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Israel "Not Responsible" for Deadly Gaza Hospital Blast; Interview with Palestinian National Initiative President Dr. Mustafa Barghouti; Biden Touting Progress on Humanitarian Aid for Gaza; Egypt Promised to Allow at Least 20 Aid Trucks to Cross Border; U.K. Prime Minister Sunak in Tel Aviv; Hamas's Plans for a Massacre; Hospital Blast Prompts International Protests; Biden Planning to Deliver a Primetime Address; Egypt Allowing Humanitarian Aid into Gaza. Aired 4- 4:30a ET

Aired October 19, 2023 - 04:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:00:00]

BIANCA NOBILO, CNN HOST: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us in the United States and all around the world. I'm Bianca Nobilo.

MAX FOSTER, CNN HOST: And I'm Max Foster joining you live from London.

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Becky Anderson in Tel Aviv with our continuing coverage of Israel at war.

Well, the Hamas controlled Ministry of Health reports 471 people have been killed in Tuesday's horrific hospital blast in Gaza City. And the United States now echoing Israel's claim that the explosion was the result of an errant rocket fired by the Palestinian Islamic jihad.

New video appears to show a rocket fired from Gaza exploding high above Gaza City just before the blast at that hospital. And on the ground, this was the moment of the explosion outside the hospital. CNN has not determined if these Events are related.

President Joe Biden says he believes U.S. intelligence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: I don't say things like that unless I have faith in the source from which I've gotten. The people at the Defense Department who I respect and the Intelligence Community that I respect, it is highly improbable that Israel did that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Well, Islamic jihad denies Israel's assertions as false and baseless. And Arab countries have almost universally blamed Israel for the blast.

CNN's Alex Marquardt has more on why the U.S. says it doesn't look like Israel is responsible for that deadly blast at the Gaza hospital.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): The explosion rocked Northern Gaza and lit up the night sky. Another angle appearing to show, according to a CNN analysis, a rocket fired from inside Gaza. It explodes in the air, and seconds later, a blast is seen at the al-Ahli Baptist Hospital. CNN has not determined definitively that the rocket and the explosion are related. But in Tel Aviv today, President Joe Biden said U.S. intelligence matches Israel's version of what happened.

BIDEN: Based on the information we've seen to date it appears the result of an errant rocket fired by a terrorist group in Gaza.

MARQUARDT (voiceover): Biden didn't name the group, but Israel says it's Palestinian Islamic jihad, which is allied with Hamas and linked to Iran. The American assessment, less than 24 hours after the deadly strike, was based on what the White House now says is intelligence, missile activity and open-source video and images of the incident. The statement adding that some Palestinian militants in Gaza themselves believe it was carried out by Islamic jihad.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For the U.S. now to weigh in and the U.S. president to weigh in on this, this does strongly suggest this was likely not the Israelis.

MARQUARDT (voiceover): The Israeli military published recordings it claims are audio intercepts of Hamas militants acknowledging the rocket came from inside Gaza.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's from us?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It looks like it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who says this?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are saying that the shrapnel from the missile is local shrapnel and not like Israeli shrapnel.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They shot it coming from the cemetery behind the Al-Ma'amdani Hospital, and it misfired and fell on them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a cemetery behind it?

MARQUARDT (voiceover): CNN cannot independently verify them. It's part of a vigorous Israeli effort to prove it wasn't their rocket, arguing the damage from the strike was far lighter than the bombs they usually drop from the air. Assaults that have left buildings across Gaza flattened and huge craters in the ground.

At the hospital today, charred vehicles littered the parking lot, which is pockmarked and has a small crater. Sources tell CNN that Israel shared its intelligence with the U.S. And taken together, the U.S. now believes that the body of evidence paints a solid picture.

SETH JONES, DIRECTOR, CSIS INTERNATIONAL SECURITY PROGRAM: You have to piece it together with other sources of information not just from that ally, because that may be biased.

MARQUARDT (voiceover): But the public outcry and blame of Israel were swift and fierce. Biden's summit in Jordan with Arab leaders was cancelled as crowds in the streets grew.

BIDEN: I can understand why in this circumstance they wouldn't believe. I can understand that. And -- but I would not -- if you notice, I would never say things like that unless I have faith in the source.

[04:05:00]

MARQUARDT (voiceover): The fury now threatening to deepen the crisis, even before Israel launches a possible invasion of Gaza.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Alex Marquardt reporting there. Well, I bring in Dr. Mustafa Barghouti, who is the president of the Palestinian National Initiative and a member of the Palestinian parliament, joining me now from Ramallah in the West Bank. It's good to have you, sir.

We are hearing reports that the IDF has conducted raids in the West Bank and arrested several, perhaps even hundreds of Palestinians. I do, with you, want to concentrate on what you can tell us about what is happening there, what you are seeing on the ground, sir.

DR. MUSTAFA BARGHOUTI, PRESIDENT, PALESTINIAN NATIONAL INITIATIVE: There is a massive Israeli operation to arrest Palestinians. Our information is that no less than 700 Palestinians have -- additional Palestinians have been arrested during the last 10 days, and every night they are conducting more and more arrests.

The number of Palestinian prisoners now in Israeli jails is up to 6,300, including more less than 1,500 of people who are in jail without knowing why. They're not charged, they're not taken to court, there is no due legal process, and that's what they call administrative detention, including, by the way, no less than 200 children who are now in Israeli jails.

But in addition to that, what we face here, which is very serious, is settler terror. The settlers are attacking several communities and several villages. So far, 20 Palestinian communities in Ramallah and Hebron area in Jordan Valley have been evicted from their homes by Israeli settlers protected by the Israeli army.

And sometimes they kill people like has happened in Kusra, which is a Palestinian village in the north near Nablus, where the settlers attacked the village, killed three people. The army then came and killed a fourth person. And on the next day, during the funeral of these four people, the settlers attacked again and killed the father and his son.

ANDERSON: And Mr. Barghouti, we were in Al-Khutra (ph) two days ago, we reported on that story. We met a family who were driven -- or who were leaving their home because they felt they simply couldn't stay. It was the home that was originally attacked, and at the heart of that incident.

So, we were told by the mayor of Al-Khutra (ph) that the violence against settlers, this ongoing violence -- the violence against the Palestinian residents by settlers, sorry, this ongoing violence is driving young Palestinians, he said, towards combat. He said that they would rather die in combat than be humiliated and killed in their homes. We are seeing escalating violence in the West Bank. How concerned are you?

DR. BARGHOUTI: Very much so. 50 percent of Palestinians in Gaza as -- are children and 50 percent -- about 78 percent of the Palestinians in the West Bank are young people and children. And of course, these people have no hope. And what they see is continuous aggression on them. They see their people being killed. They say -- they see that Israel has -- is not subjected to any form of accountability.

And especially now, with this western support to Israel. Israel feels completely impunitive to international law. And they are encouraging these settlers. One of the main reasons why this whole situation exploded in Gaza was that during -- because -- before the war started in Gaza, no less than 248 Palestinians were killed by settlers in the West Bank and by the army, and 40 of them were children. More than that, settlers tried to burn whole towns like Hawara and Turmus Ayya, where American Palestinians live. And they burned houses. They burned cars. They threatened people. They killed.

ANDERSON: Mustafa --

DR. BARGHOUTI: So, of course, there is -- there are acts of terror. But the most important thing is that there is no accountability.

ANDERSON: So -- and we know that Hamas used these incidents to embolden and justify their own actions. Nobody, of course, accepting, in any way that -- you know, what Hamas did against the Israeli population on October 7th, but they -- but this fuels their -- you know, their propaganda in what it is that they are able to do, you know, under the banner of supporting Palestinians, of course.

[04:10:00]

We know Israel's aim is to dismantle Hamas in the Gaza Strip. And I know I've heard you say time and time again, Hamas does not represent the Palestinian people. If Israel succeeds in "annihilating Hamas," what comes next? What's the endgame here? Will the PLO return to Gaza? What's the endgame, sir?

DR. BARGHOUTI: I don't think this is the Israeli plan. I think the original -- Israelis not attack Hamas only, Israel is attacking the whole population of Gaza. They are annihilating the population of the north and the center of the Gaza at this moment.

3,472 Palestinians have been killed so far, including no less than 1,300 children. And in my opinion, the Israeli original plan was to clinic -- to ethnically cleanse all of Gaza, force people out of Gaza to Egypt and then to annex Gaza. Netanyahu did not hide that. He showed the world the map of Israel in the United Nations, which included all of the West Bank and all of Gaza. And if he had succeeded in ethnically cleansed Gaza, he would move to the West Bank and try to ethnically cleanse it, too. That's what Jordan understood, and that's what Egypt understood.

Now, that Egypt stood very strong against this plan, he's moving to plan B, which is evicting and ethnically cleansing the north and center of Gaza. That's what's happening now, today, 1.1 million people have been forced out of their homes.

ANDERSON: Can it --

DR. BARGHOUTI: 76,000 houses have already been destroyed by Israeli airstrikes. Israel says that they have the right to respond. OK, they responded. 3,472 billion -- 3,472 Palestinians have been killed. How many more thousands of Palestinians should be killed? I think the immediate need now, Becky, for the sake of Palestinians and Israelis is cease fire. We need immediate cease fire to stop this atrocity, this collective punishment also for the sake of Israeli prisoners, which Netanyahu bombards and kills.

ANDERSON: Yes. That's --

DR. BARGHOUTI: Already 22 Israeli prisoners were killed by --

ANDERSON: And that is a conversation that we -- yes. The conversation about it ceasefire is one we know is going on behind the scenes, you know, on these diplomatic tracks. We know that Qatar mediating between Hamas, the U.S. and Israel on trying to get the release of these hostages says that they need to see a temporary ceasefire at least in order to affect some movement on that. It seems that Israel is resistance to that -- is resistant to that temporary ceasefire at this point.

Is there any one country, at this point, is there any single individual or country who can be the voice of reason now, do you believe between all parties?

DR. BARGHOUTI: I don't know if there is a person who can be accepted as a mediator between all parties. Maybe Guterres can be -- can play that role, but I don't think he has the sufficient strength to do so.

But I think the one person who could stop all these atrocities immediately is President Biden. But to do that he has to stop saying that he's teaming up with the Israelis and calls him -- calls them our team. He cannot be on the team of one side while one side is committing war crimes against the other. He has to be -- he has to take a different position. And that's why I think the United States much -- must immediately change its position and allow the passage of a resolution in the Security Council to have immediate ceasefire.

There is one country in the world that has leverage over Israel and can stop these atrocities, for the sake of Palestinians and Israelis, and that is the United States of America.

ANDERSON: Mustafa Barghouti, it's good to have you joining us today from Ramallah in the West Bank, where sadly over this past 11, 12 days we have seen significant uptick in violence there, demonstrations on the streets in in support of the Palestinian people, reminding the world that the plight of the Palestinian people should not be overlooked.

Well, there is a glimmer of hope in Gaza that desperately needed humanitarian aid could start coming in. Israel said it will allow some aid to come from Egypt following yesterday's trip by U.S President Joe Biden to Tel Aviv, while Egypt promised to allow at least 20 aid trucks to cross the border, according to Mr. Biden. Aid has been piling up in Egypt, as we know, for days, but it is -- it's been unable to get into Gaza through that border crossing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[04:15:00]

ANDERSON (voiceover): This is where international aid should be flowing into Gaza, but it's been eerily quiet. Vital life-sustaining humanitarian aid has been piling up, stuck in no man's land on the wrong side of the border, while agencies sound the alarm on an accelerating humanitarian crisis.

Now, there are signs of a breakthrough. On Wednesday, hours after a deadly blast at a hospital in Gaza, U.S. President Joe Biden landed on his wartime visit to Israel. Hours later, he delivered these remarks.

BIDEN: I asked the Israeli cabinet, who I've met with for some time this morning, to agree to the delivery of life-saving humanitarian assistance to civilians in Gaza, based on the understanding that there will be inspections and that the aid should go to civilians, not to Hamas. Israel agreed the humanitarian assistance can begin to move from Egypt to Gaza.

ANDERSON (voiceover): But in a statement Wednesday, Israel said it will not allow any aid into Gaza from its own territory until all hostages held by Hamas are released. Following the announcement, I asked the Jordanian foreign minister for his reaction.

AYMAN SAFADI, JORDANIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: We're all working for a ceasefire that would allow the delivery of the humanitarian supplies to Gaza. So, talk of ceasefire is continuing. Talk of allowing supplies is continuing. Talk of a decision to end the war is continuing. So, we're all working towards that. And any step in that direction is definitely a welcome step.

ANDERSON (voiceover): President Biden now says he is working with the U.N. to get aid trucks moving as quickly as possible. But even when that flow of aid can begin, its route has been badly damaged by Israeli airstrikes.

SAMEH SHOUKRY, EGYPTIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: Well, currently there's a long -- miles long convoy of humanitarian assistance between Arish and Rafah with trucks on the side of the road awaiting the possibility of entering Gaza. The Rafah Crossing, over the last days, has been bombed four times. DR. TOM POTOKAR, CHIEF SURGEON, INTERNATIONAL COMMITTEE OF THE RED CROSS: There's a lot of infrastructure that has been destroyed. Obviously, the lack of fuel, the lack of water, the lack of food is going to compound the situation, the difficulties with moving around due to security, but also just to blockages from rubble, et cetera and unexploded munitions.

ANDERSON (voiceover): For Gaza's citizens, the deadly waiting game means lifelines are fast running out. The Palestinian Health Ministry says hospitals are collapsing without fuel. And the World Food Programme warns that shops in Gaza will run out of food in mere days.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): There is no water. There is no water at all. Medicines for children, food, drinking, there are no supplies at all in the Gaza Strip. It's not just me, all of the Gaza Strip is suffering. All of the families in Gaza are suffering.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON (on camera): Well, a day after U.S. President Joe Biden visited Israel, British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak is the latest Western ally to travel to Israel to show support. The prime minister expected to meet with both the president and prime minister of Israel, according to his official X account. Mr. Sunak also hopes to meet with the leaders of the "wider region" during his visit.

Well, rather than a chaotic rampage, Hamas killers were carrying out a detailed plan. Maps and other materials found on dead Hamas fighters show the killers in Israel knew exactly where to go in shocking detail. CNN investigates that, coming up.

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[04:20:00]

NOBILO: Hamas video, maps and documents obtained by CNN are revealing just how much Hamas killers knew beforehand about the Israeli communities where they slaughtered some 1,400 people.

FOSTER: The material includes detailed attack plans, specific information about security in homes and even the best places to hold hostages. We caution you, some of the images are graphic, as CNN's Matthew Chance shows us the chilling evidence.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): CNN has gathered chilling new insights and details on the Hamas assault inside Israel, including disturbing video taken by the attackers themselves as they rampaged through Israeli homes, killing on sight, and then being killed.

Searches of their dead bodies revealing a trove of highly specific Hamas battle plans, including these detailed maps now shared with CNN by the Israeli government, showing communities near Gaza, like Kfar Aza targeted by the attackers. These were the terrifying scenes inside, as Hamas gunmen recorded themselves moving freely through the gardens of Israeli homes. Code red, code red, the Israeli loudspeaker blares in Hebrew punctuating the sporadic gunfire.

After the attack, Israeli first responders saw bullet holes and bloodstains in room after room in what looks like a coldly methodical killing spree.

CHANCE: But while hundreds of Israelis were killed, some Israeli communities managed to repel the Hamas gunmen and save lives. At Kibbutz Mefelsim, also near Gaza, residents pushed back a Hamas attack and found documents on the bodies of the militants they killed, with disturbing highly accurate intelligence on their (INAUDIBLE).

CHANCE (voiceover): Including precise numbers of armed guards there. Regional Defense Force, at least 20 residents, one document reads, and 10 soldiers.

YARDEN RESKIN, KIBBUTZ MEFALSIM RESIDENT: They knew basically the size of our security team. They knew about other three or four entrances to the kibbutz.

[04:25:00]

CHANCE: It sounds like they knew everything.

RESKIN: They knew everything. Where the generators are. They knew where the armory is. They knew about rural roads around the kibbutz.

CHANCE (voiceover): Security footage shows how Hamas gunmen killed an Israeli outside the kibbutz gates, before being repelled. Even with detailed intelligence on their targets, not every Hamas objective was achieved.

Nearby kibbutz Sa'ad, wasn't even attacked. Although we now have documentary evidence that Hamas intended to inflict the maximum possible human casualties there and to hold hostages. A highly detailed street map found on another Hamas gunman and obtained by CNN shows individual buildings in Sa'ad identified and assessed for their military value.

The communal kitchen, for example, is described as the main place suitable for holding hostages. Inside the guard room, the soldiers must be neutralized, the Hamas instructions say. While the kibbutz dental clinic is designated a place for first aid for both enemies and friends. Israeli residents of Sa'ad say they also found that level of detail astounding.

SARAH POLLACK, KIBBUTZ SA'AD RESIDENT: Shockingly, the details are very accurate. The map is a map of our kibbutz, it's very accurate. It's horribly accurate.

CHANCE: If they'd have come to your settlement, they would have known exactly where to go, exactly where to cause the most damage.

POLLACK: Yes. And we now see that their goal was to take hostages, including children.

CHANCE (voiceover): Israeli officials say they found other documents too that advise attackers to kill anyone posing a threat or causing a distraction, to keep captives away from arms or means of suicide, and to use them as cannon fodder.

It is a dark turn. Even for a group seen here parading before the attacks, that's come to symbolize the uncompromising face of Palestinian resistance and violence against Israel.

Israeli officials say a document referencing ISIS and al-Qaeda, which CNN has not been able to authenticate, was found on one Hamas gunman killed during this attack on kibbutz Be'eri. The document given to CNN by a senior Israeli government official praises jihad against Jews and crusaders. Israeli officials say that's evidence Hamas is increasingly influenced by global jihadi ideology, an assessment many experts have dismissed.

But in the wake of the unprecedented brutality of these attacks, U.S. officials tell CNN the Hamas threat may now be reassessed.

Matthew Chance, CNN Israel.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NOBILO: Still ahead, the deadly hospital blast in Gaza triggers international outrage despite U.S. intelligence assessing, now at least, that Israel was not responsible. We'll show you the protests after the break.

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