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CNN International: Gaza Death Toll Rises as Humanitarian Crisis Deepens; Israeli Prime Minister Warns Ground Offensive Into Gaza is Coming; Israeli Woman Describes Raid and Abduction by Hamas Gunmen; Hamas Used Landlines to Avoid Detection and Plan Attack; Republicans Name New U.S. House Speaker Nominee. Aired 4-4:30a ET
Aired October 25, 2023 - 04:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[04:00:00]
BIANCA NOBILO, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and a warm welcome to our viewers joining us in the United States and all around the world. I'm Bianca Nobilo.
MAX FOSTER, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Max Foster joining you live from London with our continuing coverage of Israel at War. It's 11 a.m. in Gaza, where overnight strikes are being reported as Israel's Prime Minister warns the next stage of the war, the ground offensive is coming.
NOBILO: Those comments come amid concerns over the hostages and the humanitarian crisis in Gaza, where the death toll keeps rising. The head of nursing at one Gaza Hospital says 22 people were killed and dozens injured in these latest strikes, which have come in response to the deadly terror attacks by Hamas on October the 7th.
FOSTER: UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres has drawn backlash from Israeli diplomats after appealing for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire. And saying the appalling acts of Hamas don't justify the collective punishment of the Palestinian people.
NOBILO: Inside Gaza, the situation grows more dire by the day. On Tuesday, only eight of the 20 aid trucks scheduled to enter Gaza made it through the Rafah crossing on the Egyptian border. One of the biggest concerns right now, a lack of fuel. The World Health Organization says six hospitals in Gaza have already been forced to close.
FOSTER: CNN's Salma Abdelaziz has more on the deepening humanitarian crisis in Gaza and a warning her story contains graphic images.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Moments after an overnight strike in Gaza, stunned survivors stumble out. People nearby rush to help.
"There is no ambulance, we have to get people, out" a man shouts.
Men dig with bare hands. It is dark, dusty. The screams are jarring. "Look at the children, look at the children," he says.
It is sheer chaos and carnage. This is the aftermath of just one of the hundreds of bombings a day that batter the Gaza Strip, the scene captured by a journalist. Israel says it is targeting Hamas and aims to wipe out the group. But Palestinians and aid agencies say it is civilians that are dying by the hundreds.
Drone footage shows entire neighborhoods already leveled by the near constant bombardment. Nothing is spared -- schools, mosques, shelters, medical centers, all struck, according to the United Nations. Gaza is all too familiar with war but has never seen it on this scale. And for survivors, there is little life left here. Baby Sana Halabi (ph) is now an orphan. But he is far too young to understand that.
"What did this little boy do? An airstrike hit his house while he was sleeping," his uncle says. "His whole family was killed. He's the only survivor. Stop this. Stop this suffering."
There are calls for Israel to pause hostilities but the IDF is only ramping up its attacks and preparing for what is expected to be a full-on ground invasion of the enclave. But Gazans say they can endure no more.
Amar Al Batah says nearly 50 members of his extended family were killed after they followed Israel's evacuation instructions.
"We were hosting our family from the north, 50 to 70 people, because it was supposed to be safe," he says. "But at dawn, our home was bombed. We don't know what to do. We have lost our minds."
Gaza is praying for relief. But the cries of anguish here are so far unheard, the bloodshed won't stop.
Salma Abdelaziz, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: Elliott is with us now to go through some of that. I mean, there's so many themes running through, but today the big concern seems to be fuel running out potentially by the end of the day, meaning hospitals will have to closed down.
ELLIOT GOTKINE, JOURNALIST: Yes, so at least six hospitals have already had to close down in the Gaza Strip, and there are concerns, certainly from the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestinian Refugees and well wishers looking after the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip and elsewhere for what, you know, for decades.
[04:05:00]
It is saying that if it doesn't get fuel that it will not be able to continue its operations from this evening. And we've also got people like the World Health Organization warning that there are 1,000 patients on dialysis, 130 premature babies who are now at risk of medical complications or deaths. So really saying that that fuel isn't just fuel, it is life effectively. But yes, OK, water -- some water, some medicines and some food is getting into the Gaza Strip, clearly not enough. But fuel is something that's needed to, whether it's to help desalinate water or to keep the lights on in hospitals or to carry out operations.
Now the -- Israel has been saying from the beginning, we are not going to let fuel in because it will simply be stolen by Hamas. It will be used to fire rockets, to maintain its network of tunnels underground and to support Hamas in its ongoing war with Israel.
And indeed, the IDF went so far as to post a satellite image of fuel tanks inside the Gaza Strip, which it says contain half a million liters of fuel. Saying this is Hamas's fuel if you want -- if you need fuel, ask Hamas for it. And then saying also that the hospitals have access to solar power, solar electricity and that, you know, it wouldn't be -- they wouldn't be able to look Israelis in the eye at the same time as giving fuel to -- allowing fuel into the Gaza Strip because it would be used by Hamas. So that's the Israeli stance. And at the moment there is no fuel going in, so that's the situation, right now.
NOBILO: The international political battle for hearts and minds over this is in full force. We've had this spat now between Antonio Guterres, the UN Secretary-General and Israel, which has demanded his resignation for comments they call shocking about what led up to the massacre on October the 7th.
GOTKINE: Very much so. Look, Israel has repeatedly clashed with the United Nations over the years. And there are certain bodies which clearly do not have, let's say, an objective eye, such as the United Nations Human Rights Council.
But in this particular occasion Antonio Guterres, the UN Secretary- General, has come out and he has recognized the savagery of the massacre perpetrated by Hamas on October the 7th, and he called for humanitarian ceasefire. But the words that have irked the Israelis the most is when he said that this attack by Hamas did not happen in a vacuum and saying that it comes after 56 years of, in his words, suffocating occupation by Israel. Those are the words that have really got the backs of the Israelis up. And as you say, we've heard from Gilad Erdan, the envoy to the United Nations from Israel, saying that Guterres, the United -- the UN Secretary-General, should resign immediately, saying he's not fit to lead the organization and accusing him of tolerating terrorism.
NOBILO: And that the chief objection would be the fact that they see the UN as drawing a connecting line between Israeli policy and the terror attacks that unfolded.
GOTKINE: I think the anger and real anger on the part of the Israelis here and Eli Cohen, the Israeli Foreign Minister, refused to meet with the UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres, even though he was there.
What's really angered them is what seems to be not a justification, but just almost a pretext, if you like, for Hamas's attacks. Trying to almost try to understand the reasons for this attack and Israel's point being, there is no excuse to go on the rampage and murder 1,400 civilians and kidnap 220 plus people and keep them hostage in the Gaza Strip.
FOSTER: Just quickly, I mean the way you pulled out the Human Rights Council there just to sort of explain that. Israel's long had an issue because the Rights Council, because of the people who sit in on it, often point to Israel's human rights when Israel feels they should also be looking at other nations.
GOTKINE: Very much so, and I suppose ultimately the United Nations reflects the balance of its members and certainly in certain bodies, when you have certain countries, let's say, whose human rights record are not sparkling. Making the decisions regarding human rights or whether it's Israel or other nations. That's why Israel in particular doesn't always feel that it's getting a fair hearing at the United Nations.
FOSTER: Elliot, thank you so much.
NOBILO: Israel's ambassador to the UN says Gaza will not have, quote, a moment of quiet until all the hostages held by Hamas are brought home. In recent days, Hamas released four women, two American and two Israeli, and we're now hearing more details from one of those hostages about her ordeal in Gaza, where she says Hamas gunmen took her underground into a vast network of tunnels.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
YOCHEVED LIFSHITZ, HOSTAGE RELEASED BY HAMAS (through translator): It was a hell I could not have known.
NOBILO (voice-over): An 85-year-old grandmother, one of the two Israeli hostages released by Hamas Monday night, expressed anger towards her government for not taking the Hamas threat seriously in the weeks leading up to the horror of October the 7th.
[04:10:00]
LIFSHITZ (through translator): The lack of awareness by Shin Bet and the IDF hurt us a lot. They were warned three weeks beforehand. They burnt fields, they sent fire balloons and the IDF did not treat it seriously.
NOBILO (voice-over): Safely reunited with her daughter, Yocheved Lifshitz detailed the horror that unfolded in her home in southern Israel.
LIFSHITZ (through translator): All of a sudden on a Saturday morning, everything was very quiet. There was a hard pounding on the settlement. I was kidnapped on a motorbike on my side while they were driving towards Gaza in the field.
NOBILO (voice-over): The ensuing two weeks, she was held hostage in Hamas's secretive network of underground tunnels. Upon her release, her testimony of the traumatic ordeal, extraordinary, from horror to displace of humanity from her captors. LIFSHITZ (through translator): When we got there, they told us they believed in the Quran and would not harm us, and that they would give us the same conditions that they had inside the tunnels. For each of us, there was a guard, they took care of every detail. There were a lot of women and they knew about feminine hygiene, and they took care of everything there.
NOBILO (voice-over): She was released alongside her female neighbor, but her husband remains held in Gaza. Her freedom, a relief for Yocheved's daughter and a glimmer of hope for the families whose loved ones remain as hostages under Hamas.
Her experience now, a potentially critical insight into Hamas's spider web of tunnels and the behaviors, planning and objectives of a group which shocked the world with their capabilities, preparedness and brutality on October the 7th.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: Well, we're learning more about how Hamas militants use those tunnels to plan and execute their terror attack on Israel without alerting Israeli officials.
NOBILO (on camera): It involves old school counterintelligence measures, yesterday's technologies and even above ground training. Pamela Brown has the details.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PAMELA BROWN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Well, sources are telling CNN that a small group of Hamas operatives used hardwired phones in the tunnels beneath Gaza to communicate over a period of two years. That's according to intelligence shared with U.S. officials. Those old-fashioned landlines allowed Hamas leaders to communicate with one another in secret. They avoided using computers or cell phones in order to keep from being tracked by Israeli or U.S. intelligence, according to the sources. Instead, they held meetings in person among a small group and stayed off all digital communications we're told.
Now this partially explains why Israel and the U.S. were so caught off guard by the attack and how 1,000 Hamas fighters were able to pour across the border without being stopped. As we have seen in the propaganda video released by Hamas. All of this communication, we're told, happened in the miles of underground tunnel system that is beneath Gaza, that the IDF nicknamed the Gaza Metro.
Another way Hamas was able to keep this under the radar is that they kept the planning of the October 7th attack a secret even from other members. Only a very small group knew about the mission until just before it was carried out. Hamas ground unit commanders and fighters were in training for many months and kept in a state of general preparedness, but only found out about the specific plans just a few days before the terrorist attack. And one of the sources said, some of the training above ground was observed but didn't ring major alarm bells. The thinking was, oh, Hamas always trains people like this. It didn't look different.
And we also know that Israel had found hardwired phones in Hamas strongholds in the past. In fact, the Israeli military found this similar kind of communication system when they raided a city in the northern West Bank over the summer. That's according to an Israeli official. They called it a Joint Operational Command Center, and they had hardwired communication lines and closed-circuit surveillance cameras to give advance warning of Israeli troop movements.
Pamela Brown, CNN Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NOBILO: Let's talk about this with Ronni Shaked, researcher at the Harry S. Truman Research Institute for the Advancement of Peace, and he joins us now live from Jerusalem. Thank you very much for joining us this morning, Sir. Let's begin by discussing, as somebody who has researched and studied Hamas for decades, you've literally written a book on them as well -- "Hamas, the Islamic Movement." Were you surprised at the planning and the capability of what unfolded on October the 7th?
RONNI SHAKED, RESEARCHER, HARRY S. TRUMAN RESEARCH INSTITUTE FOR ADVANCEMENT OF PEACE: No, I was not surprised at all because during the last 10 years I'm making the researches on Gaza, and especially on the youth. And I saw that in Gaza, Hamas is preparing the war in two ways. In one way it was the indoctrination of young people from all over Gaza especially -- I'm talking from kindergarten till universities -- take them to unofficial what it's called education system and take them in the -- during the holidays or the vacation, they were taking them to a camp where they were training to use not just to use the weapon, but to use the emotion with the -- with the weapon.
[04:15:04]
It's really in the full -- full indoctrination.
And on the other side, Hamas succeed it because Gaza was to change. All the young generation of Gaza today are people who are -- support Hamas or part of Hamas because of their education and what it's called in Arabic, the dala.
On the other hand, Hamas was prepared since 2008 for a big war with Israel, with Iran, with Afghanistan, with Indonesia -- with the help of Indonesia, with help of Qatar, with help of many other Arab fundamentalistic other groups. And they prepared Gaza. What they were doing. First of all, they built about 200 -- 150 or 200 -- let's say about 80 or 100 miles of tunnels under Gaza.
And in these tunnels, they have everything. They put all the missiles down. They put all the factories where they are producing the weapons there. They were putting all the headquarters down -- is down in deep, deep in the land and therefore we can't know, we can't see them. We can't know who they are. So they had weapon and all kind of weapon, including drones that
nobody was thinking that they are going to use them. And now together they -- the dala, the education, or the indoctrination that they got all those young people together with the weapon and a lot, a lot of weapon, together with mistakes from Israel. And I'm not ashamed to say, mistakes from Israel make them a strong power that can make a big, big surprise to us on the on the Black Saturday, what we call in Israel.
And I was surprised by the mass of the people, but not by the way that they were fighting, the cruel way of the that they were fighting, and with the full emotion of hatred and revenge that they were fighting, and they were good, good fighter some places. I think that during all the years we didn't pay attention to this, that they are training, training, training.
FOSTER: We're just --
SHAKED: And we have to understand.
FOSTER: So that's what happened on October the 7th. Now the situation is that Hamas needs to respond to releasing the hostages, and that's a very complex process, isn't it? Because we have a political leadership based in Qatar. We have a military leadership based in Gaza. Who runs Hamas? Is that Qatari relationship as strong as everyone assumes it is? Or is the military leadership running things on its own effectively from Gaza?
SHAKED: Look what's happening in Gaza it's -- I'm very sorry. It's a war and we are in a war and we are doing all the efforts to fight against Hamas and not to fight the civil society. The hostages is the first -- first and for all for the Israeli society now. And we are asking to release all those people. And we can do something. We can do something together with our friends in the Arab countries, especially with Egypt. And I'm sorry to say with Qatar. Because Qatar is playing here a big, big part in in all this play of the Middle East and the play with, with Hamas. Qatar is Hamas. Hamas is Qatar and together we can perhaps do something. And the situation, I don't know when it's going to change because Israel took and look back then, look and look for a for a target that's called to eliminate Hamas. I don't think that we can eliminate Hamas. Because you have to remember Hamas is a political social national and then terrorist and terrorist and terrorist group, wherever you are going to find two-three Palestinians, one of them going to be Hamas. Even in the United States, in Chicago, in Denver or other places. I'm not talking about Europe. I'm not talking about the Arab state. So it's ideology.
FOSTER: Bianca obviously wants to ask another question, but need to sort of pull you up on, you know, saying Qatar is Hamas, Hamas is Qatar. Because you know, Qatar's also a major base for American military. It's also recognized by countries around the world independently of Hamas, so I don't think it's as simple as that.
NOBILO: No, but I mean, there's several things I'd like to sort of clarify. I think some of the statements that you're making obviously about the, the affinity between Palestinians broadly and Hamas are put in terms that we haven't really heard before.
[04:20:00]
Certainly, the strength of them. And let us know why you're so certain that in terms of the Palestinian population at large, there is such strength of them and let us know why you're so certain that in terms of the Palestinian population at large, there is such sympathy for Hamas. And related to that, the fact that Israel has stated as its objective to smash and eradicate Hamas, surely what's happening now in the retaliatory air strikes are likely to fuel further radicalization and indoctrination now.
SHAKED: Now you have to understand, Hamas is also a national Palestinian movement, and she -- they have a lot, a lot of supporters in the West Bank, in Jordan, in other places because they are fighting against Israel. I'm sorry to say that with all the Palestinian -- Palestinian ethos, the fight against Israel is part of the ethos of the Palestinians. Not just now, I'm talking 100 years ago and more than it now. There are some countries that they help them. I know that Iran it's not a question. Iran is the big enemy to Israel and Iran is Shia not Sunni Islam -- Islamic. And they are giving all the help to -- all the help to Hamas, including training and including sending weapons, sending a lot of money.
Qatar, that's the big problem. Because Qatar is playing in the Middle East like a big country, a big power. It's a state that has a television and with the television they control all the Arab, all the Arab world. It's the richest emirate in the in the Persian Gulf, just the population is 2.6 million, but just 300,000 citizens. All the others, our workers from outside, and Qatar wants to play the all the game all over the Middle East and it became to be power because of the money. And look at 2017, there was a boycott of Egypt or Saudi Arabia, plus Bahrain, the emirate against again against Qatar. But Israel continue to have a relationship with Qatar and allow them to bring money to Gaza -- to Gaza Strip. Because in order to keep them silent.
FOSTER: Well, I OK. Ronni, thank you so much for your time. I mean, Qatar's not here to give their point of view. And there's a lot of other countries and analysts who give a completely different view of Qatar. But I understand there is a huge tension between Qatar and Israel because they do host the political wing of Hamas. But as I say, they also got the biggest U.S. base in the region as well, and they have deep relationships with other countries.
NOBILO: Hence why they're able to play such a key role as a mediator right now.
FOSTER: And also lots of countries have TV stations.
Still to come, Republicans picked their fourth nominee for U.S. House Speaker with a key vote by the full chamber just hours away.
NOBILO: Plus, new prosecution deals could mean trouble for former U.S. President Donald Trump. Details after the break.
[04:25:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
FOSTER: Representative Mike Johnson is now the latest Republican nominee in the carousel of candidates for U.S. House Speaker.
NOBILO: His nomination is set for a full House vote today, with still no guarantee that he can win the job more than three weeks after the historic ouster of former Speaker Kevin McCarthy. CNN's Manu Raju has the latest from the capital.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: House Republicans say they are ready to end weeks of bickering, internal feuding and the first ever ouster of the sitting speaker that has left the chamber paralyzed for the past three weeks. They say they are ready to put that to an end in the aftermath of Congressman Mike Johnson, the Louisiana Republican who was nominated as the speaker designate. Someone who needs actually the vote of the full House. 217 votes in order to be elected on Wednesday at noon. He plans to take it to the floor.
Then this coming after three other nominees saw their bids collapse, including one Congressman Tom Emmer, just earlier in the afternoon, just a couple of hours after he won his party's nomination, faced a fierce backlash on the right, and then decided it was time for him to drop out because he had no path to the speakership.
Well, Mike Johnson then won the nomination himself. The fourth time a nominee has come forward in the aftermath of Kevin McCarthy's ouster. There was some concern inside the room. There were roughly 44 members who voted for other candidates, someone who is not Mike Johnson or any of the other declared candidates.
Ultimately, though, some of those came to his side when it came to one of the final votes to decide whether or not they would back him on the floor. There were -- 22 members were missing from that vote, and there were also three members who voted present. And Mike Johnson on the floor on Wednesday can only afford to lose four Republican votes. So he has some work to go. But still there is confidence in the ranks and that after all this in fighting that even though the members who flatly opposed pushing out Kevin McCarthy, even they say it's time to put this to an end and back Mike Johnson to the speakership.
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): Democracy is messy sometimes, but it is our system. This conference that you see, this House Republican majority is united.
RAJU: But even if Mike Johnson wins this vote on Wednesday, there are such huge issues confronting the next speaker. And they'll have to not just put back the pieces together but start to put together a strategy that is essentially in shambles. A legislative strategy and an agenda that has been completely derailed by this infighting. And some of the key issues on the table, how to deal with aid to Israel? How to deal with aid to Ukraine? The White House and Senate Republican leaders want to tie that issue together. How will they deal with that in the House where there's been resistance to the idea of tying Ukraine aid to Israel aid.
And also avoiding a government shutdown by mid November. Something that could cause a huge fight within the ranks as well. So, so many questions for Congressman Johnson. If he does win the speakership, major issues await him. And could he run into the same problems that Kevin McCarthy did that ended his speakership? That's also a huge question for his future as the House tries to move past this ugly period.
Manu Raju, CNN, Capitol Hill.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
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