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CNN International: U.N.: We're On "Verge Of The Abyss" In Middle East; Blinken: Rafah Crossing Will Be Opened; Rallies On Both Sides Of Israeli-Hamas War Taking Place Around The World; China's Top Diplomat: Israel Has Gone Beyond "Self-Defense". Aired 10-11p ET
Aired October 15, 2023 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:37]
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Hello and welcome, everyone. I'm Michael Holmes. I appreciate your company as we continue our breaking news coverage of Israel at war.
And we begin with a warning from the United Nations that we are on the verge of the abyss in the Middle East. The U.N. secretary general calling on Hamas to immediately release the hostages it has been holding since its terror attacks in Israel on October 7th. The IDF now says more than 1,400 people in Israel have been killed by Hamas since the attacks began.
In retaliation, Israel's military says it's preparing for combined and coordinated strikes from air, sea, and land. But we still have no word on exactly when that offensive might begin.
The U.N. is also calling for immediate humanitarian access in Gaza, which has been under intense airstrikes during the past week. Palestinian health authorities say the death toll is now surpassed 2,600, including more than 700 children as tens of thousands of people moved southward for safety.
Diplomats by racing to try and stop the crisis from getting any worse to our secretary of state, Anthony Blinken, making visits to Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Jordan. After meetings in Cairo, he promised that the crucial Rafah border crossing will be addressed soon and opens soon. And that progress is being made.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: I had very good conversations both with the crown prince in Saudi Arabia and here in what Egypt with President El-Sisi, I've heard good ideas with some of the things that we need to do moving forward including ideas of assistance to Palestinians in Gaza who are in need, but also good and important conversations about the future and where we hope all timothy together we can bring this in a much more positive way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Right now, the Rafah checkpoint on the border with Egypt is the only viable way in or out of Gaza. Until it is open, there is nowhere for people to go, and nowhere for aid to get in.
The last time the IDF went into Gaza to target Hamas leaders was in 2014.
Nic Robertson now looks back at the operation then to see what lessons can be learned now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (voice-over): Close to Gaza, preparations underway for a much anticipated ground offensive. Troops from different units training together. There is an urgency here. They have to be ready fast.
Right now, this is a rehearsal. If and when there is an incursion, these troops could be at the front of it. Tanks, or for this practice, model ones right now, followed by infantry and combat engineers -- a combined force spearheading an incursion.
If they do, Major Ofek will be near the front.
MAJOR OFEK, IDF TROOP COMMANDER (through translator): We expect to go to war. We expect to destroy the terrorist organization of Hamas, kill its government, and kill every last terrorist. That's what we planned to do, and that's how it will be.
ROBERTSON: The last time the IDF went into Gaza, targeting Hamas's leaders was 2014. Ariel Bernstein was 21, in the special forces, one of the first to cross the border.
ARIEL BERNSTEIN, FORMER IDF SOLDIER & PEACE ACTIVIST: We're just afraid that there's something waiting for you at every corner.
ROBERTSON: But his experiences then have left some questioning the tactics today. Back then, he says that the IDF wants civilians to leave, and Hamas told them to stay, just as it's happening now. But some had stayed. His orders, he says, assume the civilians had left.
BERNSTEIN: So, whoever you see is basically engaged in fighting, and is involved, and therefore, we call it engaging with fire, with any home you enter, with any kind of shape of a person that you see from afar.
ROBERTSON: In many ways, Israel's actions are playing out just as they have in the past. 2021 gun positions, freshly dug back in use.
And in Gaza, the civilian death toll, according to Palestinian health officials, already higher than in 2014.
[22:05:05]
And like then, Israel is already facing huge international pressure to avoid more civilian casualties.
JAKE SULLIVAN, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: What we are doing is saying privately what we have said publicly, which is that all military operations should be conducted consistent with the law of war, that civilians should be protected.
ROBERTSON: The problem, the IDF says it faces, just like in 2014, Hamas will be hiding amongst civilians.
MAJOR DORON SPIELMAN, IDF SPOKESPERSON: The whole situations we're talking about with Gazan civilians forcibly embedded is another element of Hamas. Hamas has to be fully defeated.
ROBERTSON: So, the responsibility is on them and not you?
DORON: The responsibility is on Hamas for their own civilians. Our responsibility is to eliminate Hamas's capabilities completely.
ROBERTSON: Major Ofek pausing during training in a mockup Palestinian town says they don't hurt innocents, only terrorists. But admits if they are sent to Gaza, avoiding civilian deaths won't be easy.
Do you think that it's possible to fight Hamas without civilians getting injured?
OFEK: We are concerned with overthrowing the Hamas regime, and killing the terrorists in Gaza. If it would be difficult, it would be difficult, not easy.
ROBERTSON: Outside of the camp gates, Israel's military ponders their next move, troops are saying their fond farewells.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: Well, Iran's president is warming that war between Israel and Hamas could spread to other parts of the Middle East if the crisis in Gaza has not resolved soon. In a call with France's Emmanuel Macron on Sunday, Iran's president called for an immediate end of the bombardment of residential areas in Gaza and demanded that efforts be made to lift the blockade on the territory. U.S. Secretary of State, Antony Blinken, spent the weekend holding talks with leaders across the Middle East in the hopes of preventing a conflict from spreading. He is warning that Iran, other regional players not to take advantage of the crisis, noting that the U.S. is sending a second carrier strike group to the region.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLINKEN: We back it up not only with the words that we are saying, but with what we're actually doing including the deployment of these aircraft carrier battle groups. Again, not to provoke anyone but to send a clear message of deterrence that no one should do anything that why there is a conflict in any way, or furthers aggression against Israel from any other direction. So, we've been clear about that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: CNN has also learned that Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu has invited U.S. president, Joe Biden, to visit Israel and that both countries are discussing the possibility of a visit soon.
Well, joining me now from Washington, D.C., is Firas Maksad, senior fellow with the Middle East Institute.
And thanks for doing so.
As everything seems on the brink of getting worse, what more could the U.S. Arab nations in the region, Gulf nations be doing right now. And would either side be ready to listen at?
FIRAS MAKSAD, SENIOR FELLOW, MIDDLE EAST INSTITUTE: Well, Michael, it's good to be with you. Clearly, there's a lot of diplomatic efforts that are ongoing right now in the region, the secretary of state of the United States has visited, I lost count, six or seven Arab capitals and Israel to. There's an effort here to contain this war rather than preclude at.
I think it's clear, a green light from the administration for Israel to commence the ground invasion of Gaza, and to try -- to try and finish Hamas. So, where the efforts are of concern as to alleviate some of the civilian suffering in Gaza through humanitarian corridors. But also to contain the conflict to make sure that we don't have full on war between Hezbollah and Lebanon and Israel, because if it does take place, that carries the potential to strike others in the region. And a war with Hezbollah would make Gaza a sideshow.
HOLMES: Yeah, Israel's response to the massacre of civilians is expected of course. But given the scale of what's happened at what could detect come, one question to be considered salmon is what comes after, who fixes Gaza, who caters to the population. I guess who owns what's left?
MAKSAD: Yeah, I mean, my guess is that a lot of these discussions that are taking place in the regional capital knew exactly about that. We saw meeting between Secretary Blinken, but also with the president of the Palestinian authority, Mahmoud Abbas. I think what their collectively trying to figure out is if indeed Israel is successful in uprooting Hamas from Gaza, what we'll fill that void, and there are many thoughts in there that could be direct Israeli occupation which we heard from President Biden today that he is not in favor of, thinks it's a bad idea.
[22:10:09]
One option is for the Palestinian Authority to return to Gaza and try to govern there, but, we also know that the Palestinian Authority has a hold on the West Bank is tenuous. It's anybody's guess as to whether they would be able to accomplish that or not in Gaza.
HOLMES: Yeah, not a lot of respect to the P.A. in the West Bank, let alone Gaza.
For a long time, which brings us to the border issue. For a long time the whole notion of a two-state solution has been effectively dad, not even on life support, there are those in Netanyahu's cabinet who openly favor not only the spread of settlements but the annexation of the West Bank.
What do you think is been the effect of varying, not addressing Palestinian concerns, and aspirations in recent months, in fact, in recent years?
MAKSAD: Well, let me just say outright that nothing -- nothing justifies that kind of killing of civilians that we saw in Israel.
HOLMES: Of course.
MAKSAD: But, of course, one has to put that in the overall historical context. And when there are people that are occupied, under siege, don't have their very basic needs met, clearly, that is breeding ground for violence. And so, it must be -- there must be a path towards, you know, addressing these grievances that the Palestinians have. The two state solution remains until this day, the only viable option, there are some people out there that think that one state solution might work, I find it hard to believe.
And, you know, from this conflict, there might become an opportunity that people need to see whether there will be an ability to govern in Gaza and away that lends itself and is more amenable to having a peace partner.
And I think, you know, Benjamin Netanyahu, Israeli prime minister never say never, he's had nine political lives maybe more so far. As I see it after this there's going to be a lot of finger pointing and he's going to take that blame.
So, we might be witnessing the end of his political career, that also maybe opening up opportunities on the Israeli side.
HOLMES: Netanyahu has, of course, face regional reconciliation or cooperation, the Abraham Accord talks on normalization with Saudi Arabia. Are those efforts in peril over what's happened in Gaza? And, of course, Arab nations have long been accused of not doing enough for Palestinian aspiration. But could they back away from Israel over this?
MAKSAD: Michael, there's no doubt that at least one of the objectives of the attack that Hamas committed was to undermined ongoing diplomatic efforts and normalization between Saudi Arabia on the one hand and Israel on the other. We've heard that through the statements of Hamas officials, we've heard it come from officials in Iran.
But that said, I think in the short term, yes, those Arab capitals, Saudi Arabia being chief amongst them will have to back away from normalization only if they account for the public pressure that they are under, Arab and Islamic public opinion are inflamed given what's happening in Gaza.
But in the longer term, I don't see these trends changing and I think these regional capitals in Saudi Arabia, together with the U.S. have an opportunity. There's a new leadership in Gaza, have an opportunity to move things forward not only in terms of Arab Israeli relations but maybe even do something for the Palestinian constituents.
HOLMES: Yeah, yeah, real quickly, we will have a minute left, but this is also a domestic a test for Netanyahu especially given the clear security failures and also the extreme right of his government pushing the West Bank as a priority, which diverted attention and military resources literally to the West Bank.
What questions is Netanyahu venture going to have to face, is there a moment of reckoning for him?
MAKSAD: Oh, absolutely. We all recall is really or, squares the 1982 invasion of Lebanon or even 1996, there has been many iterations of war between Israel and its neighbors and, quite often, those have not ended well for Israeli prime ministers.
I would suspect that we see nothing less than a commission of inquiry into the failings, the intelligence failings and the responsibility of the prime minister for what his fellow Israelis. I think even Hamas must have been surprised. I think they overshot their goal. Not in their wildest dream would they have thought that they would catch the Israeli army sleeping and there would be such a complete breakdown in the intelligence.
HOLMES: Great to get your analysis. Firas Maksad, thanks so much. Good to see you.
MAKSAD: My pleasure.
HOLMES: All right, now I am joined by Jonathan Conricus. He's an international spokesperson for the Israel defense forces. He joins me from Tel Aviv.
Lieutenant Colonel, good to see you again.
There has been, I think, the same number of bombs or more dropped on Gaza in a week or so as during the entire 50 days of the 2014 Gaza Israel conflict.
[22:15:07]
What is your assessment of the effectiveness of those strikes in a military sense, of what has been achieved, including who you have taken out of the Hamas leadership?
LT. COL. JONATHAN CONRICUS, ISRAEL DEFENSE FORCES INTERNATIONAL SPOKESPERSON: Yes, that is a process at work. Or are actively targeting the leadership, we are degrading their military capabilities, we are trying to suppress rockets fired towards the Israeli cities and civilians and we are actively stopping or limiting their ability to launch attacks against Israel, mostly on the ground and from the perimeter close to the border. From Yahya Sinwar, the butcher of Khan Younis, and all the way down to the lowest level of military commanders, there are all on the list and we are hard at work finding them in their hiding places using the best intelligence tools that we have at our disposal, including with the ISA, the Israeli Security Agency.
And at this stage, I can say that we're in the early stages. We're operating against an enemy that is cowardly and hides behind civilians, but we are making good progress and we are very determined to continue to make sure that we dismantle Hamas. HOLMES: You mentioned intelligence. I mean, we have spoken about the
IDF's small penetrating missions, if you like, probing missions into Gaza and there is more information that came out today on what was collected in an intelligence sense, operational plans, encrypted phones, and things like that.
What else can you tell us about what was found and how that intel might be useful in a ground incursion?
CONRICUS: Yeah, I think what you are referring to is intelligence that was collected based on the terrorists that infiltrated into Israel. What we have collected from what they carried with them, in terms of communication devices, maps, various encryption methods, and other very useful types, or sources, of information that we are now compiling, analyzing, cataloging, and making sense of both for future near term operations and also for long term goals.
So it has been useful and that is usually normal in military affairs that, as the dust settles, you're able to collect intelligence and start making sense of what your enemy did.
HOLMES: How is the idea of working to find and rescue those hostages, and also how can you be certain, I suppose you can't, that the hostages are not being held in places that you are bombing or places that you will attack in a ground operation? That must be incredibly difficult.
CONRICUS: Yes, this whole situation, frankly, is unprecedented. Never before have we faced such a situation and I don't think that any western country has faced a similar situation, so it is uncharted territory but we are very focused on getting every piece of intelligence that we can, formulating a plan, and of course, eventually, getting all of these people home, back to Israel.
HOLMES: I will say this at the outset, it's undeniably true that Hamas hides among the civilian population. It is a fact, intimidates the population, is indifferent to Palestinian civilian deaths and suffering. That was given.
But it is interesting because there is a poll by the Washington Institute just in July of this year that said 62 percent of Gazans supported Hamas maintaining a cease-fire with Israel. Fifty percent of Gazans agreed that, quote, Hamas should stop pulling for Israel's destruction and, instead, except a permanent two state solution based on 1967 borders, which was a fascinating poll.
I'm just curious from a military standpoint, are you worried that the level of civilians I casualties so far will actually reverse that, perhaps increased public support for terror groups like Hamas?
CONRICUS: I don't think so. First of all, we will try to keep that number as low as possible throughout this war. We have said that they are not our enemy. I don't think that it will, because I think that the Gazans understand that this, all of this destruction and the casualties that are now happening in Gaza is because of Hamas actions. I think, even people that were out chanting on the streets and supporting, deep down inside, they understand that what Hamas did was so, basically, fundamentally pervert it, and they understand that they released violence and significant suffering on themselves. So, at the end, what I hope and what our aspiration is, that we will dismantle Hamas and, in the future, I can't put a timeframe on that, but in the future, the situation in Gaza will be better.
[22:20:07]
First and foremost for us, that's what I care about, or Israeli civilians living in communities nearby, but also for Palestinians because a Gaza without a Hamas is a much better Gaza.
HOLMES: I wanted to get your thoughts really quick on the crossing being open for aid to come in. Does the Israeli military has any objection to that, that you know about, and also, a double their old question, is there any chance of a cease-fire before your operation is complete?
CONRICUS: Yeah, I've heard reports about separate initiatives, direct bilateral or between Egypt and Hamas regarding goods to be provided. I don't have anything to say about it, I know that we tried to facilitate the safe exit of Americans and a few other internationals from Gaza. That was thwarted by Hamas, they simply didn't open the gates and the whole thing failed. I'm aware of various reports of entering aid, et cetera.
At this stage, I cannot confirm anything. I know that many are involved in it and it's the high priority, but at this stage I cannot confirm exactly what is going on and what has been decided upon.
HOLMES: It's always good to get a situation report from you. Lieutenant Colonel Jonathan Conricus in Tel Aviv, thanks so much.
CONRICUS: Thank you. Thank you for having me.
HOLMES: All right, for the first time since that is shocking and deadly Hamas attack on Israel, the president of the Palestinian Authority has condemned the militants action. The Palestinian news agency WAFA is reporting that Mahmoud Abbas said the policies of Hamas do not represent the Palestinian people. He also called for a rejection of violence and released the prisoners on both sides of the conflict. WAFA says that the master's comments came during a phone call with the president of Venezuela.
One aid official was describing the situation in Gaza as a, quote, complete catastrophe. CNN's Scott McLean has a report on how one city in Gaza south of Israel's evacuation line is coping, but we need to warn you, it does contain graphic video.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is the frantic scene in front of the hospital in the city of Deir al- Balah. Constant wail of sirens and a steady stream of children carried desperately inside. Some bandaged, some seeming alert. Others, not moving at all.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this a target? Is this a real target for Israel, this toddler?
MCLEAN: On Sunday, people in that same city gathered to pray over bodies wrapped in white and loaded on to a flatbed truck.
Deir al-Balah, located south of the evacuation line declared by Israel and Gaza, was hit again on Sunday. Afterwards, heavy machines shift the slabs of concrete, hoping perhaps in vain to find survivors.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): They're all women, all children, children, children.
MCLEAN: Across Gaza, Israel says it hit more than 100 military targets overnight, and more on Sunday. In the aftermath of each, people rushed to frantically find victims. Never far from danger.
This video, from Gaza City, shows the sheer chaos as distraught men, women, and children try to figure out what to do, and where to go next.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): It is, as you can see, destruction. Destruction. They are destroying us.
MCLEAN: Even hospitals like this children's hospital have been told to evacuate from northern Gaza. But with newborn babies and children on ventilators, doctors say they can't.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Where will these children go? They are on ventilators. And it's not possible to move them.
MCLEAN: The World Health Organization says that it strongly condemns Israel's repeated orders of evacuation of 22 hospitals, treating more than 2,000 inpatients in northern Gaza, saying, forcing the evacuation of patients south could be tantamount to a death sentence.
Across Gaza, aid groups say that food and fuel are running desperately low. The U.N. says most people already lack access to water.
Foreign aid is being sent by the plane load and truckload to Egypt in hopes of getting it into Gaza.
[22:25:00]
But Egypt and Palestinians on the ground say that the roads near the border are too badly damaged from airstrikes, for trucks to pass.
Sunday, CNN asked the IDF whether it was coordinating with the aid groups to ensure that supplies get in.
LT. COL. PETER LERNER, IDF SPOKESPERSON: The IDF and defense ministry are engaged with international communities to try and facilitate various different things. You know, I think that we need to leave -- I speak on behalf of the IDF, so we are deeply involved in the combat. We are the warriors. We need to leave the diplomacy for the diplomats. MCLEAN: In just eight days, the death toll in Gaza has already
surpassed the number of people killed in the 2014 conflict, which lasted 51 days. With the Israeli ground invasion looming, and supplies running low, there is little hope that things will soon get better for the people of Gaza.
Scott McLean, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: Now, thousands of lives were devastated the moment Hamas attacked Israel a little more than a week ago. Coming up, we will hear one woman's brave story of survival from the heinous attacks at the Nova Music Festival. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: Now, we want to share this sobering reminder of how this conflict upended lives within seconds. That one moment, a young woman, seen here, was enjoying a music festival in Israel with her friends. The next, rockets raining down and she is running for her life. She managed to is survived by hiding, now she's back with her IDF unit.
We're calling her Chen and withholding her last name for security reasons. Chen spoke earlier with CNN's Dana Bash.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHEN: I was at the Nova Festival with my friends and we went there to celebrate life and happiness and all we want it to do this to dance. And during dancing, on about 6:30 in the morning, they shut down the music and we look up in the sky and we saw a rain of rockets. Like, literally rain of rockets. And no one knew what to do, so everyone starts screaming and yelling and crying and me and my friend decided we needed to go to our car.
So we went to our car and 3,000 people trying to go out from a parking lot is not something easy, it is not something nice. While we are in our car waiting to go out by I saw everyone left their cars and started riding. I did know what happened so I opened my car window and I heard someone screaming, they are here. The terrorists are here.
And then I realized that this is big.
[22:30:00]
Terrorists in Israel, okay. So I left my car, me and my friends started running to the field and I start hearing the gunshot, come forward to us and I lost my friend during the running. I started running by myself. So I found a bush and I lay on the ground in the bush and I put my hands on my head, with my face down. The gunshots still continuing and people crying for help.
After that, about one hour or two later, of hiding, I heard people, not screaming, but they were allowed to go back to your cars. Guys, go back to your cars. Because I was on my own I decided to raise my head a little bit top to see what is going on and I decided I need to go back to my car.
I started running and I saw my friend from home during the running and I called him to come with me. We get inside the car and we start driving because the road was blocked from both sides. We saw the cops, the cops were also terrified, they didn't know what happened. They direct us to a road, to a farm road --
DANA BASH, CNN HOST: And you got out?
CHEN: No, but in that road we saw a lot of dead bodies. Dead bodies that didn't just murdered, they were slaughtered, okay, with cold blood. We drove slowly because we didn't want to run over the bodies. This is how I escaped.
BASH: And, Chen, I am so sorry, I just want to make sure that our viewers know that you are talking to us in the dark because you are just days later fighting in the IDF, fighting in the war.
CHEN: Yes, I decided to come back.
BASH: Can you briefly tell us, as a survivor, that must be unimaginably difficult?
CHEN: Yes, it is. But, after a couple of days that I was sitting in my home and dealing with my mental health issue that happened after what I survived, I decided I needed to go back to the army because I am a combat soldier, okay? When we reach 18 in Israel, and we joined the army, we take an oath and we swear to protect Israel, to protect our country no matter when and no matter what.
And I decided that I needed to go back to my unit because my unit where there to start fighting, okay, and I needed to do my duty, I needed to do what I swear on because I don't have another home. What happened, this massacre, this -- we are in 2023 and I was a witness to a massacre. I don't have another home, I don't have another land.
My family here, I don't know anything else, so I decided I need to come back. I decided to put aside everything I've been through.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Israel Defense Forces confirmed Sunday that it believes Hamas is holding 155 hostages. Efforts continue on several fronts to get them released, the Israeli President Isaac Herzog tells CNN that he is trying to determine their fate and bring them back to Israel.
Mr. Herzog also points out some of the hostages are in need of special medication and treatment.
The former prime minister of Israel, Naftali Bennett, says that his country is eager to hit back. He shares his take on what could be to come in the Hamas Israel conflict. That's when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:36:40] HOLMES: Aid groups say conditions in Gaza are deteriorating rapidly. The enclave, of course, has been cut off from water, electricity, fuel, and everything else, food as, well for days now as Israeli airstrikes continue to pound towns and cities. Tens of thousands of Palestinians, perhaps hundreds of thousands, have already fled from northern Gaza to the south to a safe and expected Israeli ground incursion which will likely start around the north. Israel's ambassador to the U.S. tells CNN that Israel is working with the United Nations to establish a humanitarian zone in southern Gaza.
And, U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken told reporters earlier that he believes the Rafah border crossing between Gaza and Egypt will be open at some point, perhaps soon. The Rafah checkpoint is currently the only viable way in or out of Gaza, after Israel declared a complete siege of the territory.
The U.S. President Joe Biden says he believes Israel will follow the rules of war in its conflict with Hamas. This was in an interview with CBS program "60 Minutes". He also said that he believes Israel, quote, has to respond to the attacks that killed 1,400 people, including 30 Americans that issued this call for restraint.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: I think it would be a big mistake. Look, what happened in Gaza, in my view, is Hamas, and extreme elements of Hamas, don't represent all the Palestinian people. I think it would be a mistake to -- for Israel to occupy Gaza again, but to go in and take out the extremist, Hezbollah is up north, but Hamas down south is a necessary requirement.
INTERVIEWER: Do you believe that Hamas must be eliminated entirely?
BIDEN: Yes, I do. But there needs to be a Palestinian Authority, there needs to be a path to a Palestinian state.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: In his first interview since the Hamas attack on Israel, the Israeli President Isaac Herzog described to CNN's Wolf Blitzer some horrific scenes that he witnessed and we do caution you there is graphic content.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ISAAC HERZOG, ISRAEL PRESIDENT: I saw the most horrific scenes, I saw the skull (ph) of a woman, in which house I visited, the house totally destroyed. They just cut her head off. I saw a pool of blood in that house where the picture of the children's hanging, and the grandchildren hanging on the wall with knives and hatchets with which they went.
Again I saw the most horrific scenes possible, I saw bloodshed and I was thinking to myself because in the kibbutz Be'eri, there was a special fund to help their neighbors from Gaza. For years, they have been paying money to help their friends and
neighbors in Gaza, because they advocated peace. And all of the sudden, life was shattered. The same, life was shattered for the Israeli nation.
[22:40:01]
My nation is bleeding. My nation is in pain. My nation is in sorrow and we are faced with an extremely cruel, inhumane enemy which we have to uproot with no mercy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: The United Nations says no one was hurt after a rocket hit its peacekeepers headquarters in southern Lebanon. The U.N. says it is still trying to determine who launched the rocket, adding that it had during an intense exchange of fire on Lebanon's border with Israel on Sunday. The IDF says its fighter jets hit has below military structure in Lebanon on Sunday. An uptick in exchange of fire between Hezbollah and Israel is raising fears that the conflict could easily spread.
CNN senior international correspondent Ben Wedeman is in southern Lebanon and filed this report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It was another day of cross border strike, counterstrike, between Hezbollah and Israel with the violence edging beyond isolated incidents and starting to veer toward the scenario so many here fear. Another full on war between Hezbollah and Israel, one worse perhaps in the more than month-long battle they fought in 2006.
Throughout the day, Hezbollah fighters targeted Israeli military positions on the border. Firing guided missiles, and communication observation and surveillance equipment, and also hitting some Israeli towns, killing one Israeli civilian and wounding several others. Israel fired artillery and launched air strikes on what it called Hezbollah military infrastructure.
As a result of the fighting, Israel declared a four kilometer deep closed military zone along the border to keep civilians away. In the afternoon, a volley of rockets was fired into Israel most intercepted by the Iron Dome, but it wasn't Hezbollah but rather the military wing of Hamas that claimed responsibility.
At roughly the same time, a rocket hit the headquarters of the U.N. peacekeeping force, just north of the border, slamming in to the helipad there, no one was injured. The U.N. is trying to determine where the rocket was fired from.
All of this doesn't amount to war yet, but it's getting dangerously close.
Ben Wedeman, CNN, Southern Lebanon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: Now, around the world people are taking to the streets to show support for both the Israelis and the Palestinians. Jewish communities in the U.S. have held rallies in solidarity with Israel and several Western nations have stepped up security at synagogues and Jewish schools. At this gathering in Sydney, Australia, there were calls for peace and justice and condemnation of Israel's military actions in Gaza. In other countries, like France, pro-Palestinian demonstrations have been banned.
I want to go down to Melissa Bell who is standing by there in Paris for us.
And, Melissa, the longer this goes on, the greater the outrage and the impacts of that outrage.
MELISSA BELL, CNN PARIS CORRESPONDENT: That's right, and the greater the number of voices you're likely to see on the streets of cities as we have seen for more than a week now around the world. Mike, you mentioned here in France, but in Germany as well there are protests banned, because of those officials citing public security concerns, but elsewhere they have gone ahead.
Today, again, people took to the streets in the name of Palestinians and to protest what is going on in Gaza. In Amsterdam, there were protests there in Holland, one man arrested for waving a Hamas flag, a reminder that officials are trying to weed out supporters of terrorism from those protesting in the name of the civilians of Gaza. There are protests as well in Rabat, in Morocco, but also in Saturday in the United Kingdom. Tens of thousands took to the streets in the name of the Palestinian people and in their calls to try to protect the civilians of Gaza, as they have in so many cities around the world for more than a week.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PROTESTERS: Palestine will be free!
BELL (voice-over): In Sydney, thousands turned out to express solidarity with Palestinians and oppose Israel's military action in Gaza. The police out in full force as well, with organizers warning that antisemitic behavior that had been seen at previous protests would not be welcome.
No signs of that chaos here, but the crowd's message to the Palestinian people was loud and clear.
LIQAA, DEMONSTRATOR: What's a protest going to do except to win us support? We have no legitimized, legalized, any possible power to do anything to protect them. Shame on the government who do and don't do anything.
BELL: Pro-Palestinian rallies have been held in cities around the world.
[22:45:02] In France and Germany, where they have been banned, demonstrators gathered regardless.
Some of the largest rallies for Palestinians were held in the Arab world. Thousands attended a rally in Turkey, where crowds vented anger at both Israel and the United States.
Similar scenes of solidarity in Pakistan.
SALMA REHEEL QAZI, DEMONSTRATOR: We are saying from our rallies and all over the Pakistan, that Palestinians are not alone.
BELL: And in Tunisia, anger that more is not being done to protect Palestinians.
SAHER ELMASRI, GAZAN LIVING IN TUNIS (through translator): My people are facing extermination. And Gaza is being devastated. Where is the international community? Where are the Arabs? Where is the Arab conscience?
BELL: In Tokyo, a smaller crowd with a similar plea.
AWEED SADEED, DEMONSTRATOR: I am here to show that we are united now with Muslims. They're very tired of war. Everyone is very tired of conflicts. And everyone wants justice.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BELL: Even as all eyes are on the Rafah Crossing to see whether or not Egypt will allow it to be opened and the civilians to get out that aid to get in, Michael. There is, of course, growing concern for what is happening to the civilians and, as you suggested a moment ago, that is likely to fuel further protests over the coming days as so many who have long supported Palestinians grow increasingly concerned, Michael.
HOLMES: I'm curious where you there are there in France, obviously, great sensitivity to antisemitism, but what has been the public response for the notion of banning pro-Palestinian protests?
BELL: Well, look, despite the vets bands we have had two days of protests here, both on Thursday and Saturday. On Thursday, there were many hundreds who turned out. Several arrests were made.
Again, on Saturday, another protest held and 19 arrests made, this time. So people are going out to protest nonetheless, many of them carrying placards protesting the ban itself. So there is a strong feeling, but you're quite right, Michael, France is a particular country. You have to bear in mind that it has not only what is estimated to be the largest Jewish population outside of Israel or the United States, but also, of course, the largest Muslim population in Western Europe. That has led to fears that there could be divisions that you are seeing there, all of that motion and violence could spread here. In fact, when Emmanuel Macron spoke to the French people in his televised address last week it was to urge the country to remain united and to avoid bringing the anger or the issues of the Middle East that home. So far that has seemed to work, there has been those protests, there
have been those protests, there has been a significant rise in antisemitic acts and speech here in France, but, again, a very strong police presence. The sentinel patrols the street, the visible police presence they hope will try to deter any actual violence, any further violence beyond what we saw on Friday when a schoolteacher was tragically killed in an attack that has now been linked with events in the Middle East -- Michael.
HOLMES: We appreciate the reporting. Melissa, thank you. Melissa Bell there in Paris for us.
Now, it is of course important to remember the human tragedy of the center of the war between Israel and Hamas. Israeli newspaper is doing just that by featuring photographs of children on its front page. The paper says they believe to be missing or held hostage in Gaza. The headline reads: This is how hell feels. CNN cannot independently verify the fate of those children.
We will take a short break and have more news in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:51:09]
HOLMES: Pope Francis now among those for a humanitarian corridor in Gaza. In his Sunday address at the Vatican, the pope noted illness following the conflict in the Middle East with great sorrow. He says the entire population of Gaza needs access to humanitarian corridors.
Pope Francis also called for a release of hostages and an end to the bloodshed saying, quote, wars are always a defeat, always.
China weighing in on the war between Israel and Hamas. The country's top diplomat saying Israel now has gone beyond self-defense with its actions since the Hamas attack.
CNN Beijing bureau chief Steven Jiang joins me now from the Chinese capital.
What more can you tell us about China's response here?
STEVEN JIANG, CNN BEIJING BUREAU CHIEF: Yeah, Michael, that line you just mentioned from Chinese foreign minister Wang Yi has gotten quite a bit of attention because some say it seems to indicate Beijing's hardened position against Israel as the humanitarian crisis in Gaza worsens.
But it's also interesting, sometimes, what is not is being set is equally important if not more important what is being said. The one thing the Chinese have not said in all their official pronouncements or statements is the word Hamas. They have not mentioned this term and they have not really mentioned in their initial reaction the Israeli casualties and suffering by the heinous acts launched by Hamas on the 7th of October, and that obviously did not go unnoticed by Israeli and its allies. Chuck Schumer, the Senate majority leader, was also visiting China
last week when it happened with a bipartisan delegation. He told us he actually felt compelled to raise this point with Chinese leader Xi Jinping when they met in person. That was why, later, we saw a tweet statement from the foreign ministry expressing condolences to civilian victims and also condemning violence against civilians from all sides.
But that is very much for reflection of China's long-standing policy and priority in this region, even as it tries to grow its influence and assert its influence in the region. Remember, they recently brokered that deal between the Saudis and saying that the Chinese foreign minister has been very active and getting on the phone with all the regional powers, not just around the Saudi Arabia, but also Turkey and the Palestinians of course, and also the Israelis even though at a relatively low level.
But, at the end of the day, a lot of analysts say they lack the expertise and experience in dealing with, perhaps, the world's most complex and sensitive issue. So they kind, of in a way, fall back to their default position of those long-standing positions of advocating for Palestinian statehood.
They may not be the only ones saying that, but, in the short term, that obviously is not going to happen and then there is all of that ideological indoctrination, if you will, -- explain when the Israeli embassy this brutally attacked in broad daylight and on Friday there is not much sympathy on Chinese social media for him, Michael.
HOLMES: All right, thanks for the update. Steven Jiang there in Beijing for us.
And we're going to take a short break and we'll be back with more news in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:55:58]
HOLMES: Welcome back, in our ongoing coverage of the war between Israel and Hamas we are right now like to get you caught up on the other major stories making news at the moment.
And the 6.3 magnitude earthquake hit Afghanistan Sunday morning and, of course, this is just days after another deadly quake hit the same region. Taliban government officials estimate more than 2000 people were killed in that tremor on October 7th, most of them women and children.
Center-right candidate Daniel Noboa is on track to become Ecuador's next president following an election driven by concerns over rising violence in the Latin American nation. Noboa, the son of a banana tycoon, received 52 percent of the vote. His main rival, Louisa Gonzalez, got almost 48 percent. More than 10 million people voted in Sunday's election and it comes after the assassination of another presidential candidate back in August. And polls are now closed in a parliamentary election in Poland and an
exit poll suggests the populist ruling party's reign might be over. It shows the Law and Justice Party will lose its majority in parliament. The results of this election were expected to have major ramifications for Poland's direction, the balance of power in the European Union, and the future of the war in Ukraine.
Thanks for spending part of your day with me this hour. I'm Michael Holmes. I will be back with more coverage of the Israel Hamas war right after the break.
