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Israel-Hamas War Rages On As Death Toll Rises In Gaza; White House Not Ruling Out Using Troops To Rescue Americans; Netanyahu Invites Biden To Visit Israel; Fears For Gaza Grow As Aid Talks Ramp Up; Israel Plans to Capture Gaza City, Eradicate Hamas; Son Speaks About His Mother Taken by Hamas. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired October 15, 2023 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:04]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: Good evening. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington with our continuing coverage of "Israel at War."

There are new updates from the battlefield at this hour. Israeli Defense Forces now claim they have killed a Hamas commander amid a barrage of 250 strikes in Gaza today. It comes eight days after Hamas terrorists brutally slaughtered and kidnapped hundreds of innocent Israeli citizens. The death toll from those attacks has now grown to include 30 Americans among the more than 1400 killed.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has invited President Biden to visit Israel as Israeli forces prepare for a ground offensive. And I'm joined now by my colleague Erin Burnett live in Tel Aviv for us.

Erin, what's the situation on your end right now?

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Well, Jim, obviously we are now here, you know, just after 1:00 in the morning in Israel. And it is clear skies behind me. We've been talking a bit about the forecast for some extremely violent thunderstorms that could impact any possible plans, also any kind of, you know, heavy rainfall obviously incredibly disruptive when you talk about the terrain in Gaza and along that border where 350,000 or so Israeli troops are gathered right now.

You mentioned 250 airstrikes as we're looking at Gaza on our screens. Those airstrikes just today, and they say another Hamas senior commander was killed in those strikes today. The IDF spokesperson just joined us, Jim, obviously saying that they've killed about 10 senior Hamas members thus far since the beginning of this war, but that there are many more to come. Still calling them dead men walking, which I think reflects still the sense of revenge and quiet rage, which is so palpable in this country where things are essentially still at a standstill, while they're waiting, waiting for something to happen.

And of course the U.S. secretary of state will be coming in to the country again to meet with Prime Minister Benajmin Netanyahu tomorrow. We all, of course, watch and wait, the whole world does, and I want to bring in our chief international correspondent Clarissa Ward into this conversation as well. Clarissa, I know you are in Ashkelon just north of that Gaza border.

And what are you seeing tonight? I mean, you know, we've been watching and watching and the build-up is to incredible and so powerful, and yet still we wait.

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Still we wait, Erin. We have been hearing jets overhead and we have been talking to people inside Gaza where the situation appears to be rapidly spiraling out of control into what one U.N. commissioner called an unprecedented humanitarian catastrophe.

We spoke to a 22-year-old dentistry student. She lives in the northern part of Gaza. That is the area that Israeli forces have asked to be evacuated. She said that she and her family have not been able to leave their home yet because they don't have anywhere to go. They're concerned about the fact that there is no place in the south that has electricity, that has water.

I should say that Israeli forces have said that they have turned the water back on in southern Gaza but so far it's been very difficult to get a picture of whether or not that is happening with one group in Gaza saying that basically because there is no electricity to power the pump, it's not clear that even if the water has been turned on that water will be coming out any time soon. So clearly a situation which is becoming untenable for the people of Gaza.

There is a lot of fear. There's a lot of chaos. There's a lot of confusion. We heard our own Jake Tapper spoke earlier with the Israeli ambassador to the U.S. who said that they are trying to help facilitate the creation of a kind of large humanitarian zone that could potentially offer some refuge to, in his words, hundreds of thousands of people. But for a number of reasons, it's clear that that hasn't happened yet.

It's being complicated by the fact that the Rafah Border Crossing with Egypt has not been opened yet, even to let in that desperately, desperately needed aid -- Erin.

BURNETT: And Clarissa, on that front, what needs to happen for aid to get in and out, and when you think about those borders, obviously controlled by Egypt and Israel. The vast majority of it by Israel. So for that aid to come in, what role does Israel play? They've made it clear they're not going to send aid themselves, but they said they won't stop anybody else from doing it, except for of course they do control the means of entrance.

WARD: They do and that's why I think you're seeing these impassioned pleas coming from the U.N. The U.N. secretary general saying, you know, we're on the edge of the abyss here in the Middle East. He called on Hamas to immediately release those hostages and he called on Israel to immediately allow desperately needed aid, electricity, water to get into Gaza.

[18:05:07]

We heard a little bit earlier from the commissioner for the U.N. Agency of Relief and Works. He said the world has lost its humanity. He said that 60 percent of Gazans -- I don't know if you can hear jets again overhead. 60 percent of Gazans are completely dependent on food aid and they have not been able to get in food, water, medicine, electricity, nothing for eight days now. So the stocks have run out.

They can easily be replenished according to the U.N. within a matter of hours. There are lots of stockpiles in multiple countries nearby. But there has to be some commitment to facilitate sort of free and unfettered access to allow that aid to enter. On the Egyptian side, this has been the focus of really intense diplomatic efforts. We saw Secretary of State Blinken in Cairo today meeting with the Egyptian President Abdel Fattah El-Sisi. Sisi said that he thinks that Israel has gone beyond the point of its right to self-defense, that Israel is basically issuing collective punishment on the people of Gaza.

What he didn't say, though, is what exactly it will take for Egypt to allow some of that aid to start coming in through that Rafah Border Crossing. For the Egyptians, this is a complicated prospect, because Rafah borders with the Sinai Peninsula. It's a heavy militarized zone. Egypt already has many challenges in terms of poverty, and they don't want to see a huge stream of humanity pouring into the desert who they cannot afford or really cope with taking care of.

So that's I guess why this idea of creating a humanitarian zone within southern Gaza itself has come up. But, again, hugely problematic in terms of the logistics. So I do think that we're seeing a real ratcheting up in the pressure on Israel, on Egypt, on various actors who support Israel to put an end to this unmitigated suffering and to ensure, and we're hearing people like Blinken using this language now as well, that, you know, the correct humanitarian international law is abided by because the situation in Gaza right now is only intensifying.

I also think it's worth reminding our viewers, Erin, when you talk to people in northern Gaza, there is a reluctance to leave their homes for a number of reasons. First of all, we know that Hamas has been telling people not to leave their homes. Right? That hasn't helped.

BURNETT: Right.

WARD: Secondly, there's been a huge amount of fear about attacks or bombs along the route to go south. The IDF has said that they had nothing to do with that. But it only fuels people's fears. But the girl who I spoke to, the 22-year-old dentistry student, she also talked about this broader reluctance of many Palestinians to leave their homes because they're fearful that they won't be allowed to come back.

They're fearful that this is going to be another Nakba, as the Palestinians call it, meaning the catastrophe, referring to 1948 when 700,000 Palestinians were forced to leave their homes. So all of this combines to create a kind of paralysis.

BURNETT: Right.

WARD: And for those who do leave their homes, a kind of chaos as they try to find refuge and all of these U.N. centers are by their own accounts, Erin, just completely overwhelmed.

BURNETT: Completely overwhelmed, and as you point out, you know, such as there are refugee camps in Egypt which of course there are for other countries in Africa, these things become permanent. I mean, just ask Jordan. Refugee camp wouldn't be the word they would use anymore, right? I mean, these are permanent locations. So you can see why that fear is so palpable in addition to the historical context that you give to it.

Clarissa, today here in Tel Aviv, you know, we had continually heard explosions in Gaza. Honestly, a little bit less of that. But there were more incoming rockets than there have been any other day and frankly in a couple of instances there were no siren warnings at all, and then rockets just landed, which has been unexpected given the Iron Dome System. I'm curious what your experience was in Ashkelon today, right along that Gaza border.

WARD: Yes. It's interesting you should mention that, Erin. We did have several barrages of rockets and there were at least two instances that I can remember where there was no siren. There was no red alert and we just suddenly heard explosions in the sky. I think the other significant thing that has happened today, that, you know, potentially does not portend well for the future of this conflict, is increased activity back and forth between southern Lebanon and Israeli forces in the north of the country.

[18:10:05]

The fear has been from the get-go that a second front could open in this war, that Hezbollah could get involved in this war, which would dramatically up the ante and dramatically also I would think up the number of casualties that we're seeing.

The U.N. has said that their peacekeeping force, UNIFIL, in southern Lebanon, that their headquarters were hit. Nobody was injured. About nine instances, I believe, of rockets being reported. But all of this, again, just sort of fanning the flames of these tensions and leading to very real fears that this conflict could escalate even further, Erin.

BURNETT: Clarissa, thank you very much. In Ashkelon, south of where we are tonight. Thank you, Clarissa.

And our special coverage continues after a very short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: With more than a dozen Americans unaccounted for following the Hamas attack in Israel, the Biden administration now says it knows there are Americans being held hostage by Hamas.

We're joined now by CNN Jerusalem correspondent Hadas Gold. She's here in studio with us.

Great to see you in person. Always see you over the live shots. So great to have you here as well. One of the things that we saw being discussed today and this was asked of numerous American officials is whether or not the U.S. would commit to using troops in some way to free these American hostages. That is a dicey proposition.

HADAS GOLD, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: It would be very dicey, and that could set the region off on a totally different path than where they are now. and I don't think that we necessarily see American boots on the ground. Now, listen, the Israeli and the American militaries have incredibly close relationship.

[18:15:03]

I always hear Israeli officials talk about how the Americans are their brothers-in-arms. I was on a USS carrier ship just a few months ago for the largest joint exercise between the two armies with a clear message towards Iran and toward its proxies in the region about be careful with what you do. But again, I don't think we will quite yet see a full American boots on the ground. We're seeing lots of support, ammunitions, munitions, we have those carrier ships standing off in the Mediterranean Sea.

But John Kirby himself spoke earlier about this and we listened to what he had to say but I don't think we'll see those boots on the ground in the coming days.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KIRBY, NSC COMMUNICATIONS COORDINATOR: There is plans or intentions to put U.S. troops on the ground to fight in this between the Israel and Hamas.

SHANNON BREAM, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: But to retrieve Americans?

KIRBY: We are actively trying to find out exactly where they are. I mean, Shannon, we don't even know how many exactly. We saw a small handful we know. But there could be more than we know. What I won't do is rule anything in or out when it comes to getting our hostages home. We're working on this literally by the hour.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLD: Now we do know that there is an American federal hostage, you know, team in Israel to try and help them. But it seems like right now the Americans are letting the Israelis take the lead even though some of these hostages do have American citizenship.

ACOSTA: And Hadas, you just left Israel with your family. You're going to be having a baby soon. So congratulations on that.

GOLD: Thank you.

ACOSTA: You spent some time in Israel. What was life like there when you were leaving? It must have been surreal to leave just as all of this is happening.

GOLD: Yes. Listen, I have never seen Israel like this, and nobody I know who has been living in Israel, you know, for decades has ever seen Israel like this. This is why people are comparing it to Israel's 9/11 because even for like the Yom Kippur War 50 years ago, which was this, you know, surprise attack by the armies, most of the casualties were soldiers.

This is civilians. And Israelis are seeing horrors on their screens day by day that we can't even discuss right here because they're so terrible what happened to these children, to these elderly, to happens to these families. This is the largest massacre of Jews since the Holocaust, and that's why we're seeing rhetoric I have never seen before from any Israeli official, from the military, even from, you know, the more liberal left-wing.

They are -- they want essentially to decimate Hamas. They want to decimate Hamas off the face of the planet, and that's why I think we are maybe unprepared, Jim, for what we might see happening in Gaza in the next few days. It's not a question of if there will be a ground incursion, it's a question of when and what exactly it will look like.

ACOSTA: Absolutely. And it's clear, and I think the point that you make makes it perfectly clear that people feel this in Israel deep down in their bones.

GOLD: It's a small country. If you just look at the percentage.

ACOSTA: My friends that are in there saying the same thing that you're saying.

GOLD: If you just look at the percentage of people who were killed, and the percentage of people who have been called up for reserve duty, there is not a single person, an Israeli citizen there who has not been directly affected either by somebody killed, taken hostage or has been called up for reserves right now.

ACOSTA: All right. Hadas, glad you're safe. Glad your family is safe. Best of luck to you. Thanks a lot. Really appreciate it.

GOLD: Thank you.

ACOSTA: Joining me now to talk about this further is Barak Ravid, a foreign policy director for Axios.

Barak, really appreciate you coming on and talking about this. Just to pick up on what I was talking about with Hadas a few moments ago, we're all watching and waiting to see what happens next. And we've been showing these live pictures of Gaza, the images this evening with the exception of maybe a few flashes that we've seen here or there. About the same as what we saw last night. But as Hadas was saying, this is not a matter of if, this is a matter of when.

And your sense of it as to what she was saying that Americans and people around the world might be somewhat unprepared for the level of, you know, wartime violence that we're about to see unfold.

BARAK RAVID, AXIOS MIDDLE EAST CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I think that, you know, Israel found itself in this situation on the one hand, you know, for years Israel went on all sorts of small operations in Gaza because it didn't want to go all the way, it didn't want to topple Hamas, it didn't -- it never said that the aim is to dismantle the organization. And now it understands that on the one hand, if it goes for such an operation, then they're going to be a lot of casualties both on the Israeli side obviously but also on the Palestinian side.

It will create a lot of international anger and criticism. On the other hand, if Israel doesn't go on such an operation, first, you know, Israeli public opinion is going to go nuts. That's for sure. It's going to be huge pressure on the government. There's already huge pressure on the government. But more important than that, other countries in the region, Iran, Hezbollah, other Israeli adversaries and enemies, will look at it and say, oh, the Israelis are weak so now it's our time to try and do it also.

So this is why at the end of the day the Israeli government doesn't really have any other option but to go in.

ACOSTA: And just a few moments ago we mentioned that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has invited President Biden to visit Israel soon.

[18:20:06]

No timetable obviously, you know, when that might happen, and obviously White House officials are not going to get into that kind of timing in terms of travel of the president. But what is your sense of it? The importance of that, that Netanyahu would invite the U.S. president to Israel?

RAVID: First, I think that at least from what I hear from U.S. officials, this thing, this visit is being seriously considered, even though there is no final decision. I would not be surprised at all if we see President Biden in Israel on Friday, ahead of a possible international conference in Egypt on Saturday. International conference regarding Gaza. President Sisi invited Biden today to come to this conference.

The White House is considering this, too. And at least from what I think and what I see and what I hear, there is a very high chance that Biden will go to Israel and to Egypt later this week.

ACOSTA: And you know, we were just talking with Hadas about the prospect of American boots on the ground in Gaza in some capacity, special forces I suppose in some kind of rescue mission for Americans held hostage. We were speaking with Democratic Congressman Adam Smith in the previous hour and he said if there was an actionable plan, he thinks that special forces would go in there and do that.

What is your sense of it, though? Is that a real possibility? Or do you get the sense that the administration is just sort of keeping its options open and using that sort of language that we hear from time to time?

RAVID: There is a hard truth that needs to be told here. There is not going to be a rescue operation. I do not see that. Obviously not the U.S. rescue operation. It's not in the cards in any way. U.S. doesn't really have intelligence about Gaza. It doesn't know the terrain. It's not -- you know, it has no ability to do such a thing. The Israeli military, for years, had soldier Gilad Shalit in Hamas captivity for five years.

The Israelis did not have enough intelligence to try and get one soldier out, and now you're talking about more than 150 people. So I just don't see that. And I'll tell you even more, another hard truth. I don't think that getting the hostages out is the top priority of the Israeli government right now. The top priority is to dismantle Hamas. And it's, again, it's something that is not easy to hear, but I think that's the truth at the moment.

ACOSTA: And just very quickly, finally, Barak, is there a reason why or do you have any sense as to why this is not already underway? This ground incursion that has been foreshadowed by the Israelis? Because why tell everybody this is about to happen and then have the whole world wait 48, 72 hours?

RAVID: So, first, I think that when the Israelis announced that Palestinians should evacuate to the southern Gaza Strip in 24 hours, then I think it was obvious that there will a lot of international criticism because you cannot evacuate a million people in 24 hours. So I think the Israelis understood that and said, you know, OK, no rush. That's first.

Second, what I hear from Israeli officials that, you know, the weather conditions right now are also problematic for such an operation because you need air cover and there are a lot of clouds above Gaza. And third, Israelis are in no rush. It's better to prepare for another day, another two days, another week, and you know, know what you're going into.

ACOSTA: All right. Barak Ravid, thank you very much. Really appreciate, great insights as always.

RAVID: Thank you, Jim.

ACOSTA: Just how dire is the situation right now inside of Gaza? The director general of the Palestinian Red Crescent Society joins my colleague Erin Burnett next.

Stay with us. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:27:50]

BURNETT: Humanitarian crisis in Gaza is getting worse and worse. And people are suffering there. Aid organizations say water and fuel supplies are running dangerously low. Even though theoretically the water was turned back on they say there's not enough power to actually distribute it. Trucks of supplies are stuck in Egypt unable to pass through the border to Gaza. Gaza has not been able to receive any humanitarian aid since the conflict began and of course it's an area completely reliant upon such aid even without the current conflict.

It comes as the Israeli military says it struck more than 100 military targets in Gaza last night, 250 today they say they struck.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED GAZA CIVILIAN (through translator): We were running and found the house on fire and charred. There were people alive and we rescued them quickly. But there were people still under the rubble. Until now there are three families under this house.

UNIDENTIFIED GAZA CIVILIAN (through translator): God willing they are all in heaven. All my family will be in heaven. They gave their life for Jerusalem, for Palestine. For Palestine. They were all women, all children, children, children.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Gaza's Ministry of Health says Israeli airstrikes have killed at least 2,600 people and injured almost 10,000 more since the conflict began over a week ago. And obviously it's hard to know what the real numbers are but the numbers are high, that is clear from the strikes we've seen.

Joining me now from Ramallah is the director general of the Palestinian Red Crescent Society, Marwan Jilani, obviously joining us from the West Bank.

And Marwan, first, I want to get your reaction to the humanitarian crisis unfolding over on this side in Gaza. How bad is this going to get, do you think?

MARWAN JILANI, DIRECTOR GENERAL, PALESTINIAN RED CRESCENT SOCIETY: It's already quite bad. It's horrendous. Before going on air, I was chatting with our colleagues in Gaza City who are staying at Al-Quds Hospital. They are telling me that there's a bombardment every five minutes around the hospital, which is not only hosting patients and our teams, but there is about 2,000 to 3,000 people would have fled and are staying at the hospital.

[18:30:05]

Smoke and dust from that bombing is getting into the hospital. Yesterday our colleagues told us that they are running out of food. We managed to get some bread from Khan Younis in the south to Gaza City. Food and water is running out. Medicine and obviously fuel, we have been saying that we only have fuel for a few days, today I can say that we only have fuel maybe for tomorrow and after tomorrow. And you know, without fuel, the hospitals will not function.

BURNETT: Right. Right. Obviously you can't even run a generator. So you're saying tomorrow or perhaps the day after.

Marwan, of course I'm not going to speak to that specific hospital, but as you know Israel says that there is an extensive network of tunnels underneath Gaza and that Hamas militants put those tunnels and their arms and arsenals and headquarters underneath civilian targets like hospitals, like schools. What do you say to that and that -- and that horrific possibility that that puts out there? JILANI: Look, we are a humanitarian organization. We care and our

mission is to serve humanity and to provide the humanitarian assistance and medical attention to those people who are wounded and who are sick. We are seeing every minute that passes by more civilian people are killed. Children, women, and elderly people. Normal civilian people who have sought refuge.

You know, this evening we had a call with one of our colleagues who fled as was told, who evacuated to the south in Rafah. He was worried, he said my wife didn't come back home. I'm going to go out and look for her. A couple of hours later, he comes back to us and he said, my son has been killed and my wife is critically injured.

These are people. These are civilians. Every minute that passes, there are more lives lost. And we appeal to the humanity of the world. We still believe in humanity. Nothing, nothing, nothing justifies this tragedy, the killing of civilians on both sides.

BURNETT: There are, we understand, trucks of aid stranded at that Rafah border, Marwan. The Gaza-Egypt border. What do you say to Egypt? Egypt of course controls that border. It's a complicated situation. But what do you say to the Egyptian President El-Sisi?

JILANI: Well, let me be very clear here. Israel is the occupying power. And under international law, and this is also the statement from the International Committee of the Red Cross, and the international law, Israel has the responsibility to protect and care for civilians that are under its control. Then, I think all countries around have sent aid. They are waiting for the border to open. But as I said, this evening our colleague was killed in Rafah near the border.

A convoy of people who were fleeing to the south were killed and targeted. The Rafah border was bombarded a couple of days ago itself. So I think in order for aid to get in, we need a cease-fire. We need a secession of hostilities and that is critical for aid to come in from Egypt, from Israel, and we understand that Israel is also ready and has access through the southern border to allow for trucks to get in. We have trucks ready to go from those bank to Gaza and this needs Israel's permission.

BURNETT: Yes. Of course to pass from the West Bank to Gaza through Israel itself.

Marwan, is this the worst humanitarian situation you've seen in Gaza?

JILANI: Believe me, it is far worse than anything we have seen. We've been -- throughout this conflict, unfortunately we've seen many wars, many escalation of violence and hostilities. But we're never seen in a couple of days a couple of thousands of people are killed, that vast destruction throughout Gaza is immense. We've never seen something like this. We have -- we have went through wars. 2008, '09, 2011, '14, '21, '22, but this is unprecedented. Unprecedented.

[18:35:13]

BURNETT: Marwan Jilani, thank you very much. We appreciate your time and your perspective.

And the real question, of course, in the context of all of this and the complications and all those tunnels underground, underground, it's civilian installations that's been the point for Hamas. What will a ground invasion of Gaza actually look like? And what dangers could civilians and Israel face?

That's next as CNN's special coverage continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: Israeli armored vehicles are now staging near the border with Gaza in anticipation of what Israel calls significant ground operations. Israeli Defense Forces are urging civilians in Gaza to evacuate their homes and head south ahead of a potential ground operation against Hamas, but the dense urban setting and growing humanitarian crisis in the Gaza Strip may pose greater challenges for any operation.

And joining me now to talk about this, retired Major John Spencer. He's the chair of the Urban Warfare Studies at the Madison Policy Forum. Major -- he's also the author of the book "Connected Soldiers."

Major, you know, we've been looking at the same live images of Gaza over the last couple of days. It is eerily quiet there.

[18:40:03]

There are a lot of I guess expectations that this might get going. Is it possible, because of the intricacies, because of the dangers, because of how things can just go sideways, in an urban combat type of situation, a lot of comparisons have been made to Fallujah and Iraq during the Iraq war, that the Israelis perhaps have slowed things down a little bit, and they're just taking extra care in putting together their battle plans. What do you think?

MAJ. JOHN SPENCER (RET.), U.S. ARMY: Well, I think they've been planning for this -- the contingency of this operation for years. So I think that's a big difference from our operations in, you know, in Iraq and other places, where they are limited. Even in the second battle of Fallujah, we had six months to prepare.

I think Israel has been prepared for this contingency, although nobody wanted it to happen, for years. And I think the better comparison is that 2017 Battle of Mosul against ISIS where 100,000 Iraqi Security Forces, not as trained as the IDF, but nine months destroyed most of the city, 10,000 civilian casualties. Once that close fight happens and I think this is what we're potentially could see, I know there's been 250 targets executed today against Hamas military targets, but in order to enter and clear the urban areas, the stated Israeli mission, to remove that Hamas military capability, that bombing will go to thousands of rounds per day in order to support the close fight that would have to happen.

ACOSTA: Right. And Major, I mean, as we're all waiting for this ground incursion to get started, I mean, it is worth reminding folks, we have seen massive amount of destruction inside Gaza from those strikes. That is already taken place. We're already seeing repercussions of that. But once this gets going, you have the presence of hospital patients. We saw some of these in a report from our Scott McLean earlier.

There were doctors talking about how there are kids on ventilators, how are we supposed to move the kids? When you have hospital patients you have potential hostages in an area? Foreign nationals obviously who can't get out of Gaza. How does that all of that complicate the situation and that operation for the Israeli Defense Forces?

SPENCER: It absolutely increases the complication of what targets you can and can't engage. Protected populations, protected sites. But the problem is that both sides have the legal obligation to do everything feasible to protect civilian life. It's not to say that if the hospitals stay open, that it's going to be destroyed. That's just not true. You can execute even the highest intensity and we saw this in the battle of Mosul fights.

And there was actually a major battle over the hospital in which the Iraqi Security Forces had these white phosphorous which became international media attention to cover the movement of a battalion attack where ISIS was using the hospital as one of their refuges. It is possible but it increases the risk to much more civilian casualties if they stay in the environment when this battle actually starts. I mean, it has started. We're in the early phases of it.

ACOSTA: Yes. And Hamas is going to use civilians as a human shield. I mean, that is part of the reason why they said they didn't want people leaving the northern part of Gaza. And adding to that complexity, you also have this extensive tunnel system around Gaza. That's going to be a problem as well, I imagine.

SPENCER: Absolutely. That is -- what we're seeing, to me, as a student of all major urban battles of history isn't ahistorical. This is, as you said, we've seen this before. But the levels of preparation, the decades of tunnels underneath Gaza City and others, it's not just, you know, connecting the house to here. But I mean, they go deep and deep into the earth and there's bunkers, and there's civilians and there's hostages. This significantly increases the difficulty, the combat and hill for anybody going in there.

ACOSTA: And just finally, Major, I mean, would you advise the Israelis at this point to conduct this large-scale operation that everybody is anticipating given all of the problems that can arise with an urban combat environment? Might they get bogged down? Is that a concern that they need to be mindful of and plan for?

SPENCER: So I've spent a lot of time actually touring all militaries around the world studying how they approach urban warfare. I don't offer advice. I learn from them. I do do training and one of the biggest forces in the world who's prepared for entering a contested environment like this is the IDF. But of course there is no bloodless war. They'll take a lot of casualties and I think they know that.

ACOSTA: All right, Major John Spencer, thank you very much for your time and expertise. We appreciate it.

In the meantime, it's been eight days since an Israeli woman told her son she was heading to a safe room when the Hamas attack started. She has not been heard from since. We'll talk to her son when our special coverage continues in just a moment. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:48:42]

ACOSTA: Breaking news. This just into CNN, for the first time since the terror attack last Saturday in Israel, the president of the Palestinian Authority, President Mahmoud Abass, is condemning the deadly Hamas attack in Israel. Abbas says actions do not, quote, "represent the Palestinian people," end quote. His comments were made in a phone call with the president of Venezuela. We'll have more on all of this in just a few moments. So stay with us on that.

In the meantime, the mother of Noam Sagi was kidnapped from Nir Oz Kibbutz when Hamas invaded Israel eight days ago. They were supposed to celebrate her 75th birthday together in London. But she called him saying she was headed to her safe room. That is the last time that he heard from her. And Noam Sagi joins us now.

I just want to offer my thoughts to you. I can't imagine what you and your family are going through right now. Really appreciate you joining us to talk about this. Have you heard any new information since you last heard from your mother? What can you tell us?

NOAM SAGI, MOTHER TAKEN HOSTAGE FROM NIR OZ KIBBUTZ: First, thank you, Jim, for inviting me. I think all the details you presented are correct and we didn't hear since. So that was the last time we heard was that 7th of October of that Saturday morning. That's it.

[18:50:05]

ACOSTA: And what do you know right now? Just that she's gone? She's missing?

SAGI: That's it. That's it. As much as we know, we can speculate, we can -- so what happened was that we know for sure that she was very distressed because she saw people outside of her house. She went into the safe room. This is a safe room that in the kibbutz everybody have, which is designed to protect them from shelling. And she went in. You can't lock this safe room.

So in reality, she was probably fighting, holding the door handle. Some people held that handle for eight hours. But she's, you know, as you said, nearly 75, and supposed to be to celebrate her 75th birthday. And she probably was fighting three, four men, so she didn't really stand a chance, if that was the case.

ACOSTA: And you don't even know if she's alive at this point.

SAGI: No. So when the army arrived at 6:00 Israel time and they went into her house with a medical team, it was only bloodstains. She was not there. We know she is not on the dead list, she is not on the injured list and she is not on the rescued list. That's all we know.

ACOSTA: I'm just so terribly sorry. Noam, what do you want us to know about your mother?

SAGI: I think, you know, it's a week now and still it's hard to believe what really happened. I think it's a real weakness because you cannot imagine humanity anywhere capable of doing what really happened in the kibbutz. So to answer your question, what I want is to recognize that what we need to do now, without immediate effect and with no hesitation is to open humanitarian corridor, to release immediately all the under 18s and over 65.

According to the international law and the human code, and you know, they cannot be part of this. They just cannot be part of that, in a world where we accept that we all share that anyone's values of life is not more important than others. It is just absolutely unimaginable that kids, 9-month-old babies and kids, and elderly, frail, taken under mobility scooters, some of them with cancer, some of them with Parkinson's.

It's the longest trip they had to take for a long time. All the way past the border and into Gaza. They need to be out now. Not because they're Israelis or Jewish or not because they're anything. It's because we're human. And as humans, that is the basic code of conduct that we expect from anyone on this planet. There are some things you don't do. And if you do them, you cannot be part of what is going on here.

So I want to use the platform. I want you and I want everyone to look inside themselves and check in with themselves. Where are they stand? When people celebrate this, they celebrate the pain that these guys try to inflict on me and my family.

ACOSTA: What would you like to see happen next, Noam?

SAGI: I want to see a humanitarian corridor now. And I want to see the release of all the hostages, of course, now, immediately, without any conditions.

ACOSTA: Well, if we can --

SAGI: We're talking about humanitarian crisis. We're talking about everything that has happened. And I'm telling you, I grew up in this area, and when I grew up there we used to go to the beach, through Gaza, into LRH, in Egypt. In the '70s, it was peaceful, it was nice.

[18:55:03]

It can be like that. I don't think the people of Gaza wants that. I don't think the Palestinian people in Gaza needs that. They are being played. The media are being played. The students in universities are being played. All the people who go to the streets now in protest are being played. This is part of the plan. They planned this for so long. For so long. Do you think the plan finished when they left Israel with old people and young kids? The plan go much bigger than that. And wider than that. This is all

part of a very big plan. It's not taking the Gazans into the most important of, you know, life that we need to protect.

ACOSTA: Yes.

SAGI: And it's not taking Israelis, of course. So I like to see civilians, people in the heart and the center of every action that happened now.

ACOSTA: Well, Noam, we really appreciate your time and sharing the story of your mother. If we can show her picture one more time just in case there's any chance whatsoever that somebody has seen her and can communicate with Israeli authorities and with yourself about her whereabouts.

SAGI: Listen, you know, my mom had a hip operation not long ago. She is not going around, you know, looking for any -- I would be very surprised if I hear from any of your viewers any information about her. I wish, I really wish.

ACOSTA: I wish, too. I wish, too.

SAGI: I would be very, very happy if that would be the case. She is not in a tree and she is not wandering about for sure.

ACOSTA: No, I understand. I understand. Noam, we really appreciate your time and sharing your mother's story and getting these pictures out there. I hope and pray that you get a positive conclusion to all of this, that she comes home.

SAGI: Yes. Thank you, I appreciate that, Jim. Thank you very much. I really want to say one thing. These people, this community, marginalized in Israel for the tenacity around what they still believe that peace is possible. Some of them would be OK dying for peace, for sure, they won't be OK dying for war.

ACOSTA: Thank you, Noam. Thank you.

SAGI: I'm calling anyone with heart to do anything they can to demand humanity, to stand up for moral code and these people need to be released now.

ACOSTA: One hundred percent.

SAGI: And thank you, Jim. I'm taking your time.

ACOSTA: No, no. My heart goes out to you. Our hearts go out to you. I hope you find some peace. I hope she comes home. We really appreciate your time. We'll be praying for you. Thank you so much.

SAGI: Thank you.

ACOSTA: We'll be right back.

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