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U.S. Currently Assesses That Israel Is Not Responsible For Deadly Gaza Hospital Blast; Video Shows Rocket Fired From Gaza Exploding Over Gaza City Moments Before Hospital Blast; Egypt Agrees To Allow Humanitarian Aid Into Gaza; Prime Suspect Confessed To Killing Natalee Holloway; Governor: 99 People Died In Maui Fires, 6 Still Missing. Aired 2-3a ET

Aired October 19, 2023 - 02:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[02:00:30]

ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, and welcome to our viewers joining us here in the United States and all around the world as we continue our coverage of Israel at war. I'm Rosemary Church. And we begin with the horrific hospital blast in Gaza City which has killed 471 people according to the Ministry of Health in Gaza, which is controlled by Hamas.

The U.S. now says intelligence suggests Israel is not responsible for the explosion as officials in Gaza have claimed. Instead, President Joe Biden echoed the explanation from Israel saying the hospital explosion was the result of an errant rocket fired by the Palestinian Islamic Jihad.

New video from Al Jazeera appears to show a rocket fired from Gaza explode in flight above Gaza City on Tuesday. Moments before the hospital blast, just a few seconds later, you can see large explosions on the ground. It's not clear at this point if these events are related.

The Palestinian Red Crescent reports explosions near another hospital in Gaza City. The group says the blast targeted residential buildings on the main street in the area. The Red Crescent says Israel ordered the group to evacuate the hospital on Saturday.

Meanwhile, Egypt says it will start allowing humanitarian aid into Gaza. President Biden says 20 trucks will pass through the Rafah crossing possibly on Friday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have an opportunity to alleviate the pain. You should do it, period. And if you don't, you're going to lose credibility worldwide. And I think everyone understands that.

(END VIDEO CLIP) CHURCH: Scores of Gaza residents have been gathering in the border city of Rafah hoping for a chance to enter Egypt. But Israeli airstrikes have hit the city as recently as this week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So currently, we're at the border. I've been coming almost every day on the hopes that it's going to open. But unfortunately, every day, there's no news. We don't know whether we can leave or stay or at least where it is safe to stay in Gaza.

So, I asked -- I asked the people out there, the people who have a heart who do care to find this a safe haven or at least get us out of Gaza.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: The U.S. is issuing security advisories throughout the Middle East as protests continue to spread. Huge crowds gathered Wednesday in cities across Jordan, Morocco, Lebanon and in the West Bank.

And CNN'S Sam Kiley has more on the geo -- lab from the hospital blast. And a warning his report contains some disturbing images.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): A blast of immediate strategic impact. Jordan canceled a summit with the U.S., Egypt and the Palestinian authority as news of mass casualty in Gaza emerged.

Now with the Hamas-controlled guards U.S. health ministry saying the death toll is over 470 from an explosion in the courtyard of this church run hospital. There are protests around the world.

And in this war, the truth is unlikely to emerge quickly. The U.S. based on his own analysis of the evidence, including Secret Intelligence has supported Israel's version of events.

BIDEN: Based on the information we've seen today, it appears as a result of an errant rocket fired by a terrorist group in Gaza.

KILEY (voiceover): Israel blames Hamas and the Islamic Jihad, a rival Islamist militant group. Islamic Jihad Hamas and other Palestinian groups say Israel did it.

CNN has geolocated videos and stills from the scene and shown all the available authentic evidence to two weapons experts. They agree that the explosion is likely not caused by an air drop bomb or even a guided missile.

CHRIS COBB-SMITH, WEAPONS EXPERT, CHIRON RESOURCES: I would initially rule out a heavy air drop bomb. The type of crater that I've seen on the imagery so far isn't large enough to be the type of bomb that we've -- that we've seen dropped in the region on many occasions.

KILEY (on camera): Could it have been a hellfire type missile? A guided munition?

COBB-SMITH: So far, I'm doubtful about.

KILEY (voiceover): Preliminary CNN analysis of the crater suggest that the projectile hit the courtyard outside the hospital from somewhere to the southwest.

[02:05:07]

The Israel Defense Forces say they believe that disaster was caused by the misfire of a missile fired from the southwest of the hospital.

KILEY (on camera): Could this have been a rocket fired from Gaza and territory that went wrong?

COBB-SMITH: It could very well have been a rocket fired from Gazan territory. But again, we only know that when the remnants are definitively identified and compared to other types of weapons systems or munitions that are being fired in the area.

KILEY (voiceover): A senior U.N. weapons expert who asked to remain anonymous, agreed. But in Gaza, many blame Israel and its allies.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): People who fled considered the hospital as a safe shelter for them. They didn't find any other place to go. But they struck people with those Israeli and American rockets. This is a war crime. It's a big crime killing children and women.

KILEY (voiceover): An independent investigation would need to be done on the ground to determine the cause of the blast, which is impossible under the current Israeli bombardment and unlikely under Hamas.

KILEY (on camera): You've worked in Gaza before, Chris, have you investigated rocket misfires in the past?

COBB-SMITH: Yes, I've tried to investigate rocket misfires in the past most certainly. But on the -- on the few occasions this has happened. And the local authorities did not give me free access to the area or were very unhappy that I was trying to -- try to investigate something that had clearly gone wrong from their point of view.

KILEY (voiceover): Amid the ongoing bloodshed in trench supporters of either side, are more likely to believe what they want now regardless.

Sam Kiley, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: Let's go live now to London where journalist Elliott Gotkine is following developments for us. Good morning to you, Elliott. So, President Biden made it clear the U.S. has now assessed that Israel was not responsible for that deadly Gaza hospital explosion. But of course, his summit with Arab leaders was canceled as a result of that blast. So, what all was achieved and what were the big messages from the U.S. president to all parties involved in this war? ELLIOTT GOTKINE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Rosemary, I suppose there were three objectives in the end for President Biden's truncated visit. First of all, was to show Israel that the U.S. really does have its back. And I suppose that was evidenced literally as President Biden got off the Air Force One onto the tarmac at Ben Gurion Airport and gave a hug to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and also President Isaac Herzog.

The other big message really was to Israel's foes in the region, principally Iran and its proxy in southern Lebanon, Hezbollah to not try to exploit the current war between Israel and Hamas to try to attack Israel. Now, there has been steadily rising tensions. It's still simmering, it's getting a little bit hotter each day, it seems with attacks from Hezbollah on Israeli positions, either attempted infiltration or anti-tank missiles being fired towards the Israelis and Israel firing back as well.

And there have been casualties on the Israeli side and also among Hezbollah fighters. So, that is simmering. It's not boiled over yet. It's not boiled over into a full-blown northern front and escalation but it is getting steadily hotter on that Northern Front. And I suppose the third and final thing and this was key, especially for America's other allies in the region is to get something out of the Israelis for the humanitarian situation which is getting worse by the day, inside the Gaza Strip.

And to that end, he secured an agreement to allow for 20 trucks to go from Egypt into the Gaza Strip carrying humanitarian supplies, namely food, water, and medicine. Fuel was pointedly not included because Israel says that when fuel does go into the Gaza Strip, it is stolen by Hamas and other militant groups. And it doesn't want to do anything to help feed the Hamsa war machine.

Of course, against this backdrop, today, President Biden in a primetime address from the Oval Office is due to speak to the American people to persuade them of the need to provide military assistance not just to Israel, but also to Ukraine, also to Taiwan and to fortify the border between the U.S. and Mexico. And I suppose what President Biden is trying to do is not just to get extra money, there's talk of $10 billion in extra military assistance to Israel, because that's pretty much a bipartisan issue. That would probably sail through Congress.

The issue really is the money for Ukraine which many Republicans have gone cold on supporting with vast sums of money. There's talk of $60 billion. So, by including things like support for Taiwan, support for Israel and support for fortifying the border between the U.S. and Mexico, President Biden will -- hoping that there will be enough there to enable people lawmakers who dissent from some of those funding arrangements to hold their noses and to vote and to allow that package to go through. Rosemary?

[02:10:10]

CHURCH: Elliott Gotkine bringing us that live report from London. Appreciate it. Well, more protests across the Middle East, including the Turkish capital of Ankara.

The U.S. consulate in Adana in southern Turkey is closed until further notice amid the protests and the State Department has issued advisory throughout the region. Both the United States and Canada are warning its citizens against traveling to Lebanon, due to the deteriorating security situation there. Protests also in Jordan.

CNN's Nada Bashir reports from Amman.

NADA BASHIR, CNN INTERNATIONAL REPORTER: Well, yet another night. Hundreds of people have gathered here in Amman to protest both in solidarity with the Palestinian people. But also, to protest against the ongoing Israeli as (INAUDIBLE) down besiege Gaza Strip. This protest is taken place quite close to the Israeli embassy here in Amman. We saw yesterday, hundreds gathering in this very same area.

Some protesters even attempting to storm the Israeli embassy. And there has been a slight increase in security presence here. But as you can see, the crowd is enormous. They are undeterred. And of course, this is taken based on the very same day that King Abdullah of Jordan was set to host a summit with U.S. President Joe Biden and the president of Egypt, as well as Mahmoud Abbas, the president for the Palestinian authority.

But as we know, that summit was called off following hat devastating and horrifying attack on Al-Ahli Hospital in Gaza. Now, of course, this has really sparked a moment of outrage, a moment of condemnation, amongst the Jordanian population, amongst the Arab population more widely. And of course (INAUDIBLE) Jordan, it's important to understand the context of 50 percent of the population here in Jordan are the Palestinian or Palestinian descent.

So, this is a cause that is central to the Jordanian identity. We've heard repeated condemnation from the Jordanian authorities, from the Jordanian royal family against Israel's airstrikes in Gaza. And of course, we are hearing repeated calls for an end to this war for an end to the violations of the rights and freedoms of the Palestinian people. And as these airstrikes continue, we are anticipating these protests happening in Jordan, these protests happening across the Arab world will only continue to grow in both size and intensity.

Nada Bashir, CNN in Amman, Jordan.

CHURCH: Coming up. Instead of a chaotic rampage, Hamas' killers were carrying out a plan, maps and other materials found on dead Hamas fighters show the killers in Israel knew exactly where to go in shocking detail. CNN investigates.

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[02:16:51]

CHURCH: Welcome back, everyone. Hamas video maps and documents obtained by CNN are revealing just how much Hamas killers knew about the Israeli communities where they slaughtered 1400 people. The material includes detailed attack plans, specific information about security and homes and even the best rooms to hold hostages.

We caution you, some of the images are graphic. And CNN's Matthew Chance shows us the chilling evidence.

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MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): CNN has gathered chilling new insights and details on the Hamas assault inside Israel. Including disturbing video taken by the attackers themselves as they rampage through Israeli homes, killing on site and then being killed.

Searches of their dead bodies revealing a trove of highly specific Hamas battle plans, including these detailed maps now shared with CNN by the Israeli government. Showing communities near Gaza like Kfar Aza targeted by the attackers. These were the terrifying scenes inside as a mass gunman recorded themselves moving freely through the gardens of Israeli home. Code red, code red, the Israeli loudspeaker blares in Hebrew, punctuating the sporadic gunfire.

After the attack, Israeli first responders saw bullet holes and bloodstains in room after room in what looks like a coldly methodical killing spree.

CHANCE (on camera): But while hundreds of Israelis were killed, some Israeli communities managed to repel the Hamas gunman and save lives. The Kibbutz Beth-El scene also near Gaza, residents pushed back Hamas attack and found documents on the bodies of the militants they killed with disturbing highly accurate intelligence on their homes.

CHANCE (voiceover): Including precise numbers of armed guards there. Regional Defense Force, at least 20 residents, one document reads. And 10 soldiers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They know basically the size of our security team. They knew about other three or four entrances to the kibbutz.

CHANCE (on camera): It sounds like they knew everything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They knew everything. Where the generators are. They knew where the armories, they knew about the rural roads around the kibbutz.

CHANCE (voiceover): Security footage shows how Hamas gunmen killed an Israeli outside the kibbutz gates before being repelled. Even with detailed intelligence on their targets. Not every Hamas objective was achieved. Nearby kibbutz, Sa'ad wasn't even attacked, although we now have documentary evidence that Hamas intended to inflict the maximum possible human casualties there and to hold hostages.

[02:20:01]

A highly detailed street map found on another Hamas gunmen and obtained by CNN shows individual buildings in Sa'ad identified and assessed for their military value. The communal kitchen, for example, is described as the main place suitable for holding hostages. Inside the guard room, the soldiers must be neutralized, the Hamas instructions say. While the kibbutz dental clinic is designated a place for first aid for both enemies and friends.

Israeli residents of Sa'ad say they also found that level of detail astounding.

SARAH POLLACK, KIBBUTZ SA'AD RESIDENT: Shockingly, the details are very accurate. The map is a map of our kibbutz. It's very accurate, it's horribly accurate.

CHANCE (on camera): If they did come to your settlement, they would have known exactly where to go, exactly where to cause the most damage.

POLLACK: Yes. And we now see that their goal was to take hostages including children.

CHANCE (voiceover): Israeli officials say they found other documents too that advise attackers to kill anyone posing a threat or causing a distraction to keep captives away from arms or means of suicide, and to use them as cannon fodder.

It is a dark turn. Even for a group seen here parading before the attacks. Let's come to symbolize the uncompromising face of Palestinian resistance and violence against Israel. Israeli officials say a document referencing ISIS and al Qaeda which CNN has not been able to authenticate was found on one Hamas gunmen killed during this attack on Kibbutz Be'eri. The document given to CNN by a senior Israeli government official praises jihad against Jews and crusaders.

Israeli officials say that evidence and mass is increasingly influenced by global jihadi ideology and assessment many experts have dismissed. But in the wake of the unprecedented brutality of these attacks, U.S. officials tell CNN the Hamas threat may now be reassessed.

Matthew Chance, CNN, Israel.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: Well, there is a glimmer of hope for Palestinians in Gaza who are desperate for humanitarian assistance. Now officials indicate the aid that's been sitting across the border in Egypt could start coming in soon. We'll have details on that on the other side of the break.

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[02:26:36]

CHURCH: Let's get you the latest now on the deadly hospital blast in Gaza. The U.S. now says intelligence suggest Israel is not responsible for the explosion as officials in Gaza have claimed. Israel has laid out evidence that it says -- shows a misfire by the militant group Islamic Jihad caused the blast. An explanation backed by U.S. President Joe Biden who cited U.S. intelligence. Mr. Biden who is now back in the U.S. after his high-stakes visit to Israel.

And this to say about the blast while speaking with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: I'm deeply saddened and outraged by the explosion at the hospital in Gaza yesterday. And based on what I've seen, it appears as though it was done by the other team. Not you. But there's a lot of people out there, not sure.

(END VIDEO CLIP) CHURCH: And that uncertainty helped fuel angry protests across the Middle East as many took to the streets shouting anti-Israel slogans following the hospital blast.

Meantime, Egypt's president has now agreed to open the Rafah crossing into Gaza to allow in humanitarian aid. And this came during a phone call with the U.S. president who says up to 20 trucks are expected to cross the border possibly on Friday.

And joining me now from Tel Aviv, Israel Defense Force's International Spokesperson Lieutenant Colonel Peter Lerner. Appreciate you talking with us.

PETER LERNER, ISRAEL DEFENSE FORCE INTERNATIONAL SPOKESPERSON: Good morning, Rosemary.

CHURCH: So, before the break, we saw Matthew Chance's chilling report on the detailed intelligence Hamas militants used to attack Israel on October 7th, even down to the number of guards at each kibbutz and the layout of homes and how many people lived in each house. Does the IDF have any idea where and how they must've got this intelligence?

LERNER: Rosemary, this is -- just goes to show the magnitude of Hamas' industry of terror. The way they utilize all of the forces of their government, all of their capabilities in order to gather intelligence, map out individual locations, points of reference, how to operate, where to breach, how -- and that's just the intelligence gathering capability that they've -- that's been exposed in Matthew's report.

And indeed, when we look at the broader aspect, we see much wider issues such as the training the equipment that they had. How -- where did they get all of their tools? So, there is indeed a lot of questions that need to be asked about how exposed we are. But of course, you know, if you go into Google Maps, you can find roads, the routes, where they attacked civilian communities.

Places like your regular suburbia, your regular farm area, wherever you are in the world. So, they have access to Open Source, they have access to people. There may have been breaches of information exposed and indeed this needs to be investigated, and in our after action, once we have rid the world of this terrorist organization, there will be an extensive investigation that will look into how they were so well prepared to butcher and murder so many people. CHURCH: And of course, in the wake of that deadly Gaza hospital explosion on Tuesday, U.S. President Joe Biden called for a rigorous review, and now the U.S. has assessed Israel was not responsible for that deadly blast.

[02:30:00]

But many in the Middle East say they are not convinced, so how do you change their perception? Is that even possible in the midst of war?

LERNER: I think the biggest challenge is opposing Hamas' manipulation, mass manipulation, of sentiment. And this is a call for caution for all people that are following the situation, not to listen to what Hamas is saying. This is an organization that butchers babies in their bedrooms. They'll have no problem lying to journalists, or fabricating stories, or inventing stories.

So I would say, yeah, when we try taking out of the real world to the media reflection of what's happening in the real world, there's a lot of caution and suspicion that needs to be taken regarding Hamas and the reports that are coming out from Gaza, because everything is under control there. Just like in North Korea. There is no free press, there is no free coverage.

When it filters over beyond the region, of course, then there is the world networks that have a huge responsibility to make sure that they have all of the facts, because if things that Hamas is saying ignite mass protests because of something that didn't happen, like the explosion in the hospital, it was caused by Palestinian Islamic Jihad rocket that malfunctioned, then we have to be very aware, and I would say even afraid, that that eventuality can happen.

This just goes to show that in this day and age of the media- saturated, or social media-saturated world, how much responsibility individuals have, how much responsibility we have as responsible organizations, bodies, how much responsibility the media has in convening what is actually happening on the ground in order to contain fabrications, misinformation, and disinformation that can be aggravated in order to create a much broader regional distress.

We've talked about, Rosemary, over the attacks on the border with Lebanon by Hezbollah, and we know for a fact that Iran are trying to aggravate the situation. So there's an interest to try and make a broader issue out of this attack against our people. And we need to be very focused, and I'd say from our perspective try and contain that, be factual, be accurate, be timely, and this perhaps is always the challenge when social media is setting the pace, and we are trying to keep up with images that are very dramatic, and I would say extremely painful and heartbreaking.

But this is the responsibility of decent organizations that want to reflect what's happening on the ground.

CHURCH: Yes. And that is a task we take very seriously here at CNN. Israel Defense Forces Spokesperson Lieutenant Colonel Peter Lerner, thank you so much for your time. Appreciate it. LERNER: Thank you Rosemary, good day.

CHURCH: Well now to Gaza where aid is still desperately needed. Israel cut the flow of food, electricity, and fuel into the enclave at the beginning of the current crisis. And officials are warning that Gaza is running seriously and dangerously low on the most basic supplies. Becky Anderson has more.

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BECKY ANDERSON, CNNI ANCHOR (voice-over): This is where international aid should be flowing into Gaza. But it's been eerily quiet. Vital life-sustaining humanitarian aid has been piling up, stuck in no man's land on the wrong side of the border while agencies sound the alarm on an accelerating humanitarian crisis. Now there are signs of a breakthrough. On Wednesday, hours after a deadly blast at a hospital in Gaza, US President Joe Biden landed on his wartime visit to Israel. Hours later, he delivered these remarks.

JOE BIDEN, US PRESIDENT: I asked the Israeli cabinet, who I met with for some time this morning, to agree to the delivery of lifesaving humanitarian assistance to civilians in Gaza. Based on the understanding that there will be inspections, and that the aid should go to civilians, not to Hamas. Israel agreed the humanitarian assistance can begin to move from Egypt to Gaza.

ANDERSON (voice-over): But in a statement Wednesday, Israel said it will not allow any aid into Gaza from its own territory until all hostages held by Hamas are released. Following the announcement, I asked the Jordanian foreign minister for his reaction.

AYMAN SAFADI, JORDANIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: We are all working for a cease-fire that would allow the delivery of humanitarian supplies to Gaza. So, talk of cease-fire is continuing. Talk of allowing supplies is continuing. Talk of a decision to end the war is continuing. So we're all working towards that, and any step in that direction is definitely a welcomed step.

[02:35:06]

ANDERSON (voice-over): President Biden now says he is working with the UN to get aid trucks moving as quickly as possible. But even when that flow of aid can begin, its route has been badly damaged by Israeli airstrikes.

SAMEH SHOUKRY, EGYPTIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: Currently there's a long, miles-long convoy of humanitarian assistance between Arish and Rafah with trucks on the side of the road awaiting the possibility of entering Gaza. The Rafah crossing over the last days has been bombed four times.

DR. TOM POTOKAR, CHIEF SURGEON, INTL. COMMITTEE OF THE RED CROSS: There's a lot of infrastructure that has been destroyed, obviously, the lack of fuel, the lack of water, the lack of food is going to compound the situation. The difficulties with moving around due to security, but also just to blockages from rubble, et cetera, and unexploded munitions.

ANDERSON (voice-over): For Gaza citizens, the deadly waiting game means lifelines are fast running out. The Palestinian health ministry says hospitals are collapsing without fuel. And the World Food Programme warns that shops in Gaza will run out of food in mere days.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): There is no water. There is no water at all. Medicines for children, food, drinking, there are no supplies at all in the Gaza strip. It's not just me. All of the Gaza strip is suffering. All of the families in Gaza are suffering.

ANDERSON (voice-over): Becky Anderson, CNN, Tel Aviv.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: Beneath Gaza lay hundreds of miles of secret tunnels. If and when Israel sends ground troops into Gaza, this is probably where they will have to fight it out.

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CHURCH: Welcome back everyone, for any Israeli ground incursion into Gaza will eventually have to deal with what the IDF calls The Gaza Metro.

[02:40:07]

It is a vast network of tunnels beneath Gaza. And clearing them out poses an especially thorny tactical problem for Israeli troops. CNN's Tom Foreman explains.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: As much as we hear about the tunnels under Gaza there really aren't many photos or eyewitness accounts as to exactly what they are compared to the importance of them. Generally, many of them seem to be dug by hand, relatively small, and then they're reinforced with concrete so they can't easily be collapsed. How big is this network?

Well think about this, Gaza itself is only about 25 by six miles, and yet the indication from some experts says there may be more than three hundred miles of tunnels underneath that. The depth, unknown. Maybe it's a few meters, maybe it's a whole lot more. And many of them appear fairly cramped. Possible uses? Well, hiding command centers, weapons caches, rocketry, and yes maybe even hostages.

Secret movement of key Hamas figures, so they might be in this part of the area, and go to this part of the area and be undetected because they can't be spied by satellites or people who are trying to look with drones or anything else. And they would represent a safe place in this small area. Relatively safe, in that a lot of conventional weapons would not easily penetrate this.

But in fact you might have to bring in bigger, sort of bunker buster bombs if somebody really wanted to be able to go through the reinforcement and of all of the earth to get underneath. But that is why this is a focus, not only for Hamas, but for the Israelis too. CHURCH: Christopher O'Leary joins me now from New York. He is the senior vice president for global operations at the Soufan Group. Until last month, he served as the director of hostage recovery for the US government. Appreciate you talking with us.

CHRISTOPHER O'LEARY, SR. VICE PRESIDENT, GLOBAL OPERATIONS, SOUFAN GROUP: Happy to be here.

CHURCH: So Israel believes 199 hostages are being held in Gaza. Hamas says they have more than two hundred, perhaps even 250 hostages. However many they're holding, that is a lot of people who need food, water, and other basic necessities. What conditions would they be living under, right now? And do you assume they are all being held in the underground tunnel system in various locations?

O'LEARY: So traditionally speaking, Hamas has treated their hostages well. They are currency for Hamas. You know if you reflect back to one of their more infamous cases where they took a Israeli soldier, they held him for over five years, but then traded him years later for over a hundred Palestinian prisoners.

So it is in their interest to treat the hostage as well. Secondly, because there is international hostages who have dual citizenship from places like the United States, the UK, France, and others, there is an international call to ensure that they are being treated well. So the assumption would be, they are treating them well.

Hamas, like other groups who have demonstrated a capacity and almost a profession in hostage taking over the years, have this down to a science. And although they are not rational actors in many other ways, they will act in a rational way this way because it's transactional.

CHURCH: So given all of those complexities, how will it be possible to secure their safe release? What is the process, as the United States and Qatar work together on this delicate diplomatic mission, involving hostages as you say from more than 40 countries, including an unknown number of Americans?

O'LEARY: Yeah, so I would say there's a couple of things going on, contemporaneously. Number one, both Israel, the UnitedStates that has surged intelligence resources to assist and other international partners, they're looking to fully identify each hostage, going through that initial video feed from each of the capturers, some of which was taken on other cell phones, some of it was broadcast by Hamas.

All of that data is being exploited, they are trying to fully identify each hostage. But they are also trying to identify Hamas members, and illuminate the network we call it, to try to find out who they're connected to, what their historic bed down locations are, to try to find out where the hostages may be taken. But again, as I said, this is an active war zone. It's a massive amount of hostages, there is nothing like it in the modern era that we can point to.

CHURCH: Now we have seen various reports that suggest Hamas is offering to release the hostages, perhaps the women and children, if Israel stops bombing Gaza.

[02:45:05]

How real is an offer like that, from an organization like Hamas? And how do you negotiate that, when Israel is calling for the total destruction of Hamas?

O'LEARY: So going through legitimate partners, like the Qataris, who have a powerful voice both inside Gaza with Hamas, and have legitimacy throughout the Middle East, but they also have demonstrated real good faith with the United States over the last few years. They have been leading the charge to assist the United States with the Taliban, and with Haqqanis, and very delegate negotiations, as well as with the Iranians in more recent negotiations.

They have really demonstrated a desire and propensity to be involved in conflict resolution. That's why they're looking to get involved. Hamas cannot ignore their involvement. And it is a reasonable request to release women and children. It's also a reasonable request to release any foreign nationals who might have a dual passport.

And there have been indications by Hamas that they're willing to do that. Also anybody that is wounded, and traditionally in any armed conflict all of these things would be done. If Hamas wants to be taken seriously, they need to move forward with these actions. If not they will not be considered a viable partner in an ingratiation.

CHURCH: Christopher O'Leary, thank you so much for joining us. Appreciate it.

O'LEARY: Thank you for having me.

CHURCH: After failing to win a second vote, US Republican Congressman Jim Jordan vows to stay in the race to be speaker of the House. We'll have details for you after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[02:50:45]

CHURCH: Welcome back everyone. Well as the Biden administration grapples with wars in Ukraine and Gaza and a potential government shutdown next month, the US House of Representatives eemains in limbo, unable to do any work until the elected new speaker. Two weeks after Republicans ousted Kevin McCarthy. Well on Wednesday, conservative Republican Congressman Jim Jordan lost a second round of voting as more Republicans voted against him.

Despite the loss, Jordan is vowing to stay in the race, a third round of voting is expected in the coming hours. While meantime, some Republicans are pushing a resolution that would grant more power to interim Speaker Patrick McHenry, until a speaker is elected. CNN's senior political analyst, Ron Brownstein, joins me now for more on this political chaos. Always good to have you with us to sort through this. So, the House remains paralyzed, as Republicans again failed to elect

a new speaker, Jim Jordan losing a second vote, as we said, but planning a third just in the coming hours in fact, noon today. How will that likely go? Does he have a path forward here?

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well you know, we have used the word unprecedented an unprecedented amount of times since Donald Trump emerged as the de facto leader of the Republican party. But we are once again in an unprecedented situation, an unprecedented level of chaos, an unprecedented vote to vacate the chair and remove a speaker.

Jim Jordan I think faces very long odds of ever being speaker of the House. His strategy was to bring this to the floor, force his opponents to vote publicly against him, and try to turn the full fire hose force of the MAGA Trump movement and all of its allies in conservative media against them and try to break their will and eventually grind them down into supporting him. But the pressure that he has applied has, if anything, only solidified the opposition against him.

And you've had members, Republican members, publicly complaining about death threats, or threatening messages to their families, after voting against Jordan. A reminder of how much our politics has changed in the Trump era, and how much the threat of violence has become woven into our politics in the Trump era. But one in which I think is gonna create a further headwind for Jim Jordan and deepen the suspicion of him among some members of the caucus.

CHURCH: Yeah and of course we're seeing Republican frustration growing. Some even calling themselves dysfunctional. Others, as you mentioned, getting death threats for refusing to support Jordan. I mean it's just incredible. So what happens if Jordan loses a third vote, and how likely is it that Republicans will decide to go for the option of expanding the powers of interim Speaker Patrick McHenry as a way out of this chaos at least. Can that actually be done?

BROWNSTEIN: Well first, let's just keep in mind that in many ways the most remarkable thing here is not that Jim Jordan is apparently going to fall short. It's that roughly 90 percent of House Republicans have been willing to elevate to the speakership the member of Congress who was the most intimately involved, not only is a supporter, but as a collaborator and participant in Trump's effort to subvert the 2020 election and overturn the result.

There was no one as Liz Cheney said, who knew more about Donald Trump's plans than Jim Jordan. And yet that is not disqualifying for two hundred House Republicans, very similar to what we are seeing in the Republican presidential race. I think that Jordan's inclination is to try to keep pushing forward on the theory that I mentioned, of kind of using the conservative media ecosystem in the MAGA movement to grind down appointments.

But I suspect that the tolerance and patience within the conference for that kind of behavior is going to diminish, you know, erode very quickly. And he can see substantially more defections if he goes past a third ballot and potentially even on a third ballot.

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Could they expand the power of the temporary speaker, Patrick McHenry? Potentially. But I think there are going to be Republicans who are dubious of doing that, which means they will need Democratic votes in all likelihood to do that, which means they're probably going to have to make some concessions to Democrats.

So it could be awhile before we see a solution to this, although that seems like the likeliest way out, because even if Jordan steps aside, it's certainly not apparent that there is somebody who can immediately unify the Republican conference and replace him. So expanding the power of the temporary speaker might be the path of least resistance.

CHURCH: Right, absolutely. Well we'll watch to see, we're going to know in a few hours. Ron Brownstein, many thanks for joining us as always, appreciated.

BROWNSTEIN: Thanks for having me.

CHURCH: Well the man long suspected in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway in 2005 has finally confessed to killing her and disposing of her body. Joran van der Sloot's confession was made public on Wednesday soon after he pleaded guilty in US Federal Court to try to extort the Holloway family. He is currently in prison in Peru for killing another woman in 2010.

Holloway vanished on a high school graduation trip to Aruba in 2005, and was legally declared dead in 2012. The body was never found. van der Sloot's confession revealed he murdered Holloway after she rejected his advances, then pushed her body into the ocean. Authorities in Hawaii have revised the number of dead and missing from the wildfires that ravaged Maui in August.

Hawaii Governor Josh Green announced on Wednesday a total of 99 people died during the Lahaina fires. Six people are still unaccounted for. He also said Maui county and the Environmental Protection Agency have cleared about 1100 of the 1500 burned lots and schools have started in the past week. I appreciate your company this hour. I'm Rosemary Church, I'll be back with more CNN NEWSROOM in just a moment. Do stay with us.

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