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CNN International: Israel: Preparing For Combined, Coordinated Strikes; Gaza Residents Flee As IDF Readies For Next Stage Of War; IDF: Fighter Jet Hits Hezbollah Infrastructure In Lebanon; Blinken: Rafah Crossing Will Be Open; Pro-Palestinian Rallies Taking Place Around The World; U.N. Chief: Middle East Is "On The Verge Of The Abyss". Aired 5-6p ET
Aired October 15, 2023 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[17:00:31]
ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Hello, and welcome everyone. I'm Isa Soares coming to you from London.
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Hello, I'm Becky Anderson in Tel Aviv. Welcome to our breaking coverage of the "War in Israel."
Well, Israel's military says it is preparing for the next stage of its war with Hamas. It's expected to involve coordinated strikes from air, sea and land, but Israel has not yet given an indication when it might begin.
In Gaza though, deadly Israeli airstrikes do continue to fall the IDF's latest update saying, it's at 250 targets in Gaza today. And Hamas commander they say was killed. For civilians living in fear and under a complete blockade, aid workers are warning that the situation has now descended into complete catastrophe and adding to the misery. Israel's Weather Service warning that intensifying thunderstorms are expected to hit Israel and Gaza in the coming hours.
SOARES: Well, tens of thousands have already fled northern Gaza hoping to find safety in the south. Many though are not finding that safety in the crucial Rafah crossing you can see in your map there on the border with Egypt is still close. And right now, there's nowhere for these refugees to go and no way for aid to get in. We'll have much more in the desperate situation in Gaza in just a moment.
Meantime, America's top diplomat Antony Blinken has been meeting regional leaders and that includes those from Egypt, Saudi Arabia as well as the UAE. He vowed that the Rafah checkpoint will be open to humanitarian aid, but critically didn't say when that will happen. And that, of course, Becky, is the question that so many are asking right now. I know you've spoken to NGOs, we've been speaking to NGOs, as well, as well, as too many of family members of geo nationals are waiting for some sort of clarity as to what will happen, can they get out can aid go in? And that's the clarity we're not getting at the moment as we cover the spiraling humanitarian situation on the ground in Gaza. ANDERSON: That's right and this Rafah crossing, which is to the south, at the bottom of Gaza, it's the crossing with Egypt is a real sort of priority at this point, getting humanitarian aid in -- humanitarian aid that is sitting on the Egypt side of the border and more to come, from the UAE from Jordan, fuel, medical supplies, food aid, getting that into Southern Gaza, and then up into the areas where people have been fleeing to, they've been there -- Israelis have demanded that Gazans go south into the Gaza valley to what, to what sort of facilities? What are they going to find there? What sort of supplies are there? This is a country which is -- sorry, an enclave, which is under a total siege at present. And we are hearing real words of condemnation about that Israeli siege.
Now, just in the past couple of hours, Jordan's King has been speaking to the UK Prime Minister and during that chat, he said denying food, water and electricity to innocent civilians in Gaza is a war crimes. That -- those the words of the of the King of Jordan. We also know that there is huge pressure on Egypt to get that border open to ensure that U.S. and other Jew (ph) citizens can get out into Egypt that way. And there have been enormous amount of pressure, to also temporarily house Gazan Palestinians in the Sinai, this is not something that Egypt wants. And this is sort of lies at a real sort of heart of the issue that we have with this wrath of border crossing the present Egypt, it seemed perfectly happy to see humanitarian aid going in, the IDF blaming Hamas for not opening the Gaza side of that crossing.
But what the Egyptians and the Jordanians have said is a red line is the fleeing of Palestinians into either Egypt or then down into Jordan and which they see as a huge security risks. They don't have the facilities to accommodate people. This is a national security and quite frankly a risk for their economies when they are in such dire straits. We think about the swindling impact of the more than million Syrian refugees and Iraqi refugees that are being hosted by Jordan at present. Both countries have now officially used the term, no, this is a red line, we will not have the force displacement of people through that border and temporarily asked to be housed in either Jordan or Egypt. So, it's really, really difficult at present.
[17:05:32]
Let's get up into northern Gaza. We know 500,000 people will say we've already moved out of Northern Gaza, being told to do so by the Israelis.
CNN's Scott McLean has this report now on how one city in Gaza, south of Israel's evacuation line is coping. And I do need to warn you, Scott's report does contain some graphic images.
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SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is the frantic scene outside of hospital in the city of Deir al-Balah. Constant wail of sirens and a steady stream of children carry desperately inside. Some bandage, some seeming alert, others not moving at all.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As this target, as this a real target for Israel, this toddler.
MCLEAN (voice-over): On Sunday, people in that same city gathered to pray over bodies, but white and loaded onto a flatbed truck.
Deir al-Balah located south of the evacuation line declared by Israel and Gaza was hit again on Sunday. Afterwards heavy machine shift the slabs of concrete hoping perhaps in vain to find survivors.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translation): There are women or children, children, children.
MCLEAN (voice-over): Across Gaza, Israel says it hit more than 100 military targets overnight and more on Sunday. In the aftermath of each people rush to frantically find victims never far from danger. This video from Gaza City shows the sheer chaos as distraught men, women and children try to figure out what to do and where to go next.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translation): It is as you can see destruction, destruction. They are destroying us.
(FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
MCLEAN (voice-over): Even hospitals like this children's hospital had been told to evacuate from Northern Gaza. But with newborn babies and children on ventilators, doctors say they can't.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translation): Where will these children go? They're on ventilators. And it's not possible to move them.
MCLEAN (voice-over): The World Health Organization said it strongly condemns Israel's repeated orders for the evacuation of 22 hospitals treating more than 2,000 inpatients in northern Gaza, saying forcing the evacuation of patients south could be tantamount to a death sentence.
Across Gaza, aid groups say that food and fuel are running desperately low. The UN says most people already lack access to water.
Foreign aid is being sent by the plane load and the truckload to Egypt in hopes of getting it into Gaza. But Egypt and Palestinians on the ground say the roads near the border are too badly damaged from airstrikes for trucks to pass. In Sunday, CNN asked the IDF whether it was coordinating with aid groups to ensure that supplies get in.
LT. COL. PETER LEMER, IDF SPOKESPERSON: The IDF and the defense ministry are engaged with the international community, to try and facilitate various different things. You know, I think we need to leave -- I speak on behalf of the IDF so we are deeply involved in the combat, we are the warriors we need to leave the diplomacy for the diplomats. MCLEAN (voice-over): In just eight days, the death toll in Gaza has already surpassed the number of people killed in the 2014 conflict, which lasted 51 days. And with an Israeli ground invasion looming and supplies running low, there is little hope that things will soon get better for the people of Gaza.
Scott McLean, CNN.
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ANDERSON: Well, it has got a bit of insight into what may happen next. Martin Indyk is joining us now is a lowly distinguished fellow with the Council on Foreign Relations.
I mean Martin is -- has been imbued in the politics and the machinations of this region for more than 30 years and former U.S. ambassador to Israel. It's good to get your perspective here.
Just firstly, very briefly, what's your take on what is happening on the ground and why it is that the Israelis seem to have hitting the pause button somewhat on this expected sort of massive incursion from land, sea and air?
[17:10:07]
MARTIN INDYK, DISTINGUISHED FELLOW, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATION: Well, I'm looking at it from the outside. But on the basis of the five rounds of Israeli-Hamas conflict that we've been through over the years, I would say that the Israelis are essentially revving the tanks with this massive buildup on the border to unsettle Hamas to get the sense that they're about, about to be clobbered. At the same time, allowing time for the Palestinian civilians, to leave, because the most important thing from the Israeli point of view is when they go in to try to uproot the Hamas militias, they don't want to have to be dealing with civilians, who are heavily in these heavily populated areas.
So that's the reason why Hamas is telling them to stay and why Israel, the time delay, it's because they want to get them out of the area of conflict. Israel doesn't have any real pressure to move at the moment. And they've got to also consider their hostages and American hostages that are in Gaza. And that complicates their operations.
So, I think that they're not on any kind of stopwatch here, but could go at any minute when they think that the area's clear enough. And they've got a clear enough shot at Hamas militias.
ANDERSON: Meantime, I do want that how much pressure you believe the U.S. is putting on Israel at this point? On the back of what has been, you know, a very, very whistle top -- stop listening tour by the US Secretary of State Antony Blinken into Egypt, Jordan, into the Gulf where he has pretty much heard a coordinated message, de-escalate, or the rejection of the forced displacement of people in Gaza. The region wants to see a ceasefire. This is at odds with the language that we heard from the U.S. only four or five days ago, and indications from our reporting that there had been, you know, the use of the term calm things down ceasefire, de-escalate, had not been terms that the State Department had wanted to sort of circulate. But they've certainly heard that concerted message from the region.
How much pressure is the region putting on the U.S. to feed back to the Israelis? To avoid what they see, is this spilling out in the first instance, to avoid the massive loss of life and the humanitarian catastrophe on the ground in Gaza? But then this spilling out, not just to the West Bank and to Lebanon, but to the wider region?
INDYK: Yes, I think it's ironic that they're calling for things to calm down. That was the American language for the last three years. Didn't get us very far. But the basic point that you make Becky is I think absolutely right, that, that the United States is now hearing from our Arab friends and allies, that we really need to find a way to prevent the civilian casualties involved now, on the Palestinian side, as opposed to be atrocious casualties that occurred on the Israeli side, that the United States has to find a way to kind of avoid massive casualties, because that's going to create problems in these Arab states with their populations.
So far, there haven't been massive demonstrations, large ones in Iraq, but elsewhere, you know, it hasn't been a major issue, but I think they're walking on eggshells here. And they want the United States to get Israel on the one hand, to do what it has to do with Hamas. They're no friends and Hamas by any means. But on the other hand, to protect -- to get them to avoid civilian casualties as much as possible. And the United States is using its influence, just appointed a special envoy for Humanitarian Affairs. Somebody I think, you know, well, David Satterfield (ph) who's, who's going out there, it's going to work this with Egypt.
And I expect that the unit the Israelis are listening, they're not behaving in the normal way of going in. And without the same regard from civilian casualties. So, they do seem to be aware that they've got to handle this in a more careful way before they go in with a major offensive.
ANDERSON: What do you make of both Egypt and Jordan now saying they have a red line when it comes to the displacement of people through that Egypt border? The suggestion by some in the U.S. that, you know, half a million people should be hosted temporarily in Egypt and possibly in Jordan? We are also hearing the very liberal use of the term and I use that term loosely but the liberal use of the term, this forcible displacement of people is a war crime.
[17:15:16]
INDYK: So, I think that that, you know, well, Becky, that the Palestinians are different to the Iraqis or the Syrians that have been refugees in the past. The sensitivity is, is because neither Egypt nor Jordan wants Israel two to foist the Palestinians on them. And they want to avoid as much as possible, an arrangement where they have to take responsibility for the Palestinians. It's Israel's problem, as far as they're concerned. For Jordan, which already has a majority Palestinian population. It's deeply destabilizing. But I don't think there's a real risk there at the moment that, that there's going to be a major refugee movement into Jordan. For Egypt, they don't want -- they could take it's a big country, they could take up to million, 2 million refugees, Palestinian refugees, temporarily, if they really had to, but the security dangers for them in Sinai, which has been very problematic for them a lot of smuggling, a lot of jihad has associated elements in there. And I think they're, they're very reluctant to have a large Palestinian population coming in. That's different two, dual nationals, Americans, I think they will arrange in the next day or two, to have all of them come out.
But they don't want the Palestinians coming across the border, if they can possibly avoid it. And that's why they talk about it a red light.
ANDERSON: Martin, you're also right to point out that the attack nine days ago at 6:30 in the morning, was monstrous. It was a massacre. There is no other way of describing it. And you know, when I talk to people here, there is a collective sense in -- and Isa and I were discussing this there is a collective sense of sort of collective trauma here. It seems this is a small place, it seems every Israeli knows either somebody who was murdered, or somebody who is now serving at the border, you know, anticipating what happens next. And there is a real sense of shock, fear, since they've been let down by the government and this is certainly what I'm hearing here in Tel Aviv. This is a city that has been protesting this most right-wing government ever in Israel's history for months and months and months. What happens next, of course, is still the unknown.
Martin, it's always good to have you, your insight and analysis so valuable at this point. Thank you.
INDYK: Thank you, Becky.
ANDERSON: Isa?
SOARES: Well, the hour as we've been reporting throughout the hour, the UN says no one was hurt after a rocket hit its peacekeepers headquarters in Southern Lebanon. UN officials say they're still trying to determine where the rocket was launched from but there was an intense exchange of fire on Lebanon's border with Israel earlier. We're also getting an update from the Israel Defense Forces.
The IDF says its fighter jets hit Hezbollah military infrastructure in Lebanon early on Sunday and uptaken clashes with Hezbollah is raising fears that the conflict could spread.
Ben Wedeman joins us live from Southern Lebanon. And Ben clearly tensions on the northern border with Lebanon continuing to increase. Just bring us up to date with the very latest. What have you seen?
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, definitely there are worries that this could be a new front in this war. Now what we've seen in the last few hours is that Israeli drone and Israeli drone struck a position just to the southwest of here. According to the Lebanese official news agency, it hit near in a Lebanese army base. However, there were no casualties in that instance. Now what we've seen throughout the rest of the day, is a series of strikes by Hezbollah on Israeli military positions with you're really right on the other side of the border, right smack up against it. Hezbollah has been targeting communications observations and surveillance facilities in these military bases, in addition to some communities as well. We understand from the Israeli medical services that one Israeli civilian was killed, several others were injured in a strike.
Now the Israelis have been heading back with artillery and airstrikes. We understand that however, in the afternoon, that there was a volley of rockets fired into Israel. It was intercepted by and large by the Iron Dome, although we are hearing and there were some civilian casualties on that end. But that strike was claimed not by Hezbollah but rather than the military wing of Hamas. Isa?
[17:20:12]
SOARES: Ben Wedeman for us there in southern Lebanon. Thanks very much, Ben.
While the IDF tells CNN it is seeing a strong flow of people moving out of Northern Gaza. Some people in southern Israel are also getting out of their homes ahead of a possible invasion. I'm going to go straight to CNN's Nic Robertson in Sderot where people are getting on the road heading to other parts of the country.
And Nic, just give us a sense of how many people are being asked to move on where they're going?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Well, the UN estimates citizen about 1.1 million people that live in the north of Gaza, and they've been told to move to the south. President (INAUDIBLE) -- sorry, President, the President of Israel said earlier on today that he thought that there should be a safe humanity -- humanitarian space created for them in the south of Gaza. The diplomatic pressure at the moment is on Israel -- is on Egypt rather, to let them into Egypt. Of course, that is a political decision for the President of Egypt, President Sisi and it's not one that he wants to take. He doesn't want to have the liability of several million potentially Palestinians in Egypt, he would see that as destabilizing he would see it as well as the Palestinian problem if you will, being shunted on to Egypt.
So, for the Palestinians who are in Gaza, at the moment, there's no place to go apart from move towards the south. And that is not necessarily safe. The UN agencies are telling us that the hospitals are right capacity. They're saying that one UN agency is saying at least that they're running out of body bags, that there are shortages of water that the food is in short supply. The situation, the humanitarian situation in Gaza, at the moment, according to the UN agencies there on the ground is an absolutely desperate situation on this side of the border. The preparations are being made and we went to see them today with the IDF. The preparations are being made for a possible grounding cushion. We were with troops and fields who were training for that moment where they possibly get the order to go in, they were lining up their vehicles. It was a combined military force, you had tanks, you had infantry, you had as well combat engineers.
So, they were practicing for the moment, they're told to go in that they can, that they can sort of move off in a convoy together. And as well, we saw them practicing some IDF troops, practicing and in a mocked up Palestinian town, it had mosques, it had stores, it had houses, and they were training for combat in an urban environment. And while we were there, I said to one of the officers there who would be first in with the troops. I said, you know, Hamas, as you know, is telling the civilians not to leave the north of Gaza. If you go in, there's a potential for civilians to be there. And he said like, the IDF is a professional force. We don't target civilians, we target the terrorists there. These were his words. He said that, you know, because there could be civilians that that will make it very, very difficult.
But I also spoke to an IDF spokesman and he told me, look, if that Hamas tells the civilians not to leave, then the responsibility for civilians, if troops go in will be with Hamas, not with the IDF.
So, it will be a very, very tough and difficult situation for the civilians and for the troops. And we talked earlier today with a -- with an IDF soldier who was first -- one of the first into Gaza in 2014, the last time there was an incursion, and he said yes, we encountered civilians, and this was a combat zone. And that was a very difficult place to operate in that environment, Isa.
SOARES: Very much very complicated with all the civilians but also of course, the 155 according to IDF hostages were being taken.
Nic Robertson for us there, appreciate it. Thank you very much, Nic.
We're going to take a short break. We're going to be back after this.
You're watching CNN.
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[17:26:23]
ANDERSON: Welcome back. I'm Becky Anderson in Tel Aviv.
U.S. diplomacy is central to trying to de-escalate the war between Israel and Hamas and the world is watching as America's top diplomat does the round. U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken has said repeatedly Israel has the right to defend itself. But that's not all he's saying.
Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: The way that Israel does these matters, needs to do it in a way that affirms the shared values that we have for human life and human dignity, taking every possible precaution to avoid harming civilians.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, its part Cairo, facing pressure to open a humanitarian corridor into Gaza and Antony Blinken is promising that that Rafah crossing between Gaza and Egypt will be opened. It's seen as the only feasible route to get aid in while there is total siege by Israel, of all of the other borders, to get people in -- sorry, to get aid in and people out of Gaza, including Americans.
Well CNN's Hada Gold live for us in Washington.
Let's start there. We have sadly just heard that the number of Americans killed in Israel in the past nine days in that deadly attack on Saturday has risen to 30. What do we understand to be going on as far as these U.S. citizens are concerned, getting them out of Gaza at this point?
HADAS GOLD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, from what we understand, I believe that there's at least a dozen American citizens who are being held hostage in Gaza. Speaking about the hostages, now these might be Israeli-American citizens, people who hold dual citizenship and again, it's still very unclear where these hostages are, where they're being held. And we of course don't have the exact identities of who they are.
Now regarding Palestinian Americans in Gaza, there is of course intensive efforts to try and get them out and the key in all of this in Gaza is Rafah. Rafah is the key here because if that border can be open, and there are -- there is another border nearby, which on that map, you can see Kerem Shalom crossing, but I think Rafah will be the key one, because if that border can -- that border crossing can be open, not only could potentially civilians leave, especially those who have dual citizenship, but then aid can also enter. We know from all these aid agencies from the UN from others, they are ready and waiting. There are trucks waiting right by the border waiting to get in. And there are civilians, as we've seen from those images, just waiting by the border, because they were actually advised by the State Department, by the Americans go to Rafah crossing, get as close as you can, because it might open with absolutely no warning.
And we know there are intensive efforts underway by Secretary of State Antony Blinken, by others to try and get this open as much as possible. But there's a lot of considerations in play here. There's Egypt. There's Hamas. There's of course, Israel as well. Israeli concerns as well.
Now, Antony Blinken has said, Rafah will be open, it's just a question of when that will happen. We've heard that it may happen as early as next morning as early as in the next coming hours. And I can only imagine that those families sitting there by the border, they will not be leaving that area, because the moment it opens, they will want to get out and Israel. Of course, will have its own concerns about the people who are getting out through Rafah and of course the aid coming in, and what will be in that aid, potentially they will want to have some sort of reassurances that they will not be, you know, things that could be hidden within that aid, that aid that could potentially be going to Hamas. But I do think that the words we're hearing from the Secretary of State, from Antony Blinken, what that that sound by that you played about with him right outside the plane, essentially, that's the indication to Israel, that the time might be running out, that the need, the humanitarian need in Gaza is so large that they need to turn, you know, all the things back on. They've said that turn the water back on, there's still a little bit of confusion about whether the water is actually flowing, but the electricity, the aid needs to come in, the fuel needs to come in, because essentially, the international pressure is only building further and further, you will still get American support, I think in terms of the military operation, in terms of even boots on the ground, especially in Northern Gaza.
[17:30:32]
But when it comes to the humanitarian situation, of course, people -- the civilians in Gaza are facing such a huge crisis, that the pressure will only build even further on Israel to at least turn on some of those provisions into Gaza to help the civilians survive.
ANDERSON: And he has heard a coordinated message from regional leaders who he has met over the past couple of days, decrying this forced displacement of people describing that as a war crime. And the King of Jordan himself just in the past couple of hours, suggesting it is a war crime to deny food, electricity, fuel and supplies into a Gaza.
So, look, I think, I think you're very, you're very right to point out then in the coming hours, be interesting to see, you know, how things develop on the ground. As of course we await to see how long this pause is in Israel's expected incursion. And it was described to me by the IDF earlier as Israel being patient at this point, but their patients will run out.
CNN's Hadas Gold is in Washington, D.C. Thank you.
Well, still to come tonight, rallies in cities from Sydney to New York voicing support for the Palestinian people. More on that in just a moment.
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ANDERSON: Scenes of chaos and devastation continue to unfold in Gaza. Tens of thousands of people are on the move southwards despite the threats of aerial bombardment. And groups are warning that they will soon run out of food, water and medical supplies. This is very, very real. There are warnings that those supplies literally will just last days at this point, and we are talking about the displacement of some 1 million people and those are those that are going south. Of course, there are many who stay in the north in Gaza City.
The U.S. Secretary of State said earlier that he believes the Rafah border crossing between Gaza and Egypt will be opened, while Israel says it is working with the UN to establish a humanitarian zone in the Gaza enclave. But an aid official says the situation has already become a complete catastrophe. [17:35:19]
Within the last hour, I spoke with Jan Egeland, who is the Secretary General of the Norwegian Refugee Council. He has been imbued in what is going on in this region for years. The Council appealing to Israel to withdraw its order for people in northern Gaza, to move south. They ask them to rescind that order. That was some 48 hours ago, he told me what he is hearing from people inside Gaza.
Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAN EGELAND, SECRETARY GENERAL, NORWEGIAN REFUGEE COUNCIL: They described an increasingly desperate situation. Several of them fled south from Gaza where we have headquarters, Gaza City that come back. It was so hopeless in the south, it was so overcrowded, there was no supplies, there was nowhere to stay. There was no security in the south. So, they came back and said we'd rather die with a minimum of dignity here in our own homes in Gaza City, than go south.
That's the nature of this horrific situation in the besieged enclave, which is smaller than a Norwegian municipality, where 2.3 million civilians are held, 1 million of them are children.
ANDERSON (on-camera): Yes, and you've been calling for the Israelis to reverse their demand that civilians flee south. Frankly, that has not happened. And they continue to demand that those who haven't left, go now. And as we understand it, we've been told the numbers are about 600,000. I'm not sure whether your staff have been able to stand those sorts of figures up.
But does that suggest to you that despite a chorus of calls from around this region and beyond now to stop any further military action that this pause in a full-scale attack is likely just that a pause at this point, and however long that might be? What is the likely fallout if we are looking at a full-scale invasion at some point?
EGELAND: Well, if we're looking at continued bombardment of civilian housing, and then a ground invasion into a heavily urbanized area, and hundreds and hundreds of thousands will not and cannot leave. What about the patients in the hospitals? What about the elderly? What about the disabled? What about the widows with no car, no fuel, no transport? It will be filled to the brim with very, very vulnerable people that we all agree is rarely Americans, the rest of the world agreed that the children of Gaza have bear no responsibility for the atrocious horrific terror in Israel.
So, it will be a bloodbath.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: Jan Egeland speaking to all their candidates (ph) and just a while ago in the last hour, in fact.
While people in all sorts of countries have taken to the streets to show support for Palestinian people. At this gathering in Sydney, Australia, there were calls for peace and justice and condemnation of Israel's military action against Gaza. In other countries like France and Germany, pro-Palestinian demonstrations have been banned.
Our Melissa Bell joins us now for the very latest from Paris. And Melissa, just explain how large these rallies have been and why some governments, some authorities have decided to ban them.
MELISSA BELL, CNN PARIS CORRESPONDENT: Well, there have been pretty big rallies. And of course, when you look at the countries in which they've happened, it isn't across the Muslim world that they've been most significant in terms of size. It was the Friday that was of course the biggest day that saw them, but they've been happening on other days. In particular look at these pictures from London on Saturday that thousands of people took to the streets. There were some clashes, several people detained.
But as you say, Isa, countries like France and Germany simply not taking any risks. They have banned them and in fact, with a phone call between the French President today and the Iranian President, the Iranian President criticized France's decision to ban the protests.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Palestine will be free!
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKERS (in unison): Palestine will be free!
BELL (voice-over): In Sydney thousands turned out to express solidarity with Palestinians and oppose Israel's military action in Gaza. The police out in full force as well, with organizers warning that anti-Semitic behavior that had been seen in previous protests would not be welcome. No signs of that chaos here. But the crowds' message to the Palestinian people was loud and clear.
[17:40:02]
LIQAA, DEMONSTRATOR: What's the protests going to do except spread awareness and support. We haven't -- we have no legitimize, legalized any enforceable power to do anything to protect them. Shame on the government who do and don't do anything.
BELL (voice-over): Pro-Palestinian rallies have been held in cities around the world, in France and Germany, where they had been banned. Demonstrators gathered, regardless.
Some of the largest rallies for Palestinians were held in the Arab world. Thousands attended a rally in Turkey, where crowds vented anger at both Israel and the United States. Similar scenes of solidarity in Pakistan.
SALMA REHEEL QAZI, DEMONSTRATOR: We are saying from our rallies and all over the Pakistan, that Palestinians are not alone.
BELL (voice-over): And in Tunisia, anger that more is not being done to protect Palestinians. SAHER ELMASRI, GAZAN LIVING IN TUNIS (through translation): My people are facing extermination and Gaza is being devastated. Where's the international community? Where are the Arabs? Where's the Arab conscience?
BELL (voice-over): In Tokyo, a smaller crowd that has similar pee (ph).
AWEED SADEED, DEMONSTRATOR: And I can hear that (INAUDIBLE) that we are united, now we Muslims, they are very tired of war and everyone is tired of conflicts, and everyone wants justice.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BELL: Now, of course, with every day that passes, Isa, and as this incursion appears to be approaching, there is so much attention on what's happening in and around Gaza, and to the Palestinians of Gaza. That anger that you've seen spill out over the course of the last more than a week now is likely to continue. This is really a conflict, of course, that speaks to people around the world, not just Israelis and Jewish people that we've been hearing about and those that are backing Israel and trying to support it through this.
But of course, those angrier and angrier voices about what's happening to the Palestinians who are taking to the streets really in the hope that they too, will have their concerns and worries heard, despite the bands that you mentioned, Isa.
SOARES: Indeed. Melissa Bell for us in Paris. Thanks very much, Melissa.
Let me bring you up to date with some other international news that we have been following for you this hour.
Voting closed just a few hours ago in a bitten nationwide election in Poland. And it appears the populace ruling party's reign may be over. An exit poll shows the Law and Justice Party will lose its majority in parliament, and that's despite winning the biggest vote share. A coalition would have to be formed with another party if they are to retain power.
The election is expected to have major ramifications for opponents stands on migration, the balance of power in the European Union, and of course EU support for the war in Ukraine.
A 6.3 magnitude earthquake struck Afghanistan on Sunday. And it comes just two days after two other deadly quakes in the same region, in the western part of the country. Taliban, government officials estimate more than 2,000 people killed in the one that hit on October 7th. Most of them women and children.
We're going to take a very short break. We'll be right back after this with our continuing coverage.
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[17:45:25]
SOARES: Welcome back, everyone. Israel's military says it struck 250 targets in northern Gaza on Sunday, hitting dozens of military headquarters and killing a Hamas commander. Hamas has not yet commented on this. These attacks come as the IDF is preparing for the next stage of its war with Hamas. It is expected to involve coordinated strikes from the air, sea and land and comes in direct response to the terror attacks by Hamas just over a week ago.
Well, the IDF says the next stage will include significant ground operations, though it has not given any indication when they might begin.
I want to bring in Bilal Saab, Director of Defense and Security Program at the Middle East Institute. Bilal, great to have you on the show.
So, we've heard as we outlined that the IDF said there will be some sort of incursion by land, sea and air. But many asking right now Bilal, you know, when is that going to happen? Why hasn't it taken place? How do you read this?
BILAL SAAB, DIRECTOR, DEFENSE AND SECURITY PROGRAM AT THE MIDDLE EAST INSTITUTE: Right. I mean, I've suspected the Israelis are going to try to keep some element of surprise, because that's always important to military operations. And they have telegraphed their intentions, obviously. But then also, I believe that there's still room for an intensification of the airstrikes to try to make this ground incursion, a little bit easier for the, to try to continue to hit in pummel headquarters in military facilities of Hamas. But I suspect that this will be quite eminent, perhaps a day, if not hours.
SOARES: So, did they give diplomacy a chance here at all? I mean, there's this diplomatic whirlwind tour that we have been reporting on by Secretary Antony Blinken? Does that have an impact you think Bilal on how long the Israelis take to go into Gaza? Does it delay the incursion? Or does the IDF here have its own clock?
SAAB: Oh, I sure hope so. But just like most conflict sees, this is going to be in parallel to kinetic operations. I don't think it's either or. And there's going to be conversations continuous with Egyptians, with the Qataris, pretty much anybody wants to get involved in order to create some kind of a prisoner swap.
But you're exactly right. My suspicion is that the Israelis have their own clock, they're going to continue with humbling Hamas. And they're going to try to achieve as many military objectives as possible, although there's a huge question mark, of course, about successful execution, given the challenges of the terrain.
SOARES: Yes, let's talk about those challenges Bilal. Because the ID, you know, while the IDF decides to go in when it does decide to do that, Hamas says, watch. I mean, do you worry that this gives them more time to regroup here? SAAB: Well, I mean, Hamas is not a dumb organization in the sense that they expected pretty much a fierce and massive Israeli response, most likely, including a ground cushion, therefore, they are actually prepared for this kind of warfare. And they have pretty much, you know, prepared militarily, they're going to use their extensive tunnel infrastructure. It almost seems to me like a trap. But it's a trap, simply that the Israelis are not going to be able to avoid, given the fact that you've got dozens and dozens of Israeli hostages and international hostages in the hands of Hamas.
So, this is going to be bloody. There's no mistake about it. But I suspect that there's just no turning back on this kind of situation. It is, at this point, you know, a political decision made by the Israeli cabinet. And I feel like the decision also has been made to accept as many casualties as possible on both sides.
SOARES: Yes, let's talk about this, the challenges that the IDF will take.
SAAB: Right.
SOARES: They will face when they, when they do go, Israel, as you know, Bilal has urged over a million people to leave the northern half of the Gaza Strip. Many have been going south, as we've heard others can't leave it seems for medical reasons. And it seems Hamas is telling civilians to stay. How does this? Plus, the 155 hostages according to Israel, they've been taken, brutally taken by Hamas. You know, how does this and being held by Hamas? How does complicate the strategy by the IDF? How do you envision (ph) this?
SAAB: Melodramatically. Absolutely, you know, obviously, we're not talking about dozens, hundreds, not even thousands of people moving from the North. To the south, we're talking about more than million people and you're exactly right. The fact that Hamas is telling you to stay put, does not make things any easier, although it is pretty much consistent with Hamas a strategy to use civilians as human shields.
[17:50:00]
My fear and I really hope I'm wrong on this, is that there's going to be a lot of civilian casualties and collateral damage. There's sort of some kind of attention I think in Israeli military strategy here. On the one hand, they really want to pummel, and in accordance with their own objective stated objectives to destroy Hamas, on the other, you got to exercise some kind of caution, given the fact that the organization has all these hostages in its possession. And they have pretty much scattered them across the street. And of course, in tunnels, how they balance between these two objectives is going to be incredibly difficult.
You know, aside from trench warfare is the second most difficult kind of warfare that military has tried to avoid is urban warfare. But that's precisely what the Israeli military is going to have to wait right now. There is a high level of readiness, don't get me wrong, but that doesn't mean that the fight is going to be easy. There's going to be a lot of challenges tactical operational, and I believe that Hamas is ready for it.
SOARES: And I hope that you're wrong Balal on that, too.
SAAB: Absolutely.
SOARES: There's been so much loss, so much loss of life. Bilal, I really appreciate you taking the time to speak to us. Thank you very much.
SAAB: (INAUDIBLE).
SOARES: And this just coming in to CNN, a source telling us that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has invited U.S. President Joe Biden to visit Israel soon, and the two sides are discussing the possibility. It's not clear yet though, when that type of trip could happen, or how far along discussions are. Mr. Biden's top diplomat Antony Blinken as we've been reporting has been the region for the past few days and is due to return to Israel again on Monday.
We are going to take a short break, but do stay right here with our continuing coverage.
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SOARES: Welcome back, everyone. In the last 30 minutes, the UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres has released a statement calling for too strong humanitarian appeals. And what he said was this dramatic moment, as we are his words, on the verge of the Abyss in the Middle East.
I want to bring our Becky Anderson, Becky, for more perspective on this. And those appeals he had his two pronged really appeal to Hamas to release the hostages without conditions, and to Israel for their access for humanitarian aid as well as supplies. Surely these two priorities need to be front and center for Secretary Blinken emphasis on many others.
ANDERSON: Yes, and I think absolutely hostages are front and center. And I think the humanitarian situation on the ground, which is verging on catastrophic, if not already catastrophic front and center. He also has, of course, hit the U.S. citizens to consider both those who are hostages at present, we know of at least 12, we already know that 30 Americans have lost their lives. And there'll be dual citizens in Gaza, that he is trying to affect the evacuation. But the hostages the humanitarian situation, front and center, I think appealing for the release of these hostages from Hamas without conditions.
Now, frankly, is going to fall on deaf ears. We already know the (INAUDIBLE) have been working to mediate between the Israelis and Hamas at the beginning of the week that looked like it will be a prisoner exchange. And towards the end of the week, we are talking more about, you know, a ceasefire or the ceasing of the military conflict. Israel's determination that it will take him as out as a condition of for Hamas they say, you know, unless you stop that these hostages will not be released.
[17:55:04]
So, I think that file is absolutely crucial at present, but I think the appeal to Hamas is likely to fall on deaf ears. The humanitarian situation is one that is not just prescient. Now for the people of Gaza who are under such duress possible. We know how many lives have been lost, we know how bad it's getting with this total siege, but for the region as well. The region is absolutely petrified that this conflict is going to spill out into the West Bank, Lebanon and beyond. And we are talking about, you know, the force displacement of, you know, potentially 2 million Gazans if this conflict continues at the pace at which the Israelis have indicated they want it to be and nobody around the region wants that.
You've seen these Abraham Accords. These were an effort to put the Palestinian sort of plight -- the Palestinians squarely in focus. This is a U.S. effort to sort of recalibrate their Middle Eastern policy, like in telling you that there's been much, much criticism of some of the leadership you've already -- in countries that have already signed up to the Abraham Accords that they haven't put the Palestinian fall, you know, as central as it should be.
But I think now, this is an inflection point, I think the plight of the Palestinians here in this region is now going to be front and center. You're hearing that around the region, a real fear that if not, what happens to those Palestinians, not just in Gaza, but in the West Bank, and in East Jerusalem. This is a real inflection point, there is no doubt about it and ignore the Palestinian people at your peril, I think is the message in all of this. Isa?
SOARES: Indeed, indeed. And that's exactly what we've been hearing the last three hours from NGOs, from families of loved ones who have been stranded in the region. And I know you've also been pressing Becky, those in the region.
And that does it for our coverage, CNN special coverage of the "War in Israel." Thanks very much for your company.
I'm Isa Soares in London.
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JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: Good evening. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington, with our continuing coverage of Israel at war.
[17:59:59]
There are new updates from the battlefield at this hour. Israeli Defense Forces now claimed they have killed a Hamas commander amid a barrage of 250 strikes in Gaza today.
