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Police Identify "Person of Interest" in Maine Shootings; Crisis Worsens in Gaza as Fuel, Food, Water Run Low; Israel Doubles Down in Diplomatic Spat with U.N. Aired 1:20-2a ET

Aired October 26, 2023 - 01:20   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back international viewers. I'm John Vause at the CNN Center in Atlanta with our ongoing coverage of Israel's war with Hamas. We'll have that in a moment.

But first, an update on our breaking news from Lewiston, Maine. Local police have now identified Robert Card as a person of interest in the shooting deaths late Wednesday of at least 22 people at two different locations. Card is described as a certified firearms instructor with the U.S. Army Reserve and is considered armed and dangerous. His whereabouts are currently unknown.

Local residents have been urged to stay indoors with those doors locked. Thousands of people have also reported - being injured in these shootings and has left these small communities stunned and in disbelief. As soon as we get new developments, we'll bring them to you.

To your primetime national address, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has made his first explicit reference to a ground invasion of Gaza. He gave no details about timing but added the decision of when to begin the offensive would be made by him, his war cabinet and the Israel Defense Forces.

Netanyahu promised a crushing victory over Hamas, declaring all Hamas fighters to be dead men walking above ground, below ground, and outside Gaza. And already he says, thousands of terrorists have been eliminated. He made no mention of growing international concern over the civilian death toll in Gaza but says Israel is recruiting the support of world leaders because Hamas is ISIS, and ISIS is Hamas. And for the first time since the deadly Hamas attack on October 7th, Prime Minister Netanyahu spoke about his own role in the security breakdown which failed to prevent the worst terror tack in Israeli history.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, PRIME MINISTER OF ISRAEL (through translator): Citizens of Israel, the 7th of October is a dark day in our history. We will fully clarify what happened on the southern border and in the area adjacent to the Gaza Strip. This failure will be investigated thoroughly. Everyone will need to provide answers, myself included, but all of this will happen only after the war.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: In Gaza, the main U.N. agency working with Palestinian refugees says a critical shortage of fuel will force all operations to shut down within hours. Limited humanitarian assistance has been arriving in Gaza since the weekend. But Israeli officials have refused to allow shipments of fuel over fears it will be seized by Hamas and used for firing rockets and missiles into Israel. But without fuel for trucks, the U.N. says, there is no way to distribute supplies of food, water, as well as medicine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAMARA ALRIFAI, SPOKESPERSON, U.N. RELIEF AND WORKS AGENCY: We are talking about over 600,000 people in our shelters and our school, that who expect to receive clean drinking water from our water desalination plant, who expect to receive bread that is baked in bakeries, all of these need fuel to be able to operate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: But the Israeli military says there is more than enough fuel in Gaza. But all of it controlled by Hamas and being used as part of its war effort. The end result though is the same. Without fuel for generators, there is no electricity to pump clean water, no electricity for hospitals already at breaking point and fuel simply for cooking bread, adding new misery to desperation for millions of Palestinians.

More now from CNN's Salma Abdelaziz but first a warning, some viewers will find her -- the images in her report disturbing.

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SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Aid is slowly trickling into Gaza, but in U.N. camps, families desperate for food and water say they're getting bars of soap.

This so-called aid provides nothing. We are dying a slow death, this man says. You don't hear the people screams at night when they fight over a piece of bread. There's not even water to drink.

[01:25:07]

So far, the total amount of aid delivered is less than 1 percent of what the enclave would receive on a daily basis prior to this conflict. And a crucial lifeline is missing, fuel. Without it, UNRWA, the main U.N. agency on the ground, says it will be forced to halt operations.

The international community is begging for help.

DR. RICK BRENNAN, W.H.O. REGIONAL EMERGENCIES DIRECTOR, EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN REGION: We are appealing, we are pleading, we are on our knees asking for that sustained, scaled up, protected humanitarian operation.

ABDELAZIZ: Israel's reply, ask Hamas for fuel.

REAR ADMIRAL DANIEL HAGARI, CHIEF ISRAELI MILITARY SPOKESPERSON (through translator): Fuel will not enter the Gaza Strip. Hamas use the petrol for its military infrastructure. Fuel Hamas stole from UNRWA should be taken back from Hamas and given to the hospitals.

ABDELAZIZ: UNRWA previously denied the claims of fuel-looting. And as Israel intensifies its bombardment of Gaza with more than 200 hostages still being held by Hamas, the fuel shortage is already costing lives, doctors warned.

At least six hospitals have shut down due to a lack of fuel and hundreds of patients from premature babies to the many wounded in ICU are at risk.

If the hospital is not provided with the necessary fuel for the generators, we are issuing a death sentence, this doctor says. The execution is in the hands of the free world. Everyone is guilty.

Water pumps will soon stop working, too, making it even more difficult to get clean drinking water. Bakeries are closing, aid deliveries are more difficult, and more than 2 million people, half of them children, already under bombardment and under siege could face starvation. The clock is ticking.

Salma Abdelaziz, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: U.N. secretary-general says he was left stunned by calls for his resignation by Israeli officials who are outraged by his remarks at the Security Council meeting on Tuesday. Antonio Guterres described the Hamas attacks as appalling but then added, they did not happen in a vacuum and came after 56 years of suffocating occupation of the Palestinians. Wednesday, he said, he wanted to set the records straight.

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ANTONIO GUTERRES, SECRETARY-GENERAL, UNITED NATIONS: I am shocked by the misrepresentations by some of my statement yesterday in the Security Council, as if -- as if I was justifying acts of terror by Hamas. This is false, it was the opposite.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Live now, to London and Scott McLean joins us now. So, Scott, you know, the Israel and the U.N. have often had a tense relationship in the past. Israel often accusing the U.N. of bias. The claim made by Guterres is not the first time that's been made. It's been made by other officials as well, but it just seems to have provoked this reaction among the Israelis which has now escalated way beyond calling for Guterres to resign. SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and none of this helps the current situation. Maybe perhaps this encapsulates the relationship between the United Nations and Israel. The fact that Antonio Guterres, the secretary-general of the United Nations has not spoken with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu since this conflict kicked off.

You obviously have the U.N. in Gaza desperately calling for Israel to allow fuel into -- into Gaza so far with no luck. Despite that saying that it's going to run out of fuel within a number of hours for -- for its operation. You also have the U.N. Security Council unable to reach any kind of a resolution, calling for a humanitarian pause or a cease- fire or anything like that in Gaza right now.

And that's where Antonio Guterres had made these comments at the U.N. Security Council meeting. He said that it was plain that there were -- violations of international law taking place in Gaza. He was critical of Israel for forcing people to evacuate the northern part of Gaza to the south where they continue to bomb by the way. But I'll just remind our viewers -- the specific comments that set off or that sparked this controversy. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUTERRES: It is important to also recognize the attacks by Hamas did not happen in a vacuum. The Palestinian people have been subjected to 56 years of suffocating occupation.

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MCLEAN: He also made clear that the grievances of the Palestinian people, in his words, cannot justify the appalling attacks by Hamas. That was not good enough for the Israelis though.

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The Israeli foreign minister asked, you know, what world do you live in to Guterres. He said that he would not meet with him. Then we heard from the Israeli ambassador to the United Nations who said that Israel is not going to give visas to U.N. officials.

And despite the Secretary General in the clip that you played there, trying to sort of clarify his words, it didn't seem to help with the ambassador calling it a disgrace that he did not apologize and saying this. Quote, "He clearly said yesterday that the massacre by Hamas did not happen in a vacuum. Every person understands very well that the meaning of his words is that Israel has guilt for the actions of Hamas, or at the very least, it shows his understanding for the background leading up to the massacre that Hamas perpetuated -- or perpetrated, excuse me."

But John, you mentioned it already. Look, there has been a long history of Israel accusing the U.N. of bias. And if you look at, at least, the resolutions passed by the U.N. Human Rights Council perhaps they have a bit of a point. You will find without fail a steady study stream of resolution on Israel and the Palestinians calling for justice. For the Palestinians you will not find the same steady stream of resolutions about other notorious human rights abuses around the world -- Chinese, Saudis, the list goes on. But Israel is always in their list of resolutions, John.

VAUSE: Scott, thank you. Scott McLean, live for us in London.

We'll take a short break. When we come back, the very latest on the mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine with dozens dead; many more have been wounded. The gunman still at large almost six hours after the shootings were first reported.

Back in a moment.

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VAUSE: Welcome back.

We're following breaking news of two mass shootings in Lewiston, Maine. At least 22 people were killed in a bar and a bowling alley. Up to 60 people injured according to police.

A manhunt is underway for a person of interest, 40-year-old Robert Card. He's described as a certified firearms instructor and a member of the U.S. Army Reserves.

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COMM MIKE SAUSCHUCK, MAINE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY: Police are currently searching for a Robert R. Card, 4/4 of 1983 of Bovill (ph).

Card is considered armed and dangerous. He is a person of interest however and that is what we will label him at moving forward, until that changes.

If people see him, they should not approach Card or make contact with him in any way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Police released this photo from the scene of one of the shootings. They're urging residents to stay inside with doors locked. Also to report any suspicious activity.

Joining us now from Dallas is Chris Grollnek, an active shooter expert. Chris, thank you for being with us.

So Chris, there are a million possibilities right now of what could actually happen next. But from what you know of active shooters, what you sort of know of their profile. Any idea what he could be thinking, what he may be doing or planning to do to avoid being caught? What are the possibilities here? How dangerous is this guy? CHRIS GROLLNECK, ACTIVE SHOOTER EXPERT: Great question and thank you

very much. Number one, I think that it would be disingenuous to say there's a profile. There still is -- after 25 years of having these, we still don't have a profile of what a traditional active shooter is or who they are.

They range from age from 7 to 9 (ph) to all the way to 83 years old. And their weapons of choice change, or locations. It's usually somebody that share common traits of being misunderstood, bullied, tired of society, of grievance, workplace, family violence -- all sorts of things that can grow into these things.

What makes this one unique is traditionally, active shooters end in three ways. The person commits suicide, the person is captured or shot at the scene, or they run out of bullets and give up or you know, the third way obviously being shot by the police and another bystander.

There are ways at the end. These do not go on like this and traditionally they don't go from one location to another. This is a unique active shooter by all stretch of the imagination where they have wherewithal and physical capability to where if you and I are driving down the street and we almost get in a collision, that adrenaline rush that was going through our body, would make our muscles almost freeze and our bodies freeze. That's when we won't be able to do anything.

This person not only took the lives of all the people at the bowling alley but had the wherewithal to get in the vehicle and drive to another location, repeat it. We know he drove to another location, we don't know if he shot there, that's just in dispute there (ph). And then he drove about what 50 miles away where they found the car abandoned.

So everything that we know of commonalities between active shooters is not demonstrated in this other than the lethality. And we're seeing it get worse because of that.

VAUSE: The border with Canada is about three-hours' drive from Lewiston.

GROLLNEK: Right.

VAUSE: It's been about six hours since the first reports of the shooting came in. That's plenty of time to get there. Are you saying that he is likely to make a run for the border or as you say these active shooters tend to hunker down in areas that they know and don't -- do they leave that state? Is he likely to leave the state?

GROLLNEK: After a killing spree like this it would be difficult for me to make that determination or even judgment calls with the limited information that I do have. I'm not on the ground and I haven't talked to anybody there.

So it would be disingenuous for me to give you a certified answer or a clarification. However, I would put nothing past this person. And you know, it will Interesting to read the manifesto that he no doubt has. You do not plan a massacre like this, willing to take the lives of so

many without a calculated decision planning about how he's going to go up to and including his escape.

But as a colleague of mine pointed out. It's very cold up where he is. And if they have him narrowed down to where he drove in the (INAUDIBLE), 50 miles. And I believe it's the other direction from the border, so it might be towards another town.

I believe that state police are cording off other areas, within the surrounding areas and they'll be on the lookout for that.

It's so cold up there that there's some night vision, some flare that could, you know, keep (INAUDIBLE) technology and helicopter that they can use. And I'm not going to say more than that so he doesn't defeat it.

But I have high confidence that he'll be caught by morning because then you end up into a whole new series of events, how long he keeps this town on lockdown.

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VAUSE: Yes, 40,000 people or so and I will go outside right now. Schools are canceled. Businesses are closed.

Chris Grollnek, thank you so much for being with us. We appreciate your time.

GROLLNEK: Thank you, John. I appreciate you very much.

VAUSE: We will take a short break. When we come back, Israel says it stopped a seaborne raid by a team of Hamas divers. But U.S. military officials say the attack could be a cautionary tale ahead of Israel's expected ground offensive in Gaza.

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VAUSE: Updating our breaking news from southern Maine in the United States. At least 22 people are dead in multiple mass shootings in the city of Lewiston.

Police identified a person of interest, 40-year-old Robert Card, a certified firearms instructor and member of the U.S. Army Reserves.

The shooting took place Wednesday night, first at a bowling alley then a restaurant. The gunman was armed with a high-powered assault style rifle. As many as 60 people have been wounded but It's unclear if all the injuries were because of gunfire.

The Israeli military says it stopped an attempt by Hamas divers to infiltrate Israel by sea on Tuesday.

But as CNN's Jim Sciutto, the attacks could be a red flag ahead of Israel's expected ground offensive in Gaza.

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JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF U.S. SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: On Tuesday, a Hamas terrorist team attempting to enter Israel from Gaza by sea. In IDF video which CNN cannot independently verify, Israeli naval forces seen intercepting the divers, gunning them down on the beach and in the water.

It is not the first time Hamas has attempted to enter Israel by sea. During the October 7the attacks Hamas divers carried out another raid and made it inside Israeli territory before they were intercepted by the Israeli Navy.

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SCIUTTO: Hamas' seaborne attacks demonstrate the continuing depth and breadth of Hamas military capabilities even in the midst of devastating Israeli airstrikes on Gaza. Hamas has now attacked by sea, land and air.

On October 7th aerial drones disabled surveillance equipment along the Gaza border. And fighters air dropped into Israel in motorized paragliders. Fighters breached border walls and sped into southern Israel on motorcycles and in armed SUVs. Hamas dive teams form a formidable third front.

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: This force is one that is a combination of a terrorist force as well as it has some attributes of a conventional military.

And what is particularly interesting about it is the fact that they were to integrate land, air and sea components into their efforts.

SCIUTTO: Hamas has honed these capabilities with intense training. Hamas videos showed training exercises on mockups of military bases much like those they stormed October 7th to deadly effect.

As Israel plans a possible ground offensive inside Gaza, the concern among U.S. military officials is that Hamas will again demonstrate such military capabilities against Israeli forces in dangerous urban warfare.

Gaza is a densely populated urban area. And Hamas has constructed a complex network of tunnels rigged with explosives.

LEIGHTON: It is very clear that (INAUDIBLE) if Hamas can mount a coordinated combined force attack against Israel, they can also mount a combined defensive operation. And that combined defensive operation is going to be, I think extremely significant.

SCIUTTO: And that appears to be part of the message being communicated by U.S. military officials to Israeli military officials as they prepare for a possible ground offensive inside Gaza.

And it's notable that the U.S. has sent a Marine general who's a veteran of U.S. military operations in Fallujah in Iraq in the 2000s. A bloody campaign for U.S. forces and a lot of similarities between Fallujah and what Israeli forces can expect in Gaza.

One difference was forces in Fallujah have months to prepare, Hamas has had many years to prepare.

Jim Sciutto, CNN -- Tel Aviv.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: Still to come here on CNN, Israeli troops are said to be ready with military plans for a Gaza invasion approved. The offensive seems to be on hold but the U.S. President says it's not his fault.

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VAUSE: Back now to the breaking news from the U.S. state of Maine. Police have identified a person of interest in two mass shootings Wednesday night in the city of Lewiston. They're searching for Robert Card. He's considered armed and dangerous.

Law enforcement officials say he's a certified firearms instructor and a member of the U.S. Army Reserves. At least 22 people were killed at a restaurant and a bowling alley. Another 50 maybe 60 people were injured. Residents have been asked to shelter in place amid a manhunt for the shooter.

Meantime in Washington, U.S. President Joe Biden weighed in on Israel's war on Hamas. He noted Israel has a responsibility to respond to the attacks by Hamas but must balance it with protecting civilians.

The president says there's no going back to the status quo in the region and called for renewed efforts for a two-state solution.

Steven Cook is a senior fellow for Middle Eastern studies at the Council of Foreign Relations. He is with us this hour from Maryland. Good to see you.

STEVEN COOK, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: Good to see you.

VAUSE: So never before have Israeli forces killed so many civilians in Gaza. That is, if you believe the numbers released by the Hamas- controlled Palestinian ministry for health and the U.S. President Joe Biden does not.

Here he is.

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JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What they say to me is I have no notion that the Palestinians are telling the truth about how many are killed. I'm sure innocent (INAUDIBLE). But I have no confidence in the number that the Palestinians are using.

(END VIDEO CLIP) VAUSE: Those numbers have been considered reliable in the past and often being, you know, one of the major reasons behind international pressure on Israel to agree to a ceasefire or humanitarian pause.

So what are the implications now with the U.S. president saying the Palestinians are lying?

COOK: Well, I think in the past the numbers are the best numbers that anyone can come up with because it's so hard as you know to independently verify those killed or wounded during a war.

I do think that after the Al-Ahli hospital incident in which Hamas immediately claimed that 500 have been killed by an Israeli airstrike, and subsequent evidence pointed to the fact that it was either an Islamic Jihad or Hamas rocket that had misfired and that probably half that number were killed lent credence at least to some of what President Biden is saying.

But of course it's important to acknowledge that there are many Palestinian civilians who are suffering and who have been killed in the Israeli airstrikes.

COOK: In many ways, this statement by Biden sort of moves the argument or his position rather much closer to the Israelis than to the Palestinian side.

COOK: That's exactly the case. And the president has not been shy about lining up as closely to the Israelis as he sees fit. It's perfectly consistent with President Biden world view of course, it will invite more condemnation of the United States and perhaps more protests in front of American embassies in the region and elsewhere.

Nevertheless, it seems to me that hugging Israel as closely as possible maybe part of President Biden's strategy in order to get them to slow down a ground invasion.

VAUSE: It's not just the numbers too but also the images of dead and wounded civilians in Gaza which has sparked a lot of outrage and anger across the region. Turkey's president accusing Israel of committing atrocities against civilians, now canceling a visit to Israel and very publicly siding with Hamas. Here he is.

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RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN, TURKISH PRESIDENT (through translator): Hamas is not a terrorist organization but a liberation movement group, a group of Mujahedeen that is fighting to protect its soil and citizens.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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VAUSE: And the longer this lasts, and the higher the civilian death toll in Gaza rises, at the very least the Israeli offensive starts looking or appearing to be a war on Palestinians as opposed to a military operation against Hamas. And so beyond the tragedy which is being effected in Gaza this has

very real implications for Israel as well. And they know it. This happens every single time.

COOK: It does happen every single time which is why perhaps the Israelis would like to move forward with ground operation as soon as they possibly can. But of course, they are fighting the information war themselves.

They did gather many journalists in Israel to show them some of the body cam footage and other footage from the Hamas attack on October 7th.

I should point out though that also when it comes to President Erdogan, he's long had a relationship with Hamas and has never considered Hamas to be a terrorist organization. The Justice Development Party which he leads has sort of a weird relationship with Hamas in which it sees itself in Hamas although the Justice Development Party has never really been a violent organization that has targeted civilians.

VAUSE: Erdogan though is hoping to play this role of mediator perhaps so similar to what he's been doing with Ukraine and Russia, hopefully between, you know, Hamas and Israel that he could sort of bring some kind of ceasefire or truce. Is that a mission to nowhere in some respects?

COOK: Well it seems unlikely that he'll be able to do it. The Israelis don't trust Erdogan on the Palestinian issue and of course, this coming weekend, he's going to lead a very large pro Hamas rally in Turkey. So it's unlikely that his mediation will be welcomed.

He's also feeling somewhat left out given all the attention to the Qataris who are seeking the release of Israeli hostages.

VAUSE: Steven Cook, good to have you with us. Thank you.

COOK: Great to be with the.

VAUSE: Thank you for being with us. I'm John Vause.

That's it for CNN NEWSROOM.

Lynda Kinkade takes over after a very short break. Our breaking news coverage of the state of Maine and also with Israel's war with Hamas continues in a moment.

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