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Rising Humanitarian Catastrophe In Gaza Amid Israeli Airstrikes And Blockade; IDF Says 155 Hostages Being Held By Hamas; Netanyahu's Leadership Questioned Amidst Israeli Crisis; Historical Examples Highlight Democracies' Hidden Strength; Survivor's Tale: Nova Festival Attack And Return To IDF; Kibbutz Hero: 72-Year-Old Fights Off Hamas Attack; Army Delay Sparks Criticism Amidst Hamas Onslaught. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired October 15, 2023 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:02]

SARA SIDNER, CNN HOST: You're speaking as a former soldier and now as a doctor who has two sons that are serving in the military in what is officially a war that has been declared by Israel now.

Dr. Yoel Har-Even, thank you so much for the work that you're doing to try and heal the people who have been so badly injured. I appreciate your time, sir.

HAR-EVEN: Thank you, Sara. Thank you. Good evening.

SIDNER: All right. We are having to take a quick break. Our special coverage, though, of the conflict between Israel and Hamas, the war that has now unfolded continues next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: Welcome back. It is the top of the hour. I'm Dana Bash in Washington.

SIDNER: And I'm Sara Sidner in Tel Aviv with CNN's breaking news coverage of "Israel at War."

As Israel prepares for the next stage, as they have put it, of this war, Gaza is also facing an unprecedented humanitarian catastrophe and on the brink of collapse. The situation there is becoming more and more dire. The U.N. is comparing it to a, quote, "hellhole."

BASH: Gaza is running out of water, electricity, and is facing a severe shortage of food and medicine. Tens of thousands of people have fled northern Gaza heading for the south, that is despite Hamas who is supposed to be the leadership there telling innocent civilians not to leave, keeping them there, and that according to both the U.S. and Israel is because Hamas would rather have the civilians as human shields rather than keeping them safe.

Israel says they are trying to work on a humanitarian safe zone for evacuees. But when talking to CNN's Wolf Blitzer today Israel's president could not give a timeline on when it would open. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR, THE SITUATION ROOM: How close are you, Mr. President, to establishing what's called a humanitarian corridor out of southern Gaza? You mentioned earlier Israel is working on it.

ISAAC HERZOG, ISRAELI PRESIDENT: So these facts are being discussed right now. Tomorrow Secretary of State Tony Blinken will return to Israel and the region, and I'm sure this will be a top priority in his meetings.

BLITZER: So you support allowing that southern Rafah border crossing to be open so folks could leave Gaza?

HERZOG: So I would say the following, as president I am a head of state, but this is -- the powers are vested with the Israeli cabinet and government under Prime Minister Netanyahu and the new national unity emergency government, and it's in their hands.

[16:05:13]

But the entire effort is with a view to maintaining full humanitarian support for the people of Gaza.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: A very good interview and there's more of that interview online between Wolf Blitzer and the president of Israel, Herzog.

In the south of Gaza the Rafah crossing, as you just heard them talking about, is supposed to reopen today according to U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken. It is the only border point out of Gaza that is not controlled by Israel.

In the meantime along the Israeli-Lebanese border there have been some intense exchanges of fire today. We've just learned that a rocket has hit the headquarters of the U.N. peacekeeping force in Lebanon. Thankfully no one there was hurt.

Now we are also hearing harrowing stories after airstrikes in Gaza and these folks are beside themselves wondering what they're going to do when there is a ground offensive, but right now they are in deep sorrow after witnessing another airstrike that collapsed a building. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We are in Deir al-Balah in Shaykh Dawoud. Today at dusk we witnessed strikes using F-16 without prior warning. We were running and found the house on fire and charred. There were people alive and we rescued them quickly, but there were people still under the rubble. Until now there are three families under this house. A large number were martyred and there remains a large number of martyrs under the rubble. UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): God willing they are all in

heaven. All my family will be in heaven. They gave their life for Jerusalem, for Palestine. For Palestine. They were all women, all children, children, children.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: Here in Israel Hamas continues to target Israel, Tel Aviv. We saw rockets coming over just an hour or two ago and it is also targeting the border city of Sderot. This morning the terrorist group sent another barrage of rockets into that particular area, and citizens in the city boarded buses trying to get away from the conflict zone and into other parts of the country. It has been a terrifying, terrifying situation for the families there as well.

CNN's Clarissa Ward is in Ashkelon. That's about 25 minutes' drive from Sderot.

Clarissa, give us some sense of what you have been seeing, what you have been experiencing as you have been here from the start really of this war.

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Sara, I think the focus is now very much on Gaza, what the U.N. is calling an unprecedented humanitarian catastrophe playing out before our eyes. In a pretty emotional statement the commissioner general for the U.N. Agency for Relief and Works basically said that the world has lost its humanity.

He went on to outline that for eight days not a drop of water, no electricity, no food, no medicine has been able to be provided into Gaza. He also reminded people that more than 60 percent of Gaza's residents because of the blockade on Gaza are already dependent on food aid. So in addition to the relentless airstrikes that have claimed so many lives, more than 2700 Palestinians have been killed, you now have this incredibly intense humanitarian catastrophe.

I spoke to a young student in northern Gaza, that is the area that the IDF has told Palestinians to leave. She said that they can't leave because they don't know where to go, they don't have a place to go, and they don't feel that it's safe. And there is no electricity. Now, I will say that the IDF, Israel's defense forces, have said that the water has been turned back on in southern Gaza. There seems to be some difficulty in confirming that right now, some mixed reports there.

But I want to draw your attention, Sara, if we can just pull up a tweet. This tweet is from October in 2022 and it's from the E.U. commissioner Ursula Von Der Leyen. And you can read what she says here. She's talking about Russia and Ukraine, but she says quite clearly, cutting off men, women, children of water, electricity, she goes on to add heat, these are pure acts of terror and we have to call it such.

I think the frustration and the anger and the outrage that you're seeing from many is due to a perceived double standard in the type of language that we have seen from U.S. and European leaders with regards to Ukraine, as opposed to what we are seeing now.

[16:10:08]

Now, I will say that in the last day, we have been hearing slightly more calibrated responses from people like Secretary of State Antony Blinken, from European leaders, urging Israel's leadership to go out of its way to make sure that the international humanitarian law and the international norms are not abused, but as it stands quite clearly, listening to that report from the U.N., the situation there is rapidly escalating, unraveling, and despite the efforts on so many parts to try to clear some kind of humanitarian corridor, there is no sense that this is going to change imminently -- Sara.

SIDNER: Look, this is why the U.N. calls Gaza a -- basically an open- air prison because it is very hard for the Palestinians there to get in and out of it, and that's on a regular day, not when there has been a war, but as Israel has said over and over and over again, Hamas has helped create this, Hamas is the one keeping civilians there when they want to leave, not giving them any chance when there's a ground or if and when there is going to be a ground incursion.

Clarissa Ward, thank you so much. I think -- I just want to ask you one more question. There's something going on of course in Lebanon, that's the northern border with Israel, with rockets coming over. And we've seen this over the last few days, different things happening there on that border. You know, this is sort of the existential crisis that Israelis and the military and the government here has always worried about that they would have war on several fronts.

What are you hearing about what's going on there in the Lebanese- Israeli border?

WARD: So we know that there has been rocket fire going both into Israel from southern Lebanon, also Israeli forces have responded to that fire. We know according to the U.N. Peacekeeping Force in south Lebanon that their headquarters there were actually hit. Nobody was injured.

But as you say, Sara, this speaks to a very real palpable fear that a second front in this war could potentially develop and that if Hezbollah was to become involved with this war that it would dramatically change the picture of what we are seeing Hezbollah has a huge amount of rockets, including long-range rockets, could potentially be extremely dangerous. Of course, everyone remembers the war in 2006 as well between Israel and Hezbollah. So definite real concerns that that could be escalating -- Sara.

SIDNER: Yes, and potential of it escalating further. The U.S. also talking about potentially putting troops on the ground to try and save the hostages that were taken who are Americans and others.

Clarissa Ward, there are just so many things that could happen, but we are waiting to see what actually does happen. I appreciate all of your incredible reporting throughout this really difficult time.

The IDF just announced that they now have a firm number of how many hostages are being held by Hamas. 155 civilians have been taken into Gaza against their will since the war started eight days ago. That is the number that they have come up with. And we know that several of those hostages are American citizens. We do not have an exact number of just how many.

CNN's Hadas Gold is joining us now.

Hadas, the U.S. is saying it really won't rule out, and I just mentioned this to Clarissa, sending in U.S. troops to rescue hostages, which is something that I think will catch some people by surprise and catch the families and give them some hope that potentially maybe there is a way to see their loved ones again alive and well. What are you learning?

HADAS GOLD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I mean, it would be unprecedented to have American boots on the ground in this way, but as we've said, unprecedented situation. I mean, the horrors of what we've heard happened to these victims, to the ones who were killed, I can't even, you know, repeat some of what happened to them and the horrors of what may be happening to these hostages right now, especially those with American citizenship -- in addition to those with American citizenships, I think that's why you might see an unprecedented response.

Now, will we see a full-fledged, you know, full hundreds, thousands of Americans boots on the ground? Will we see activity from those carrier ships? That's harder to tell. You know, the American and Israeli militaries work incredibly closely together. I've heard the IDF officials call the Americans their brothers-in-arms. A few months ago I was on the USS George H.W. Bush for the largest joint military exercise between the Americans and the Israelis, meant to send this exact message, this very clear message to especially Iran and their proxies in the region, be careful of what you do here because the Americans will get involved.

[16:15:08]

And we've never been closer to this relationship being put to a test than where we are right now. Now, we have heard from John Kirby saying that right now there's no plans or intentions to put U.S. troops on the ground in this fight between Israel and Hamas. He said that on FOX News earlier today, but they are not necessarily ruling this out. Right now so far the American military support has been limited to things like munitions, to things like helping replenish the Iron Dome interceptors, to the carrier ships we see off the coast.

And we also know that a federal hostage recovery experts are assisting the Israelis in trying to recover these hostages. Now the big question is, will we see any sort of special operations on the ground to try to recover these hostages? So far it seems as though they're letting the Israelis take the lead on that.

SIDNER: Yes, I mean, and you know this all too well living here and reporting from here for a good long time that there are whole tunnels, there is a whole complex of tunnels underneath Gaza and into Israel that these hostages could be in. This could be a really, really difficult situation.

I do want to quickly ask you, though, Hadas Gold, when you hear the possibility that it's not being ruled out, that potentially America would send in U.S. troops, I mean, that's got to give Israel in their coordination some pause as to whether or not they're going to actually go forward with a ground offensive if that is in the works, right? Would that not sort of stop the ground offensive until that operation was over?

GOLD: I mean, I have to be honest, I think it's a question of when, not if this ground operation takes place. The Israeli military saying that they will wipe out Hamas completely and that is their goal. Their plan is to completely eliminate Hamas and potentially turn the power over in Gaza to somebody else, to the Palestinian Authority, to somebody else. They want Hamas out. I've never heard this type of rhetoric from the Israelis before. I think they will definitely be going in, it's just a question of when and not if.

SIDNER: Yes. Hadas Gold, thank you so much. Appreciate all your reporting.

Dana, back to you in Washington.

BASH: Thank you so much, Sara.

And joining me now is CNN national security analyst and former director of National Intelligence, James Clapper.

Director Clapper, thank you so much for joining me. I want to start by talking about intelligence since that is your expertise, one of your areas of expertise, and about the hostages who the U.S. and Israel believes are inside Gaza, including an untold number of Americans.

What will it take to get them out given the reality that you have had Biden officials on air all day admitting that they don't -- they don't -- forget about where they are, they don't know who they are or how many there are.

JAMES CLAPPER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, this is a pretty daunting challenge. Certainly when you're going to do a hostage rescue, this sounds like an obvious thing to say, you've got to know where they are. And I rather doubt we have much insight into location of any of the hostages. I would surmise they're underground and widely dispersed, and Hamas for its part is going to consider any information on the hostages as very, very, you know, sensitive state secret, so to speak.

So this is a real disaster in the making, I think, because as each day goes by, given the condition, the physical condition of many of the hostages, it looks bad. So from an intelligence perspective this is a really, really tough mission, and in the absence of much of any insight in the location of the hostages, you can't do a rescue unless you know where they are.

BASH: Exactly. And, again, just to underscore the thought is that it's over 100 Israelis, but also American citizens, American citizens who were taken forcibly, brutally by Hamas terrorists and brought across the border.

Director Clapper, the president of Israel, Herzog, was on with Wolf earlier today and he said that the main goal for the Israeli military is to destroy the terrorist infrastructure in Gaza. Eventually through their ground operation. What does that even look like?

CLAPPER: I think it looks like a potential humanitarian disaster of biblical proportions. Given the conditions in Gaza under the best situation, which is not very good, they have very fragile infrastructure there, I think any ground incursion which will be a sledgehammer, I think, with all the weaponry, the tanks of the Israelis.

[16:20:02]

And I don't blame them a bit for wanting to destroy Hamas once and for all, but in the process I think it's unavoidable to incur a lot of collateral casualties, innocent Palestinians and a lot of collateral damage, not to mention probably some substantial IDF casualties as well. So this whole situation for me does not bode well.

BASH: You served in the military, served the U.S. country for many years and including at the end as the director of National Intelligence, so you have -- and you were in that region as well, of course. You have an understanding of the dynamic in the broader region, particularly with the Arab countries around Gaza. And one of the big discussions today, particularly with the U.S. secretary of state in Egypt, has been getting the Rafah crossing at the south of Gaza where Gaza meets Egypt open to get these innocent Palestinian civilians out of the country, out of harm's way.

My question is -- and if you can explain to our viewers -- why is this so difficult? Why is Egypt not doing this, particularly given the amount of money that Egypt gets from the United States?

CLAPPER: Well, Dana, that's a great question. You know, the billion plus dollars that we provide to Egypt each year I would hope would illicit a more supportive, cooperative attitude on their part. I think they probably have legitimate concerns from a security standpoint about people flowing into the Sinai. They have their own internal security challenges already. But that said, something needs to be done here and I think looking ahead here, you know, what's going to change after all this is done.

And this is an obvious point but I'll state it, that we absolutely must come up with some sort of viable settlement for all Palestinians, West Bank and Gaza both, after this is over. We have to get through this.

BASH: Yes.

CLAPPER: The Israelis are bound and determined to do their thing, and I don't -- I don't question that.

BASH: And just sticking on the Gaza side, which is where this military battle is happening, Israel has no desire to be in Gaza. Israel pulled out of Gaza. So we are looking far ahead now, but since we're there, what does that even look like?

CLAPPER: Well, it looks like a viable Palestinian Authority and it looks like to me the destruction of Hamas. That has to -- that has to happen. They are despicable and what they did was despicable, and I think the Israelis have reached a point where they are going to do them in and in the process probably a lot of innocent people are going to be killed. Just underlies -- underscores why ultimately we've got to break this cycle of violence and come up with a viable regional settlement, and the Arab nations must absolutely be involved and must display some leadership.

BASH: Well said, Director James Clapper, former director of National Intelligence. Thank you so much, sir, for being here with me.

CLAPPER: Thanks.

BASH: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:28:00]

SIDNER: Some extraordinary news at this hour. The U.S. says that it's not ruling out sending American troops to save Americans who were kidnapped by Hamas and taken to Gaza.

The Israel war continues on its different footing now, just hearing that. In Egypt there is mounting pressure to establish a humanitarian corridor to help facilitate the safe evacuation of Palestinians, civilians, who are living there in grave danger as a ground offensive by Israel is imminent. When exactly we do not know, but they are amassing troops, of course, on the border and have been for several days now.

The United Nations is indicating it's keeping the option open of deploying troops as a potential measure to ensure the safety and evacuation of American citizens as well.

Joining us now is Max Boot, a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relation. He is also a columnist with the "Washington Post."

First, though, I'm sorry -- what did you say in my ear? His last piece on the latest conflict is titled "Israel Doesn't Need an Inquiry to Decide Netanyahu Must Go." Those are words that are shared by some here in Israel. Others are very supportive of Netanyahu and his government.

What led you to this moment to say that, to put that out to the public?

MAX BOOT, SENIOR FELLOW, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: Well, I think Netanyahu's far-right government has been a disaster from day one. They won with a very narrow majority and based on that they were trying to engineer massive quasi-constitutional changes in the judicial oversight of the Knesset which led to massive protests, which led to reservists saying that they were not going to call up for duty, and that was clearly something that was perceived by Israel's enemies as an invitation to attack.

It fed this notion that Israel was weak. That was something that Israeli intelligence warned Netanyahu about this summer. He chose to disregard those warnings. And of course, he was caught asleep at the watch in the worst one-day attack in Israeli history. So there have to be consequences for that. There has to be accountability and this happened on Netanyahu's watch.

[16:30:20]

And I just think that he has no credibility to lead right now, although I think it is a good thing that he is now in a coalition government with Benny Gantz.

SIDNER: Yeah, it's really interesting that you say that because Haaretz, one of the newspapers here in Israel, had a similar editorial that they put out. And it's very unusual during wartime when a country has declared war, it is unusual that the leader of that country is attacked. But that is what is happening in some parts of the country here. Can you elaborate, Max, now on the historical examples that you mentioned in your article where you say like tyrants and terrorists underestimate liberal democracies. And how do these instances relate to sort of the conflict? This is a protracted conflict, to be fair, between Hamas and Israel.

BOOT: Well, I think there's a tendency on behalf of tyrants and terrorists to underestimate the martial strength of liberal democracies because they see them in peacetime. They see that they are pursuing commercial pursuits. They're not geared up for war all the time. And so therefore, there's a tendency to think that they are incapable of fighting effectively. And that is an illusion that many tyrants have paid for with their lives or with their losing their wars. I mean, you think about Hitler and Tojo and the war that they declared on the United States, which ended with the utter annihilation of Germany and Japan. You think about more recently Osama Bin Laden thinking that the United States was a weak horse and could be attacked with impunity. And of course, eventually, Bin Laden himself was tracked down and killed by Navy SEALs.

And I think that's a very common experience that democracies have a hidden strength that dictators and terrorists don't perceive. And you're seeing that right now in Israel where they've been able to mobilize in just a few days, more than 300,000 reserves. That's just an astonishing number. And you've seen in Russia in the last year that people were fleeing the country to avoid being called up to serve in the army. Whereas in Israel, it's the exact opposite. Israelis are coming from all over the world. They're flying home just so they can fight and defend their country. And I think Hamas is going to be surprised by the ferocity and the effectiveness of the Israeli response.

SIDNER: And you know this, in any war, civilians always seem to pay the highest price, but this was something that was precipitated by an attack, a terrorist attack by Hamas on civilians here in Israel. And Israel has decided that it is going to respond in a very different way than in the past. It has declared war on Max Boot. Thank you so much for your thoughts. And our coverage continues right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:37:20]

BASH: I'm Dana Bash in Washington and Sara Sidner, you are in Israel and I want to take a moment to talk to you about your experience. You've been in Tel Aviv now for several days, but you were the Jerusalem correspondent for CNN in 2012 and 2013 and I know you've been in and out since then covering some battles and so forth and I wanted to just take a moment for you to give our viewers that perspective of things that you have seen then and how different it is at this moment where you are.

SIDNER: Yeah, back then, which is a long time ago, it didn't connect with me, it's been 10 years, but you'd see clashes as people would call them between the West Bank and Israel and then you would see incursions or operations as Israel would call it in Gaza and you'd see rockets coming over from Gaza every now and then. This is completely different. There is a completely different feel, even though some of those operations, some of those incursions were massive. I mean, there were airstrikes, I was there in Gaza during some of the airstrikes after there was a barrage of rockets that kept coming over the border from Hamas and from Gaza into Israel.

These airstrikes were powerful, they make your bones rattle, your teeth clench, they are terrifying, you can hear planes flying over and there's a real sense, I was around children when one of those airstrikes went off and I can't tell you, children would shudder looking up every time they heard anything flying over them. On this side of the border, the rocket attacks that happen so often, Dana, in places like Sderot and Ashkelon, there's always this sense that at any moment you could lose your life or be injured or lose a family member. And so, you can understand that deep sense of resentment and the tension that has been building and building and building, but this attack by Hamas was so disturbing, disgusting, debased, that Israel has decided that it is gonna go all-out war and that is a completely different thing. We will have to wait and see how it all ends. Dana.

BASH: Yeah, no question. And you mentioned what's going on even where you are in Tel Aviv, you've heard sirens go off and you've heard booms. People largely there for now are safe. --

(CROSSTALK)

SIDNER: -- Which is unusual for Tel Aviv. Yeah.

BASH: -- Thank goodness. And largely safe thanks to the Iron Dome, which the U.S. is helping replenish. Sara, thank you so much for your excellent reporting. I'll try to tell you to stay safe, but I know you will. Thank you, Sara.

SIDNER: Thank you, Dana.

[16:40:39] BASH: Still ahead, the victims of Hamas's brutal attacks, still recovering both physically and emotionally, at least trying. Next, I'm going to talk to a woman who survived the Nova Festival attack. She is back with the IDF, fighting for her country. She'll join me live after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BASH: Now a sobering reminder of how this war upended lives within seconds. One moment, this young woman was enjoying the Nova Peace Festival, music festival, with her friends. Next, rockets started raining down. She survived by hiding, and now, just days later, she is back with her IDF unit fighting to protect her country. This is Chen [ph], joining us now. We are withholding her last name and specific location for security. Thank you so much for joining me. First, if we could just go back in time, if you will, to eight days ago and what you survived at that festival.

UNKNOWN: Okay, first, I can't believe that it's been eight days from that day. And I've been in the Nova Festival with my friend, and we went there to celebrate life and happiness, and all we want to do is to dance. And during dancing, on about 6.30 in the morning, they shut down the music, and we look up in the sky, and we saw rain of rockets, like literally rain of rockets. And no one knew what to do. So, everyone starts screaming and yelling and crying. And me and my friend decide we need to go to our car. So, we went to our car and 3000 people trying to go out from a parking lot. It's not something easy. It's not something nice.

[16:45:09]

And while we're in our car waiting, waiting to go out. I saw I saw everyone left the cars and start running. And I didn't know what happened. So, I opened my my car window. And I heard someone screaming, they're here the terrorists are here. And then I realized that this is big terrorist in Israel. Okay, so I left my car me and my friend start running to -- to the field. And I start -- I start hearing the gunshot and come forward to us. And I lost my friend during the running. And -- I start running by myself. So, I found a bush. And I lay on the ground in the bush. And I put my hands on my head. And with my face down. And the gunshots still continuing and people crying for help. And after that, about -- about one hour or two later of hiding, I heard people not, not screaming, but they were allowed to go back to your cars, guys, but go back to your cars.

So, because I was on my own, I decided to raise my head a little bit up to see what's going on. And I decided I need to go back to my car. So, I start running. And I saw my friend from home during the running. And I call him to come with me. And we get inside the car. And we start driving because the road was blocked from both, both sides. And we saw the cops, they were terrifying. The cops were terrified. Also, they didn't know what sure what happened.

BASH: Sure.

UNKNOWN: And they -- they wrecked us to -- to a road to a farm road. And --

BASH: and you got out?

UNKNOWN: We, yeah, no, but in this in that road, we saw a lot of dead bodies, dead bodies that didn't just murdered, they was slaughtered, okay, with -- with cold blood. And we drove slowly because we didn't want to run over the body. And this is how I escape home.

BASH: And -- I'm so sorry. I just want to make sure that our viewers know that you're talking to us in the dark because you are just days later. Fighting in the IDF fighting in the war.

(CROSSTALK)

UNKNOWN: Yeah. I decided to come back.

BASH: -- Can you -- can you can you briefly tell us that as a survivor, that must be unimaginably difficult.

UNKNOWN: Yes, it is. But after a couple days that I was sitting in my home and dealing with my mental health issue that happened after what I survived, really survived. I, I decided I need to go back to, to army because I'm a combat soldier. Okay. And when we reach 18 in Israel, and we joined the army, we take an oath. And we swear to protect Israel with to protect our country no matter when and no matter what. And I decided that I need to go back to my unit because my unit were there to start fighting. Okay, and I needed to do my duty. I needed to do what I what I swear what I swear on.

Because, yeah, I don't have another home. And what happened this massacre this we're on 2023. And I was a witness to a massacre. And I don't have another home. I don't have another land, my family here. I don't know anything else. So, I decided I need to come back. I decided to put aside everything I've been through.

BASH: And, well, I'm sure you can never put aside everything you've been through. And you your bravery is just, it clearly knows no bounds. And we thank you so much for coming on, particularly given how late it is there and the peril that you are facing. And we thank you so, so much. Thank you, Chen.

UNKNOWN: Thank you for hearing me.

BASH: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:50:59]

BASH: Stories of heroism are emerging as we learn how Israeli citizens put up fierce resistance against Hamas terrorists as they invaded their homes. Here's CNN's Matthew Chance.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

MATTHEW CHANCE, CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: The attacks by Hamas were a bloodbath. Israelis slaughtered or taken hostage.

BARUCH COHEN, KIBBUTZ MAGEN HEAD OF SECURITY: But at Kibbutz Magen near Gaza, the militants met their match. One of the things that I always thought is you shall never catch me with my underwear in my hand.

CHANCE: Never catch you with your pants down?

COHEN: Never. He suffered shrapnel wounds and an amputated leg. But when dozens of Hamas fighters tried to breach his Kibbutz fence last weekend, this 72-year-old former paratrooper and war veteran swung into action.

COHEN: I decide to take my car. I take a few magazines with me. And I decide to enter as much as soon as I can to this group to shoot them over the window of my car.

CHANCE: So, you drove towards the attackers, and you started shooting at them?

COHEN: I tried. I shoot them.

CHANCE: Before they came through the fence?

COHEN: I tried before. In my head that was the only way to stop them.

CHANCE: In nearby Jewish communities or Kibbutzim, Hamas attackers ran amok in a vile killing and kidnapping spree. But at Kibbutz Magen, home to more than 400 Israelis, the small team of armed volunteers, trained and led by Baruch, kept the militants at bay.

COHEN: The best thing.

CHANCE: His wife, Mina, at his bedside, told me she has no doubt why.

MINA COHEN, HAMAS ATTACK SURVIVOR: The difference is Baruch.

CHANCE: Your husband?

M. COHEN: My husband, Baruch. 20 years that he's in this position. And every time that a lot of young people come in and make the same position that Baruch make in the other kibbutzim, they laugh at him. They say that he's crazy. They say that he's speaking nonsense. Nobody will come. And Baruch defended the kibbutz year by year. And all the people laughed at him. And he was --

CHANCE: They laughed at him. They said he was paranoid. He's paranoid. They said it's not going to happen.

(CROSSTALK)

M.COHEN: It's not -- It never will happen because we have the army.

CHANCE: In fact, the Israeli army came under attack by Hamas too, leaving Baruch and his team to fight alone for more than six hours. Way longer than expected. COHEN: Where is the army? They

[16:55:49]

COHEN: Where is the army? They teach us that if something happens, I always tell to my friends, to my members, that we got 35 minutes of gold, gold minutes that belong to us. After 35 minutes, the army should be here, the best unit should be here, and etc, etc, etc.

CHANCE: But they didn't come?

COHEN: The watches didn't work.

CHANCE: As Israelis elsewhere were taken hostage, their communities overrun, Baruch fought on, severely injured and out of ammo, armed with just a blade.

COHEN: I took in my hand and I said, if he shall come, he shall find me with a knife.

CHANCE: A stubborn determination, his friends and neighbours say helped save them from the grim fate of others nearby. Matthew Chance, CNN, Jerusalem.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

BASH: Almost too much to bear, and that man truly is a hero. Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm Dana Bash. CNN's coverage from Israel will continue with Erin Burnett there, and Jim Acosta right here. Don't go anywhere.