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Water Should Be Returning to Gaza; Concerns Over Increase in Clashes with Hezbollah; Israel Preparing for Combined, Coordinated Strikes; Republicans Reportedly Ready to Block Jim Jordan Vote; Protestors Rally over Israel-Hamas Conflict. Aired 12-1a ET

Aired October 16, 2023 - 00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello and welcome, everyone. Appreciate your company. I'm Michael Holmes with our continuing coverage of Israel at war.

[00:00:43]

And we begin with new remarks from the U.S. president, Joe Biden, who is warning that Israel should not try to occupy Gaza as Israeli ground invasion now seems all but inevitable.

Mr. Biden says he believes Israel has to respond to the Hamas attacks that killed 1,400 people, but issued a call for restraint.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think it would be a big mistake. Look, what happened in Gaza, in my view, is Hamas and the extreme elements of Hamas don't represent all the Palestinian people. And I think that it would be a mistake to -- for Israel to occupy Gaza. But to going in and taking out the extremists, the -- Hezbollah is up North, but Hamas down South -- is a necessary requirement.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you believe that Hamas must be eliminated entirely?

BIDEN: Yes, I do. But there needs to be a Palestinian Authority. There needs to be a -- a path to a Palestinian state.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Now, those comments as tens of thousands of Palestinians flee South after the Israeli military urged civilians to leave Northern areas of Gaza.

The Palestinian health ministry says more than 2,600 people have been killed, including 700 children, and is appealing for humanitarian aid as conditions deteriorate in Gaza.

Aid deliveries have been piling up on the Egyptian side of the Rafah border crossing, where thousands of people remain stuck on the Gaza side. U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken, who met with Egypt's president, says the crucial crossing will be open.

CNN's Clare Sebastian is following developments and joins me now live from London.

Good to see you, Clare. Let's start with conditions in Gaza. Water, fuel, electricity, and more. All big concerns.

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Shelter, functioning hospitals, really everything that you can think of is running short in the region.

And the problem that we have is that this call by Israel to evacuate comes after a full week of heavy bombardment, which as you say, has already killed more than two and a half thousand civilians, according to the Palestinian Authority; in general, the nine and a half thousand.

It also comes after a week of this total siege, as Israel called it, that has, of course, cut off those vital supplies. Not only compounding the humanitarian crisis, but a significant impediment, of course, to people actually being able to move from the North to the South of the enclave.

And of course, it has hurt the health system in this region, which would have already been strained by those nine and a half thousand injured, at serious risk of collapse.

Listen to the head of the Palestinian Red Crescent speaking to CNN's Erin Burnett.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARWAN JILANI, DIRECTOR GENERAL, PALESTINIAN RED CRESCENT SOCIETY: Food and water is running out. Medicine and, obviously, fuel. We have been saying that we only have a feel for a few days. Today, I can say that we only have fuel maybe for tomorrow and after tomorrow. And, you know, without fuel, the hospitals will not function.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SEBASTIAN: So, one, maybe two days of fuel left there, Michael.

Water is another major issue. As you say, Israel had said, and the U.S., as well, that the water supply had been switched back on to Gaza on Sunday. But the Palestinian Authority is there saying that they couldn't confirm that, the water authority, because of course, you need electricity to pump the water. And they couldn't confirm that they have that back, as well, in order to do so.

And shelter, another major issue. The U.N. humanitarian coordinator saying that they are severely limited on capacity in the South. Not enough space for those people who are fleeing.

So of course, the focus now heavily on how to get refugees out and how to get aid in -- Michael. HOLMES: Yes, and speaking of aid, what more do we know about the efforts at the Rafah gate? Both for aid but also to get some people out?

[00:05:02]

SEBASTIAN: Yes, I mean, I think this is still a very uncontrolled situation. And we've got a real sense of that this morning in a new alert from the U.S. embassy in Israel, Michael, which says that the situation around Rafah will remain, quote, "fluid and unpredictable" and really puts the onus on civilians themselves trying to get out saying, it's unclear whether or for how long travelers will be permitted to transit the crossing if you assess it to be safe -- if you assess it to be safe, addressing people trying to exit, you may wish to move closer to the Rafah border crossing.

And it also warns that there can be very little notice if it opens, and it may be only for a limited time. So I think that really gives you a sense of how unclear the situation is there.

But obviously, efforts are ongoing. Secretary Blinken said Rafah will be open as he was in Egypt on Saturday, and having worked, he said, with Egypt, Israel, and the U.N. on this.

But of course, the current situation is untenable on each side of this border. Aid, as you say, piling up on the Egyptian side. A stadium is being used to accommodate supplies.

So momentum clearly towards something happening. But we don't have any breakthroughs as of yet -- Michael.

HOLMES: All right. Clare Sebastian in London with the very latest. Thanks, Clare.

Now, for the first time since the shocking and deadly Hamas attack on Israel, the president of the Palestinian Authority has condemned, and condemned strongly, the militants' actions.

The Palestinian news agency WAFA is reporting that Mahmoud Abbas said the policies of Hamas do not represent the Palestinian people. He also called for a rejection of violence and the release of prisoners on both sides of the conflict.

WAFA says Abbas's comments came during a phone call with the president of Venezuela.

Iran's president is warning that the war between Israel and Hamas could spread to other parts of the Mideast if the crisis in Gaza is not resolved soon.

In a call with France's Emmanuel Macron on Saturday, Iran's president called for an immediate end to the bombardment of residential areas in Gaza and demanded that efforts be made to lift the blockade on the territory.

U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken spent that weekend holding talks with leaders across the Middle East, in the hopes of preventing a spread of the conflict. He is warning Iran and other regional players not to take advantage of the crisis, noting that the U.S. is sending a second carrier strike group to the region.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: We back that up, not only with the words that we're saying, but with what we're actually doing, including the deployment of these aircraft carrier battle groups, again, not to provoke anyone, but to send a very clear message of deterrence. That no one should do anything that widens this conflict in any way or that furthers aggression against Israel from any other direction. So, we've been clear about that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: The IDF says its fighter jets hit Hezbollah military infrastructure in Lebanon on Sunday. An uptick in clashes with Hezbollah is raising fears that the conflict could spread. Ben Wedeman is in Southern Lebanon with details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It was another day of cross-border strike and counter strike between Hezbollah and Israel, with the violence edging beyond isolated incidences and starting to veer towards the scenario so many here fear: another full- on war between Hezbollah and Israel, one worse, perhaps, than the more than month-long battle they fought in 2006.

Throughout the day, Hezbollah fighters targeted Israeli military positions on the border, firing guided missiles at communications, observation and surveillance equipment. And also hitting some Israeli towns, killing one Israeli civilian and wounding several others.

Israel fired artillery and launched air strikes on what it called Hezbollah military infrastructure. As a result of the fighting, Israel declared a four-kilometer-deep closed military zone along the border to keep civilians away.

In the afternoon, a volley of rockets was fired into Israel, most intercepted by the Iron Dome. But it wasn't Hezbollah, but rather the military wing of Hamas that claimed responsibility.

At roughly the same time, a rocket hit the headquarters of the U.N. peacekeeping force just North of the border, slamming into the helipad there. No one was injured.

The U.N. is trying to determine where the rocket was fired from.

All of this doesn't amount to war yet, but it's getting dangerously close.

Ben Wedeman, CNN, Southern Lebanon.

(END VIDEOTAPE) HOLMES: Earlier, I spoke with Firas Maksad, a senior fellow with the Middle East Institute. I asked him, what more could the U.S. and regional countries do to contain the ongoing crisis?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FIRAS MAKSAD, SENIOR FELLOW, MIDDLE EAST INSTITUTE: There's an effort here to contain this war, rather than to preclude it. I think it's a clear greenlight from the administration in Washington for Israel to commence a ground invasion of Gaza and to try -- to try and finish Hamas.

[00:10:14]

So where the efforts are concerned right now is to try and alleviate some of the civilian suffering in Gaza through humanitarian corridors. But also to contain the conflict, to make sure that we don't have full-on war between Hezbollah in Lebanon and Israel.

Because if that does take place, that carries the potential to suck in others in the region, and a war with Hezbollah would make Gaza a sideshow.

HOLMES: Yes. Israel's response to the massacre of civilians is expected, of course. But given the scale of what's happened and what could be to come, one question to be considered soon is, you know, what comes after? Who fixes Gaza? Who caters to the population? I guess who owns what's left?

MAKSAD: Yes, I mean, my guess is that a lot of those discussions that are taking place in the regional capitals, is exactly about that. And we saw a meeting between, on one hand, Secretary Blinken but also with the -- the president of the Palestinian Authority, Mahmoud Abbas.

I think what they're collectively trying to figure out is that, if indeed, Israel is successful in uprooting Hamas from Gaza, what will fill that void?

And there are many thoughts in there. It could be direct Israeli occupation, which we've heard from President Biden today that he is not in favor of; thinks it's a bad idea.

One option is for the Palestinian Authority to return to Gaza and try to govern there. We also know that the Palestinian Authority authority on -- hold on the West Bank is tenuous, so --

HOLMES: Yes.

MAKSAD: -- it's anybody's guess as to whether they'd be able to accomplish that or not in Gaza.

HOLMES: Yes. Not a lot of respect for the P.A. in the West Bank, let alone Gaza for a long time now.

Which brings us to the broader issue. For a long time now, the whole notion of a two-state solution has been effectively dead. I mean, not even really on life support.

There are those in Netanyahu's cabinet who openly favor not only the spread of settlements but the annexation of the West Bank.

What do you think has been the effect of burying, not addressing, Palestinian concerns and aspirations in recent months? In fact, in recent years?

MAKSAD: Well, let me just say out right that nothing -- nothing -- justifies the kind of killing of civilians that we saw in Israel.

HOLMES: Of course.

MAKSAD: But of course, one has to put that in the overall historical context. And when there are people that are occupied and under siege and don't have their very basic needs met, clearly, that is a breeding ground for violence.

And so it must be -- There must be a path towards, you know -- to addressing these grievances that the Palestinians have. And the two- state solution remains, until this day, the only viable options.

There are some people out there who think that a one-state solution might work. But I find it very hard to believe.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: That was Filas Maksad, senior fellow with the Middle East Institute, speaking to me earlier.

Israel is facing criticism for planning a ground incursion into Gaza with civilians, of course, still inside the enclave. There is only one way for people to get out of Gaza right now. And that is through the Rafah crossing into Egypt.

The U.S. embassy in Israel says there may be very little notice if the crossing opens, and it might be open only for a limited time.

CNN's Wolf Blitzer spoke earlier with the Israeli president, Isaac Herzog, about what steps Israel is taking to protect civilians.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ISAAC HERZOG, ISRAELI PRESIDENT: We are never, never indifferent to the pain of the -- of our Palestinian neighbors. And we always try to operate according to the basic guidance of international law.

We are trying to move these citizens away from the war zone in order so that we can go in and uproot that infrastructure of terror.

Incidentally, perhaps give hope, also, that the Palestinians out there so that that they can buy their life independently, in an -- in an honorable way, and live and let live.

Right now, they're under the -- the suppression of Hamas. And what we are trying to do is to move them to another safe zone so that they won't be hurt.

But Hamas is threatening them, stopping them. Hamas has all the fuel, by the way. It's using the fuel to fight us and shoot at us. Hamas has all the water that they need. They're stopping it.

Hamas has clear instructions that they have given to their soldiers to basically torture the people in Gaza. That's what we are seeing.

And let me tell you another interesting fact. Hamas is the one that, with their missiles, broke all the electricity wires supply to Gaza. We're not responsible for the electricity in Gaza. They are.

[00:15:04]

But since they're sending out fake news and libels and stories full of lies, our answer is very clear. We will do whatever it takes. But civilians will not be hurt. We are working very closely with the United Nations and other agencies. We are talking to them. We are cooperating with them on the ground. And we are taking our time there so that civilians will not be hurt.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: Still to come on the program, Gaza running dangerously low on the bare necessitates as Israeli airstrikes devastate infrastructure. And hospitals say they've reached critical conditions.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: Welcome back. Aid groups are preparing for the worst as the humanitarian crisis in the region intensifies with each day of the conflict.

The director general of the Palestinian Red Crescent says hospitals face imminent shutdown since there is very little fuel left to run generators and therefore, crucial equipment to keep people alive.

He says some of the hospitals only have enough fuel for Monday and possibly some of Tuesday.

Food, medicine, painkillers and water also in short supply. Water from Israel has been cut off in many places from Israe. And with many people lining up now for hours, hoping to refill bottles and canisters, as you see there.

The Pentagon has ordered a second carrier strike group to the Mediterranean Sea as Israel prepares to expand its Gaza operations.

The U.S. warships not intended to join in the fighting, but their presence designed to send a message of deterrence to Iran and Hezbollah. CNN's Hadas Gold reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HADAS GOLD, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: As of right now, the United States is giving absolutely no indication that it plans to send in U.S. military boots on the ground in any way to Israel to try and assist either in the operations in Gaza or in part of a sort of hostage rescue operations.

But what it is doing right now is a show of force, a show of unity, with these carrier strike groups sitting in the waters off the coast. A very clear message to other groups in the region. Not even just Hamas, but Hezbollah, groups in Syria, as well as a deterrence to try to keep them from getting involved.

Now, we do know that the Americans have sent -- already have on the ground a federal team who can help in hostage situations. They're assisting the Israelis. And there is reporting that a marine expeditionary unit is heading, potentially, towards Israel.

This is a unit of more than 2,000 marines and sailors who not only can help in major evacuations, but they also had training in hostage rescue scenarios.

Now no indication that that is where they're headed, or that's why they are headed, why they would potentially be headed towards the region. But it gives you an idea of potentially the support that the Israelis may be receiving from the U.S. military.

Now, the Israeli military and the U.S. military work very, very closely together. They're constantly training with one another. And Israeli military officials often call the American military their brothers in arms.

They actually just had their largest ever joint exercise in the last few months. And during that exercise, they explicitly made it clear that such an exercise was a very clear message to Iran, saying that, if you get involved in a way of attacking Israel, be careful because the Americans are there to support them.

But John Kirby has already said that they have no plans and no intentions right now of sending U.S. troops on the ground into Israel. And Chuck Schumer, in an interview with Erin Burnett earlier, also said that the Israelis have not asked for troops on the ground.

What they want right now is support in the forms of things like -- of munitions, ammunition, also, just the support of having those carrier strike groups off the coast to try and deter any other actors from getting involved.

But even if a hostage rescue operation is attempted, it will be incredibly complex. It will be very, very difficult. And the Israelis will likely be seeking at least some sort of support from the Americans in terms of logistics and intelligence.

Hadas Gold, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: Still to come on the program, growing humanitarian concerns in Gaza. We'll hear from one official about the situation on the ground there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:26:36]

HOLMES: Israel and Hezbollah fighters have also been exchanging fire, raising fears of a second front in the ongoing conflict in the Middle East.

The Israel Defense Forces say that its fighter jets struck Hezbollah's military infrastructure on Sunday and say they are responding to fire coming from Lebanon.

Meanwhile, as fighting intensifies in Gaza, hundreds of thousands of civilians are fleeing South. The U.S. embassy in Israel said a short time ago that the Rafah crossing between Egypt and Gaza may open at short notice for a, quote, "limited time."

The crossing has been closed since the fighting began.

Israeli troops, meanwhile, continue to gather near Gaza ahead of an expected ground offensive against Hamas militants. The last time the IDF went into Gaza to target Hamas leaders was 2014. Nic Robertson looks back at the operation then and what Israel is planning now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (voice-over): Close to Gaza, preparations underway for a much-anticipated ground offensive. Troops from different units training together.

There is an urgency here. They have to be ready fast.

ROBERTSON: Right now this is a rehearsal. If and when there's an incursion, these troops could be at the front of it. Tanks, or this practice, modern ones right now, followed by infantry and combat engineers, a combined force spearheading an incursion.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): If they do, Major Ofek will be near the front.

MAJOR OFEK, IDF TROOP COMMANDER (through translator): We expect to go to war. We expect destroy the terrorist organization Hamas, kill its government, and kill every last terrorist. That's what we plan to do, and that's how it will be.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): The last time the IDF went into Gaza targeting Hamas' leaders was 2014. Ariel Bernstein was 21, in the special forces, one of the first to cross the border.

ARIEL BERNSTEIN, FORMER IDF SOLDIER: You're just afraid that there is something waiting for you at every corner.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): But his experiences then have left him questioning the tactics today.

Back then, he says, the IDF warned civilians to leave, and Hamas told them to stay, just as is happening now. But some had stayed. His orders, he says: assume the civilians had left.

BERNSTEIN: Whoever you see is basically engaged in fighting or is involved in fighting and, therefore, we call it engaging with fire with any home you enter, with any kind of shape of a person that you see from afar.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): In many ways, Israel's actions are playing out just as they have in the past. 2021 gun positions freshly dug, back in use.

And in Gaza, the civilian death toll, according to Palestinian health officials, already higher than in 2014. And, like then, Israel is already facing huge international pressure to avoid more civilian casualties.

JAKE SULLIVAN, U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: What we are doing is saying privately what we've said publicly, which is that all military operations should be conducted consistent with law of war, that civilians should be protected.

[00:30:06]

ROBERTSON (voice-over): The problem the IDF says it faces, just like 2014, Hamas will be hiding among civilians.

MAJ. DORON SPIELMAN, IDF SPOKESMAN: The whole situation we're talking about with Gazan civilians forcibly embedded is another element of Hamas. Hamas has to be fully defeated.

ROBERTSON: So the responsibility is on them and not you?

SPIELMAN: The responsibility is on Hamas for their own civilians. Our responsibility is to eliminate Hamas's capabilities completely.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Major Ofek pausing during training in a mocked-up Palestinian town, says they don't hurt innocents, only terrorists. But admits, if he is sent into Gaza, avoiding civilian deaths would be easy.

ROBERTSON: Do you think it's possible there to fight Hamas without civilians getting injured?

OFEK (through translator): We're concerned with overthrowing the Hamas regime and killing the terrorists who are currently in Gaza. If it will be difficult, it will be difficult. Not easy.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Outside the camp gates, as Israel's military ponder their next move, troops are saying their fond farewells.

Nic Robertson, CNN, Southern Israel.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: And joining me now to talk more about the conditions in Gaza and the urgent humanitarian appeals is Hani Almadhoun. He is the director of philanthropy for the United Nations Relief and Works Agency.

I want to get the humanitarian situation first, but I do want to say, you have family in Gaza. More than a dozen have died, as I understand it. I can't imagine that loss and how worried you are about other family members. How are they?

HANI ALMADHOUN, DIRECTOR OF PHILANTHROPY, UNITED NATIONS RELIEF AND WORKS AGENCY: Not very good. Thank you for having me and giving me and I appreciate the ability to share the concerns about what's being (ph) with my family. I'm in a personal capacity, because somebody who has family. I'm a family man in Gaza. Right now as we speak, they're not doing very well. And I'm happy to elaborate as you asked.

HOLMES: Medicins Sans Frontieres put out a statement. And -- and I just want to quote from it for you and quote from it. It says this: "Hospitals are overwhelmed. There are no more painkillers now. Our staff tells us about the wounded, screaming in pain. The injured, the sick who cannot get to the hospital."

I mean, it's so hard to comprehend that situation. No pain killers in a place that is full of wounded people. What is your understanding of the situation for civilians in Gaza? Or even those who have headed South?

ALMADHOUN: It is like judgment day. This is the end of days in Gaza right now. If people can't find water, if they can't find fuel, you know, my family is in Northern Gaza. They're unable to evacuate to where the Israeli say would be a safer zone, even though that safe zone was delayed last night.

There's a lot of confusion. There's a lot of tension in the community because people can't find bread, fighting over a loaf of bread. Fighting over some water.

And my brother was telling me today in Gaza, he isn't showered in a week. He has not -- you know, he's afraid to eat because he would need water. There is very little resources.

And, you know, my mom was telling because yesterday that the best they can get for them is dried fruits and dates. This is not humanity. America's better than this.

You know, we're the leaders of the free world. And in the first few days, the president was, you know, drumming the war drums, trying to religious fever, you know, in a way, verifying the Palestinians here and we're actually being vilified in America and also in Palestine where there's a lot of citizens.

You're talking in Gaza, where 50 percent of the population is under the age of 19. They have not had the chance to make a decision, good or bad. But there's still children. And this is where we are right now.

HOLMES: Yes, there's a lot of talk about Hamas being elected. That was 2007. There hasn't been an election since. And in that election, they were throwing their opponents off rooftops

and half the population wasn't even born. So yes, that's an important side of this.

On the humanitarian side, UNRWA says 400,000 people are in schools and buildings right now, which is unimaginable. I mean, there's word that it could be coming through the Rafah crossing three ships. And we don't know when exactly.

How urgent is that situation? How desperate for those Gazans who are waiting for -- I can't imagine those facilities. We're looking at a school right now, actually. And just packed to the gills with people. It's not meant for this.

ALMADHOUN: Absolutely. This is tragic. And I don't know how killing 1,700 (UNINTELLIGIBLE) has taken on Hamas, targeting ambulances and fire fighters, just 20 minutes ago in Gaza, is taking on Hamas. This is a tragedy that could be prevented.

Civilians should be really safe from this. You know, I have a family. I'm going to recall (ph) on this. My family is hiding somewhere in Shrur-Latva (ph) up North. They cannot find a way out.

[00:35:08]

And I hope my mother, my kids, my -- my nephews and nieces are safe. If anybody has an idea how to get them out, get them to a safe zone, get in touch with me.

HOLMES: I can't imagine the stress of that. Now, this is important. The terror attack on Israeli civilians is undeniably horrific, inexcusable.

But do you worry that Palestinians in Gaza are all being treated as guilty? Even when they don't perhaps support Hamas or what it did? But, you know, many in the world blame all Palestinians for what happened.

ALMADHOUN: Yes, absolutely. I mean, there's people who came on this network, and made genocidal statements, some other networks, as well. And nobody pushed back. It feels like our lives have less value.

Right now, we're begging the administration to get Americans out of Gaza. American citizens out of Gaza. This is, you know, why they're working hard behind the scenes.

There's a lot of tension. You know, people feel like we're not valued as much. You know, I'm sure you hear about the kid in Chicago who was killed in a hate crime today because their neighbor was, "Oh my gosh, the Palestinians are coming."

So there's a lot. You know, we need to cool it a little bit. Palestinians are not all Muslims. There's Christian Palestinians. I was at a rally at the White House yesterday, hand-in-hand with Jewish, Christians, and Muslims, and no-faith people. This is not about Muslims against Jews. As you understand, yes, the

attacks against Israel are horrific, sure. But I don't -- you know, we don't have to have a parade for that and just ignore the Palestinians.

How many dead Palestinians do you need? We have 500 kids that are dead or more by the end of the day. I'm not sure. This is horrific, and I'm going to talk about it as much as you asked. Yes.

HOLMES: And -- and to that point, I've covered a lot of wars, I've got to say and -- and including in Gaza. It strikes me that one of the risks is -- you know, people become numbers.

Are you concerned that the humanity is lost? And in fact, it's over 700 children who have been killed.

Do you worry that that's just a number and not 700 separate young lives cut short in the minds of too many people?

ALMADHOUN: You are absolutely correct. I'm talking to you now. I've lost 16 family members, 14 related and to, like, from the extended family. Those are just numbers.

Because there is the body count that's rising. We have not had a moment to reflect on all the tragedies. And that's -- that's horrific. You know, my friend was saying the best hope we have is they turns into a Facebook meme. Because nobody has time to bury. Nobody has time to grieve. They're not even allowed to gather. They're not safe at the hospital.

I live next to a host (ph) hospital. It was in the news all night. There's bombing around it because they want people to evacuate the hospital.

You know, you're talking about people in open heart surgeries, dialysis machines. I mean, are you going to? How is that acceptable?

You mentioned my brother and my U.S.A. affiliation at the beginning. All of the schools are being targeted. You know, at least 1,900 U.N. facilities have been damaged in this conflict. The staff don't feel safe. They're moving from one town to a town. They are trying to help the refugees there with shelter. And you've mentioned the number of 400,000 Palestinian refugees.

It is a school. It is not supposed to have shower. And, you know, there's a lot of complications that are not taken into consideration.

Water. This is like a crime. If Russia did it, everybody would be writing on Facebook and all of these NGOs would be speaking about it.

Now, they're beginning to speak about the atrocities happening in Gaza. But to be honest, it doesn't feel like it has teeth. There's a mismatch between the attitude of America and the West and their behavior. What we see in Gaza is horrific.

HOLMES: Hani Almadhoun, thank you so much. Appreciate your time. And our thoughts are with your family. ALMADHOUN: We appreciate you. Thanks for having me.

HOLMES: Still to come on the program, U.S. House Republicans return to Capitol Hill on -- today, actually. First on the agenda, choose a new speaker. But whether lawmakers can agree on a new leader remains to be seen. We'll have that when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:42:12]

HOLMES: U.S. President Joe Biden condemning a stabbing attack that killed a Palestinian Muslim child in Chicago. Police say 71-year-old Joseph Czuba fatally stabbed 6-year-old Wadea Al-Fayoume and seriously wounded the boy's mother, as well, in what authorities believe was a hate crime.

The mother reportedly texted the boy's father from the hospital saying Czuba, the family's landlord, had attacked the family, yelling, "You Muslims must die."

We've not yet heard from Czuba, and it's unclear if he has an attorney.

In a statement, President Biden said in part, quote, "This horrific act of hate has no place in America and stands against our fundamental values." He went on, "As Americans, we must come together and reject Islamophobia and all forms of bigotry and hatred."

Now when House Republicans gather behind closed doors in Washington on Monday evening, they will be in their 13th day of operating without a leader.

Ohio Congressman Jim Jordan is expected to force a full vote on Tuesday as he tries to become the next speaker of the House. Jordan was nominated to replace Kevin McCarthy, who became the first U.S. speaker in U.S. history to be ousted by his own party.

During Friday's nomination vote, Jordan seemed well short of the support he'll need to win the speaker's gavel. But he appeared optimistic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): I think we'll get -- I think we'll get 217 votes.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: But you will only keep running if you get 217 votes?

JORDAN: I think we'll get -- watch yourself. Watch yourself. I think we'll get 217 votes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: One senior House member who opposes the Jordan speakership tells CNN he thinks there are roughly 40 votes against him and at least 20 members willing to go to the floor on Tuesday to block Jordan's path if he tries to compel a roll call vote.

Jessica Levinson is a professor of law at Loyola Law School and host of "Passing Judgment" podcast. She joins me now from Los Angeles. Always good to see you, Jessica.

There's significant party opposition to Jim Jordan. A lot of his own people don't like him, particularly the moderates. What if he doesn't get the numbers? What then?

JESSICA LEVINSON, PROFESSOR OF LAW, LOYOLA LAW SCHOOL: Then it's going to be deja vu all over again. And we're going to have this conversation with respect to the next candidate, and there is an incredibly small possibility -- I don't think this is likely -- but it could be a Democrat. It could be Hakeem Jeffries who is able to get the few Republicans that he needs to reach that magic number, which we all know is 217.

I think the more likely scenario here is, if Jim Jordan fails, which is in fact likely, then the Republican Party will try and coalesce around some sort of coalition compromise candidate.

[00:45:09]

HOLMES: Even Republicans have said -- I mean, I heard them talking to Manu Raju and saying, we look like a bunch of idiots. And, you know, it's a circus. I mean, what do the last couple of weeks tell us about the state of the Republican Party, at least on the House side?

LEVINSON: At least on the House side, it's not a good look. It looks like they are in chaos. It looks like they cannot pick a leader. It looks like they have ground our legislative agenda, meaning the country's ability to legislate, to a halt.

And it looks like we are going to be facing another big budgetary crisis in just a few weeks. As we know, we kept the government open for 42 days. The clock is ticking. And Republicans are going to need to coalesce behind somebody and ensure that our government remains open, which is a public good for all of us.

So it looks like there is a deep rift in the party. And it looks like this might be something that Democrats can really campaign on going into the 2024 election saying, they're the ones who got us to the verge of shutting down the government. They're the ones who couldn't elect a speaker.

HOLMES: Yes, I mean, it really paralyzed half of the U.S. Congress. They can't even pass a resolution on the Israel-Gaza conflict.

But I guess -- I guess the question is, let's remember, Jim Jordan is not their first -- not their first effort either. You have Steve Scalise who then pulled out after -- after being nominated. Is there anyone that leaps to your mind who might be a consensus candidate for them? LEVINSON: It might not be who. It might be when. Meaning that, at a

certain point, as you said, Republicans are saying publicly, we don't look good. We look like clowns. This looks like chaos. So it may be that if Jim Jordan fails, that the next person who is able to make some compromises and get some additional Republicans on board to get to that 217 is the person, not because they necessarily have the legislative credentials and/or experience, but because people come to realize that we simply can't run our government this way.

HOLMES: Yes. And what about Matt Gaetz? I mean, here's the guy who started all of this by engineering Kevin McCarthy's firing, basically. Do you think he's going to emerge unscathed by the chaos? Or do you think the knives are out for him?

LEVINSON: I think the knives are out. I think Matt Gaetz is a cautionary tale when it comes to whoever is going to come next and try to not to give too many compromises too many people. Too many promises.

Part of what happened with Kevin McCarthy is that he gave competing promises. He said, I will be everything for everybody. And that was simply not ever going to be possible.

So I think Matt Gaetz there really stands as a cautionary tale against whoever takes over next, not to over promise.

In terms of what's going to happen to Matt Gaetz next, I mean, there's a lot of cameras on him. You and I are talking about him. That might not have otherwise happened. And so I believe he thinks this is really good for his profile and he, at a certain point, will be eyeing a run to be the next governor of Florida.

HOLMES: You mentioned -- you mentioned at the beginning, I mean, the -- the idea, the notion that a Democrat could end up as speaker. I mean, is that even feasible? I mean, could that happen?

LEVINSON: It absolutely could happen. It does not defy the laws of physics. It is absolutely possible, given the current House rules and procedures.

I think, given how polarized we are -- I know that's an overused word and I hate using it -- but I think that Republicans will ultimately conclude that they would rather have a Republican who they're not particularly happy with than Hakeem Jeffrey.

Let's remember that Republicans are holding onto a minority [SIC] by a very slim margin, only three votes. And they're not going to want to see their power -- I think it will be very difficult to go back to their districts and run for reelection saying, "I know we had a majority, but it ended up that we decided that a Democratic speaker of the House was better. We simply couldn't hold our caucus together to elect a Republican speaker of the House. Entirely possible. Absolutely not probable.

HOLMES: Yes, yes. We need a better word than polarized. Rhythm (ph), maybe. Jessica, always good to see you. Jessica Levinson, thank you so much.

LEVINSON: Thank you.

HOLMES: Well, exit polls show that Poland's populist ruling party is set to lose its parliamentary majority after Sunday's hard-fought election.

The opposition bloc led by former prime minister Donald Tusk appears on course to gain control if it strikes deals with smaller parties.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TUSK, FORMER POLAND PRIME MINISTER (through translator): We did it, really. I know that our dreams were even more ambitious, but I will tell you, I have been a politician for many years. I am an athlete.

[00:50:09]

I have never been so happy with this supposed second place in my life. Poland won. Democracy won.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: The results of the election are expected to have major ramifications for Poland, its direction, the balance of power in the European Union and also the future of support for Ukraine in its war with Russia.

Turning now to Afghanistan, where a 6.3 magnitude earthquake struck the Western part of the country on Sunday morning, just days after a series of quakes hit the same region.

Officials say at least 50 people were injured and hospitalized following Sunday's quake. Taliban government officials estimate more than 2,000 people were killed in that tremor on October 7, most of them, women and children.

Still to come, people across the world showing their support for the civilian victims of the Israel-Hamas war. We'll show you some of the rallies, worldwide.

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HOLMES: Around the world, people are taking to the streets to show support for both the Israelis and Palestinians. However, pro- Palestinian rallies were most prevalent on Sunday. CNN's Melissa Bell with more on that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[00:55:05]

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Palestine will be free! MELISSA BELL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Sydney,

thousands turned out to express solidarity with Palestinians and oppose Israel's military action in Gaza.

The police out in full force, as well, with organizers warning that anti-Semitic behavior that had been seen at previous protests would not be welcome. No signs of that chaos here, but the crowd's message to the Palestinian people was loud and clear.

LIQAA, DEMONSTRATOR: What's the protests going to do except spread awareness and support? We have -- we have no legitimized, legalized, any enforcement power to do anything to protect them. Shame on the government who do and don't do anything.

BELL (voice-over): Pro-Palestinian rallies have been held in cities around the world. In France and Germany, where they've been banned, demonstrators gathered regardless.

Some of the largest rallies for Palestinians were held in the Arab world. Thousands attended a rally in Turkey where crowds vented anger at both Israel and the United States.

Similar scenes of solidarity in Pakistan.

SAIMA REHEEL QAZI, DEMONSTRATOR: We -- we are seeing, from Israelis and all over the Pakistan, that the Palestinians are not alone.

BELL (voice-over): And in Tunisia, anger that more is not being done to protect Palestinians.

SAHER ELMASRI, DEMONSTRATOR (through translator): I am as a Palestinian, I am, as a son of Gaza, my people facing extermination and Gaza is being devastated. Where's the international community? Where are the Arabs? Where's the Arab conscience?

BELL (voice-over): In Tokyo a smaller crowd, but a similar plea.

AWEED SADEED, DEMONSTRATOR: And I can hear that -- show that we are united now with Muslims. They are very tired of war. Everyone is tired of conflict. Everyone wants justice.

BELL (voice-over): Melissa Bell, CNN, Paris.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: Thanks for spending part of your day with me. I'm Michael Holmes. Rosemary Church continues our coverage after the break.

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