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Israeli Tanks, Troops Line Gaza Border For Possible Incursion; Detroit Synagogue President Found Dead; Aid Trucks Deliver Medical Supplies, Food, Water To Gaza; Rep. Tim Burchett (R-TN) Discusses House Speaker Race After GOP Dumps Jordan; Two Trump Lawyers Plead Guilty To GA Election Interference. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired October 21, 2023 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:01:04]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: Welcome to our continuing coverage of "Israel at War." I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.

We begin this hour with a growing death toll in the war. Minutes ago, the Hamas-run government media reported that 248 people have died in Gaza just in the last 24 hours. Palestinian health officials say more than 4300 people have died in Gaza since the start of the war. That number almost certain to rise just as Israel's military says it is increasing airstrikes beginning today.

This is new CNN video showing Israeli troops and machinery positioned along the border, awaiting the order to launch a ground invasion of Gaza. Israel's top military leaders are telling commanders that forces, quote, "will enter Gaza."

For the first time since the war began two weeks ago, humanitarian aid briefly rolled into Gaza, but the Rafah Border Crossing between Egypt and Gaza is closed again after that 20-truck convoy made its way through. Relief agencies, in the meantime, say additional shipments of water, fuel, and food are urgently needed and that Gaza's hospital system is teetering on the verge of collapse.

And one day after being freed by Hamas, an American mother and daughter are one step closer to reaching U.S. soil. Judith Tai Raanan and her 17-year-old daughter Natalie are reuniting with family today at an Israeli military base. Natalie's father says she is expecting her home by Tuesday for her 18th birthday.

And joining me now is the former Israeli ambassador to the United States, Michael Oren.

Ambassador Oren, thank you very much for joining us. Let's begin, if we can, with some good news, for a change, and that is the release of this American mother and daughter. What's your response to that? And why do you think that this is happening now?

MICHAEL OREN, FORMER ISRAELI AMBASSADOR TO THE U.S.: Well, thank you, Jim. Thank you for having me. Well, we're delighted that Judith and Natalie are being reunited with their family. We want all the hostages to be reunited with their families unconditionally at once. And that would be very, very welcome. It's no substitute for our need to deal with Hamas, to uproot and destroy Hamas.

ACOSTA: And do you think Israel has delayed a ground incursion to allow more time to negotiate the release of hostages? Do you think that's entering the equation here? And do you think that should be urged at this point? If there is some progress in getting hostages out, maybe now is the time to hold off a little bit. What do you think?

OREN: No, I think that our clocks, our schedules, are not timed to Hamas' clocks. We have many, by the way. For example, we have 360,000 reservists who have been called up. These are people who have left their jobs, their families, their children. They can't remain mobilized forever. That is a clock, certainly.

There's a clock of moving the Palestinian civilian population away from the battle area to reduce civilian casualties as much as possible. That is progressing. So there are a number of clocks here. Not to give time for Hamas to decide whether it's going to release hostages. As delighted as we were that Judith and Natalie Raanan were reunited with their family, we understand what Hamas is doing.

It's trying to release hostages in sort of a drip, drip way in order to drive a wedge between Israel and its democratic allies, particularly with the United States of America, to get calls for a cease-fire, to negotiate more time. What does that mean? A cease-fire? A cease-fire means Hamas wins. Cease-fire means Hamas gets away with massacring, torturing, burning, raping 1500 of our citizens, firing thousands of thousands of rockets at our neighborhoods including this neighborhood, and gets away with it.

That's what a cease-fire means. And what it means essentially is that Hamas is not holding hostages just in Gaza. Hamas is holding all of us hostage. And we can't let that happen.

ACOSTA: And what is your sense as to what the Israeli Defense Forces are doing? There were some expectations, a lot of expectations really, that this ground incursion was going to begin maybe even a week ago. And I'm just curious why you think that that might have been delayed or pushed off a little bit.

[16:05:04]

Did it had something to do with the president's trip? He was making a lot of diplomatic appeals. He's really inserted himself into this crisis. What are your thoughts on that?

OREN: Again, my -- I'm not a spokesman for the government. I will tell you that my feeling was they delayed it for the president's visit. They delayed because of Antony Blinken, secretary of State, visit. They may have delayed it also because of the hospital incident and clarifying that Israel was not responsible for the death that occurred in the parking lot of that hospital.

There are many factors that went into it, but again, our clocks are ticking, and those clocks are you can't keep 360,000 basically young people, who's the most productive part of our economy, mobilized indefinitely. Moral issues, they're ready to go. As for the actual fighting, unfortunately, I fought in Gaza several times, and it's a nightmare, Jim. It's not like you see in a movie. It's alleyways and cul-de-sacs that are heavily mined and wired.

And then the major fighting is not above ground, it's below the ground, where Hamas has dug countless miles of tunnels and bunkers, all of them mined, all of them boobytrapped. And Israel is going to have to fight like below the ground as well.

ACOSTA: And I know you don't speak on behalf of the Israeli government, so let me ask this question, and that is, what do you think of the wisdom of sending in a large-scale ground contingent in to conduct this incursion? Do you think that that is the right approach?

OREN: Well, certainly wiser than sending in a small contingent. This is a major ground operation. You want to do it with sufficient forces. I think we've learned -- remember we went in on the ground in 2014, it was a very costly operation. We didn't go deep into Gaza. We only went like a mile or two. This is actually going to go into the heart of Gaza City and root out Hamas.

And I think Israel has learned -- the Israeli Defense Forces have learned to proceed cautiously with advances being preceded by artillery, by very strong intelligence to find out where the enemy is. And parallel to this will be unceasing efforts to locate those hostages and try to rescue them. And the big challenge there is locating them. We've had hostages in Gaza for years now, for years. And we haven't been able to locate them. Extremely difficult.

So all that is going to be proceeding so I don't think this is going to be a lightning strike. I think it's going to be a very cautious strike, moving, say, alley by alley, tunnel by tunnel, bunker by bunker, and you're going to get some really tough challenges because Hamas puts its major headquarters under hospitals. It puts its headquarters under schools. So you can imagine what a tremendous moral challenge that is, not just a military challenge. We're going to be grappling with all of that in the coming days.

ACOSTA: And what unintended consequences do the Israelis need to be worried about at this point? Might you somehow trigger a response from Hezbollah? Might this spill over in ways that perhaps you didn't imagine? I mean, you know, you're talking to an American audience here, and obviously there are folks here in the United States who remember, and you remember all too well, Ambassador, what took place after the United States went into Iraq, went into Afghanistan. They ended up being very lengthy and costly commitments.

OREN: Yes, just a personal note, back in 2003 I was merely a historian and not an ambassador. I was called to testify in Congress about the impending invasion, and I said, invade, then get out, don't get involved in state-making. So hopefully Israel won't get involved in state making in Gaza as well. We actually have a plan for the morning after. I think that's what President Biden wanted to hear.

And I hope it involves some kind of inter-hour effort, maybe other Palestinian elements there, in order to create a stable government that can really enable Gaza to reach its potential because there's amazing potential there. It's very fertile ground.

One of the unlikely or the wild card situations, yes, Hezbollah could enter and we're poised and ready for that. My expectations is that Hezbollah will come in at a point where the Israeli army is deeply engaged in Gaza, perhaps tired from fighting for a week or two, and then Hezbollah could strike.

We already now have these missiles fired at us from Yemen, by the Houthi rebels, who are backed by Iran and the United States have the USS Carney intercepted those missiles, and we're very, very grateful for that. But that's just the opening shot -- salvo. There are pro- Iranian militias in Western Iraq that would fire missiles at us. It's Iran itself that can fire missiles at us. They've been ready for every single contingency.

But the wild card, right now, really, scares very much because I've had a lot of personal experience, it's the -- you're fighting in a densely populated area. Most of the civilians have moved away. But all you need is one tank shell or one artillery shell to hit a building and cause a great number of casualties, and that can change the course of a conflict. This has happened several times.

It happened in our 2006 Lebanon war. It happened in an operation in 1996 called "Grapes of Wrath" against Hezbollah in Lebanon.

[16:10:03]

One shell changed the whole course of the war. You're up against the law of average results.

ACOSTA: Yes, and that leads me to this question is, what are the prospects of the Israelis and the Palestinians to get back to the negotiating table, back to the bargaining table? Or has -- and I guess perhaps this gets to the question of the mindset inside Israel right now because when I talk to folks about this, you know, they will say, Israelis will say, you know, you folks in the United States, you just don't understand the way we feel right now, how we feel deep down in our bones about this, and why we feel like we need to -- that this time is different. Does -- is that perhaps standing in the way of getting back to the bargaining table to some extent?

OREN: Let me express it as a hope. One thing is certain. Right now Israelis are saying, and the vast majorities are saying, look, there is a Palestinian Authority in the West Bank, it's headed by a gentleman named Mahmoud Abbas who's in the 18th year of his four-year term. He will not stand for re-election because he know Hamas is going to win in Judea, Samaria and the West Bank.

And what if we had a Hamas state there and not just in Gaza, our entire state would be in danger of being wiped out. I'm actually sitting in southern Tel Aviv, I look out my window and I see that area, it's how close it is here.

ACOSTA: Right. OREN: I wouldn't be in rocket range, I'd be in (INAUDIBLE). So I

understand that. They're saying -- most Israelis are saying, we can't risk this right now. But I would express a hope that the elimination of Hamas, which has always been one of the major obstacles to war -- I've been in involved in the peace process going back to 1993. I was an advisory to the Yitzhak Rabin government, during the Oslo process.

We tried to make peace with the PLO, with the Palestinian Authority, and Hamas not only blew us up but they also killed Palestinians. Hamas doesn't want a two-state solution. They don't want peace it all. They will blow it up. So the elimination of Hamas will remove an obstacle. And so being an optimist, you know, personally, I hope that when Hamas is removed as that obstacle, we can begin to think about some type of reconciliation.

ACOSTA: All right, Ambassador Michael Oren, thank you so much for those insights. Really appreciate it.

OREN: Thank you. Good evening.

ACOSTA: All right. And to you, as well.

And will have more on the war in Israel ahead but we're also following the drama up on Capitol Hill. There's been a lot of it. There isn't much the House can do right now until there is a speaker, and they certainly don't have one at this point. We'll talk about the prospects for that, coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:16:30]

ACOSTA: Breaking news to tell you about out of Detroit. A Detroit synagogue says its president has died after police say a woman was found with multiple stab wounds outside of her home this morning. We're still piecing together what exactly has taken place, but CNN's Polo Sandoval joins us now with more.

Polo, we know it's early, but tell us what we know right now.

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There's a lot that we don't know. What we do know, though, is the Detroit community is certainly in mourning after they learned of the death of the president of the board of the downtown synagogue there in Detroit. The synagogue identifying their president as Samantha Woll. Separately, Detroit Police confirming the death of an individual.

Initially, officers were called out to that person's home earlier this morning and found an unresponsive individual, according to Detroit Police, lying on the ground. Emergency medical personnel later declared that individual dead. While at that scene police officers noticed a trail of blood that was leading to the victims' home which they believe is where the stabbing took place.

But, again separately, what you have now, is the downtown synagogue in Detroit confirming the death of the president of their board, Samantha Woll. Already some widespread reaction that we're getting in from elected officials, including Representative Elise Slotkin, who took to social media, saying that Woll actually at one point worked for her, was on her staff. The representative writing that Woll did for her team as deputy district director what came so naturally to Woll.

That representative writing that she often helped others and served constituents separately in politics and in the Jewish community. She dedicated her short life to building an understanding across faiths, bringing light into the face of darkness. That again a statement that was released by Representative Elise Slotkin about Samantha Woll. Still so many questions, of course, the most important one is a possible motive in Woll's death.

Homicide investigators in Detroit are on the case right now. They say they don't plan on hosting any sort of press conferences any time soon. However, we are still pressing them for more information to try to learn more about the death of this individual, the president of the board of the downtown synagogue in Detroit -- Jim.

ACOSTA: All right. Polo Sandoval, we'll stay on top of it. Thanks so much.

The World Health Organization says hospitals in Gaza have reached a, quote, "breaking point." The first convoy of trucks entered into Gaza this morning, carrying vital aid, including trauma medicines and emergency relief supplies, life-saving health supplies, but a Palestinian official say that's not enough.

And joining me now to talk about this is spokesperson for the Palestine Red Crescent Society, Nebal Farsakh.

Nebal, thank you very much for being with us. We know your organization is working to make sure these supplies reach the right recipients. What can you tell us about this delivery this morning? And I guess the other pressing question is when will more supply, aid relief come in?

NEBAL FARSAKH, SPOKESPERSON, PALESTINE RED CRESCENT SOCIETY: Thanks for having me. So the Palestine Red Crescent today has received about 20 trucks from the Egyptian Red Crescent, which has water, food and medical supplies and medicine. The Palestine Red Crescent teams along with UNRWA were unable to unload the trucks in Gaza Strip, which was moved to UNRWA warehouses.

[16:20:02]

Tomorrow UNRWA will start distributing the aid based on the last that was received from the Egyptian Red Crescent. There is some aid for the WHO, WFP along for the Palestine Red Crescent. Hopefully tomorrow will star the distribution process to deliver the aid to the most needy areas in Gaza, basically one of the most needy areas is just hospitals, where hospitals now are lacking everything, facing a great shortage in medicine and medical supplies.

It's worth mentioning that this first shipment of the humanitarian aid does not include fuel. All the fuel is extremely needed to continue the operation of hospitals. As we all know, all hospitals in Gaza are now running out of fuel, which is needed to have the electricity. Without having the fuel into Gaza, that means that death of thousands of Palestinian civilians who are patients injured in the hospitals.

Also, all ambulances will stop running -- stop being able to provide their emergency medical services, along with bakeries, who also need electricity. They're going to stop having bread. It's going to be absolutely a humanitarian catastrophic.

ACOSTA: And Nebal, do you know -- can you confirm that these trucks have reached the right recipients, the intended recipients of this aid? And --

FARSAKH: Yes.

ACOSTA: What can you tell us about more trucks coming in?

FARSAKH: Yes, as I said, the trucks now are at UNRWA warehouses. Tomorrow we'll start the distribution process. UNRWA will handle the distribution to give the aid to where it should go, according to a list that was received from the Egyptian Red Crescent. As far as, like, the situation is just this kind of aid is just a drop. Just a drop in the ocean because there is a huge need in Gaza.

Whether we're talking about two million Palestinian civilians who are in need for food and water, because they don't have food and water, or also talking about hospitals, all hospitals in Gaza, not only one, are lacking medicine and medical supplies, as well as fuel, so hopefully in the upcoming days much aid will be allowed to get in into Gaza, especially we're talking about dozens of trucks are still waiting at the Rafah Crossing Border, still waiting to get the approval to be in.

We call on the international community to continue advocating, to ensure the continuity of aid into Gaza. This process should not be hindered. Also, not only from the Rafah Crossing Border, but through all the crossing borders, even controlled from the Israeli occupation forces, because according to the international law, it is the responsibility of Israel as an occupying power to ensure, to fulfill the basic humanitarian need of civilians in Gaza, along with medical supplies and medicines that is urgently needed to the continuity of work of hospitals.

ACOSTA: Yes, and -- but, Nebal, we talked to a spokesperson for the Israeli Defense Forces earlier on in this program, and he indicated that the IDF is not really thrilled with the idea of allowing more of these trucks in because they fear that these supplies will be delivered to the hands of Hamas. Can you verify whether or not that is the case? How do you know?

FARSAKH: I just said it's their responsibility to ensure the entry of the trucks from the borders, that is controlled by the Israeli occupation forces, to allow the entry of trucks because it's the responsibility of the occupying power to ensure the basic needs of civilians, even during conflict times. This is according to the international law. According to what's happened today, as I just highlighted, all the aid is now at UNRWA warehouses. We all know that UNRWA, it should be accredited organization along

with the Palestine Red Crescent, to be part of the international movement of the Red Cross and Red Crescent. We believe in humanity and neutrality and impartiality. And our goal is just to ensure providing the people in Gaza with the basic humanitarian needs so we will continue providing our humanitarian aid, trying to alleviate the suffering of Palestinians. As I just said what was allowed to get in is only a drop in the ocean.

[16:25:03]

We still count on the international community to continue advocating for the entry of aid, without any restrictions or any -- without any restrictions because simply the situation doesn't handle anymore delay. The situation is just catastrophic.

Now hospitals are witnessing a collapse status due to running out of fuel, as well as medical supplies and medicine. Besides more than two million people who are without food and water, one million Palestinians have been internally displaced and now are just sheltering either in schools or even at hospital, without having any basic needs.

ACOSTA: Yes.

FARSAKH: It just is crucial for the international community to take a step for humanity and try to fulfill the needs of Palestinian civilians as well as hospitals.

ACOSTA: All right.

FARSAKH: Hospitals and medical facilities, and personnel should not be a target for Israeli occupation forces, whether targeting the hospital immediately by bombarded the hospitals, or even denying the access of medical supplies.

ACOSTA: All right, Nebal --

FARSAKH: Our hospital now, Al Quds Hospital, is still under the threat of being bombed at any moment because of the evacuation --

ACOSTA: Nebal, I don't know if you can hear me. Nebal Farsakh --

FARSAKH: -- from the Israeli Occupation Forces.

ACOSTA: Thank you very much for your time. We appreciate it, Nebal Farsakh. And we should note, you did say something about Israeli bombardment of hospitals. There was that hospital blast that occurred this past week. It has been determined by the Israeli forces and the United States, as well as other international officials that that was the result of an errant rocket strike that came from inside Gaza, as you know, but, all right, Nebal Farsakh, thank you very much for your time.

FARSAKH: I just said it's our hospital. Al Quds Hospital. It's now under the threat of being bombed. ACOSTA: No, I understand that.

FARSAKH: We have received a warning from Israeli occupation forces yesterday. They called us threatening -- and demanding immediate evacuation because Al Quds Hospital will be bombarded.

ACOSTA: Nebal Farsakh, thank you very much for your time. Thank you.

FARSAKH: That's not only the case with our hospital, along with 24 hospitals.

ACOSTA: OK. We just have to make sure that we're passing on accurate information.

Nebal Farsakh, thank you very much for your time. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:31:28]

ACOSTA: It's back to the drawing board for House Republicans as they continue their struggle to elect a new speaker of the House.

On Friday, Republican lawmakers voted to pull the plug on Jim Jordan's speaker run after he lost in a third round of voting, setting the stage for new candidates to emerge.

Joining us now to discuss is Republican Congressman Tim Burchett of Tennessee. He's one of eight lawmakers who voted to oust Kevin McCarthy as the speaker.

Congressman, great to see you. Thank you for doing this.

Where do we go from here? Where does the House go from here?

We saw the House majority whip, Tom Emmer, announce he's running for speaker. Congressman Mike Johnson of Louisiana declared he is running.

Do you have someone you are supporting at this point?

REP. TIM BURCHETT (R-TN): Well, if I did, Jim, it would probably tank them, being that I'm one of the eight. I'm probably not one of the more popular people in Congress right now.

So, I would -- I think I'll just keep that between me and those people that I support.

ACOSTA: Well, to that point, the former speaker, Kevin McCarthy, is calling you and the other seven Republicans out for what's happening right now.

Let's listen to this. Hopefully, you can hear it. We'll talk to you about it on the other side.

BURCHETT: Sure.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): The Crazy Eights led by Gaetz, the amount of damage they have done to this party and this country is insurmountable.

We're in a very bad position as a party, one that has won the majority, one that America has entrusted us with, that a simple eight people have put us in this place.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Congressman, he's calling you the Crazy Eights.

BURCHETT: Well, I've been called worse.

The trouble is, is that we followed the rules, the rules that Kevin McCarthy voted on, that were voted on unanimously by our conference. And we followed them to a "T."

And if they didn't like those rules, they shouldn't have put them in place.

But the truth of the matter is, you know, our former leadership just kept us going down the road. You know, we ran up a trillion dollars in debt in three months.

We took off the whole month of August, two weeks into September, knowing that September 30th was the end of our fiscal year.

And I appreciate his speech writers and their clever writings, but that doesn't serve us very well. And also, under his leadership, we would have been off the last week anyway.

And then after we came through that almost shutdown of our government, you know, we came back, and what did we do? We rushed to the floor on that Monday and named two post offices.

So you know --

ACOSTA: Well, do you think -- you're going to need a speaker sooner or later. Do you think you would have had one by now if perhaps somebody was able to emerge that you could get behind?

Or is this one of those situations --

BURCHETT: Yes, I --

ACOSTA: -- where this is going to take -- this is going to take a while?

BURCHETT: Sure, I supported everyone. I supported Scalise and I supported Jim Jordan, as well. And you know, we just didn't get there.

We've got a deep bench. We're going to be OK.

We'll have a couple more weeks of work on this budget situation, the continued resolution, which is what they always seem to pass.

But, yes, I think we're going to be OK. I don't -- I'm not getting too worked up about it. We --

(CROSSTALK)

ACOSTA: You don't think it's a bad look that the House of Representatives for the United States government doesn't have a speaker of the House?

BURCHETT: Yes, of course, I do. But it's the situation we're in.

It doesn't negate the fact that we just kept running up that debt. And we're going to crush our whole system if we don't get control of that debt.

We're paying a trillion dollars a year just in interest alone to China. And under what model does it work out where you take in $4.6 trillion and spend $7 trillion? You know?

[16:35:04]

It's what we do every year. And yet, we just -- enough is enough. We've got to take the fiscal bull by the horns and that --

(CROSSTALK)

ACOSTA: Yes, but Congressman, one of the things that got in the way of Jim Jordan is that there were some brass knuckles tactics being employed in that there were members of Congress being threatened, spouses of members of Congress being threatened to support Jim Jordan, or else.

And I'm just wondering --

BURCHETT: Right.

ACOSTA: -- what you thought of that? And do you know who was behind that? What was going on with that?

BURCHETT: No, I don't. And if it was -- well, we're probably a semi- family show, but I would have taken that into my own hand hands.

You know, I've lived with death threats, sexual violence threats against members of my family, and Capitol Hill police, they told me they didn't consider it a real threat.

You know, so, I've lived with that. I've spent $30,000 on home security on our farm. You can't -- you can't put your foot or your boot on my farm without me having a picture of you, or something.

Because -- there's a picture of eight or nine people in my office that are back in the mail room, and if they were to show up, we're supposed to call the U.S. Marshals, because they are considered to be dangerous.

So -- that have made threats against us --

(CROSSTALK)

ACOSTA: Do you think that backfired on Jordan to some extent? Because it sounds as though the threats really cropped up when he was the one that was for speaker.

And so I --

BURCHETT: Yes.

ACOSTA: -- I wonder if that is something that perhaps members there might want to rethink? And do you think we're going to see more of that?

(CROSSTALK)

BURCHETT: It didn't help. But I don't think Jim orchestrated it.

Because if you look at the -- there were three groups against Jim

You had the appropriators. And as you know, on Capitol Hill, there's three parties. There's Republicans, Democrats, and appropriators. And they didn't like the fact that Jim had talked about passing a budget, of all things, which we're required to do by law.

Because when you do the continued resolutions, you know as well as I do, Jim, all that does is it passes the budget that we had before, and you add on all the other lobbyists and special interest groups two degrees.

And then you have a freshman group, primarily those out of New York and very purple districts.

And then you had folks that, for lack of a better term are called War Hawks because they support the American military and they support every war we're in and every war we're about to get in.

So, those are actually the three groups that were against --

(CROSSTALK)

ACOSTA: Well --

BURCHETT: -- on the threats.

ACOSTA: What about the Patrick McHenry idea? Giving the current speaker pro tem, Patrick McHenry, more power?

That way, you can get things potentially accomplished between now at the end of the year to prevent a government shutdown, get aid to Israel, those sorts of things?

You can't really do anything right now.

BURCHETT: Yes, sir. ACOSTA: Congress is paralyzed.

BURCHETT: Yes, sir. Well, we don't know constitutionally if that's legal or not.

And also, it pushes -- we just won't ever get a speaker, if we do that. It will be just like passing a budget. We'll have a speaker- lite, so to speak.

I don't like bow ties, but I like Patrick McHenry. He wears a bow tie. He's not comfortable in that role, either. Just because of the constitutional suspect nature of that.

So -- I think what we better do is just hold our feet to the fire. We should have not gone home. We were championing and yelling for staying there to finish our business, which is what we should do.

And I think that would send a clear message to America that we mean business and we're trying to get this thing wrapped up. And we will.

As far as Israel goes, you know, the president has that $100 billion aid package, and only $10 billion, 10 percent of it goes to Israel, oddly enough. The majority of it goes to Ukraine, I believe.

And honestly, we haven't even seen that. The Senate hasn't seen that.

(CROSSTALK)

ACOSTA: We'll double check those numbers.

(CROSSTALK)

ACOSTA: But -- I think that there is a need to get that aid passed, is there not? Are you saying that you're opposed to that? At a moment like this?

BURCHETT: No, sir. I'm not opposed to the aid to Israel. I'm opposed to any more aid to Ukraine. And the president's making it a political issue by tying those two things or three things together.

And he made a very specific point --

(CROSSTALK)

ACOSTA: Doesn't he have a cause to, or -- an inclination to do that sort of thing when we don't even have a speaker of the House.

There's no speaker of the House right now, so one might think he'd have to bundle some things together or else you might not get anything passed.

BURCHETT: No. No.

ACOSTA: Given the current state of affairs?

BURCHETT: That was -- no, that's what they proposed before. It would be two simple bills, Jim. All they would have to do is send two bills over. Both would pass.

And then it would -- and then -- (AUDIO PROBLEM)

ACOSTA: Oh.

BURCHETT: And, you know, he sent hundreds of millions of dollars to Ukraine without congressional approval.

[16:39:58]

He's already sent the largest carrier group in the world there. We've got 12 ships going to the Med. We've got -- we send them $3.6 billion a year on auto check. Their guns, their armaments are stacked.

(CROSSTALK)

BURCHETT: And the last thing that Israel needs, any more interference of the United States of America. Let them fight this war. They know how to fight those wars.

And our wars -- our rules of engagement would hamper them, I do believe, as well. So --

(CROSSTALK)

BURCHETT: -- I think they're going to be fine.

We're going to get back to work. We're going to elect a speaker and we're going to take care of Israel.

ACOSTA: All right, Congressman Burchett, thanks very much for your time. We appreciate it. We'll follow up on some of those points at another time.

BURCHETT: Go Vols.

ACOSTA: Thanks for your time. Thanks a lot.

A live report from Israel straight ahead. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ACOSTA: Sidney Powell, who once vowed to "release the kraken" to help Donald Trump by pushing unsubstantiated claims of election fraud, has flipped on the former president.

Here's what she said after the 2020 election.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNEY POWELL, FORMER TRUMP ATTORNEY: We are not going to be intimidated. We are not going to back down. We are going to clean this mess up now.

[16:45:05] President Trump won by a landslide. We are going to prove it. And we are going to reclaim the United States of America for the people who vote for freedom.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: But this week, Sidney Powell did back down. The former Trump attorney struck a different tone, pleading guilty to taking part in a conspiracy to interfere with the election to keep Trump in power.

And yesterday, another Trump attorney, Kenneth Chesebro, pleaded guilty in the case.

As part of their plea deals, both Powell and Chesebro agreed to testify truthfully in future trials against their co-defendants, which include former President Donald Trump.

Let's bring in defense attorney, Shan Wu, a former federal prosecutor.

Shan, how shocked were you when the Sidney Powell news came down and then Kenneth Chesebro one day later?

SHAN WU, DEFENSE ATTORNEY & FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: More shocked with Chesebro, Jim. Powell, it sort of seemed like the pressure was really mounting on her.

Chesebro is a little bit of a surprise, that quick turnaround. He seemed, I don't know, seemed like -- I'm not sure what he was doing but bowing to, in terms of the pressure.

I think, interestingly, these are significant victories for the prosecution.

I'm not quite sure the term "flipping" fully applies to them. Theoretically, it does. They have to give truthful testimony.

These don't look like the traditional full cooperation agreements, especially when you hear some of the comments from the lawyers afterwards.

I think they're going to try to do what I call the Weisselberg Walk. That's the CFO in the New York case where he pleads guilty and then he tries to avoid being charged with perjury.

But he still walks a very tight line, trying not to incriminate folks like Trump. And I think we're going to see that happen with both of these defendants.

ACOSTA: That's fascinating.

And so, Shan, if that happens what do prosecutors, and what does the judge do, frankly?

WU: If it's done skillfully, from a defense counsel standpoint, the prosecutors can try to say, hey, you're not cooperating, you're perjuring yourself, which is always hard because since people can claim "I don't remember."

If they want to argue that he or she has breached the agreement, the plea agreement to testify truthfully, they'll have to bring a motion and it will be the subject of litigation within that case.

So, the immediate remedy really isn't there. And they may be counting on that to avoid having to really fully flip in the sense that we think of that as happening.

ACOSTA: And so, we should not be jumping to conclusions here that Sidney Powell is going to spill the beans on what was going on behind closed doors in the Oval Office, Shan?

Because that is a very interesting perspective you're bringing up. A lot of folks thought, OK, the kraken has cracked, we're going to get all this information at the trials.

And you're saying that might not be the case.

WU: I think so. She certainly had to admit guilt. And some beans definitely have been spilled already. They had to make proffers.

I would just sort of manage expectations a little bit about just how fully a spilling of the beans she's going to make.

ACOSTA: And do you think these were sweetheart deals for Powell and Chesebro? I mean, they kind of got away with a slap on the wrist here.

But I suppose if you are Sidney Powell and you're facing the prospect of hundreds of thousands of dollars of legal bills and so on, and possibly going to prison, this looks pretty good.

I can't imagine that Fani Willis would offer this kind of a deal without the expectation that she's going to get something in return.

WU: I agree. I think they are very good deals for them, even though they're far less than what they're charged with. It's still a burden on anyone to take that hit in terms of the conviction.

And for the prosecutors, this is a very significant victory. I mean, they're whistling down these defendants, who were, at one point, were so adamant with denying any culpability.

And they are beginning to whittle them down. And whatever truthful testimony they do give is going to be helpful for their case. So it's unquestionably a big victory for the prosecutors.

ACOSTA: And do you think this is sort of, like, a mob or mafia case, where you get the little guy to flip to help get the big guy up the food chain? Is that potentially what we might see here?

Might we see others flip? There was some talk of perhaps Rudy Giuliani might do something like this, but then they, all of a sudden, started raising money for his legal bills.

WU: Yes, I don't think the traditional mafia model really works here. Those are people much lower down in the food chain.

I do think we might see other people cut deals, even Giuliani. But I would caution against the idea that they're going to completely just give up Donald Trump.

I think they're going to be fighting to not do that while still trying to protect themselves.

ACOSTA: Yes. You raise an interesting question. And that is whether we're going to see more games being played. And that potentially could delay things, which, of course, plays right into the Trump playbook.

Shan, as always, very interesting insights. Thanks a lot.

[16:49:42]

We'll be right back.

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ACOSTA: An IDF spokesperson says, while Israel's top priority is getting its hostages back, Israeli troops are amassing on the southern border with Gaza and a potential ground invasion looks increasingly imminent.

CNN's Brian Todd has more on this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Meeting with soldiers in recent days, Israel's defense minister said, quote, "Gaza will never return to what it was" -- an ominous signal of what's to come when Israel launches its expected ground invasion of Gaza.

MAJ. JOHN SPENCER, U.S. ARMY, RETIRED & AUTHOR: One of the biggest forces in the world who's prepared for -- to enter a contested environment like this is the IDF.

But of course, there's no bloodless war. They'll take a lot of casualties, and I think they know that.

TODD: With more than 300,000 soldiers and reservists getting ready for combat, military analysts expect the Israelis to launch the invasion on multiple fronts.

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: This is Gaza City. And what we can expect is for the Israeli forces to most likely go in this way and this way.

Probably, the preponderance of force will be in this direction into Gaza city.

(GUNFIRE)

[16:55:59]

TODD: Inside Gaza, experts say, this will be urban combat, possibly even tougher than what was seen in this footage from Israeli's 2014 invasion of Gaza, block to block, building to building, and vicious.

The Israelis facing an enemy that knows every corner.

SPENCER: Many challenges that the defenders had time to prepare. And no matter what, you have to move forward and basically wait until a defender shoots you.

LEIGHTON: Look how narrow this alleyway is. Look how the soldier has to point up to see if there are any fighters above him. In these areas, it's a perfect place for these fighters to be situated for them to rain down fire.

(SHOUTING)

TODD: Often caught in the crossfire, Palestinian civilians. Experts say Hamas does not shy away from using civilians as human shields in a combat environment.

GEN. WESLEY CLARK, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Hamas wanted all those people to stay. It has blown up, put in barricades, it's destroyed transit areas and other things in an effort to fix them in place.

TODD: To ambush these rallies, analysts say Hamas will use sophisticated IEDs, snipers hidden on upper floors of buildings.

Another Hamas asset the Israelis will have to navigate, hundreds of miles of tunnels, known as the Gaza Metro.

HAREL CHOREV, TEL AVIV UNIVERSITY: With the command and control and communication rooms and supply rooms, and it appears, for launching rockets.

TODD: And there's the added complication of the hostages Hamas is holding. While two hostages have just been released, there are likely up to 200 more still inside Gaza. Many of whom, analysts say, could be held in the tunnels.

(on camera): Does that mean they will go into the tunnels, the Israelis, to try to get them? Or is it just too dangerous?

LEIGHTON: It's very dangerous. But in certain circumstances, the Israelis will probably feel the need to go into these tunnels.

TODD (voice-over): And the dangers don't end even in the areas the Israelis will have secured.

Former CIA Director David Petraeus told CNN that in the areas of Gaza that they captured, the Israelis will then have to conduct counter- insurgency operations, because Hamas and its allies will try to come back.

Brian Todd, CNN, Washington. (END VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA: Up next, we'll talk to a father whose son is one of the many being held hostage right now. That man is pleading for his release, because of the life-saving medication his son needs. That's next.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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