into the Middle East, into that area into the mediterranean. And the presence now of two of the U.S. Navy's most powerful warships is meant, of course, to send a message generally in the region, but most specifically to Iran and its proxies, do not get involved.

There is no guarantee about what happens with the U.S. troops though in the near future.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TOM COTTON (R-AR): We have specially trained warriors whose main mission is to rescue American hostages wherever they may be. Of course, those decisions have to be made based on the intelligence and the facts on the ground but it should never be ruled out that American soldiers will save American lives.

[14:25:00]

COTTON: This is the worst attack on Jews since the Holocaust but it's also one of the worst terrorist attacks on the American people in recent times as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Joining me now is military analyst general Wesley Clark. So General, first I'm going to -- want to talk to you about what is going on at the border, but before that, can you just talk about the significance of these two very important U.S. Naval carriers going into the region and what is this meant to do?

GEN. WESLEY CLARK, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Sure. Those two aircraft carriers and the flotillas that go with them. They've got about 20 ships there. They've got tremendous capacity for not only the aircraft on each aircraft carrier, but the escorts and what they can do in the way of tomahawk missiles and other things.

And so they are there as a warning, they are there as a deterrent to Iran. It is "keep your hands off, stay out of it, or else". Because the general thinking is that Hezbollah is not going to go in of course without Iran saying go ahead. This ties Iran directly into the assault.

So on the other hand you can be sure that Iran is watching this. They are calculating. They're wondering whether the Israelis are going to get so bogged down in Gaza, be so tarnished in world opinion that they could justify releasing Hezbollah and go for the finish of Israel.

There is going to be that kind of thinking going on in Tehran. Those two aircraft carriers are really important to stop that kind of thought.

BASH: And I just want to underscore, you say it is a deterrent. We have definitely heard some this morning in interviews not ruling out the notion of U.S. troops being involved.

I think it is important to put that into context. And it certainly does not seem as though the U.S. is going to get involved in a very active way with U.S. troops in this conflict.

The discussion is about how to get American hostages out and American civilian out, but mostly the American hostages at this point.

CLARK: Yes, that's right. And I'm sure that we have a joint plan going on right now with the Israelis if we could locate the hostages, if it's possible to put in an extraction mission, sure we would work with the Israelis to do that.

But there is also the possibility of those U.S. forces in the north actually having to engage should Hezbollah decide to launch its 150,000 rockets against Israel. And Iran should be under no illusion, those ships are not just there for show. Those ships are ready to go and on the president's order, they could go. So as President Biden said, we're 100 percent committed to Israel. We're not going to allow the destruction of Israel.

BASH: I really want to get your perspective on what is happening inside Gaza. And the idea that according to the White House Hamas, they're the ones that stopped Americans from getting into Egypt via the Rafah border crossing. We're talking about Palestinians. We're talking about -- excuse me, we're talking in this case about Americans who are inside Gaza. These are civilians.

What does it tell you, first of all, that that crossing was closed and what is your sense of why this really happened? And we're showing our viewers a map of the area we're talking about now.

CLARK: Well Dana, I think, you know, Hamas always looked at this as at least a two-phased operation. First is provoke the Israelis, do as much damage as you can. Show how powerful you are, then fall back into Gaza and use the civilian population as a shield. And then attack Israel on the stage of world opinion and cause Israel to look like an evil force that is anti-humanitarian.

And what is happening right now is that Hamas is losing the second phase already before the fighting has even started because the people there are getting out of the way.

Hamas may be trying to keep them in position, but Hamas is failing to do that. They are evacuating the northern area despite Hamas' road blocks, a big explosion we saw yesterday. I'd be very surprised if that was an Israeli explosion on a main evacuation route. That looks like something engineered by Hamas to intimidate its own people.

Their view is that those people are -- they're just human shields, they are collateral. They don't care about those people. What they're interested in is the destruction of Israel.

And so the poor people in Gaza, as President Biden said, they are not all Hamas. There are really innocent people in there. They need to be protected too and the United States and Israel are doing the best they can to do that.

CLARK: At the same time Hamas needs to be eliminated and that is what the Israeli objective is going to be eventually. But in this phase, it is already under way. Hamas is losing control of the population. And that is a huge loss for Hamas.

[14:30:10]

BASH: Just to underscore, we're out of time, but just to underscore what you said, that Hamas which is supposed to be the leadership of Gaza is trying to prevent innocent civilians from getting out of harm's way, getting out of a warzone because they think that it helps them in the propaganda war. It's really important to talk about the difference there.

General Wesley Clark, thank you so much. Appreciate you coming on.

And still to come, as Israel prepares for the, quote, next stages of war, we're going to hear from an Israeli American who traveled from Chicago after last Saturday's attack to serve on the front lines.

Stay with us.

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[14:35:05]

SIDNER: Right now, a ground offensive could be imminent. Israel says it has prepared for a new phase of the war.

Today, U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken promised that the Rafah crossing will open providing a possible opportunity for evacuating civilians in Gaza before that Israeli ground invasion. Still unknown when that invasion will actually happen. And if enough Palestinian civilians who want to get out will be able to, a place where about 50 percent of the population is under the age of 18, children.

And even with no ground invasion yet, the airstrikes have been crushing. Survivors are reeling. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We are in Deir al-Balah in Sheik Daoud (ph). Today, witnessing strikes using F-16 without prior warning. We were running and found the house on fire and charred. There were people alive and we rescued them quickly, but there were people still under the rubble.

Until now, there are three families under this house. A large number were martyred and there remain as large number, but martyrs under the rubble.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): God willing they are all in heaven. All my family will be in heaven. They gave their life for Jerusalem, for Palestinian, for Palestinian. They were all women, all children, children, children, children.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: Really difficult to hear.

I do want to tell you in the last few seconds while that was going, we heard two massive booms. Those booms sound exactly like what airstrikes sound like in Gaza. We have not had any air raid sirens here, so that is likely what it is. But here on this side of the border, in Israel, this morning, I spoke to IDF army reservist who is from Chicago, he flew into Israel after the surprise attack to serve on the frontlines.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SGT. ANDREW SILBERMAN, IDF RESERVIST FROM CHICAGO: I woke up in Chicago to the news of what had happened, I actually learned early that morning that my partner from the army, from my service, had been killed in battle. And I think all the real message coming for all Israelis and all Jews worldwide is that every Jew is connected to each other somehow. And so while, you know, there are many people around the world, many Jews around the world that may not specifically know people that were killed like me, it struck everyone to their core. And everyone has a responsibility in them to do as much as they can in order to make sure that this can never happen again.

What we saw Saturday morning was the closest thing to the holocaust that we've seen in 80 years. And so like I said, this is the closest thing to the holocaust we've seen in 80 years. And that slogan of never again, it wasn't a suggestion. It's something that we intend to act on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: And you are seeing a lot of people coming in from other parts of the country who have served before in the army and are back because they want to fight for Israel.

Let's talk more now with Aaron David Miller. He's a former Middle East negotiator at the State Department and is now a senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

I know you know this region like the back of your hand, David, and had been watching everything as it has been going on. Time right now is of the essence when it comes to the civilians in Gaza to try to get to safety. They have been told by Israel to evacuate. The U.N. says that is impossible to evacuate one million plus people, half of the population of the very densely populated area.

What do you know about the Israeli military ground offensive at this point in time? Do you have any sense that we're getting closer to a possible ground incursion?

AARON DAVID MILLER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIR ANALYST: There have been two factors -- well, actually three factors, maybe four, that influence Israeli thinking. One is the issue of hostages. It's a cruel dilemma for the Israelis. Their commitment to figuring out a way to eradicate Hamas at least in a military capacity in the wake of the October 7 terror outrage.

And then you have the problem of civilians, 1.1 million in Gaza City. You can't evacuate 1.1 million people in 24 days in seamless organized way, let alone 24 hours. And then you have the weather, Sara, which is always not recognized barely by the media, but a critical factor in terms of cloud cover would retard Israeli operations.

And then you have the final issue of decisiveness. What is the objective, and I'm sure there's been extraordinary debate within the war cabinet over how extensive, how broad, how deep, what the objective is.

[14:40:02]

But I suspect because of what happened on October 7th, all these other constraints are going to fade away. The Israelis I think are faced with a monumental challenge in terms of why they need to do this. In large part because the government's responsibility to protect their citizenry is critically important. And what happened on October 7 not only is an intelligence failure, it's a failure of confidence, a crisis of confidence in the capacity of the government of Israel to protect its citizens.

I think many Israelis feel that now. And so, it's coming I would think within days.

SIDNER: You know, I'm curious because you talk about coming in days, a lot of people were looking at the timing of telling the residents of Gaza to evacuate within 24 hours. That was Thursday. We are now at Sunday.

And so, we're marching ever closer, but Secretary of State Antony Blinken is back in the region. And so, do you think that that will have any kind of a decision for Israel to make that when the U.S. officials are here, would they go forward with an incursion like this or would they wait to see if negotiations for example for trying to get some of the Palestinians out of Gaza, would they wait for that and hold off on a ground invasion?

MILLER: I mean, look, Sara, Antony Blinken, I realize the optics of the Israelis launching a major ground campaign in Gaza with the secretary of state in Israel, still in the region. So, but whether it's 24 hours, Sara, 48 hours, whether it's by next week, the fact is that it's coming.

And I think it's -- we've been in a long dark tunnels since October 7, and we've got a long way to go before we emerge. And let's hope somehow with respect to the day after that in fact like many crises in this region involving an extraordinary amount of pain in large measure to civilians, let's hope by the end when we emerge that there will be some opportunity, some prospect for turning that extraordinary amount of pain into gain, because there is going to be an end.

Israelis and Palestinians will still grapple with the basic proximity problem. Their past, their presents and their futures are inextricably linked together. Neither side is going anywhere and there is no military solution to this problem. There may in fact be a military solution to the issue of addressing Hamas' military capacity in Gaza. Broader Israelis and Palestinians remain, and Israelis and Palestinians and their troops remain I would hope sooner than that will have to grapple with it.

SIDNER: Yeah. And Hamas, by the way, as you know, isn't the only group in Gaza that targets Israel. You've got Islamic jihad there as well. But a much smaller group and they are certainly not in any power position in Gaza.

Aaron David Miller, thank you so much for your insight. It is always very, very good.

Now, we are getting a sense of how Americans feel about the war in Israel, and the response to Hamas' attacks. Up next, we'll discuss what they think of President Biden's handling of the situation and what the U.S. needs to do on their end. That's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:47:46]

BASH: A new CNN poll released today gives a read on how Americans are feeling about what is going on in Israel. Overall, most see Israel's military response to the attacks as justified. But the crisis, which is ongoing, is sparking debate among Republican presidential candidates in the U.S. this morning in an interview on "STATE OF THE UNION" with Jake Tapper, Nikki Haley responded to Ron DeSantis commanding on the fact that he believes that the U.S. should not accept refugees from Gaza.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) NIKKI HALEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You have to realize that whether we're talking about Gazans and Palestinians, you know, all of them don't -- you've got half of them at the time that I was there didn't want to be under Hamas' rule. They didn't want to have terrorists overseeing them. They knew that they were living a terrible life because of Hamas.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Let's talk about all this with Republican strategist Doug Heye.

Doug, thank you so much for being with here.

DOUG HEYE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Thank you.

BASH: Just going back to this new CNN poll out this morning, it is really striking to me that right now there is such overwhelming support for Israel and for what Israel is doing. And I think that we can put on the screen some -- some of the numbers that we're talking about here.

We have you see that it says Israel's government's military response to Hamas is fully justified at 50 percent. Given the divide in America, maybe it is not surprising or it is surprising that it is only 50 percent. But 20 percent partially justified. 8 percent not justified at all, and 21 percent not sure.

Just knowing what you know about kind of the American electorate, what does it tell you about the fact that half say that what Israel is doing is justified in their response to this terror attack on their soil?

HEYE: Well, if I'm a Republican candidate or frankly a member of the Israeli government, I look at the number is 70 percent backing what Israel is doing right now, backing their --

BASH: And we have that. Let's put that up.

[14:50:02]

Keep going, Doug.

HEYE: And that's significant because it tells us that the American people at this point are firmly behind Israel. They've seen the atrocities in this terrorist attack and they expect and support Israel responding to this.

Now, what we don't know is as this progresses, will those numbers hold? But right now, this is exactly where Israel should want to be. And for Republican candidates, I think they should be mindful that this is a moment to lead, whether you're Ron DeSantis or Nikki Haley, you're going to have different opinions, that's fine. Remember, though, that one person has stood out pretty strongly in this and that's Donald Trump with his rhetoric specifically targeting Benjamin Netanyahu and the Israeli government. This nomination doesn't go through Ron DeSantis or Nikki Haley, it

goes through Donald Trump. This is your time to lead and take him on on foreign policy where Trump did have some successes as president.

BASH: Yeah, and just so you know, we are putting up what you were just referring to. This to me is maybe the most striking of the numbers that we saw out of CNN's poll this morning and the question is whether or not the -- that sentiment is going to stay where it is. It is very, very tricky and we've seen things shift when it comes to a public sentiment very quickly in the past.

I want to -- because I have you here, we cannot forget the fact that in America, there is no House speaker and you worked in the House leadership, Republican leadership, for several years, you are still in touch with people who are there. At this moment, there is a nominee and that is Jim Jordan of Ohio, and the question going into this week is whether or not he is going to suffer the same fate as Steve Scalise, which is being elected by his fellow Republicans, but not being able to get a majority vote on the House floor, which is what one needs to be speaker of the house. What are you hearing?

HEYE: Well, I just saw about 30 minutes ago Jim Jordan tweeted out that what unites us as Republicans, we're much closer than where we are with Democrats. You know, Dana, how many times did you hear Eric Cantor or John Boehner say that very same thing when a group of congressional Republicans often led or partially led by Jim Jordan said actually we're still too divided in our own party.

Jordan is trying to run as a uniter right now. It's a different tact and a different tone from him. Clearly, he's got a majority of the majority, but he is still far short of where he needs to be to get to 218 on the floor.

What you usually do in House leadership is you don't take anything to the floor unless you know that you've got the votes to win, whether that's a vote on a rule or a vote on a bill or certainly a vote on the speaker. Jordan would be testing that, but very clearly he wants to call out members and see who is on which side. One thing you know very well because you interview these people every day is we often hear this is the time when House moderates and Republican moderates are going to start flexing their muscles.

And then we learn that Republican moderates not only can't flex their muscles, they don't know where the gym is. This is going to be a gut check moment for them. Are they going to stand behind what they said or support Jim Jordan as speaker?

I would tell you taking this to the floor and losing would put House Republicans in an even worse situation than they are in now, if that's possible.

BASH: And gym, g-y-m, not Jim, j-i-m. I know what you're referring to.

Doug. Unfortunately, we are out of town, but I just obviously want to note that these two issues are very much related what is happening in Israel and the paralysis in the House of representatives because they can't do anything when it comes to what Israel is asking for, even just a resolution without a speaker of the House.

HEYE: And, Dana, that's the point. These aren't parlor games within a Republican conference or House caucus, there are real implications here.

BASH: Yeah, well-said. Doug, thank you so much for being here.

We're going to check back in with CNN's Sara Sidner in Tel Aviv in a moment. We're going to be right back.

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[14:56:25]

BASH: And we continue to follow developments out of the Middle East as we are seeing the death toll rise as Israel continues to respond to the terror attack that Hamas conducted eight years ago -- excuse me, eight days ago inside of Israel. We are going to talk to Sara Sidner in just a moment. We are going to take a quick break. Don't go anywhere.

Oh, forgive me. This is live television and we have a correspondent and anchor in a war zone, so thank you to the audience for bearing with us.

Sara, I'm glad that we have you back because I really wanted to talk to you on TV what you and I have talked about offline, which is you were reporting and anchoring about this for nearly a week in the studio in New York and now, you are actually there, and the difference that you feel as a reporter actually being on the ground.

SIDNER: Yeah, I think there is a couple of things. Because I used to live in Jerusalem and work for CNN back in 2012 and '13, and because I, you know, was in New York before this covering this incursion, this surprise attack from Hamas and then the declaration of war back in the studio, I'm sort having -- I'm of two minds because in the studio you feel completely helpless to sort of watch what's happening and not be able to talk to people and console people and let them tell their stories in a way that is very personal. It is a little less personal when it's a Zoom call and when, you know, you're doing things from afar.

When you show up here you get the real sense of what it feels like, which is hard to share with an audience who is watching this on a screen, and you get a sense of what the place really is like on a regular basis because usually war happens in pockets, right? It happens -- there are, you know, air strikes in Gaza, there are missiles coming over in one part of Israel but the rest of Israel is not experiencing that same thing.

And what I noticed here is just having that contact with people and being able to, you know, hug someone, hold someone's hand, talk through it, those members who have family members who have hostages that are in Gaza, you feel like you are at least making a different kind of connection than when you are separated. Really, I mean, helpless is the word, I think, that came to my mind.

Helpless not being able to be, for example, in Gaza to try and understand and talk to people there, where you are at least sharing the story of those going through this trauma, but being here is very different and I will tell you that it is so quiet here, it is eerily quiet, this is not normal. Tel Aviv is usually a bustling fun place, Dana.

BASH: Yeah, it sure is. Thank you so much for that important perspective, Sara. Sara and I will both be back to talk about this and much more in a minute.

Stay with us.

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